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10% Happier with Dan Harris
In an Age of Techno-Pessimism, Here's the Science-Based Case for Optimism | Rob Marciano
00:48:24
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Hey everybody. Welcome to the 10% Happier podcast. I'm your host, Dan Harris. We're living in a time where people are, I think quite legitimately pretty pessimistic and anxious about the state of the world, specifically as it pertains to technology and specifically as it pertains to artificial intelligence, but not just artificial intelligence. So today we're going to talk about how, how to be less pessimistic and anxious. In other words, we're, we're going to, we're going to hear the evidence based, science based case for actually being optimistic. And that case is going to be laid out for us by an old friend of mine, an old colleague as well. His name is Rob Marciano. Right now he's the national weather correspondent for CBS News. He's been in television news for more than 30 years. He's a Cornell trained scientist. Before CBS he worked with me at ABC News. We were co hosts of Weekend Good Morning America and we're also personal friends. And he's got a new book that he has co written with a physicist named James Treffel and the book is called the Next Big Thing, Innovations for a Better, Smarter, Stronger Tomorrow, the Optimist case about the future of the planet. Coming up after this quick break with Rob Marciano. A few things before we hear from our sponsors. I've got exciting news. If you love this show but do not love listening to the advertisements, a subscription to my app, 10% with Dan Harris now includes a private ad free feed of the 10% Happier podcast available on whatever platform you choose, whether that's Apple, podcasts, Spotify or right inside the app itself. Plus, along with an ad free listening experience, the app also gives you a growing library of meditations from world class teachers, exclusive live stream events with me and many of our incredible instructors, and robust and supportive discussion threads where you can ask questions, share your struggles and connect with our growing community. We've got a free 14 day trial if you want to try before you buy. Join the party. Dan harris.com we'll be right back after this. My wife and I were doing a little shopping on Wayfair today. We got a floating basketball net for for our pool, which our son is extremely excited about. If you haven't checked out Wayfair, you should. You can now shop with Wayfair Verified. It's your shortcut to the good stuff. Their team of product specialists vets everything by hand using a 10 point inspection, testing things like quality of materials, functionality and features and even how long it takes to build you may have seen their website, but their selection is voluminous. They've got seating, grills, appliances, storage, lighting, rugs, decor, one place, everything you need. No bouncing between stores. And if putting it all together sounds like a headache, Wayfair can handle delivery, installation and assembly. You just pick what you want and they deal with the rest. Ready to upgrade your home for way less? Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home and get your space ready for less. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. Rob Marciano, welcome to the show.
- [03:19]
B
Hello. Dan Harris. Great to be here, my friend.
- [03:23]
A
This is such a trip. Usually I see you over dinner or for 10 years. I saw you on the set of Weekend Good Morning America. And now, now you're on my podcast. It's like, how did this happen?
- [03:35]
B
I know. I don't even think during COVID we did one of those drink a thons on Zoom. You know, this is our first virtual conversation. It's a little awkward.
- [03:45]
A
All right. Well, first of all, congratulations on your new book or new ish book.
- [03:49]
B
Thank you.
- [03:49]
A
I find it really interesting because we live in as, you know, like, people are so pessimistic these days, particularly about technology, and yet you've written this book as super optimistic. So what are those of us who are pessimistic getting wrong here?
- [04:07]
B
You know me well, Dan, and as a science guy, I'm trained to be a skeptic and question things. My internal personality for a long time still is of a cynic. You still want to question things as an aging adult, you've seen enough to where you want to play devil's advocate. But a lot of my personality over the years has been a little bit pessimistic. So this evolution and epiphany with this book has certainly been a bit of a 180, and it's taken a lot of people by surprise, you included. But you know how it goes. I mean, you've been through evolutions in your, in your way of life and mentality, and this has been one for me, and it's been a joy to go through it. And much like your journey and speaking to people about spirituality and enlightenment and the like, getting to meet the people who are the geniuses of our generation out there developing the latest and greatest technologies and innovations that are going to propel us into the future has been amazing to witness. Their joy and enthusiasm is nothing short of mind blowing and can't help you. Can't. You can't help yourself. But just to be drawn into that group, it's infusive, it's engaging and it's magnetic. So like so much that we have in life, in the world around us, when you meet the right people, they can change your mind. And I grew a lot in writing this book and it has made me more hopeful because with all the negativity that we have out there and all the conflict that we have, be it in international geopolitics or our national politics, we're all going through this life together, one step at a time, one day at a time. And the journey forward after meeting the people that are developing these new ways is quite inspiring.
- [06:14]
A
We'll get into the specifics, but there's the, just on a high level, there's the science, which is you find compelling, but it seems like actually meeting the people, the scientists really kind of put you over the top.
- [06:28]
B
Yeah. I mean, you think of the, the people that have developed things over the years other than the Steve Jobs and Elon Musk of the world, who, just. Because the way our world has been and is the past couple decades, every, everybody is front and center. You know, whether it's a man dressed in all black on stage whipping out this new device called iPhone, or Elon Musk doing his thing, everybody's out there in your face. But the Thomas Edison of the world, the Nikola Tesla's of the world, you know, they're, they're, it wasn't quite that way. You know, they may have had their own roadshow that you may have heard them, heard about them on a, through a telegraph or some sort of newspaper. But the brilliant minds and innovators of the past have always been these guys that are behind the curtain. The wizard of Oz and what our modern world allows us to. Whether or not you go meet them in person or you meet them like we're talking to now is you. You get a feel for what these people are. And more importantly, you see that they're real people. You know, they're, they're, they're the same as you are as far as flesh and blood is concerned. And there's something that is inspiring about that. I mean, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's. These guys are smarter than me, no doubt about that. And I'm privileged to meet them. But we breathe the same air the same way, we put our pants on the same way, we put our shoes on the same way. They're just like me. And, and that gives that feeling of inclusivity that I don't think we had decades past when we weren't as so together in every sort of medium.
- [08:01]
A
So the book goes through four different areas. The fourth area is the one where I think most people are most anxious, that is information technology, namely AI. So we'll hold that for last because I think that's where we'll want to spend the most time. But it starts with energy. And what's interesting to me is, is knowing you for so long you have spent and continue to spend an enormous amount of time, like at the tip of the spear when it comes to what's happening in our climate. Like you're the guy standing out there like a dummy in the middle of the hurricanes and I'm kidding, you're standing out there quite bravely, honestly showing us what's happening with these hurricanes and tornadoes, etc. Etc. And, and so I, and for my POV, there seems to be very legitimate concern about what's happening with our climate. So what, what have you learned that has like, put your mind at ease to at least some extent?
- [09:08]
B
Well, the climate crisis, if you will, is still, is still alarming and it's still worrisome. And there's been an evolution of my thought process there over the past 20 years. I mean, when Al Gore came out in the, in the early 2000s and, and showed the hockey stick. As a meteorologist who's trained to be a skeptic on the five day forecast, let alone the 50 year forecast, me and my colleagues would kind of brush it off like saying, well, we'll see what happens. I mean, it's not, it can't, it can't quite happen that fast or be that catastrophic. And you know, 10 years, five, 10 years later you started to see the impacts and here we are and it's been consistent in seeing the heavier rainfall and the catastrophic flooding that we're seeing, the extreme heat waves that we're seeing and the extreme fire behavior that we're seeing, the explosive hurricanes that we're seeing, and to some extent the same thing for some of these winter storms. So it is having an impact and that is still alarming. Do I think it's the end of the world? No. I think not only do humans have the ability, amazing ability to adapt and evolve, but so does our planet. We do have the ability to slow things down. Will we be able to turn it around by 2050 like the United nations hopes, or by the end of this century? I wouldn't say turn around, but we certainly have the ability to slow things down. And when you see all the advances that we're making in so many other arenas. How can you not believe that we'll be able to get a hold of this climate crisis and the warming of our globe? And the number one way to do that is to, is to what? To limit our carbon dioxide. Now, the book doesn't, I'm not thumping the Bible here, and I'm not stumping on climate change constantly, but it does have an overarching theme. And many of our technologies are inherently better for the climate and better for our environment. And who doesn't want that? So if we can be more efficient and we can be cleaner and, and things can be cheaper and faster and starter and smarter and stronger, I mean, that's a win, win, win, win, win for everybody. So it all comes together if we can stay, if we can stay on that path. But the number one, to answer your question, the number one way, as we all know, to try to slow down the warming of, of our global temperatures and to, and to slow down our climate change is to slow down our production of CO2. And we need electricity. We need power, we need, we need the energy. And the, the great majority of the energy and electricity that we're produced across the globe is from coal, from oil, and from natural gas. And those continue to belch CO2 into the atmosphere. So wind, solar, geothermal to an extent, and nuclear, really, that's going to propel us forward. And the most exciting thing that I got to witness and, and explore while writing this book is nuclear fusion, which is different from fission fission, which we've been doing since the 50s. Basically where you split an atom. Fusion, you're trying to fuse the atom and that releases even more energy, like the energy of the surface of the sun. But it's also that much harder to do. It's been the elusive holy grail of power generation forever. And there's a lot of scientists out there that still think, including my co author, that we're probably never going to get there, at least not in our lifetime. So I'm not that quite pessimistic because after talking to so many people that are working on this, that are so excited and optimistic, but we're making strides and I do think it will happen in our lifetime, at least on a small scale. And then eventually we'll have nuclear fusion and our kids will be, and grandkids will be living in a cleaner, better place for it.
- [13:29]
A
So that's the holy grail. It's debatable whether we'll get there in our lifetime. And it really Depends on the age of the listener because some of our younger listeners may see it and you and I may not. However, and you kind of mentioned this, but maybe worth saying a little bit more, there are other things happening that, other technological advances that, you know, bolstered your sense of optimism on this score.
- [13:53]
B
I'm a big proponent of nuclear and if has to be nuclear fission the old school way, so be it. They're, they're finding ways to make that a little bit cleaner, a little bit safer. As you know, the waste in those coming out of those facilities is problematic. But, but we bury it buried enough deep in the ground, we can kind of bide our time until we figure out the fusion process.
- [14:17]
A
There's something in the book about tiny nuclear reactors. What's, what's that about?
- [14:22]
B
Right now there's billions of dollars being invested in nuclear fusion and startup companies here in the US that's, that's the new space race, if you will. The gold rush is to get to nuclear fusion and there, and, and a lot of these companies like say Microsoft, they're investing in it heavily because they want to be able to power their data centers and there are other things that they need a lot of electricity for. So the best way to do that is to have your own reactor on site. So having these mini reactors power maybe your campus of data centers and, or corporate offices, that's a lot more efficient than having to suck power off the grid. And then you can also feed the grid with, with some of the power that you're not using. So we're seeing companies develop those as well.
- [15:20]
A
And just to just come back to the, the nuclear waste part of all of this, that's where people start getting pretty nervous around nuclear power. And you know, people in our generation, remember Three Mile island and Chernobyl and things like that, what's the evidence based pushback to the nervous to the anxious from your pov?
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B
We haven't had a major accident, if you will, since, you know, Fukushima, which wasn't really their fault.
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A
So that was a tsunami.
- [15:52]
B
Yeah, the tsunami got involved there. So the pushback is from consumers and citizens. Is that like you and I, we remember those, those accidents and, and those areas are still soiled and not livable. And so there's evidence, there's present day evidence that shows you that yeah, this, this could be really bad. But we've like everything else, we've gotten a lot better at it than the newer reactors that are coming online. And even the ones that they're, they're blown off the dust on and bring you back online. They're updating with newer technologies, newer safety protocols and making, all in all, making them safer to be living around.
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A
Okay, so that's energy. On a related note, there's electricity. Just so the first part of the book is energy. The second part of the book is electricity. We'll get to infrastructure and information. What's the difference in your mind between electricity and energy?
- [16:47]
B
So electric cars, electric airplanes, now we're seeing it come online, but at some point in the future, we'll be driving our own aircraft around more than we will be our cars. And even if we do have cars, we're not going to be driving those either.
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A
Right.
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B
It's not going to be long where they're going to be all driverless, which I think is amazing. As much as I like to drive once in a while, I don't know anybody likes to be stuck in traffic. And the numbers bear witness to the fact that driverless cars are much more safer than, than human driving. You know, most like, like most accidents are human caused. So if we can limit, eliminate the human, we're going to be safer on the roads and less accidents. So fewer traffic jams and a faster way to get to work whether you go on the ground or via the air.
- [17:41]
A
I tend on these issues of like the state of the world to be at least short to midterm, pretty pessimistic. But, but the one, one thing that I am personally very optimistic about is driverless cars because it's just so much safer when you think about or when you report on a drone air travel future, like not just airplane, but, you know, going, going to and from the airport or going from the suburbs into the city on drones. How are we going to make that safe?
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B
Well, it's just like every other thing in the air. It's faa, it's going to be FAA regulator, there's going to be highways in the sky, there's going to be air traffic controls and airspaces that you're allowed to be in and be out of. It is a regulatory headache, no doubt about it. But if we can figure out the additional planes and helicopters that we have in the sky every year because of the increased amount of money in this country and the increased amount of air travel, we'll be able to figure, we'll figure out what's out there, what's next? There's a lot of airspace, with the exception of New York City and the airspace here, which is extremely congested, there's a fair amount of airspace to be able to navigate around and the FAA and the air traffic controllers have the ability to do that now. That said, that whole scheme and I haven't done any much reporting on this, but there is a future in which every aircraft that's out there will be tracked automatic, you know, autonomously, and there'll be less human error in the air traffic control tower and more assistance by AI and the like to where air travel at least colliding with somebody else will be much safer too.
- [19:38]
A
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- [23:36]
B
Well, and if anybody watches Formula one, they, they know what that is. And what I love about auto racing is, especially Formula one, is you are seeing the future on your television or in person when you go to a race. The newest technologies are being developed in Formula one because they have the money. So regenerative braking is something that they've used in their hybrid race cards for the past several years now. And basically what it does, what it means is when you hit the brakes going into a corner or just to slow down your car, that friction basically creates energy that charges the battery, much like an engine, kind of keeps the alternator going in your gas powered car, which charges your Battery when you hit the brakes in a turn or just has come to a full stop, that action, that conservation of energy then gets transferred back into, into the battery. But the batteries are key. You mentioned the EVs and the range, right? Where we struggle in the EV market is the range. Nobody wants to run out of gas, nobody wants to be stuck on the highway because their battery, their battery died, or they don't want to have to wait an hour or two hours to find a charging station and then charge the battery, which takes a lot longer than putting gas in your car. The new battery that's going to take us to the next level in electric vehicles is solid state batteries. And basically it's the same concept as fluid batteries, except it's in the solid state. And so those batteries drain much slower. And therefore your range will go twice as far in an EV vehicle and they will charge twice as fast. So the big race amongst car manufacturers is who's going to find the solid state battery of the future. Because that's going to really make everybody buy an electric vehicle. And we're not far away from that. But once that happens, I think the combustible engine will begin to fade away.
- [25:52]
A
That's interesting. One last question about electricity. You've done some reporting on smart homes, which is kind of like crazy to think about how our homes are going to change. What, what did you learn?
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B
Well, we're seeing that already, right? Just a matter of how much you want to dive into it. The Internet of things, as we like to call it, which is a not so fancy way of saying the Internet that's connected to the light bulb in this room or, or my refrigerator, which can. Not my refrigerator, but some of these newer refrigerators can sense when you're out of milk or when you're out of butter and tell you to go get some more milk, or better yet, go online for you and order to have it delivered to your door. If you have a ring camera or a nest thermostat, it's not quite autonomous yet, right? You can set it and you can say if the temperature falls to this number, then you can kick in. But who wants to go through that sort of. We want the Internet of things to kick in and so that we don't have to think about our thermostat, where it senses what's the most efficient time of day to heat your home while you're there or not there. And so this Internet of things is. It's, it's going to be a thing. It already is to a Small extent, but it's going to be a bigger thing, and it'll like everything else that's new. It'll. It'll be great when it works and not so great and, you know, maddening when it doesn't. But we've been in that state of technology now for the past 30 or 40 years, so we're used to it.
- [27:26]
A
I mean, I think all that stuff's really cool.
- [27:28]
B
That fancy house of yours. You must have some stuff that's automated like that. I mean, that.
- [27:31]
A
You don't have to think, I've got nothing. I've got nothing. We. We. This house was built in the 70s, and it's. It is anything but smart. And maybe that's a reflection of its owners.
- [27:46]
B
You were going there. That's. That's very not true. Well, you, you do have the capability of figuring out when. When you're out of milk and, and to go get some, or order some up.
- [27:57]
A
So we're going with the Internet of the sniff test on the milk for now. All right, let's talk infrastructure. Why should we be. I'm. I'm just joking for. I'm laughing for a second about how I think for two administrations or three administrations running, there's. We've always been on the cusp of infrast. You know, where the White House is. You know, they're going to roll out their big infrastructure thing, and it never quite happens. Although Biden maybe did some of it. You know, I think anybody who drives on the highways notices the sorry state of our infrastructure in many places in this country. What is this? The. What is the case for optimism in this regard?
- [28:37]
B
Well, when we think of infrastructure, use that term, it's not. We often think just like, okay, well, the interstates, the bridges, the civic buildings, and the sewer systems, that's the infrastructure of our shared society. But the infrastructure of all the things, the desk that I'm sitting on, the house that's my home, how those things are built is infrastructure as well. And the exciting things that are happening on that front are going to take us to the future in a more efficient and economical way while also creating less of a carbon footprint. Some things that are exciting are 3D printing, and we've all seen this where computers, you know, 3D printing, whatever it is, anything as small as, you know, a glass to a home, these things, you can 3D print a home. You can put just about any sort of material in one of these 3D printers, big and small, and create whatever you want. And it doesn't have to be, to scale, it can be big, bespoke. And so that efficiency right there is amazing and cost saving. So 3D printing of homes and buildings, that's going to be huge and part of our infrastructure. So that's exciting, but that's really new. What I discovered also in this book though is what's old is new again and exciting right in front of our eyes and that is the use of wood. Now, you know, Dan, I'm a tree hugger. I love me some trees. And for years I just cringed every time I saw a tree get cut down. I cringed every saw, every time I saw a piece of wood get wasted. Even some chopsticks. I mean that would like when we're wasting, we're wasting wood. And what, what I learned in this book is our new use of what's called mass timber, which is basically taking blocks of wood and gluing them together, in some cases putting them together like Lego logs and building not just small homes, but mid range skyscrapers, mid high rises, mid rises. And doing that in a cost effective way and doing it in a lower carbon footprint. And one that makes you feel good when you go into a place that's wood paneled and I'm talking about the ones from the 70s, but a nice new log cabin or lodge in the mountains. You walk in and the pine paneling is just kind of surrounding you, it feels good. And there's a term for that in designing, it's called biophilic design. And it's based on the fact that before all these walls and windows that we live in now, we evolved in nature, we evolved outside. And so we naturally feel more at peace when we're inside, when it feels a little bit like the outside. That's why we like to have plants inside, maybe an aquarium inside, maybe just a little splash of wood here and there to give you that warmth of the outdoors brought in. So mass timber buildings, you see them going up, especially in these mid sized cities, feel good in that way. They take half the time to build, if not less. They take much less of a footprint as far as the foundation is concerned because building with wood is much lighter, it has some flexibility as far as being seismic. And it's environmentally better for us in that one. Concrete and steel pump out a lot of CO2 to make both concrete and steel pump out 8% of the global CO2 emissions each. So that's 15, 16% right there. We can't get away from concrete and steel. It's still the building blocks, the foundation of what we need, but we're getting better at it. I mean, we build now high performance concrete, which is twice as strong and lasts twice as long. That's good. But using a combination of wood and concrete, I think is the future. And, and it has the ability to take the wood in these trees, use it for good and capture that carbon. All right, so these trees, throughout their lifetime, they're sucking in carbon dioxide. And when they either burn or die and decay, then they re release that carbon back into the, into the atmosphere. Whenever we build with wood, we're capturing that carbon. It's not going anywhere until it either accidentally burns or we get rid of it in some capacity. But it's going to be captured for decades, if not centuries, and we get to use it as shelter. So mass timber, let's give a shout out to that and keep an eye out on your local community. You'll see them going up. You'll look and you'll see these skyscrapers go up and the columns are these massive wood columns. And I know what your next question is. Well, won't these things burn down? They have the remarkable ability not to burn down because like these giant redwoods in these forests that, that endure forest fires, a building made of mass timber columns, which can be 2, 3, 4ft wide, the outer area of that column, much like the bark of a tree, will get scorched, but the inner structure of it will remain intact. So yeah, they'll catch on fire like any other building because of the drywall, because of this and because of that. But they'll, they're just as safe as a building made completely of steel, concrete or brick. It's pretty amazing.
- [34:27]
A
My wife and I were doing a little shopping on Wayfair today and we got a floating basketball net for our pool, which our son is extremely excited about. If you haven't checked out Wayfair, you should. You can now shop with Wayfair verified. It's your shortcut to the good stuff. Their team of product specialists vets everything by hand using a 10 point inspection, testing things like quality of materials, functionality and features, and even how long it takes to build. You may have seen their website, but their selection is voluminous. They've got seating, grills, appliances, storage, lighting, rugs, decor, one place, everything you need, no bouncing between stores. And if putting it all together sounds like a headache, Wayfair can handle delivery, installation and assembly. You just pick what you want and they deal with the rest. Ready to upgrade your home for way less? Head to Wayfair.com right now. To shop all things home and get your space ready for less. That's W A Y-F A I R.com way fair every style, every home. Summer's here. Time for a vacation for many of us. But vacations can be a little stressful because of course, they often cost money. One way to reduce financial anxiety is, I have found, is to have all of your financial information in one place so you can look at it and get a sense of how things are going in one clean, clear interface. Which brings me to one of our sponsors today, Monarch. They have a partner product that does exactly that. My family and I have used it. Monarch is the personal finance app that tracks everything accounts, investments, savings goals and spending. Get your first year of Monarch Core for half off just $50 with promo code Happier. Most apps only tell you what you've already spent. Monarch helps set goals, map out big purchases, and see if you're actually on track before it's too late to adjust. You can ask Marnark AI assistant anything about your finances, like how much did I spend on travel last summer? Or can I afford this vacation without touching my savings spot? Things you wouldn't think to look for with AI Insights has your spending gone up or is it just inflation? Super helpful. Use code happier@monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year@monarch.com with the code Happier. I do want to get to the fourth part of your book, the most controversial part, the part most of us are worrying about these days, which is information, specifically AI. I'm not telling you anything new. We're recording this at the tail end of commencement season. We'll be posting it in a few months. So I apologize for what may seem like a temporal delay for listeners, but there are all these videos going around of anybody who mentions AI as a commencement speaker gets reflexively booed by the graduates. And you know, I just think there's an enormous amount of anxiety about what's happening. Is this thing going to take our jobs? Is it going to destroy us? Where do you net out on this?
- [37:30]
B
Oh, I net out on the positive for sure. And in my job as a meteorologist is already being impacted by AI, but it's being impacted in a in a positive way. It's making our forecasts more accurate. I understand the anxiety, no doubt about that. Especially if you graduate with a four year degree and you've studied coding or something that's tech heavy and replaceable with AI. So I get the animosity and the anxiety with that. But like we talked about in the beginning of this podcast, we have the ability to evolve. You know, when the printing press came out, there was a backlash on that as well, that there would be the end of our society as we know it. So I think every so many technologies over the decades and centuries that have come out, there's been fear of the unknown. And isn't that the case with so much of what we're afraid of or what anxiety is all about? It's the fear of what's going to happen next or the fear of what we don't understand. And I don't pretend to understand everything, but I understand a lot more now after writing this book to where I'm not as scared or anxious as I used to be about the future. And I want everybody to feel that way. I sleep a little bit better at night thinking that. And Dan, the vast majority of the experts that I talk to about AI and the future of where we're going with that and should we be afraid, not so much about the jobs disappearing, but about will the machine take over Time and time again, the experts have told me we are smart enough to build this incredible machine learning tool. We are smart enough to have an off switch. So I believe in that and I rest easily on that. That said, we do need to put guardrails on it like everything else, and we need to keep it out of the bad actors because bad actors obviously can take it to a different level. So that's the only wild card out there that I believe that we should be nervous about. But it's just like everything else, every piece of weaponry that we've ever had in, in our world, we've had to worry about it getting into bad hands. So that's a constant battle that, that we're, we're no stranger to. So this is just another, another one of those instances where we've got something new and exciting that has infinite amount of positive aspects to it. But there's a few negative things that we just need to police and police heavily and we're going to be fine. It's going to, it's going to be great and we're going to evolve and we're going to embrace this thing and it's going to make our, and more efficient and more excited and we're going to be able to do more of what we love to do, which is, I think really is be more with people. Because right now, you know, think about it like we, the past 10, 20 years we've, we've gotten so tech heavy to where we're constantly looking at our computers or on our handhelds and we're getting things done. We're being more efficient, but we're not, you know, we're so engrossed in our screen times. We're not that efficient. But if we can get an, an agencic AI to do some of these tasks for us and get us away from the screens, then we can have these personal connections that we used to be pretty good at a long time ago. So I see that happening. That AI is going to take some of this mundane stuff that's not good for our mental health, that's not good for our interpersonal relationships and take those tasks away from us and let us get back to doing what we do best, which is being with people and enjoying the people around us and fostering those relationships and being happier in our lives because of it.
- [41:20]
A
You and I debate lots of things off camera over dinner. Let me just make the opposite case and you just push back on me. I'll probably say some shit that you, given that you're regulated by the FCC and you work for journalistic association and I work for myself.
- [41:37]
B
I forgot to get the curse on this thing. You dropped an S bomb. Okay. I forgot to get the curse.
- [41:43]
A
Yeah, yeah. Well, whatever you be, you. You signed a morals clause in your CBS deal, so I don't know what you're able to get away with, but that's fair. I, I'll let my amygdala speak here on AI, which is one, we've got an arms race going on. An arms race going on among a bunch of companies here in the US and the UK and, and when I say UK, I'm thinking specifically of DeepMind, which is part of Google. But, but so it's mostly the US And I look at the folks running those companies and I, you know, don't feel a lot of comfort there. I heard his term recently in, in describing our current tech overlords. Some people are calling them the nerd Reich, which is harsh and clever at the same time. So, one, I don't feel a lot of comfort when I look at the people running these companies. Two, I don't look at the White House and think, oh, yeah, there are some grownups here who understand this technology and are regulating it. Three, I think about the arms race among these companies and then also with China, and I worry about whether that's all going to spin out of control. Four, I worry about the fact that even if this all goes well and we solve the alignment problem. Meaning, like the AI doesn't have a plan to turn us all into paperclips. If we solve that problem, there's still going to be massive dislocation and it may end up ultimately in 10, 20, 30 years with a world of abundance and more human connection. But the volume and intensity of change, I think is likely to lead to a lot of instability, or I fear it will. Yeah, so I just threw a lot of stuff at you. Where am I wrong?
- [43:35]
B
I didn't think we were going to get into our typical dinner conversations here debate about politics, but you bring up these are all fair points and given what we've seen just in the past year and a half, it's easy to get nervous about just about everything and the instability that we see right now. I don't have a good answer for you, Dan, other than to trust the process. And even though it appears that there aren't as many adults in the room as one would like, when we're talking about an arms race for AI, there's a lot of brilliant people that are just outside of that room that want to do good and want to make sure that our country succeeds and that the morally good succeed as well, be it our government or the technology companies and the head of those technology companies that may be just as power, power hungry as some of our politicians. Right. There's a, there's enough numbers of smart, powerful people in their own right that I would hope would revolt against anybody that would, that would want to grab so much of the power and, and do bad with it. There's not many times, Dan, where I'm right and, and you're wrong, but I'm, I'm, I'm praying that's the case this time.
- [45:03]
A
I mean, in some ways it's like a, it's, it's like, like I don't know. Neither of us knows. Right. And your inclination based on the facts, the data set you're looking at is. Yeah, I, I, my inclination is I trust the process and my inclination looking at the same data set is I'm worried, but it really is. Nobody knows. And this is all just our gut based on the information we're gathering and, and, and the nature of our own minds.
- [45:32]
B
I've, I've got a faction of friends that are full on tinfoil hat wearing fraternity man and, and they, I've got, I'm on their text thread, so I'm getting all, I'm getting bombarded with all sorts of stuff from, from that side of the spectrum. And, and I've got friends that are making excellent, well thought out points like you are and being the devil's advocate. And, and then I'm talking to the scientists who, you know, one, one could argue that the scientists and the people that are building these amazing things, they're a little too busy to be, you know, bothered by what's going on in the geopolitical world or what's happening in Washington. They're focused on making this. This thing that's been their lifelong passion and they want to see completed within their life. So it's possible that I've gotten a little bit drunk by talking to these amazingly smart people and all the exciting things that they're building. So I wouldn't pretend to know what's going to happen on a geopolitical scale. I just know what's happening on an innovative scale. And it's wonderful and mind blowing and gives me a lot of hope.
- [46:38]
A
Say more about the innovations I know you've reported on, like how AI is likely to impact healthcare, for example.
- [46:44]
B
Well, you know, so AI and computing. So one thing we haven't discussed yet is quantum mechanics and quantum computing, which, you know, and then you talk about the quantum reality starting to get into Marvel comics, but. And it's on it. And quite frankly, it's still hard for me to get my head around it because I, I grew up with your classical physics of the atom and the electron spinning around the nucleus and all that stuff. And quantum mechanics takes you into the subatomic realm where things are smaller than the atom and they don't really move around in a circular orbit. Things move around in waves and sometimes they can get entangled with each other and there's more of a gray area than there is a black and white instead of zeros and ones like you have in the digital computing. Quantum computing, it's more of a gray area. And so if we can figure that part out that gets our computing power to grow exponentially. I mean, the amount of problems that quantum computers are going to be able to solve is absolutely mind blowing. And from breaking from developing bespoke drugs based on your genetic code to curing cancer, that's all going to come about with the combination of our artificial intelligence and the use of quantum computers. So the AI is exploding now exponentially, obviously. And we had to get this book out because it's going to soon beg for an update on the AI chapter. Things are moving so fast. I think all of us are seeing that. But next up is the quantum Computing race. And when we get that figured out and we're getting better at it, we're operational on it, just not at scale. When we become scale on quantum computing, we're going to solve a lot of the things that have been the bane of our existence and our health and our longevity is going to be one of them. So that's a whole other topic of innovations that I'm not a doctor, but the people that have told me about the science part of it and the problems we can solve, that's exciting on a health and well being level as well.
- [49:10]
A
So in sum, when you think about the innovations that we're seeing in terms of energy, information, electricity and infrastructure, you as a dad, it just seems like you feel better about the state of the world that your, your kids are going to be, you know, living their life, in which your kids will be living their lives.
- [49:37]
B
I feel good about the future state of the world. I, I, I look around and I see all sorts of waste and nonsense that's, that's happening now. And, and we can't rest on our laurels as citizens and think, okay, well these geniuses that are figuring out all these shortcuts is going to be our way to the future. We still all have to do our part and we still have to all be conservative. We can't go back to the cowboy economy of just wasting things away and being completely consumption driven. Turn off the lights when you leave the room, recycle when you can. Now on a side note, recycling is frustrating to me. So frustrating to me because so little of what we think is being recycled is actually being recycled. And there's a myriad of levels of problems as to why that is. It's not because there's mean people who want the environment to be dirty. It's just, it's economic. It's about the assembly line process, it's about the manpower. AI will help us in the recycling realm as well in eliminating the costs that are involved right now in physically separating things that need to be recycled and such. But our, but our use of plastics and our lack of being able to recycle plastics efficiently is frustrating to me right now. It will continue to be frustrating, I think, for the years to come until we figure out a way there. And I like to believe that brilliant minds are looking for a way to have, have our use of plastics and things that aren't great for the environment to get those recycled in a proper way. So I'm excited for the future, I'm optimistic for the future. I think we've got still a long way to go. This is not going to happen today, it's not going to happen tomorrow, may not happen in the next 10 years, but it's coming slowly but surely. But I think it's important for us all to do our part. And I can tell you this, Dan, because I know you're the enlightened one and I still striving for that, is that I still, even though I know that not everything that I put in that recycling bin is going to eventually get recycled, some of it will be thrown into a landfill for various reasons, it still makes me feel good and it still makes me feel like I'm doing my part as a citizen to the world and that makes me sleep better at night. And if we can all think that way and act that way, it's going to get cleaner without us even having to rely on the geniuses that are working on new stuff.
- [52:14]
A
One of the expressions that we use a lot in the show is action absorbs anxiety. And I think what you're describing with recycling definitely fits the bill. Before I let you go, Dr. Marciano, can you just remind everybody of the name of your book and where else can we find you? Cbs, for example.
- [52:33]
B
Oh, yeah, I'm now at, I'm at cbs. As you know, we used to be at ABC together, but once you left, I didn't feel like there was a reason to be there. So I'm now at CBS doing my day job, which is as their meteorologist. So my expertise, if you will, is weather and sciences of the atmosphere. The name of the book is the Next Big Thing. You can see that poster my sister made. So I'm putting it to use back there. Innovations for a Better, Smarter and Stronger Tomorrow, published with Nat Geo. So what does that tell you? It's got pictures. You know, my friends know I'm not going to read or write a book that doesn't have pictures. So it's got pictures, it's got great illustrations. It's a how things work in everyday life, how they were developed by the brilliant minds of our past and what the brilliant minds of our present are doing to give us the next great innovations of the future. And it's, it's available at all your favorite local booksellers, including, including, of course, Amazon, which will get it to you in a hurry, in time for birthdays, holidays, Father's days, you name it, it's available to you. And you don't have to read it all in one sitting. You know, it's one of those things you kind of go back to and and just let hang around and when you're curious about something, go and do it. And curiosity is what drove me to write it and I hope curiosity is what drives people to buy it and read it and engulf themselves into the wonders of science and engineering and all that's going to take us into the future.
- [54:06]
A
Robert Marciano, the Martian of CBS News and author of the Next Big Innovations for a Better, Smarter, Stronger Tomorrow. My brother, great to see you. Thanks for doing this.
- [54:19]
B
Great to be with you. Dan. Good to see you and I really appreciate it. Love you brother.
- [54:24]
A
Thank you so much to everybody who works so hard to make this show. 10% happier is produced by Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasily. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer, Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer, DJ Cashmere is our executive producer and Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme. Also, one last thing before I let you go here Starting starting Sunday, July 12 at 4pm Eastern, the summer Sunday Live series premieres. Join legendary teacher Sharon Salzberg for an eight week deep dive into the Buddha's Cookbook for human happiness, the Eightfold Path. You'll experience live meditation and Q and A only on the 10% with Dan Harris app. Go to danharris.com to start your free trial today. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary. You want to get your backyard summer ready, but you don't want to break the bank. Wayfair gets it.
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