Deserted Island with Joel Kim: Theology and Pastoral Wisdom

Summary

Podcast Summary: 5 Minutes in Church History with Stephen Nichols

Episode: Deserted Island with Joel Kim: Theology and Pastoral Wisdom
Date: July 9, 2025
Guest: Reverend Joel Kim, President of Westminster Seminary California
Host: Steve Nicholson (for Ligonier Ministries)
Location: Recorded live at Ligonier’s National Conference

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Overview

In this concise yet insightful episode, Stephen Nichols (as Steve Nicholson) continues his “Deserted Island” series with Reverend Joel Kim. The premise: Joel Kim is asked which books he would take if stranded on a deserted island. Kim’s responses reveal profound wisdom about theology, catechesis, pastoral ministry, and the enduring value of spiritual formation. The discussion emphasizes personal connections to classic theological works and explores how these books can shape both understanding and practice in the Christian faith.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Third Book: The Power and Warmth of the Heidelberg Catechism

[00:30–02:01]

• Joel Kim’s Choice: The Heidelberg Catechism

  • Initially considered John Calvin’s Institutes, but it’s “on the island” already; likewise, Francis Turretin’s works.
  • Kim values catechisms for their pedagogical method and accessibility.
  • Despite his Presbyterian Church in America background (which uses the Westminster Standards), Kim grew up with the Dutch Reformed Churches and the three forms of unity.
  • Speaks of the Heidelberg Catechism’s personal and warm expression of faith.
    • Quote:
      “It's such a powerful witness of the warmth of the Scripture and the salvation Christ has given to us. I would love to have that and be able to reflect upon that.” — Reverend Joel Kim [01:33]

• Steve Nicholson's Affirmation:

  • “It’s just beautifully written.” [02:01]

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2. The Fourth Book: C.S. Lewis and the Enduring Relevance of 'The Screwtape Letters'

[02:06–03:29]

• Kim’s pick: The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis

  • Used frequently for study; helpful in exploring spiritual temptation and Christian living.
  • Refers to Lewis’s response when asked why he didn’t write a counterpart from an angel’s perspective: “With the volume about devils, all I need to do is look inside myself.”
  • Discusses contemporary weakness in the theological study of humanity (anthropology) and the need for self-reflection and awareness of sin.
    • Quote: “Self reflection, self understanding, our own sinfulness, these are all things that seem to be things that we have to put off. ...There were insights about who we are that obviously Scripture provides... but this book explains things in such an approachable way.” — Reverend Joel Kim [02:46]

• Host’s Reaction:

  • “It's very, very clever. Clever conception and cleverly written.” — Steve Nicholson [03:29]

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3. The Fifth Book: Pastoral Wisdom from Spurgeon's 'Lectures to My Students'

[03:35–04:38]

• Kim’s choice: Lectures to My Students by Charles Spurgeon
  • Considered fiction but defaults to Spurgeon due to personal and professional significance.
  • Inherited most Spurgeon books from his father, who advised “to read and conquer” one author.
  • The book’s anthology format offers varied lessons for aspiring pastors: preaching, pastoral care, relationships.
  • Found Spurgeon’s practical guidance especially encouraging in his transition from college to seminary.
    • Quote:
      “Lectures to My Students... are an anthology of different lessons he's provided his students, talking about how to do pastoral ministry, including preaching all the way to human relationships. And I found that to be incredibly encouraging.” — Reverend Joel Kim [04:23]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Theological Pedagogy:
  • “Catechism sounds very complicated, but it's a question and answer way of teaching theology because we believe that that summarizes the Bible well.” — Reverend Joel Kim [00:59]
• On Self-Reflection and Sin:
  • “Anthropology as a whole is the theological discipline about the study of men and women and humanity that's oftentimes really weak in our day.” — Reverend Joel Kim [02:38]
• On Personal Formation:
  • “What would be helpful for you is if you read and conquered, that is, by reading one particular author.” — Advice from Joel Kim’s father, recounted at [03:56]

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Segment Timestamps

• [00:06] — Introduction and context, picking up from previous episode
• [00:30] — Discussion on catechisms; choosing the Heidelberg Catechism as third book
• [02:06] — Kim selects C.S. Lewis’ The Screwtape Letters as fourth book; reflections on its relevance
• [03:35] — Fifth and final pick: Charles Spurgeon’s Lectures to My Students; influence and practical lessons
• [04:38] — Closing affirmations and lighthearted farewell as Kim is “left” on the deserted island

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Tone & Language

The episode is warm, approachable, and marked by a blend of theological depth and personal storytelling. Joel Kim’s reflections are humble and relatable, emphasizing lifelong learning and the practical outworking of doctrine in faith and ministry. The conversation gently balances reverence for church tradition with relatable, lived experience.

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Takeaway

Reverend Joel Kim’s book selections reflect theological seriousness, a pastoral heart, and an emphasis on the value of both communal tradition and personal spiritual formation. This episode offers listeners a snapshot of how church history and classic works continue to shape and sustain the Christian life.

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For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode neatly distills why these texts matter and how they remain relevant for personal growth, ministry, and a life of faith—even on a “deserted island.”

Transcript

[Steve Nicholson]

Welcome back to another episode of Five Minutes in Church History. This is part two of Deserted island with the Reverend Joel Kim, president of Westminster Seminary California and a professor there. And we are recording live at Ligonier's national conference. And last time we were together, you mentioned the Team of Rivals.

[Reverend Joel Kim]

Yep.

[Steve Nicholson]

And then you mentioned the Rising Sun. And now we are on your third book, what would it be?

[Reverend Joel Kim]

So I was debating about a theological text that I would love to carry along. Initially, I was going to mention the Institutes by Calvin. And I know that sounds pretentious, but I was also told it's on the ip.

[Steve Nicholson]

It's already there.

[Reverend Joel Kim]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steve Nicholson]

It's multimatical in Latin, French and English.

[Reverend Joel Kim]

Oh, okay, very good. What year?

[Steve Nicholson]

All of the years.

[Reverend Joel Kim]

Okay, very good. The other possibility was a book that I love, which is Francis Turretin, An Atlantic Theology, but I assume that it might be on the island.

[Steve Nicholson]

Oh, I should have told you. It's there too.

[Reverend Joel Kim]

Oh, yeah, I kind of figured so. So the one that I would love to take is the Heidelberg Catechism. I think catechisms do not get the kind of play within churches and in many places that it deserves. And though I belong to the Presbyterian Church in America, where the standards that we uphold are what they call the Westminster Standards, Westminster Confession of Faith, Larger and Shorter Catechism and Catechism sounds very complicated, but it's a question and answer way of teaching theology because we believe that that's summarizes the Bible well. But I grew up in the Dutch Reformed Churches, and the Dutch Reformed Churches uphold what they call the three forms of unity, the Belgian Confession, Canons of Dort, but in particular Heidegger Catechism was the catechism with which I was catechized. The catechesis was completely focused on it. And it's such a personal one and it's such a powerful witness of the warmth of the Scripture and the salvation Christ has given to us. I would love to have that and be able to reflect upon that.

[Steve Nicholson]

And it's. It's just beautifully written.

[Reverend Joel Kim]

Absolutely.

[Steve Nicholson]

So that brings us to number four.

[Reverend Joel Kim]

CS Lewis and Screwtape letters. Some people might be upset by that, my guess in some ways. But Screwtape letters we have used as a text for study in number of occasions. I found them from early on to be very helpful where it's talking about, and I think many of you know, well, Uncle Devil talking to his nephew Devil about how to be a devil well, and being able to tempt and lead Christians astray. And the preface is interesting because this was a series that was put out, that was collected into a volume at one point. And somebody asked C.S. lewis, why didn't you write a companion volume of the Angel Uncle Talking to a Nephew Angel? And his answer was very interesting when he said, well, with the volume about devils, all I need to do is look inside myself. And anthropology as a whole is the theological discipline about the study of men and women and humanity that's oftentimes really weak in our day. Self reflection, self understanding, our own sinfulness, these are all things that seem to be things that we have to put off. And I. I think from early on, already decades ago, there were insights about who we are that obviously Scripture provides. Many theologians have written, but this book explains things in such a approachable way, found that to be a fun read as well as a very beneficial one.

[Steve Nicholson]

It's very, very clever. Clever conception and cleverly written. That brings us to our last book, what Will It Be?

[Reverend Joel Kim]

This was a tough one to fill out the five, because there are so many good books. And I initially thought I want to sound literate and have a non. I mean fiction. But I'm not really much of a fiction writer. I know there are people who love fiction. My wife does, too. I'm gonna stick to Lectures to My Students by Charles Spurgeon. Another Brit, Charles Spurgeon. My father, who was a minister, retired, told me when I was graduating from college and beginning seminary, he said, what would be helpful for you is if you read and conquered, that is, by reading one particular author. And at that time, later on, it became different individuals for me, as a immediately graduating college student, I decided to tackle Spurgeon. The reason was I had most Spurgeon books I inherited from my dad. And the particular book that influenced me, especially as I was thinking about seminary and ministry, was later Lectures to My Students, which are an anthology of different lessons he's provided his students, talking about how to do pastoral ministry, including preaching all the way to human relationships. And I found that to be incredibly encouraging.

[Steve Nicholson]

That's great. You've made great choices, and at this point, now we're going to just leave you on your deserted island. And I hope you enjoy your books.

[Reverend Joel Kim]

I got the manual. So we're good. You're good.

[Steve Nicholson]

Well, that's Reverend Joel Kim. He's being sent to his deserted island. And I'm Steve Nicholson. Thanks for joining us for five minutes in church history.