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- [00:00]
A
Hey, welcome to all Pro Dad Podcast. I'm Ted Lowe, and I'm joined today by Bobby Lewis, BJ Foster. Guys. Together we have nine kids and even more questions. Speaking of questions, I've got one of the. I don't know. I think this is going to be my favorite question of any episode, and it's this. What's the worst thing you got in trouble for at school?
- [00:25]
B
Well, you're assuming we got in trouble. We look like troublemakers to you?
- [00:29]
A
BJ does.
- [00:32]
C
I wasn't much, but something immediately comes to mind. So when I was a junior in high school, I had a friend named Evan and Jason. And I don't know how it started, but, you know when, like, a fight would break out in the hallway when you were in high school, like, everybody would gather around, and it would be an event. Like, you didn't want to. You didn't want to miss that because it was, like, an event. And so even when you saw two guys square off, it was like, oh, something's gonna happen. And, you know, like, you all are like, I'm gonna stay here. And. And so we just started doing that, like, where we pass each other in the hallway, and it would just. It would look like we were about to fight. Like, we would just get in each other's faces, and. And then we would start actually, like, fake fighting to see how many people we could convince that we were actually doing it for real. And then we would. We would break up and be like, all right, have a good class. And we would. And people would be like, wait, what? You know, what just happened? And. And. And we got really. We got really good at it. Like, I mean, my friend Evan would throw himself up against a door, and it looked so real, you know, And. And. And so.
- [01:44]
B
You're a tease. That's what you are. You got people excited. There was going to be a fight.
- [01:47]
C
I did. I did. Yeah. And so one day, we were, like, in a side park. Like, everybody at my high school parked in the back parking lot, and we were in a side parking lot, and I was w. I was actually walking around. They weren't there yet. I was just walking back towards baseball practice, and they came pulling up in their car, and they jumped out of the car, and we just started doing it. We didn't have a crowd this time. We were just having fun. And so it was the two of them against me. So I immediately go into. I'm being overpowered. I'm down, down on the ground. They're kicking me. I'm like, you Know, like, convulsing around and all this stuff. And. And then we got up and high fived each other, and we're like, all right, you know, see you tomorrow. We were laughing. We're like, see you tomorrow.
- [02:38]
A
What?
- [02:38]
C
What I didn't know was that there was a custodian that was cleaning up one of the classrooms and looked out the window and saw all of this. And he ran to the intercom and. And sent a message. You know, message the front office. He said, there's a student act in the back parking lot.
- [02:58]
B
Oh, man.
- [02:59]
C
And all of a sudden, the. Through the loudspeaker, through the entire school. I think the vice principal or something like that got on the main. Main speaker and said, all faculty report to the back parking lot. There's a student being attacked. So all of that was happening while we were doing this stuff. So. So I turned the corner, and I come to the back parking lot, and it is like a riot is going on. People going everywhere. There's students everywhere. There's teachers running all over the place. And I walked up to a friend, and I'm like, what's going on? And they're like, I don't know. There's a kid being attacked back here. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Really? Like, is. Is he okay? Where. Like, where's it happening? And they were like, I don't know. Like, we. We're just looking for it. And I was like. I was like, oh, well, like, Evan and Jason and I were, like, fake fighting in the other, you know, parking lot, but that couldn't be it. And. And so then I just went into baseball practice, and I was like, maybe that is it. And then I slowly, like, horrifyingly realized, like, that is it. Like, we just started. We just started a riot in the back parking lot.
- [04:13]
A
You know, I think, like, having ADHD before it had a name didn't do me any favors with. With teachers because I'm doing the blurting out. And I would always get on my report card, especially in elementary school, they'd have these little boxes that you would check, and it would always be talks too much, inclined to mischief. That was the closest I ever got to a diagnosis of that. And so I think that was very much part of my personality. But, you know, probably class clown. Like, I would get kids laughing, but it was never at the expense of. Of the teacher. But I do remember, you know, even apologizing to teachers, kind of not understand why I had done that. You know, say I would do better. And then neurologically the next day, not doing better, not understanding that. But I think teachers, they are dealing with so much. You know, the reason we're talking about this today is just want us to think through, like, what's going on with schools and our kids and their behavior. There was a study done earlier this year, Education Week Research center on student Behavior, and It showed that 72% of educators believe that students are misbehaving a little or a lot more since 2019. And a strong majority of those educators believe it's a lot more. One of the teachers said students, especially underclassmen, are louder, more belligerent, unkind, and socially awkward.
- [05:43]
C
Yeah, and I, you know, as I started to research this topic a bit, like, I'm noticing we're losing some good teachers because of it. Like, I, you know, I was. I saw one teacher who's been an educator for, you know, over 30 years say, yeah, this is probably my last year. Like, I don't think I can kind of take this anymore. My. My sister is. Is a kindergarten teacher, and she's been teaching for close to 30 years. And she's the type of teacher that. She's had a number of her former kids come back to see her when they're in their senior year of high school. She's that type of memorable kind of teacher that just loves all these kids. She would come to me and say, hey, do you want to see my kids? And she would go through the picture after picture. This is this person. This is this person. And this past time, I was with her. I was with her a couple weeks ago, and she was just kind of like, yeah, this one's a problem, and this one's a tra. You know, it's just. There was a different. There was different language around it. And I asked her the. I asked her that question, like, hey, are things, you know, is behavior the same? Is it worse? Is it better? And she was like, oh, it's way worse. It's way worse. Then, in fact, there was one. Another educator that. That I read about who. Who said, I used to worry about a couple kids here and there, like, just about how they would do. She's like, now it's the opposite. I worry about most of the kids. And there's a couple kids that I'm like, oh, I think they'll be okay.
- [07:20]
A
It's.
- [07:21]
C
There's a complete role reversal in all of that.
- [07:23]
B
Yeah, you'll laugh at this story because I was doing research for this particular podcast. I text a buddy of mine. He's also an elementary school teacher. I think he teaches third grade. And I text him this. I said, hey, we're planning a podcast discussion about student behavior. In your opinion, is it getting worse or kind of been the same as it's always been? And he replied, worse. I'll type in a bit. Dealing with a behavior issue at school right now. It's like, oh, well, that's right on target, isn't it? And so it took him a little while to get back to me, but then he wrote this. He said, when I started teaching in 1994, there were issues, of course, but on the whole, behaviors in general were a lot better, but that was when corporal punishment was still allowed. Kids in general have lost respect and the fear of authority. And it shows in behaviors across the board, but especially in middle school. Middle school kids have no respect for. And they're out of control often. That's what he said. And I thought, hmm, interesting. I'm sure this guy has a lot of conversations about this with peers in his profession. And so I went to my mom. I mentioned she was a teacher. Same thing, BJ, 30 years she's been in the classroom. And I said, mom, you know, what do you think? Is it getting worse? And her takeaway was similar to my buddy. She said, there's just a baseline level of disrespect for authority that did not exist in maybe a generation prior. And she's been teaching at all different levels. And so I take that, you know, to be pretty much gospel on this sort of thing. If you get multiple people like you, bj, talking about your family member, and then a buddy of mine and my mom all 30 years, and they all say the same thing. It tells us they're probably all telling the truth.
- [09:02]
A
Well, that brings us to our big question of the week, which is this. Why is student behavior getting worse? And then what? What can dads do about it? Why? Why is this happening? What do you think, bj?
- [09:16]
C
Well, I think one of the things, the first things that we need to consider is just the mental health aspects of a lot of young people. Even before, you know, a lot of this research is it's like, since the pandemic, you know, like, it's gotten way worse since the pandemic, since 2019. But even in 2019, there was this baseline of anxiety that kids had. When, when you think about the world that they are growing up in, you have all the, you have all the, the. The things of social media. They're seeing all these, all this stuff on social media. There's political Polarization, there's racial tension, there are school shootings. All of this is, is, has this cocktail inside of them of anxiety. And then all of a sudden you have a pandemic. So you bring about the, and, and just, not only just, okay, there are people getting sick and dying. You know, everybody knew somebody that got sick and died or, you know, was dealing with the effects of it in some way. So you have, that, you have this, you know, fear of that. But then there's also, there's financial, there are people losing jobs. There's, all of a sudden we have a shortage of re resources. So there's all of that stuff. So you have this underlying anxiety and then all of a sudden you tack onto it the, the fear, instability, lack of security, and all of that piling into this huge cocktail of anxiety below the surface for tweens and teens. And that has got to work its way out in some way or other. All of that pent up aggression, energy, it has to work its way out. And unfortunately for most tweens and teens, they have no idea how to handle that in a healthy way, in a way that's respectful. And a lot of times it comes out as in the form of lashing out, disrespectful behavior. Because at that, at those ages, they're starting to become aware of their impact on other people. Like middle school, they don't, they have no idea, they have no idea what their impact is on others. High school, they're starting to realize it. They're starting to realize their impact, but they don't care. It's like they're, they're, they're focused on themselves, so they don't care about their impact. And if you add all of that stress, everything going on, it's just, it explodes outward.
- [12:00]
B
Yeah, we have been homeschooling our kids for a while. And so that gives me the perspective of comparing. And we know a lot of homeschool families too. So I can compare a lot of the homeschool kids that I know to a lot of the public school kids that they play with, they do sports with, all that sort of stuff. And what I have noticed is that for us, our kids don't have that same level of anxiety because my kids have never done an active school school shooter drill, not one time. They never had to wear Covid masks with their classmates in a classroom because there weren't 35 kids around. It's just the three of them. So I do think there is something to say there. Look, the kids that are in these Public school, private school, 30, 40 kid classrooms. They've got to deal with a lot of stuff and they've got to go through a lot of those things. But when you were talking though, I was thinking you mentioned 2019's a lot of this data and a lot of COVID stuff. How long does that last? I mean, we're years removed from that. You know what I mean? Like, how long does that anxiety that was maybe introduced in 2019 linger? Because you're talking years and years have gone by at this point. And a lot of these places around the country no longer are feeling the effects of the stuff they dealt with in 2019. How long is that an excuse for poor behavior? If that poor behavior maybe started, then shouldn't it have fizzled out when the rise of the source of it fizzled out? I'm just thinking through now as we're
- [13:18]
C
talking about it now, when you have a wound that hasn't healed, when there hasn't been an answer to any of this stuff, then, then it's, then it's not, I mean trauma, you know, this is a, it's a very traumatic experience and trauma will last a long time unless you open it up and, and kind of take a look at it and call it for what it is, talk through it, get perspective and experience healing. That's the point when you can move on. But there's also another aspect of here, in, in all of this, that kind of goes conversation that Ted and I had with Chap Clark a little while back. And, and I, I would highly suggest that if you're a dad wondering about this, this would be a good, that would be a great place to go. Because one of the things we talked about that was systemic abandonment and that is that we have as adults have abandoned what we're supposed to do for kids. That, that everything has become adult centric. It's the coach who. It's about the coach's winning percentage. It's about how much money the school can because of higher test scores. And all of that leads to expectations and pressures that are put onto kids on top of all of the underlying anxiety. And that just kids are able to see that and they think this adult has an agenda that has nothing to do with me. It doesn't. They don't care about me. They care about satisfying their own agenda. And it makes kids not trust adults. So then it's easy for kids with all this pent up anxiety to kind of go, I don't trust this adult, I don't respect this adult. And therefore they're going to get the disrespect that I have for them because that's the way that they're treating me, that I don't feel respected by them, I don't feel listened to by them. And so therefore I'm going to act
- [15:12]
A
out just for clarity's sake. I know you're not saying out of this that all teachers are like this.
- [15:18]
C
No, no, no. I don't want to say that all teachers are like this. But it is, there is a lot of it. There's a lot of it. And sometimes, sometimes it's. We do it without even knowing we're doing it. Like we don't know that we're throwing expectations on a kid.
- [15:38]
A
My son is taught seventh grade for three years, so he really doesn't know any difference. And I asked him, I said, hey, what do you think about kids behavior? Like what's going on? And he says, I think the problem all started with COVID They're socially behind. A couple of years they've regressed because they were at home. And then they came back and they were behind in social development. So there's a problem. We talked about why there's a problem. Now let's talk as dads. You know, what's some action steps that can help teachers, that can help the classroom and most importantly, can help our kids? You know, what do students need?
- [16:17]
C
Well, I think, number one, I think they need us. I mean, I think that we definitely need to be at least a part of the solution, if not a majority. A significant part of the solution is dads.
- [16:35]
B
Yeah, 100%. I was actually checking out some research from the Institute for Research on Poverty. And one of the findings they had was this says, quote, in numerous studies, positive father involvement is associated with children's higher academic achievement, greater school readiness, stronger math and verbal skills, greater emotional security. The list goes on and on and on. Like it's always better for kids to have dad involved. Always at home, at school, if they're older, they're got a part time job, whatever you're doing, Dad's involvement is up and to the right for kids. You are helping them in every way. And so. Yeah, you're right, B.J. it's got to start with us. I think if we want to see change in school behavior.
- [17:16]
C
Well, and that's why, like I just, that's. This is where I think the all Purdad chapter program is a no brainer. I know this is a shameless plug, but, but it's just, it's you know, one once a month, Once a month, taking your kids to the school to have breakfast with them. In most cases that's how they, that's how they meet. And talking through number one, it's a lot of dads at the school all at once and talking through a different part of their character that they can grow and develop. And it's just a natural place to kind of talk about that. I think it's just kind of a perfect place to start. So I would highly suggest if you are a dad kind of thinking, gosh, how can I be a part of the solution? Look into, look into, see if there's an Alberta chapter in your, in your area and be a part of it. If there's not, maybe look into, maybe look into starting one. The program makes it easy to lead these things and so it's a great way, it would be a great way to, to change your community.
- [18:17]
B
Yeah. And at those meetings they learn all sorts of character traits that you can apply at home and in the classroom. One of them is discipline. I was talking to my mom and she said really one thing she sees through teacher student conferences, parent teacher conferences, like there's just kind of been a lack of discipline happening in a lot of these students homes. That was never the case for us. Discipline was part of the education process. There was an understanding, it was made very clear to us that you don't talk back to teachers, you don't do that, you don't put your hands on someone even if you're fake fighting in the parking lot. You don't put your hands on anybody at school. No.
- [18:54]
C
But like so convincing. We were so convincing.
- [18:58]
B
But I mean there was like this understanding like you're not going to misbehave at school, you're going to show respect to your teachers, you're not going to talk back to them, you're not going to be rude, you're going to sit down, you're going to do your work. It's very low bar stuff for us here. Like we had to meet that every day and there would be consequences if we didn't. And I think that dads set that tone at home and it can carry into the classroom.
- [19:19]
A
Absolutely. You know, we did an episode on Passenger parenting and about how sometimes dads especially can just go along for the ride. Mom's guiding everything, scheduling everything, is aware of everything. And as dads we can be the helper. I think this especially can be true for education. I know that was true for me and I can be guilty of that. Is Nancy was stay at home mom, especially at the first, raising our kids. And she was at the school more, she understood more of what was going on. And I think as dads we've got to get involved. And I always know that when I did, when I would show up at school, whether that was for their events or we used to go have lunch with our kids, you could show up in the auditorium and have lunch with them and our kid. Side note, my kids loved it. It was the biggest deal ever. I'm like, we eat at home together all the time. But it was something different. Maybe it's because I brought Chick Fil A that's probably, probably more excited to see the waffle fries than their own dad. But that's a different episode. But I think what it does, it gives us an opportunity to say to teachers who deserve so much respect, who deserve gratitude because kids are not going, thank you for forming me and helping me be a better educated and better human is that gives us an opportunity to be involved, but also to thank teachers, to say thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for poured into my kids. So I think that's a way we can get involved is when we show up at school and know what's going on with them in their education. Another thing that we can do is we got to help them deal with all this anxiety. We've done a lot of talking here to set up this thing about anxiety. And the kids are so anxious. How do we as dads, how do we help them with their anxiety?
- [21:11]
C
Well, we got to get to the root of it. I mean that's, that's. I mean we were talking about it with Bobby earlier, like how long? Gosh, it's been years since COVID But it's, again, it's going to be there, it's going to be there forever if we don't open it up. And teachers can discipline all, you know, all day long, which unfortunately I think a lot of parents react poorly to. And you know, it's kind of limited teachers ability to do that, which I think kind of exasperates the problem. But, but we really need to with our kids, get to the root of the anxiety and kind of talk to them about it. Give them empathy, give them a place where, where they can talk, show them that we're listening, show them that we care. And I think one of the most important things that this generation I think really needs is hope and optimism, which they just have lost. So giving kids hope and optimism and showing that we care and that we're listening. I think will kind of help some. It will help heal some of these anxiety issues.
- [22:10]
A
I think another thing, and we talk about this a lot, is helping our kids process, you know, what they're feeling, you know, And I know that sounds, you know, Dr. Phillis, but it's just true. Like, what are you feeling right now? Like, are you anxious? Are you stressed out? Are you sad? Like, are you embarrassed? Are you afraid? You know, feeling something help heavy and just asking those questions, you know. Again, bj, you talk a lot about this, not giving them a lecture, but just kind of going, hey, what is this? And then I think teaching them a few coping skills. I didn't know the power of breathing till about five years ago, if that long. Just the power of what happens to the nervous system with a few deep breaths. Just teaching our kids, take a deep breath, take three deep breaths. And I think, too, we've got to encourage our kids and we've got to join in on keeping them moving, exercise, play and fun to relieve all that stress, to let them be a kid. Which brings us to the next action point, which is to relieve stress away from school. How do we do that? Bobby?
- [23:21]
B
Yeah, I think one of the greatest things you can do as a dad if your kid is struggling at school is take the stress away when they're not holding their textbook, go outside, throw the ball with them, go for a walk, take the dog around the neighborhood, give them an outlet away from the homework. That's going to bring them joy. It's going to bring down the stress level, bring down the anxiety level. It's going to remind them that, like, all of life is not school. That's a big part of your life right now. But, like, there's other things going on. Let's relieve that frustration that you might be feeling. That will trickle into, you know, fewer behavior problems, hopefully, because you're there, you're with them. They know that, Like, I got this big part of my life that sometimes can be hard and frustrating, but I've also got this big part of my life where I get to hang out with dad and I get to just do these things that bring me joy. And it can look different for everyone's house. We started doing a board game night at our house. And so the kids know that Tuesday night we're playing board games. And it's going to be like this fun thing that we get to do. And so there's always something to look forward to. Schedule that. Schedule going to the park, schedule going for bike rides, have this thing that you can do with your kids because when you reduce the stress in their life, they go back into that big heavy part of life, which is school, and they don't feel all this other weight because you've relieved a little bit of it.
- [24:35]
A
I saw this study other day and I thought, oh, I always just thought that wrestling was just something that fun that helped me burn off energy or allowed me to hurt them a little bit in a legal way. But people think that dads wrestling with their kids, it's just to burn off energy or to have fun. But science says it's doing something much bigger. When you rough house, laughing, rolling around, letting them win, sometimes you're actually teaching them emotional intelligence. They're learning how to get excited and then calm down and how to tell the difference between play and real anger. See, for all these episodes that I've talked about wrestling with my kids and even my adults sons see, science is backing it up. BJ and Bobby, because you make fun of me for this off camera. So we're gonna. I just need to let that be said on camera that this is really good.
- [25:24]
C
I love that. I, I love the whole idea of, of kind of taking it up a level and doing like I. There's something in me, Ted, that like when I hear that like your report card that he's. What did it say? Something about mischief. Like he's inclined, inclined to.
- [25:42]
A
I am talk too much and inclined to mischief.
- [25:45]
C
So that described my dad to a T. And, and you know, he, he would do stuff that it was. It just all of a sudden it's like, oh my gosh, we can do crazy stuff. So like, so I, like I did a video where I talked about this. Like hey, that when, when you start to feel the tension, you need to do something nuts just to kind of show your kids that it's okay. Like. And one of the example that I shared was line the entire room with mattresses and throw sleeping bags over your kids heads and have them wrestle each other.
- [26:20]
B
I think you're both inclined to mischief. I think both of you are a little mischievous.
- [26:27]
C
Yeah, I am. I would say so.
- [26:29]
A
I think that is the perfect transition story, BJ right there. To jump into the pro move, which is to do one of these things when you're thinking about your kids behavior at school is talk to your kids about anxiety, listen and give empathy and hope. Two, work on some coping mechanism with your kids, whether that's just teaching them to take deep breaths, do something fun and crazy. This week to reduce stress. We've given you some ideas there and check out an All Pro dad chapter in your area or get info on starting one. And again, we'll put those, we'll put those in the show notes. You guys, this has been a, this has been a good episode. I feel like when we research what topics that dads want to hear that this is one that they definitely need to hear. That I didn't know until we did the research that they really did need to hear. Right? So thank you for all your hard work on this episode, you guys. It's super helpful for me and hopefully it'll be super helpful for our listeners. And speaking of listeners, listeners, if you could, could you consider sending this episode to a friend that you think it would be helpful for them? That helps more people to find us and of course it'll help your friend. As always, we want to say thank you. Thank you for listening. We know that you and your kids will be glad that you did.
- [27:53]
C
Thanks again for listening to the All Pro Dad Podcast. Behind every episode is our episode Amazing Team producer Haley Moat, audio and video editor Buck Buchanan, and production coordinator Corey Wolf. Allprodad is the fatherhood program of the nonprofit Family first, along with our motherhood program, imom. We exist to help you love your family well. So remember, if you have more questions than answers, then you're probably in the right place. See you next time.