← 10% Happier with Dan Harris
10% Happier with Dan Harris
Your Mind Gets Stuck In Four Ways — Here's How To Break Free | Pascal Auclair
01:05:57
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- [00:04]
A
Hey, gang. Welcome to the 10% Happier podcast. I'm your host, Dan Harris. Today we're talking about one of the Buddha's lists. As you may know, the Buddha was an obsessive list maker. In his quest to help us upgrade our minds, he made all sorts of lists. The Four Noble Truths, the Seven Factors of Enlightenment. I could go on. Today we are specifically talking about a list called the Four Kinds of Clinging. These are ways in which our minds get caught. So we're going to talk about these four ways in which we get embroiled or caught up or entangled, and then some ways to unhook. My guest is the great dharma teacher, Pascal Auclair, who's been on this show before, and he has been studying and practicing Buddhism since 1997. So he's been at this for a minute. He's also a co founder and guiding teacher of True North Insight, Pascal Auclair. Coming up, a few things before we hear from our sponsors. If you haven't already checked out my newish meditation app, 10% with Dan Harris, I would love for you to do so. Many people fall prey to the myth that taking care of yourself is somehow self indulgent. One of the big aims of this app is to disprove that, to make the argument that actually taking care of yourself is a public service. As I sometimes say, there's a geopolitical case for you to get your shit together because it unlocks an upward spiral. The more you work with your own mind, the more you train your mind, the better you will be in your relationships with anybody who crosses your path. And that in turn will make you even happier. And then your relationships will improve even further. And up you go. The whole point of this app is to walk you through the unlocking of this upward spiral. If you sign up, you'll get ad free versions of this podcast. You'll get a growing library of meditations from many of the world's greatest teachers, a growing library of courses from many of those same teachers. And we do weekly live video sessions where we meditate together. It's a chance for you to be able to ask your questions of me and many of our teachers as well. The idea there being that habit change science, the research into what it takes to form and maintain habits, shows that social support, in other words, doing it in the carpool lane, is a great way to boot up and maintain a habit. I know I said a lot, but I do hope you'll come check it out. You can sign up@danharris.com Again, that's danharris.com There's a free 14 day trial if you want to check it out before you spend any money. We'll be right back after this. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. For some people, summer is their favorite season. Travel picks up, kids are out of school, and adventure is the focus. For others, juggling it all can be tough and can lead to overwhelm and and counting down the minutes until the kids are back in school. Many people worry they're wasting the days of sunshine not feeling at their best. I get it actually. Historically, summer has been a time where my depression would come back and then I would feel guilty about not enjoying all the goodness of summer, which can lead to a kind of downward spiral. Therapy can be a great way to help you better understand what your needs are, to feel more confident about setting boundaries, to create a version of summer that actually feels good for you. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the us you don't have to say yes to everything this summer, find support in therapy, sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com happier that's betterhelp.com/happier. Speaking as a small business owner, I hate the thought of losing customers, of letting them slip through the cracks. If you're a small business owner or considering becoming one, that may strike fear in your heart as well. One of the best ways to let customers slip away is missed calls, follow ups that never happened. They add up fast. And that's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo spelled Quo, the business communication system built so you never miss a call. Your entire team can handle calls and texts from one shared number, so no more missed messages or dropped conversations. Everybody sees the full thread, replies are faster and customers actually feel taken care of. This is something we think about a lot on our team, how to make sure that our customers are taken care of and we are crowdsourcing all of the security solutions we need to come up with when we've got a customer issue that's been raised. Quo works wherever you are, right from your phone or computer. Keep your existing number, add teammates in minutes, sync your CRM and let the call routing handle itself as you scale, money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try quo for free plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to quo.com happier. That's Q U O. Pascal AU Claire. Welcome back to the show.
- [05:29]
B
Hey, Dan. So good to see you and hear you. Happy to be back.
- [05:34]
A
It's great to see and hear you always. Yeah. Before we dive in, like, how you doing? What's new?
- [05:39]
B
I'm good. I'm good. Well, what's new? Nothing's new. New, same old. Five aggregates, same old Body sensations. Sounds going around and. Yeah, now maybe deepening of practice. I'm surprised at this. I shouldn't be, you know, but very slowly. I'm a slow learner, but I think I can see that I'm making progress every year. So these teachings are kind of getting slowly integrated more and more every month. And it feels good. It's good. Do you feel the same?
- [06:19]
A
Well, episodically, I feel like some progress, but sometimes I feel the opposite of progress. You know, this conversation where you're talking about the fact that. Whoa, look like I'm actually. It's penetrating my thick skull, these Buddhist teachings that it's nice to see that. It reminds me, I got a question recently from one of the subscribers to my app who was joking about the fact that she hears me say the same shit all the time. Like, I'm just constantly saying the same things, and so are all of the teachers on the app and on this show. And yet she says every time she hears it, even though she can predict what we're about to say, she's glad we're saying it because she needs to hear it again. Because we just forget over and over and over. There's something about the human mind where we can take in wisdom via a podcast, a book, a meditation retreat, whatever. And it just, you know, we just. The next day, we're sucked back into TikTok. And so that. That's what's coming up in my mind as I listen to you talk very gingerly about your progress.
- [07:23]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We need to hear this stuff a lot. It sinks in very, very slowly. And every time we hear it, we've never heard it now before. You know, it's always like news because it's. You know, we hear it now in this context, in this situation with this mind states of. So, yeah, I'm exactly like you. I keep repeating myself. I know everything Joseph Goldstein is going to say. He says a couple of words that I know the whole next 10 minutes, and yet it's good to hear it, to make it known now. Just now, this time.
- [07:58]
A
Yes. And what I believe you're saying is that if we stick with it as you have since 1997. Good things might happen.
- [08:08]
B
Yeah, yeah. And I, like, I was hearing, I don't even remember who was talking about, you know, how it keeps unfolding. Like, how many times have I thought, you know, oh, I understand. What is mindfulness now? Now I understand. I've been thinking this for 30 years. So it just. And I think it's never going to end. And somebody was saying, you know, this thing about the Buddha reaching enlightenment that's very kind of patriarchal, kind of orgasmic man, orgasm, you know, like, I think it's going to be very different. I think it's going to keep opening all the time. The. The meaning of things, the nuances, you know, that's the impermanence there at play.
- [08:48]
A
Like a flower that just keeps blooming to new levels over and over.
- [08:52]
B
Yeah, we'll see. We'll see.
- [08:54]
A
You mentioned right at the top, when I said, how you doing? You said, same old body, same old five aggregates. Just for people who don't know what the five aggregates are. You don't have to give a whole discourse, but just. Just in case anybody bumped on that. What are you referring to there?
- [09:08]
B
Well, first, I was referring to a prior conversation we had a few years ago on the five aggregates, because we did a whole podcast on that. So I was remembering this as I was seeing you. And five aggregates is one of the teachings from the Buddha, one of the lists, as you mentioned, and it's a division of the human experience in two parts. We could divide human experience into two parts. Maybe we could say, oh, there's the bodily stuff and there's the mental stuff. Well, the Buddha divided the human experience in many ways, in six, six senses, in 32 parts of the body, but also in five aggregates, five aspects of our experience in which we get often caught tight around or upset about or confused about. And yeah, that podcast, I think might still be available. It's good stuff.
- [10:02]
A
It is available. And I'll drop a link in the show notes. People should go listen to it. You just said the five aggregates are five ways in which we get caught. I described the four. The list that we're going to talk about today, the four kinds of clinging as four ways in which we get caught. So what is the difference?
- [10:20]
B
We get caught in so many ways, we get obsessed in so many ways, we get worked up in so many ways that the Buddha offered many different lists, and these are two of them. The one that we're looking at today I like because it seemed to me very Applicable. That's what I like about it, you know, when. What I do mostly is teach. Retreat. People come on retreat, and often I want to give this teaching at the end of the retreat because I know people are going back home and this is what they're going to meet tomorrow during the week at work, in family life, you know, at home, in relationships. So I like that list because to me, it's very, very applicable. The 5 aggregates is deep stuff. It's good stuff, as deep as what we're going to see today, but maybe more, a little bit harder to understand. The five ways we. The four ways we cling. What we're talking about today, I think is very applicable. People will recognize this. I think as soon as we'll mention the different aspects, people will. Oh, yeah, I know that. I know that really well.
- [11:28]
A
Okay, well, let's do. Let's dive in. Let's march through the list. The first way, the first again, of four ways in which we cling. The first entry on this list is Sense Pleasure Clinging. I think that's probably obvious, but unpack it, please.
- [11:44]
B
Yeah. First, there's a recognition in here that we are sensitive beings. We have senses, so we are constantly touched. We're constantly receiving some data at the sense doors. We see things, we hear things, we feel things, sensations in the. We smell, we taste things, and we have emotions and thoughts. And so there's constantly some stimuli happening at the sense doors. And the human nature is made in such a way that we're sensitive. It's not just a sound, it's not just a smell. It's a pleasant smell. It's an unpleasant smell. It's a good idea. It's an idea that brings fear. It's an unpleasant idea. It's something we love seeing. It's something we find ugly. So we're sensitive in a very, very nuanced way. And so being sensitive as we are, it makes total sense that when something is pleasant, something heard, somebody says, something you want to hear, you're like, oh, Dan, you're so amazing. Pascal, you're so. It's amazing what you just did. It feels good. And so it's very natural that we would tend to favor that. And that's where this verb comes in, this very important verb. Clinging. What is clinging? It's kind of. It means, you know, grasping. It means being thirsty for. So we want to see beautiful things. We want them to stay. We want to hear beautiful things. It feels good, so. And the way we're not so well made, I think the Way, we're very defective human beings. And, you know, I'm presenting all this, and I would like the listener to really consider, is that true for me? Do I recognize something? Like, I want us to bring our full intelligence here and check this out and just see for ourselves, do I recognize something in there or not? And so what happens is when something is beautiful happens for us. The way our mind is kind of defective is that instead of just rejoicing, you would think it would be obvious, you know, we would enjoy, appreciate, you know, get fed, nourished by beauty, you know, but often it's not what happens. Often what we do is we get a little uptight, you know, like, we want to keep, we don't want to lose. We want more of. We start kind of, don't touch this. This is mine. Now I want to keep. We start to fear, will I lose this? Will I be able to maintain this? And so this is the kind of the thing that happened that makes it difficult for human beings to experience pleasure, because then we start to project, anticipate, and fear and get anxious. This is so weird. Now, you would think we could just appreciate stuff, but I don't know. Do you recognize something in there for yourself, Dan?
- [14:46]
A
Dude. Yeah, of course. I mean, the Buddha was really articulate about this, unsurprisingly, but he. He was not anti pleasure, at least the way I understand it. But he was saying that there is, you know, this way lies danger. I believe he described it to. And this is kind of a vivid simile, but he described it. He said it's like licking honey from the. The edge of a razor. So, yeah, like, the honey can taste good, but it's. It's tricky. And it just reminds me, and this is a story as old as time, but I was interviewing last night a. A guy named Jet Li, who was a huge martial arts movie star, especially in the 90s. And he had everything. He. He had been a champion Chinese martial artist, and then he became a movie star. He got super rich and he just, like, it was never enough. I mean, by the way, this is, as you know, the Buddha story himself. Like, he was a. A wealthy prince and had everything, but it was not enough. He was still unhappy. And I think that's the razor that lurks under the honey.
- [15:52]
B
Yeah, yeah. And you're so right to say, like, the problem is not the fact that things are pleasurable or can be or sometimes are. It's really what we're. And the list here looks at clinging. So that's what I find Beautiful about this teaching is that it's asking us, like, is there another way to relate to this? Is there another way than clinging? And that's what we call maybe practice, meditative practice or mindfulness is that by encountering pleasure and becoming aware of our relationship to it, we can learn to react differently, to respond differently to what is pleasurable. And maybe learn to relax and feel and recognize. Wow, this is good. This feels good. This is beautiful, this meeting of these people. Ton we got together, we're having fun. To really enjoy it and be able to actually soak it, to be really nourished by beauty. And when I teach meditation on retreat, I invite people to go do walking meditation outside. And I say, like, you know, notice. We're often in retreats. We're in beautiful nature, you know, countryside. And I invite people to actually notice beauty and see what the mind can do. Sometimes I go, oh, I need to move to the country. And why does. I don't come so often? I should come more often. And so this will kind of create turbulence in the mind. But there's another way possible. There's another way where there's a way to be kind of conscious about what's happening. Oh, there's this experience of beauty now, of meaning, of richness, of preciousness. Something precious is happening. Let me actually be intimate with that. Be there. Instead of kind of projecting, anticipating it will end. Just be there. Be there. And I think that one thing that really helps with this is the kind of. In a way, the bad news is that I think it can be helpful if we know very, very deeply that all these things, all these pleasures at the different sense doors are by nature ephemeral. It's their nature to come and go. The more we know this, the less we will cling. I wanted to state, no, I know it won't stay. That's not in its nature. That's not what it does. But it can arise and be felt. And actually, in a way, I think of it as nourishing for the soul. You know, nourishing. So, yeah, we can lick the honey, but there's an angle. You have to lick it up to not cut yourself on the razor.
- [18:34]
A
Well, okay, drill down on that very specifically. If somebody's listening to this and thinking, okay, well, how can I enjoy the many pleasures of being alive? A beautiful day or maybe a rainy day. But I like a rainy day or a great meal or a great social encounter. How can I enjoy it without clinging and thereby ruining it?
- [18:58]
B
To me, the solution lies in what we call and you've heard so much about everyone listening. Mindfulness. So mindfulness is that quality of presence that is not trying to acquire or keep anything. It's a qualitative presence that is marked, characterized by curiosity, by. It's very candid. It has candidness to it. You know, it's fresh. It has freshness to it. Oh, what is that? What is that? What is beauty? You know, not. I love beauty. I want to keep like, what is the experience of beauty? To me, the way out of the trouble is that kind of presence that is really curious about what is happening. Wow. Human beings are sensitive and they get sometimes to experience beauty as it's happening. I want to be curious about it. What is that beauty? What is that meaning? What is that preciousness? So to kind of bring extra attention, like a very generous presence to what is happening, as if you didn't know what it was. That's the kind of beginner's mind, a don't know mind. Instead of like, wanting to acquire, like, I like this, I want the recipe for this. How can I. Like what is. What is. What is deliciousness? What is what I call delicious. So it. You see, like this brings the attention in the event, in the like. The mindfulness is like the water going in a sponge. The way I would say to play with this is to try to see if I can come closer to this, if I can really experience this. Not just like, keep it going, but really know it in an intimate way. So to me, that's one of the way out of trouble around. This is to come close, to enter into, to embrace, to dive in.
- [20:54]
A
In essence, use your ability to pay attention. Use the innate curiosity we all have to savor experiences like a brownie or a great conversation with a friend at a party without toppling forward into the next thing or wondering how we can make this last or what we can. How. How can I get another brownie? Whatever. And, and, and the mind will wander. Of course. You'll. Those. Those thoughts will still come up. But can you bring your attention consistently and gently back to what's happening right now as a way to be with it without the clinging?
- [21:36]
B
Yeah. So very, very. I think of it as very, very vertical. It's very immediate. It's not timeline, you know, like always. Like watermelon. I wish there will be watermelon this summer. But it becomes very, very vertical. And that's what we call practice. That's what you know, that's the aspect of mindfulness I hear you bring forward here. It's Very, very immediate. And what I like about it also is that. And it's so rich, things become palpable. It makes whatever is pleasurable even more pleasurable. Because we dive under concept. It's not the idea that I like that. I like that kind of music. I like that kind of situation. It invites me to dive in. It's really like the rock going down at the bottom of the ocean, you know, instead of the cork that stays at the. You know, floating on top of the water, like, oh, I love this. I like. No, it's much more like. It requires a lot of attention. It requires a diving underneath ideas, you know, to really experience. And there's a freedom in that because there's a freshness in this. I'm freed from my thoughts. I'm freed from my tendency to grasp and cling. I get to actually fully experience. And in mindfulness, I think, in its most pure version. And it can be just a second. I don't mind, you know, but when it's real mindfulness, the timeline drops. I'm sorry, but there's no timeline in mindfulness. When I'm really there with something, it's just now. It's just now. There's no. It's not conceived in the way of a timeline. It's just this is the experience. I'm fully there for it. And the next moment, then we don't know what's going to happen. There might not be mindfulness. There might be habits of mind, of clinging, of course.
- [23:29]
A
And in those moments when the mind swoops in and puts you back into the conventional timeline and the wanting of more and whatever, it's just about starting again and again and again.
- [23:41]
B
Yeah. And noticing the kind of ouch or that we're caught again in like clinging, anxiety, fear of losing, which is absolutely natural. So, so natural. I would. Talking to the listener here. I don't want anybody to blame themselves for clinging, for getting tight around pleasure or displeasure, by the way. It's so natural. Very, very natural yet. And that's the whole path of the Buddha, as I understand it. It's somebody who's saying, thinking there must be another way. There must be another way to relate to this that my mind won't get. Get upset or fixated, you know. Plus, I would say also, Dan, that there's a kind of particular joy that I think of as vipassana joy or insight joy or meditation joy. Is that when we. Like now we're going to talk about, you know, for like an hour or so about clinging the mind that, you know, gets hooked up on, you know, take up something and obsess about it, and we hear about it for all this time, and then we go back to life, and there's a cling, particular kind of joy that comes up. That is the joy of seeing when we get caught. You know, when the mind clings. We're going to talk about these four kinds of clinging. And then tomorrow you'll see one of them, and you'll go like, oh, I got one. This is clinging. This is exactly. So the joy of seeing the teaching unfold, you know, so I cling all the time, all day long. I cling to all kinds of things. But when I get to see it, I'm like, oh, Pascal, you just clung to. This was pleasurable, and you clung to it, or this was unpleasurable. And now, you know, life has stopped. You know, there's just this. Just this thing that was said that I didn't like, and the whole dynamism of life has stopped. Now I'm focused on this, and the whole world has stopped. And I'm going to, you know, chew on that bone for a while, you know, and then I can say, oh, Pascal, look at this. It's exactly as it's told in the Dharma, in the teachings. You know, this happens. Of course.
- [25:45]
A
Yeah. Seeing how ridiculous the mind is is one of the many Dharma delicacies for sure. And I want to underline one of the things that Pascal's saying here, which is that it is very helpful when looking at the more noxious tendencies of the mind to have a sense of humor, to be playful. And you can hear this coming through not only in Pascal's words, but in the way in which he says those words. There's a. There's a real sense of humor. The eyes are gleaming. And I have just found that maintaining that attitude has been essential. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who's much younger than me. She was thinking a lot about how to keep her brain sharp. And so she was getting back into meditation. She was taking piano lessons again, and she was learning a new language. Which brings me to one of our sponsors today, Rosetta Stone. Many of us have tried learning another language before, maybe Spanish in high school or a few phrases for a trip. But when it's time to actually use those skills, we realize that just knowing a few words is not the same as a real conversation. Rosetta Stone's Sapphire is a major new release in language learning. Combining Rosetta Stone's trusted immersion method with the latest innovations in education technology to help you go from knowing phrases to speaking confidently about the topics you care about. I was not the greatest student, but one of the things I always loved was learning a new language. And I love the approach that Rosetta Stone takes. They're not one size fits all. Most language apps teach the same generic topics. Sapphire helps you focus on what you actually want to talk about. If you want to take your language skills to the next level, don't wait to try Rosetta Stone Sapphire 10% Happier Listeners can get 20% off their Rosetta Stone Sapphire subscription when they sign up today. You'll get unlimited access to all 25 Rosetta Stone languages, plus all the new Sapphire learning tools. Visit Rosetta Stone.com happier to redeem your 20% off. That's RosettaStone.com happier and start learning a language for real. We are big fans of Wayfair. At my house we've got lots of Wayfair stuff both inside and outside. This is the time of year though where you may be specifically looking to gussy up your outdoor space. It's very important that space feel like you. Wayfair is your one stop shop for home outdoor seating, grills, major appliances, storage, patio lighting, rugs, decor, installation and assembly services are available for a truly seamless experience. With over 20 million 5 star reviews, you can hear from real customers before you buy. I have been on the Wayfair website many, many times. Their selection really is extraordinary and my wife, who is the person in our household who actually has good taste, has made some really cool selections from the vast Wayfair library of merchandise. Patio season is here and these deals won't last. Head to Wayfair.com right now to get your outdoor space ready for way less. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. Okay, so we've talked about the first type of clinging, clinging to sense pleasures. The second is clinging to view. What does that mean? Clinging to view.
- [29:05]
B
Cling to views, to points of views, to the way we understand the world to be. So you can see this maybe on the bigger scene, you know, the international scene, you know, views, spiritual views. So this can be very charged. I don't know when you hear this how it land in you, but for me I see like my, you know, the Buddha talks about something like that our views and opinions should lead to calm and clarity. And when I hear this it makes me laugh because my views and opinions usually lead me to be agitated and not worked up in all kinds of ways, you know, So I can see that I have a lot of work to do around the views and opinions around that especially. And that's a particular aspect of this that the Buddha highlights. And I'm so, so thankful for this. He says it's cling to any view. Right view, helpful view, unhelpful view, confused views is going to be painful, but clinging to wrong views is even more painful. And right in there. There's a few suggestions of things that we could look at tendencies that we have, you know, wrongly understanding what is happening, the nature of reality, and I can name a few if you want, please. Well, the most classic wrong view that we cling to. So we tend to project on things, permanence. So the wrong view of permanency, solidity, stability. So we tend to very easily, our mind will make something permanent. You know, I feel like shit. I'm going to feel like shit for the rest of my life, you know, I succeeded, it should continue or I'm great, I'm great forever, or, you know, this is good, this is a nice place. It's going to be nice forever. This is a good situation. It's going to be forever. This is bad, it's going to stay like this. So our mind, the tendency to make things permanent, solid in this way, and we don't question this, we just view this as reality. So that's a type of clinging we buy into. We adhere to this view. At some point, we have a little bit of a shock, we could say, because something falls apart, a relationship, a situation, something start to not be. So we give it less value. Suddenly it changes, it changes in some ways. And so clinging to permanence, the view of permanence, the Buddha seems to say, that's going to make things really painful when, you know, suddenly the aging starts to show in the face or health goes, you know, and often we are in shock, you know, we. We can't believe that this thing suddenly disappears or is starting to crack, crumble, you know, and we're very shocked, but we shouldn't be because it's in the nature of things to be. So there's a lot of practice here to recognize that, to let go of that, of clinging, adhering to that view.
- [32:29]
A
Okay, so that's one kind of wrong view. The view of impermanence, are there others that we should be on the lookout for?
- [32:37]
B
Another one is the view of satisfying. That's very tr. The view of, like when we project on something, when we perceive in something satisfaction, like complete satisfaction, where there's no nuance. You know, we don't think it can be slightly defective or unstable or changing. And we do this, you know, we'll be just on the Internet and we'll see a little something somewhere and we'll, oh, my God, I need to get that. You know, that's what Amazon lives on, the fact that we project satisfaction. And what's the actual experience? You actually get the thing the next day in the mail, you open the box and you're like, oh, okay, well, that might be useful, but it's not what I projected what I thought it was. And so we can be awake to this. We can be not so duped, not so fooled by that, and learn by paying attention, we can learn that things are not exactly as what we project on them. And it made me laugh because I was listening to somebody saying, when I return an article that I bought online, and they say sometimes I don't know if they still do. But why are you returning this? They're like, well, I was drunk last night, feeling lonely at home, and I bought a bunch of things trying to solve my problem. And yeah, now I'm not so drunk anymore. And I can see it's not that satisfying. And it seems like bad news. I'm saying things are unsatisfactory and it would be good to see this for what it is. It seems like bad news, but actually, when you're free from that kind of allure that you tend to put on things and that a lot of corporate stuff is trying to have us buy into the idea of satisfaction with things, when we're freed from this, it feels so good. There's so much joy that we have access to. There's so much freedom. So when I say things can't satisfy us completely, relationship can't. Come on, let's be honest. And in any situation in career camp and you see people, some of the richest people in the world, they look miserable, they got everything they want, but they're not happy. And so we can be aware of this and not cling to the idea of satisfaction and in this way gain into joy and peace and inner freedom. It's a lot of good news in there.
- [35:37]
A
We're talking about the second way of clinging, which is clinging to views. We talked a little bit about the kind of wrong views that can be particularly painful to cling to. But if we think about clinging to view writ large as a way in which we suffer, what is the antidote, practically? Where is the good news?
- [35:59]
B
Yeah, with every one of these ways of clinging, I would Think that I would like to suggest that becoming aware of how we're holding, how we're holding pleasure, how we're holding this pleasure, how we're meeting or holding a view can be really helpful. So to know that I might have views about what's happening in the world, about. About different conflicts that are happening in the world or things that I care a lot about for my society, injustice and this, and I can get all worked up if I cling to these things in an obsessive way. I'm going to lose sleep, I'm going to lose appetite, I'm going to lose hope, I'm going to lose vision, I'm going to get depleted in all kinds of ways. And this might be another way to hold these views with care, with clarity. I find inspiration in the Buddha. The Buddha had a lot of views. He spent 45 years sharing his views about stuff, you know, but he was not clinging to them. He was not getting upset about them. And so the way to work with this, I think, is to actually notice. Oh, oh, Pascal, my love, you're getting all worked up about this. You're really very, very engaged with this. Is there a way to maybe come back to the body, to feel the body breathing here, to maybe notice something else, you know, notice what's happening around the space around. There's things around and do a little bit of a titration, you know, like instead of fixation, you know, to relax a bit. And to me, one of the ways I'll think about this is to think, is this the way I hold this? Is this leading me to freedom? Is this leading me to ease? Is this leading me to engage? Or is this making me, you know, all worked up so that I'll be depleted later, you know, so to actually take note of the mind state, the way I'm relating to this, you know, and bringing curiosity. I like that question, is there another way to hold this? And I might be doing this in the middle of a conversation, you know, I'm with somebody and I want to speak over them, to convince them of something, because I have a view about this. And if I notice this, Pascal, is there another way, you know, and then I can relax my body, find my breath again, maybe hear the other person. And usually I find myself more intelligent because I have access to more information of what's going on. I'm a little bit more relaxed maybe, so that my mind is more flexible. I can actually engage with the person at the right level instead of trying to kind of force or, you know, Control the other's point of view. You know, I can actually listen. Maybe I'll hear some nuances that I haven't considered, you know, maybe I'll get interested in the person. And it seems like suddenly it's possible, there's possibilities, it's another field, you know, so I'll leave, in a way, conflict, you know, and so becoming aware of myself, my mind, state my body, and then I can, you know, reorient. It's possible the minds have that capacity to re. We are not stuck with our mind states. You know, there's a possibility when we become conscious to say, hey, there might be another way to go about this. Let's try. Let's try. Maybe I'll ask a question to the person, I'll get interested in their point of view, you know, and I'll see what thread we can bring here or make or something like this.
- [39:49]
A
It's such good news that we can change the channel in our minds. No question about it. It. That said, we live, as everybody knows, in the middle of a. In what a friend of mine has called a pandemic of certainty. A lot of people in this polarized environment find it threatening to say that we shouldn't be so attached to our views because the stakes seem so high. You know, all of the fears about AI possible authoritarian slide on and on. And I'm referring specifically there to the United States. What say you to folks who have that concern of like, yo, don't tell me to ease up on my views. Like, my views are really important and righteous here.
- [40:35]
B
Yeah, everyone will, you know, do what they want with this, you know, so I'm totally okay with somebody not agreeing with any of this and deciding to keep clinging to their views. That's an absolute possibility. I think that I come back to this same phrase here. I'm sorry, but it's like, there might be another way. So I see some people who are activists are fighting for things they value. And I can see that some of them are able to do this with vision, led by love, led by clarity. And they can engage a lot of energy, a lot of time, but it's not in hatred. It's not in closing down. You know, I was hearing somebody recently were saying, I'm gonna keep speaking up because I know we can do better. And I thought, this is so beautiful. It's not like you other people. You're so wrong and I hate you, and you're. You know, it's like there's vision, there's beauty in this. I don't know if somebody would make the difference between the two. I do. To me, I want to go about things like this with vision, with clarity, with love, with creativity. I don't want to be eaten up inside by something. I want to. Yeah. And so I think that not clinging to a view doesn't mean that we're not going to engage a lot of energy into something that we care about, but it's a different way to go about it. And again, the Buddha taught for 45 years. It's not like he said, oh, I'm not going to cling to anything and just stay under a tree. He engaged in conversation with people who didn't agree with him, but he seemed to be saying all the time, I will never quarrel. I will never hate somebody. I will never cling to view. I will have exchanges. I will spend a lot of time explaining my views. But, yeah, so it's for everyone to see what's possible here.
- [42:48]
A
I have found personally that being open to other points of view as it pertains to our current domestic political scene here in the United States or on global issues like AI being open to other points of view is, and this is a little counterintuitive and again, maybe idiosyncratic, it's calming in some ways, because I don't feel so locked in on one one point of certainty. Okay, let's talk about the third way of clinging in this list of four. And this one, I'm not even sure exactly what's being pointed to here, but it is clinging to rites and rituals. What does that mean?
- [43:34]
B
Yeah, at the time of the Buddha, I wasn't there. So as I heard or understand or it's been described to me, people would have rituals that they would perform, thinking that the ritual themselves would liberate them. So standing on one leg and never putting the second leg on the floor would be a good practice to liberate the mind. Or that it could be all kinds of things, but really about ways to do things and not questioning what's happening in the mind, not questioning nature of reality, for example, but just behaving in a certain way. Yeah. So this is where it seems to start from. And then it goes even further than this. The way I reflect on this, the way it touches me in a kind of contemporary way. When we think about this, to me, is I think of norms clinging to norms clinging to ways of doing things. And, you know, these four aspects, they can be close to one another, they can connect to one another. You know, like, we make four kinds, but they Kind of there's a play between them, you know, because why do we cling sometimes to ways of doing things and norms? Because they're agreeable, they're comfortable for us. So it touches on the first list, the first aspect. Maybe a lot of racism will be based around this. Like the way the norms that are established by a lot of the white people of ways to do things. We see this in. For me, I spend a lot of time in the spiritual realm, in Buddhist realms and retreat centers, and there's. In the west, there's a kind of a white way to do things. And we're not willing to question this. We cling to this. And I remember I was at a conference, and there was a woman who said, what's wrong with you? You don't dance your dharma. And I was like, oh, yeah, look at this. Look at how in that milieu, this is what the Dharma, what the meditation or spiritual practice looks like. And it's not danced. You don't dance it, you know, or you don't sing it with gusto, you know, and so. And I think it can be so enriching for us to question these and, you know, other ways that I see this is about how to do things. Like at work, for example. Oh, no, that's not how to do this. The step one is this. The step two is, you know, like, it's as if there's no space for creative creativity or how to raise a kid. You have kids, you'll know what I'm talking about. People will tell you, this is the way to raise a kid. This is the way to. I do that sometimes. I have this in my house with my partner. It's like, we start to make a meal, and I'm like, no, the onions go first. That's why I want to bring this list here today, because I think it's very applicable. I'm like, oh, why do I suffer in my relationship? Because I cling to rites and rituals. I cling to the way we're going to do this meal. And I don't seem to care about the relationship for a few moments here. I care about the way, the order of the vegetables going in the pan. And I'm miserable, and I make the other miserable. And there's another way. There's another way. And becoming aware of this, I'm like, oh, maybe I can let go a bit of my, you know, clinging to ways of doing things here, and maybe I'll find some joy and connection. You know, there's so many ways. This is applicable in my mind. You know, that's a very rich field.
- [47:32]
A
Do you think I should start telling my wife that she should stand on
- [47:34]
B
one leg if she puts the onions first before the meal?
- [47:42]
A
I don't think any of that would go over well in my house. Yeah. No, I think I, I, I like this a lot, and especially as it pertains to an organization. I say this as a small business owner. Like the the most dangerous phrase is yeah, but we've always done it this way. And that kind of calcification can be like the the enemy of of growth. Summer always changes how I get dressed. This is, I'm pretty sure, true for you as well. I, speaking personally, want pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. Things that are easy but still look good. And that is why I keep coming back to Quint's. They focus on high quality essentials that look and feel amazing. Think breathable linen and soft organic cotton. Well made basics but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still effortless. Quint's European linen pants and shirts are the perfect warmth weather upgrade to add to your rotation, starting at just $34. Their tees are soft and easy to wear and their lightweight cotton sweaters are perfect for those cooler summer nights. Everything at quints is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup. You've heard me talk about Quints before. They're a longtime supporter of this show, for which I'm grateful. I'm actually looking down as I read this ad copy. I'm looking down over my desk. I can see my feet and I've got Quint's socks on at this very moment. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quint.com happier for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com happier for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com Quinn Happier I'm a very hard person to buy gifts for. Very it's very frustrating sometimes for my wife, but she found this website recently, Zazzle. It's a custom marketplace where you can take basically any product, a mug, a tote bag, a card, a phone case and make it mean something. So she has been working on personalized stationery for me. I like to send a handwritten note once in a while and now I'm Going to have stationery that has my name on it and some other stationery that just says 10% happier. And I'm very excited about this. I actually have a couple of notes I've been meaning to write for a while. I'm going to wait until my Zazzle personalized stationery arrives at our front door. With Zazzle, you're not buying a gift, you're actually making one. You could browse millions of designs or start from scratch and build something completely your own. Either way, you are the designer. I know from my wife, who's a discerning customer, that she has enjoyed being the designer on Zazzle. Everything on Zazzle is made on demand, so there's no out of stock. You pick it, customize it. Done. Over 30 million customers have trusted Zazzle with their most important gifts. Yours is next. Right now, save 25% on your first order at zazzle.com 10happier. That's 25% savings on your first order at zazzlez.com tenhappier Go make something zamazing. Zazzle.com tenhappier. I'm going to move on to the fourth, because this is the biggest, in my opinion, and maybe I'm clinging to view here, but in my opinion, this is the most interesting part of the list. So with your permission, I'm going to move on to the fourth, Fourth way of clinging, which is. It's going to sound a little technical, but it's to self doctrine or just clinging to the self. Please hold forth.
- [51:28]
B
I love that. Fourth aspects of experience, Fourth way of clinging. I love to study this. I find it very, very juicy. I find it very kind of demanding, profound, counterintuitive, and so rich in possibility of freedom and joy and love and compassion. And so it's just the Buddha saying, look, I'm going to add a fourth chapter here. I'm going to give it its own chapter because it's very rich. The Buddha agrees with us, dad, and he's saying, you know, there's a particular way we cling. There's a particular way we fixate. There's a particular way we. We take up something. And it's this very usual habitual, very common way that is identification. When we take something to be me or mine, as soon as we make something me in an absolute way, this is me. The Buddha says, this happens a lot. And a lot of our suffering, trouble and, you know, being away from the experience of freedom lies there in that little movement of mine. And in all these ways, it's interesting to notice that this is a movement of mind we're talking about. Clinging is something that happens in the mind. And it seems like not clinging brings freedom. And so. So what I hear in that is that the freedom lies. The absence of freedom or the freedom lies into some mental activity that is amazing to think of. Like it's something that happens inside of me. It's not something outside. If it's something outside, I'm in deep trouble because it's the outside world that will, you know, define if I'll be free or not. And in these teachings, it says no, it's an internal event, and there's something to do about it. And in that particular aspect here, it's that equating something to be. So something is happening, and I make it mine. I make it me. I make it in me. I view it as inside of me, or I'm inside it. And in. In any of these views, if we made them too solid, not relative, relatively mine, if we make them absolute, we're going to suffer. So, for example, the body. Let's just take this, the body. So the body, if I make mine me, it's me, right away there's going to be, I think, fear of death. Because if this is my body, what's going to happen to it at the time of death? And in spiritual practice or meditative practice or kind of the inquiry we're doing here, we're actually questioning this. And I feel that we're, in a way, we're just bringing back a little sanity here. It's not that far out. It's not esoteric. It's just a simple recognition that this body is made of physical elements. You know, it's made of the stars, you know, it's made of, you know, if we put it in an archaic way, I would say it's made of water, fire, earth and air, you know. And so it's mine. Yes, it's mine, but it's not absolutely mine or me, you know, it's relatively mine. Yes. I want to decide who touches this body. It's mine, you know, in this way. But of course, it came to be. It was offered by nature, made by nature, and will be taken back by nature. And in this way of reflecting, I'm making peace with the world, you know. Oh, yeah, I'm not mistaken, you know. Yeah, of course it came to be. Of course it's subject to disease, you know, there will be disease. Let's not, you know, kind of be in denial here. It will age, you know, the different senses will, you know, lose Their sharpness. You know, in some ways it doesn't have to be a problem, but it's not mine. This face is not exactly mine. You know, it will change. You know, it is actually day by day, you know, there's something natural about this body. It will naturally change and so releasing some of the holding here, some of the equating or appropriating, you know, I have a little cabin in the woods where I go often. It's by a lake and it's a little piece of land just a few hundred feet this way and that way, you know, by the lake. It's my cabin, it's my land. And it's not, you know. You know, a tree can fall on my little cabin, you know, it can burn. At some point something might happen that I'm, you know, I'll have to sell it or, you know, things can happen. And so it's not absolutely mine, it's relatively mine.
- [56:50]
A
I think what you're pointing to here is crucial for people who struggle with this brain breaking Buddhist notion that the self is an illusion. A lot of people, as I often say, like, come to Buddhism for stress release and then just wash up on the rocky shores of non self, as it's often called. And I think what's cr for me, at least, what's crucial, the unlock that allows me to understand this very counterintuitive notion that the self is an illusion. You know, because we live in this world where we build everything around ourselves, you know, like my body, my Instagram page, my career, et cetera, et cetera. The crucial unlock is understanding that it's a paradox. Two things are true at the same time. Your house by that lake is yours legally. But on a deeper level, it's all just a manifestation of nature. And if you took a high powered microscope to the house, you would see that it's not as solid as it seems. It's actually mostly subatomic particles spinning through empty air. And that is, I think, what the Buddha is talking about. How am I doing?
- [58:08]
B
Yes, so true, so right, exactly. The paradox, the kind of two level you could think conventional reality and ultimate reality. Like it's not ultimately mind. So we're just bringing a little nuance in, you know, we're like, hey, honey pie, be careful. Because if you, you totally buy into it, totally, you're gonna suffer. So it's good to bring a little wisdom here. It's not totally yours, you know, and this with the body and physical things and also with the rest. So I teach meditation. I see this all the time, this gradual letting go, it's not even to me. It's like a regular thing that I see all the time. And you know, what happens is. And see if you recognize this. But we start meditating, we go to a first class meditation class or something like this. And it seems like everything is referring back to me. It's my breath, my body, my posture, my mind is agitated. And why is my mind like this and everything. We take everything to be mine. And it doesn't take so much time. A few months of practice. And people report this all the time. They probably don't even notice so much. But I notice because the way they report it, they, they'll say like, oh, I don't make a story so much out of it. The fact that my mind doesn't stay on the object like the breath, for example, I used to make it a really personal thing, but now it's natural that it does that. Pascal, I won't be able to stay on the breath for an hour and a half. It's not possible. So do you see? It's a little bit less personal. It doesn't refer back. It becomes a wider view. It's another vista. I love this. So it's not like, oh, my mind, my thoughts. It's like, oh, there's a lot of thoughts in here. Oh, there's a lot of emotional life happening in this system, you know, and, you know, and yeah, at the beginning I think my breath, and then later I think, oh, the breath is a little, you know, congested or contracted, you know, or the breath is, the breathing is happening easily today, you know, it's not so much referring to me and in an experiential way also. People will be sitting, you know, and, and at the beginning you might feel my hands, my hands are resting on my lap, you know, and at some point, very naturally, you're like, ah, it's just a field of tingling, you know. So it's just a slight different view. It's not suddenly the hand disappeared, you know, but it's experienced slightly differently. Not as the concept, my hand, the idea, my hand, but a little field of heat or a little field of tingling, you know. And it's so beautiful when this. There's some release around emotion because my fear and my agitation and my aversion and my hatred and my impatience and oh, Pascal, there's a lot of impatience. There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of anger running through the system right now. That opening, that not being so fused and identified. And it's so. It really has a taste of freedom and it's not like it's not happening. So it's not the extreme of denial. It's not the extreme of totally identified. It's the middle path of recognizing what is there. Oh, you know, there's a body, it's important to take care of the body, to love the body. There's a mind, it's important to take care of it. And the same with thoughts. You know, at the beginning I'm thinking about this and at some point, like it has a lot of things to say in there. It keeps commenting all the time while I'm meditating. You know, it's not so personal anymore. And you know, joy appears and more ease appears, you know, and less guilt, less shame, less anxiety. The selfing, you know, this activity of owning, appropriating leads to all these things. Guilt, arrogance, shame, greed, hatred. This is, you know, it leads to obsession. That's a direct path to obsession. And I'm so happy these teachings are there and these invitations to go question this because yeah, we're in a world now of like self promotion, self made. I'm self made. And you know, everything I can say like, this is all me saying this. Yeah, it's all me, Pascal saying this. But thank you, Joseph. Thank you, Dan's podcast. Thank you, you know, you know, but like I'm totally related to all the people who have taught me, like I'm not separate in this way. Yeah. So interconnection, less separation in that view, you know, that we can, you know, discover for ourselves. Wooden.
- [63:00]
A
When Marissa, who's producing this episode, reached out to you to ask you to come on the show and to talk to you about being teacher of the month on the 10% app. You, she asked you like, what's up in your practice? Like what's. What are you thinking about the most in your practice? Where are you focused? And you, you mentioned this non self concept as being the thing that, that was really like on your mind. How does it play out in your life where the rubber hits the road?
- [63:31]
B
Practice. So meditation for me is the field of research. It's a very particular field in a way. It's protected environment. You. I can actually go more minute and see what's happening in the mind and the body and see how this clinging happens, how this definition of self happens. So that's in the field of practice. And I'll give you an example just to highlight this before we go to the rubber that hits the road. I heard Your question. But the other day, I think it's a good example of this. Maybe. We'll see. I was teaching in the retreat, you know, and it was the lunchtime break, and I'm lying on the bed and I'm resting my hands on the. So I'm laying down on the bed and my hands are resting like this. I'm just waiting to go back to teach more or sit with people. And I'm sitting there and I was thinking, like, oh, where is this, you know, this identification thing happening? Like, where's the eye? How is the eye happening if it's happening? And then I was like, well, I'm lying down. No, actually, the body is lying down. This is the body that's lying down. But these are my hands. These are my hands, you know. And then I just paid attention a little more, and I was like, no, there's these sensations there, you know, they're not mine exactly, you know. And then I was like, yeah, but this is me. This is my face, you know, and then I stayed there, just attentive to that. I was like, oh, no, there's particular sensations that I felt, you know, like lips sensations and sensations. And I tend to make this mine, you know, but these are just sensations of heat or, you know, and voila. And then I was like, but I'm aware of this. I'm aware of this. And then I just relaxed and stayed there, like. And then there's a. Like, no, this is known. There's a knowing happening. There's a knowing of hands, knowing of breath. This doesn't have to be me, but it still is happening, you know. So this is the field of, you know, exploration, you know, questioning, going underneath the, you know, the preconceived ideas. Like, I think this is my hands. Let's see, what's that? Oh, it's just tingling. That is happening, you know. And so this is the field of research. And then I go back to my life, and then I don't know, you know, somebody's talking and I can't interrupt them because of whatever the situation is, you know, I have to let them talk. And I don't agree, you know, and it's good that I can't stop them because I notice what's happening, you know, And I'm like, you know, I go from they're annoying with their view, you know, this is wrong. This is not the way I want to correct this. This is not true. I want to, like, they're wrong to, oh, my God, I'm very agitated here. I'm very agitated and if I stay with this, oh, there's a lot of agitation here, there's a lot of agitation and then something relaxes in that and then care can arise. That's what I see, you know, either joy, like it's not that important, you know, Know, it's like I don't have to be so identified. They're saying this to me and you know, there's just this happening and there's relaxation, some space can open up, maybe joy or compassion, like, oh, it's a difficult situation, you know. And what I see is the mind can become more creative. It can be more creative and appropriate instead of barging in, you know, or like, it'll be more. It'll remember, it'll remember the values, it will remember respect, it will remember that things are. That I don't have control, you know, that I cannot control the other's view, the other's words, you know, but I can engage. That's a possibility. There might be the possibility of contribution or participating, but not control, you know. And so by just releasing some of the self identification and just recognizing what is happening. So it's not like it changes everything. There's still, you know, the person is still saying what they're saying, but it's not, it's. I'm not like totally fused with this. This is happening to me, about me, referring to me, you know, it's a different vista again, it's a different view. It's not events are not about me for me, referring to me. It's a whole different view. It's, oh, there's a conflict happening or there's something happening that is delicate, you know, somebody saying something that is not agreed upon, you know, so it's a delicate situation. So that's the best I can do with this. Just, just now I want to click
- [68:17]
A
on the practical elements of what you were saying there specifically to build on the investigation you described of lying in bed and you know, just kind of looking for the self. And in the many ways it might instantiate in your mind and then as soon as you look, you see, well, I can't call that self. That I think would make a great meditation. Maybe we'll get you to guide one in that spirit for us on the app. But another practical way to explore this idea of non self until I get it into your molecules in a, in a deeper way, and this is really non esoteric, is just to get better at generosity that you can, you know, if the Buddha talks about letting go, well, generosity Is that.
- [69:10]
B
Yeah, that's so right. And you know what I think immediately about. Because I've been watching the Artemis, the Orient, the astronauts, you know, in April that were flying in the sky, around the moon and stuff. And, and to me it was kind of a whole teaching on not self in this way, because they kept talking about, with. How is it called the overview effect. That's an amazing thing. And they were all kind of reporting on this in different ways, the four astronauts. And seeing. I think it was Christina, one of the astronauts called Christina, she was saying like the kind of the sense of belonging, you know, like, oh, this is like a little raft floating in space, you know, this is. And we're the crew, we belong to each other. You know, like we're. So that's the cutting of the separation. Like we belong to each other. And when they landed at some point, when I think the commander or the Reed, I think his name is, was saying, like, now we belong to each other. I can't remember what was the exact sentence, but we're linked together now forever. You know, there was this understanding that. And what happens is if you watch, you know, as they were going around, there was a lot of joy, there was a lot of love being expressed and a lot of taking care of everyone. You know, suddenly it was not me going around the moon and I did it. It was, we're doing it for us, you know, we need each other. And there was less self and more generosity. There was more love, there was more joy, there was more gratitude. It was releasing all this, the knowing that we belong to each other, that. That we cannot be there just for ourselves here there's a common objective, Christina was saying, of surviving. And we're a little capsule. And this other guy, also this other great astronaut, Victor Clover, I think Clover was saying, we're a capsule, but you're also a capsule on Earth. You belong to each other. So generosity can lead to less selfish and less selfing will lead to more generosity. They kind of play together and gratitude and joy and love. And so they're kind of expressions of each other. If there's less self, there'll be more generosity. And if there's more generosity, it's a really good practical way to let go of self referencing. What about me? Will I have enough? Will I opening up, you know, to the other, to the other's point of view, need, etc. Yeah, I think it's a. It's a beautiful way to, to explore that generosity.
- [72:00]
A
Interesting linguistically that the. In English we talk about selflessness as, as generosity. And in Buddhist, in Buddhism, we talk about selflessness as a reference to the fundamental illusion of the self, but in the end, they're both pointing to the same thing. I do want to say in closing, that's just always such a pleasure to talk to you. You do such a great job of explaining the dharma. Thank you for. Yeah, thanks for making time.
- [72:25]
B
Thank you so much. Really a pleasure to be having this exchange with you and knowing that people will consider some of this stuff and it might be helpful.
- [72:34]
A
And if people want to get more from you, where can they find you?
- [72:40]
B
Yeah, so there's a site, a website called Pascalauclair.org, and I think that's a good hub to find out opportunities for practice, you know, and things like this. And yeah, I think I would invite people to go visit there.
- [72:56]
A
Okay. We'll put a link to that in the show notes if anybody wants to dig in a little deeper. But in the meantime, Pascal, you're the best.
- [73:03]
B
Thank you. You too. Thank you so much.
- [73:07]
A
I want to thank everybody who worked so hard to make this show 10% happier is produced by Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasily. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer, Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Kashmir is our executive producer. And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme. Also, one quick ask before I let you go. Head on over, please to danharris.com to sign up for my weekly newsletter. Every Monday, I drop a little bit of goodness into your inbox. Mondays, especially Monday mornings, can be super stressful. So that is when I drop in one useful nugget that you can operationalize in your life immediately, either from ancient wisdom, like Buddhism, or from modern science. It's short, it's easy to read, it's worth it. It's free. Sign up@danharris.com.
- [74:04]
B
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
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This week at Safeway. And Albertsons. Red, green or black seedless grapes are $1.99 per pound limit, 6 pounds member price with coupon and fresh boneless pork shoulder country style ribs. Value packs are $2.49 per pound member price plus selected sizes and varieties of General Mills cereals or Treat bars, Nature Valley Granola bars, Mott's Fruit by the Foot or gushers are $1.99 each member price when you buy three. Hurry in. These deals won't last. Visit safewayoralbertsons.com for more deals and ways to save.