← All Pro Dad Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Hey, welcome to the All Pro dad podcast. My name is Ted Loe. And our big question to start us off with is this. Should dads be intentional about rites of passage for our kids and why does it matter? In this episode, we talk about why kids don't just grow up. They need moments that mark the shift. How passive milestones fall short of building confidence and character. And how dads can create meaningful rites of passage that challenge and celebrate their kids. If you want to help your kid, see, step into the next stage with confidence and with clarity. This conversation is for you. Let's get into it.
- [00:38]
B
I got some questions for you. Imagine, just close your eyes and picture you were a 12 year old boy living in Brazil. You're part of the Satare Mawe group of people. Yeah. You're about to become a man. Now here's how it happens in this section of the world. Have you ever heard of a bullet ant?
- [00:57]
C
No.
- [00:58]
B
Okay. A bullet ant is about a 1 inch long bug that bites and it's called the bullet ant because it feels like he got shot by a bullet. When you get bitten, you ever been stung by a yellow jacket before?
- [01:08]
C
Yes.
- [01:09]
B
Okay. It's supposedly twice as painful as that. And in this particular part of the world, in order to be initiated into a man, there's a rite of passage where they stick your hand inside a glove full of these ants and they fashion it to you and they let it bite you for five minutes. And it's supposed to just make you absolutely throb with pain and they remove it. And then the pain lasts 24 hours. And once those 24 hours are done, you're considered a man. What do you guys think about that?
- [01:37]
C
I think I'm glad I don't live in Brazil.
- [01:41]
A
I think that is horrible. Wrong. And there needs to be some kind of like, authority.
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C
How old are the typical?
- [01:47]
B
Between 12 and 16. Somewhere in there.
- [01:50]
C
No. Oh, no.
- [01:51]
A
Wrong.
- [01:52]
B
Okay, well, here's the reason this particular group of people, they say it builds endurance, bravery and stoicism. And now you're a man. When you can endure this 24 hours
- [02:00]
C
of pain, when you could just take pain.
- [02:02]
B
Yeah.
- [02:02]
A
What about for those 10% of kids that just run away and never come back because they don't want to put their hand in the glove.
- [02:08]
B
That wasn't part of my research.
- [02:09]
C
I would love to know if there was ever anyone that did that.
- [02:13]
B
So the pain lasts a full day. It can cause nausea, shaking, and temporary paralysis.
- [02:20]
C
Okay, you said five minutes. Five minutes doesn't sound long, but I bet when you're getting shot over and over, over and over again.
- [02:27]
B
Now, I know this hurts because my son was actually bitten by a bullet ant once. We were visiting Costa Rica, and he got bitten. He was like 2, and he.
- [02:36]
A
Did you put his hand in a glove?
- [02:38]
B
No, I didn't do that. It was just walking on the ground and it bit him. Well, I was doing a lot of research. No, no. But I mean, it was horrible. And that was one bite, not over and over again over the course of five minutes. So this is wild, but this is how one particular group does a rite of passage for its young men to initiate them into adulthood. Sounds dumb, but if that wasn't your brand of growing up, how about this one? All right. There's a group called the Vanity in the Philippines. They do what's called land diving. Sounds just as dangerous as it actually is. So they basically build this tower. It's like 60, 80ft tall in the air. They strap vines to their feet and to the top of the tower, and they dive off the tower. And the goal is to sweep your hair on the ground. And the closer you get to the ground, the more manly you are. And if you can do a perfect dive, you're now initiated into manhood.
- [03:31]
A
I'm in. I want to go. That sounds fantastic. Yeah.
- [03:34]
B
You like?
- [03:35]
A
Yeah. That's awesome.
- [03:37]
B
It says the higher the jump, the greater the blessing. It's a coming of age that basically.
- [03:43]
A
Yeah.
- [03:43]
B
You would do that one. Would you be like, he doesn't get convinced.
- [03:48]
C
That's literally the. The stupidest thing I've ever heard of. How many have ended up paralyzed?
- [03:52]
B
Because probably a lot.
- [03:53]
C
A lot. I don't know the number. It's their fault.
- [03:57]
B
Teaches you how to measure real early in life, right? You got to measure this vine, right?
- [04:00]
C
Oh, my gosh.
- [04:01]
B
They're supposed to build courage, and if you can show courage, you're now a man in this particular culture.
- [04:06]
A
That's awesome. Good for them.
- [04:07]
C
Sorry, Filipino.
- [04:08]
B
I got one more. I got one more rite of passage that I'm gonna see if you like this one, too. This is from Ethiopia, from the Hamar group. It's bull jumping. Okay. Nothing to do with, like, bull riding like we do here in the United States, bull jumping. What happens is, for centuries, men will rub their bodies with the dung of bulls. Yep, they will. Great start, young man.
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C
Great start, right? Fantastic.
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B
This is to deliver strength, they say, then walk across the back of seven to ten bulls without falling. You have to go back and forth four times. If you can do it, you are now eligible to be married. That's how it works in this particular group.
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C
I'll do that one. I just want to do that one.
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A
I just want to know how this came together. Yeah, we gotta figure something out. Well, I'll tell you what we're gonna do.
- [04:56]
B
Well, here's the thing. If you fall, you're ineligible for marriage. You have to wait a whole year before you can do it again. So in this particular group, and while this is happening. I didn't mention this part. While this is happening, 300 people are watching the ceremony. By the way. That's just part of this. The young women are taking painful lashes to show loyalty and display endurance. If they can withdraw the pain, then they will have gone through something difficult, and they're then ready for marriage. So a lot going on at this poopy bull festival.
- [05:22]
C
I want to know, like, are there those people that are just unathletic and terribly balanced who are now in their 50s doing it every evolution, every single year?
- [05:33]
B
It wasn't your destiny, my friend. You keep falling off.
- [05:36]
C
They keep falling off. Yeah.
- [05:37]
B
Okay, So I tried to find, like, the three most outlandish rites of passage that I could find because we're going to talk about rites of passage today. Those three were supposed to get you scratching your head because they're kind of weird, at least to us. But here's a couple more that maybe are a little less intense, that maybe you have heard of, maybe a little more popular. There's a rites of passage in Australia called the walkabout, where young men are sent off to essentially camp by themselves for a couple of weeks. You have to survive. And then when you come back, you've proven yourself to be a man. That's maybe a little less severe than jumping off an 80 foot platform with a vine on your foot. There's another one called the samurai genpuku in Japan where basically young men will. They will cut their hair into traditional samurai. You know, look, they will train in different disciplines. They will wear traditional samurai clothing and they'll do a festival, and then they'll initiate themselves into, like a manhood sort of ritual.
- [06:34]
C
I'll do that.
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A
Yeah.
- [06:35]
B
That one haircut a lot easier, right?
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C
That one sounds the best.
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A
Yeah.
- [06:38]
C
Yeah.
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B
So far, the haircut is the way to go.
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C
Japanese.
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B
Last one here, Ken. Tanzania and Kenya, there is a Maasai lion hunt where you get a spear and they say, come back with a lion, and if you can, you're a man.
- [06:51]
C
That just. That's, again, sounds really reckless.
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B
It does. But What I thought about this.
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C
Are you gonna find a lion alone?
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B
Okay. I'm thinking maybe it's asleep. You know, you get out there with a spear, and you find they're gonna
- [07:02]
C
sleep with, like, three or four other lion.
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B
Like, I don't know what the success rate is.
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C
Pride.
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A
They.
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C
They.
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B
I don't know.
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C
I know how many kids have died because of all of these things.
- [07:11]
B
I didn't do the research. The numbers were not available.
- [07:13]
C
I would like.
- [07:15]
B
Yeah, okay. Well, it's not all. I know. A lot of the times we read these and the rites of passage are for young men, but there are a lot of groups around the world who do rites of passage for young women as well. And there's one group called the Inuit people, and they do facial tattoos for young women. So they will give them decorative, beautiful, you know, markings that they'll have on their face, their cheeks, their forehead. And this will mark the, you know, graduation into womanhood in this particular part of the world. So a lot of interesting rites of passage that you don't necessarily have to copy in your house if you don't want to, but they're cool to think about.
- [07:48]
A
Yeah. You know, it's easy for us to be critical and a little funny, but to say at least they have rites of passage. You know, our culture, we've kind of lost that a little bit. So that's our big question of the week is should we create rites of passage for our kids?
- [08:06]
C
I mean, I think. Look, I think here's the reality. Kids do not drift into adulthood. If they drift into adulthood, they'll just keep drifting and they'll never feel like they've crossed over. So we do need to have something for them. And I do think that that's maybe some of the good thing about some of these ridiculous things, except for the amount of kids that died doing it. But, like, what? I had friends who. Mentors of mine who used to have a ceremony where they would have their kids do certain things. They'd have them memorize certain things and. And say them. They would do certain tasks, and then they would have a lot of people from the community show up and they would do kind of a reading or they would do all these. Kind of memorize. Talk about what they did. And then there was sort of this sort of blessing and praying over the person and then communicating that now you are. Now you're a man or a woman, which was great for me. It's. There's less ceremony with this. With this. But it. It. I was. I thought it was very important and did communicate to my son, okay, you are no longer in childhood anymore. Like, you are now on the. The manhood road.
- [09:22]
A
How old was he?
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C
Sixteen. Sixteen. Around then. That like, we kind of. Now I, I said, you're at. You're at the beginning of manhood. Like, you're no longer on the. You're not at the end of childhood. You're at the beginning of manhood, which means you're in manhood. However, you still do do need guidance, all of those things. Like, you're not just kind of out there. It was important to say, look, you're a man now. You're a young man, but you're a man.
- [09:58]
B
Right? That's good. Yeah. I asked our old buddy Chatgpt about this because I was just curious. Obviously, we can ask about rites of passage around the world and we get answers. Like, put your hand in a glove full of ants. That's not something that most people in America are going to do. But I did find it interesting that Chad GPT said, here are the rites of passage for young people in america. Basically, sweet 16 birthday party. Okay, you get your driver's license. Okay, you go to prom and you graduate high school. Those were the answers that it spit out. And I thought almost all of that's passive. Like, you just lived long enough and now we had a birthday party when you turned 16. There's a lot of groups in the country that will have specific religious ceremonies. Bar mitzvah, bat mitzvah kings, and yera. Like, there's a lot of different things that you will celebrate as you mark a certain age. But, you know, you get a driver's license, you do have to do a little bit of studying for that. But is that considered a rite of passage? I don't know. Maybe a high school graduation. Like 90% of kids who enter high school graduate. Is that a rite of passage? Maybe. I don't know. To me, a rite of passage needs to be special and specific to the kid. If it's just this big blanket thing that everybody, or for the most part, everybody achieves, then it doesn't feel special. Right. I think that that's something that we're going to try to hit on a little bit in this discussion. Is that when you're trying to think about maybe implementing this in your home, how can you make this special for your kid?
- [11:22]
A
When my oldest son, I think, was going from fifth grade to sixth grade, we got an opportunity to have a little bit of rites of passage weekend. We had some friends invited us to this camp, and it was set up for dads to be able to bless their kids and help them, you know, mark a rite of passage into. Into the next season of life from elementary to. To middle school. And got there, and it was beautiful. And there's all these games, and there's these little treasure chests on everyone's bed and had their names burned into them. And dads were to drop messages throughout, different blessings for them. And my son's box was actually smaller than our friends. And he says, dad, why is my box smaller? I said, because his dad loves him more than your dad loves you. And he goes, dad, that's the funniest thing you've ever said. That's one of his big memories. The last night of the weekend, they had a bonfire, and they allowed us to knight our kids with this sword. And so at first when I saw it, I thought, this is. This feels a little silly. But those boys, they loved it. And it just marked time. It just mattered. And we just stumbled into that rite passage. But I'm very thankful that we have it. We've got to be intentional about it.
- [12:39]
C
That's the thing. It's something that marks it like, something that acknowledges that there's a transition taking place. There's verbalizing and, I mean, I think even going back to a driver's license, like, yeah, okay, you took a test and you drive. There is a level of responsibility and independence that comes with that, that changes for a kid that moves into that. It's like, you are now old enough where you can accept the responsibility and all of that. And it's a step in this direction. Explaining that and telling them, I think, is part of the process of this, or we can just let it happen. It's like, yeah, I mean, this is what happens when you get to this age. You get your license. No, this is a big deal because of this. This is what's happening with you. I'll never forget when I was growing up, I kind of remember watching 80s movies, and I don't know why I got this in my head. I just saw this in a couple movies where the dad, like, took off his watch and was like, this is for you. Like, really a dumb thing. Like. But I just sort of got into my head. Well, that's what dads do when, like, their sons reach a certain age where they're ready to be a man. They give them their watch. So I, for some reason, was always waiting for my dad to give me his watch. And he had his watch that he had gotten from his dad. And I'm like, well, when he gives me that watch, that means that I'm in the. The really funny thing is, is he gave me watches. Like, he bought me, like, a really nice watch, like, when I was 13. He didn't say anything about it. He was like, yeah, I thought you needed to watch. But he didn't give me his. And so I never really. I kind of, like, went into adulthood going, well, I never got the watch. And ironically, you know, he. When he passed away when I was 24, I still hadn't been told. He never told me that I was a man. I don't think his dad did that with him. But I got his watch then. But there was nothing that made me feel like I had moved into manhood. Like. Like he had made speeches, he had told me he was proud of me. Like, there were all these things, but he didn't specifically tell me this thing. And so there was something that was missing where I, Even into my 30s, I felt like I was 12, you know, among adults.
- [15:08]
A
And just watching that movie, you were drawn to something about a rite of passage.
- [15:12]
C
Yeah, there was something.
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A
Something about that.
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C
Hey, here. Here it is.
- [15:16]
A
Maybe there's something in. All of us is drawn to getting a blessing or are we getting, you know, acknowledgement. Hey, you're going to do the next thing, and I'm really proud of you. And here's some things to watch out for.
- [15:26]
B
Well, what you said, BJ caught my attention. You said, I just kind of made it a 30 feeling like I was 12, because no one ever marked it as special. If you're a dad and you're hearing that now, your kids are probably expecting you to mark it as something special or they're going to be 30 years old, maybe feeling like they're 12 because you never did what you didn'.
- [15:43]
C
Get.
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B
So I do think that's. It's worth thinking through in that respect for this conversation.
- [15:47]
A
Yeah. And I think it gives us an opportunity to challenge our kids, you know, celebrate and to challenge.
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C
Every kid needs a challenge. It's really the opportunity is that they overcome and build confidence that they can walk away going, oh, okay. Like, this came. This came to me, this whatever obstacle, and I was able to meet it, overcome it, and therefore it builds to them. Okay, well, I'm ready to step up to what. What it means to be an adult. I'm ready to step up to the challenge of being what it means to be an adult.
- [16:21]
A
That's a great point. And I think that rice of passage, they do just that they signify growth and they signify that maturity. You're ready. Those are important things to acknowledge. Right.
- [16:33]
C
It. It sends them the message that they're ready for. For responsibility. It. I mean, that's exactly what a. That's exactly what a driver's license is it. Okay, you're ready for this. You're ready to take this step.
- [16:43]
A
I think you're right. And I think rites of passage give kids confidence. Right. You've passed the driver's test. Mom and dad have given you the, you know, celebration. Here's some confidence that. That instills it. I believe you can do this.
- [16:57]
C
Yeah. Well, I think it's. And there's a sense of belonging that I think comes. That comes with that, that there's this whole lineage that came before them, that walked this road and moved into adulthood. And that's been a path that they've been on. And so when it's that they are a part of the history of your family and they are now moving into the next step, just like you moved into it beforehand, just like your father and their grandfathers did the same thing, that they're a part of something bigger.
- [17:31]
A
So from the kids table to the adult table, right?
- [17:34]
C
Yeah.
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A
Now you're part of us.
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C
Now you're part of this. You've moved into this. Now you're with me.
- [17:40]
A
I love that.
- [17:41]
B
Yeah. My son is 10, and I know we're moving into an opportunity. Kind of like you talked about your son graduating, going from elementary to middle school, and you talked about your son being 16. You had that conversation. I'm getting into the mindset now. If I want to do something for my son when he gets to be that age, what's it going to be? And I'm not planning on doing it in the next six months, but, like, at some point in the next few years, I'm probably going to have to do that because I don't want him to get to being 18 years old. And you're like, oh, I guess you can buy a lotto ticket. I guess you're an adult now. Like, that's not really what I want his experience to be. And so in researching for this, I reached out to one of our all pro dad colleagues. His name is Kendall, and he's a Navy SEAL or a former Navy seal. And I said, okay, surely this guy has some really good insight on what it means to have rites of passage. He went through the military. He's done some of the most difficult physical tasks in the world.
- [18:30]
C
I mean, I could take him but keep going.
- [18:31]
B
Yeah. I mean, if you were to be here and arm wrestling now, I would put my money on you, B.J. of course. But I think one of the things he said that stood out to me was this. He said rites of passage should require something of your child. It's not passive like we've been talking about. He also said one of the lessons that are conveyed through rites of passage is that you need to do hard things in life. Just skating through that's not good for your kids. So rites of passage offers them an opportunity, like we said, to overcome a challenge. And he went through Bud's training, which I don't know if you guys are familiar with that or listeners are familiar. Bud training is basically the weeks long process to become a Navy seal. And maybe you've heard the term hell week before. It's, it's the weeding out of those who are not going to make it to the elite of the elite to become a Navy seal. And he said that in doing that, in challenging himself and pushing himself through this rite of passage, weeks long training, his confidence grew higher and higher with each stage that he completed. And he said, you definitely become a different person and you hold yourself differently when you accomplish these hard things. So if we're going to make a, a correlation between a rites of passage in our home and maybe what he had to go through with training, when your kids are able to have this ceremony, this event, this, this challenge they overcome, they're going to have more confidence. And I think we all want that as dads. And he said it really led to more mental toughness for him. And he said resilience leads to confidence. Now, one of my favorite parts of the whole chit chat was I didn't know that his wife was sitting there listening. We were doing a video chat, Kendall and I were talking and his wife was off to the side and she told this great story and I thought it was so cool. When he finished Bud's training and he became a seal, they gave him his pin and this big ceremony. He came home and said, look, I got my pin. And she goes, great, you're a SEAL now, go act like it.
- [20:16]
C
I was like, wow, for the first time ever.
- [20:19]
B
Yeah, well, I just thought that was super cool. And she was being a little tongue in cheek a little bit. But the point of it was, you've earned this, now live up to it. And if we're going to do a rite of passage in our home and we're conveying to our kids, kids like you're Going to be treated like you told your son, like an adult. Now go act like it. We're not going to treat you like a kid, so you don't act like a kid anymore. We're ushering you into the early stages of adulthood. So put on your adult clothes and go be an adult now. And I think that's a really a cool thing that we can do. And I think that one of the things that Kendall was very adamant about was saying the United States kids are just not expected to be a man or a woman until much later than other places around the world. Whether that's because we coddle them, we've talked about that before. Whether we shelter them a little too much or selfishly just want to have our little baby for as long as possible. Is that really what's best for our young kids in our home? It's probably better to kind of push them a little bit towards those adulthood moments while they're here with us.
- [21:21]
A
I think we're just talking about having intentional moments. These aren't just passive things that happen. We are marking time for them. And I think it's just a celebration with them and encourage to them that they are going on to the next season of their life. The more we talk about this, you know, this is one of those topics. I don't know if dad's listening are feeling this. When you think about rites of passage, no one teaches us this stuff. Right. How many dads have been taught that are listening right now? Someone came to you and said, hey, make sure you do rites of passage for your kids. I think this is one of those topics that brings something very important to the forefront that we've not been told is important. So I get kind of excited about
- [22:04]
B
it or just didn't get it themselves. So they're like, well, how do I do it? I never got it. And it just kind of goes without being accomplished.
- [22:11]
A
Yeah, it was like BJ saying, gosh, I didn't get the watch or I didn't get, you know, it's all about, are you giving your kids the watch or not?
- [22:17]
C
Because they need it.
- [22:19]
A
We're going to buy you one. B.J.
- [22:21]
B
it's about time.
- [22:22]
C
So the question, you know, for you all is, should we do a rite of passage with our kids or should we set it up for our kids? What are your thoughts?
- [22:34]
A
Well, I think they can be those one time things, but it also can be incremental things where we're talking about it, building towards it, celebrate it, and then continue to talk about it with Our kids think it's powerful. I mean, just think if you're sitting right here, right now, you think, you know, as dads are listening, as we're thinking, what would you wanted your dad to do if you could go back, get the watch?
- [22:59]
B
Yeah. You know, I'm more inclined to do it with instead of for. When you say, oh, can you do it for your kids? I'm thinking about the Maasai lion tribe, and go out there, here's a spear. Bring back a lion. Like, I'm not participating in that. You have fun, but I think doing it together would be kind of cool. And whether that's a camping trip, you know, those are usually not too expensive. If you can go out for a weekend. You know, I have a cousin who did that with his son, and it was really cool. He basically told his son for weeks, we're going to go camping. You can make a list. You can ask me anything, any question you want, and I will answer it for you. And I was like, man, what a great opportunity. So they did that together. I'm more inclined to do with. But that's up to you in your own home how you want to make this work.
- [23:38]
C
It would be funny to find out that Bobby's son was arrested at the local zoo, like trying to murder a lion.
- [23:47]
B
It's a rite of passage. Don't take me to jail.
- [23:50]
A
We'll put that in the show notes.
- [23:51]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
- [23:52]
A
Oh, that's good.
- [23:53]
B
It.
- [23:53]
A
So what should rites of passage, what should it require? I think, you know, to Kendall's point, it should require some level of courage.
- [24:03]
C
Well, and second, I think it should involve some sort of perseverance. I mean, kids are going to face resistance. They're going to face resistance in life. They've got to be able to step up to something and push through. And so I don't know if you're setting something up for them or if they're just going to face natural resistance at some point, but they're. The point being it's time for you to step back and let them move forward and face whatever it is. And you can encourage them, you can give them ideas for how to overcome it, but you need to let them overcome it themselves.
- [24:36]
A
I believe you can do it.
- [24:37]
C
Yeah.
- [24:38]
B
Thirdly, I think a rite of passage in your home should include some level of discipline. You have to make sure that they have to hold to something. It can't be too loose. If it's too loose, it's going to lose its value. It's got to be disciplined in some way. And if it's too stringent, maybe it will lose its effectiveness. So you kind of toe that line a little bit. I had a conversation with my college roommate who's got two boys, they're 14 and 12, and he just told me that they're making plans right now to go to Clingman's Dome in Tennessee. It's the highest point, I believe, in Tennessee. And they're going to hike it from the bottom to the top. It's like 6,000ft or something like that. And they're going to hike it, and he's doing it with them. And he's basically going with the intent purpose to say, when we reach the top, you're men now and I'm going to do this with you. I was like, that's really cool. I'm proud of you for doing that. So it's got to include discipline. You don't just accidentally hike a mountain. You need to disciplined in that effort.
- [25:28]
A
It's good.
- [25:29]
C
I'm to that place where it's more about whether or not I'll finish. I know my kid can do it. Yeah.
- [25:36]
A
Yeah.
- [25:36]
C
My son and I hiked to a top of a mountain and he just kept standing there waiting for me. I'm like, okay, I just need to write.
- [25:42]
B
You have to be able to carry dad down the mountain all the way
- [25:45]
C
back to the car, right? Well, I think to build a rite of passage for your kids in the remaining years that you have left, I think you need to start with two questions. Number one, what do I want my kids to know when. When it comes time for them to leave?
- [26:01]
A
It's a great conversation. One that I don't think a lot of dads included us have thought enough about how powerful those moments can be. There's different ways to do this. So the pro move of the week is think about a rite of passage you could create for your kid and just take one step toward doing that. That could be a conversation with your wife that could be know getting online to figure it out, have a conversation with a Navy seal. But just start thinking about. Just take a step in those directions. It could be a powerful thing for. For you and your kid. Thank you, Bobby and BJ for this discussion and thank you. And if you would, if you could go rate and review the podcast. It'll take about one minute and helps other people to find us. But we want to say thank you so much for joining us. We know that you and your kids will be glad that you did.
- [26:52]
C
Did.
- [26:55]
D
Thanks again. For listening to the allprodad podcast. Behind every episode is our amazing team producer Haley Moat, audio and video editor Buck Buchanan, and production coordinator Corey Woof. AllPro dad is the fatherhood program of the nonprofit Family first, along with our motherhood program IMOM. We exist to help you love your family well. So remember, if you have more questions than answers, then you're probably in the right place. See you next time.