Memories with James Abrahart

Summary

Absolutely Not Podcast: “Memories with James Abrahart” Episode Date: July 1, 2026 Host: Heather McMahan
Guest: James Abrahart (aka J. Hart)

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Episode Overview

In this lively, nostalgia-soaked episode, comedian Heather McMahan reconnects with her longtime friend James Abrahart—a Grammy-winning songwriter, artist, and producer. Their conversation is a hilarious, unfiltered trip down memory lane, riffing on their creative hijinks as kids in Atlanta, their mutual hustle in the entertainment industry, the absurdities of growing up privileged, and the evolving landscape of making it as an artist. James also shares the story behind his latest single, "Memories," discusses his career highlights from writing for Justin Bieber to collaborating with TLC, and offers raw insight into being authentically himself in the music industry. The episode sparkles with camaraderie, irreverent humor, and a lot of heart.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Heather & James: Roots in Atlanta, Theater Kids Turned Hustlers

[01:04-08:59]

• Heather introduces James as “one of my oldest friends” with “a 20-year lore.”
• They reminisce about meeting as teens in Atlanta, bonding in high school theater and making absurd videos, skits, and “bangers” in James’ parents’ basement.
• “We used to sit in my basement...and plan our world domination. We used to make skits, we used to make hits, we used to show tits.” (James, 03:25)
• James’ early “Timbaland” phase: Producing music at 15, piling pub subs and chip crumbs on his mixing board, making rap albums before it was cool.
• They describe growing up surrounded by celebrities’ kids: “We were there with R. Kelly’s across the street, T-Pain’s down the way, Usher’s on the block, and Ludacris is...at Quick Trip. And let’s not forget Whitney Houston was always at Target.” (Heather, 04:55)
• School projects and self-made movies: Their theater group “Visions,” fake movie productions, and learning on-the-fly editing skills.

2. The Culture of Private School Privilege & Parody

[12:02-14:49]

• The absurdity of Atlanta’s “prestigious private school” scene inspires their satirical song “Private School Thuggin’,” poking fun at classmates trying to seem tough despite privileged backgrounds.
  • “Y’all want to be bad public school kids so bad, but your dad does rhinoplasty.” (James, 12:35)
• Heather and James lampoon the “fake hard” posturing, like bumping 50 Cent in their hand-me-down Land Rover and Chrysler Sebring.
• “My Escalade was such a piece of shit that one time...the wheel literally fell off while I was driving.” (James, 14:06)

3. Early Ambition & Hustle

[09:00-11:52]

• Heather and James detail their “hustler mentality,” hyping each other up as teens to take risks and pursue big dreams in entertainment.
• Both snuck demo CDs and standup DVDs into the mailboxes of local celebrities (Usher, Jeff Foxworthy), hoping for their “big break.”
• “We would hype each other up. Like, we would fucking get worked up in that basement.” (James, 11:25)

4. Musical Comedy Originals & Canceled Culture Jokes

[11:31-18:22]

• Heather and James reflect on the boundary-pushing, sometimes “cancelable” tracks they recorded as teens. They recount the origin of their song “Bombay Nights” and the irreverent humor underlying it.
• “We were the Lonely Island before there was the Lonely Island.” (Heather, 05:55)
• “Weird Al Yankovic had passed the torch to us. Yes. And we were passing the torch to Lonely Island behind us.” (James, 17:07)

5. Family, Sex, Privilege, and Wild Memories

[24:48-32:33]

• More Atlanta childhood lore: proximity to R. Kelly, anecdotes about celeb parents, and Heather’s controversial “I Have A Dream” student council campaign for Flip Flop Fridays.
  • “Tarnishing the legacy of Dr. King.” (James, 25:39)
• Drunken escapades in England, more homemade videos, and roleplaying MTV Cribs as washed-up British rockers.

6. Coming Out & Support

[43:34-44:05]

• Heather recalls James coming out to her in high school: “So, I like men.” – “Yeah, sweetie, I know.”
• They reflect on their safe friendship, closeness, and loving each other through growing pains, bullying, and body-image struggles.

7. James’ Path to Music Success

[34:36-40:00]

• James details breaking into the music industry: Writing for Maya (“Wish You Were Here”), interning with producer Polow da Don (Usher, Fergie, Pussycat Dolls).
• Humorous recall of being a “sweaty kid” in a janky Escalade, juggling retail jobs and studio sessions, with stories about missed opportunities and self-discovery.
• “I wanted to be a sponge...Someone at the studio found my MySpace page with me singing... they were like, Polo wants to see you. And I thought I was getting fired!” (James, 41:16)

8. Breakthroughs, Collaborations, and Recognition

[49:15-56:47]

• The “big moment”: James writes “Take You” for Justin Bieber’s Believe album. “It was like my first big moment of being like, oh...here it is on this huge platform.” (James, 49:49)
• More placements: Bieber’s “Company,” working with Kygo (touring, Coachella mainstage), and a Grammy nomination with Durand Bernarr.
• “And then [Bieber] performed it on the Billboard Music Awards... it was my first big moment.” (James, 49:47)
• James shares his TikTok “Katy Perry Challenge” viral moment, and writing “DJ Play a Christmas Song” for Cher (#1).
• "My first Grammy! ... [with] Durand Bernarr -- R&B Progressive Album of the Year." (James, 56:32)

9. The Challenges of the Modern Music Biz

[52:30-59:42]

• The pressure for artists and songwriters to go viral, how labels are now “data-driven” and less focused on developing talent.
  • “They’re all crunching numbers...artist development the way it used to be is gone. Artists are developing in real time.” (James, 58:12)
  • Heather and James both reflect on balancing online presence with live/performance work and returning to “just being silly.”

10. Full Circle: New Music, Goals, Manifestation

[60:15-64:23]

• James discusses his dreams: “Radio moment, Grammy nomination, performing on a late night show.”
• Plays a clip of his new single “Memories” [61:16], describes the promotional process.
• They restate their commitment to embracing their silly, creative roots: “We’ve been hustling since we were 15. It’s time to be ridiculous again.” (Heather, 38:39)
• Heartfelt mutual affirmation of their talents, collaboration plans (“Heather, you have to make a comedy album and call me!” – James, 37:13).

11. BONUS: The Anastasia Story

[64:48-67:21]

• Heather recalls a longstanding bit where James convinced crowds in London she was the pop star Anastasia, including a future Instagram interaction.
• “Anastasia, if you’re out there, we love you. I have been pretending to be you since I was 15. You are everything to us.” (Heather, 67:21)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We used to make skits, we used to make hits, we used to show tits.” (James, 03:25)
• “Y’all want to be bad public school kids so bad, but your dad does rhinoplasty.” (James, 12:35)
• “You were the Lonely Island before there was the Lonely Island.” (Heather, 05:55)
• “I tried to do ballet as a soccer goalie.” (James, 34:36)
• “Weird Al Yankovic had passed the torch to us. Yes. And we were passing the torch to Lonely Island behind us.” (James, 17:07)
• “I think everybody needs one bully in their life.” (Heather, 32:41)
• “I went straight to ‘I like men.’” (James, 44:05)
• “My first big moment: Wrote a song for Bieber.” (James, 49:49)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:04] – Intro, friendship history, Atlanta/theater lore
• [11:31] – Early comedic music, edgy skits, “cancelable” material
• [14:49] – Car disasters, Atlantan privilege
• [24:48] – Wild celeb-adjacent childhood, high school politics
• [34:36] – Breaking into music: Maya, Polow Da Don, studio stories
• [43:34] – Coming out, friendship acceptance
• [49:15] – Songwriting for Justin Bieber, career highlights
• [52:48] – Being an artist & a songwriter; shifting industry
• [56:32] – Grammy moment with Durand Bernarr
• [61:16] – Playing “Memories” snippet
• [64:48] – The “Anastasia” impersonation story

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Where to Find James

• TikTok: @J.Hart (no “E”)
• Instagram: @JHartMusic

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Closing Vibe

Layered with deep friendship, old-school hustle, and signature comedic bravado, this episode is a testament to creative vision, perseverance, and the art of not taking yourself too seriously in the business of show. It’s hilarious, poignant, and will make you nostalgic for your own coming-of-age shenanigans—while rooting for both Heather and James to keep being “silly and ridiculous” for decades to come.

James’ new single “Memories” is out now. Stream it everywhere!

Transcript

[A]

The following podcast is a dear media production.

[B]

Welcome to the Absolutely Not Podcast where we do the most and the least at the same damn time. I'm your host, Heather McMahon. I want to start a fire. Hello ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to another episode of the Absolutely not podcast. I'm your host, Heather McMahon. I've got to switch accents real quick because I don't even think you understand. I am so excited for today's guest. He's one of my oldest friends. You're gonna be obsessed with him if you don't already know him and love him. You're gonna know him and love him after this. He is a Grammy Award winning artist, he's a producer, a writer, and he is his. He's coming out with a new single. He. You need to know them. You're going to love them. Please welcome to the stage James Aberhart, AKA J. Hart.

[A]

Happy to be here, Heather. Thank you for having me. Hello. Love you.

[B]

All right, you're right. So, James, people do not understand the lore of like, of our, our, our. Our roots.

[A]

It's deep. It's deep.

[B]

How deep would you say it goes?

[A]

I mean, I'm no mathematician, but I would, I would say at this point we're running at least a 20 year lore.

[B]

20 year lore. Yeah. We don't want to age ourselves.

[A]

30 years. You said 30 years on your story and I was like, girl, that would, that, that means we would have met when I was like 6.

[B]

We met when. When you were what, 9?

[A]

No, we met when I was like 12. 13. No, no, no. Yeah, 13 or 14.

[B]

13 or 14.

[A]

So it is a, it's a deep lore nonetheless.

[B]

Nonetheless.

[A]

But let's, you know, get our numbers straight.

[B]

Well, we also don't want to age ourselves. Lest we freak.

[A]

Lest we age.

[B]

So James and I grew up in Atlanta together. We met doing theater in high school. James is an insane, Insanely. You are just an accomplished artist, you're an accomplished songwriter, producer. But I don't think people understand that. You have been doing this, you've been writing, you have been producing, you have been your own artist since you were. When I met you, I think I remember you're like 15 and you would produce music in your parents basement and I would come over. You were Timbaland, basically.

[A]

I was.

[B]

You were Timbaland.

[A]

I was Timbaland. You couldn't tell me shit.

[B]

He would have like a pub sub sitting on the deck. What do you call the actual board? The board? Yeah, the board. You'd have like a pub sub and like, chip crumbs everywhere in your school uniform.

[A]

That is. That is the perfect description. Literally what it was either a pub sub or like a PF Chang's lettuce wrap.

[B]

The amount of times we went to PF Chang's at North Point Mall was insane.

[A]

Oh, my God. And used to go back to get more teriyaki samples every 10 minutes, pretending I had never tried chicken teriyaki before.

[B]

Right, of course.

[A]

But absolutely sick of me. She was. That lady was sick of me.

[B]

She was just like, why are you guys coming here in your school uniforms? How can you afford to eat this much chicken teriyaki? We're like. We're rich kids from the suburbs, babe. So James and I became friends because we were doing theater together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you had a sick voice. But you're also one of the funniest people I've ever met in my life. And I know you're like a serious artist and you do these things, but let's be honest, James, we used to make bangers.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Will you please explain to folks like our connection in your parents basement and what we used to create.

[A]

Yeah, of course. So Heather and I hit it off real quick, as you can probably tell. And we used to sit in my basement and your basement and plan our world domination. And we used to make skits. We used to make hits. We used to show tits.

[B]

We did. We did. We really did.

[A]

We ran the gamut. Like, we wrote raps.

[B]

We have multiple rap albums.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[B]

That have. I think we need to release them.

[A]

And some of them were funny. Well, a lot of them were funny. Some of them were like, we were actually giving a go at it, you know, because Ludacris did live a hop, skip and a jump.

[B]

That was T Pain. T Pain was on the end of my cul de sac. Ludacris and Usher were in Country Club of the South.

[A]

My mistake.

[B]

My mistake. And James grew up across the street from R. Kelly.

[A]

Well, you might have to redact that.

[B]

No, we're not redacting. We need to talk about that. So we would go in between our homes and. And you were actually, like, physically producing in your basement. You had a full music studio. You were 15 with your pub son.

[A]

Well, it started in a closet. Oh, yes, it started in a closet. And I was in the closet at the time. So it was quite Inception esque. And then we moved to another room in the basement that wasn't occupied at the time.

[B]

And it was next to your, like, movie theater room. I feel like so Your brother Stewart was always in there watching, like, FIFA World Cup. And we were writing raps about what it was like to go to a private school with P. Didy's kids.

[A]

A Christian school.

[B]

A Christian school. So I need you to know we were there with R. Kelly's across the street, T Pain's down the way, Usher's on the block, and Ludacris is. You know, I ran into him at Quick Trip. Oh, and let's. Let's not forget Whitney Houston was always at Target.

[A]

I never met Whitney, but I would have fucking passed out had I ever died. But I've heard stories of her driving around Country Club of the south like a mad woman. Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, my mom got in a fight with her in the Target parking lot. My mom, she had this big Porsche Cayenne, and my dad had just gotten the Porsche Cayenne, and my mom honked the horn because she thought it was my husband. You know, Robin doesn't pay attention to, like, the color of cars or details. And Whitney apparently rolled down her window and was like, you. And my mom was like, oh, I thought you were my husband. I apologize. She's like, you know what? Your albums, they suck. And she rolled up her window, came home in her red Jaguar, and my mom came barreling in the house and was like, can you believe Whitney? And I was like, well, first of all, her albums don't suck. My mom was like, I know. She's fantastic.

[A]

She had to say what she had to say. She had to say what she had. She had to get through that and come out on top. And that's. I love that about Robin.

[B]

I love that about Robin, too.

[A]

She's a fighter.

[B]

Fighter. So you would create these songs first in the closet, then and still in the closet when you had your pub sub on the board, and we would create these insane songs. And I don't want to toot our own horn, but we were the lonely island before there was the lonely island beyond.

[A]

And. And we were waiting for culture to catch up to us.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

My first of all, one of my original songs played at prom, and it bombed. Cleared the dance floor. Okay. Not. Oh, yeah. You don't remember that? No. Oh, maybe you were gone at that point. You might have felt like I graduated. Yeah, she's older. Um, but, yeah, they played my original song at prom, and I was like, this is my moment. It's about to go the fuck off. Like, everybody's gonna realize the talent that I have. The opposite happened. Everyone back. Everyone went back to their Cold Chicken. And just left the dance floor. And it was like me and two other theater kids in the middle of the floor. Just like.

[B]

Like, maybe it's in my mom's basement.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we would do class projects because we were a part of a theater group called Visions, and Visions was a song and dance group. It was the musical theater sidebar, if you will.

[A]

Yeah. Arm.

[B]

Arm. It was the arm. It was the arm where we would do horrible song and dance numbers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But one thing that was cool about our school was because I was in student council. If we needed, we would have this thing called Chapel every week. Okay. And we would have performances, we would do all this shit. And we would always make videos for Chapel. And we were making movies that if Spielberg. Oh, if Aaron Sorkin read our scripts, he would be like, wow.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[B]

I mean, it was insane. And we were editing on the camera.

[A]

Oh, yeah, we were editing. We were editing in things that now you would be impressed with. Yes. We were doing split screens. I would be arguing with my evil twin. It was giving Parent Trap. I mean, it was. We were. We were savants of our time.

[B]

We went to your house one time, your parents came home, and there was somebody on the roof jumping into the pool, and. And it was like, guys, you're ruining the take. Get away. Get away. You're ruining the take.

[A]

That is accurate.

[B]

Because James has another cousin, Grant, who would make movies with us. He was a videographer. I was like the writer and comedian. You were making the movie and the soundtrack. We were all acting. It was insane. And I'll never forget, we had shot a video for Chapel and you forgot to bring the disc. That's the thing. James is the most talented person on the planet, but we are the same. And, like, we forget the computer, we forget the car.

[A]

I was late today.

[B]

Yeah. And your dad had to bring the disk drive. You're right. Yes.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And they were like, if you don't get this video here in the next seven minutes, get here now.

[A]

Nothing.

[B]

We have a premiere in Chapel.

[A]

Oh, my God. You're just. I'm just writing. I'm, like, getting PTSD from this memory right now.

[B]

And we played this video. It was like an action sequence video. And it was something about. I don't know if it was for one of our many fundraisers at school, but we were. We were giving the students of Greater Atlanta Christian School a fucking show.

[A]

Oh, the full fantasy.

[B]

The full fantasy. And they didn't appreciate it at the time. No, I don't think they still appreciate.

[A]

No, they. They don't.

[B]

Or our accolades.

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[B]

Now, something you need to understand about James is he is the most fearless. Like, talk about a hustler. I thought I hustled, but no. James would. You would give discs to all the famous, like, musicians, R and B artists, rappers in Atlanta.

[A]

You'd.

[B]

You drop off a mixtape, would you not?

[A]

Yes. So I famously, between like five people, snuck into Country Couple of the south, which was Usher's neighborhood, and I put my demo CD and I had wrote. I had written my number on the back. Like, I was so cocky. Like, you're going to need to call me right when you hear this because it's going to blow your fucking mind. Okay? I had put my demo CD in his mailbox and I knew it was his house because I had a big U on the gate. He wasn't discreet.

[B]

Yeah, he was not discreet. That's why I don't. I'm not upset about saying what neighborhood they all lived in.

[A]

No. Yeah, he doesn't live there anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we're. We're safe. We're not doxxing anyone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I had put my demo CD in his mailbox. Didn't get a call.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which, thank God, I didn't because I ended up working with him years, a couple times in my career, and I think if he ever put two and two together, he would be mortified. But, yeah.

[B]

So funny enough, there was a magic about that neighborhood because Jeff Foxworthy used to live in that neighborhood.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

No longer does. I did the same thing when I did stand up comedy at the junior prom. I took the DVD and put it in his mailbox and Cammy Abear, who on show me your Moomoo, buzzed me into the gate and I put my DVD of my 30 minute set into his mailbox and that's when he called me. And I'll never forget, I was at

[A]

the Quick Trip and you got the call.

[B]

I got the. I got the call. I got the call. Okay. And I. His wife and daughter, his kids went to our school. His wife stopped me at Quick Trip, you know. Cause we'd all go to Quick Trip after school to get like a slushy or some shit. Of course.

[A]

Quick Trip milkshakes.

[B]

Yeah. And she was like, Just want to let you know, Jeff got your dvd. He loved it. He's going to be in touch soon. Want you to know, like, he's on the road right now doing Blue Collar comedy tour, but he's going to be in touch Soon. And then when I got the call, it was like, you know, it happened. But everything magical that happened in our youth happened in that fucking neighborhood.

[A]

But also hustler mentality through and through. Hello.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

You both were on the same wavelength. And I tell people about this all the time. Okay. Heather and I, we really used to plan our, like, domination. Like, you were like, I'm going to host snl. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. And I'd be like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to produce this. I'm going to do this. And it was like we would. We would hype each other up. Like, we would fucking get worked up in that basement.

[B]

We get worked up in the basement. And then I think our release was then making these insane comedic videos.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now we have two singles that we did back in high school. Three, actually. One of them will definitely never see the light of day. We have two that have.

[A]

You can't say one of them.

[B]

I'm not going to say one of them. Because that will. People.

[A]

Because we will be. It will be over there.

[B]

The other two are equally as cancelable.

[A]

Yeah. Well, yeah, but.

[B]

But in fairness, we're. First of all, we're 16.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the joke was good.

[A]

Actually.

[B]

I think it could come back.

[A]

It might be. We might be. Post.

[B]

Post.

[A]

We might be just, you know, again, culture is catching up.

[B]

Culture is catching up. We wrote a song about. Because we went to this prestigious private school with all these, like, famous, like, every Falcons player, Braves player, all their kids went to our school.

[A]

Traumatizing, traumatizing.

[B]

Very traumatizing. And P. Diddy. So we wrote a song. Go watch. I'll just tell the name. It's called Private School Thuggin. And it was all about how all these kids would come to our school and their parents did, like, cool shit, but they were truly, like, the yuppiest kids ever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was like, okay, yeah, your dad is, like, the number one, you know, linebacker in America, but you also nose surgeon. Yeah, yeah. Like, calm.

[A]

Yeah. And they had so much to prove. Overcompensating. That's what the magic of the song was. It was like, y' all want to be bad public. Public school kids. So bad. But your dad does rhinoplasty.

[B]

And we used to have Chick Fil A catered service in our, like, bookstore in the morning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is how.

[A]

Not to mention smoothies. Catered by. Who was it? What was the name of the smoothie company? Smoothie King. Smoothie King. Yeah.

[B]

This is how privileged we were. We would roll up, we had one security guard in a guard shack who drive around in a little golf cart. And that golf cart didn't get faster than 10 miles an hour. And he wouldn't even look like the amount of people that were on our campus that shouldn't have been there. That's why we were actually thugging, right? And we would get our little chick fil a biscuit in the morning, you know, we'd go to our fancy little classroom. It was bullshit. And everybody acted so hard. And like my senior year is when 50 cents pimpin album dropped and I would pull out of that school and my Land Rover.

[A]

Oh yeah, you would screech out that.

[B]

Screech out in my Land Rover Discovery that my dad bought a Carmax. It was used. And I'd be like, have my cardigan sweater tied around my shoulders like you don't know what you heard about me. And we thought we were hard.

[A]

I had a baby blue Chrysler Sebring that my dad handed down to me and I same thing. I would be hopping over curves in that.

[B]

And then you got the Escalade. Let's not forget about when you had the Escalade James used as well, which.

[A]

And it was an absolute hunk of junk. Don't let the name fool you. My Escalade was such a piece of shit that one time I was driving on the highway in Atlanta and the wheel literally fell off while I was driving. I'm not, I'm not joking you. I saw the wheel overtake the car and I was like, that's probably not good. And then it just crashed on the floor and I don't know why. My first instinct was to immediate jump out and start chasing after the wheel. No, no, James, I swear to God. There we. I. I ran past this intersection and I just in the. There was this lady in a minivan that probably saw this wheel go flying by and then saw my chubby ass running after it. Those were dark times.

[B]

Everybody follow me on soundcloud. J Heart.

[A]

Those were dark times.

[B]

So we would make these videos at your house across from R. Kelly and they were. I, I mean that's how I was cool at parties in college. I would put it on. I would like video casted on my screen, I bet. Guys, just so you know, I have multiple music videos. And then Lonely island people were like, wow, okay, this is concerning.

[A]

Well, nobody was doing that at that time. No, no, we were. This was not, we were not in the generation of kids that were uploading shit to YouTube like fucking hotcakes. Like, we were early.

[B]

We were early. The quality, the video quality was insane.

[A]

Lens flare for days.

[B]

Oh, so much lens flare.

[A]

So much lens flare.

[B]

And then at one point, our buddy, who was the one who uploaded them, he definitely, for good reason, paused them.

[A]

He made them private.

[B]

But I do think at some point, James, we consult our friend and we say, we gotta release them. Release the tapes.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, our hearts were in the right place.

[B]

They were.

[A]

We just were trying to make people laugh.

[B]

We were trying to make people laugh. And they're funny.

[A]

They're funny, you know, they're great. Yeah.

[B]

We had a lot of foresight. We, again, people were trying to catch up to the culture.

[A]

Are you gonna tell them about Bombay Nights or no?

[B]

No, I think. No, we should, because actually, the joke is smart in Bombay.

[A]

It is smart.

[B]

The execution and maybe the bridge, the hook song could be controversial.

[A]

We could polish that up.

[B]

So we wrote this song called Bombay Nights. And it was because James. I would go in the summer to James's house in England, and James introduced me to Indian food. Talk about a tastemaker. And James and I would get drunk at 15 and 16. In Chelmsford, right?

[A]

Yeah, in Chelmsford.

[B]

Chelmsford. At the high street. We get pie mash in the morning, and then we go to the Indian place and get the chicken tikka in the afternoon.

[A]

We were underage. We still had braces at the time, mind you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we would be looking up like, you're very finest wine, sir.

[B]

They'd bring it. They wouldn't question us.

[A]

No.

[B]

Because my tits were.

[A]

You pushed them girls up.

[B]

I pushed them girls up. And I was like, james, we're gonna get drunk at the Indian restaurant. So we would drink red wine, and you really introduced me to this incredible new palette.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we would get hammered at this Indian restaurant. And so we wrote this song called Bombay Nights about me wanting to date outside of my culture and looking for a guy. Like, white men don't appreciate me because they didn't in high school. It was only the hot black dudes, which I still should have gone that way. I'm still upset that I didn't take his.

[A]

Sorry, Jeff.

[B]

Sorry. No, no. Jeff knows. Jeff knows that if he gets in my bus, I will never go white again. It is black dong. I want him hitting me in the face.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I want multiple dongs at once hitting

[A]

me in the face.

[B]

And I love my husband.

[A]

Happy pride. Happy pride.

[B]

Let me tell you. Let me tell you. If I don't end up at some sort of gang bang. Oh, my God. I'm gonna be so disappointed.

[A]

Yeah. Fall on your sword for the rest of us. Fall on my sword.

[B]

So that was kind of the. The. The thing where, like, there was a rival high school and these guys would always hit on me, but I was like, why am I dating these yuppie fucking white guys that go to our school anyways?

[A]

Just giving nothing.

[B]

Giving nothing, nothing, nothing. So we wrote this song. And you were the Indian guy.

[A]

Well, I was the delivery boy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For the Indian food. For this Indian food that she had ordered. And I was obviously white. That was the joke, was that you wanted to date an Indian guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the delivery driver shows up, and it's me, and she pulls me in the house. And then the song starts. And obviously the joke is that I'm not. I was just a delivery boy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like, I'm not Indian. I was like, I'm not Indian. Yeah. She was like, shh.

[B]

Yeah, it got very sexual.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, there's candles lit.

[A]

Your friend's hair got set on fire.

[B]

Jenny. Jenny's hair was.

[A]

Jenny's hair got set on fire by the candles.

[B]

Should we just sing the chorus? We can cut this during Bay nights.

[A]

Well, we gotta be on the same key if we're gonna sing it.

[B]

Dumbbey. Nights on my mind look so good, feel so right Indian spies on me Tight.

[A]

Give me one of them. My main eye definitely getting canceled.

[B]

No, it's so good.

[A]

And it's quite chromatic. The melody as well. It's quiet. Indian smiles hold me tight yeah.

[B]

Releasing. Release the tapes.

[A]

Put it out there. Who gives a fuck?

[B]

We were, like, 17.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was layered jokes.

[A]

No, we were. We were doing. We had. Weird Al Yankovic had passed the torch to us. Yes. And we were passing the torch to Lonely island behind us.

[B]

Yeah. And then I never got a phone call, ever, from snl. You know, like when they did Dick in a Box, I'm like, done it, been there. Yeah.

[A]

You were like. I was doing that when you were sucking the tea.

[B]

You were sucking the tea. And guess what? I was doing it while I was staring at Dark Kelly's house getting raided.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We didn't even talk about that. That's the thing is people don't understand, you know, I'm a lady who loves a fabulous bag, and I love feeling fabulous when I go out. But I have a lot of events, I have a lot of travel, and you know what I don't have time to do is to bankrupt myself by buying a billion designer bags, that's insane. And I need a different bag for each event. Well, that's why I'm obsessed with Vivrel. Okay. Vil is a game changer. And I had seen so many other influencers work with them in other podcasters, and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure, sure. And then I got the most gorgeous Gucci bag of, like, all time. And I'm like, wait, I can just rent this and then I can return it when I'm done with it after I've, like, taken photos in it and worn it to a million events. And I know it's, like, a very specific bag that I wouldn't necessarily want to purchase because it wouldn't match everything in my closet. Well, the closet that they have at Vivrel is insane. Chanel, Louis Vuitton, Prada, Dior, all the brands that I dream about and love. The way it works is once you're accepted into the club, you just pick the piece that you want to borrow and it shows up at your doors. Step. It truly feels surreal. And the best part is, and this is what hooked me, there's no return dates. You can keep a piece as long as you want, or you can swap out monthly if you're ready for something new. And it's just great because, like, I took a gorgeous bag to Europe. I'm able to enjoy it, and then I'm able to just put it in a box with a return label and send it back to Vivrel when I am done. Vi's summer event is going on now and ending soon, and I have the exclusive code for you. Use code absolutely for 40% off your first three months of membership. Go to bvrrel.com and apply for membership today using referral code absolutely for 40% off your first three months of membership during Vivrel's summer event. That's V I V R e l l e.com and use code absolutely for 40% off your first three months. Again, that's vivrel.com and use code absolutely for forty percent off your first three months. If you love living your best life, but you don't want to commit to an overnight stay somewhere because you don't need to, but you want to enjoy amenities, then you need to check out Resort Pass. Resort Pass is amazing. Here's a concept. Resort Pass gives you access to luxury hotel pools, spas, cabanas for the day. No overnight stay, no membership. You just book it. Passes start at $25, and then your Poolside for the day. You know what we love a spur the moment decision. Resort Pass is freaking amazing. It takes no more than five minutes to book and they even have same day booking. They work directly with over 2,500 hotels and resorts to provide you with the same luxury hospitality that you would experience as an overnight guest. 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It's all in one place so you can focus on your customers, not your to do list. And if you're ready to grow or streamline how you run things, then you need to work with Square. Like, why would you not make your life easier? It's already tough enough being a business owner center. Square is offering listeners up to 200 off Square hardware. When you sign up at square.com go/absolutely again, that's s q u a r e.com go/absolutely. Start with Square and build a setup that grows with your business. Square is amazing. It works whether you're just starting out or growing from a location. To many, Square is the advocate in your corner. Okay? It's a trusted, true partnership. It has also unbelievable value. Square now offers three Clear plans, free plus premium. So you can pick the tools you need to grow and move and more when you're ready. You know what I mean? No matter where you are in your business, I think having tools like Square just truly will streamline everything and make your life more transparent and flexible. And their team will always be there to help you along the way. And again, Square can help you run your business more smoothly, bringing payments, operations, insights together in one place so you're ready for whatever's next. And right now, like I said, listeners can get up to $200 off Square hardware. When you sign [e-mail], go. Absolutely. That's s q U-A-R e.com go slash. Absolutely. Get started with square and build a setup in the ways that you do. So let's go back real quick to. To how one degree of separation we both were from getting taken and taken advantage of at any moment. And then no one ever took advantage of us. And I think that's where it comes from. We.

[A]

I was less likely to be fair. I was. You were more of a looker than I was in high school. I definitely evolved into my. I did not peak in high school at all.

[B]

P did. He would come to our school and because I was in student council, I was student body president. I was the one who was in charge of giving him the tours when, you know, take him to fifth grade graduation, take him around school.

[A]

You were student body president or did I make that up?

[B]

No, I was.

[A]

Oh yeah, you were.

[B]

Hbic. Thank you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Do you remember my platform that I ran on? Yeah.

[A]

Remind me.

[B]

This will also get me canceled. Did a makeshift version of I have a Dream speech. And I said, I have a dream that we will be. Oh my God, this is so up, Heather.

[A]

This is so crazy.

[B]

I said, I have a dream that we will be allowed Flip Flop Fridays. And you know, cuz like all our asses couldn't wear.

[A]

Tarnishing the legacy of Dr. King. My tarnishing.

[B]

I'll make a donation. I'm so sorry. We're an ally.

[A]

Always an ally. Definitely.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like Black History Month, my favorite month. Y and I did a full comedic rendition of I have a Dream. And it was what we would get, like, you know, Diet Cokes in the lunchroom, Flip Flop Fridays, out of uniform Tuesdays. Uh huh. And I won with flying colors.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you were a snake oil salesman. None of that shit happened, by the way.

[B]

Oh, I miss simpler times.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

You know, Stacia was the one who gave me the okay.

[A]

Stacia.

[B]

Kelly Taylor. I was like, stacia, can I. Can I workshop this with you? And she's like, girl, say it. I also want to wear flip flops. I was like, yeah, my girl gets it.

[A]

I miss her.

[B]

So then I. I was walking around P. Diddy, and then you had R. Kelly directly across the street from you.

[A]

Well, yeah, R. Kelly was in my neighborhood for a time. And across the street, like, I could see his house. And it turns out that was the house in the documentary that Dark was happening yeah. And we had no clue. I mean, we used to kind of like make comments because obviously the pissing video had come out. But when people knew about the pissing video, but people didn't know about the extent of the. So for a long time it was kind of like a joke. Like R. Kelly would piss on people.

[B]

And so no one understood the underage of it all. No, no, no, no. Any of that.

[A]

At that point, we didn't know we were also underage. I mean, if we knew that, my parents would have like freaked the fuck out, you know?

[B]

No, your parents are the nicest people on the planet. And they are so innocently British.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In a great way. Like your mother would. She would pick us up in her minivan from the high street in England.

[A]

Toyota Previa.

[B]

The Toyota Previo. After we had gotten ha. At the Indian restaurant which always smelled

[A]

like chips and barf.

[B]

It did. And she was always like, oh no, Heather and James. Oh please, Heather, don't tell your mother that you drank wine. I was like, I'm the one who ordered it.

[A]

Yeah. They were mad at us for. For it. We would just come in fucking sloshed.

[B]

And we were 16.

[A]

16.

[B]

But then at your house, your. Your country house in England, we would then also make videos and tell them the latest video you found on your laptop about us.

[A]

So I found a video of me and Heather doing an MTV Cribs episode at my house in England. And we were doing a bit like. I was like a washed up rocker and you were my alcoholic wife.

[B]

Yeah, sure was.

[A]

Checks out.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And it's amazing. I need to find. I'm gonna find it and send it to you so at some point you can post it. Cause it really is funny and it's less cancelable than our other offenses. So I, I'm.

[B]

I'm so excited to find these, these MP3s or. I don't even know what are these videos on a floppy disk?

[A]

Yeah, literally they're on like a USB drives like, like full dust written like I need to just.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know. But I'll find them.

[B]

We did a full video. We made your sister at one point. Your.

[A]

All. Your.

[B]

Your whole family and my family were always in the videos.

[A]

What? I just remembered there's a fight sequence. There's a fight sequence between me and you because I was obsessed with Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Charmed. Shocker.

[B]

And I went to theater camp every summer and took stage combat.

[A]

Yeah. So there's a l fight sequence where I'm beating the shit out of Heather Yeah.

[B]

Which honestly played into the character Method acting as a washed up rock British rocker. It was very Ozzy Osbourne.

[A]

Yeah. Very.

[B]

I don't know if, you know, rest in peace. I don't know if he ever laid a hand on Sharon, but he definitely cheated on her a lot, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So we would shoot these videos and I would go visit you and. And our. And our parents never worried about us. They were so worried about us in other ways. But when we were together making just gems of creativity, they never worried about us.

[A]

No, they didn't give a shit.

[B]

Now James starts hawking out his mixtapes and one of them finally lands. And, you know, and I always believed in you, James. And I always knew you were so talented. But one day, I'll never forget, I was a junior. You're a sophomore.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

He calls me and James, you're like, hey, let's go to the midnight viewing of the new Transformer movie. I was like, I don't really like the Transformers, but fine. We would go up to this, this movie theater called Regal Cinemas at Medlock Crossing. The place that was a place, that's the place where everybody got the first time they were fingered.

[A]

Saw everyone. You talked shop.

[B]

You talked shop.

[A]

You smoked weed in the parking lot.

[B]

You smoked weed. You smoked your first cigarette. You felt you saw your first penis. Like, that's what happened at the Medlock Cross.

[A]

All of the above.

[B]

And so I'm like, okay, let's go for a midnight viewing of Transformers. It was a summer night and you said, my friend's gonna come. His friend was T bottom from tlc. She shows up and I'm like, james, what the fuck? You didn't warn me that a member of tlc, the greatest girl group of all time, is coming to Transformers with us. I'm in like my swim team uniform. Like, what are we doing?

[A]

I loved, like just a complete shock moment. Like not revealing and then just having that be a moment.

[B]

I'm watching Transformers, sharing a popcorn with T boss.

[A]

Yeah, she's giggling.

[B]

Yeah, she's giggling. And I'm like, so how often do you work with James? She's like, oh, he's doing my whole new album. I'll be like, he's 16. What are we doing? And that's when I knew I was not worried about us.

[A]

No, we had it in the bag from day one. But yeah, that was my girl. She was. She was probably one of the first people to like, take a shine to me and believe in me. And then we became really good friends. And I did her TV show. She filmed a TV show. And then I came out here with. I came out to Vegas with TLC and watched them perform one year. I just loved. And by the way, fan Mail tour was my first ever concert when I moved to America. Yeah. So I'll never forget. Do you remember that song, where My Girls at?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

So Black opened up for tlc.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I was, by the way, gayer than a. You know, gay as gay can be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And at some point, someone shouted out, where my girls at? And I thought they were about to start playing that song. So I stood up and I was like, hey. And some guy next to me goes, you're not a girl. Sit down. And I was like, is that the

[B]

first time you were hate crime?

[A]

Yeah, that was the first time I was ever game. Just gay shamed. And I just sat down like, just. And you're, like, so different.

[B]

Get used to this love.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is what my future is gonna look like. It doesn't get better.

[B]

It doesn't. I try and tell people, like, as a very chubby child, it did it get better.

[A]

It never leaves you.

[B]

It never leaves you.

[A]

It's always there.

[B]

The other day, I was scrolling through. I was, like, cleaning out my inbox or something, and it was like a compilation of all these things that these grown men have said horrible things about me online. And I don't know why I say these. I'm like a glutton for punishment. I was like, oh, yeah. Oh, I don't know why I put that in a hidden album. They're there.

[A]

They're there.

[B]

It's like sometimes you got to tinker. You just got to.

[A]

You got to dip your toe in.

[B]

You got to dip your toe in. Extreme bullying and online hate just to feel alive.

[A]

Yeah. Because it keeps you. It keeps you in touch, you know?

[B]

We'll write our next it. Online bullying. I. I love a bully, though. I think everybody needs one bully in their life.

[A]

I've had more than others in the comments now. Gives me joy. And it, like, it just hearkens back to the. To the bullying in high school. But now I come out on top.

[B]

You always come out on top.

[A]

I have a sharp ass tongue. Trust and believe. Do not with this Gemini. And so people will come into my comments trying to be cute, you know, and trying to be slick and let them know. We just. We let them know real quick. We let them know and find joy in it. By the way, like, I really enjoy just handing someone their ass in the Comment section.

[B]

Nothing better.

[A]

It's the best.

[B]

I don't. I usually just.

[A]

You ignore.

[B]

I ignore. And then I smoke a. A long cigarette by myself and listen to, like, Joni Mitchell, and I'm like, we're gonn. Okay. But that's why I have people like you, James, in my life, because that's what you enjoy. Like, I do it on stage for a living. So then when it's actually personal, I'm like, I'm not feeling so great.

[A]

I was gonna ask you, how often on stage do you get, like, heckled and how do you deal with that?

[B]

It's different. Like, if you're playing, it's annoying heckling. It's not actually like. Like, you're a fat cunt. Like, I don't get that as much as I like. And at that. At this point, I'd be like, thank you. It's more annoying heckling where people are just yelling out things about you, like, where's your mom? I'm like, at home. This is my show.

[A]

Right? Right.

[B]

I mean, I wish.

[A]

They want to be a part of it.

[B]

They want to be a part of it. I was shooting my special two weeks ago, and a girl was just, like, in the middle. In the middle of a punchline. How are your dogs? And you're like, what are we doing here? You know? And then I have to stop the show and acknowledge it because I'm laughing at this point. I'm like, this is insane. But, you know, Ellen, listen. It's more people sliding in your DMs or, like, heckling you online in the sense you're like, women aren't funny. And you're like, shut the fuck up, Carl.

[A]

Right? It's always a Carl, always a white,

[B]

always a white man. So talk about your trajectory of, like, you were making kids in your basement. And then. And then what was the progression to where you are now?

[A]

So no one in my family did music, by the way. Full football, English, soccer. Yeah, family. So my dad was like. He was, like the. The soccer manager. So they tried to put me in football for a year. I was doing ballet and goal. It didn't work out. You know, we were. I swiftly replaced. Moved. So start doing music. I'm, like, slinging my demo tapes to anyone that would listen. Met T. Bos. Started working with her, worked with her brother. I got my first ever songwriting placement with T. Boss's brother. With Maya. You know Maya, Do.

[B]

Excuse me, Do I know Maya?

[A]

Girl, you like, I know my looks can be deceiving, which, by the Way is still one of my go to karaoke songs.

[B]

And I miss her. I miss her.

[A]

Miss her ass.

[B]

Maya, we'd really like you to come back.

[A]

Maya, we love you. You are an icon.

[B]

I think she knows too much.

[A]

She does know too much.

[B]

She knows too much.

[A]

I'll never forget. One of my gay awakenings was the Maya was that video. My love is like, whoa. She does a tap dance break.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[A]

With a top hat and a cane. And I was like, I'm a faggot.

[B]

Happy pride.

[A]

Happy pride.

[B]

James used to cry. We used to drive around and we would listen to Brandi and I. Anytime I hear Brandi's name, I just think that's James's. Love of your life is Brandi.

[A]

That is my girl. Your girl? She is my. I would say number one or number two. She is like. Well, she's the vocal bible. Everyone knows this, but she is.

[B]

When boy is mine came out. I used to sing that song in my room. As if I had a man to fight over. As if I had a friend to fight over. A man in high school.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I kissed my hand many a night to when you touched me by Brandy. Many another. This hand got a lot of action to that song.

[B]

When the song by the Dixie Chicks, who will always be the Dixie Chicks to me. Okay, they're the chicks. Whatever.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

When the song cowboy take me away came out, I used to sit, drive home from school, my school uniform and have this fantasy. And that's probably why I love Taylor Sheridan shows now. Cause they're all about cowboys. And I used to cry and sing cowboy take me away as if some fucking lone ranger was gonna come in

[A]

on a clown Clydesdale, some Levi's sporting.

[B]

Pick my ass up in a rich neighborhood in Atlanta and take me aware to Birmingham. I'd panic.

[A]

That would be hell, come to think of it now. But she didn't know any better. How am I take me away. Perfect.

[B]

We got to do a song together.

[A]

We really do.

[B]

I can't sing anymore. I really. I've lost my girl.

[A]

You can.

[B]

Do you think I should do vocal lessons again? I think if I just tuned it up.

[A]

I mean, it depends. I think I've been telling Heather this for the longest time. You need to make a comedy album and you need to call me when you do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you want to take vocal lessons, fine. But, you know, there's technology now. We just throw a little autotune on it. Yeah. You know, we'll sauce up your vocal. You'll sound like everybody else. At the very least, Countess Luann. Okay. At the very least, Countess Luanne.

[B]

Just say la vie.

[A]

Simon.

[B]

Simone. Well, we had martinis the other night, and I said, james, I really. You brought up the comedy album again. And I just think. Again. Because people will think if I start releasing hits that I'm trying to copy somebody else. They don't realize that this is our roots.

[A]

Oh. This is our blood. Like, this is our us.

[B]

We put it aside for so long to be serious performers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I am so sick of that. I've proven myself. You've proven yourself. We both said that this year, one of our goals is to get back to being fucking silly and ridiculous.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I'm just like, I do not subscribe to this idea that you have to pick one lane and do this thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For. For the rest of your life. It's like we were both the type of kids that we would be. Putting on shows. Yeah. Writing songs, put, you know, like, filming movies, cooking. I mean, like, I just feel like that I want to have that version of myself as an adult where I'm like, I can be funny and do skits online. I can write, help write a TV show. I can, like, be in a musical. I can release my music. You know, like, we deserve that.

[B]

We deserve that. That we've been hustling since we were 15.

[A]

We really have.

[B]

So you start working with. You said Brandy's brother gave you your first song.

[A]

Brother T. Bob's brother. T Boss's brother. We had a song with Maya on a Japanese deluxe album.

[B]

I remember that.

[A]

Yes. It was called wish you were here. And I co produced the song because I was making beats at that point. And then it just kind of. I got an internship with this producer, Polo, to Don, who's like a big Atlanta producer. He did Buttons by Pussycat Dolls. Hello. Hello. He did love in this club for Usher.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

He did Glamorous for Fergie.

[B]

Fucking iconic.

[A]

And he did London Bridge for Fergie.

[B]

London Bridge.

[A]

No, no, Darling, can you believe that?

[B]

I can't. Darling.

[A]

Can you fucking believe that?

[B]

Out of my mind. Losing it.

[A]

So I interned for him for a year and a half. He tried to sign me as an artist. He wanted me to do a song called lights, camera, action. Which, mind you, I was very heavy at the time. I have fluctuated a lot in my life. You know, we've talked about struggle. We don't struggle. But I just wasn't. I was deep in the closet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was. I just couldn't do it so left Polo, came out to la, started writing songs, and then the rest is history.

[B]

The rest is history. So did you have the Escalade when you started doing. When you started working with all these artists in Atlanta? I feel like that's when you got the Escalade.

[A]

No, I, I, I got the Escalade senior year of high school. Yeah.

[B]

So that was the wild thing. So James would call me, we'd meet up for lunch at, like, the PF Changs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you would be driving all over Atlanta in your Escalade with one wheel missing and be going to these, like, insane laboratories studios. Outkast is performing or recording in the room next to you. You're literally dawn, and then you're working with Maya and everyone. And it's just like James, the kid in high school who's driving the Escalade, missing a tire.

[A]

Yeah. It was dark.

[B]

Was creating this music.

[A]

No AC in the Escalade, mind you. And I also worked at Bloomingdale's during that time.

[B]

I remember that because that's how you got all your fits.

[A]

Yes. So I would go from Bloomingdale's to the studio. Yep. Talk about a scene change. And I would have to wear a different outfit to drive to work because I would be so covered in sweat by the time that I got there from the no ac, I would be fully drenched. And I have to change into our work outfit and then go to the studio and then, of course, hit Waffle House on the way home.

[B]

Now, would Paula did on. Did he know that you were A and like or just A, graduated high school and B, understand that you were just like this kid in Atlanta, or did you lie and tell them that you were older, Give him a different backstory? I can't remember.

[A]

I didn't tell them that I did because I, at that point, I wanted to be a fly on the wall. I wanted to be a sponge. So I told them that I wanted to be in music, but I didn't tell them I could sing. And someone at the Studio found my MySpace page, and I had clips of me singing on my MySpace page. And they showed it to Polo and he. One day I came in for work and he. They were like, polo wants to see you. And I thought I was getting fired. Yeah, I was like, did I fuck up the, you know, the big ziti order yesterday?

[B]

Like, james, you're so sweaty and it' making everyone uncomfortable.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, you stink. And so I was terrified. And I walked in there and he was like, is this you? He has this really deep voice. He was like, is this. You pulled up my MySpace page? And I was like, did you panic? I panicked. Panicked. But I was also like, I knew I had it like that, you know, I knew that I was, you know, a hop, skip and a jump away from being the next Mariah. So. Right. So he was like. He was like, you're really good. He asked me to come in and record a song. He was like, I want you to record a song. And I. I blew it.

[B]

You never told me this.

[A]

Yeah. I didn't show up.

[B]

What do you mean, to record?

[A]

He. He wanted me to record Lights, Camera, Action. Yeah. Which was about. It was about filming a sex tape.

[B]

And.

[A]

Wait, that's what the song was about? It was like a playful New Kids on the Block recorded it, by the way, and put it out. So it's on a New Kids on the Block album. We can pull it up right now.

[B]

I want to hear. I need to hear it.

[A]

Okay. But this is a song he wanted me to record. He was like, we're gonna film a video because you're funny. Like, you're gonna be in the video, like, on the. On the bed, like, performing.

[B]

You're like, I'm 17.

[A]

I was like. I was like, I'm barely 18. Yeah. I'm deeply in the closet. I'm very heavy set. I will not be on the bed rolling around, singing this song in a music video. And I just knew. I was like, this is not my moment. I was like, I. I think there was something in me that was like, I need to get out to la. I need to come out of the closet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I need to do my therapy before I can do any of that and be in front of people. I just knew it was the wrong situation. And so I, like, I, I that situation up and just didn't show up to the session.

[B]

Do you ever talk to him now?

[A]

I haven't talked to him in a few years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But he would remember me like, yeah, the kid.

[B]

The sweaty kid.

[A]

The sweaty.

[B]

The sweaty kid who didn't show up for your day of recording.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember when you called me and. Or no, we had come back from, like, Christmas break or something. Something. And you're like, so, I like men. I was like, yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Could have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Knew that.

[A]

I used to say I liked men because I couldn't say I was a flaming homosexual. So I would say, I liked men.

[B]

I like men.

[A]

I like men. I thought that was, like, classier.

[B]

And I remember just thinking we were at Jay Alexander's at the Forum. And I was like, james. Yeah, sweetie, I know, I know.

[A]

At least I didn't say I'm bi first. You know I didn't go that route.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I went straight to I like men. Huh?

[B]

And I said, honey, I, I, I figured as much. There were sleepovers that we had that I, I was never felt threatened.

[A]

Oh, no, you weren't. You were, you were in a very safe space.

[B]

I'm pretty sure there were times where I was getting mustard off. Like your neck roll. And you were doing the same for me.

[A]

Definitely with a face mask on.

[B]

Always with the face mask on.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'll tell you what, being abroad and having my hair under different water, it has really messed up your girl girls frizz game. And that is why as soon as I get home, I am reaching for my K18 peptide repair hair. Because you know what it does? It repairs hair on a molecular level. It is patent. Okay? K18 peptide is patent. They have a molecular repair mask that has changed the game. So you can keep using bleach, color and heat. Whatever you want to use, they have it. And you can still have soft, strong, bouncy hair. I love K18 products. I use it on the road, especially when I'm putting so much heat on my hair. I love their shampoo. I've been using their Detox shampoo and one of their repair conditioners. Absolute game changers. Again, it's K18's molecular repair mask and the patented K18 repair hair on a molecular level. What you need to do is shop at Sephora or get 10% off your first purchase at K. That's K like 18. So the number is18hair.com. 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Absolutely not. That's Nutrafol.com spelled N u T R-A F o L.com promo code. Absolutely not. Again, that's Nutrafol.com promo code. Absolutely not. Get gorgeous luscious hair with Nutrafol. Nutrafol.com. so you start blowing up and you're making all this. What was your moment in music where you thought, okay, this is it, like that one single or that one record that you got on where you knew it was going to change the trajectory of your life?

[A]

Okay. Yes. So I wrote a song for Bieber. I've written a few songs with Bieber for Bieber, by the way, but my first one ever was on the Believe album and it was called take you Ooh. And I remember finding out that he was gonna record it and being like, oh, this could be like a big moment for me. And then the album came out and I just remember getting like a lot of phone calls from people, like people back in Atlanta. And I was like, oh, this is like a moment. And then he performed it on the Billboard Music Awards.

[B]

Insane. Insane.

[A]

And it was like my first big moment of being like, oh, I was in the room writing this song and then here it is on this huge platform with this huge artist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I went on to write a couple more songs for him on purpose. On the Purpose album.

[B]

I mean, company, Company, Company is every time that's on my top five songs of all time. It's so good.

[A]

It's. I'm really proud.

[B]

It's a ride. You're like, you put that on and you're. You just can't.

[A]

It's a dolphin out the window.

[B]

Amen, baby.

[A]

It's very. That's that.

[B]

And then who else? When you and then so after Company, it just starts to trickle.

[A]

So it started. That's when it started. Like, not the floodgates opened because it was a very slow thing for me. I had a lot of little successes. I wasn't one of those, like songwriters that had this massive huge hit. And then it was like, boom. It was like, for me, it was like little things like, it was like Derulo Bieber.

[B]

Then you did a song with Kygo.

[A]

I did a. Well, yes, I did a song with Kygo. And the whole, the whole tea with that is. Is. I was sick as a dog when I got invited to work in the studio with kyogo.

[B]

Really.

[A]

And my whole thing was like, I knew that if I sang the shit out of the song, I knew that if I sang it so good that no one else would be able to do it, that they would keep me on it. And so I was fighting this fucking cold in the studio between each take, hawking up and steaming and having tea would record like line by line by line. Cause I knew I was. Was like, if I. If I do this, they're gonna keep me on the song. And sure enough, they did. And then I got to tour with him for like 2 years. Perform main stage at Coachella Bay, Chella, by the way, the same year as Beyonce on the main stage, you came to Atlanta.

[B]

It was not shaky, was it? Shaky. Shaky beats. Yes, shaky beats. And he's like, I'm doing my song with Kygo. And I was backstage and we're staring at it, you know, 20,000 people with KYGO. And I just remember having this moment going and like, James is doing it. I'm so proud of you.

[A]

And this was right before you blew up too, which was so cool because then like a year later I was at one of your shows, or a couple years later I was at one of your shows in la, fully sold out, lying around the block going, this is. This is what dreams are made of. Eat your heart out, Hillary Duff.

[B]

Amen. Now I am all about an oral manifestation. A some sort of auditory way of expressing what your goals are. We talked about this over Jordy Martinez the other day, but I believe, even ask, believe, receive, achieve. What is. What is the. The 10 year goal? I took my shoes off.

[A]

I might. I just realized you were.

[B]

I'm. I'm full raw, dogging it. I'm hoping this is going to get us more views. I can't. You know what I mean? Today I'm in my.

[A]

It's fine. Yeah, the. The feet community, the foot community will Will be showing up for you.

[B]

Yeah. Wiki feet. I'm.

[A]

I'm all for it.

[B]

What is. What is the end goal? Because you're. Here's the thing that people don't realize. And, and, and maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but walk me through what it's like to be a songwriter and producer and kind of how that works, because you have to wear a bunch of different hats. But then you're also your own artist.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And why now come out as your own artist?

[A]

Well, I feel in my spirit, like.

[B]

Yes. And first of all, when I.

[A]

When I got into music, it was very taboo to do both.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes. People would be like, you're a songwriter. You go over here in this box. Okay. You. And if you. If you had, like, an artist project, they would speak about it as if it was like the Ugly Stepsister, you know, it's like very sort of like, oh, yeah, he's a songwriter, but he does his artist thing.

[B]

Kind of gross. Yeah.

[A]

And so people would. And I knew that. So I. And I also think I was, like, not fully evolved, comfortable with myself, was in therapy and all that, just trying to be the fabulous queen that I am today, but I wasn't there yet. So I think earlier iterations of me wanting to do my artistry was kind of like. I just knew it wasn't ripe right. It wasn't. It hadn't. It hadn't. It wasn't. It was in the crock pot. It was simmering, but it wasn't all the way there. And so now. Now it is.

[B]

Now it is.

[A]

Now it is now.

[B]

I, you know, comment on everything, and I'm just tickled. I get a tickle in my taint when I see you online. But you really blew up on TikTok a while ago. And of course, everybody in the music industry knows you people when. I like Jackie Schimmel's husband, Andrew. You've done songs with him and Andrew and Always Talk. And that's actually just. I'm going to say this out loud. Andrew James and I are going to get into the studio and we're going to write the comedy album together. Andrew, do you hear that?

[A]

You hear that?

[B]

Jackie, do you hear that? I don't care if you're crowning. Your husband will be helping me write my comedy album. Okay. He'll produce it, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you and I are going to do the beats and the song and all that.

[A]

Let's go, let's go. So we're doing it.

[B]

But you did a call almost Like a call and response on TikTok and it fucking blew up. And I was like, thank God people are hearing your voice. James, I'm not just saying this because you're sitting on this couch. You are one of the most talented people I have ever met. And to say that I have talented friends. Your voice gives me chills. And if you don't sing Ave Maria at my funeral and then sing any of the Pussycat doll sits, I will come back and haunt your ass.

[A]

I. I am doing it. Which one do you want as you're being lowered?

[B]

Oh, that's a good question.

[A]

Loosen up my buttons.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh my God, a piano version. No. Nonetheless, less.

[B]

Yes, exactly. And I want acapella. I want a dramatic, operatic. I got loosen up my buttons, cuz if you bury me in tight pants, I'll be so pissed. Let me go to my final resting place.

[A]

You want to be comfortable.

[B]

I want to be in a.

[A]

She wants one job of hanging out. Well, thank you for saying that. Girl, you are so talented. That means a lot to me. And yeah, it's cool. I've. I was. I've been trying to get out algorithmic favor for the longest time, just posting, posting, posting, posting. And then one day, my. One of my best friends, Sarah, who you've met. Sarah, Sarah Hudson, she's an icon. She's written some amazing songs. But her and I, we write a lot together. We wrote the Cher song together, which even getting to say that is such a gag.

[B]

And let everybody know. The Christmas Cher song that you wrote.

[A]

Yeah, we wrote a song called DJ play a Christmas song for Cher, which was a number one. And yeah, I'm like, she's one of my best friends. But she was the, like, there's this Katy Perry challenge blowing up on TikTok. You need to do it like you're. It's gonna go viral. I feel it. Yeah, she's another one. She's very connected. Like she's tapped into some like, thing. Very witchy vibes. So I was like, okay, I'll do it. Didn't do it. A couple days later, she's like, girl, are you gonna do the fucking challenge? And I was like, yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. Like today. Didn't do it again. She text me again the next day. She's like, if you don't do that fucking challenge, I'm coming to your house

[B]

and beating your ass.

[A]

I'm coming to your house. I was like, fine, I'll do it. So I did. Did it, Posted it Went like, crazy viral. And then it's just ever since, it's been great because I finally have people that are, like, paying attention to what I'm posting.

[B]

And you won your first Grammy this year?

[A]

Yes. Well, with Durand, I worked on. I was nominated for R B song of the year this. This past year with Duran Bernard for a song called Overqualified. Who, by the way, Duran Bernard is incredible if you don't know about him.

[B]

Unreal.

[A]

Let me put you on funny, too.

[B]

Another funny guy.

[A]

Diva. A true diva. Queer. Just fabulous. Just so talented. Can sing his ass off. And then he won for R B progressive album of the year.

[B]

And he had a viral moment because we were telling me about it. He had a viral moment because he was in the bathroom when. When he wanted.

[A]

He was sitting in the back seat of the auditorium because he, as. He said he didn't think he was gonna win. And so when they said Bloom, he was like, shook. Jumped up and had to run all the way down the auditorium. And that Grammys auditorium, that's no joke. It's a big fucking. You know, it's a lot. It's a long. So he went viral, and it's now a meme on, like, everywhere on TikTok of him running up to the stage and he's like. He's like this. He's like, literally, it's the craziest thing I've ever seen. He's just fucking hilarious.

[B]

I mean, and. And that's the thing too, is, like, when you were tapping in, you're like, I want to be funny. I want to be able to be my own artist and show my talent and do the creative work. But I. You also. We all want to giggle, like, let's not take this so seriously.

[A]

We have to be so polished, so exur. You know, but it's a very millennial urge to want to be like. You know, it's very. That it's like. But we. We are breaking out of that.

[B]

And I'm sure it's frustrating because we have other friends in the music industry that when you come out with a new album or a single, that the record label is so up your ass that if you. It doesn't go viral on TikTok, like, they're not gonna do. Put any money behind the album.

[A]

Right? It's really frustrating. I mean, I. I'm not speaking about my label specifically because they're supportive and love me, but I have worked with artists in the past that a lot of them have the same gripe. It's like, they're all data driven. These labels are all data driven. They're just numbers. They're crunching numbers. They're like, they're not doing artist development in the same way that they were during, like, the 90s or early 2000s. Like, that is a thing of the past. Artists are developing in real time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like, you see one have, like, a wonky performance, and then the next time they perform it, it's a little better. And so it's completely different because, you know, when fucking Whitney came out, out the gate, that bitch was developed down like she was. Yeah. So it's just a different time. But it's. It's really. It's frustrating at times because everything is like, it's gotta go viral. It's gotta.

[B]

I mean, even now, like, I started in. In that space of being online, and then I was on the road doing the craft that I had gone viral for, that I wanted to do that. I started in, and then I. My team was like, you're not doing enough online anymore. I was like, well, we have sold out shows. Like, but you have to maintain that audience. And I had to go back and rework that. And now I'm like, I'm ready to put on wigs again and be fucking characters and do what I love because I see all these kids doing, and I'm like, that's what I started in. But that was the. The vessel to get me to go do the standup and do the live shows. It's always a catch 22. You do the thing to get what you want, and then if you don't go back to the thing, then you can't continue to do what you want. So it's just this vicious cycle of go, go, go, go, go.

[A]

No. You are so masterful in, like, skit comedy. And I love when you do the pit bull bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love all of the characters you've done over the years, and I'm excited to see more of that from you because you're so good at that.

[B]

Well, I. I don't. I'm not going to say anything on this because I don't want to jinx it yet until the flights are booked. But James was with me when I got a phone call from a certain someone. Yes, yes. So we'll talk about it. I can't talk about it right now. We'll tease it. James, who is the number one artist, if you got to collaborate, sing with. Right. With that, you would just fall out, be like, I've peaked. I need to retire now.

[A]

There's no point in going forward because.

[B]

Because this is the greatest joy of my life.

[A]

Well, you know, I'm a lamb through and through.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Mariah would be a big one for me. Just in a bucket list like she's. I love me some Mariah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Beyonce. I'm also in the beehive. I'm trying to think who else. Like those might be my top two girls. I mean, Rihanna.

[B]

Yeah. Will she ever come out with new music?

[A]

I hope so. Yeah.

[B]

Hope so.

[A]

I've heard one can dreams, but we'll see. I'll believe it when it. When it's out.

[B]

And you have a new single coming out this week.

[A]

I have a new single that's out now. Right now. Airs.

[B]

Oh yes. Amazing. It's going to be out next.

[A]

Next week. I think so. Yeah. I have a new single. It's called Memories. It's out now.

[B]

Can you play a little? Yeah, can you just play a little bit? But if will that us up on YouTube. If he plays his own song. It's his song.

[A]

Yeah, it's his song. And I think we have like a time. I think you can do like a five seconds or something.

[B]

Just hit us. Yeah.

[A]

I'll hold it away from the speaker too. So a little distorted.

[B]

Yeah. This is Memories by J. Hart.

[A]

Okay. This is Memories. Hold on. Here she is. Oh, I'm going take it to the chorus.

[B]

Yeah, yeah,

[A]

Here it comes.

[B]

So good.

[A]

Right?

[B]

This is the summer beat. Hey. All right, all right, perfect.

[A]

So that's all you got.

[B]

That's James's song. So YouTube, do not take that down. That is his song. He.

[A]

Right. YouTube. Do not.

[B]

So what happens when a single drops?

[A]

What do you do? So it is different now than it used to be. Now there's like a bunch of social stuff you do. So you do like street interviews, you do performances on other people. You do collaborators with like other tiktokers and things like that. I. You do traditional press too, like interviews. And. And the goal for me is like I wanna have a radio moment. Cause radio is still.

[B]

Still big.

[A]

It's still big.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And obviously wanna be Grammy nominated.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I wanna perform on a late night show. Great. So those are my three goals. This era.

[B]

We're gonna make this happen. You heard it here first. We want a radio moment. We want a late night show and we wanna.

[A]

What was a Grammy nomination?

[B]

We want a Grammy nomination. And that's gonna happen because he's James motherfucking Aberhart. And I think we should close it Again by just singing the chorus for bombing nights together one more time.

[A]

Get ready. Okay, but what key are we in? Because.

[B]

Well, I don't. I just follow my key cuz I gotta go.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Bombay nights on my mind Looks so

[A]

wrong Looks so wrong Looks so wrong

[B]

okay, we'll start over. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Bumbay.

[A]

Nights on my mind look so wrong feel so right Indian spies hold me tight Give me one of them Bombay night

[B]

Ladies and gentlemen, you can find James and his new single, My legacy. His legacy Memories everywhere. You can download music.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And where can people follow you online, James?

[A]

People can follow me on TikTok @J. Hart J H A R T no E. And on Instagram, J. Hart music. And I think J. Hart music on other things as well, like X.

[B]

And it's his birthday this week and he will be out in the mean streets for LA Pride.

[A]

Girl, I will be out in these streets out in these streets it's gonna be a blur.

[B]

What kind of lover is your vibe?

[A]

I don't discriminate. Yeah. I don't have a body preference. I don't have a height preference. I don't really. I just want someone with.

[B]

You're like out of prison.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. A clean track record with good credit. Someone who's good to their mom with a cute smile. Cute eye. Dimples are a plus.

[B]

We love a dimple.

[A]

And a great. Just to be able to, you know, shuck and jive.

[B]

Shuck and jive. Shuck and jive.

[A]

Just to be able to throw it back to me a little bit.

[B]

That's the thing too. You need to know if you come hang out with James and I, we are 85 year old women at heart.

[A]

Beyond.

[B]

And we have been that way since the beginning.

[A]

Beyond.

[B]

We will never change.

[A]

Barrel through and through.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Honey.

[B]

We're soft surroundings. We were Talbots before Talbot knew what it was.

[A]

Proper.

[B]

We're Boston proper.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also Boston Market. Miss that. Oh, God, that Mac and cheese.

[A]

Big shout out. We didn't even tell the Anastasia story.

[B]

Wait, hold on. We got to add that.

[A]

We gotta tell the Anastasia.

[B]

You're not forced out of here.

[A]

Okay. Okay, so. And I'm. She just followed me on Instagram recently, by the way. And I sent the screenshot to Heather and I was like, oh my God. Anastasia followed me on Instagram. And the reason this is iconic is because when Heather and I went to the UK, you were 17, maybe 18. You. But you know, you had grown in. You were, you were.

[B]

I was tall. I looked 35 when I was 12. And and. And I worked it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was underage.

[A]

She really did get us.

[B]

We used to go to a nightclub in Atlanta and Wesley Snipes was always in the booth next to us. And I was like, 15. But continue.

[A]

So we go to London, and you at one point had put on these sort of gradient glasses. And I remember thinking, you know, you kind of look like Anastasia to be left outside alone when it's cold out here. We love Anastasia.

[B]

We love. And I kind of can hit her notes. You know, I've got that deep voice.

[A]

Yes, you got the diva kind of diva. The chest capacity for it. So we were in London and I was like, you know, you kind of look like Anastasia. And then immediately I start going into, like, Kris Jenner, you know, businesswoman mode.

[B]

Pimp her out.

[A]

I'm like, okay, you know what we're gonna do? We are gonna put you in the middle of, like, a crowded street, and then the four of us are gonna run up to you. Like, we don't know. We don't know. We weren't with you. And we're gonna say, anastasia, Anastasia. Give us an autograph. Can we take a picture with whatever. So we did it. Executed it flawlessly. People started crowding around Heather thinking she was Anastasia. And we did this bit. I mean, we repeated this bit all over London. Oh, yeah. Everywhere. Any chance we got, we tried to

[B]

do it back in the States and they were like, who?

[A]

Yeah, it did have the same effect.

[B]

Are you Brooke Hogan? I'm like, I am not. I am not. But we love Brooke.

[A]

Another icon.

[B]

Another icon.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yes. And so Anastasia. So you sent her a voice memo, though.

[A]

So I sent her a voice memo. Because another thing, for some reason, we decided that you're so delicious.

[B]

That was gonna be my single.

[A]

That was her Anastasia single.

[B]

That was it. Yeah, that was. That was the song that we wrote for Anastasia.

[A]

Yes, it was you as Anastasia.

[B]

And that was I. We were trying to think of a catchphrase with people like, is that you? I would just say, you're so delicious.

[A]

Yeah. And that would immediately, oh, it's Anastasia.

[B]

It's Anastasia.

[A]

So I. When Anastasia followed me on Instagram, I sent her a manic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Three minute voice note of this story, and she didn't respond. But we. We love you, Anastasia.

[B]

Anastasia, if you're out there, we love you. I have been pretending to be you since I was 15. You are everything to us. James and I want to take you to lunch, please. Because you know what? You are so delicious.

[A]

And we love you. And it's cold out here.

[B]

Oh, period. James, I love you. Thank you for being here.

[A]

I love you.

[B]

I know you have to get to a writing session. I got to get to a writing session. I'm writing a script. You're writing a song. Everybody download, stream, buy, purchase memories, go stream memories and stream. And I love permanent. That's also one of my other favorite songs.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

James has got hits and I love you, I mean it. And everybody follow him on Tik Tok and just blow his up because he deserves everything. And I'll see you at the Grammys, baby.

[A]

Love you, girly.

[B]

Love you. Bye. You guys can find us again at The Absolute not podcast, 800-213-7503. I'll see you on the next episode. Ciao bella. I ever go to thanks so much for listening to today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe, rate us and leave a review. And as always, follow me on Instagram at Heather K. McMahon. See you guys soon.

[A]

Here.