What really drives families to make the dangerous journey to the United States? And what happens to them — especially their children — after surviving detention and family separation at the border?

In this episode, I speak with Dr. Gabrielle Oliveira, Jorge Paulo Lemann Associate Professor of Education and Brazil Studies at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. Gabrielle's new book, Now We Are Here: Family Migration, Children's Education, and Dreams for a Better Life, documents the lives of 16 families from Central and South America who experienced detention and separation at the US border in 2018 and 2019 — and how they rebuilt their lives afterward.

Gabrielle shares how she spent three years building deep, trust-based relationships with these families, and why that kind of research — done with people, not on them — matters so much. We explore the surprising role that the dream of an American education plays in the decision to migrate, why children process trauma so differently than adults, and what a truly equitable, child-centered classroom might look like.

We also discuss a quietly unforgettable moment: a first-grade morning meeting where two children, asked what they wanted for lunch, spontaneously connected over eating frozen burritos in an immigration detention center — and what that reveals about how trauma lives in children's bodies and memories.

Gabrielle's core message is both simple and urgent: what if we made policy — immigration policy, education policy — by putting all children first?

Now We Are Here is available at your local independent bookstore, on Amazon and Barnes & Noble, or directly from Stanford University Press. Find Gabrielle on Instagram and at gabrielleoliveira.com.

[00:00:12] Intro — "Do you believe art can change the world?"

[00:00:48] Pam introduces the topic — migrant family detention and separation at the border

[00:01:48] Introduction of Dr. Gabrielle Oliveira and her book Now We Are Here

[00:04:06] Interview begins — Gabrielle describes her book and the 16 families she documented

[00:05:14] Discussion of research methodology — doing research with people, not on them

[00:08:28] Gabrielle reflects on being an immigrant herself and how trust is built over time

[00:10:04] How the book idea originated and how the research focus evolved

[00:13:57] Education as a driving force behind migration — beyond just fleeing hardship

[00:15:12] Moving past the "suffering subject" narrative — immigrant families and the desire for an ordinary life

[00:19:20] How trauma affects three groups differently — parents, teachers, and children

[00:23:03] The fajita/burrito story — how a first-grade morning meeting unlocked detention memories

[00:28:19] How teachers respond to children's trauma — and why "that's in the past" doesn't work

[00:33:29] Imagining a more equitable, trauma-informed classroom

[00:38:24] The problem with over-structured early childhood education and the loss of play

[00:42:08] Gabrielle's wish list — what she hopes readers take away from the book

[00:45:43] Where to find the book and follow Gabrielle's work

[00:47:06] Pam's closing reflections and outro

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