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- [00:01]
A
Hey, welcome to all Pro Dad Podcast. I'm Ted Lowe, and our big question to start us off with is, are sleepovers good or bad for kids? In this episode, we talk about why sleepovers have been a normal part of childhood for decades, but why more parents are starting to question them. The real benefits kids can get from sleepovers, like friendship and independence and shared memories, and the potential risk that parents need to think through before saying yes. I'm joined today by BJ Foster and Bobby Lewis and we're digging into how dads can intentionally think about sleepovers, not from fear, but from wisdom. If you've ever wondered whether sleepovers are a harmless rite of passage or something you should be more cautious about, this conversation is for you. Let's get into it. Okay, guys, here's our big question of the week. Are sleepovers good or bad for kids? Did you guys have sleepovers when you were growing up?
- [00:58]
B
Yes, all the time. When I was little, we had a couple families that were very close and we would spend New Year's Eves together and we'd go down to the Jersey Shore together. So shout out to the Matthias's and Langen's. We used to. I just remember being in this big room and we'd all have sleeping bags and it was just a blast. And I remember that as. As far back as I can go from age three kind of on. But then it. But the parents were all still in the house for, for that one. And I think one of the things we're talking about with this one is when you sleep over somebody else's house or have one of our kids, a kid, you have friends over to your house to sleep over. And I did that all the time as well too. So probably started maybe when I was maybe third or fourth grade somewhere around there, fourth, maybe fifth. And went all the way into high school.
- [02:05]
C
Well, you did that way longer than I did. I had exactly two sleepovers in my life. Same house, same kid just down the street. The first one I Remember was a 10th birthday party. It had a bunch of 10 year olds over there. We spent the night eating Rice Krispie treats and listening to Weird Al Yankovic. And then one of the kids went through a glass table in the middle of the night and sliced his hand open. And we didn't want to wake up the parents. So there's a bunch of kids crowded in the bathroom picking glass out of someone's hand. We are bad surgeons in fourth grade, that's for sure. But we didn't want to get in trouble it's just blood. Trail of blood through the house. So that was. That was not great. And then my mom's like, maybe not a group sleepover, maybe just one on one. So the next time I went down to the same guy's house, had a sleepover. And the next day I came home and she caught me looking through the dictionary and she's like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm looking up what condom is. I found this in a bedroom. And I was like. And she's like, what in the world is happening? I was like 10 years old. So we went into the older brother's room. You know, this is the youngest kid. And so the older. Older brother was like eight years older or something. As we went in, we found this like, box of condoms. Like, what the heck is this? I'm 10 years old. And I came home, my parents were like, mortified. You're like, what is happening? I'm like, I don't know. We were bored. We just went wandering around the house in the middle of the night looking for something to do, and we found a box. I didn't know what this was. So I learned after that. And my dad pulled me aside and said, son, it's time to have a very serious talk. I was like 9 or 10 years old. I was like, okay. And so we didn't do any sleepovers after that. It was 0 for 2.
- [03:34]
A
Oh, well, Bobby, you say Rice Krispie treats and Weird Al Yankovic.
- [03:41]
C
Those were the safest things that happened at the. At the sleepover.
- [03:45]
A
Okay, that and getting. Yeah, the cut hands a big deal. Sleepovers were a huge part of my growing up in the 80s. There was already less supervision back then, you know, than now. But when I look back at sleepovers, you know, they're pretty harmless in elementary school, which we started them in elementary school. But by middle school, you guys, it's where I took my first drink. It's where I saw pornography for the first time. It's where we tried tobacco for the first time. We snuck out a car, you know, and we were young, you know, this is when we met up with girls. I mean, it was all the things that just having a little bit of space and a little bit of assumed safety because you're at some parents house. And that was an ironic part. I was not hanging out with the quote unquote bad kids. These were good families in a small town that everybody trusted. My house was one of them. And. And the things that happened in those good homes and good families were not okay. And so I just think sleepovers are something that we need to really think through before telling our kids yes to. Do you guys have sleepovers now at your house now that I've scared you to death and you have to answer?
- [05:10]
B
Yeah, we, we, we do. We've had a bunch of kids spend the night for kids birthday parties and our kids have gone over to their friends houses. In fact, my daughter went to a sleepover last week about two weeks ago, just with two, a couple of her friends and yeah, so yeah, I still, I still do.
- [05:38]
C
Yeah, we don't do them very rarely. We don't have a glass table in our house. So I feel like it's okay to host if we wanted to, but we just haven't much. And the two or three times that we have done sleepovers, it's been with the same family. Like we picked a family like you're our sleepover family and we can be yours. And so we have like a lot of trust between those two, but we really don't do it much. Maybe I can count on one hand the number of times our kids have done a sleepover.
- [06:04]
A
You know what was really odd you guys, when I was prepping for this episode was despite the fact that had all of those experiences growing up about sleepovers, I don't think I had enough caution when it came to sleepovers when I was saying yes or no to my kids. Because I think on some level I thought it would be like saying hey kids, you're not allowed to go to birthday parties, you know, because I just thought it was part of a normal part of growing up and it was a rite of passage and it's just what we, we did. And you know, and I don't think I'm the only one because for decades, just like me and just like you guys, sleepovers have been considered just a normal part of childhood, especially in American culture. They became more popular in the 70s and 90s as dual income families and households increased and kids social life started to expand. They're very common in the United States, Canada and Australia. They're not as popular in Japan or Asian countries. In the Middle east usually this is due to a few factors like smaller homes or multi generational living, privacy expectations and other norms. But for us, you know, they are pretty common. So the point of the conversation is not to shame dads who allow sleepovers or pump up those who do. It's to get you thinking about sleepovers for your family. And each family will make decisions based on their kids and their relationships and their views. So we're encouraging you to do the thing that I wish I had done more when my kids were little and growing up, and that is to think deeply when it comes to sleepovers.
- [07:48]
C
Yeah. And like any topic that we're going to cover on the All Pro dad podcast, they're going to be pros, there are going to be cons. That's just the way it is. There is no real. There's not a lot of black and white in parenting. There's a lot of gray. And so we kind of, you know, sift through that. So you're going to have good and bad with this sort of thing. The important thing is to, you know, discuss it where dads happen to be. And dads are going to be asked by their kids, can we have sleepovers? That's just part of American culture. But I found a YouGov poll from 2023 that asked parents, do you think overnight sleepovers have more of a positive or negative impact on a child's well being? And I was surprised by the answer. 53 said positive, only 12 negative. And in between, some kind of a. I'm not sure was the answer. So sleepovers have a favorable view. You know, we, we've all got stories, we've all got, you know, experiences going to sleepovers, but for the majority of people, they said, yeah, sleepovers are good. So what are some of those good things that can happen as a result of sleepovers?
- [08:46]
A
Well, I think one of the things that dads can think of is good. You know, some people see that, you know, it builds deeper friendships, you know, those great memories, you know, or it's a chance for them to have unstructured time. And I think that we've talked about that on the podcast being a positive thing. I think it's good for kids to build confidence that they don't have to be with us all the time is a view for, for a lot of people. So I think for some people, they see that as a positive of sleepovers.
- [09:19]
B
I think maybe convenience, you know, the, the chance you can drop your kid off and it's a little easier on the parent schedule that they don't have to go drop them off and then an hour or two later go pick them up. It's. You kind of have the entire night. And, and I think also just inclusion kind of for the, you know, you kind of don't want to be the only kid not allowed to go. And so to be included and to experience kind of what everybody else kind of goes back into the Bonding thing that I think Ted is talking about a little bit.
- [09:53]
C
Yeah. I also think it keeps the fun going. Like on, on the weekends my, my son will play hockey games and every weekend after the game I overhear a kid saying, can we go sleep over at so and so's house? Like the fun doesn't, you know, have to stop in a kid's mind. They just want it to keep going forever and ever. And if they think sleepovers are fun, why would they not want to do it? They want to fun going. And so that's another positive of having sleepovers.
- [10:16]
A
Well, yes, sleepovers are very, yeah, they're very common and it can feel very extreme not to join in, but I think the tension is. Just because something is common doesn't mean it's wise in every situation.
- [10:32]
C
Absolutely. I did find more information from YouGov research that said 60% of people polled attended at least one sleepover growing up. So majority of parents have done it and now their kids are asking them to do it. But in the past 10 to 15 years or so, more parents have started questioning the idea of sleepovers primarily because of safety concerns and just lack of supervision. Maybe they're hearkening back to those memories, like, oh, I remember when I went, and mom and dad, they went to bed at 9 o' clock and we had free reign of the house. Maybe they're now thinking, oh, we're switching roles. Is this a good thing? YouGov also found that parents worry about a lack of supervision along with situations for bullying abuse. One that I hadn't thought about, but my wife brought up was potential gun access in homes and then pressure to, you know, try drugs, try alcohol, that sort of stuff.
- [11:24]
B
There are a lot of commonly reported studies that it would say that. And this is something to consider wholeheartedly, particularly when we're starting to think about, well, but I only let them go to places where I really know the parents, I really know the family and all of that stuff. But 90% of child sexual abuse happens by someone the child knows, not a stranger. It'd be trusted friends and relatives. So I mean, you know, you could be at your brother or sister's house with all of their kids and you kind of think that they're safe. And. But the reality is, is that that's kind of where most sexual abuse happens. So you have stats like 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 6 boys are assaulted before they're 18. Now that's not, that's not necessarily at sleepovers, but it's a stat that Makes you kind of think, okay, what am I sending my kids into? You know, are they truly safe? We can't know that for sure. So it makes sleepovers kind of when you think through them, that's kind of a complicated deal because you're never fully in control of. Of what they're. The environment they're walking into. And so that doesn't mean that. That. That it's going to happen. It doesn't even mean that it's likely going to happen, but it's a possibility.
- [12:57]
A
Well, I'll tell you, the stat that really stuck out to me, and what many parents don't realize is that a significant portion of abuse involving children is committed by other children or teenagers. The research from the Crimes Against Children Research center at the University of New Hampshire found that more than one third of those sexually abused children are juveniles. I think the other thing that we have to think about is pornography. You know, we don't have a big national study that says sleepovers cause pornography viewing, or sleepovers are directly linked to sexual assault. But we do know that most abuse happens, like you said, bj, with someone the child already knows, and that kids with phones are accessing explicit content at very young ages. So if phones are out without supervision at a sleepover, that's the environment where those known risks are more likely to happen. And we've had this happen to a friend of ours. And again, not trying to scare dads, but this is the thing happened to a good kid from a good family at another home that was good family with supposedly good kids. So I'm just saying we've gotta be aware.
- [14:12]
C
Levi. I watched a video from a husband and a wife. They do a podcast together. And the husband was, like, adamant. He's like, oh, my daughter will never do sleepovers. We've seen the statistics. We know that this sort of stuff happens all the time. You'll never, ever go, which is fine. That's a perfectly good opinion. But then what the mom said caught me off guard. She said, you're almost guaranteeing something will happen. That's not what we're saying. We're not guaranteeing anything bad is gonna happen at sleepovers. What we're saying is the environment's there, so you have to be very, very intentional about thinking through how you want this to look for your family. Because, like you said, we've cited it multiple times, and we should say it again. Most of the time, abuse happens by someone that, you know, if I had
- [14:55]
A
to do it all over again, I think sleepovers would have Been something that I would have been much more discerning about. I was discerning for my daughters. You know, hey, is there a. Is there a boy in the house? You know, is there an older brother? Way more discerning for them, but I would have increased my discernment with my boys. We're finding out now that our kids are older and they seem to enjoy sharing these stories with things that they got by with. And one of the things or all the things that they got by with at a family that we thought had the same values as we did, and we find out that they did not have the same values that we did, and they did sleepovers quite often. Boy, we. I just feel like, and this is just my personal opinion, I think we've got to be really discerning about it.
- [15:47]
B
I mean, yeah, I like, I think it's. You want to be discerning about it, but I think it's. I think the biggest danger is sending them into this without any kind of preparation at all. A lot of times we just kind of think, oh, fun, fun, fun. Go have a great time. You've got to prepare your kids. I, I would prepare my kids going into this in the same way that I would prepare them about riding their bike around the neighborhood without me, I would get them ready for all of the potential dangers. And, and it wouldn't be just one conversation. It would be multiple conversations of, okay, number one, it's okay. I'm prepped in the. In that this is not only a family that I trust that I'm close with, but that we have open communication. Not only just have the same values, but we have open communication. You know, even, even that night, just kind of, how's everything going? How's it, you know, what's, what's happening? How's this going to take place? Do they have. Are there older brothers there? And, and what does that. And do the parents over there share the same thoughts in terms of an older brother being there and what that looks like, but then also having conversations with my kids about, okay, it's inappropriate for someone to touch you in certain areas and using the right body part names to talk about that kind of thing? We ought to be having those conversations whether they're going to sleepovers or not. What's appropriate in terms of what you see? Are there other kids over there are going to have phones? Do their parents let them have phones from an early age on? And what, what, what you might be exposed to talking to my kids about that. And what's appropriate and what's not. My first exposure to pornography was at a friend's house, but not at a sleepover. So it can happen all the, that type of stuff can happen all the time. I talked to a, an expert who speaks to high school kids about pornography, and he said the number one and the number two places that kids see pornography for the first time is at sleepovers, but it's also on the bus. And so, but that's the thing. It's like, okay, well, then we should never let our kids ride the bus anymore. So we can kind of hold our kids back from some of these experiences or we can try to prepare them for, okay, when you see this, I want you to communicate with me. Me. This is, this is, this is what this can cause you, you, your, your friends start showing you some of these images. And let me tell you from my own experience, this is a weight you don't want to carry. And, or, or just even like we, when we have a sleepover with my son and his friends, our daughter spends the night in our room. Or if, if my daughter has friends over, my son spends the night in our room. You know, like, we don't allow that. And, and so, so it's. So some of it, I think, is, okay, who are you letting them go spend the night with? But then there's this, okay, are they prepped to go? Are they prepared to go? And are we going to be communicating throughout the process?
- [19:10]
A
That's great, bj. That's just a great principle across the board, right? Yeah. And I always love that you always bring that to tape. The table is about preparing our kids. I'm glad you pointed that out.
- [19:22]
C
Yeah. Communication is key. One thing that we've done with our kids, not just for sleepovers, but for any interaction away from us, we give them a code word. You've got a code word. If you call us, if you text us, if we call to check in with mom or dad, who you're hanging out with or whatever, and we speak to you, and you use the code word, which is very innocuous. Nobody would ever know what this word was. It would be very easy to just drop it into conversation. But if I hear that word, I'm coming to get you. And it's something that they know. We're not going to leave you in an unsafe environment. Whether it's unsafe or not, you feel unsafe, you say this code word, we're coming to get you. And it will be very, very plain. It won't sound like. It's not like Jackhammer or something that you can't work into conversation. It's a very plain word that we've discussed. And they know Dad's not leaving you when you're scared or when you feel threatened or when you don't feel safe. And so I think that's something that we can work into. The sleepover convers. Hey, we're gonna let you go. We believe in you. We. We've prepared you. We trust this family. But if I hear that word, I'll be there in five minutes. And I think that's a. A safety net kids can feel.
- [20:30]
A
That's great, Bobby. We've always done the same thing with our kids, because kids can get stuck in a situation they want to get out of, but they don't want the peer pressure of what it means, that escape. So we always told our kids, I'm
- [20:42]
C
fine with being the bad guy. I'm totally fine with being the. The scapegoat. Blame it on me. Me, Absolutely. I'll be the bad guy with your friends.
- [20:49]
A
That's what we told. Kids, throw us completely under the bus. You can be mean to us on the phone. When you call us for us to come get you using the code word, just say, unbelievable. I can't believe you're making me come home. I go, let's lie in the name of Jesus. At that point, you do whatever you need to do and I will come and save you. But, yeah, I think that's. That's true. And removing the pressure of what my friends are going to think of me if I get out of this unsafe situation. You know, we've talked a lot about how can we ask, and how are we thinking about things. BJ again, I love it. You're talking about preparing our kids from this. And I don't want to sound too extreme, but again, I look back and my dad knew the families that I spent the night with very, very well. And again, they were all good families. And our friends, kids, these were good families. But here's the thing. Good parents go to sleep at night, right? And often hyped up kids on sugar, stay up for a long time making bad choices. So I'm just saying we've got to be. We gotta be cautious. I've already said that a thousand times. But I do think we need to be wise. Yeah.
- [22:01]
C
And I think maybe one solution to this, if you want to call it a solution. If you're not comfortable with the idea of your kid going somewhere else, you can always host it yourself. Now, you're gonna rely on the other parents to be comfortable with you if you're gonna offer to host. But you might feel like you have a lot more control over this situation. Sit up all night on the couch if you have to, dad. Sacrifice a night of sleep if that's what it takes. But maybe that eases your nerves. If the sleepover is at your house, maybe that's a responsibility you wanna take on. You could also do what a couple of folks around the office suggested to me, which is the term is late over or sleep under where the kid stays until like 10 o', clock, 11 o' clock at night and then you go pick him up. You know, that's more work for you as a dad, but maybe that's a better option. The kid gets the full experience up until the point where we're sleeping and mom and dad have to go to bed. That's a great alternative. The kids will still get to have their fun. They'll get to do the movie or whatever they want to do. Eat the pizza. But then you just take them home. That might be a good option for you. I know that my wife and I were talking about this. She said she did that all the time. Her parents would go pick her up at midnight. Yeah, you're a little groggy the next day, dad, but you know, they got to have their fun and you came home. So consider that the idea of a sleep under or late over, it's kind of the same term. Could work for you. So if you are thinking about hosting a sleepover, here's a couple of tips that you can implement. Number one, everybody sleeps in a common area. Don't go closing doors. Nobody goes off by themselves in different rooms. Sleeping bags on the floor. Everyone gets their own sleeping bag. Everyone's out in the living room. I think that would be great. Build a fort. Like little kids love building forts with pillows and stuff. Everybody's in a common area. Number two, actually set a bedtime. Like it's called sleepover, not stay up all night over. So like, you need some structure here. We're all gonna be going to bed at set the time. I think that's an important thing, A very important rule here. For me, if I was doing this in my house, number three is have a smartphone. Curfew in my house, I would say probably don't even bring your smartphone. But if you are gonna have them, there's a curfew. The phone goes to bed at a certain time and that's not negot. I think that's a way to kind of head off some things you may not want kids to see. Number four, if you got a firearm in your house, lock that thing up. This is a no brainer. I feel like we shouldn't have to say it, but we'll say it again. Store those things securely. So many things can go wrong if you don't. So store your firearms if you have one. Number five, ask some questions. And if another family is standoffish about some of the questions you have about how things go down in their home, that's a real big red flag for me. I'm just not sending my kid. If you are offended by me asking questions about safety or if they're asking questions about you for safety, there's a disconnect there. We're just not going to do it. You don't want to get into a situation where you are trying to negotiate how things are going to go on sleepovers. If anyone's offended, just call the whole thing off. Number six, check in with your guests privately to see if they still want to stay over. If little Johnny comes over and he's, he's looking like he's nervous, pull him aside and say, hey, do you want me to call mom? Are you tired? Do you want to go home? That's a good thing to do as well. And then just remember if you're going to host, you're probably not going to sleep all night. That's just, that's the way it's going to go. Just stay up, sacrifice a night of sleep, everyone's going to be safe. Check in with the kids all the time. Even at 4 in the morning. Are you still asleep? Good. 4:30, you still asleep? Good. It's just a good habit.
- [25:29]
A
I think this episode is one of those episodes that we didn't as dads didn't think to think about. So I'm glad that we're thinking about it on, on a deeper, deeper level. I think you guys have taught me a few things on this episode. BJ I think just your point of preparing our kids regardless, I think that's important. I do think that there's situations where sleepovers can be okay, grandparents, maybe one set of friends. But I think think we've got to be very, very discerning and not naive when it comes to sleepovers.
- [26:05]
B
I think yeah, for me it kind of comes down to the situation and does it look like a good situation and then preparing kids and here's the reality, if you're going to let your kid go to a sleepover, you better be ready to have some difficult conversations about sexual abuse and pornography and all of that. And if you feel like your kid is too young to have those conversations, and I think they're too young for a sleepover. And unprepared and unready.
- [26:32]
C
Yeah. And every dad's level of comfort's gonna be different. Ted. Yours is different than mine, BJ's, mine's different than yours. Like, and whoever's listening to this or watching this, yours is gonna be different than all three of us. And that's fine. The point of this is for you to think critically about this topic. Cause your kids are gonna ask. They're gonna ask. And you need to be prepared to have a really good answer for them when they do.
- [26:52]
A
Bobby I think that is a perfect segue into our pro move of the week, and that is to make a pros and cons family about sleepovers. Create rules for hosting for any future sleepovers. And if your wife has questions about sleepovers or wants to hear a woman's perspective on the topic, you can direct her to our motherhood podcast, which is episode 76, and it talks all about sleepovers. We'll put the link to that in the show notes. Thank you again to BJ and Bobby for this great discussion. If you're listening to the podcast, did you know you can watch us on YouTube? Subscribe to the All Pro Dad YouTube channel. Today there you're going to find thousands of hours of content to help you be the dad who loves well. And as always, we want to thank you for listening. We know that you and your kids will be glad that you did.
- [27:40]
B
Thanks again for listening to the All Pro dad podcast. Behind every episode is our amazing team producer, Haley Moat, audio and video editor Buck Buchanan, and production coordinator Corey Wolf. All Pro dad is the fatherhood program of the nonprofit Family first, along with our motherhood program imom. We exist to help you love your family well. So remember, if you have more questions than answers, then you're probably in the right place. See you next time.