Feel Your Feelings, Drop the Story | Sebene Selassie

Summary

Podcast Summary: 10% Happier with Dan Harris Episode: Feel Your Feelings, Drop the Story | Sebene Selassie
Date: April 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around practical ways to work with difficult emotions—especially shame and rumination—within meditation and daily life. Host Dan Harris and guest Sebene Selassie, a renowned meditation teacher and author, explore approaches for feeling emotions without clinging to their stories, discuss Buddhist and contemporary practices for embodiment, and answer listener questions from a live Q&A. The conversation mixes actionable meditation guidance, humor, and direct responses to the challenges practitioners face (including, memorably, a tangent about colonoscopy prep).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Challenges with Breath Meditation (03:30–09:33)

• Common Difficulties:
  Listeners describe finding breath meditation unnatural, noting that focusing on the breath sometimes causes restriction or feels manipulated.

• Sebene’s Response:

  • Alternatives Are Valid:
    “There’s nothing saying that you have to do breath meditation… If someone’s been practicing for decades and it’s going well and breath is not a part of it, that’s fine, really.” (04:22)
  • Breath as a Technical and Emotional Process:
    Many people are uncomfortable watching their breath due to shallow or mouth breathing. Breathwork (like pranayama) or lying down can help.
    “I’m a big proselytizer for lying down meditation… it’s easier to be with the breath often when we’re lying down, because we’re just generally more relaxed.” (06:43)
  • Breath Is Not About Achievement:
    “It’s not like you get brownie points for being with the breath or the nostrils or in the lungs… we’re just being with the breath, however we can be with the breath.” (07:22)
  • Relaxation as the Goal:
    “Awakening is just a deepening process of relaxation… it’s actually the ease and the relaxation.” (08:31)

• Dan’s Interjection:
  “One way to think about enlightenment is lightening up.” (08:55)

• Listener Tips:

  • Nose waxing can unexpectedly improve the breath experience (Mike).
  • If breath is challenging, focus on the heartbeat (Mary Lou). (09:05–09:32)

2. Working with Shame in Meditation (09:39–12:56)

• Navigating Shame:

  • Understanding Shame vs. Guilt:
    “Guilt is I did something wrong. Shame is I am wrong… shame has this tinge of like, I’m not supposed to make mistakes, I’m fundamentally bad. I haven’t heard anyone give me an argument that it’s useful.” (10:13)
  • Practical Approach:
    If shame arises as rumination, return to your chosen meditation object.
    “We hike the trail that we got on. We don’t start going off trail and getting lost in the woods…” (10:56)
  • If Shame Is Overwhelming:
    Use body-based practices like RAIN so the emotion dissipates naturally:
    “If the shame comes on hot… you can work with it in the body with RAIN or other practices.” (11:30)

• Explaining RAIN:

  • Recognize, Allow, Investigate, Nurture:
    “It’s a great acronym… what’s happening right now, can I allow it, and then going in a little bit deeper… when we’re able to.” (12:00)
  • Difference between ‘Nurture’ and ‘Non-Identification’:
    “It was originally non-identification… sometimes it’s not helpful because it can get us in our head. Nurture is just a way to make space for whatever is here.” (12:56)

• Dan’s Tips:

  • Shift from “I am feeling shame” to “There is shame.”
  • Use passive voice: “To shame is being known.” (13:30)

3. Addressing Rumination and Regret (14:23–15:53)

• Key Quote:
  “Feel your feelings, drop the story.” — Pema Chödrön (14:23)

• Sebene on Embodiment:
  For those prone to rumination, returning attention to the body cuts through storytelling.
  “Let yourself feel that feeling… but let go of the stories. You don’t need to pick them apart. You just come back to the body as this present moment.” (14:56)

  • The “first foundation of the body” in mindfulness is a recurring, essential practice for grounding.

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4. Coping with Difficult Physical Experiences (Colonoscopy Prep & Medical Anxiety) (15:53–19:38)

• Andrea’s Question:
  Struggling to meditate due to anxiety about colonoscopy prep.

• Sebene’s Response:

  • Self-Kindness Over Perfection:
    “We’re getting pain and suffering wrong too, because we think we have to be mindful with it and somehow at ease. And it’s like, no, you can cry if it sucks.” (17:22)
  • Practical Self Care:
    Take steps (physical or medication-wise) to ease discomfort if possible.
  • Mindfulness of Experience:
    “Are we really with the experience or are you just, like, pushing it away?”
  • **“Can I be with it?” is not a yes/no, it’s a dare.” (18:37)

• Dan’s Perspective:
  Wry humor about the drugs given during colonoscopy:
  “I woke up… and I heard myself saying… ‘These drugs are amazing.’ And the nurse didn’t even turn around and she said, that’s the third time you’re telling me.” (19:40)

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5. The Elements Practice: Getting Out of Your Head, Into Your Body (20:16–26:39)

• Introduction and Love for Elements Practice:
  “It's one of my favorites … Elements in some form exist in every culture, on every continent… as a metaphor for relating to the inside and outside of the physical world, which is one in the absolute sense. There’s no separation.” (20:40)

• The Four Elements in Buddhist Practice:

  • Earth: Solidity, structure, weight
  • Water: Fluidity, cohesion, moisture
  • Fire: Temperature (hot/cold)
  • Air: Movement, breath, wind

• How To Use Them:

  • In formal meditation: sequential guidance through sensing each element in the body
  • In daily life: Noting sensations in terms of elements (e.g., cold air = fire, feet on ground = earth)
  • “The table I’m sitting at is the earth element… Heating water is the fire element, and your tea is the water element.” (24:47)
  • Practice builds interconnection:
    “It really helps you touch into the truth of our interconnection. Like, we’re mostly water and the world is mostly water… air travels around the globe within a couple of years. So we’re literally breathing each other…” (21:37)

• Dan’s Experiment:
  Uses mental noting walking through rooms: “Instead of noting cold, I will just notice fire.” (23:40)

• Fluidity of Classification:

  • Not a rigorous science; intention is to open perception, not to be exact.
  • “This is not the periodic table… it’s all mixed up.” (26:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Relaxation and Awakening:
  “Awakening is just a deepening process of relaxation.” (08:31, Sebene)
• On Letting Go of Shame:
  “If shame comes on hot… you can work with it in the body with RAIN or other practices… so the emotion dissipates naturally, which they should in a couple of minutes.” (11:36, Sebene)
• On Rumination:
  “Feel your feelings, drop the story.” (14:23, Sebene quoting Pema Chödrön)
• On Colonoscopy Humor:
  “These drugs are amazing.”
  “That’s the third time you’re telling me.” (19:40, Dan quoting nurse)
• On Mindfulness During Discomfort:
  “No, you can cry if it sucks.” (17:22, Sebene)
• On the Elements Practice:
  “We’re literally breathing each other and throughout time and space…” (21:37, Sebene)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:30: Listener questions on breath meditation begin
• 04:20: Sebene responds in-depth on breath challenges
• 09:39: Transition to questions on shame
• 12:00: RAIN practice explained
• 14:23: Dealing with rumination/regret
• 15:53: Colonoscopy prep tangent, dealing with pain/anxiety
• 20:16: Introduction to the elements practice
• 23:39: How to apply elements in life and meditation
• 26:39: Wrapping up, reminders about events and resources

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Conclusion & Upcoming Events

• Community and Practice:
  The episode closes by encouraging listeners to join live sessions and in-person or online retreats with Sebene, Dan, and Jeff Warren (27:00–27:56).
• Final Takeaways:
  • It’s okay to adapt your meditation practice to what works for you
  • Feeling your emotions—without clinging to stories—builds resilience and presence
  • Embodying experience through techniques like the elements practice can help break cycles of rumination, shame, and anxiety

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For more resources, meditations, and details on future events, visit DanHarris.com or check the show notes.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

It's the 10% happier podcast. I'm dan harris. Hello party people. How we doing today? Today we're going to talk about how to deal with shame, what to do when your mind won't stop ruminating, a technique for managing strong negative emotions, an ancient Buddhist practice for getting out of your head and into your body, and how to handle it when you feel like you cannot meditate on your breath. There is also in this conversation a fairly extended detour into colonoscopy prep that I did not see coming, but you'll understand when we get there. My guest is the meditation teacher and author Seben A. Selassie. Seb and I recently co wrote and co recorded and an Audible original, so an audiobook that you can get over on Audible. It's called Even you can Meditate. You should go check it out over on Audible. What you're about to hear though, is a live Q and A that Seb and I did with subscribers to my new ish meditation app, 10% with Dan Harris. If you haven't done it already, you can sign up for the app [e-mail] also heads up if you want to meditate with me in person. I've got two events coming up. On May 17, I'll be at the 92nd Street Y in New York City. I'll guide a meditation and take your questions. Then on October 16th through 18th, Sebenay and I, along with our friend Jeff Warren, will be doing our annual meditation party retreat. It's a weekend thing up at the Omega Institute in upstate New York. Links for both events are in the show notes. All right, we'll get started with 7A Slassie right after this. There is a version of your home you haven't lived in yet, where the light behaves, where the rooms feel finished, where you sleep until you decide to wake up. Blinds.com has spent 30 years making it easy to find the perfect fit. With over 25 million windows covered and they've got 50,000 five star reviews, you can feel confident you're in good hands. As a homeowner myself, I cannot tell you how important blinds are. You probably already know this, but in our house we have definitely experienced the importance of blinds. We get a lot of sunlight, which is a great thing, but you don't want it in your face first thing in the morning. So having blinds that block the sun really important for a good night's sleep. And we know that a good night's sleep is just the linchpin of a healthy and happy Life. Over on blinds.com, they've got a great selection. They've also got tons of other features. The ability to customize any window covering, free samples sent right to your door, and the ability to easily add installation at checkout rightnowblinds.com is giving our listeners an exclusive $50 off when you spend $500 or more and just use code Happier at checkout Limited time offer rules and restrictions apply. See blinds.com for detail.

[A]

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[B]

hello Seb and A. Selassie. How we doing?

[A]

Hey Dan Harris. I'm good.

[B]

We had a lot of questions about meditating on the breath. This is an issue I've had myself. So I'll just read some of the questions and then Seb, you can respond on the back end. This first one's from Tom. I've been doing one form of meditation or another for 50 years almost daily. One form that has always eluded me is breath. I find it impossible to both pay attention to my breath and breathe normally at the same time. Any suggestions? I'll read one more from Vana. I always find breath meditation hard. I'm one to focus on hands or feet because when I focus on breath it often becomes restricted or manipulated. Bringing my attention to my belly as it rises and falls is helpful, but even still, paying attention to all the parts of the breath really makes my breath feel unnatural. Seb, what say you?

[A]

So I was thinking about it and I feel like there's two parts to this because there's sort of the technical part, which really is whatever works. There's nothing saying that you have to do breath meditation. And if someone's been practicing for decades and it's going well and breath is not a part of it, that's fine. Really. There are a lot of reasons to be more sort of practical technical about it. I think a lot of us are not comfortable with being with the breath or observing the breath. And that has to do with the fact that many of us are mouth breathers. You know, there's whole systems of well being in, for example, the yogic tradition, pranayama and breath work that help us to really be with our breath in a healthier way. Most of us are very shallow breathers many of us mouth breathe. And there's a lot to the relaxing and other health benefits of just breathing in a relaxed way through the nose. There's a lot of ways to learn that. Again, yoga being one of them. But there are other breathwork forms that help us to just learn to settle our nervous system through breathing. And if we're not accustomed to that and it's not part of our practice, then we're putting attention on the breath is just going to emphasize the fact that we're breathing shallow in a shallow way, or, you know, our breathing might be constricted. That's why we meditation teachers often give the instruction to kind of open the chest and not collapse. So it's not about sitting ramrod straight. It's really allowing the breath to move. And the breath is one of those systems in the body that is so powerful. It's both parasympathetic and sympathetic and conscious and unconscious. And it has all sorts of regulating properties. And there's a lot of benefit to breathing through the nose specifically. It's much easier to regulate. There's nitric oxide. I think it's nitric oxide that is produced. We get it from other things that we eat, but it's produced through the nasal passages. And it's directly related to, like some sort of relaxation response in the nervous system or the vascular system. And so, yeah, there's a lot of benefits to breath. And we can also just be with other things like the hands and feet. And if we're not deeply involved in that relaxation process yet, or we're just on that journey, I encourage it for everyone to learn to be with the breath more. But we can also still be mindful and meditate, even if the breath is not our object. I also find I'm a big proselytizer for lying down meditation, that it's easier to be with the breath often when we're lying down, because we're just generally more relaxed. And so you might want to try that maybe as part of a body scan to see if that makes it any easier. There was also another question in this, that someone was sort of paying attention at the belly, the breath of the belly, as if that was almost inferior. And there's something very intimate about watching the breath at the nostrils. And there's. There are different experiences that might come from that, depending. You know, all of us have different breathing. But it's not like you get brownie points for being with the breath or the nostrils or in the lungs. Like, we're just being with the breath, however, we can be with the breath, and that's sometimes through the whole body. So that's my technical answer, which is kind of rambling and maybe long. But I think this is also getting to a deeper issue, which is around relaxation. Can't remember who. The Dharma teacher who said that awakening is just a deepening process of relaxation. And I'm sure you could verify this, Dan, like, the most awake teachers or even people, they don't have to be Dharma teachers. They know they're relaxed people, and it doesn't mean that they don't have their quirks, but there's a sense of ease. And that is a lot about the breath, too, that I think when we're bringing that same. Am I getting it right? Am I getting it wrong? Some achievement idea of where we should be in our practice. Like, there's a lot of tension in that, and that driving actually gets in the way of our success, if we could call it that. And I think this is a metaphor for life, too. Like, you know, we think, like, the tension is going to get us somewhere, but it's actually the ease and the relaxation. And we see that in, you know, Alyssa Liu or, like, any great athlete or dancer, artist, or. I'm going to shut up now.

[B]

No, it was great. I mean, it reminds me of something Joseph says all the time, which is one way to think about enlightenment is lightening up.

[A]

Yes. That's great. Yes.

[B]

Just a few questions come in over there, or comments and questions. Actually, these are two comments that came in over the transom from subscribers while you were talking. Seb, Mike says, I got my nose waxed yesterday, and breathing is amazing.

[A]

That's an advanced meditation technique?

[B]

Yes, it's a tantric. And Mary Lou says when focusing on the breath is hard, I focus on the heartbeat.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

All right, so let's see. There are some other questions that have come in in advance.

[A]

Yeah. And if you all have any questions about anything I said, please drop them.

[B]

Yes. And I will keep an eye on those. But let me just ask you some questions, Seb, that came in in advance, and this one's from Danny. Can you talk more about how you work with feelings of shame in your meditation practice?

[A]

That's interesting, because I don't know if they mean, like, shame in different parts of my life or shame about the meditation practice.

[B]

Hmm. I assume shame writ large, not just about the meditation practice.

[A]

Yeah. When we're talking about, like, our mind states, of course, we can have a perspective on different mind states. So I think one of the Challenges of shame is that. What do they say? It's like guilt is I did something wrong. Shame is I am wrong. There can be a place for regret and feelings of guilt or remorse and. And also atonement. Those are all, I think, healthy responses depending on circumstances. Shame has this tinge of like, I'm not supposed to make mistakes. I'm not supposed to have hardship. I'm fundamentally bad. I haven't heard anyone give me an argument that it's useful. I think it's good to have that perspective. It's helped me to have that perspective on shame. But then working with mind states is the same regardless of the mind state. If it's coming as sort of, you know, a thought and like, lots of looped thinking, then we engage in the practice that we set out to do in the first place. Like, we hike the trail that we got on. We don't start going off trail and then getting lost in the woods and somebody has to, like, extract us. You know, it's like we just stay on task. So if you were there to be with the body, then be with the body. And if you're there to have open awareness, then you have open awareness, and the shame moves with that too. But if the shame comes on hot, and we've talked about this almost every week with this group as an emotion, then you can work with it in the body with rain or other practices that kind of help the emotion dissipate naturally, which they should in a couple of minutes. So I wouldn't necessarily work with shame any differently than any other mind state, but it's helpful to have perspective on it, I think. Does that make sense?

[B]

It does make sense. You mentioned rain. Can you just recapitulate rain for people who are new to it?

[A]

Yes. It's a great acronym that was created by dharma teacher Michelle McDonald and popularized by Tara Brock. Rain stands for recognize, allow, investigate, and nurture. And each step is a process of, you know, what's happening right now, Can I allow it? And then going in a little bit deeper into it when we're able to.

[B]

And rain is really helpful because it's something you can do in your meditation practice if you notice a big emotion like shame or anger or whatever it is. But you could also do it free range as you're moving around the world and you get hammered by some unpleasant experience. There's actually one question coming in on rain, so let me do that before we move to the other shame comments. Heather says, I know the N in rain as non identification. I think sometimes People say nurture. Sometimes people say non identification. What's your take on that, Seth?

[A]

It was originally non identification. And that's going into sort of the deeper territory, kind of the deep end of the pool. And you know, who's thinking these thoughts or who's having this emotion. And the teachings of not self, that's not always necessary. Sometimes it's not helpful because it can get us in our head. We're not necessarily experiencing it, we're thinking about it. So nurture is just a way to actually make space for whatever is here and not trying to go looking for a sense of not self.

[B]

I mean, I think Joseph has some ways to play with non identification or not self that are, to me, at least, reasonably comprehensible. You know, one is to just move from I am feeling shame to there is shame just as a grammatical tweak that puts you in a different relationship to it. And then the other is just kind of the passive voice of I am aware of shame. To shame is being known. And then you get a question then. Then you can ask, like, known by what? So, as I always say, just play with this stuff. If it doesn't land for you, that doesn't matter. There are thousands of tools in meditation. Some will work, some won't. Let's just get back to shame, because a lot of people have a lot to say about this. Carol wrote, I have trouble letting go of past events, which I regret and ruminate about suggestions.

[A]

I've said it every week because apparently I'm a broken record. That Pema Chodron quote, feel your feelings drop the story. And there are many ways. And Dan just highlighted some, working with thoughts as these ephemeral objects. And I find for myself, this is true for people like me, who tend to be in their heads, that coming back to the body is a way to cut that constant storytelling that we're in. So there's some rumination because there's some feeling. So let yourself feel that feeling. But let go of the stories. You don't need to pick them apart. You don't need to categorize them. You don't need to not find yourself in them in some way. You just come back to the body as this present moment. And that is, I have said for many years, I could just teach the same meditation over and over again. And the words just kind of shift a little bit. But that first foundation of the body is so rich. And there are many ways into it. The breath sensations, movement, the elements practice, the body parts practice. Like, if you go into the teachings of mindfulness of the body. There are actually a lot of tools in there, and I think that's a really good remedy for our culture. It's hard for us to hear the call to embodiment in the teachings because we are so out of our bodies. So that's what I would say for ribination

[B]

if time we'll come back to the elements practice, because I think it's worth unpacking that. But I do have to say that the chat is on fire. Seb. Oh, over colonoscopy prep. Okay, this is. This is showing that we have a lot of people over age. What is it, 40, when you have to start doing colonoscopy? But Andrea wrote, I can't think because I have to drink a colonoscopy prep prep after this. And my heart is racing with anxiety, hard to focus on my breath. I just start to cry. For anybody who has the benefit of being young enough not to need colonoscopies yet, it's involves this very unpleasant process for many of us where you have to drink this disgusting stuff that makes you poop a lot so that they can go in there and have a look the next day. Andrea, I'm sorry this is so unpleasant for you. There are like so many comments coming in of encouragement and comfort for Andrea. Seb, you have endured so many medical procedures way more painful and uncomfortable than colonoscopy prep. Although colonoscopy prep definitely sucks, given your experience in the medical realm, what would you recommend for somebody in this type of situation?

[A]

Okay, first of all, I've had so many procedures and many surgeries. I've been hospitalized numerous times. I've never had a colonoscopy. What I know because I get so many scans, they don't have to do that. Yeah. So I'm sorry for all of you who have to experience that and whatever works, because I think depending on our temperament, but I think many of us in this culture tend to beat ourselves up about how we do anything. And so we're getting pain and suffering wrong too, because we think we have to, like, be mindful with it and somehow at ease. And it's like, no, you can cry if it sucks. You know, there's so many tips I'm learning, like if I never need to do a colonoscopy, I need to come back to this chat. There are things to help us bring ease to ourselves. You know, if we. If we're having in pain, they're certain pain meds that help some pain or not. We don't have to sit through it. You know, we can move, we can rock, we can bring comfort to ourselves and our bodies. And then we can also practice mindfulness. Like, how do we be with what is and not the story of what is? Are we. Are we really with the experience? Like, it sounds like the drink is really gross. Okay, you know, cut it with Sprite or do the things to make it a little more, you know, easy to go down. But how awful is it? Are you in the experience or are you just, like, pushing it away? It's that menopause teaching, which I know many of you are in that or experience that masterclass of menopause and hot flashes. And it's like, we hate the experience of hot flashes, but many of us will go in a sauna. And so what. What are you. What are you not liking about the experience? And can you bring some ease to what's happening? If it's not causing you harm, you could probably be with it. You know, can I be with it? It's not a yes or no question, actually. It's like a dare.

[B]

Mambo writes. With regard to the colonoscopy thread that is dominating the chat today, Mambo writes, okay, in my experience, the colonoscopy has fantastic drugs. So enjoy that part of the experience. That's a reference to the fact that they knock you out. In order to do a colonoscopy, they usually use a drug like Propofol or Versed.

[A]

You know, the drugs.

[B]

Well, you know, I have a certain taste for drugs is what got me into the whole meditation thing in the first place. I have a funny story, which is that the first time I got a colonoscopy must have been in my early 40s when you're supposed to start doing these things. I woke up in the recovery area and I heard myself saying involuntarily, just kind of heard the words escape my mouth. These drugs are amazing. And the nurse didn't even turn around and she said, that's the third time you're telling me.

[A]

Oh, that's hilarious. Oh, my God. Wow.

[B]

Anyway, yeah, I'm getting a lot of laughing emojis as a result of that one. Let's go back to terra firma, pun intended, and talk a little bit about the elements, because you referenced them earlier. And one of the big refrains in all of your teaching is getting out of the head and into the body. And elements. Practice can be a great way to do that. So can you break it down?

[A]

Yeah. So I love this practice. It's one of my Favorites. And I love how it connects to so many traditions because as I've. I'm not, you know, an elements scholar, but from what I can tell, elements in some form exist in every culture, on every continent, from ancient Greece to Ayurveda to Chinese medicine, to North American indigenous practices, African. They might be five, they might be six, they might have different names. But it exists as sort of a metaphor for relating to the inside and outside of the physical world, which is one in the absolute sense. There's no separation. We're just vibrating energy patterns, and then we're also separate. And so that breaks it down into just four in the Buddhist practice. And there is a practice of mindfulness of the elements of earth, water, fire and air. And you're really just practicing feeling the solidity of earth, the fluidity of water, the energetic temperature of fire, and then the ephemeral connecting nature of air and the breath. And it's such a grounding practice. It's a really beautiful practice. It's a wonderful way to sort of recognize the connection of inside and outside. And it really. Without getting into complicated physics because we can't understand the math anyways. Like, it. It really helps you touch into the. The truth of our interconnection. Like, we're mostly water and the world is mostly water. Like, how is that possible? We feel so solid, you know, and air travels around the each hemisphere within six months, and I think the entire planet within a couple of years. So we're literally breathing each other and throughout time and space because air molecules barely change since the Big Bang or since the Earth's atmosphere probably was created. It's just a kind of fascinating practice. Also, for that feeling of. There's a refrain in mindfulness teachings that we're being aware internally, we're being aware externally, and we're being aware internally and externally. I'm always puzzled by that. But both internally and externally. And that refrain is said over and over and over and over again. It's the thing that's repeated the most along with then paying attention to impermanence and paying attention to the passing, the arising and passing nature of experience and phenomena. So it's baby steps into the deep pool you're jumping straight into. Like there's no self. Like you're kind of walking into the deep end. Yeah.

[B]

Maybe worth saying a little bit more, Seb, about exactly how to apply this in your meditation practice. I'll describe how I do it because I'm not even sure I'm doing it correctly. And. And then maybe you can jump in on that. How does that sound?

[A]

Yeah, go. Go for it.

[B]

Okay. So for me, if I'm an open awareness practice, especially if I'm doing walking meditation, eyes open, walking through space, and I'm just using a little bit of mental noting to help me stay attuned to whatever's happening right now, instead of say, if I'm walking through a cold room, instead of noting cold, I will just notice fire, because that is the fire element, which describes all sorts of temperatures. So I'm walking through a hot room or a cold room, it's fire. If I'm feeling my feet on the ground, earth, because earth is solidity. If I notice the breath while I'm moving, while I'm sitting, that's the air element, I think I've never quite known what water refers to, really. The way I've heard the meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein describe it is actually there's a connection between the elements practice and this hard to grok notion of not self or the self being an illusion. Because instead of noticing things as somehow being yours, well, they're part of the

[A]

elements, so they're metaphor for the nature of reality. That's why they exist in all of these traditions. And there the fifth element is in Vedic teachings and in other traditions is ether, which some people believe is, you know, consciousness or some sense of space, like in a esoteric sense. And I love that, Dan, because I love bringing the elements practice into life. We don't have to go out to wild nature to experience the elements. Like heating water is the fire element, and your tea is the water element, and the table I'm sitting at is the earth element. So the world around us is giving us kind of an entryway into this practice. So I love, like, being able to kind of identify the things you were saying, Dan. And it also can be helpful to actually practice it as a meditation where you go through earth, water, fire, air meditations online that you can find that will, you know, guide you through these four elements step by step so you can learn what it feels like in the body. You know, so you can sort of practice with feeling the solidity of the body, feeling, know, the fluidity of the body, which is really just feeling the saliva or maybe the moistness behind our eyelids. For some people, they can feel the blood. There was someone who said that, you know, they can feel their heartbeat. Not everyone has access to that, but you sometimes can feel fluid in your belly and the temperature of the body as fire, and then the air element, the breath, obviously. So, yeah, it can be helpful to kind of do the scales of it before you sort of play the music of practicing the elements out in the world.

[B]

If I'm feeling my legs moving, that's air, not water. Water would be more like saliva or sweat or something like that.

[A]

Yeah. You know, and this is where like, this is not the periodic table. Like, we don't have, like a lot of elements to work with. So what is water? What is earth? What is like, it's all mixed up, right? Like we would say, like trees and mountains are earth, but they're filled with air and water and other elements too.

[B]

So as we come to a close here, just want to say that if you enjoy listening to Seb, Seb and I will be doing our annual meditation party event with our third friend, Jeff Warren, coming up in October at the Omega Institute in upstate New York, which is an awesome chance for us to hang out. And you should go. If you go to eomega.com or eomega.org actually and poke around, you can find meditation party. I'll put a link in the show notes for people who are listening to this on the podcast. Actually, I think my weekly newsletter on Monday had a link to it as well.

[A]

And this time they're bringing back the online.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So we didn't have it last year, but it's back for this one.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Lots of folks in the chat. Stacy says highly recommend. Mike says, best party ever. Seb, thanks for today. Thanks for being you.

[A]

Thanks for having me, everyone.

[B]

Thanks again to Seb. Don't forget to check out my new meditation app or new ish meditation app. If you sign up, you'll get to come to our weekly live sessions like the one you just heard where we meditate together and then take your questions as great. Great way to support your practice, to do it with other people and to get your questions answered. Also, if you sign up, you get a growing library of meditations from amazing teachers ad free versions of this podcast. It's awesome. Join the party. Danharris.com finally, thank you very much to everybody who works so hard on this show. Our producers are Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasily. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer, Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer, DJ Cashmir is our executive producer, and Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.

[A]

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