S1: Bonus Ep 2 - Brian Entin Talks True Crime

Summary

American Homicide - Season 1: Bonus Episode 2 Title: Brian Enten Talks True Crime
Release Date: January 14, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts and Glass Podcasts

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Introduction

In this compelling bonus episode of American Homicide, host Sloan Glass ventures beyond retrospective analyses to spotlight three true crime cases anticipated to shape the landscape of 2025. Joined by Ryan Enten, Senior National Correspondent at News Nation and a seasoned true crime journalist, the episode delves deep into the complexities of each case, examining their current statuses, public perceptions, and the broader implications for the justice system.

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1. The Murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson

Overview:
The episode opens with a discussion on the high-profile assassination of Brian Thompson, the CEO of UnitedHealthcare. Luigi Mangione has been charged with his murder but has pleaded not guilty, setting the stage for a prolonged legal battle.

Key Points & Insights:

• Media Frenzy and Public Obsession:
  Ryan Enten highlights the intense media scrutiny surrounding Mangione's case. He recalls, “There was so much interest in the story even before the arrest” ([09:54]). Enten attributes part of this fascination to Mangione's charismatic persona, noting, “A lot of people think he's really attractive” ([09:54]).

• Mangione’s Image vs. Accusations:
  Despite the grave charges, Mangione's background paints a picture of a successful and well-liked individual. Enten explains, “Everything was great about this guy” ([12:08]), underscoring the dissonance between public perception and the accusations against him.

• Martyrdom and Cult-like Following:
  The discussion touches on Mangione’s unintended martyr status among certain groups. Enten observes, “It's disturbing” how mainstream attention has morphed Mangione into a figure surrounded by what he describes as a "cult-like" following ([09:54]).

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2. The Mysterious Death of Ellen Greenberg

Overview:
The second case delves into the baffling death of Ellen Greenberg in 2011. Found with 20 stab wounds in her Philadelphia apartment during a blizzard, her death was controversially ruled a suicide despite substantial evidence suggesting foul play.

Key Points & Insights:

• Inconsistencies in Ruling Suicide:
  Enten expresses profound skepticism regarding the suicide ruling, stating, “There's no way she would have stabbed herself 20 times” ([23:09]). He emphasizes the improbability of such an act being self-inflicted, especially with wounds penetrating critical areas like the spinal cord.

• Family’s Pursuit of Justice:
  Ellen’s parents have been relentless in their fight to have the case reexamined. Enten shares, “They’ve spent almost a million dollars of their own money for lawyer fees” ([26:52]), highlighting the financial and emotional toll on the family.

• Critical 911 Call Analysis:
  A pivotal moment discussed is the 911 call where Ellen's fiancé expresses confusion and hesitance, further casting doubt on the suicide narrative. Enten remarks, “It’s completely out of touch, and it’s an insult to the intelligence of the American people” ([16:16]), criticizing the initial investigation's handling.

• Legal Developments:
  The case has escalated to the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court, which will review the suicide ruling. Enten notes, “The Supreme Court is gonna have to decide whether or not Ellen's parents have the right to challenge the cause of death” ([27:12]), indicating significant legal progress.

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3. The Trial of Brian Kohberger: Accused of Killing Four University of Idaho Students

Overview:
The final case centers on Bryan Kohberger, who stands accused of murdering four University of Idaho students in 2022. The upcoming trial in August is poised to be a landmark event in true crime journalism.

Key Points & Insights:

• Early Investigation and Arrest:
  Enten recounts receiving a crucial tip via social media that led to Kohberger’s arrest in Pennsylvania. He shares, “I said, what's your phone? A dm, yeah” ([33:54]), illustrating the unconventional methods that sometimes aid in high-profile investigations.

• Kohberger’s Background:
  Despite his alleged crimes, Kohberger's background is portrayed as exemplary. Enten describes him as the “valedictorian” of his boarding school and a “leader of the book club” ([12:08]), challenging stereotypes about perpetrators.

• Trial Expectations and Legal Strategies:
  The discussion anticipates a contentious trial, particularly focusing on the use of investigative genetic genealogy. Enten anticipates, “They used that database to try to figure out who the DNA belonged to” ([38:14]), highlighting potential battlegrounds between prosecution and defense regarding evidence validity.

• Emotional Impact on Families and Journalists:
  Enten shares poignant moments, such as witnessing the victims’ families present at hearings alongside Kohberger. He reflects, “It's awkward” and describes the harrowing experience of seeing a baby during a hearing ([39:20]).

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Insights on True Crime Journalism

Throughout the episode, Enten emphasizes the ethical responsibilities of journalists covering true crime:

• Balancing Reporting and Emotional Sensitivity:
  Enten admits the challenges of remaining objective while connecting emotionally with victims' families. He confesses, “I can’t do it all the time” ([04:59]), acknowledging the personal toll of intense investigative reporting.

• Combatting Misinformation and Conspiracy Theories:
  The hosts discuss the rampant spread of conspiracy theories, particularly in high-profile cases like Mangione and Kohberger. Enten states, “It’s like a hobby for people to just come up with every crazy possibility” ([15:17]), critiquing the role of platforms like Reddit and TikTok in perpetuating unfounded speculations.

• Commitment to Justice Through Persistence:
  Enten pledges unwavering dedication to covering these cases, assuring families of continued support. He affirms, “I promise them that I won't stop covering it” ([29:15]), underscoring the journalist’s role in seeking truth and accountability.

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Conclusion

This bonus episode of American Homicide offers an in-depth exploration of three significant true crime cases, each with its unique complexities and societal impacts. Through insightful dialogue, grounded analysis, and emotional narratives, Sloan Glass and Ryan Enten provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of these cases and the broader challenges faced in the realm of true crime journalism. As 2025 unfolds, these cases stand as pivotal moments that will undoubtedly influence public discourse, legal proceedings, and media practices in the pursuit of justice.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ryan Enten ([09:54]): “There was so much interest in the story even before the arrest.”
• Ryan Enten ([12:08]): “Everything was great about this guy.”
• Ryan Enten ([23:09]): “There's no way she would have stabbed herself 20 times.”
• Ryan Enten ([26:52]): “They’ve spent almost a million dollars of their own money for lawyer fees.”
• Ryan Enten ([16:16]): “It’s completely out of touch, and it’s an insult to the intelligence of the American people.”
• Ryan Enten ([27:12]): “The Supreme Court is gonna have to decide whether or not Ellen's parents have the right to challenge the cause of death.”
• Ryan Enten ([33:54]): “I said, what's your phone? A dm, yeah.”
• Ryan Enten ([38:14]): “They used that database to try to figure out who the DNA belonged to.”
• Ryan Enten ([29:15]): “I promise them that I won't stop covering it.”

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For more detailed discussions and updates on these cases, tune into American Homicide every Thursday on Apple Podcasts, the iHeart app, or Spotify. Engage with us by rating and reviewing the show to help others discover American Homicide.

Transcript

[Ryan Entin]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Ryan Entin]

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[Sloan Glass]

Before we begin today, I want to say our thoughts are with everyone in Los Angeles grappling with the devastating wildfires. This episode was recorded before the fires began, but I felt it would not be right to not acknowledge the current events. It's a stark reminder of how fragile life can be. Our hearts are with you. This is Sloan Glass, host of American Homicide. In this episode, we're doing something different. Rather than look back at cases, we're looking ahead. It's the start of a new year and we have highlighted three cases we believe will define true crime in 2025. To discuss the status and implications of these cases, I am joined today by Brian Enten. Brian is the Senior national correspondent at News Nation. He's a former colleague of mine and a friend. Brian is an incredible journalist and he has personally covered all of these stories. The first is a story that captured the nation's attention at the end of the year, the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Luigi Mangione has been charged in that case and has pled not guilty. Brian and I discuss what is next for Mangione. Our second case involves the mysterious death of Ellen Greenberg. In 2011, Ellen was found with 20 stab wounds. Her death was curiously ruled to be a suicide, even though many of those wounds were in her back. After multiple appeals and Legal battles. The Pennsylvania State Supreme Court has agreed to review that suicide ruling this year. For our third case, we discussed the upcoming trial of Brian Kohberger, the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students in 2022. Ryan Entin is an expert on the Kohberger case and lets us know what we can expect. Here is my conversation with Brian Entin. Brian Entin, thank you for doing this episode of American Homicide with me.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Sloan. It's so cool to be here with you.

[Sloan Glass]

I like to do all my research for true crime on Reddit, as we all do. Right. That's where I like to see. What are the people saying? It's a vibe check. Almost every story I look up, someone has commented, well, according to Brian Enten. According to Brian Enten.

[Ryan Entin]

Well, and the thing with Reddit and with people on TikTok too, and on X, you have people who are so interested in the cases and so invested, and they'll stay up all night going through public records and finding out things that even I didn't know about family members and people connected to the cases, and then they'll send me tips. So it's. It's like sometimes I feel like I have this little army of people helping me, and you can find really interesting stuff on Reddit that you don't even see on the news.

[Sloan Glass]

Are you still newsdaddy? Is that still.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, that's still a thing. Yeah, newsdaddy and I used to be so embarrassed of it. I don't know where it came from. And now I'm just like, well, I guess it's a, you know, it's a thing, I guess, you know, there's a.

[Sloan Glass]

Comfort level that I think you've been able to give to people around really hard stories.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, I think that they just feel like, what you said, that I'm just normal. You try to be professional. We're journalists. You want to, you know, stick to the facts. But you'd be lying if you just tried to say you never got emotional or never felt anger or never related to some of the family members, that kind of thing.

[Sloan Glass]

I always saw that as an advantage. I always thought it was so strange when people would say, well, you have to leave that at the door. You have to remove yourself from it.

[Ryan Entin]

Or even that you can't help people. Like, it's just not who I am. Like, you know, you'll go out and you'll meet these families and they might need help with something. Like, hey, do you know someone who does this or, you know, we're really low on money. I don't know. I just. I can't just be like, well, line is drawn. I'm a journalist. I mean, that's wild. I can't do it all the time.

[Sloan Glass]

Everything we do here is trying furthering cases. These families deserve that. It doesn't just end when everyone else is forgetting and moving on. And they deserve to have those connections and for people to do investigative work, to try to see if there's something that someone else hasn't picked up on.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, I try to be real and, like, respect the families and what they're going through. And, you know, when you're in the middle of one of these cases, like with Kohberger, like, before the arrest, you know, when the community's so on edge, you just have to remember what people are going through, what the families are going through. And I try not to take advantage. I mean, it's not worth it for the story to be the first. Always. I would lose sleep at night if I felt like I put someone through more pain than they were already going through. You know, like with Co Burger. I just remembered this one story when I went. Kaylee Gonzalez, one of the victims. I became pretty close to her parents while I was in Idaho. And still now. And before Bryan Kohberger was arrested, I was at their house. They live near Coeur d'alene, which is a couple hours from Moscow, Idaho, where the murders happened. And we were doing an interview, and we were talking, and they showed me that Kaylee's ashes were next to Maddie's ashes. They had them next to each other.

[Sloan Glass]

They're best friends, right?

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah. Because they were best friends. And they just. Both families, like Maddie didn't want parents didn't want to take the ashes away from Kaylie's house, you know? Cause that gave them comfort. And so it was really an emotional thing to see. And we shot it, and it was gonna be a really big part of our story. And when we left, Kaley's mom called me and said, we really don't want you to show that part. Like, we thought about it, and we don't want people to think that, like, Maddy's family doesn't care about her or something. Cause it was the opposite. That's why they kept. You know. And anyway, of course, no questions asked. Like, I took it out, which I think other people wouldn't have done that. Cause in the moment, it was a really good exclusive element that no one else had. But like you were saying, when you stay on These cases for so long, it's not worth upsetting them. And then I would have felt terrible about it if she asked to take it, you know what I mean? Like the other crime reporters and from the other TV networks and stuff will come in. You know how it is. They'll parachute in for a couple days, they'll do some live shots and stories and then they'll leave war with like Coburger and some of the others. I've just stayed in those places, like basically moved to Idaho for a couple months and then been to pretty much all of the court hearings. So I think people kind of connect with that. They see that I stay at these places and get really, really invested.

[Sloan Glass]

You stay in your real. Yeah, you're not a scavenger in any way. You connect with people.

[Ryan Entin]

I try. Someone just yesterday called me a prestitute, which I had never. I've never heard that phrase before. But then I ended up becoming. Have you ever heard of that before? And I ended up becoming friends with a guy and like we bonded and he was cool with me after we talked.

[Sloan Glass]

Yeah, of course. I want to talk more about Kohlberger and everything surrounding that case later.

[Ryan Entin]

Okay.

[Sloan Glass]

Today I want us to kind of look at and think about the true crime cases that we should keep an eye out for in 2025. And also you are able to explain to everyone what it's been like to cover some of these stories in a newsroom environment in the field. It's impossible to start this without talking about Luigi Mangione and what has happened in the United Healthcare co shooting. Luigi Mangione has pleaded not guilty to charges in the cold blooded killing of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. This is a story I've never seen anything like this.

[Ryan Entin]

When the video came out and you had like a prominent CEO shot right there on the street and it was clear that he was targeted. I think the interest level was really, really high. Then even we were covering every single day and people were trying to figure. We got a tip actually that the killer might be from Atlanta. So they flew me to Atlanta. And this is what people don't realize. Like I was just sort of chilling in Atlanta. Cause we really thought, I don't know if you remember, they said that the bus went from Atlanta and we had some other tips and we were even talk about Reddit. People were sending me photos of people in the Atlanta area that looked like the guy in the surveillance video. We would go drive by their houses like we were really investigating the Atlanta area. So I was in Atlanta and then we got the call that they've got a person of interest in Pennsylvania. So got the first flight to Pennsylvania, but the newsroom was just. Was crazy. And I think what's interesting is there was so much interest in the story even before the arrest. And a lot of times when there's an arrest, like, it kind of goes down because it's like, okay, it's been solved. The killer's not on the run anymore. But with this, it was like the opposite. I mean, it went crazy when it ended up being Luigi Mangione.

[Sloan Glass]

He has become a martyr to a lot of people.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah. There's like an obsession, and it's interesting. It's almost mainstream in a way. It's not like it's, oh, there's this weird, crazy cult and people who aren't showing their faces doing this. It's like some people that I even know. I don't know if it's the same for you who have reposted some of these videos. You know, a lot of people think he's really attractive. And I think a lot of people have had bad experiences with their health insurance, and this is sort of an outlet for that. But it is disturbing. Have you ever seen so many photos come out of someone right away in terms of they took a photo of him in the jail, they took a photo of him outside. They took a photo of him, like, while he was sitting in his jail cell that they released. I've never seen them release photos like that. And then when he arrived in New York City, it was literally like a movie. I mean, you've got the mayor there.

[Sloan Glass]

And the way they paraded him, that felt totally unnecessary. That felt like it was slimy, I think. I agree. I thought that that was a slimy.

[Ryan Entin]

Move from Adams, obviously, for attention. And why so many? I mean, there were like, people in SWAT gear, and I think they were trying to make it into a scene. Yes. They were huge.

[Sloan Glass]

And I think that those guys just wanted to be a part of a big story. They wanted their photo taken. He looks like an apostle. He looks like he is being walked right into his crucifixion surrounded by apostles.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah. And I saw some videos, actually, where they made him into Jesus. Yes. And you wonder what he's thinking. I mean, is this the moment he was waiting for, like, to get this kind of attention?

[Sloan Glass]

And then it turns out that the alleged shooter, highly educated, he's a great speaker. A lot of people think that he's very good looking and he's not in a very apparent way, leaning one direction or another in terms of political parties. And I think that that made the story a lot more nuanced. Some people were imagining that this was someone who was very liberal, and it does speak to the climate that we are in today. And I think there's something about not viewing people one direction or another about this story that I think is important.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, I think so. And I think when the suspect name comes out, we start in the newsroom searching. You know, you've got researchers and people. Everybody's trying to figure out who this guy is, who the family is. And usually pretty soon you figure out, like, oh, there's. He had this previous criminal charge, or, oh, something bad happened or something. It was just so weird to. Everything was great about this guy. Everything. And we started talking. I interviewed people very early on, right after the arrest that went to high school with him. He went to this prominent boarding school outside Baltimore. $40,000 a year, really hard to get into. And he was the valedictorian, so he was at the top of the class. He was a really, really good wrestler, but he was, like, a nice guy. They all said he wasn't, like, bullying people. You know how sometimes those really cool, popular kids are like, jerks? He wasn't like that.

[Sloan Glass]

It's really rare. I was trying to think of. There's other stories, and sometimes people love to say, no one expected. No one expected. But there's always someone. There's always some girl who's saying, actually he was really weird, or someone in their class who says, this person was really off. And we have not heard that at all.

[Ryan Entin]

No, no, I didn't. I didn't.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's.

[Sloan Glass]

It's breaking all the. All the molds that I could have expected.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, not in high school. We interviewed people that he went to Penn with. You know, he got two engineering degrees there. He got his bachelor's and his master's, again described as great. He lived in Hawaii for. For quite some time at, like, a surfing hostel. And everyone he lived with there said the same. He was the leader of the book club. He was like everybody's best friend.

[Sloan Glass]

Was the reaction on social media. How did that translate in the newsroom? How did they interpret that?

[Ryan Entin]

It's interesting. Some of our bosses are so shocked by the people who love him and these fans that he has. And I think some of the younger people are kind of, like, understanding of it more, as weird as that is, and they don't agree with it. But I think, like, I don't know, maybe it's Generational. I just think, like, some of the older people are more shocked by this, like, admiration for him.

[Sloan Glass]

Right. I imagine that it would be a tricky story to cover when you're balancing the reality of what's happening on social media and also needing to deliver the facts of the case.

[Ryan Entin]

It is, too, because you kind of, you know, when you're covering someone accused of doing something so horrible, a lot of times you lean into the bad things about the person because now they've become an accused killer. Whereas with him, I remember even after a couple of my live shots, thinking, like, I just. I feel like I'm describing him as so, like, such a good person, you know? But everyone we were interviewing was saying that. I didn't interview anyone who said anything bad.

[Sloan Glass]

Brian. He is alleged.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah.

[Sloan Glass]

And I think that people forget that. Yeah, he is the alleged shooter. So I think you are reporting on him as you're hearing him to be. And I think that.

[Ryan Entin]

Of course, yeah. But the evidence. I mean, the evidence is pretty overwhelming. The manifesto he had, the police are telling the truth. He had the gun. He had gut bullets with him.

[Sloan Glass]

I don't. I have so many questions around that. And it makes me think of all the conspiracy theories that I don't think that they're gonna stop anytime soon.

[Ryan Entin]

I mean, there's always so many conspiracy theories with these cases now. I think people almost. It's like a hobby for people to just come up with every crazy possibility that they can think of. And then, like you said, they post it on Reddit and people comment, and there's been so many. I mean, the eyebrows.

[Sloan Glass]

The eyebrows are the only one that I can't. I have a hard time connecting the dots between him and all the photos that we saw when they were looking for a suspect.

[Ryan Entin]

It doesn't seem like all those photos were actually him. I think that they were just looking for people with a hoodie at that point that matched it. But again, if you go back now to the evidence that they have, I mean, it's a pretty good case in terms of he had the same gun on him. If police are telling the truth, which why would they be lying. The bullets, the manifesto, the id, the idiot. And I mean, what he screamed out outside the courthouse.

[Sloan Glass]

He didn't say, I'm innocent.

[Ryan Entin]

No. And it's completely out of touch, and it's an insult to the intelligence of the American people. Has lived experience.

[Sloan Glass]

So this is not going away anytime soon. It's only going to get bigger.

[Ryan Entin]

What's interesting, though, Sloane, as we talk about it moving into this year and all the things coming up with the Luigi Mangioni, we are not gonna see him for a while, which is kind of interesting. You know, we saw the crazy perp walks and all the photos and video. But now that it's federal, there's no cameras allowed in federal court.

[Sloan Glass]

What do you think of the federal charges?

[Ryan Entin]

I was surprised. I wasn't expecting it. I think a lot of people think that he was overcharged just because of all the attention on the case. But when you read the charges, I mean, it does make sense. I mean, it brings the death penalty on the table, which is interesting because if they were just state charges in New York, there's no death penalty. But now there is.

[Sloan Glass]

Yeah, I saw yesterday, I believe this was on NBC. They were saying that there's been very few federal death penalty cases where that has. I think they said 17 since the 1970s.

[Ryan Entin]

It's very rare in the federal system.

[Sloan Glass]

In 17 were under Trump.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah.

[Sloan Glass]

So I am curious to see how that can shape things. He's facing charges in New York State and then also federally. I think the federal trial is gonna happen first.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, that's the way it works. The federal charges come first, then the New York State charges, and then there's charges in Pennsylvania too. Remember, he showed a fake id. They were less serious.

[Sloan Glass]

But we don't know when the trial will be. And I think in 2025 we are going to continue to hear more.

[Ryan Entin]

And another random weird fact to keep an eye on this year is his attorney is married to Diddy's attorney.

[Sloan Glass]

Yes.

[Ryan Entin]

And Luigi Mangione and Diddy are in the same federal prison in New York City and likely in the same wing. Cause they have a wing where they put more high profile people. So it's just kind of strange to think about.

[Sloan Glass]

It's so weird.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, isn't it?

[Sloan Glass]

It's so weird too, because a month ago no one knew his name and now we're talking about how crazy it is that someone that high profile would be jailed in the same area as Diddy.

[Ryan Entin]

Mm. It's weird.

[Sloan Glass]

I always wild how news works.

[Ryan Entin]

I don't know if you think about this when you're covering cases, like in the beginning, like when the name first comes out, I always have a hard time remember it. Like Luigi Mangioni. How am I going to remember that? And now it's just like we say it, like it's, you know.

[Sloan Glass]

Yes, totally.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Ryan Entin]

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[Unknown]

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[Sloan Glass]

I want to also talk to you about our next case. Ellen Greenberg Ellen Greenberg's death happened. You probably don't know this. So close to our offices. I mean less than. Less than a mile.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Ellen Greenberg's body was found in the.

[Ryan Entin]

Kitchen of her apartment during a blizzard in late January of 2011. Court records show Ellen's fiance was at the gym and returned to find their mani unk apartment door dead bolted after an hour of trying to reach her. Record show he broke down the door to find Ellen slumped in the kitchen. She had been stabbed 20 times. The Philadelphia Medical examiner originally ruled her manner of death as suicide, then changed.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It to homicide before switching it back to suicide.

[Ryan Entin]

Since then, her parents have been fighting to get this case reopened.

[Sloan Glass]

Ellen Greenberg was found dead in 2011. She was 27 years old. She was a school teacher in Philadelphia. And we're not going to be able to get into all the details of these cases because of the time that we have, but her fiance at the time says that the door to their apartment was locked. Eventually he has to kind of break down the door. According to her fiance, Sam. He sees her unconscious. She's covered in blood. And then he calls 911. He is telling the 911 operator that he has no idea what's going on. They ask him to perform cpr. Kind of hesitates.

[Ryan Entin]

He hesitates.

[Sloan Glass]

That's. That bothers me.

[Ryan Entin]

Very strange 911 call.

[Sloan Glass]

Very strange. We'll play the 911 phone call. Okay, so get her flat on her back. Bare her chest. Okay, you want to rip her shirt off. Okay, you need to kneel down by her side.

[Ryan Entin]

Oh, my God. Allie, please.

[Sloan Glass]

Listen, listen.

[Ryan Entin]

You can't freak out, sir.

[Sloan Glass]

Cause.

[Ryan Entin]

Okay, I'm trying not. I'm trying not. Her shirt won't come off. It's a zipper. Oh, yeah. She stabbed herself. Where? She fell in a knife.

[Sloan Glass]

Oh, no.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Her knife's sticking out.

[Sloan Glass]

What?

[Ryan Entin]

There's a knife sticking out of her heart. Oh, she stabbed herself? I guess so.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I don't know where she fell on it.

[Sloan Glass]

I don't know. I don't like getting into the habit of overanalyzing 911 phone calls because I don't want to. Who knows how people will react?

[Ryan Entin]

Very fair. First of all, this case, it makes me mad that. That it's gone on this long and this has been classified as a suicide. I actually saw the real crime scene photos, which haven't been made public, but Ellen Greenberg's family lawyer showed them to me. And she's sitting in her kitchen when he goes in. You know, the police got photos of the way she was sitting. She's up against the cabinets, and there's just this giant, like, seven inch steak knife just right in her heart. And it's. I forget how long into the call, but it's quite a ways into this call that, oh, my gosh, there's a knife.

[Sloan Glass]

So she stabbed herself.

[Ryan Entin]

Yes.

[Sloan Glass]

Or she fell on her knife.

[Ryan Entin]

So, Right. He's.

[Sloan Glass]

It says she fell on her knife.

[Ryan Entin]

So you saw these pictures, Sloane. And I wouldn't want anyone to see them because they're awful, but I wanted to see them for this reason. There is no way you would miss this knife. There is no way. Not to mention she was stabbed 20 times in the front and in the back. And there's been medical experts, pathologists, who have gone and looked at the records and even examined her spinal cord. She was stabbed in her spinal cord, which would have made her. Like, she wouldn't have been able to keep stabbing herself.

[Sloan Glass]

It feels like a joke to call it suicide. It's unbelievable. And what happened originally was the medical examiner ruled it a homicide. A homicide?

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah.

[Sloan Glass]

And then there's this meeting with Philadelphia police, and it gets changed to suicide.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah. Which has never made sense. And you mentioned the fiance's name's Sam Goldberg. I mean, look, he has never been charged with anything. Who knows if he's involved or what? But it's not a suicide. It's just not Sloan. I mean, I've looked at everything. I've looked at the record. It's impossible for this woman to have killed herself. Yeah. Stabbed herself 20 times and in the spinal cord.

[Sloan Glass]

It's so strange to me for your mind to go to suicide. And again, I'm projecting. I have not been in this situation. I don't know what it's like to be in shock. But if I walked into my apartment and I saw my fiance on the floor covered in blood with a knife in their chest, and he says on the 911 call, no, no one broke in. How can you know that right away? I mean, my mind would go to so many other places I feel really bothered by. And maybe this is part of 2011, just because she was on prescribed medication, that this was seen as someone who was mentally ill.

[Ryan Entin]

I mean, listen, they thought it was a homicide at first.

[Sloan Glass]

Right.

[Ryan Entin]

They called it a crime scene. You mentioned the blizzard. I think that's important because I don't think, like, as many police officers were able to get out there, and detectives initially, but they called it a homicide. Police met with a medical examiner. It got changed to suicide. But even since then, the medical examiner has said has considered changing it back to homicide. And at one point even told one of the prosecutors, I intend to change it back to homicide. I agree. But for some reason, it's just never happened.

[Sloan Glass]

Right.

[Ryan Entin]

And no one will say why. I mean, she was a schoolteacher. She was a wonderful woman, but it was just little things. You remember, one of the friends told me, like, she was obsessed with her hair. Ellen. She was really into her hair. And they're like, if she was going to kill herself, which she never would have, there is no way she would have stabbed. Cause it was all in the back of the head, in the hair. They're like, she would have never done that to her hair. Which they're just like. As her best friend, I just know that that's not the way she would have done it.

[Sloan Glass]

I always think about, with the snow, her family couldn't get out right away to be with her. You've spent time with them, Right. What was that like?

[Ryan Entin]

Hard. They've been Fighting for so long, they've spent almost a million dollars of their own money for lawyer fees. Just fighting, fighting, fighting. They're suing the city now they're suing police, trying to, you know, claim that there's a cover up and just fighting to try to get the case reopened. And everybody, you know, they hire all of these experts and pathologists who all say the same thing. There's no way it could be a suicide. But for some reason, the city of Philadelphia just has dug their heels in.

[Sloan Glass]

Pennsylvania is part of the reason why people are talking about the story again, because of Josh Shapiro. He's the governor of Pennsylvania, seen as potentially a possible VP pick for the Democratic Party. But he was Attorney General. Right. And they turned it over to him and he kept the ruling as status quo.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah. And that's always been very upsetting to the family. And I was even there. So there's two things that are ongoing now with this case. One is their suing the city in Philadelphia police. And there was a hearing I was just at. It was so weird to be in the courtroom. Cause there's Ellen's parents and they have their lawyer and their little legal team. And then on the other side of the room is just like all these lawyers for the city of Philadelphia. Like they're fighting the city of Philadelphia. The city of Philadelphia does not want, like to release records. I don't. I mean, their lawyer thinks that maybe it was just a botched investigation and now they're just trying to cover it up. Really the only thing they can do at this point is sue them for their pain and suffering and saying, you've caused all this pain and suffering by covering this up for so long. But then they're also taking this to the Supreme Court in Pennsylvania, which is a really big deal. It almost never happens. The Supreme Court took the case, which is huge. And so they're going to hear it in the beginning of this year. And that's gonna be a really big deal because the Supreme Court is gonna have to decide whether or not Ellen's parents have the right to challenge the cause of death.

[Sloan Glass]

Initially, they said that there was no sign of struggle, which was part of the decision to keep the cause of death as suicide.

[Ryan Entin]

Right. And they just didn't think there was a way. You know, I think the apartment's on the third or fourth floor. And then the door was locked, they said. So they thought there was no way for anyone to have even gotten in to kill her.

[Sloan Glass]

But she did have bruises on her body.

[Ryan Entin]

I saw the pictures. She did have a lot of bruises.

[Sloan Glass]

There's something that just means there are no sign of shock.

[Ryan Entin]

Sloane, this is just one of those. There's something we don't know. There's a reason. Again, was it just shoddy police work in the beginning and then they were trying to cover up for the one before that and one. You know what I mean? Or is there something more going on where they trying to protect someone? I don't know. But there's no question that it is not a suicide and that this family has just. I mean, there's just been an injustice.

[Sloan Glass]

What do you say to them when you're with her parents?

[Ryan Entin]

I promise them that I won't stop covering it. And that's all you really can do. I mean, that we'll stay on it, that we won't give up. We'll keep doing the stories. And I think that gives them some. You know, they've been abandoned by the police and people for so long.

[Sloan Glass]

You know, Ellen Greenberg is a case that in 2025, I'm hopeful that there will be some movement forward.

[Ryan Entin]

Even though this happened in 2011, I hope they still get justice.

[Sloan Glass]

Yeah, truly.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Ryan Entin]

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[Sloan Glass]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance.

[Ryan Entin]

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[Sloan Glass]

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[Sloan Glass]

I want to talk to you about Bryan Kohberger. We're having a trial this year in August. Can you just set up for everyone what happened?

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, so basically, you know, these four University of Idaho students were asleep in their beds in Moscow, Idaho, and they were just savagely stabbed to death in the night. And there was a massive manhunt. No one knew who did it. You know, the country was really just perplexed and into this story. And then Bryan Kohberger was arrested. He was getting his PhD in criminology at Washington State, which isn't far from University of Idaho, where this happened. Probably about 20 minutes he was arrested. And it's just sort of dragged on for a couple years in terms of the court process. And now there will finally be a trial in August.

[Sloan Glass]

I want you to tell the story about when you first got a tip about Kohberger.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, I'm just.

[Sloan Glass]

You have to tell that a lot.

[Ryan Entin]

No, no, there's just so. There's so much with Kohberger. It was like my life for.

[Sloan Glass]

Yeah, talk about that, but. Cause you lived there, you moved there. What it's like to be embedded in.

[Ryan Entin]

A story like that, you just become obsessed. Especially. Cause, you know, there was no arrest for so long and there was. I mean, again, I became close to the families. These were just innocent kids, innocent college kids. And, you know, just I became obsessed with trying to figure out what happened. And we mentioned like the army of people online. Like, you know, the whole country and world was like, obsessed with it. So it was really an intense time. And I got this tip and I don't want to, like, give away too much because I don't want to give away any sources or anything. But I got this tip to come to Pennsylvania because there had been an arrest, and it was from someone that worked within the jail system. And that's what's so interesting. Like, you know, a lot of people have like these high up law enforcement sources, and I have some of them, you know. But for me, like, the people who always come through for me are just like regular people that I've met on social media who know someone or they just contact me directly. And that's kind of what happened in this situation. And they were just like, you need to get to Pennsylvania right away. Like, you know, it was just a random message on social media. So I said, what's your phone?

[Sloan Glass]

That is. You got a dm?

[Ryan Entin]

A dm, yeah. And I talked to the person and got on the plane and that's how we were the first ones to break it. Yeah.

[Sloan Glass]

I remember on the other side, things being in the newsroom and hearing entends being sent to Pennsylvania, we're like, why is. You can't pull him? Cause none of us knew right away why exactly you were going to Pennsylvania.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, I remember telling my boss, like, I think I need to go to Pennsylvania. I'm not positive, but I have a really strong feeling that this is gonna be it. So we went and then the, you know, the arrest happened, or the arrest had already happened, but it came out that he was locked up. And it was just. It was crazy. I went out to their house, to his parents house where he was arrested. Just kind of another crazy story, kind of to like sneak into the gated community there. Cause they lived in a gated community. Which again, is just kind of my style. Like every, you know, all the other reporters are outside and I'm like, can someone get me into the gated community? How did you sneak in again? Someone messaged me on X Twitter at the time and said, oh, I live in the neighborhood. Just FYI, Like I. And I just. I wrote her back. I'm like, can you take me in? Like, can we meet at the gas station down the street? And so she met me, I got in her car and she drove me in and took me to their house. And like the front window was all bashed. Cause, you know, the police had busted inside.

[Sloan Glass]

Wow.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah. So I videoed. And there's been a few times I've done things where maybe I went a little too far. This might have been one of those times. It was so dark. I went up to their door and like knocked on the door and videoed. And they were inside like saying, leave, leave. And some people got mad at me for that. Cause people felt for his parents, you know, it wasn't their fault. And I was banging on their door like in the middle of the night. But, you know, it's like you kind of have to do it. You never know. People want to talk too sometimes, right?

[Sloan Glass]

That is the thing. Sometimes people want to answer the door. It happens a lot. Yeah, it's really unbelievable, Bryan. And then you're. It's not like it ends for you there. You're just embedded in the story.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah. I mean, we followed him back to, you know, they transported him back to Idaho. And like I said, I go to most of the court hearings. It's interesting. The trial's been moved. You know, it was in Moscow, Idaho, which is just this little baby college town. Little. And they were worried they wouldn't be able to get a fair jury there. So it's been moved to Boise, which is a bigger city. And so that's where the trial will be in August. In Boise.

[Sloan Glass]

Wow.

[Ryan Entin]

Which is hard for the families. They have to travel there. It's probably gonna take two months. The trial.

[Sloan Glass]

I'm so curious what his defense is gonna say.

[Ryan Entin]

I think it's gonna be a crazy trial because there's been a gag order. So we know the basics from the probable cause affidavit that came out when they arrested him. But there are all sorts of questions about whether he knew the victims and what led up to the murders. And like all of that stuff has remained under seal.

[Sloan Glass]

Right. And I just want to give more background for people. So there's no clear connection, no direct clear connection between Kohberger and the victims?

[Ryan Entin]

Not that we know of, no.

[Sloan Glass]

And what's believed at this time is that he was possibly stalking them.

[Ryan Entin]

Possibly, yeah. Could have been stalking. We don't know. Why?

[Sloan Glass]

Why them?

[Ryan Entin]

One theory is, you know, he. And I've reported this and interviewed people, you know, he had a rough time with women, rejection at times. And then he was really awful to some women and even got kicked out of a bar once cuz he was just awful to this one female bartender. So there's one theory that, you know, he just had this like hatred for women from rejection.

[Sloan Glass]

Right.

[Ryan Entin]

But then there is also he was getting his PhD in criminology. He had done a survey about what it felt like for people when they committed crimes. So some people think he was trying to get into the mind of a.

[Sloan Glass]

I don't buy that. Maybe when he was doing the survey, he was trying to get into the mind of a killer. I don't think that's the reason why he killed. I don't think he was living out some fantasy of the perfect crime. To me, that just feels like too much of a game. It feels personal. I just don't know what the connection is between him and the victims. And you can see from his phone records, he kept driving by their place.

[Ryan Entin]

That's what the prosecution says. The defense has said, oh, you know, it was pinging in that area. Cause he liked to go on drives and stargaze. So that's one thing that's come out that could be the defense.

[Sloan Glass]

Interesting.

[Ryan Entin]

It's gonna be interesting because they you know, they found the knife sheath in the house. That was the big connection. He allegedly left the knife sheath behind, and then they found a piece of DNA on the knife sheath that connected back to him. But the way they did the DNA testing is, like, really experimental these days. The defense says it's called investigative genetic genealogy. And basically, they got the piece of DNA off the knife sheath, and then, you know, like, 23andMe and you can do those things. They used that database to try to figure out who the DNA belonged to, which hasn't been done. Like, the Golden State Killer, which hasn't been done a lot, though. And I can already tell that the defense. That's gonna be something they really go after, like the science of that and how accurate it is. But there's a lot. I think there's a lot we don't know. The prosecution might have a lot that we don't know.

[Sloan Glass]

Right.

[Ryan Entin]

Because, again, the staggering. That's why I think it's gonna be a really interesting trial. I think it's gonna be one of those trials where there's just a ton of new information that comes out.

[Sloan Glass]

Yeah, I agree. I also think he just has a certain look about him that he's haunting.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, he's intense.

[Sloan Glass]

He's intense.

[Ryan Entin]

I mean, I've been in the same room with him a lot of times for, you know, for these years.

[Sloan Glass]

What is that like?

[Ryan Entin]

It's awkward. Especially when it was in Moscow, Idaho, before. It recently got moved to Boise, so the families would come in for the big hearings. And he sits so close to them, I mean. Cause it's just awkward, you know? Like, the one victim, Kaylee, her sister came to one of the hearings and had a baby. And so she brought her baby to the hearing, and the baby was like. I don't know. I always think back to this. It's like one of those moments I won't forget. The baby was, like, kind of cooing during the hearing. But, like, Bryan Kohberger was so close to them. Like, you know, just right over. Right. You know, maybe 10ft away. And it was just so weird. Like, here's the guy accused of killing your sister, and you're sitting right here with your new baby, all in the same little room together. Just like. You know, certain moments, you're just like, this is really intense.

[Sloan Glass]

Yeah, this is. It's become some sort of generational.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah.

[Sloan Glass]

Weird. Cosmic. And I don't mean cosmic in a karma way. I mean cosmic. And how did we end up here?

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah. And families want to. And I Get it. I mean, luckily I haven't had anyone in my family get killed or anything, but, you know, there's a real desire to go to these court hearings and to be there and show face.

[Sloan Glass]

Yeah, it makes sense. Also, I think it, I mean, the advice that families get is that being seen goes a long way and helps the judge and the jury to understand them more. That's part of the, of the whole judicial system. That's so awful. Kind of the, the spectacle.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah, but it's, it's true. I mean, if you, if you're the judge and you see the family members sitting right there crying, you probably are going to think to yourself, look what, look what this person may have done to this. You know, of course, when you make.

[Sloan Glass]

Your decisions, they're a human being.

[Ryan Entin]

Yeah.

[Sloan Glass]

You know, a judge is not a computer. It's, it's wild. Brian, I know that we're all going to be watching you covering that trial and I'm just so grateful that you joined us today.

[Ryan Entin]

Of course.

[Sloan Glass]

Thank you for helping us to kind of get a sense and understand the stories that we can look out for and also just revealing more behind the scenes of your life and what it's been like.

[Ryan Entin]

Thanks for having me.

[Sloan Glass]

Thank you for listening to this bonus episode of American Homicide. You can contact the American Homicide team by emailing [e-mail] that's AmericanHomicidePodmail.com New episodes of American Homicide will be dropping every Thursday. And if you enjoy American Homicide, please follow the show on Apple Podcasts, the Iheart app or Spotify. Another way to engage with us is to rate and review the show. Their five star review goes a long way towards helping others find American Homicide.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Sloan Glass]

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[Ryan Entin]

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