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- [00:00]
A
The following podcast is a dear media production.
- [00:07]
B
Welcome to the Absolutely Not Podcast, where we do the most and the least at the same damn time. I'm your host, Heather McMahon. Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to another episode of the Absolutely Not Podcast. I'm your host, Heather McMahon. How are ya? Hope you're having a wonderful week. Very excited. We have a very special guest in house today, and she's about to join us, and I thought I'd just give a little intro. We had been dming back and forth for quite some time. Two fellow Southern gals. You know, just two southern gals to like to yippy up on the Internet. And it just so happens she's had a hell of a week in the. And we were talking to the incredible CNN reporter. She has a show called the Source on cnn. It's the one and only Kaitlan Collins. I'm so excited to talk to her about what it's like to be under such insane pressure. Does she sleep as she covers the White House and the craziness that is going on in the world while keeping us informed, staying absolutely chic? I have a lot of glam questions. I have a lot of world questions, and we're gonna get right into it. So please, let's have a giggle and let's be informed and have a great conversation. Please. Welcome to the studio and Kaitlan Collins. Caitlin, welcome to the podcast. This is really an exciting moment, and I just want to preface this. You are a professional journalist. I am an active, breathing clown. Like, that's what I do for a living. So I hope anybody watching this, I know that the pressure is on, but I hope anybody watching this knows that I'm going to keep it regular Heather style. I'm not changing it just because you've had a hell of a week. But we've had this in the works for a while. Just two southern gals DMing back and forth with mutual admiration for each other. And it just so happens that you were coming in on one of the wildest weeks that you've had.
- [02:01]
A
I know, I know. Talk about timing.
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B
Talk about timing.
- [02:05]
A
I know.
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B
I never realized I was going to be getting the Kaitlan Collins exclusive, right? Yes.
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A
My first one on one.
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B
Your first one on one.
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A
After.
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B
After the President of the United States was like, hey, can you smile? But we are smiling here today with Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlin, tell me everything. How are you doing? I know you're running on two hours of sleep. You don't sleep. You came in from D.C. last night.
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A
How are you?
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B
Sustaining this schedule.
- [02:26]
A
It's insane. And first off, can I say, you have so many fans at cnn. Like, when I told people I was doing this, they're like, what? It's like you're meeting, like, Gandhi. Like, they are, like, so excited. I just think, like, people at CNN are like, so online, and they love media and podcasts, but they also, like, love outlets of stuff because we cover so much serious news day in, day out. So I think people just, like, love listening to you. They find you to be just so hilarious. Anyway, so every time I told someone this week I was doing your podcast, they were like, what? Yeah.
- [02:54]
B
Well, it's like, if you're in the White House and you're dealing with the way the world, you're like, who else is having a worse week? And then you just click on my profile and I've, like, split my pants. And it's like, this is just me.
- [03:03]
A
You're, like, in St. Bart's and I'm like, jesus, I wish I was there with her.
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B
We'll go on a St. Bart trip. Don't worry. We will go on a trip.
- [03:08]
A
Good.
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B
How are you sustaining the schedule? Because one minute you're on Air Force One, one minute you're doing the Lord's work in the press room, and then you're in D.C. you're in New York. I mean, are you exhausted? How is the cortisol? We're doing a wellness check. That's actually. This is actually an intervention.
- [03:22]
A
Well, I wear one of the sleep rings and I like, when I ch. Check it, sometimes it's like, are you okay? Like, when we were in Davos recently covering the president, you would truly sleep, like, in two hour increments when you're on these, like, foreign trips to the President.
- [03:34]
B
Right.
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A
And so, like, you're basically just napping periodically, like when you can. And so, like, anytime I would check my ring, it's like, you're dead. It's truly like, wtf? Like, it doesn't even know how to register the score because it's like, oh, you had a nice nap last night.
- [03:48]
B
I had to get rid of my aura ring because my scores were so poor. And I would be on like, melatonin and trazodone, like, doing all the things to put me down like a horse, and I still would wake up. And then, then it's like your. Your readiness score is a 35. And then you have heart palpitations all day because now you're anxiety, you're stressed.
- [04:03]
A
Because it confirmed that you didn't sleep because it confirmed.
- [04:05]
B
And then you're just in this vicious cycle, this hamster wheel of never knowing if you're well or not. Can I ask you specifically about going on these trips? Specifically to Davos. So it's called a pool. And I hate to ask such elementary questions, but truly I don't understand how it works. You go on these trips because you're in the media pool. Is that correct? And then when you're traveling, I mean, you're already traveling to Europe, but then you're not sleeping because he doesn't sleep, or you're just constantly have to be on to get that clip.
- [04:31]
A
So it's actually not elementary. I think a lot of people don't know fully what the pool is, but basically it's so you can have a smaller contingent of reporters that are always with the President. Every president has this. And it's like one TV reporter, one radio reporter, photographers, camera guys. And so we were the pool for the Switzerland trip. So basically you go to the airport to. To join Base Andrews. You get on Air Force One. We were leaving, I think, at like 9 or 9:30pm that night, and you take off and you're flying there, but you kind of have to stay awake because he might come back to talk. And so you're kind of like half sleeping, but you're never really fully. It's like half resting because you don't want to fully close your eyes. Because if the President comes back, you want to be able to ask questions and gaggle. This past time, though, that is wild.
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B
You're literally waiting to yip yap with the President.
- [05:18]
A
Okay. Yeah. And sometimes they serve you dinner. The team on Air Force One, it's amazing. The Navy, and they'll serve you like dinner, like on a normal flight, but then he'll come back and like, you're just. Your dinner's just sitting there, like getting cold while you're like talking to the president for like 45 minutes. And then you're like transcribing his comments. Then you've got to get them out to make sure everyone can have it in case he made news. So you're just kind of always on edge. It's not like being on a normal flight where you're like putting in your AirPods and you're going to sleep. Amazing food, actually really good. And they always do things cute. Like I flew on Air Force One on Father's Day and they did like a cute little Father's Day thing for all the dads. So that part is fun. However, I Think, people think. On Air Force One, it's just like, this glamorous lifestyle, and it is a huge privilege to be clear. Like, I would never, ever complain about it, because every time you get on, you're like, oh, my God, I'm flying on Air Force One. This is amazing. But we were flying to Switzerland. We got on the plane and it was very cold. Like, we were also in our heavy winter coats, and I was like, why is it so cold on this plane? Like, anyway. And the lights go out, and it's kind of dark, and we're like, this is really weird. They haven't even, like, you know, like, we've been on the plane for, like, 10 minutes. They're turning the lights off. And then, like, 45 minutes in, Caroline Levitt came back and was like, we actually have to turn around and go back to joint Pace Andrews. There's an electrical issue on the plane. And you're thinking, they didn't check this.
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B
Before we took off.
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A
But my fear actually was when you were in the pool and you're in the back of the plane where the press sits, there's no wifi, so you actually have no access to the outside world. When you're on Air Force One, unless there's an emergency, you can make a call, and you'll call to, like, the bureau, and then they'll call all the other bureaus, and. But basically, I could not tell anyone why we were turning around. And I know people flight track Air Force One.
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B
Right.
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A
So my fear in the moment was, oh, my gosh, people are going to think there's, like, a huge emergency and we're turning around, and we're not gonna be able to get it out to anyone. There was an electrical issue, so we couldn't make a phone call. So I'm, like, panicking the whole time until we're, like, on the ground. And then they've, like, switched the airplanes, which they did in, like, a heroic manner and time, but it's crazy. And so then finally, by the time we're taking off, you know, no one's asleep because we're all kind of, like, wired from what just happened. And then you get to Switzerland, and we truly went from that airport to a chopper ride through the mountains and then the president's speech immediately. And then you're live on tv, like, right after. So you're kind of just, like, you.
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B
Know, truly in fight or flight.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You're just rolling with it on an adrenaline rush.
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A
I was laughing because in the. We just switched to the smaller plane And I'm sitting right next to our two photographers that are. That are with us from cnn, who are amazing and, like, truly my favorite on our team. But there's one bathroom on the plane, and we're in the back where it's like, us and Secret Service and some of the staff. The White House staff is using this one restroom. So I needed to redo my makeup because it had been, like, 12 hours, and I knew I was gonna be on TV right after. So I'm like, well, I'm not gonna hog the bathroom because that's so rude. Everyone's trying to, like, brush their teeth and get ready, so I'm, like, sitting at my little seat doing my, like, a get ready with me, basically. And there's no wifi. Everyone's just sitting there still, just watching me, like, curl my eyelashes. And I'm like, okay, this is. This y. Yeah.
- [08:24]
B
You're like, might as well see. She's just a girl's girl. At the end of the day, she's like, I'm just trying to put on a strip of fake lashes on Air Force One. So you do all your own glam for on camera or.
- [08:33]
A
No, it depends if I'm on the road. Yes. But if you're, like, in the bureau, we have an amazing team, which is great because it actually is so vital because, like, you're on your phone, you're checking email, like, you're calling sources. Like, it's actually a huge blessing because you're doing so much stuff that, like, you don't really have time to do it. But during COVID we didn't have hair and makeup, really. And so you just learn to do it yourself. I think any TV reporter knows how to do their own hair and makeup because, like, if you're on the road a bunch, you're just doing it yourself.
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C
Yeah.
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B
I mean, it's. It's gritty.
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A
No squad that's coming with you.
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B
I mean, listen, I do stand up comedy, and people think that I travel with the squad. I'm like, no, you're on your theater, kid. I got the hot rollers in, and I'm gluing on the lash and the 11th hour.
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A
Yeah. This is not Real Housewives. This is not Real Housewives.
- [09:13]
B
Like, in tacos. Okay. Wow. So. So. And this is what I think is so refreshing is like, seeing behind the scenes. Like, I have visited the White House a couple times and had other friends who are correspondents. And, like, actually being in the press room, not what people see on television. It's truly A tiny room, and you'll have, like, one espresso machine in the.
- [09:33]
A
Back, like, thanks to Tom Hanks.
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B
Tom Hanks, Yes. And I. I told one of our other friends. I was like, what can I send? I mean, I'm. Whatever you need, I'm happy to send to keep y' all happy. So I don't care. I'll send the fancy Breville. Like, whatever you need. Just tell me.
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A
What. What.
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B
What does the press want?
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A
I mean. Well, and to be fair, we actually just renovated the press room, so even, like, you saw that, you're. And it's like, that's the renovated version of it.
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B
Because that's the renovated version. The version I saw.
- [09:58]
A
When did you come?
- [09:59]
B
Like, two years ago, I think it.
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A
Had just been renovated. Yeah. Yeah, it just been renovated. Okay. Now, like, new seats and everything.
- [10:05]
B
Now I'm worried, because it wasn't that great. Okay.
- [10:07]
A
It is way smaller, though. That is the number one thing that everyone says, because you see it on tv, and I think it, like, projects bigger. But when you're there, you realize how intimate the room is and, like, how close you are to whoever is speaking, the press secretary or the president, and you're all kind of crammed in there, like, where our seat is on the end, and so people are kind of standing over your shoulder. I love the press room, though, because, I mean, that was where. When I started covering the White House, I would just hang out in the briefing room for hours, like, waiting for the briefing to start and trying to get a seat.
- [10:36]
B
Is it kind of like you're, like, edging your way in? And did you always know that you wanted to be reporting on politics and specifically the White House? Like, when you started out in journalism, where did you think your career was gonna go?
- [10:47]
A
I had no clue. And I always tell this when I talk to young people or people who are graduating. I even have a little brother who's graduating. And I had no clue what I wanted to do, especially when I went to college. I was a chemistry major. You were a chemistry major, which is insane. I almost failed out of chemistry 102, which is why I changed majors. My sister is a chemist, and so I was like, oh, I can help. No, I would call her for help, like, every night with my homework. And so I was truly flipping through this course catalog, like, not even online, like, the Physical Book one summer after freshman year, and I saw journalism as a major, and I always loved to read and write. And so I was like, I'm gonna just try this. Like, I don't know, I really didn't enjoy school before this. I was, like, not having. I mean, I loved college, but I wasn't going to class and feeling like I'm really learning. Learning something that, like, I didn't know before.
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B
Right.
- [11:37]
A
And I switched to journalism, and it totally changed college for me because I loved going to class. Yeah. Like, I never missed class. I had developed relationships with my professors. I'd go to their office hours, I'd get coffee with them. I would, like, seek out their help. And it truly does matter. Finding something that you want to study or that you want to do. And so I did that and political science, and then I just moved to DC for an internship right after I graduated. Like, I didn't have the promise of a job. I lived with a roommate off of Craigslist. Like, I had this really kind of crazy looking back on it and reflecting now scenario, but I just. I just wanted to try something. And I think when you're young, you have so much time ahead of you. I think people think I need my dream job and my dream career at 23, and that just. That was not the case for me right off the bat. And so I just wanted to try something. But being in D.C. and having studied political science, like, it just kind of came natural, you know? And you're kind of around this, and you're seeing senators and lawmakers all around town, and everyone's talking about what's happening, and you just kind of get pulled into that world.
- [12:42]
B
Yeah, everyone I know that graduated from the University of Mississippi with me moved to D.C. and became a lobbyist. Like, that is the move.
- [12:49]
A
It was like, oh, really?
- [12:50]
B
You went from the Sigma Newhouse to D.C. and became a lobbyist first? God only knows what. Yeah, I mean, I feel like that was the move. And did you enjoy going to the University of Alabama? Because we're just two SEC girlies at the end of the day, we're just, you know, absolute arch rivals. I mean, I'm surprised we're even sitting here and breaking bread together.
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A
It's because it's not football season.
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B
It's not football season. 100% true. We're like, we haven't played each other in a very long time.
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A
I know, I know.
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B
And I feel like after our last season, even some of my Alabama fans were like, well, actually, we're. We're rooting for Ole Miss. I was like, thank you so much. But you loved going to Alabama. And you're from Alabama originally. Yes, a very small town.
- [13:25]
A
A small town right outside Montgomery called Prattville and my whole family still lives there. And I loved the University of Alabama. I mean, I go back probably two or three times at least a football season. Yeah, I try to go to as many games as possible. I'm like a pretty rabid fan. I mean like Nick Saban is like my background on my phone.
- [13:43]
B
Wait, I show this directly to camera. This is amazing.
- [13:46]
A
My dad's like, I think it's time to change. He's been retired for two seasons now. And I'm like, no, I think it's good. I think we should keep it. You know, I'm friends with his daughter.
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B
And she will text me.
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A
Kristen.
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B
Kristen's the best. Shout out to Kristen.
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A
And she's so funny and she's got a great fashion sense.
- [14:00]
B
She's got a great fashion sense. And I've gotten to meet Nick before And he and Ms. Terry are just, I truly idolize them. I'm just, I think Ms. Terry is possibly one of the coolest women on the planet. I mean she just really holds it up, holds it down. But so shout out. Shout out to Ms. Terry.
- [14:14]
A
We love the Sabins.
- [14:15]
B
Yeah, love the Sabins. Okay, so you moved to dc, got a roommate off Craigslist and you just.
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A
Who I'm still friends with, by the way. That sounds like so like horror movie setup. He was actually an amazing roommate. I loved him.
- [14:27]
B
Listen, we all, I moved to New York. We did the same thing. If you didn't have, in the early aughts, if you did not have a roommate from Craigslist, you were actually living your best life. Right. So you get, you move to DC and what was your first job in dc?
- [14:40]
A
I was an intern at the Daily Caller, which was like an only online publication. They had like a raft of interns that came in every summer and we were all just, you know, I mean we had, I just think you need to figure out how to have like a job. I mean I'd had jobs for, but like never like that was my primary thing. Like I always had like side gigs at, in college and stuff. And so it was really, it was just kind of instrumental in learning how to like live in a different, live in a real big city and like live away from my family and away from my friends and like the sorority house in college. And it was really instructive, I think, and really formative for like a 22 year old. I think it's a good thing to, to move away and try something totally different and just, I don't know, see if you like It.
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B
And I go and speak to women all the time. Like, I go back to my sorority and I talk to them and they're like, what's your best advice? I'm like, get out of Mississippi for a little bit. Like, you have to go see the world. You have to go figure it out. Even if you move away, you can always come back.
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A
Always go back.
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B
You can always go back.
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A
And I don't know if maybe this was your experience, but I grew up in the south forever. And, like, I'd love some, but. But not in any great length. I appreciated the south more going back.
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B
Yeah.
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A
After I moved away. Because I was like, oh, there's these. You know, I'd go home and I'd be in the Publix, and you walk down the aisle and someone says hi to you and they're like, how's your day going? What are you shopping for in D.C. like, everyone has their headphones in. No one's looking at you in the aisle. You might as well not exist.
- [16:02]
B
If you don't think that I have an intimate relationship with my current pub sub Publix worker, you must not know me. I know I moved back to the South. I live in Atlanta and I love it. I've lived in New York, I've lived in la. And you know, as much as we're on the road, it is nice to go back and have like a sense of community. And I'm still best friends with, like, the girls that I went to high school with, you know, and it's nice just to be back in the South. I will always champion the South. I mean, clearly we have our problems and we've had our problems in the past. But the good when you are find your community. There's just nothing better than a true Southern hospitality.
- [16:34]
A
And the food is insane.
- [16:35]
B
It's insane.
- [16:35]
A
Like, I go back now. I mean, I used to drink. I used to like, not drink water. I don't think growing up, I just had sweet tea. Like, sweet tea was my water. Basically.
- [16:43]
B
When I was hungover in college. College, I would go to this place called Nukes in Oxford.
- [16:46]
A
Oh, I love nukes.
- [16:47]
B
Love nukes. You get a 40 gallon sweet tea. I wondered, I was like, those cups.
- [16:51]
A
That are like this big.
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B
You get a commemorative cup. I'd have a Caesar salad thinking I was being like thin. And then I'd have 10,000 calories of sweet tea and wonder why I put on 50 pounds my freshman year.
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A
Right.
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B
But that's just how we lived.
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A
I know. I mean, this sweet tea, like Now I drink it and I'm like, this is a dessert. Yeah.
- [17:08]
B
Like, this is immediately gives me gout. Like, how, how did I handle this?
- [17:11]
A
I don't know. But like, it's the fortitude of just growing up like that. I think if you just drink it all the time. I love going home now, though. But like when I go home, if I'm home for like five days at Christmas, like I just was, I'm like, okay. It's like fried cornbread, like fried green beans. Like, I'm watching my mom make this hash brown casserole and I'm like, holy shit.
- [17:28]
B
Oh, man. There's nothing better than. You wake up Christmas morning and you've got a hash brown casserole with giant chunks of like Jimmy Dean sausage in it and 40 pounds of cheese. And you're just like, I'm probably not going to shit for a week.
- [17:41]
A
But sour cream.
- [17:42]
B
Sour cream. Oh, never a dollop. They always say a dollop of sour cream. Four and a half cups of sour cream on top and you're like, this is it. I'm gonna. My gut floor is ruined, but I'm going to be completely satisfied.
- [17:52]
A
Yeah.
- [17:52]
B
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- [22:59]
C
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it at progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and Coverage Match Limited by state law. Not available in all states. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your Bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
- [23:41]
B
So you're finding your footing in D.C. and then you get the gig to be officially in the White House. And when you get that call, are you just like, did you. I mean, listen, I still have imposter syndrome and I played Radio City and there are days where I walk outside or walk out on stage, I'm like, this is the most insane thing. Why would anybody want to sign up to do this job? To go out on stage in front of strangers and make them laugh. Do you ever have like an out of body experience while you are asking one of the most powerful people in the entire world? Like, you're fighting to get your elbows in and get your questions out? Are you ever like, what am I doing? Is it ever like an insane moment to you? I mean, you're so incredibly talented and just a force to be reckoned with in the White House. But are you ever like, like, what are we doing here?
- [24:25]
A
Yeah, but I think that helps put it in perspective, you know, because I think just the way I grew up and, and you know, being there and, you know, I think when I go into it, I think of what does like my family care about? What do people in Alabama care about? People who are just, you know, have nine to fives, they're not on Twitter. Like, they have jobs, they have kids. I try to like have that actually inform my approach that it's not just, oh, what are you reading online? That's the outright outrage today. It's like, what is something that people are actually talking about that people really care about? And actually, I mean, speaking of what happened this week, when I was home for Christmas, I mean, the Epstein files was a thing that so many people were talking about, people who are not online in a way that actually really struck me. It's something that completely broke through in a way that not everything always does.
- [25:11]
B
Right.
- [25:12]
A
Obviously there've been a lot of stories like that recently that have, especially with Minneapolis, but I think it just informs my approach of, you know, what do real people care about when you're asking these questions and like you are in a position of privilege to ask the President of the United States questions or ask the Treasury Secretary or the Pentagon, the Defense Secretary, I mean, all of these people, I think you just have to always keep that in mind that like you are doing, you're there on the behalf of other people asking these questions and doing that. It's not about, you really, can I.
- [25:40]
B
Say thank you for holding your ground? I mean, you always do. You're, again, a force to be reckoned with. But it was so wild to watch that entire situation go down. I mean, I mean, you were like, no, I'm asking about survivors. And I thought you handled it so beautifully. What was your physical response in that. That moment? I mean, you were just stoic.
- [26:01]
A
Well, I mean, I've also covered Trump for 10 years, so he doesn't really surprise me that often with his responses. And so it didn't really faze me that much because, one, you know, he's not liked my lines of questioning before. And I've had that moment. But I think, and I'm always, always maintained this and thought this when covering him. But any president and any, anyone who's in a position of power funded by taxpayer dollars, when they're trying to argue with you or belittle you or criticize you, it takes away from the point of the question and it deflects from what you are actually trying to ask. And so if you engage with that and you get in that tit for tat or, you know, about me not smiling and whatever, which obviously I don't. It's not a laughing matter. I don't think to talk about sex trafficking victims, and I've interviewed a lot of these women who were underage girls at the time, and their stories are powerful. And so I just think in that moment, I was thinking the question is about what these victims think. It wasn't even anything accusatory of Trump himself, which I think in itself is revealing of how he thinks about it and how he is viewing it through the lens of himself. But the point is to ask about what the victims and the survivors thought here. And so I just thought in that moment, this is more important to stay focused on this and to remind him, you know, this is what I'm asking about. It's not about me. It's not about me smiling and my expressions.
- [27:23]
B
Right.
- [27:23]
A
It's about what these women think, about what your administration has done. And so I think that's why that moment resonated with so many people, because just the issue at hand, I mean, if it had been something else, I'm not sure it would have resonated as much. But the question is about women who were survivors of sexual abuse.
- [27:39]
B
And I just don't understand how you keep your composure, because I obviously would have popped off. I mean, and of course, you're a true professional, but how anybody in that press room doesn't Just want to, like, whip off their hoops and just say, like, what are we doing here, truly? Like. Like, break the fourth wall and just say, like, cut the bullshit. I mean, how do you keep your composure?
- [28:02]
A
Because I think you don't want it to. To get away from why you're there or what you're asking about. And I think if you get in an argument with them, you know, they always argue the media is biased against them and doesn't cover them fairly, even though we cover them, I think fairly inaccurately. You wanted the focus to be on the subject matter and not on you personally as a reporter. And so I always try to, you know, keep that distance in terms of that. And I think keeping your composure and that point is important because you never want to prove them right on that front that they. They are right, that you're biased against them or that you have a personal, you know, angst here. I don't.
- [28:38]
B
Well, that's the line that he loves to use all the time. The entire administration is just like, you know, oh, it's fake news. It's fake news. It's fake news. And I saw something the other day that was like, our brains were never wired to be able to handle this level of a news cycle, how it changes so quickly. And just as a true, like, just citizen of the world right now, a civilian, if you will, it is so overwhelming. Like, you wake up, and I almost don't even want to open my phone because it's just like, what awaits me? What awaits me? And it almost feels like, you know, I am very outspoken on subjects that I'm passionate about, but especially with this Epstein, this whole Epstein file, it's like, what is gonna happen? It feels like nothing will happen. And I'm like, why, as a woman, as, you know, somebody who's sitting back and observing this, why do I feel like I can't do anything or nothing is going to happen to the people that have inflicted so much pain on all these victims? I mean, it's horrific what has happened, and yet I feel like nothing's gonna happen.
- [29:32]
A
And I also think when you read the emails, I mean, there's so much to read there. There's so much to unpack there. But you really do see this insight into this world of these incredibly powerful, incredibly rich people who were laughing about what Jeffrey Epstein was doing, or lauding him, or talking about how outrageous and amazing his lifestyle was that they couldn't talk about with other people. And then you think about these women and. And the Farmer sisters. Are two. There's many, many women I've spoken with who are powerful, but I just can't forget them, because Annie Farmer, Maria Farmer, they complained to the FBI in the 90s, and they never knew what happened. They never heard back from the FBI. But this was early on, before he had the chance to victimize so many other women. And the FBI never got back to them and just basically never responded to their complaint that they filed with them. And when the files were released, they never knew what happened to this. That complaint was in there. So the FBI did get it, and so they did know what happened, and they did see this, but they didn't take these women seriously, clearly. Wow. And I think just reading that, it devastated me. And we had Annie Farmer on, and she was so upset. She was crying. She did an interview with my. My colleague Jake Tapper, and just watching her feel vindicated because she's like, we did complain. We did put this out there. We put this in the hands of the people we were told to trust. And they let us down. And by letting us down, they let so many other women down. And I think that is what I keep in mind, you know, in a moment where the president is berating me for not smiling because it's like, this isn't funny. I mean, these women, their lives were upended by this. And I think so many people feel like you do that. They want accountability and they want justice for these women for what they went through. And they don't like when powerful people get away with things because they're powerful.
- [31:15]
B
And I think that anybody would say this is a bipartisan issue. Like, if anybody from either sides of the aisle is involved, they're all guilty.
- [31:23]
A
Right? Exactly.
- [31:24]
B
This surpasses party lines. And, yeah, I mean, we talk about it at dinner with our friends. It's just like, it feels like your hands are tied. You're inundated with new news. It gets more horrific every day, and there's nothing we can do. And, you know, as a comic, I try and bring levity and light and find moments of joy, and you kind of feel like you're almost just a clown with your head on a swivel. Like, I'm trying to go out and do my shows, and then I get off stage and I look. Look at what's going on. You're like, how? How do I fix any of this? What can I do to hold people accountable? And, I mean, listen, you know, I, like, fuck if I lose followers. I don't care. I will always try and stand on the right side of history. But it is a wild thing where people like, oh, don't talk about politics, don't get involved, don't get involved. I'm like, nobody wants to get involved. I mean, this is your line of work, but nobody wants to get involved. Talking about people who have been trafficked. What. The fact that we're even having to have this conversation is disgusting.
- [32:18]
A
I agree with you, though. I, I think it is bipartisan and I think in a world where everything is hyper politicized and it is one of those moments, and I understand what you're saying where you, because people do want to be able to go and laugh and get away from the world, and I understand that's like a tough line for you, but I, I think this is an issue that from what I, and I hear from so many people, it is something that I think everyone feels, regardless of party, whoever's involved, they should have to answer questions and talk about it. Yeah.
- [32:43]
B
If you have a pulse, this should, this should, should be concerning to you. Okay, so since everything went down this week, how do you go back into the press room? Like, what is your strategy to keep doing your job as well as you do?
- [32:56]
A
I think, I mean, we have an amazing team. I'm not just the only person on the CNN White House team. All of my colleagues are really, really great. And so I just think, you know, when we go into the Oval Office or in the press briefing, there's always like 20 things to ask about. It's never really, I mean, sometimes there's one overarching story that day, but there's always so much to ask about. And I just think, you know, I can't. I keep a running list basically. Like, if I wake up in the morning and think of a good question, I'll write it down. Or think of something that I, I'm like, that doesn't, that's kind of contradictory or we need to follow up on this and get clarity on this. You know, I'm just always trying to keep a running list basically of, of what's going on. And so it really can shift in the moment of like, you're walking into the Oval and I was thinking about this, like, the President had not really been asked about Jeffrey Epstein that often since the release of the files on Friday. And so that's why I was like, well, let's see what he thinks about this and let's, let's ask about this. So you're kind of just always, you know, prepared for, for anything because the news cycle changes. Every eight minutes, it feels like. Yeah.
- [33:55]
B
And I mean, listen, the, the hard pivot of, what was it like six months ago? You had the MAGA influencers walking out of the West Wing with their binders that says Epstein files, and then everything's redacted, and then all of a sudden, everything gets released. He's like, this was a hoax. Can't believe you asked about it. I mean, at some point, it's like the joke is truly on us, and I think that's how a lot of people feel. So as press, I, I, I really am commend you for keeping your composure. Truly, I, I thank God I did not take up journalism. And again, I don't know, it'd be.
- [34:25]
A
Really, it would be kind of fun to have you in the, like, hot.
- [34:27]
B
Takes with me where I'm like, excuse me, let's really break this shit up.
- [34:30]
A
I'd love to have you make, like, a guest appearance. The briefing group.
- [34:32]
B
Let me know, Let me know. I will be in a full Cheetah Prince suit. And the questions will be popping off. How do you deal with Caroline? I mean, because you have to, obviously, there's a fine balance because you are trying to do your job. You're having to deal with this administration. Like, what is she really like?
- [34:50]
A
Well, I think, you know, I've dealt with probably four Trump press secretaries now at this point, two during Biden. And so there's always a naturally tense relationship between the press and the press secretary because you're covering things that they're trying to spin in the best light for their boss. You're asking questions that maybe they don't want to fully answer. And so that is something that always exists. I don't think you should have an amazing relationship with whoever the press secretary is because it's just at odds with the nature of your job.
- [35:18]
B
Right.
- [35:19]
A
Reporters, you have to be a little antagonistic in terms of, you know, you're making people uncomfortable with your questions. You're not just asking things like, why are you so great? Or list all your favorite accomplishments. You know, you're, especially when it's lawmakers. And I think it's really, I mean, it just, the level changes, I think, when it's someone who's funded by taxpayers. So with Caroline Levitt, I think it's pretty similar to, you know, Kayleigh McEnany, Sean Spicer, other press secretaries that came before her for Trump, which is a difficult job in and of itself because Trump thinks he's his own best spokesperson. He is often the person you really want to ask the question to, because he will answer it in the way that he believes is, you know, how he truly feels on a subject. And so, you know, I never went into the briefing room thinking like, oh, they're going to love my questions. I try to be fair. I want to be. I never am trying to, you know, kind of be super antagonistic or try to ask something. It's genuinely a question that I have when I go in. It's a good faith question. And so obviously that leads to clashes sometimes when they don't like my. My question. Sometimes I actually think my question is not as, you know, confrontational as sometimes the responses. But then there have been other moments, and I. I've said this before, where. When we were in Saudi Arabia and we were on a foreign trip with the president and he came in with all the other leaders, including the Saudi Crown prince, they famously do not like the media there. And to put it lightly. And I asked a shouted question to President Trump, who had seen me when, when the US Press came in. He didn't answer, which is. I mean, that's how it works. You shout questions, they either answer. They don't their prerogative. And then the world leaders left the room. The Saudi Royal guard kind of freaked out because I dared to ask a question. And they're not used to that there because they don't have a free press. And so they came up and they said, okay, well, you can't come into the next event, which was like, two minutes later. And I was like, that's not how this works. I go on to the U.S. press. And they were like, well, you're not coming in. And I could see them, like, whispering and pointing about me. And. And some of the younger White House staff that are with the press weren't really sure what to do. And they went to Caroline, and to her credit, she said, no, Caitlin's coming in with the rest of the U.S. press. And we went in. And so it didn't become this huge issue because obviously, if I'd not been allowed in, you know, this is something that has happened with the North Koreans when the President visited the DMZ and Sarah Huckabee Sanders was the press secretary. And so to her credit, she without a doubt was like, no, you're coming in. Right. Which I do think is important in that moment, especially when you're kind of the US Contingent abroad, and we don't do things like they do in Saudi Arabia. Right. So, I mean, it's. It's a very nuanced Thing, I think.
- [37:58]
B
I mean, just the. The pressure alone that you're under to try and, you know, get the story. And also, like, okay, this. I'm gonna sound so stupid when I ask this, but, like, trusted sources and leads, like, how do you. With so much information out there, how do you sift through, like, what is real, what is not? I mean, truly, even with AI, like, so, I mean, I'm basically a boomer over here thinking everything's real on the Internet. So how do you sift through that?
- [38:26]
A
It is tough with AI Also, because I think you have to be really careful. And one thing I didn't learn in school, that I only learned in the real world being a reporter, is how to develop sources. I mean, that just wasn't something I learned in college. Like, I was covering things and I was interviewing people, but I wasn't developing people who trusted me enough to tell me information.
- [38:46]
B
Right.
- [38:46]
A
That maybe they shouldn't be telling me.
- [38:48]
B
And everybody in the south has, like, one uncle. You know what I mean? One uncle that's like a source of something. Yeah, everybody knows that. One uncle. In a town where you're like, yeah, no, call Ronnie. He knows what's up 100.
- [38:57]
A
Like, well, actually, I think being Southern helps make you a better reporter, because, one, you're kind of like, charm on. Yeah, well. And also, like, my mom used to call me the mouth of the south when I was growing up, because I just talked a lot and. And I talked back a lot, which was not a great attribute as a child. I think it's benefited me in adulthood. But, like, you talk a lot. My parents are very social people who just. They could talk for hours, and you're like, whoa. It helps as a reporter, I think, because you just are in conversation with people. You're talking to people. You're striking up conversations. You're calling people you don't know out of the blue who may not want to talk to you. And it's actually really fun to try to develop sources is have people who trust you because you do need them to trust you. You can't just call them for information. It's kind of something you develop and build. And then when there's really a moment where you need them to say, hey, I'm trying to get the best version of the story, the best, you know, most accurate version, we can get help. And that is something that you just kind of hone over the years. And actually having my own show has helped with that, because we have guests on who are experts, and they'll call and tell me, oh, I heard this. Or I heard the president is picking so and so for this job. And then you can kind of run it down.
- [40:05]
B
There's truly all about it.
- [40:06]
A
Who you know, you're just constantly talking.
- [40:10]
B
Yeah.
- [40:10]
A
Constantly messaging on the phone, checking in with people. It's kind of like plants. Like you're watering it.
- [40:17]
B
Yeah.
- [40:17]
A
You don't know when you're gonna need it, but you're kind of always checking on it, making sure it's okay.
- [40:21]
B
And then that one day you wake up on a Tuesday and you're like, didn't think I was gonna have to call this guy, but I need this source.
- [40:25]
A
Or they get fired.
- [40:26]
B
Right. Or they get fired.
- [40:27]
A
Well, girl, shoot.
- [40:29]
B
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- [43:42]
A
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A
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B
Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com. you said that you were on your way up to New York last night when we were talking off camera and you know you were. And I also, again, I don't know how you're here, I don't know how you're standing up because you never quit working. And you were in the car on the way up, it was 2 o' clock in the morning. And so you were getting the first break of things because Trump's up in the middle of the night just on his true social, just tweeting nonsense.
- [44:32]
A
So.
- [44:33]
B
And you were, you said you were like telling the slack group, like guys, this is happening in real time. And everyone couldn't believe that you were up in the middle of the night.
- [44:39]
A
Yeah. Cause you're always reporting is not a 9 to 5 job in any sense of the way, whether you're a producer, a photographer, reporter on camera. I mean, it's just constantly like non stop. And so, yeah, last night, so I was driving back after the show, Trump is posting non stop and he obviously famously doesn't really sleep that much, maybe like four hours a night, I think a little bit more now as he's gotten older, but it's still very generally very. Not much. I know. And he was posting like non stop, reposting a lot of things. And one thing he reposted at 11:44pm Eastern was this video. And if you watched the video, like a minute in there was like a racist image of the Obamas depicted as apes. And I was like, whoa. And it started to get some pickup online, but it's kind of late, obviously a lot of people are asleep. So I flagged it because I was like, this will blow up tomorrow, right? And it ended up blowing up. The White House initially defended it, then deleted it and said it was a staffer who posted it.
- [45:33]
B
And you're like, no, we know what was happening.
- [45:36]
A
Yeah, well, I mean, I just, I mean if it was maybe in the middle afternoon, but famously only a few people have access to his social media account. And it was, it was late at night, so he was in the residence. But anyway, the point is, I think like you're just constantly kind of monitoring things because it's not like, oh, at 10:00am the news breaks, like sometimes it happens 10 minutes before the show goes on air. And everything we've produced and scripted and all the guests we've lined up, yeah, they go out the window and then everything changes. And so I think one important attribute as a reporter is that you have to be able to adapt, adapt quickly to whatever's going on and don't get like, you know, some people will come up with a perfect list of questions and go into an event and something happens right before something happens in the moment. You kind of have to be able to watch for that and be ready for when it does happen.
- [46:23]
B
How do you have a social life? Like, I mean, are you able to date? Do you date? I mean, how, how do you find time to even go out for, you know, drinks with the girls? Because you, one, being in a constant 24 hour news cycle and two, just the way you travel and how much you're having to report.
- [46:39]
A
I really, understanding friends. One, I think that's a huge attribute because they have to be like, if I cancel on a trip the last minute, everyone's like, we get it. Yeah. Because I've done it a lot and I, I've never regretted it because I always think like, if I'm doing that, it's because there's a huge story that's happening. Like, I canceled on a friend's wedding once, which they still give me for, but I got a chance to interview President Zelensky in Ukraine at the last minute. And so, so looking back on that now, I'm bummed I missed the wedding, but it was worth it because it was a chance to interview a wartime leader.
- [47:11]
B
And I have to cancel on friends weddings because I'm doing like, watch what happens live. Hey, I'm a huge shout out to Andy Cohen.
- [47:17]
A
I'm a huge Bravo girl. So I actually. Totally, I think that resonates. Yeah. But no, I'm really understanding friends. But I actually think, yes, I do work a lot and all of that and I sacrifice a lot and I will skip a lot of like drinks or girls, nights outs or dinners, whatever. I do also do have a social life though, because I think it's important to disconnect and have time with your friends and my family is my biggest priority. If anyone calls me from my family, like I have a bunch of siblings, I'll answer immediately, no matter what I'm doing. Because I just think you have to pick your priorities. And so doing that is really good for me. I actually think it makes me a better reporter taking the time. I, I do try to prioritize sleep, actually. I take time to work out and you know, and spend time with people that I love because I just, I think that actually helps put me in a better mental space for when I am doing the work.
- [48:06]
B
Yeah, you're like, I actually have to go out and touch grass.
- [48:08]
A
Yeah, right.
- [48:09]
B
Because you are in this bubble.
- [48:10]
A
And I think anyone should do that. It's not just reporters, right? I think anyone needs to do that.
- [48:14]
B
I mean, I did that today. I literally went outside and I was like, the noise of the city, the everyone's honking. I had a bagel in my hand and I just had to take a deep breath. I just schlepped six boxes to ups. I'm dripping in sweat and I was like, we gotta take a deep breath.
- [48:27]
A
Right?
- [48:28]
B
Because it will consume, you know, And I still have to like, go do my job and you still have to be a human, right? How do you. And I hate to just ask such trivial questions, but the girlies want to know. Flawless skin. What is, what is our routine? What are we doing? There's not a wrinkle on this face. And I mean, having to get up, be on camera all the time. You can't look tired. Truly. How do you hold it together?
- [48:47]
A
I love those eye patches. I like use them non stop. Like if you see me walking into cnn, it's so funny because I have like soaking wet hair eye patches on. Like my sunglasses.
- [48:57]
B
Are we Korean? Beautying it? Like, what, what are the products?
- [49:00]
A
No, I don't know. I kind of use random. I'm always like changing my skin products. Like every time I run out I'm like, oh, let me try something new. I use like Kiehl's. I love their like moisturizer. I think it's great.
- [49:10]
B
I'm old school. Keels too. Yeah, I think they need. I don't know how they're doing, but Keels. The avocado under eye cream.
- [49:16]
A
Oh, I just got that again, actually.
- [49:17]
B
Eye cream you will ever use in your life.
- [49:19]
A
That's so funny because I just got that again and I'll just put it on. Like, I fly a lot, so I always pack stuff on the plane. Like, I'm not ashamed to do a bunch of moisturizer on the plane because I just want to like sit there while I'm like reading Twitter and at least let it like soak into my skin.
- [49:32]
B
Can you do a face mask on Air Force One?
- [49:35]
A
I haven't tried it. Oh, but you know what I did do? We were in London for a state visit and my show was on air till I think 3am we are called times 5am to go to this press conference out and checkers, which is like the Prime Minister's country estate. Anyway, it was really early and so we all go to get on the bus and everyone else has slept, but I've been up since, you know, until three doing the show. And so I get back on the bus, I have no makeup on, and I'm wearing the eye patches. And I have a photographer with me. I won't call him out by name, but he's the best. And he was like, what are you wearing? And I was like, they're eye patches. And he was like, what do they do? And I was like, they're just. I don't even know if they do anything. They just, like, make me feel better, right? And then all the Secret Service guys who are with us were like, what are those? Like, all of these guys were like, like, curious.
- [50:19]
B
Secret Service. Brushing out my hair extensions. I'd be like, dan, get in the back. I got a rat's neck.
- [50:24]
A
No. But I'm like, you guys need this. Like, it is so soothing to be able to just put these on for an hour. And I just wore them the whole bus ride.
- [50:30]
B
And then, like, you're like, I'm a human, okay? I'm exhausted. I'm trying to hold up the weight of the world and democracy on my shoulders by asking the right questions, you.
- [50:39]
A
Know, I just think you got to take care of yourself and, like, have no shame in those moments.
- [50:42]
B
What is in your. I'm getting on Air Force One. This is my survival bag. Like, what are you taking on the plane?
- [50:47]
A
I love those, like, face mists. Like, the sprays. Like, I use those probably twice a day just to, like, make me feel better.
- [50:53]
B
Definitely copious amounts of vitamin C. A.
- [50:56]
A
Lot of vitamin C. Oh, I take. I take so much vitamin C. Like, they have these, like, liposome packages. It's like a vitamin D. I don't.
- [51:03]
B
Even know what liposome means. I think it's just like, you fat soluble. But I will. And they. They're disgusting. It doesn't matter.
- [51:08]
A
It's not a great taste.
- [51:09]
B
It's not a great taste. And I. And I suck em down. It's like a thick jelly that you just have to just take down.
- [51:15]
A
Well, I'm always worried about getting sick because I. I do not. Like, I have serious FOMO with work. Like, if I'm off for. If I'm off for like, a trip or a friend's wedding, that's one thing. If I'm off and I'm stuck at home sick, like, it is actually the worst way to find me. Like, I'll never forget when I got Covid for the first time. President Biden was holding this big press conference. I think his first one since taking office. And I Was at home watching it. And like, to be home watching that while you're just, like, in your bed.
- [51:42]
B
Itching, you're like, yeah, like, it's.
- [51:44]
A
It's really not a good place for me. So I do take my health seriously. And I'm like, always, I will take a vitamin C pack before I get on any flight, anything like that, because I'm always paranoid about getting sick.
- [51:53]
B
Okay, so we got the eye.
- [51:54]
A
I wash my hands, like, 20 times a day.
- [51:56]
B
We got the keels, we got the eye patches. We got the liposomal vitamin C. You style yourself, and I love that we did a real hard pivot from, like, asking the president, but I also know that the girlies want to know. Yeah, But I actually think this is.
- [52:08]
A
Is important because I love reading about other people's routines and stuff, because I always get inspiration from. From it. Yeah. I style myself because I just think, you know yourself better than anyone else. And I also dress for comfort. Like, I don't wear dresses ever. Like, I wore a skirt to the White House maybe, like, six months ago, and people were like, oh, my God, she's wearing a skirt.
- [52:29]
B
Like, because I wear Talk of the Town. I wear a. Obama wore a tan suit. And that was, like, the craziest thing.
- [52:34]
A
That had happened that year.
- [52:35]
B
That was your tan suit moment. I. I miss the days of just being like, he's in a tan suit. Right.
- [52:39]
A
I know. And I love it. Anytime anyone wears a tan suit now, you're like, that moment.
- [52:44]
B
So they thought you were living on the edge because you had worn a skirt. Like, caitlyn's not doing well. Check her head.
- [52:48]
A
No, they're just like, that's so weird. And I didn't really realize it until everyone commented on it, but I think I just wear a suit every day. I wear a blazer every single day. I have 2 million blazers, probably because I just feel comfortable in it. And I think when you're covering the White House. When I started covering the White House, I was not sure what to wear on tv. I was kind of figuring out what my style was. I do not want to have to think about what I'm wearing. Yeah. Like, when I'm at work, I don't want to think about that when I'm going to the briefing room. I don't want to feel uncomfortable. I don't want to feel anything or even on air at night. Like, I want that to be the last thing that I think of because I'm focusing on other stuff. And it really aggravates me if I've put so much work into this interview or these briefing questions, and then I'm worried, like, about how my jacket's fitting or whatever.
- [53:28]
B
And men never have to worry about this. They have the same three jackets. I mean, and I know that some of the on air guys can be even more divas when it comes to, like, like, their beauty routines, but truly, like, men never have to worry about it. And I, I want to commend you too, and not just, not just for being a woman, but I'm sure the amount of that you have to deal with being a woman in this space, having to hold your own and then on top of it, dealing with. It's like, here you are interviewing President Zelensky, and then like, one on the Internet, she's like, show me your jugs or hated you in a blue jacket. And you're like, what are we doing here? This is living hell. How do you navigate?
- [54:02]
A
I mean, but I think all women deal with that.
- [54:04]
B
Of course.
- [54:05]
A
Like, truly, no matter what your job is, whether you're on television or not.
- [54:10]
B
I think T mobile and you're getting harassed.
- [54:12]
A
Well, I think that's why this. When the president was saying, you know, I've never seen you smile, I think that's why it resonated. Especially I had so many messages from women because I think so many people know what that feels like. And I think a lot of men who also were. I actually got a lot of messages from them, too, but so many, you know, when has a man ever been told to smile?
- [54:32]
B
Never. Never.
- [54:34]
A
Yeah. Or to smile more. And so I just think it resonates with people. And I think, you know, all of these things of, like, how you navigate this world. Luckily for me, I've been on TV for, you know, eight years now, and so it really doesn't faze me. Like, I truly have developed a thick skin because I'm just. I hear feedback all day long. Whether I get on a flight and it's the person sitting next to me or wherever you are when I go home to Alabama, like, you're just kind of constantly taking in incoming of what people think of you. And I think that's why, like, that is so true.
- [55:05]
B
You really just hit the nail on the head of what it is like to have a female experience. It is constant feedback. Wow, Caitlin. I. I mean, I try and say it on, on stage and I'm always talking about, like, you know, we, obviously, we can only speak from the female experience, but it is, it's constant feedback. When you, you didn't ask for it. It, you know, you're out here just trying to do your job and regardless of how you could cross your T's, dot your eyes, but somehow you're going to have feedback and it's like, I didn't ask you for feedback.
- [55:32]
A
Yeah, positive, negative, positive.
- [55:34]
B
So much different.
- [55:35]
A
Yeah, incoming. And that's why I just, I think of young women coming up and like, there's so much online and everyone's doing this product or this treatment or whatever. It's just overwhelming, I think, to, to do that. And that's why my point of having a close circle of friends and family, people that you trust, people that you love that, that you can go to and say, you know, what did you think about this? You can't take everyone's opinion right at the same level. And so I have a few people that I really value, their advice that are super honest with me and that's who I listen to and that's who I, you know, talk to when I'm like worried about how something went or if it went well. You cannot take everyone's opinion though at face value or, or whatever. And so I just think, you know, as a young woman, that is something you have to learn and develop because you want to have that thick skin, that confidence in who you are. Because if you're just listening to everyone, like you're listening to no one, like, it's just noise. It all drowns out. Wow.
- [56:29]
B
What is your, do you have like any sort of routine that you do before you're about to walk in and ask the President of the United States hard hitting questions like, do you have a playlist that you listen to to psych yourself up? Or is there any sort of like moment before that you have? Because we all have it. Like as performers, we all have that moment before we walk out on stage. I'm just curious if you have your special specific routine.
- [56:49]
A
I think one thing that I've learned is that you're not always going to be afforded that moment in the moment when you want it. And one thing about being on television that I learned, which has actually been, you know, really helpful in terms of just you figure it out as you go. And CNN is really good about that. Of like, you don't need to have years of broadcast experience to go be on air at cnn. Like, I truly none, like, I think I've been on TV maybe twice and they're like, okay, this is your job now. But that was actually really helpful for me because I mean, when you're in the briefing room, and you're. You don't have that moment of just quiet to sit there and think about your questions. You're standing up and you're doing TV and there's 50 reporters standing sitting in front of you, watching you, and there's someone standing next to you who's also talking, and you're trying not to listen to what they're saying while you're looking at the camera and delivering your report. And so I try to have those moments in the morning or before where, like, I've already got my questions, I'm already ready to go.
- [57:40]
B
Right.
- [57:41]
A
Because I want to be able to feel calm and confident in the moment of, like, here's what I want to ask, ask. But also if I want to pivot, I feel like I'm in a good headspace to do that. Like, I'm listening to what's actually happening and what they're saying, or if they don't answer someone else's question, I want to follow up on that. And so I think you have to find those moments for yourself, but don't always expect it to happen right before. I think you can find it in the morning or the night before or something like that.
- [58:05]
B
And how do you decompress, like, after walking? Specifically, what happened to you this week? Like, after walking out? Like, what are the other. Other press secretary, like, what is everybody else saying to you? Are they just like, you good girl? Like, I mean, what is that moment.
- [58:16]
A
After the press corps is amazing. Yeah. Like, I actually think that this is a misconception about the press corps, which is that we're all, like, battling one another. We don't get along. I actually love the White House press corps so much. And it's not perfect. It's not what? It's not. You know, obviously, like, there's a lot of criticism of it sometimes, and I don't think the press is above criticism at all. But I will say there's a lot of camaraderie in the press corps amongst reporters, photographers, the camera guys, audio guys, everyone. Because you're all kind of waiting in the briefing room. You're all sitting around waiting for something to happen.
- [58:46]
B
You're in the trenches together.
- [58:47]
A
Like, news is not always just like, bam, bam, bam. It's like you're waiting, you're waiting. Nothing happens. And then something happens really suddenly. And so you do develop, like, relationships with people. Like, our. Our CNN booth is right next to Fox News. Like, all the others are upstairs. Like, we're all just kind of chatting. We all Share a. We call it the Lavaterium. It's, you know, speaking of not being glamorous. Yeah. It's the kitchen, and the two bathrooms are in the kitchen. So, like, you're all just on top of one.
- [59:13]
B
And it's the size of these chairs. I've been there.
- [59:15]
A
It's tiny.
- [59:16]
B
It's tiny. I mean, somebody said heating up a Lean Cuisine while somebody else is having an upset.
- [59:20]
A
If someone heats up fish, we're like, are you kidding me? Like, it will, like, mutiny.
- [59:25]
B
What are the rules? It's like, listen, no more spaghetti rigatoni this week.
- [59:28]
A
Right. It's just like, you cannot heat up fish. That's like the number one.
- [59:31]
B
We cannot eat a fish.
- [59:32]
A
The briefing room will start to smell.
- [59:33]
B
Okay.
- [59:34]
A
But anyway, my point of that is, you know, I love the people that I report with every single day. The people on our team, the other members of the press corps, too. And so when you come out of a moment like that, there is a lot of solidarity. And I think a lot of people are like, you know, and I. I've known all these guys for almost 10 years now, and so I actually think there's a ton of camaraderie in the press corps.
- [59:54]
B
Yeah.
- [59:54]
A
In that sense, which I think is important, and that there should be, and you should support people who are, you know, doing the same job as you and just trying to do their jobs.
- [60:01]
B
I had, like, a visceral reaction when Trump tells one of the reporters on Air Force One to quiet down, Piggy. And is there a sense of camaraderie with other female reporters, specifically, like, hey, girl, you good? That's insane.
- [60:15]
A
Yeah. Yeah, there is. And I reached out to her after that because it's just inappropriate. And I think you have to at least say, hey, that's not cool. Or. I can remember when the President did this to Weijiajiang when we were in. In round one, and she asked him a question about COVID and he told her to go ask China that question. Oh, God. And she grew up in West Virginia. And so we just, in that moment, you know, and he tried to move on to me in that moment, and I was like, no, no, she has a follow up. And I'm gonna let her follow up because it was just like, you can't, you know, someone has to stand up for it and, you know, have a backbone in that moment. Because if you don't in that moment, one, it sends a message to the press corps, but also it sends a message to everyone who's watching. Yeah. And I do Think solidarity is important. I don't think everyone has to ask the same question. I think reporters can ask what they want to ask. They showed up that day. But I do think following up in solidarity is effective and it only furthers all of our jobs and mission.
- [61:14]
B
Well, I just want you to know that it is such a pleasure and a joy to watch you stand your ground and just honestly be a badge. And I know that you are truly every day just doing the Lord's work and putting out fires. And I just wanna ask just kind of like a beautiful question at the end of what do you do when you have. What does Caitlin do for a day off when you're turning off the news? You're the world. And I know you said it's very hard for you to sit at home, even with COVID and take a day off, but what are you doing to refill your cup so that you can continue to do this insane job which is the 24 hour news cycle and standing up to the president.
- [61:48]
A
But you know, I love a quiet day because my odd days are so insane. So if I am just home in my apartment, like hanging out, like can work out, can chill, can. I love to read, books to read, go out with my friends, have a few drinks, like I love just like a chill, normal day.
- [62:04]
B
I want your drink of choice. Tells a lot about a person.
- [62:06]
A
Oh, I'm actually kind of in like a phase. Like sometimes I love a dirty martini. Yeah, I'm in a big champagne phase right now.
- [62:13]
B
Same.
- [62:13]
A
I don't know why. It's like a 2026 thing for me.
- [62:16]
B
Okay. We're champagne girlies.
- [62:17]
A
So it kind of depends if I'm at a football game. Obviously, like it's bourbon. Only after halftime, of course. My rule with my dad. So it kind of just depends on where I am.
- [62:25]
B
So she's getting out. If you see her in town, send her over a glass of champagne. Listen, I want to say thank you so much for coming today. I know you've got to get back to like saving the world, but I. And I almost feel so stiff because I was trying to be so professional and you're such a wonderful, real person. And thank you for even just coming and chit chatting with us. I mean, truly, somebody's going to listen to this episode and then they're going going to listen to the next episode and be like, how did Heather get this interview? But I think it's interesting. We're at the end of the day, we're just two gals and we had Been Dming for a while and, and you know, Southerners see other Southerners and I had been like, you know, I need to know what kind of hair care we're doing. Are we using the Dyson air wrap? And now here we are and I.
- [63:02]
A
Just got the Dyson air up.
- [63:03]
B
I love, I love that shit. Yeah, but don't ever take it to Europe cuz it's expensive and if you plug it in even with an adapter it'll blow up and then you're really going to be pissed.
- [63:11]
A
And then you're like lugging around this air up. Yeah.
- [63:14]
B
And then it just, it did. The, the, the watts don't convert and it's, it's very. I, I've bl.
- [63:18]
A
I feel like if we are doing AI and we have all these LLMs, like we can figure this out. Right? You can take your dice into Europe or anywhere.
- [63:26]
B
You should be able to figure out how to take your Dyson to Europe. But you know, they're, they're. The world's not fighting for women, it's against us. And you know what? You heard it here first. We are going to figure out how to get the Dysons to work in Europe. Caitlyn, thank you so much for being here and I say you really have a fan in me and I, I enjoy watching your show and I find you just so incredibly refreshing and keep holding your own girl. Keep holding it down for the rest of us. We appreciate everything you do. And Caitlyn, where can everybody follow you?
- [63:53]
A
The feeling is mutual. Aitlincollins I'm on Instagram, I'm on Twitter. It's much nicer on Instagram I think.
- [63:59]
B
But it's a lot safer on Instagram. Honey, thanks for being here and I know you gotta get back to the White House.
- [64:05]
A
Thank you.
- [64:06]
B
As always. Guys, you can call in. We had the absolutely notline 800-213-7503 and I just want to, to say thank Caitlin for being here and what a refreshing conversation and I truly am a sponge just trying to absorb all this. But thank you guys for being here and we'll see you on the next episode. Chiabella and Overdochi. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe, rate us and leave a review. And as always, follow me on Instagram at heatherkmcmahon. See you guys soon. I want to flip the moon Hop.
- [64:39]
A
From train to train I feel the.
- [64:41]
B
Vibration taking control of me Shines alight so bright it plays out like a symphony.
- [64:49]
A
I can hear it instantly, Sam.