What can joy survive?

In this conversation, Jeff Cook sits down with licensed trauma therapist and author KJ Ramsey to explore the surprising relationship between pain, joy, identity, and healing.

Drawing from her upcoming memoir The Place Between Our Pain, KJ shares how chronic illness, trauma, and the limits of control reshape our understanding of time, self, and what it means to be held. Together, Jeff and KJ examine the tension between despair and hope, the role of the Enneagram in personal growth, and the deep question beneath it all:

Can joy still exist when everything falls apart?

This episode moves through themes of:

Trauma and post-traumatic growth
The “true self” vs. personality
Chronic illness and the experience of time
Joy as presence, not performance
Agency, embodiment, and survival
Faith, meaning, and the limits of understanding

Whether you're navigating suffering, exploring the Enneagram, or asking deeper philosophical questions about identity and purpose—this conversation offers both honesty and hope.

📘 KJ Ramsey’s Book

The Place Between Our Pain: A Memoir of What Joy Can Survive

→ Pre-order & learn more: https://www.kjramsey.com

🌐 KJ Ramsey Website

→ https://www.kjramsey.com

🎙️ Around the Circle

The Enneagram publishing platform: Podcast • Books • Video • Ongoing formation

→ Join the community: https://www.aroundthecircle.org

→ Become a member: https://www.patreon.com/aroundthecircle

📅 Live Event (Colorado)

KJ Ramsey + Suzanne Stabile → April 17–18 : HERE

KJ Ramsey | Joy and Pain