Listen Now: Being Trans

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Add to Cart with Kulap Vilaysack & SuChin Pak"
Episode: Listen Now: Being Trans
Release Date: February 18, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Being Trans", hosts Kulap Vilaysack and SuChin Pak delve into the multifaceted experiences of transgender individuals navigating personal relationships, career challenges, and societal perceptions. Through candid conversations with guests like Chloe Corcoran and Jeffrey J., the episode offers an insightful exploration of what it means to live authentically while addressing both triumphs and tribulations faced by the trans community.

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Guests Introduction

Chloe Corcoran is a 39-year-old trans woman from Rochester, New York, now residing in Los Angeles, California. Working in higher education, Chloe shares her journey of self-discovery, particularly focusing on her efforts to find meaningful romantic connections in a new city.

Jeffrey J. identifies as a trans man and has been actively involved in the stand-up comedy scene, especially within college circuits. Jeffrey discusses the interplay between his career aspirations and personal life, highlighting the unique challenges he faces as a transgender comedian on the road.

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Navigating the Dating World as a Trans Person

Chloe opens up about the complexities of dating after transitioning. She recounts her recent experiences with blind dates and dating apps, emphasizing the emotional toll of rejection and the constant need to prove her authenticity.

Chloe Corcoran [07:35]: "Dating as a trans person has been incredibly difficult. I'll match with people and then they'll read my profile and quickly unmatch, or I'll be talking with someone, and they'll become distant once they realize I'm transgender."

This sentiment is echoed by Jeffrey, who shares his own struggles with forming genuine connections amidst societal biases.

Jeffrey J. [07:35]: "Sometimes they default to being awkward or even hostile once they confront their true feelings about dating a trans person."

The hosts and guests discuss the broader implications of these experiences, touching upon the internal and external conflicts that arise when seeking love and acceptance in a world that often marginalizes transgender identities.

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Balancing Career Aspirations with Personal Life

Jeffrey delves into his career in stand-up comedy, detailing the rigorous demands of touring and performing solo. He reflects on the loneliness that accompanies extensive travel and the challenges of maintaining sobriety on the road.

Jeffrey J. [21:22]: "Stand-up is great, but I don't feel like it's a forever thing. Being on the road is already crappy enough, and you're the only one to keep yourself accountable and sober."

Chloe relates to Jeffrey's experience, sharing her own journey of acclimating to Los Angeles and seeking friendships within the trans community to mitigate feelings of isolation.

Chloe Corcoran [04:36]: "I'm trying to meet people. I'm on a lot of dating apps, but it's been interesting to think about how the dating game has changed and how I kind of missed out on it."

The conversation highlights the delicate balance between pursuing one's passions and fostering meaningful personal relationships, especially within the context of transgender experiences.

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Personal Growth and Self-Acceptance

A significant portion of the episode focuses on self-acceptance and personal growth. Chloe discusses overcoming her insecurities related to her identity and body image, emphasizing the importance of self-love in attracting healthy relationships.

Chloe Corcoran [54:54]: "There are so many obstacles to trans dating, but the only way anything is ever going to happen is if I keep showing up for myself."

Jeffrey shares his transition from stand-up comedy to aspiring TV writing, illustrating his commitment to personal and professional development despite setbacks.

Jeffrey J. [50:51]: "I'm going to focus on writing. I'm going to work on some of my original scripts and keep submitting to things. Eventually, something's going to happen."

The hosts and guests underline the significance of resilience and proactive self-improvement as essential components of living authentically and pursuing one's goals.

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Confronting Rejection and Moving Forward

Chloe narrates a particularly challenging date where she was stood up, detailing her emotional response and the subsequent support from friends. This segment underscores the pervasive issue of rejection in the dating experiences of transgender individuals and the importance of supportive communities.

Chloe Corcoran [37:30]: "I am just getting out of here. Oh, Chloe, I'm so sorry. What a dick. I'm trying really hard not to let this get to me, but it's kind of getting to me."

Reshma Sajani, acting as a co-host or moderator, offers compassionate insights that help Chloe reframe the experience, reinforcing the narrative that rejection is a reflection of the other person's shortcomings, not her worth.

Reshma Sajani [37:32]: "If he's gonna do something like this, then I'd rather you not date him because he's a jerk."

This conversation serves as a therapeutic dialogue, illustrating how supportive interactions can aid in overcoming personal setbacks.

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The Role of Community and Support Systems

Both Chloe and Jeffrey emphasize the crucial role that community and friendships play in their lives. Chloe discusses how her new friends in Los Angeles have been instrumental in helping her acclimate and feel less isolated.

Chloe Corcoran [04:32]: "Mariana, who's stopping by tonight, is one of my first friends here and she's introduced me to some other trans people through her meetup circle, and they've been really important in helping me acclimate to my new city."

Jeffrey talks about finding solace in his friendship with Emma, highlighting the importance of having a steadfast support system amidst the chaos of touring and personal challenges.

Jeffrey J. [44:10]: "Emma's actively working towards her dream of being a helicopter pilot, but at the same time, she keeps our future in mind and makes it a priority."

The hosts discuss how these support systems provide emotional stability and encouragement, enabling individuals to thrive despite external pressures.

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Conclusion

"Being Trans" offers a nuanced portrayal of the transgender experience, focusing on the intersection of personal identity, relationships, and career ambitions. Through heartfelt discussions and personal anecdotes, Kulap Vilaysack and SuChin Pak shed light on the resilience and strength inherent in the trans community. The episode not only highlights the challenges faced but also celebrates the ongoing journey towards self-acceptance and authentic living.

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Notable Quotes

• Chloe Corcoran [07:35]: "Dating as a trans person has been incredibly difficult. I'll match with people and then they'll read my profile and quickly unmatch, or I'll be talking with someone, and they'll become distant once they realize I'm transgender."

• Jeffrey J. [21:22]: "Stand-up is great, but I don't feel like it's a forever thing. Being on the road is already crappy enough, and you're the only one to keep yourself accountable and sober."

• Chloe Corcoran [37:30]: "I am just getting out of here. Oh, Chloe, I'm so sorry. What a dick. I'm trying really hard not to let this get to me, but it's kind of getting to me."

• Reshma Sajani [37:32]: "If he's gonna do something like this, then I'd rather you not date him because he's a jerk."

• Jeffrey J. [50:51]: "I'm going to focus on writing. I'm going to work on some of my original scripts and keep submitting to things. Eventually, something's going to happen."

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Final Thoughts

For listeners seeking a deep and empathetic understanding of transgender experiences, this episode of Add to Cart provides valuable insights and fosters a sense of community and support. Kulap Vilaysack and SuChin Pak skillfully navigate complex topics, making "Being Trans" a meaningful addition to discussions around identity, love, and personal growth.

Transcript

[Reshma Sajani]

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[Chloe Corcoran]

Hey Lemonada listeners. Today we're dropping something special on your feed. I'm Chloe, and welcome to Being Trans. When this series first premiered in 2022, it was the first of its kind. Reality TV for your ears. No scripts, no interviews. Just real life as it happens. And now, in 2025, it's more necessary than ever. On Being Trans. You'll follow me and three other trans people, Jeffrey, Mariana, and Sy, as we navigate our lives in Los Angeles. You'll be there for the highs and the lows, the messy, complicated, beautiful moments that make us who we are in a time when trans people are too often spoken about rather than listened to. But being trans is different. This show isn't about debates or headlines. It's about real people living real lives. You'll hear us as we figure out our careers, our relationships, our families, our health, everything that comes with just being. Stories like ours matter because representation isn't just about visibility. It's about understanding. It's about creating space for people to be seen for who they truly are. And that's exactly what this show does. You're about to listen to the first episode of Being Trans to hear the series in full. Search for being trans wherever you're listening right now, or click the link in the episode notes. My name is Chloe Corcoran.

[Jeffrey J.]

I'm Cy Clarke Chan.

[Chloe Corcoran]

My name is Mariana Marroquin.

[Jeffrey J.]

I'm Jeffrey J. And I identify as a trans man.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Trans woman, trans woman. I am transgender and non binary. A few months ago, a documentary crew started following me and a few other.

[Jeffrey J.]

Trans friends around, navigating everything from family.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Relationships, work, and more. There was always a story worth telling.

[Jeffrey J.]

And that's what you're about to hear. You'll witness moments alongside us and you'll get into our heads. On this episode, we follow Chloe.

[Chloe Corcoran]

It's because I have so little experience in the dating world for the most part, and I'm just open to all kinds of people.

[Jeffrey J.]

And we also follow Jeff. Oh, my God. Have you not seen that everybody's getting married right now. This is Being trans.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Be right there. Hey, how are you? So good to see you.

[Jeffrey J.]

So good to see you.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Welcome back. Thanks. I'm glad you came. My name is Chloe Corcoran. I am a 39 year old trans woman from Rochester, New York, working in higher education in Los Angeles, California. Oh, my God. Your place is so nice. Are you watching sports? I am. I have the baseball game on. Sorry, the place is not. I'm still relatively new to la and Mariana, who's stopping by tonight, is one of my first friends here and she's introduced me to some other trans people here through her meetup circle, and they've been really important in helping me acclimate to my new city. Nice. I got you something. Look. Oh, my gosh. What is this? Makeup. We can play with makeup. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. Oh, my gosh. This is fun. Like, I'm seeing you right now and I'm thinking, like, when we go out, maybe do some smokey eye and maybe lips, kind of like a nude, but very, like, glossy. Oh, I haven't done gloss and I haven't done the wings either. But I'd like to try both. I have those and make you feel, like, so ready to go out. Oh, nice. Like a superhero yeah. So how was your week last night? We had this party. Yay. And that's why I'm recovering. I'm still like, oh, my God. It was fun, but it was a lot of love, a lot of hugs. Yeah. A lot of good looking guys around. Yes. Shirtless over there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you ever go out? I've gone out by myself a few times. Okay. It's just because I don't know as many people here. So hoping to change that. Are you open to meet, like, people? Yeah, I am. I'm trying to meet people. I'm on a lot of dating apps and things like that. But I guess I grew up with like an idealized version of like, what dating would be like. Yeah. But I didn't date for so long while I was not dating, people moved into like a swipe culture or things moving a lot more quickly than maybe I was prepared for or used to, especially, you know, when I was first transitioning and things like that. So it's been interesting to think about. But like, that one hit me hard. I was like, oh, the whole dating game has changed. And I kind of missed out on it.

[Reshma Sajani]

Yeah.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Before I came out publicly, I didn't really see a romantic future because I wasn't being myself and I wasn't being true to myself. And I guess one of the reasons I ventured out to Los Angeles is because I am hoping to date and find a partner. On the flip side, dating as a trans person has been incredibly difficult. I'll match with people and then they'll read my profile and they'll quickly unmatch or like, I'll be talking with someone, like a guy or a girl, and they'll be like, do you want to get together? I was like, yeah, let's meet up for a drink. They're like, cool, your place. I'm like, no, I would rather, like, go out for a drink or coffee or something like that. Just to, like, get to know somebody a little bit.

[Reshma Sajani]

Yeah.

[Chloe Corcoran]

I mean, dating is sometimes they're very open about, like, you know, dating trans people. And sometimes they don't want other people to know.

[Jeffrey J.]

So you never know.

[Chloe Corcoran]

I struggle with that a lot. I really do. People get it on an intellectual level, like, okay, yes, trans people are real. Their experiences are valid. And then it gets down to another level where people aren't willing or ready to confront their attraction to trans people. And that's part of what makes dating so hard. Yeah.

[Jeffrey J.]

Yeah.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Because all these murders and everything that happened, like, many times they start dating and they Hate the fact that they love or attracted to a trans person. I mean, like, I believe that being trans in these days is, like, people. At least people know what's going on. Like, before, you had to make this whole explanation about it. Now I think people, like, are more aware. I think there's more options out there. Dating as a trans person is hard. And another thing that's layered on top of that is that I'm still trying to figure out my sexuality, which I guess is kind of open ended, even though I never would have admitted that before transitioning. All of this is pretty intimidating, and I'm hoping that a city as progressive as Los Angeles is the right place to figure this out. It's a lot of work. So much work. Yeah. I mean, I always think, like, nobody's going to knock at your door and say, like, hey, can I take you out? That has yet to happen to me. That has yet to happen to anyone I know. So, yeah. Yeah. You need to. To be out there and have that energy. Keep it open. Yeah, that was me last night. I was very open. Very open. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome.

[Jeffrey J.]

Hi, everyone. I'm Jessie J. Thanks for coming out tonight. I'm transgender. That's what I am. It means I was a girl and now I took some testosterone and now I'm a child. This is Jeffrey. I am on the road doing a string of shows on the college circuit. I've got four shows in 48 hours, and I've gotten, what, two done now? And I have two more left. I. I'm gonna do, like, a little Q and A thing. If you can ask me a question that I've never heard yelled at me before, I'll give you 100 bucks. Let's start with you.

[Reshma Sajani]

Have you had any surgeries?

[Jeffrey J.]

That's an awesome question. I haven't had top surgery, so I still have the boys, I call them. The boys don't gender my tits. What makes me different is that I have kind of a comedy Q and A where I challenge them to ask me questions about being trans. The students like it because they get to make the show whatever they want it to be. This week is definitely one of the busiest ones I've had in a while, but at least college kids keep it interesting. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go to Mardi Gras and I'm gonna flash dudes all fucking night. Because in my mind, a bunch of frat dudes waking up in the morning and being like, dude, what drunk? Or did that small boy Child have really nice tits. Thank you, guys. Have a good night. I'm pulling up the wrong thing. Emma, answer.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Hey, can you hear me?

[Jeffrey J.]

I can hear you. Can you hear me?

[Chloe Corcoran]

Yes, I can hear you.

[Jeffrey J.]

Yay. Me and my girlfriend Emma are navigating a long distance relationship right now because she is currently studying to be a helicopter pilot. So living long distance is hard enough as it is. But then with touring and being on the road all the time, it's hard to kind of match up schedules and just make time for each other. But I try to always catch her between gigs. Well, the show went really well tonight.

[Chloe Corcoran]

That's good.

[Jeffrey J.]

Yeah, it was good. It was like, actually a totally decent turnout for what it was. It was like 45 people at the. It went awesome. The people who booked me were, like, super nice. I warned them that, like, hey, it might get awkward. And they were like, we love awkward. So it was really fun. And now I'm navigating through the college town and all of its little roundabouts because it's hip and it's a college town and they got roundabouts and trying to get back to the highway so that I can find fly out in, I don't know, what, five hours. But I've got a two hour drive back to the airport. I've got to drop the rental car off, and it's not enough time. Even though they gave me a hotel room for tonight, I don't have enough time to stay there. So instead, I'm gonna go to the airport and I was going to try and, like, sleep there, but this airport closes from like 2am 5. The life of a comic is. It's insane. And while I know it and I've done it a lot, it never really gets easier. That's right. Yeah. I do have to go find a place and fill up so they don't charge me out the wazoo for gas at the rental car place.

[Chloe Corcoran]

All right.

[Jeffrey J.]

All right. Well, I love you so much, babycakes.

[Chloe Corcoran]

I love you too. I'll talk to you later.

[Jeffrey J.]

All right, bye.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Okay, so this is recording. That's good. This is Chloe. And I'm going to set my phone down here. I am putting on makeup, the makeup that Mariana gave me because I have a blind date tonight. One of my work colleagues set me up with someone she knows, another trans woman named Eve. And that is literally all I know about her. So we're gonna head to a restaurant up the street. Of course I want to smell good. A blind date, honestly, is a bit intimidating, but I like that we're meeting in a more organic fashion as opposed to being swiped right or left, in most cases, on an app. But I think it's gonna be good. I'm planning for the best. I'm hoping for the best. So wish me luck, y'all. Hello. Good. How are you tonight? Good, good. I'm all set with water and just waiting for my date. Okay. Thank you. Hello. Hi. How are you? I'm Chloe. Eve. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Eve walks up, and sure enough, she's gorgeous, which makes me more nervous. So can I get you guys something? Yeah, just. What, the pumpkin harvest, they call it. And I will do the Florida. How are you tonight? Doing well. How you doing?

[Jeffrey J.]

Good.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Did you find it okay?

[Jeffrey J.]

Yeah.

[Chloe Corcoran]

No, I can hear, right? Yeah, I'm. I'm in Sawtel, so not that far away. Oh, good, good, good. I'm just a two miles that way.

[Reshma Sajani]

Oh, all right.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Nice. Okay. I. I still. I don't know the highways that well here yet. I know that 405 and 5 are big highways, but I don't know where they go. Yeah, I know where they go. I just don't know their names. Yeah. Oh, we'd be a good pair, then. I know the names. You know where they go. Oh, there we go. We'll make it work. I'll drive and you navigate. I do that. Okay. That's me. Thank you. Which means this must be here. Yes. Thank you. Cheers. How was your day?

[Reshma Sajani]

Good.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Working, you know. I work in entertainment. I don't know. It's fun. I have a really nice boss. She's great. That's awesome. That helps a lot. Yeah. So how about you? So I work for Emory University, which is in Atlanta. All right. And I do their west coast alumni relations, and I go to school too. What are you studying? I'm studying higher education. Leadership, mainly. I just wanted to make my brother call me doctor, and he says that he won't, but if I get the degree, he kind of has to, I guess. I technically have a doctorate, but not a doctor doctorate. So a law degree. What. What made you decide to go to law school? Oh, well, I originally wanted to do LGBTQ rights law, and so, yeah, I went to law school with that in mind. It was like, rat. Rat came out. So I was like, you know, just like, oh, I want to, like, help the community, and, you know. Oh, very cool. Yeah. So not a. No one calls me doctor. I don't think. I don't think I have that ability. I think a lot about whether it'd be ideal to end up with another trans woman just because there are so many shared experiences and an understanding of the things that we go through that can be hard to explain to a cis person sometimes. Are you from LA? No, I moved here from D.C. back in July, so not that long. Yeah, not long at all. That's where I grew up, in Virginia. Oh, okay. I don't have any family there. My family's all back in my hometown. Like, everyone is back, which is Rochester, New York. Oh, Rochester. Yeah. I don't know that any of my family has ever left, actually. I think I'm the first one. Oh, really? I think I'm the first queer one and I think I'm the first one to leave. Yeah. I wonder if they're related. I am. I'm the first in a lot of ways for my family. I. Yeah, well, I'm definitely the first one to come out here to the west coast and, like. The first. Yeah. Like, gay person in my family and first person go to college. Oh, cool. Yeah. My family. I don't know what your family is like, but some of my family is, like, very Trumptown. Oh, yeah?

[Reshma Sajani]

Yeah.

[Chloe Corcoran]

I don't see much of my family. Yeah, I see my dad a little bit, and then my sister. I guess I'll see her a little bit. My brother and I have come a long way. My dad is quite conservative and very Catholic. My dad, I think, had the hardest time. Although also my dad's come around. You know, it took him like a year or so. Yeah. I generally don't talk a lot about trans stuff. I don't either. A ton. Yeah. Every now and then it's nice to. You. You're easy to talk to too, huh? You're easy to talk to. Yeah. Yeah, it is a little bit easier going into this. I was really nervous about how I'd even react. Would I be awkward? Because sometimes I default to that. So far, I think the date's going well. We again have some shared experiences and some things to talk about and seems to be relatively easy. Well, this was really fun. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Let's exchange information. Okay, great. Well, here, I'll get your phone number and then. Yeah, I'll give you mine and I'll text you and you'll have my stuff. Great. Awesome. Got it. Well, shall we?

[Reshma Sajani]

Yeah.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Oh, here, let's. It was so nice to meet you. You too. Thank you so much. Well, I'm looking forward to hanging out again.

[Reshma Sajani]

Yeah.

[Chloe Corcoran]

All right. Anyway. Sounds good.

[Reshma Sajani]

All right.

[Chloe Corcoran]

You too. Yeah. Anyway, have a good night. Okay. You too. Bye. Bye. So I think the date went well. She's a great person. I'm excited to see where this goes. And, yeah, I was nervous, but now I'm really happy.

[Jeffrey J.]

What up?

[Chloe Corcoran]

Hello.

[Reshma Sajani]

Sorry I'm late. I was like, I've never driven in Los Angeles rain before, and apparently no one else.

[Jeffrey J.]

It's really weird.

[Reshma Sajani]

It took me like, twice as long.

[Jeffrey J.]

I'm back in la, and my good friend Teresa's coming over tonight, and I'm honestly exhausted from the last round of shows, but, like, really looking forward to seeing a familiar face.

[Reshma Sajani]

Also, this is a random thing, but.

[Chloe Corcoran]

At some point tonight, if you want to go grab dessert, I'd be down and go grab, like, a slice of pie or something.

[Jeffrey J.]

Oh, my God. That would be amazing. Yes.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Okay.

[Jeffrey J.]

Teresa is the best because when I feel like I'm super overworked or busy, like, I just remember she's a doctor and, like, 18 other things, so she's the person I can bitch to about how busy we both are. I got in at, like, 2am last night from all those shows.

[Reshma Sajani]

What was it like on tour?

[Jeffrey J.]

I don't know. It's really rough. You go by yourself, you fly by yourself, you get a rental car by yourself, you get at the hotel by yourself. I think. I don't know. Standup is great, but I don't feel like it's a forever thing.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Oh, wow.

[Reshma Sajani]

Well, and how, like, when do you think that switched for you where you were like, I don't want to do this anymore?

[Jeffrey J.]

I think about six or seven years in is when I started to feel so lonely on the road. It's when my alcoholism got the worst of the worst.

[Reshma Sajani]

Well, you were doing, like. I remember you told me you were doing. You were, like, traveling for weeks at a time, right?

[Jeffrey J.]

Oh, my gosh. That's the worst part of it. Being on the road is already crappy enough. You're the only one to keep yourself accountable and sober when you're traveling and on the road. But then add on that you're trans and you're traveling to small cities. Some of them aren't as progressive as Los Angeles. And I'm being super honest on stage about being trans. Just wears on you a lot. I just am not as happy on the road doing comedy anymore. I mean, honestly, I don't know. It's really hard because every time I try to leave stand up, it feels like an opportunity comes that kind of pulls me back in. You're doing what you love, and people are loving what you're Doing and you see the reactions. And secondly, it really was like being able to give back and do comedy at the same time.

[Chloe Corcoran]

I get that.

[Jeffrey J.]

Like, so I would do typically an hour show, then I would do the 30 minute Q& A.

[Reshma Sajani]

Okay.

[Jeffrey J.]

And then I also said on stage, if you were too shy also to come up to me after the show, I completely understand. And those are the times where, like, people after meeting me sometimes cried and dealt with their problems or learned stuff about being trans.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Huh.

[Jeffrey J.]

Yeah. I had this show that I'll never ever forget. I did a regular show on a college campus and I got a message after I was done that said, hey, Jeffrey, I am the 45 year old man who was at your show yesterday and I want to let you know I have always truly felt like a woman. And for an hour and a half yesterday, for the first time in 45 years, I felt normal. So it was important to me that I go to any town. If something were to happen, it didn't matter. Being willing to be that person is really important to me. This person reached out to me. They're just looking for an outlet and someone to talk to and so you could be there for them for a second. But like, you know, they're still dealing with their when you leave, they're still dealing with their own lives in a small town.

[Reshma Sajani]

So that sounds really hard. It's a lot to put on you, you know.

[Jeffrey J.]

Yeah.

[Reshma Sajani]

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[Chloe Corcoran]

Hey, how Are you? I'm doing pretty well. How are you? Good, thanks. Emily is one of my friends from home who I really trust. She gives great advice and has a lot of insight that not many people have. So last we talked, I knew you had gone on a date. Right. And then what happened since then? So, I mean, she decided that we wouldn't see each other again, but it's actually fine because she gave me the best reason for it. It. And she said that she's only into masculine women, and I don't fit that. And I was like, oh, I'm. I'm actually okay with that. Oh, my gosh, Chloe. I was kind of surprised to hear back from Eve that she just wanted to be friends. And I totally get where she's coming from and why, but if I'm being honest with myself, it still feels kind of like rejection. So. Okay, so then what's the next step, then? So I've been talking to this guy from a dating app, and we've just been chatting and kind of joking around a little bit, and he seems pretty interesting. Sting. So did he ask you out? Like, are you gonna meet him? So he asked me to go get a drink, and this is, like, the first time that somebody was like, hey, want to do something? And that doesn't happen a lot, so I'm excitedly nervous. So, wait, so his idea was to meet you in public then? Yes. He want. He was like, yeah, we can grab a drink. And I was like, awesome. Okay, good. Hey, go for it, then. What? Go for it. I'm always a little nervous. I. Well, of course. But it's in public, and you can. You have your phone on you. One silver lining of being on all these apps is that I'm still talking to some interested and interesting people. The one where I've gotten the most interest is actually from a cisgender guy, which I don't know. Like, I want to be incredibly careful because there's always some kind of violence being done towards trans women, and a lot of it is from CIS men. But it was his idea to meet up, and it was his idea to meet up in public, which makes me feel a little bit safer, you know? Also, this would be my first time going out with a guy, and that's a whole thing. To be fair, my experience is only going out with guys. I mean, what makes you most nervous, do you think? I just. It's so new. Like, I have no experience. I don't know what I'm doing. I mean, are you considering it, though, because you think you should, you know, like, you're a woman and that's the expectation from our society. Or are you actually, like, pursuing this person because he is interesting to you and you are attracted to him? Why you gotta ask the hard questions? I'm sorry. I do that to you all the time. I know, but it's really good for me because now I actually have to think about it. Sure. That's true. I don't exactly know what I want or, like. So I'm not really in a position where I feel like I want to turn anyone down just based on gender.

[Reshma Sajani]

It makes me think a lot about.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Like, gender dynamics in general. Like, how different is it? It might feel different for you to be engaging with a guy instead of a woman.

[Jeffrey J.]

Yeah.

[Chloe Corcoran]

And it'll be really interesting to see how that works out in person. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad that it's in public. You tell me when you're gonna be there, and then you can let me know how it goes. You're gonna be great. Thank you. Bye.

[Reshma Sajani]

Hey, Jeffrey.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Thanks for getting on this call with me. I'm Jessica. I'm the showrunner. How are you doing?

[Jeffrey J.]

I'm good. Thanks, Jessica.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Good.

[Jeffrey J.]

You got a dog? A friend of mine put me in for an assistant gig in a TV writer's room, and amazingly, I have gotten to the interview stage.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Your resume has come to me and looks like you've been busy.

[Jeffrey J.]

I wanted to be a TV writer since before I wanted to be a comedian, but I put it on hold. I started doing stand up, and stand up took off, and I could make my living doing it. Landing any job at all in a TV writer's room would be the perfect way for me to step away from the college comedy circuit. And I just wanted to talk with.

[Chloe Corcoran]

You a little bit more about what you've been up to, why you think you're a good fit here, and. Yeah, just tell me about yourself.

[Jeffrey J.]

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And, yeah, I have been busy. I was a comedian for the past 10 years professionally on the college circuit.

[Chloe Corcoran]

If you had to name one of your weaknesses, what would it be?

[Jeffrey J.]

One of my weaknesses right now would probably be inexperienced. While I have worked a lot of admin jobs, I don't know the ins and outs of TV writing, and there will be a touch of a learning curve. But I will tell you that I will read everything that comes my way. I will spend extra time on things. But that being said, I am coming in a bit green, so, you know, I don't know, something that Someone else might already. Now, I believe you can create your own reality, but the reason I believe that is because I work really hard. I wake up super early, I stay up late. I. I make time for the things that matter. And I set myself deadlines.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Awesome.

[Jeffrey J.]

Just what I do.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Well, thank you so much. I guess what I need to know from you is what your availability looks like. I'm seeing a handful of more people, but if we get back in touch with you within a week, is that okay for you?

[Jeffrey J.]

Absolutely. My availability is 100%. I am game, and you have me as much as you want or need me. I thought that interview went super well, but it might just be me because I want this so badly. Everything's very competitive, so I honestly have no idea.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Thank you so much. We'll be in touch.

[Jeffrey J.]

No problem. All right, bye. Bye, Jessica.

[Chloe Corcoran]

All right, thank you. Bye.

[Jeffrey J.]

Okay, Jeff. That wasn't so bad.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Hi. Welcome. Menus here for you. Is it just you? No, somebody else is showing up. Okay, well, I'll leave this right here and I'll check back in a little bit. So I just got to the restaurant for our date, and I have my usual butterflies, of course, but I'm really looking forward to connecting with somebody new. Do we want to put any appetizer or anything like that while we wait? I'm going to wait just for a minute to see if he see when he gets here. Okay, great. I'll check back. Okay, thank you. Okay. Ready to order? You sure you don't want anything? Yeah, you know what? I will. I'll have. I'll have the. The. The. The Belgium wheat. Belgium me. Got it. And he should be here shortly.

[Reshma Sajani]

And.

[Chloe Corcoran]

And you want a pint, right? A pint, please.

[Jeffrey J.]

Yeah.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Hello? Hey. How's it going? Hey.

[Reshma Sajani]

It's going okay.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Did you get your drink? I. So it's been about 15 minutes. Is it too soon to text him? Like, I don't want to be clingy or annoying, but if he hasn't checked in with you to say, hey, I'm running late, or something came up, or I would say wait a little bit longer. It's only been 15 minutes. Okay. Traffic can be wonky. Like, give it a little bit of time. Okay. Just gonna top your water off. You're so good here. Yeah. Actually, can I. Can I have the check? Yeah, of course. I'll get that right up. Thank you. I am absolutely humiliated. I've been sitting at this table for 30 minutes. He's obviously not coming. I've obviously been stood up and this is just absolutely awful. Hello? Hey. So, hey, I looked and he deleted the app or unmatched me or something. Like, I have no way to get a hold of him. So I am just getting out of here. Oh, Chloe, I'm so sorry. What a dick. Like, I'm trying really hard to not let this get to me, but it's kind of getting to me. Like, I think I had too high of expectations. And here's the thing, though, Chloe. Having an expectation that somebody's gonna show up for a date that you have scheduled is not too high of an expectation. Okay? So this is completely on him.

[Reshma Sajani]

And if he's gonna do something like.

[Chloe Corcoran]

This, then I'd rather you not date him because he's a jerk. I just need to kind of reset. I wish I was there. We could hang out. I know. Talk crap about this jerk. You need to come back and visit me. I will. You know I will. Okay.

[Reshma Sajani]

Okay.

[Chloe Corcoran]

All right. Thanks, Emily. Good night, Chloe. I'll talk to you soon. Okay, bye.

[Jeffrey J.]

Hello? Hello?

[Reshma Sajani]

Hey, Jeffrey, it's Monica.

[Chloe Corcoran]

How are you?

[Jeffrey J.]

I'm good. What's the word?

[Chloe Corcoran]

Good?

[Reshma Sajani]

You know, I just had a couple of dates I want to run past you. Do you have a minute?

[Jeffrey J.]

Yeah, let me just pull up my calendar real quick.

[Reshma Sajani]

Okay, great.

[Jeffrey J.]

Monica is with one of the college agencies who kind of puts me out for college shows. And I didn't expect for her to call immediately after I got back.

[Reshma Sajani]

So looking at a block booking, which is great. Three dates. Thinking right now that's looking at the 15th, 16th, 17th. Not a weekend, not inclusive.

[Jeffrey J.]

Okay.

[Reshma Sajani]

Three colleges. One of them wants to do a.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Training so there'd be a second day.

[Jeffrey J.]

Which you know, is double pricing. Yeah, yeah. The problem is I don't really know my schedule. Like, do you know if any of them has any flexibility to do just weekends?

[Reshma Sajani]

I can check with them, but I don't think so.

[Jeffrey J.]

I'm still waiting to hear back from Jessica about the possible assistance position. And so saying yes to the college gigs could jeopardize that. Because I would need to start that immediately. The problem with saying no right now is that then they don't. They don't want to book you anymore. And so then before you know it, you don't get any phone calls. So I'm choosing my words very carefully here. But I'm also scared. Okay, let me check with everything and I'll get right back to you.

[Reshma Sajani]

Yeah, please do.

[Jeffrey J.]

Okay. All right, thank you.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Bye.

[Reshma Sajani]

Carter's. You know, your auntie, she's body Idey. Idealicious. And while I embrace it, this can make buying underwear just a pain in the butt. Specifically when my underwear decides to give me a wedgie in the middle of the day. But skims has been a game changer for my underwear drawer. No wedgies, just gorgeous colors and soft fabric. I especially love that the boy shorts fit seamlessly under whatever I'm wearing so my silhouette is smooth and silky. I also highly recommend the Fits Everybody Cheeky Brief When I'm feeling a little cheeky, sometimes you want your underwear to give you a little supportive hug. And Skims makes me feel confident and elevated. Shop Skims Best Intimates, including the Fits Everybody collection and [e-mail] and skim stores. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows. Carters, you know we are always thinking about travel on Add to Cart and Rosetta Stone is the perfect Add to Cart for travel season. Rosetta Stone is the leading language learning program designed to fly fully immerse you in your chosen language for a more natural and effective learning experience. It's available on desktop and mobile, which is great for those of us who are always on the go. Now their truaxent speech recognition technology is really exciting to me. It's designed to provide real time feedback to help you speak the language more naturally. I'm not going to be one of those tourists that is there to absolutely butcher the local language. Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. Add to Cart Listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50 doll. 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit RosettaStone.com add to cart to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to RosettaStone.com addtocart and start learning today. Let's be honest here. Raising a family today, it feels like navigating a maze of unhealthy options. You're always looking for those hidden sugars, artificial ingredients, misleading. It's so hard to know what's actually good for our kids. And that is why I love Thrive Market. It is like having a personal guide to healthier living for my entire family. Thrive Market makes it simple to find trusted, family friendly brands without spending hours in the grocery store. From snacks to pantry staples, everything they offer is 100% non GMO and with their on site filters you can shop based on what matters most to your family Low sugar, gluten free, organic or high protein options, all just a click away. Our little Emmy loves the Amara smoothie snacks filled with organic bananas, coconut milk and red berries. And you know, I'm Snacky sue, but I'm trying to be a good influence for my kids. So I love that they have this thing called the Healthy Swaps scanner in the Thrive market app. It's so simple. Here's how it works. You scan a product you're used to buying and then it instantly recommends cleaner, healthier alternatives. So we're filling our pantry with Annie's Mac and cheese, chomps, beef sticks, and well, lesser evil popcorn. Yes, popcorn can surprisingly be pretty evil. Ready for a junk free start to 2025, head to thrivemarket.com Add to Cart and get 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. That's T H R I V E market.com Add to Cart thrivemarket.com Add to Cart.

[Jeffrey J.]

How you doing, keeper? Doing good. How is your day?

[Chloe Corcoran]

It's been pretty good.

[Jeffrey J.]

So you didn't fly this morning, huh?

[Chloe Corcoran]

I didn't know the winds were too strong.

[Jeffrey J.]

I miss you a lot, baby, and I'm really proud of you. And I can't believe how crazy your schedule is going to be and how many hours you're going to be in the air.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Yeah, if I can. As long as weather doesn't bog us down, I'm going to be getting like 24 hours a month of flight time.

[Jeffrey J.]

It's amazing. That's what I'm really missing Emma a lot right now. And I'm trying not to burden her with all of my work stuff because she has a lot of stuff going on too, and she's in school and it's just. It's just a lot. It is freaking wedding season this. Oh my God. Have you not seen that everybody's getting married right now. Every single weekend there's a marriage. They seem like they're all gay. Do we only know gay people?

[Chloe Corcoran]

You only know gay people.

[Jeffrey J.]

I think that might be the case. Is that or it's only gay people I know that get married. Or maybe those are the only ones that catch my eye because they're the only ones that are Instagrammable. I think the thing is, is that I'm in constant fear that you will propose to me.

[Chloe Corcoran]

It's not a great fear to have in a relationship for a while.

[Jeffrey J.]

You had that safe.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Well, you thought I had the money to just buy a ring and hide it. I don't have the money to propose to you right now anyway. Like, I'm not going to pop a proposal right now because we've both agreed it's not the right time for it to happen.

[Jeffrey J.]

For both me and Emma, we see our relationship as a priority. Like we see each other as each other's forever person. Emma's actively working towards her dream of being a helicopter pilot, but at the same time, she keeps our future in mind and makes it a priority. And I just want to make sure I'm always doing the same. And I really do want to marry you. And I want to make sure that we don't shortchange ourselves on a cool ass wedding.

[Chloe Corcoran]

How would you propose, though? I don't know, like, what you would.

[Jeffrey J.]

Do that I keep to myself.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Mm.

[Jeffrey J.]

You will never know what I'm planning. I love you so much.

[Chloe Corcoran]

I love you. I gotta go catch a flight, so I'll talk to people later. Right.

[Jeffrey J.]

Bye, baby.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Hello. Hi. How are you?

[Reshma Sajani]

Great.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Yes, I've been pretty down since getting stood up, to be honest, and it's getting really hard to continuously put myself out there and not have anything happen. I owe Emily a catch up phone call because we've been texting and she's been checking in on me, which I am so appreciative of. But I just need to talk to her. But really, I really want to hear the scoop. Any other blind dates that you potentially have? Not blind dates yet. I've started some cursory conversations on some of the apps. Like, a couple people didn't unmatch me immediately, so I'm like, you know, chatting with them a little bit. Is that like a. That makes me so sad. Is that some kind of a. Yeah. When people read my profile and see that I'm trans, they unmatch a lot, which is frustrating and makes me angry and kind of hurts. I was very nervous to be on an app because I'm a plus size woman. I was very concerned that no one was going to swipe for me. And so for me, like, any angles, you know, I just am honest and.

[Reshma Sajani]

I say right off the bat in the.

[Chloe Corcoran]

In the bio, you know, plus size woman, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I know that whoever swipes on me isn't going to be surprised or disappointed. Disappointed. Be upfront about the thing that you're most insecure about. And I feel like that's sort of what you've done. Like you put in your bio that you're trans. You don't hide that fact, you know? Right, right.

[Jeffrey J.]

Yeah.

[Chloe Corcoran]

And that is good advice. Like It's a lot easier for somebody to unmatch me than it is to interact with them or they just become a complete jerk. When, like, when you're dating and, like, using the apps, like, what are some of the hurdles or obstacles or, like, gee, that's kind of effed up kind of moments. I mean, my situation is very unique in its own way. Like, I'm. I am jaded. Very, very jaded about men and about.

[Reshma Sajani]

My experience and some of the things.

[Chloe Corcoran]

That I had happen in my relationship.

[Reshma Sajani]

That I just kind of thought were.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Were normal but that I now know are not.

[Reshma Sajani]

I actually think that in some ways.

[Chloe Corcoran]

There'S a lot of value in, like, entering the dating world. Like, you are without a ton of experience, because I feel like your expectations are realistic left or not, at least not. You don't have, like, for example, a.

[Reshma Sajani]

Person that you're comparing everybody to.

[Chloe Corcoran]

I feel like you're more of, like, an open book in the. In the sense that you're willing to kind of see where things go in a truly authentic way. Do you know what I mean? Damn. I. Why you got to call me out like that? Sorry, was that too much? No, that's so legit. Like, I feel like you just saw into my soul. Like, that's, like. That's, like, legit. I had never thought about that before. And the fact that you're at the point in your life where you not.

[Reshma Sajani]

Only know who you are, but you're.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Accepting of it, and you're starting to learn what it means to really like yourself, I think that's when you start to attract other people who will like you, too, you know? Like, that's sort of how that plays.

[Reshma Sajani]

Out, because I can remember the difference, and it makes me feel so warm.

[Chloe Corcoran]

In my heart and soul, knowing that you are able to own who you.

[Reshma Sajani]

Are, but also that you are starting to like that person, because I want.

[Chloe Corcoran]

I like you so much. I love you. I think you're, like, one of the best people on this earth, and I want for you to see that so that other people, when you're dating them and you're developing relationships with other people, that they see that, too, because you're worth it, you know, and you've made a lot of progress, so I'm thrilled about it. Oh, my God. That means the world to me, Emily. Like, some of the things you just said, like, you're worth it. Like, I didn't believe that for so long, as, you know, Emily has given me a lot to think about, especially when I've Never thought of things that way before. And it's really nice to have somebody to take the time to offer those thoughts to me while still being compassionate about what happened. All right, well, I think I'm gonna get going because I have to call my mom shortly. I will text you in a little while. I'll talk to you soon. Okay, sounds good. Bye.

[Jeffrey J.]

Hello? Oh, this is my first voice memo on my new phone. It says my address. Okay, that's creepy. All right. Oh, I'm trying to be cheery because I got an email back from Jessica, the showrunner this morning, and I didn't get the writer's PA job. But that's okay. I'm also currently emailing the my agent, Monica, and I've decided I'm turning down the college dates, even though she's trying to book me out. So what's probably gonna happen now is she's probably gonna stop reaching out to me for gigs. And that's okay. I've made peace with it. I'm gonna send my resume out everywhere I can. I'm gonna focus on writing. I'm gonna work on some, like, my original scripts and I'll keep submitting to things, and eventually something's gonna happen. This is kind of that tipping point for me where I just have to make a choice and I'm gonna go for it, even if it's effing terrifying. I think what it is is that, like, I go on the road and I'm always waiting for, like, something big to happen to pull me off, but I just have to make the decision for myself. I'm just gonna take charge and, and just do it and take the chance. That's what I did with comedy to begin with. And then that's what's going to create the future that I want in my career. And, you know, with Emma, as far as the way, like, I reach people with my stand up, I'm definitely gonna miss that. But I know that with writing, I even have a chance to, like, reach more people. And, yeah, I don't know, it's scary, but that's what life is like. You have to take a chance in order to get the things that really matter to you. And I mean, that's. That's how you grow and, like, become the person that you want to be.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Okay, everybody, so if you're A, get on this side. And if you're B, get on this side. We will have 10 five minute dates, and at the beginning of each day, you will start by introducing yourself with your name pronouns and ad that you wrote on your index park. Right now I'm at a park to attend a queer speed dating event. And like, I. I've had a lot of disappointments lately, but I know that I'm not going to meet my future partner sitting alone in my apartment. I'll be honest, something like this would generally freak me out, but if I don't meet my person here, that's okay too. Hi. Hi, I'm Alex. Hi, Alex, I'm Chloe. I wrote like a personal, so I. My headline is let's go. And it's, let's go to your favorite places and I'll show you mine. Let's go to places we haven't even thought or heard of yet. Let's go together. Let's go. That's awesome. Thank you. And ours are very much in love. Are they really? Yeah. That's awesome. So I said, hi, I'm Alex. I like giant sweaters, making fun of bad movies and all things nerdy. I want you to tell me your passions and get me excited about something here. And let's do something we're both not good at and bond over our mutual mediocrity. Alex, that is awesome. A lot of yes. Oh my gosh. If you're facing me, I'm gonna have you move to the left. Hi, I'm Chloe. She. Her.

[Reshma Sajani]

Hers. Chloe.

[Jeffrey J.]

Awesome. I am X. X.

[Chloe Corcoran]

It's nice to meet you. Yeah, honestly, it's really nice to be around other queer people. Absolutely. Like, this is my first gay event.

[Reshma Sajani]

Like, that I've been out to, like since I've moved to LA.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Yeah.

[Reshma Sajani]

So it's like nice to like be like 100% surrounded by like hundreds of people.

[Chloe Corcoran]

There are just so many obstacles to trans dating, but the only way anything is ever going to happen is if I keep showing up. And I have to keep showing up for myself. I spent probably way too much time this week thinking about what did I do wrong on these days? What could I have done better? And honestly, I need to stop thinking that way. I am great and it's only a matter of time before somebody else figures out that I'm great too. And I just have to keep going. I have to see what happens because I deserve to be loved and I felt like hell to be who I am today. And I deserve better and I deserve to treat myself better.

[Jeffrey J.]

Next on being Trans.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Had I not been trans, I would have coached college football.

[Jeffrey J.]

Can you still play?

[Chloe Corcoran]

Oh, sorry. Like, I'm a little self conscious at the moment and I shouldn't be I'm leaving Wednesday back to Guatemala. I don't know if I share with you, but I experienced horrible things over there and people wanted to kill me. Here we are. Where are we, Mommy? Guatemala. No, sir. Mel Tindre. I'm connecting with part of me that needs to heal. It takes time. Being Trans is an audio reality original from Lemonada Media's Bing Studios. Executive producers are Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Whittles Wax and Casey Barrett. Our co executive producer is Celia Liotta, our Associate producer is Mariah Gossett and our assistant producer is Greta Stromquist. Our consulting producer is Char Jossel. Scott Hanlon is our audio supervisor and field recordist with additional field recording by Mars Mejia. Mix and sound design by David Herrmann and Michael Rayfiel. Additional mix, sound design and consultation by Ivan Koraev. Our music is by Signature Tracks. Special thanks to the Hot Donnas Club and the Glendale Room. Being Trans is brought to you with generous support from the Marguerite Casey foundation and well Being Trust. You can find us online at lemonada Media and connect with us across all social platforms. Subscribe to Lemonada Media on Apple Podcasts to hear bonus content, deleted scenes and more from our cast. If you like what you heard today, please tell your family and friends to listen and subscribe. Rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, thanks for listening and thanks for being.

[Reshma Sajani]

Hi everyone. Gloria Rivera here, and we are back for another season of no One Is Coming to Save Us, a podcast about America's childcare crisis. This season we're delving deep into five critical issues facing our country through the lens of child care, poverty, mental health, housing, climate change and the public school system. By exploring these connections, we aim to highlight that childcare is not an isolated issue, but one that influences all facets of American life. Season 4 of No1 Is Coming to Save Us is out now. Wherever you get your podcasts, are you.

[Jeffrey J.]

Looking for ways to make your everyday.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling.

[Reshma Sajani]

Author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the.

[Chloe Corcoran]

Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig.

[Reshma Sajani]

Is my sister, Elizabeth Craft.

[Chloe Corcoran]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.