Podcast Summary: "Buddhist Neuroscientist On: How To Quit Bad Habits And Why You’re Not Keeping Your Resolutions | Dr. Judson Brewer"

10% Happier with Dan Harris
Release Date: January 27, 2025
Host: Dan Harris
Guest: Dr. Judson Brewer, Director of Research and Innovation at the Mindfulness Center, Professor in Behavioral and Social Sciences and Psychiatry at Brown University, and author of several books including The Craving Mind, Unwinding Anxiety, and The Hunger Habit.

Introduction

In this insightful episode, host Dan Harris welcomes his frequent guest, Dr. Judson Brewer, for his sixth appearance on the show. The conversation delves deep into understanding addiction, habit formation, and effective strategies to break bad habits while fostering positive ones. Drawing from both scientific research and ancient Buddhist wisdom, Brewer provides a comprehensive framework for managing everyday addictions and achieving lasting behavior change.

Understanding Addiction: A Broader Perspective

Defining Addiction Beyond the Clinical Scope
Dr. Brewer begins by expanding the traditional definition of addiction. While addiction is often associated with severe dependencies like substance abuse, Brewer emphasizes that "we all have craving minds. We're all addicted to something. Our phones, shopping, food, wordle, whatever" (Dr. Brewer, 07:33). This broader perspective acknowledges that everyday behaviors can become addictive when they persist despite adverse consequences.

Continuum of Addictive Behaviors
Brewer explains that addiction exists on a continuum. "It's more of a continuum than a kind of an all or none quantal." (Dr. Brewer, 07:33) This means that everyone can relate to some form of addictive behavior, whether it's minor or more severe.

Scientific vs. Buddhist Perspectives on Addiction

Harmony Between Modern Science and Buddhist Psychology
When asked about the differences between scientific and Buddhist views on addiction, Dr. Brewer asserts, "I haven't found any differences or even discrepancies" (Dr. Brewer, 09:33). He highlights that Buddhist teachings align closely with contemporary scientific understanding. For instance, both perspectives recognize the role of craving in sustaining addictive behaviors.

Dependent Origination: A Causal Framework
Brewer introduces the Buddhist concept of dependent origination, explaining how craving leads to clinging, perpetuating a cycle of suffering. "Craving leads to clinging. Without craving, there is no clinging." (Dr. Brewer, 11:53) This causal chain illustrates how addictions are maintained and how breaking the cycle can lead to liberation from suffering.

Dependent Origination and Its Relevance to Addiction

Causal Nature of Experience
Dependant origination describes how specific mental processes lead to sustained addictive behaviors. Brewer mentions, "These 12 links actually go in a cycle that was described as samsara or endless wandering." (Dr. Brewer, 13:41) Understanding this cycle is crucial for identifying and disrupting addictive patterns.

Extinguishing the Fire of Craving
Drawing parallels to Nirvana, Brewer explains that by stopping the reinforcement of craving, the metaphorical fire of addiction can be extinguished. "When we stop adding that fuel to the fire, it eventually burns down." (Dr. Brewer, 11:53)

The Role of Dopamine in Habit Formation and Addiction

Dopamine: Motivation, Not Pleasure
A significant portion of the discussion centers on dopamine's role. Brewer emphatically states, "Dopamine is not a pleasure molecule. It is a motivation molecule." (Dr. Brewer, 29:21) Contrary to popular belief, dopamine is primarily involved in learning and motivation rather than directly causing feelings of pleasure.

Habituation and Habit Formation
Brewer explains how dopamine facilitates the transition from surprise to anticipation, leading to habitual behaviors. "Dopamine fires... but that firing quickly habituates... It shifts its firing to firing in anticipation of getting chocolate." (Dr. Brewer, 27:36) This process underscores how habits become ingrained over time through repeated reinforcement.

Critique of Dopamine Fasting

Dopamine Fasting as a Misconception
Addressing the fad of dopamine fasting, Brewer critiques its scientific validity. "Even if we could do that, even if we could dopamine fast, which you can't really do, it's not going to affect anything except make somebody miserable because they're depriving themselves of all these things that they were addicted to." (Dr. Brewer, 30:28) He argues that reducing addictive behaviors isn't about eliminating dopamine but about changing the relationship with cravings.

Reframing Mindfulness: Curiosity and Awareness

Moving Beyond Traditional Mindfulness
Brewer expresses disillusionment with the term "mindfulness," suggesting it can be confusing for many. Instead, he prefers using terms like curiosity and awareness which are more directly aligned with experiential understanding. "I've been using the term curiosity and just staying away from the word mindfulness and I haven't found that it loses anything." (Dr. Brewer, 49:02)

Two Types of Curiosity
Brewer distinguishes between deprivation curiosity and interest curiosity.

• Deprivation Curiosity: Driven by a lack of information, it compels action to reduce uncertainty. "Deprivation curiosity is destination-based... it's what drives us to seek information." (Dr. Brewer, 50:29)
• Interest Curiosity: Motivated by the joy of discovery without a specific endpoint. "The other type of curiosity is called interest curiosity, and it's basically just the joy of discovery." (Dr. Brewer, 54:00)

The Myth of Willpower in Habit Change

Limitations of Willpower
Brewer challenges the conventional reliance on willpower for behavior change. "Willpower is actually not even talked about in the neuroscience circles." (Dr. Brewer, 57:40) He argues that willpower is an ineffective and often unsustainable method for breaking habits, leading to feelings of guilt and shame when it fails.

Behavior Change Equations Exclude Willpower
Highlighting that scientific models of behavior change do not account for willpower, Brewer critiques the narrative that self-control alone can alter habits. "There is not a variable for willpower. It is a story that we tell ourselves." (Dr. Brewer, 57:40)

Types of Stress and Their Impact on Behavior

Physiological vs. Psychological Stress
Brewer categorizes stress into two types:

• Physiological Stress: The immediate fight-or-flight response triggered by clear threats. "It's the fight or flight reaction that's pretty helpful." (Dr. Brewer, 63:52)
• Psychological Stress: Chronic stress arising from self-imposed pressures and judgments. "Chronic stress, the psychological stress that comes at the behest of self, where we are getting caught up in our heads." (Dr. Brewer, 64:00)

Impact on Learning and Habit Change
Psychological stress narrows cognitive functions, making it difficult to adopt new behaviors. "Our organism is not set up to learn in those moments. We're closed." (Dr. Brewer, 67:11) In contrast, an open and curious mindset fosters learning and adaptation.

The Importance of Community in Habit Change

Community as Half of the Holy Life
Drawing from Buddhist teachings, Brewer underscores the vital role of community in overcoming addictions. "Community is half of the holy life... it is the whole of the holy life." (Dr. Brewer, 70:03)

Social Connection and Loneliness
Brewer references the growing body of research linking loneliness to adverse health outcomes. "Loneliness is the new smoking. So it's that bad." (Dr. Brewer, 72:00) Conversely, meaningful social connections enhance longevity and quality of life.

Community Support in Addiction Recovery
Highlighting Gabor Maté's work, Brewer explains how community and social support systems are critical for addiction recovery, backed by both human and animal studies. "Community is really critical for helping people overcome addiction." (Dr. Brewer, 73:10)

Debating the Concept of Healthy Anger

Challenging the Notion of Healthy Anger
Brewer contests the idea that anger can be "healthy," arguing that any form of anger leads to narrowed perception and increased suffering. "I haven't found an exception to this. It says, I'm not looking for new information. I'm going for it." (Dr. Brewer, 74:11)

Compassion vs. Anger in Response to Issues
He posits that compassion is a more effective and less destructive alternative to anger. "Compassion, which helps find the door," (Dr. Brewer, 77:54) contrasts with anger's tendency to blind us and perpetuate suffering.

Dr. Judson Brewer's New Initiative: MindShift

Introducing MindShift Recovery
Brewer shares his excitement about launching MindShift Recovery, a nonprofit aimed at reducing addictions through a combination of digital therapeutics, peer mentorship, and coaching. "We are building in mentorship, where we can think of it as people who start coming through the program who are super users... trained mentors." (Dr. Brewer, 78:14)

Comprehensive Support System
MindShift Recovery offers:

• Digital Therapeutics: Providing psychoeducational content tailored to addiction.
• Peer Mentorship: Trained mentors support others using a pay-it-forward model.
• Professional Coaching: Available on a sliding scale to accommodate various financial situations.

Accessibility and Community Integration
The initiative emphasizes making support accessible and fostering local community groups. "Eventually people can be leading groups in their own local communities." (Dr. Brewer, 78:14)

Conclusion

This episode of 10% Happier provides a nuanced exploration of addiction, blending scientific insights with Buddhist principles. Dr. Judson Brewer offers practical strategies for habit change, emphasizing curiosity, community support, and the limitations of willpower. His new nonprofit, MindShift Recovery, embodies these principles, aiming to create a supportive environment for individuals seeking to overcome addictions. Listeners are encouraged to embrace curiosity, foster compassionate self-talk, and engage with supportive communities to facilitate lasting behavior change.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Judson Brewer (07:33): "It's more of a continuum than a kind of an all or none quanta. Yes, I'm an addict or I'm an addicted person versus no, I'm not."

• Dr. Judson Brewer (09:33): "As far as I can tell, and this is a question that I've been studying, literally studying for over 20 years now, I haven't found any differences or even discrepancies."

• Dr. Judson Brewer (27:36): "Dopamine is not a pleasure molecule. It is a motivation molecule."

• Dr. Judson Brewer (49:02): "I've been using the term curiosity and just staying away from the word mindfulness and I haven't found that it loses anything."

• Dr. Judson Brewer (57:40): "There is not a variable for willpower. It is a story that we tell ourselves."

• Dr. Judson Brewer (70:03): "Community is half of the holy life... it is the whole of the holy life."

For more insights and resources discussed in this episode, visit MindShift Recovery and explore Dr. Judson Brewer's work on habit and addiction.