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Ellie Flynn
From audio up, the creators of Stephen King Strawberry Spring Comes the Unborn. A shocking true story. My babies. Please. My babies. One woman, two lives and a secret she would kill to protect. She went crazy, shot and killed all her farm animals, slaughtered them in front of the kids, Tried to burn their house down. Listen to the unborn on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. We want to speak out and we want this to stop. Wow. Very powerful. I'm Ellie Flynn, an investigative journalist, and this is my journey deep into the adult entertainment industry. I really wanted to be a Playboy model. He was like, I'll take you to the top. I'll make you a star. To expose an alleged predator and the rotten industry he works in. It's honestly so much worse than I had anticipated. We're an army in comparison to him. From Novel Listen to the Bunny trap on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Decisions Decisions, the podcast where boundaries are pushed and conversations get candid. Join your favorite hosts, Me Weezy, WTF and Me Mandi B. As we dive deep into the world of non traditional relationships and explore the often taboo topics surrounding dating, sex and love. Every Monday and Wednesday, we both invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. Tune in and join the conversation. Listen to Decisions Decisions on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Cherry Hill, New Jersey police officer Richard Bombert investigated the 1994 murder of Carol Newlander. She was the wife of esteemed Rabbi Fred Nulander. And in going through the case, I came across a photograph and it was Fred and Len Genoff standing with their arms around each other. Len Genoff was a private investigator the Rabbi hired to find his wife's murderer after Carol's death. He actually married Len Genoff in the same room that Carol was murdered in. And there are wedding pictures of them arm in arm. Fred and Jen off right where Carol was laying when she was murdered. How could Rabbi Nulander celebrate marriage in the same room his wife was murdered? And why? It was really bizarre. We're in Cherry Hill, New Jersey today for part two of who Killed Carol? I'm Sloan Glass and this is American Homicide. And just a note that this episode contained some graphic content. Please take care while listening. Cherry Hill lives up to its name. Every April, that's when a two mile stretch of road through the town transforms into a sea of pink and white as the Cherry Blossoms bloom. It's a nice area to live in. Nice area to raise your family. Richard Bumbear worked as a Cherry Hill police officer in the 90s. Back then and even today, Cherry Hill was your quintessential middle class suburb. With sprawling subdivisions and a huge shopping mall, it was considered a safe town to live in. One where you wouldn't lock your doors. So you can imagine their shock following the 1994 murder of Carol Neulander. The community was just terrified. They didn't know what happened, if it was a random act of violence and somebody tried to rob Carol and take her money and kill her to whether it was sought out or planned. It was Cherry Hill's first homicide in years. And the victim, Carol Newlander, was a respected mother of three who ran a popular bakery, which is why she often had a lot of cash on her. She and her husband, Rabbi Fred Nulander, were like royalty in South Jersey. No one in a million years thought that Fred Nulander, a prominent rabbi in the community at the time, was a suspect or had any involvement with it. Absolutely no one could make sense of why Rabbi Nulander would officiate a wedding in the very spot where his wife was murdered. When Fred Nylander became a person of interest, it was devastating to the community. People started questioning their religion. People started questioning everything about them. And it was horrible. It was absolutely horrible. Len Genoff's wedding happened in 1997, about three years after Carol's murder. And if that wasn't disturbing enough, their reception inside the Newlanders home featured a cake from Classic Cakes, the bakery Carol had founded. Even if you had no involvement at all, none at all, not only are you going to probably sell the house and get out of it, but you're not going to marry somebody and take pictures right where your wife was laying when she was murdered. Pretty tasteless. Absolutely. It is tasteless and suspicious. The rabbi was never named a suspect, but also never cleared. He had an alibi, but it was overshadowed by news of his multiple affairs. And then there was a controversial polygraph test. Sometime after the murder, Fred's lawyer took him from Cherry Hill down to Virginia to have a lie detector test. Arthur Megidda wrote a book about the Newlander murder. Fred was asked if he killed Carolina. The needles on the machine were fine, nothing abnormal. Fred was asked if he had anything to do with Carol's murder. At that point, the needles went crazy and wavered back and forth. The rabbi's lawyer said Fred was under a great deal of stress at the time and was on Medication. Polygraph experts have said that makes no difference. Either you're telling the truth or you're not telling the truth. About a month after Lenjenoff's wedding, inside the new prosecutors made a curious move. They impaneled an investigative grand jury to see if there was enough evidence to charge Rabbi Nulander. More than a dozen witnesses were called to testify, including his children, the rabbi's mistress, Elaine Sunseni, and Len Genoff. The rabbi was never called to testify. And while this was going on, he told reporters he had nothing to do with Carol's murder. He invited a woman, I think, from Philadelphia magazine into his home, and his first words to her were, yes, I'm Fred Neulander. I'm the man you love to hate. The grand jury met for nearly a year before things for the self described man you love to hate took a drastic turn. Early one morning, the police performed a traffic stop of Rabbi Nulander just a few blocks from his home. They ordered him out of his car, and then they handcuffed him and placed him under arrest. They charged him with orchestrating the murder of his wife. Everybody was stunned. How could this possibly be? The prosecutor claimed Rabbi Nulander wanted so desperately out of his marriage that he hired a hitman to kill his wife so that he could continue his affair with his mistress, Elaine Sunsini. The prosecutor did not identify who the hitman was. When there's a murder and there's a husband, and as the police would very quickly discover, this was a very unfaithful husband, it's the husband who automatically becomes a suspect until vindicated. It's not as if the Jewish religion forbids divorce. There are plenty of divorced rabbis. Rabbi Nulander said that's why this theory did not make any sense. He again denied the charges, and his private detective, Len Genoff, defended him to reporters. I still believe that my client has had absolutely nothing to do with the horrendous murder of his wife. Len Jenoff defended the rabbi throughout his investigation. And while the rabbi awaited his trial, Len sort of became the rabbi's spokesperson. I think Len wanted to be a more important person than he was in life. Frank Hartman was Len Jenoff's attorney. That was a very, very important thing in Leonard Jenoff's life. The rabbi, whenever I saw him, he always wanted to talk to me about the rabbi. Len and the rabbi had a curious relationship. It was almost like father and son. And Len so desperately wanted the rabbi's approval and attention. He wanted to please the rabbi. He was very perturbed about the Fact that he had never been bar mitzvahed. The rabbi told him that that was not important. If it was really important to him, he'd have a private ceremony for him. And he encouraged the rabbi and encouraged him, which is how I think he ultimately became so dependent upon the rabbi. For the next 18 months, Len, the former FBI and CIA agent, continued his own investigation to help clear the rabbi. He even met with a local reporter to exchange notes and discuss the case. And she managed to worm her way into his confidence, mostly because she was trying to get information about the rabbi. In the spring of 2000, six, years after the murder, Len Genoff called this reporter with a scoop. They later met at a Jersey diner and were joined by two investigators working the case. Everyone went into this meeting not knowing what to expect. But picture this. Four people sitting in the back of a New Jersey diner, drinking coffee after coffee and chain smoking cigarettes, waiting to hear a scoop on an unsolved murder investigation. And what happened in the end was the absolute last thing anyone expected. Lenzenoff, the private investigator Rabbi Nulander hired to find his wife's killer, confessed to killing Carol Nulander. Len said he was paid $30,000 to kill Carol and the person who hired him to do it, Rabbi Fred Nulander. I think this murder weighed heavily on his conscience, and I think he wanted to unburden himself. Len did it for the rabbi. I don't know if there's any doubt about that. Len was completely under the sway of the Rabbi. Didn't shock me to find that he was willing to consider doing something as serious as murder. Len wanted to be important, and the rabbi's attention made him feel important. I think that whenever the rabbi made up his mind that he wanted someone to commit a murder for him, this was a person who was certainly among the nominees because the rabbi could exercise influence over him in so many different ways. The plan was for Len Genoff to kill Carol, but Len brought an accomplice. Len brought a friend along with him, a young man who was, I think, mentally challenged. Well, that young man was his roommate, Paul Michael Daniels, who suffered from drug addiction and schizophrenia. The young man struck her with a piece of pipe and said to him, you have to do this, too. It's not just me. So that's when Len actually struck a blow to the lady. And then they realized there were pursers there and that she had considerable money in it because it was the day's proceeds from her bakery shop. So to make it look like it was a robbery, they took the money and Left. So how did they even get into the house? Well, it turns out Carol opened the front door. Len Genoff had showed up at the house with an envelope for her husband. Jenolf was actually there to kill her, but he couldn't find her purse. And the plan was to make it look like a robbery gone wrong. So he pretended to use the bathroom and then he left. Two weeks later, he returned with his accomplice and claimed he killed Carol. They had a very good case against the rabbi and that he was in a lot of trouble. Even with Lenzenoff's confession, Rabbi Nulander denied being involved with the murder. The defense of the rabbi was that, oh, no, he did this on his own. He's only trying to incriminate me. But nevertheless, he did it. And generally speaking, in the law, the person who hires someone for murder is more culpable than the actual murderer. In the summer of 2000, Lenzenoff and his roommate guilty to aggravated manslaughter. And they made a deal with prosecutors to testify against the rabbi in exchange for a lighter sentence. This is the person who could really nail the case down and fill in the dots, as they say. Len Genoff would be the prosecution's star witness against Rabbi Nulander. The former CIA and FBI agent was about to embark on his toughest assignment yet. In the quiet town of Aella, Pennsylvania, Jared and Christy, Akron seem to have it all. A whirlwind romance, a new home, and twins on the way. What no one knew was that Christy was hiding a secret so shocking, it would tear their world apart. 911 response. What's your emergency? My babies. Please. My babies. One woman, two lives, and the truth more terrifying than anyone could imagine. They had her as one of the suspects, but they could never prove it. You're going to go to jail if you don't come with us right now. Throughout this whole thing, I kept telling myself, nobody's that crazy. Crazy. Uncover the chilling mystery that will leave you questioning everything. A story of the lengths we go to protect our darkest secrets. She went batshit crazy. Shot and killed all her farm animals, slaughtered them in front of the kids, Tried to burn her house down. Audio up presents the unborn on the iHeartRadio app app podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. We want to speak out, we want to raise awareness, and we want this to stop. Wow. Very powerful. I'm Ellie Flynn, and I'm an investigative journalist. When a group of models from the UK wanted my help, I went on a journey deep into the heart of the adult entertainment industry. I really wanted to be a Playboy model, lingerie topless. I said, yes, please, because at the center of this murky world is an alleged predator. You know who he is because of his pattern of behavior. He's just spinning the web for you to get trapped in it. He's everywhere and has been everywhere. It's so much worse and so much more widespread than I had anticipated. Together, we're going to expose him and the rotten industry he works in. It's not just me. We're an army in comparison to him. Listen to the bunny trap on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'm Maria Trumarki. And I'm Holly Frey. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime. Each season we explore a new theme. Everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them. We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a site submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact. We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective. And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. After years of denying he had anything to do with his wife's murder, a grand jury indicted Rabbi Fred Nulander for conspiracy to commit murder. Those charges grew to capital murder following the confession of his former private eye, Len Genoff. At the time he was facing the death penalty, Jeff Zucker was one of Rabbi Nulander's attorneys. You can't have any more pressure than that put on you. When the trial opened in late 2001, prosecutor James lynch told the jury that the adulterous rabbi wanted Carol murdered so he could continue to be with his mistress. This is a man overwhelmed by lust, greed, arrogance, and betrayal. And as a result of those qualities and those characteristics, he involved himself in the murder of his wife. He planned it, he plotted it. He paid money for it to be carried out. The rabbi's defense denied that motion. He could have gotten a divorce. It would be a huge jump from wanting to leave one's wife to becoming a murderer. Jurors first heard about the rabbis years of adultery. One congregant from Makur Shalom testified that she and the rabbi slept together for months. In fact, their affair overlapped with the rabbi's affair with Elaine Sunsini. Elaine Sunsini, she was a radio personality who had an affair with Rabbi Newlander. We started seeing each other, I would say, every two to three weeks in the beginning, and after that we saw each other just about every day. Elaine talked about her personal life on the radio, but that didn't compare to sharing those intimate details on the witness stand. We had relations in his office. He told me that I was the most special woman that he had ever met. The rabbi was certainly a smooth operator and manipulator. He shared a dream with Elaine about how violence was coming Carol's way. There was one conversation where he said to me that he just wished that she were gone. Poof, gone. I wish her car would go into the river. After months of being the other woman, Elaine decided in the summer of 1994 that she wanted more or no more. I said, fred, I don't want to see you after December. I want to start my new life January 1, 1995. And he would say, please, you know, hang in. Trust me. We're going to be together by your birthday. Elaine's birthday was in December, and Carol Newlander was murdered the month before. And what I said was, whatever you decide is fine. I support you 150%. Elaine and the rabbi slept together nearly every day, including the day Carol was murdered. That night, Elaine was asleep by 8pm and learned of Carol's murder. The following morning. He called me at work and he said that he was all right, that he was at the police station all night and that Carol had been killed and something about a burglary. And he just asked me if I was frightened and I said no. Frightened of what? And he said, are you frightened of anything? And I said, no. It was a strange conversation. Still, Elaine and the rabbi slept together a few more times after Carol's death until she asked him to stop contacting her. Instead, he sent her cards and letters. Some of those were used as evidence in the trial. Elaine, what you and I discovered and have comes once in a lifetime. It is a gift God permits so infrequently I need you to know that I will not Because I cannot love another of course I will always love you of course you will always love me I will pay any price Wait any time to keep my promise. The prosecution Argued that promise was that the two would be together. After Carol Newlander died. Fred said, I told you to trust me. When God closes a door, he opens a window. I was afraid that even though I chose to believe that Fred Nulander was not involved in the murder of his wife, that there was that possibility. I dishonored his wife in life and I was not going to dishonor her in death. The rabbi's defense team wasn't having any of that. They quickly fought back and tried to discredit her. And would you describe yourself, Ms. Sunsini, as the type of a woman who has low moral standards or who had low moral standards at that time? Looking back on it now, yes. And didn't you have very real concerns that you yourself may have been considered a suspect because you were the other woman? I was having a two year relationship with a married man and his wife was murdered. What were you afraid that Fred Newlander was going to kill you? I was afraid that Fred Nulander might kill me, as a matter of fact, because I didn't know what had occurred the night of the murder. And I didn't know where I was in this relationship. All I knew is, somehow I'm involved too. Then the defense went for it. They questioned how Elaine went from sleeping with the rabbi to marrying Cherry Hill police officer Larry Leaf. Isn't It a fact, Mrs. Leaf, that your now husband, Larry Leaf, was seen going through the fil of the Newlander investigation in the confines of the Cherry Hill Police Department? All Larry told me was that he wanted to read my statement to see if I was involved, if he was getting involved with a bad woman. After a full day's worth of testimony about the rabbi's adultery, the prosecution then moved on to the rabbi's plan to get rid of Carolina. And it started with someone named Pepi Levin. Pepi Levin was somebody that the rabbi used to play racquetball with. According to the testimony you're about to hear, A few months before Carol's murder, the rabbi approached him. He says, I wish I could get rid of my wife, have her killed on the ground when I go home someday. He says, do you know anybody? I said, get the out of my head, you crazy? I said, you're nuts. I said, you. I'm nuts. Stay away from it. You got a lovely wife. Stick with it. But the defense said that Pepe couldn't be trusted. He had a shady past that included time in federal prison for arson, conspiracy and tax fraud charges. He was a very colorful, strange, wild witness. But perhaps the Strangest, wildest, and most polarizing witness was the hitman who ultimately carried out Carol's murder. Len Genoff. He was the prosecution's star witness. Len Genoff was a private investigator, a person who claimed to have been in the CIA, but he absolutely had many problems. Many problems. Yeah. It turned out his biggest problem was his credibility. This is kind of mind blowing. After years of talking about his past, the defense learned that Len Genoff had never served in the CIA or the FBI. Len Genoff was a pathological liar. So was he telling the truth when he confessed to killing Carol? The prosecution star witness had a lot of explaining to do. And it would all happen on the witness stand in the quiet town of Avella, Pennsylvania. Jared and Christy, Akron seemed to have it all. A whirlwind romance, a new home, and twins on the way. What no one knew was that Christie was hiding a secret so shocking it would tear their world apart. 911 response. What's your emergency? My babies. Please. My babies. One woman, two lives, and the truth more terrifying than anyone could imagine. They had her as one of the suspects, but they could never prove it. You're going to go to jail if you don't come with us right now. Throughout this whole thing, I kept telling myself, nobody's that crazy. Crazy. Uncover the chilling mystery that will leave you questioning everything. A story of the lengths we go to protect our darkest secret. She went batshit crazy. Shot and killed all her farm animals. Slaughtered them in front of the kids. Tried to burn her house down. Audio presents the unborn on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We want to speak out, we want to raise awareness, and we want this to stop. Wow. Very powerful. I'm Ellie Flynn and I'm an investigative journalist. When a group of models from the UK wanted my help, I went on a journey deep into the heart of the adult entertainment industry. I really wanted to be a Playboy model, Lingerie topless. I said, yes, please, because at the center of this murky world is an alleged predator. You know who he is because of his pattern of behavior. He's just spinning the web for you to get trapped in it. He's everywhere and has been everywhere. It's so much worse and so much more widespread than I had anticipated. Together, we're going to expose him and the rotten industry he works in. It's not just me. We're an army in comparison to him. Listen to the bunny trap on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get Your Podcasts welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Trumarki. And I'm Holly Frey. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime. Each season we explore a new theme, everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them. We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact. We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective. And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Prosecutors portrayed Rabbi Fred Nulander as a womanizer who carried on multiple affairs and hired a hitman to kill his wife. It was the darkest day of my life, sir, but I took that man's promise of $30,000 that was from Fred J. Newlander, and I killed his wife for that promise. $30,000. That was Len Genoff's testimony. He and his roommate, Paul Michael Daniels, claimed to have murdered Carol Newlander on the evening of November 1, 1994. I pulled out the lead pipe, sir, and I whacked her in the back of the head. She started to stumble and I heard the word why. Why? Those details were painful to hear, especially for Carol's relatives, who you can hear crying in the background as Len Genoff described killing and then robbing Carol. Rabbi Newlander was adamant in telling me, only take the cash, whatever cash is in there. It could be $5, it could be 5,000, and throw the pocketbook away. Len Genoff says he did what he was told to do. He disposed of the handbag and murder weapon in a dumpster near the Cherry Hill Mall. Two days later, he had the audacity to attend Carol's memorial. That's where he saw the rabbi. And then he kind of pulled me in for a hug, patted me on the back, and he whispered, everything will be all right now. She's dead. Not only did Len Genoff attend Carol's funeral, but he returned to Rabbi Nulander's house a couple days later for the Shiva, the Jewish period of mourning. And he hands me this manila envelope stuffed with cash. And he said, here's another down payment. $7,000 in cash. The prosecution portrayed the rabbi as an arrogant and selfish adulterer who hired Len Genoff to kill his wife. But the defense said, Len Genoff cannot be trusted. Len Genoff was a person that we described as a pathological liar. Jeff Zucker was one of Rabbi Nulander's lawyers who untangled Len Genoff's long string of lies. We had so many things that we brought up to show that he had lied and lied and lied. It's true. Len admitted to lying about being in the FBI and CIA. In fact, most of his resume was one giant lie. Most damning. Len admitted to lying to the grand jury. Yes, I was trying to protect Rabbi Nulander and myself. The defense said the only reason Genoff was testifying against the rabbi was to get a lighter sentence. And that was a pretty good argument. He made a deal for himself, obviously, so that was part of the reason he was testifying. But Len Genoff said he didn't act alone. He paid his roommate, Paul Michael Daniels, to help carry out the murder. Did Mr. Genoff tell you that the money you got paid for the job came from Rabbi Newlander? Yes, he pled guilty to actually committing the murder. Paul Michael Daniels was just 20 years old at the time of Carol's murder. And like Jenoff, his time on the witness stand wasn't smooth. He couldn't remember a lot of what happened. He basically said he just went along, I think, with what Genoff told him to do. But he really had mental problems. Paul Michael Daniels was bipolar and suffered from schizophrenia and paranoia. Claims that Januff got him to go to the house to kill Carol Newlander. Now, if you were a juror listening to this crazy case, you probably wouldn't know who or what to believe at this point, which is why the decision to put Rabbi Nulander on the witness stand was so important. Rabbi Nulander was a tremendous orator when he spoke in the synagogue. He was the type of person who could really keep your attention and draw you in delivering a sermon. Well, that's one thing. A holy man answering questions about his numerous affairs and an open marriage is another. We made it decision that if there were needs that could not be supplied between the two of us, then we would go outside the marriage. His character was certainly called in question because of his infidelity. The prosecutor was right. I was selfish and arrogant, and I went beyond the bounds of marriage. And I betrayed Carol. I betrayed family. I betrayed community. I betrayed my synagogue. I Betrayed my profession. But divorce was never an issue. Now, as you got into the fall of 1994, in relation to Ms. Sonsini, did she make, if you recall, further references to the fact that she wished the affair to end? Yes. She, you know, repeated that at the end of the year she would have to create a new life for herself. Did you ever tell her to trust you, that something would happen? No. Did you ever say anything about anything happening so that you could be together with her on her birthday? No, I didn't. Did you ever say something to Ms. Sonsini, as expressed in her testimony concerning your wishes regarding Carol, which was, poof, Carol's gone? No. He also denied the conversation with his racquetball buddy, Pepe Levin, about wanting Carol dead. Never occurred. I. I wouldn't tell Pepe if I, you know, twisted my finger. He was not a confidant. He just knew who Carol was, and we had socialized, and that's all. As for Len Genoff, the rabbi said he never even hired him to investigate Carol's murder. It was Len who offered his services. Did you ever agree with Mr. Genoff that you wanted to have your wife killed and that you wanted him to do it for money? No. Did you ever want a divorce, ever, from your wife for Elaine Sonsini or any other woman? No. As you sit there today, sir, are you guilty or innocent? I'm innocent. Well, it wasn't surprising. The rabbi held his own while answering questions from his own lawyers. But things changed. During cross examination, the prosecution played sultry voicemails. The rabbi left Elaine Tonsini saying he truly loved her and needed her, which left the rabbi blushing. I simply wanted the relationship to continue. And I don't. I can't categorize why I said what I said. And if Len Genoff lied about his past, why didn't the rabbi do a better job vetting him? Didn't you want to get the very best person you could find to investigate the murder of your wife? Yes, I did. Was Leonard Genop the very best person you could find to do that investigation? I didn't know. How carefully did you look? How many investigators did you talk to in taking out Mr. Genoff? How many people did you go through together? I didn't investigate any other. Didn't talk to anybody else? No. But something else Fred Nulander did on the witness stand. Even bugged his own lawyer. What bothered me the most, when we questioned him or when the prosecutor questioned him about coming home and seeing his wife on the floor? Instead of describing his wife as Carol, he Said I saw the body on the floor. Hours after you found your wife, you referred to her as the body, correct? Correct. It just came across as, to me as being too cold. Here's something else that was cold. The rabbi found his wife bloodied and beaten in their home. And he didn't touch her, he didn't put her in his arms, he didn't comfort her. That's right. I stayed away. I saw her and I just. I couldn't deal with it. If a person comes in and sees their wife bloodied on the floor, my response, I would hope, would be to run over to my wife and hold her and see how she is. But there can't be a typical response to that, which is what we argue to the jury. Nobody could possibly know that unless they were put in that position. Okay, that's definitely true. But then came the question that had lingered from the night of his wife's murder. Why did Fred Nlander appear so aloof? All I can tell you is that I know how I grieve. I usually have an quiet, private, not quiet, a private experience of crying and then quickly gather it together. Then the rabbi talked himself into trouble. He first said he loved Elaine Suni and even wrote her a letter that said so. But the next day on the witness stand, he changed his testimony. Yes, I can say I didn't love her. Told the jury yesterday that you did love her. Correct. I never had any intention of continuing a relationship with her. I wanted to maintain whatever relationship we had. You weren't lying to this jury yesterday, were you, sir? I gave the wrong impression. I used the wrong words. He did not come across as a good witness. He did not come across as a credible witness. In my opinion, the key really was Jenoff. I was hoping for jurors that could see through Len Genoff because he was the cornerstone of their case. The defense knew that Len Genoff also didn't come across as honest. So they presented one final surprise witness. A man who knew Len Genoff from AA meetings. Now, the second word in AA is anonymous. So this witness broke the pledge of anonymity and testified that while incarcerated, Lenjenov was working on either a book or movie deal. But that deal wouldn't happen unless Rabbi Nulander was found guilty. So what's really going on here? Was Fred Nlander responsible for the death of his wife? This is a man of God who acted in a thoroughly ungodly fashion. Or was Rami Newlander's self reported hitman a liar trying to secure a movie deal? There's nothing real about this man. He's a liar. I'm Sloan Glass. The case against Fred Nulander is about to get a whole lot more complicated. I understand from your note that you have reached a verdict. Yes, we have. And we'll hear the surprising conclusion in part three of who Killed Carol. That's next time on American Homicide. You can contact the American Homicide team by emailing us@AmericanHomicidePodmail.com that's AmericanHomicidePodmail.com American Homicide is hosted and written by me, Sloan Glass and is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart podcast. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Todd Ganz. The series is also written and produced by Todd Ganz with additional writing by Ben Federman and Andrea Gunning. Our associate producer is Kristen Melcuri. Our I Heart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Kreunchak. Audio editing and mixing by Matt D'Alvecchio, Dave Saya and Britt Robicheaux. Additional editing support from Nicaruka, Tanner Robbins and Patrick Walsh. American Homicide's theme song was composed by Oliver Baines of Noiser Music Library, provided by MIB Music. Follow American Homicide on Apple Podcasts and please rate and review American Homicide. Your five star review goes a long way towards helping others find this show. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from. Audio up the creators of Stephen King Strawberry Spring Comes the Unborn. A shocking true story. My babies. Please. My babies. One woman, two lives and a secret she would kill to protect. She went crazy, shot and killed all her farm animals. Animals. Slaughtered them in front of the kids. Tried to burn their house out. Listen to the unborn on the iHeartRadio Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. We want to speak out and we want this to stop. Wow. Very powerful. I'm Ellie Flynn, an investigative journalist and this is my journey deep into the adult entertainment industry. I really wanted to be a Playboy model. He was like, I'll take you to the top. I'll make you a star. To expose an alleged predator and the rotten industry he works in. It's honestly so much worse than I had anticipated. We're an army in comparison to him. From Novel Listen to the Bunny trap on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Decisions Decisions, the podcast where boundaries are pushed and conversations get candid. Join your favorite hosts, Me, wezywtf and me Mandy B. As we dive deep, deep into the world of non traditional relationships and explore the often taboo topics surrounding dating, sex and love. Every Monday and Wednesday, we both invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. Tune in and join the conversation. Listen to Decisions Decisions on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.