272: Why Is My Teen Bombing Tests?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ask Lisa: The Psychology of Raising Tweens & Teens

Episode 272: Why Is My Teen Bombing Tests?
Host: Dr. Lisa Damour & Reena Ninan
Release Date: May 19, 2026

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Overview

This episode tackles a pressing and somewhat under-discussed issue for parents of tweens and teens—what is behind kids "bombing" tests, especially during the critical transition into high school? Dr. Lisa Damour and co-host Reena Ninan answer a listener's heartfelt letter about a hardworking, organized, well-liked 14-year-old boy who does well in every area of school except test-taking. Dr. Damour applies psychological insights and practical science-backed strategies, focusing on the difference between doing well in daily schoolwork and excelling on tests, and how to support teens in developing real study skills.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Transition to High School Testing

• Rena reads a listener letter describing a 14-year-old freshman who is successful in all areas of life except tests. The parent worries that this is a crucial missing link and asks for help ([01:23]).
• Dr. Lisa highlights the totally normal nature of this hiccup during the transition to high school:
  • In middle school, tests are often simpler or repetitive; high school raises the stakes and complexity ([03:07]–[05:03]).
  • Parents often overlook that being good at classwork and homework is not the same skill as being good at tests ([05:07]).

2. Ruling Out Executive Function Issues

• Dr. Lisa rules out executive functioning problems based on the teen’s organization and life skills (e.g., moving between two homes, organization in class) ([08:45]).
  • She explains:

    “Executive functioning... is like the air traffic control of running your life... working memory, cognitive flexibility, inhibitory control” ([08:45]).

• The problem, instead, is a lack of effective study and test-taking strategies.

3. The Science of Studying & Memory

• Dr. Lisa shares insights from cognitive psychologist Daniel Willingham ([10:25]):
  • Most students use the least effective methods to study—re-reading notes, highlighting, rewriting—all of which are “knee push-ups” ([13:09], [18:10]).
  • The effective approach is "retrieval practice":
    • Testing themselves on likely questions.
    • Writing out possible test questions and answers.
    • Practicing recalling information without notes ([13:13]).
  • Notable Analogy:

    “Going over your notes, highlighting... feels productive. But relative to really hard push-ups that are actually going to improve your skills, it’s not that productive. ...[You] got to be doing clap push-ups.” (Dr. Lisa, [18:33])

4. Gender Differences in Test Readiness

• Puberty and neurological growth’s impact on test-taking:
  • Girls typically reach the cognitive growth spurt earlier than boys, making ninth-grade readiness more uneven for boys ([06:41]).
  • Not all, but in general, ninth-grade girls may appear more “on top of it” in academics than their male counterparts.

5. How to Start the Conversation and Help Your Teen

a) Approach with Empathy, Not Critique

• Be your teen’s “ally, not... push up coach” ([19:35]).
• Use the formula:
  1. Acknowledge effort: “You want to do well on the tests, I can see this is frustrating for you.”
  2. State the reality: “What you’re doing isn’t working.” (A key line Dr. Lisa uses clinically, [21:59])
  3. Ask permission: “Do you want help with this?” ([25:20])
  • This can reveal other issues (e.g., not wanting to be at a particular school) or open a productive dialogue.

b) Who Should Help?

• Teens rarely want parents as their direct “study coaches”—it’s often too personal and interferes with their growing independence ([29:00], [29:18]).
• Instead, parents should help broker support:
  • Suggest resources (e.g., Daniel Willingham’s Outsmart Your Brain).
  • Connect with school supports (study skills programs, resource centers).
  • Suggest peer study groups or a non-parent adult guide ([31:26], [32:16]).

c) Study Skill Strategies to Teach or Encourage

• Encourage retrieval practice and self-testing.
• Consider scheduling methods, but be aware teens may accept these more readily from non-parent figures ([31:26]).
• Normalize the fact that test-taking requires learned skills—it is not “automatic” ([33:00]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why most students struggle with tests:

  “In general, not just boys, like kids across the board, usually study for tests in the least effective ways.” (Dr. Lisa, [12:02])

• On why just reading notes doesn’t work:

  “You have to actually test memory in order to make memories. You actually have to try to retrieve stuff when it’s not right in front of you.” (Dr. Lisa, [13:13])

• On approaching a struggling teen:

  “My favorite line that I use clinically is to say, ‘Well, but what you’re doing isn’t working.’” (Dr. Lisa, [21:59])

• On the importance of asking for buy-in:

  “Before orchestrating...elaborate support systems for kids... I would be like, ok, so we’ve ruled out this, this, and this. This seems to be within your power. Do you want help?” (Dr. Lisa, [25:22])

• Summary on supporting teens:

  “It’s not the same to be good at class as it is to be good at tests. We can talk openly with kids about that.” (Dr. Lisa, [33:00])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:23] Listener letter about test bombing
• [03:07] Why test struggles ramp up in high school
• [06:41] Gender, puberty, and cognitive development in test-taking
• [08:45] Ruling out executive functioning; defining executive skills
• [12:02] Introduction to the science of studying and memory
• [13:09] What most kids do to study (and why it fails)
• [14:31] Effective test prep: self-testing and retrieval practice
• [18:33] “Push-up” analogy for studying: knee vs. clap push-ups
• [19:35] How to open a conversation with a teen about changing study habits
• [21:59] “What you’re doing isn’t working”—how to use this phrase
• [25:22] The transformative question: “Do you want help?”
• [29:00] Why parents often should not serve as academic coaches
• [31:26] Suggesting resources and brokering external help
• [33:00] Big takeaway: class performance ≠ test performance
• [33:55] Parenting to go: Remove blame, normalize the challenge, offer hope

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Takeaways for Parents

1. Test struggles spike at the transition to high school, often due to new demands, not character flaws or executive dysfunction.
2. The most common ways students study are reassuring, but ineffective. Retrieval practice—forcing the brain to recall information without the cues of notes or texts—is proven to work.
3. Empathize, avoid blame, and offer help only if the teen wants it; consider letting another adult or resource serve as the study skills coach.
4. Support teens in building these essential yet often untaught skills by helping them connect with tools, supportive people, or science-backed techniques.
5. Normalize the learning curve: success in daily schoolwork does not mean a teen is automatically equipped for complex, cumulative tests.

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Resources Mentioned

• Daniel Willingham, Outsmart Your Brain (Book on science-backed studying)
• Additional recommended episodes and show notes (see podcast feed)

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Parenting To Go (Closing Message)

“Take any sense that kids should automatically know this out of the story... This is something you can fix... you’re not stuck or helpless.” (Dr. Lisa, [33:55])

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Transcript

[A]

Tell me a parenting issue everyone struggles with with tweens and teens, but no one talks about Rena.

[B]

I think a lot of people feel like they just don't know how to connect to their kid anymore.

[A]

I'm Rena Neinen and welcome to Ask Lisa the Psychology of Raising Tweens and teens.

[B]

And I'm Dr. Lisa Damore. We bring you science backed strategies for managing anxiety, discipline, intense emotions and more.

[A]

We decode tough parenting issues with tips you can use right now. So subscribe to Ask Lisa the Psychology of Raising Tweens and Teens and join our YouTube community. Today just Google Ask Lisa podcast.

[B]

We're here to help you untangle family life.

[A]

Episode 272 why is my teen bombing tests? So last week we talked about prom and this week we're talking about bombing tests. I was a horrible test taker, Lisa, as a student, well, test taking is

[B]

a skill unto itself and it's not one that we necessarily teach. And at this time of year when finals are coming around, suddenly everybody starts to feel panicked. The kids do, sometimes their folks do. About the fact that it's not clear that my student knows how to actually prepare adequately for tests.

[A]

Yeah. And I just wonder how many of us adults, if we had learned some study skill sets back in the day when they really weren't teaching this kind of thing, could that make us better in our work and life in general? Right, so we're going to dig into the science today and I can't wait because this is on so many parents minds because you make the transition from middle school to high school, high school to college. There's a lot there. I want to read you this letter, Lisa. Dear Dr. Lisa and Rena, my son, a 14 year old freshman in high school, is a great kid, has many friends, great social life, plays on the freshman basketball team. He's an organized kid at home, room is not messy, keeps his belongings together. He has two homes and does a great job remembering what he needs when he makes his transition to each house. In school, the teacher says he is well liked, shows up ready to learn, does his homework, participates appropriately, is respectful, but when it comes to taking tests, he bombs. I asked him how he's preparing and he gets frustrated and says he's got it. I try to offer suggestions and that backfires, but I can see he is struggling. It's as if he thinks if he does the classwork, homework, participates, etc. He should just do well on the tests. To me it seems as if he's walking in circles in his Head staring at the work and doesn't know how to study, doesn't know where to start. He wants to do well, though. If it was one subject, I'd just get him a tutor. But it's not that simple, I'm afraid. He's missing a critical part of problem solving or executive functioning that will alter his adult life. What can I do to help him? He has so many things going for him. This is the missing link. Help. Lisa, how common is this, especially when you make the transition to high school?

[B]

Okay, I'm going to answer that, but like, okay, just what a great letter. Like, I just want to take a minute. Like, I love what people send us. They are absolutely brilliant letters. And what I'm loving about this letter is the letter writer ruled out all sorts of things I would need to know. Right? Like is the kid disorganized elsewhere? Like, is the kid, you know, cutting up in class? Right. Like the letter writer did such a beautiful job of homing in on this. Like, it's the tests. Like this kid is falling apart on tests, which makes it really easy. That's not a simple problem. But she has effectively, I assume it's a mom. I don't know if it's a mom. The letter writers effectively ruled out all of the other things that we would go hunting for. Like the kid isn't paying attention or whatever. Like, I mean, it sounds like it's tests. Okay, so the question of, I love that this is a 14 year old boy transitioning to high school because I think this is really, really common when kids transition to high school suddenly. And you know this, you've got a ninth grader, the nature of schoolwork changes and suddenly there are finals. Right? And I'm thinking about families who are getting ready for finals right now. And you know, the family get ready for their kid to take finals, embracing for it. And the stakes go up on tests, you know, whereas in middle school, and this kid actually may have been fine in middle school, maybe the tests aren't that big a deal or they basically repeat things that the kid has already had drilled into them. The transition to high school does and should involve tests taking on new weight and tests becoming more complicated. Often it's tests asking students to work with material in new ways, to apply concepts in ways they haven't in class already. So it's not at all unusual to see kids who have been sort of chugging along just fine academically suddenly get to high school and have a big hiccup around their ability to take tests. Not that rare.

[A]

So what's your advice here? Because it seems like this kid is doing everything right.

[B]

Well, he may be doing school. He may be doing the day to day of school just fine. I want to throw in one caveat, just to think about together before drilling really into what is a kid supposed to do in these situations or what can a parent try to advise, which is sometimes when I have a family bring up a concern like this my way, they're like incredibly great student who's bombing tests. And then when I scrape away at it a little bit, the incredibly great student is getting as on the homework and A minuses or B pluses on the tests. And it may actually be perfectly fine, perfectly appropriate academically. So I'm going to take this letter at face value that this kid is doing really well academically. And then there's a huge gap between what he's accomplishing with his homework and what he's turning in on the test. Because I see that, I know that also happens, but I just want to throw in there. Bombing means different things to different people. And schools will tell you usually if they're worried about your kid. Schools are not usually worried about a kid who's strong on homework and then gets slightly lower points on tests. And I just want to think that through. So wait, would you ask me again? Tell me the question.

[A]

Well, I. Well, I want to drill into sort of what, what the parent does here. But I had a question about first. Boys versus girls when they're starting high school. Do you see any, any difference in gender here?

[B]

Statistically? We do. Like when we look at the data. And we do. And the reason being. Rena. Okay, so this kid is 14. One of the rules, and this is shifting in time and getting younger, especially for girls. The modal age of onset for girls of puberty. So the most frequent age at which girls hit puberty is 12. The modal age of onset for boys is 14. This is why 9th grade boys can be shaving and look like, you know, full grown adults or they can be, you know, they can look like middle schoolers and they can even look like young middle schoolers. Right. So you get this huge diversity in 9th grade boys that you don't see in 9th grade girls, you know, that you see some. But like most 9th grade girls have moved, you know, are well into puberty. Puberty comes with neurological growth, neurological growth that makes school different for kids. It lets them have more intellectual firepower. It lets them understand the consequences of their behaviors in a different kind of way. And so part of what we're up against is that there are plenty of especially 9th grade boys who just have not crossed that neurological threshold. And so they just aren't working with the same cognitive equipment as the average girl. Now, of course, kids are all over the map and there's like very immature girls and very mature boys. Like, it's not that. But on balance, if you like stopped a 9th grade teacher in the hall and were like, in general, who are your students who are on top of it know exactly what to do and who are less likely to be. They'll be like, oh yeah, the girls in general in the ninth grade more likely to be on top of it.

[A]

I think it was the end of last season. Yeah, it was the end of last season. Our season ender was a great one about how you were teaching. Like, you want the kid to unload the dishwasher, you need to show them they're not going to magically know. Just because you have been doing it for 30 years doesn't mean they have been, right? If they haven't. So what's the problem here? Is it about executive functioning? Where does this kid even begin to start?

[B]

Like, where are the wheels coming off here? Right? Yeah. Okay, so it's actually not executive functioning. And the reason I know that is there were several pieces of the letter. Like the room is organized. And actually the thing that I was like, okay, this kid is actually okay on executive functioning. And I'll drill into what executive functioning really is, is that he's got two homes and is moving back and forth between them and has the stuff he needs. And the teachers say he's on top of things in class. So. So executive functioning, the way we often talk about it, it's like the air traffic control of running your life. It's like having things organized and there's got lots of components, but like some of the big ones are like working memory. Right? And this kid is showing working memory like I am, which involves planning. So, like I'm going to be over at the other house, so I need to take this, this and this. Okay, so working memory is great. It involves cognitive flexibility, Right. Being able to change gears. Again, if a kid can move between two homes and knows what to bring and can do stuff, and even in class is able to do this assignment and then that assignment and doing fine on them, that's good. He's in good shape on that. And then another huge category that we talk about with executive functioning, and this one I can really struggle with is inhibitory control. So it's basically, you know how you're like, squirrel, right? Like, as soon as you're looking at one thing and then you remember, like, something else you were supposed to do. Like, I will interrupt myself constantly to, like, hop into my calendar or go to my to do list or make a call when I. I, like, really should have just stayed on the thing I was doing until I was done. So I actually don't think the issue here is executive functioning. But it's a good rule out, as we say, clinically. It's a good thing to be like, okay, it's not that okay. But then what is it? Okay, so here, my superhero, my academic superhero, and I'm going to draw on his work quite a bit, is this cognitive psychologist named Daniel Willingham. He's at uva. His work is gorgeous. Rena, this is a brilliant psychologist who has done beautiful, beautiful work on learning and memory, but then translates it so effectively for broad audiences. So he has several books. We'll put them in the show Notes. One is why don't students like school? And it really explains what it is on the education side that we could be doing differently. And there's another book that I was thinking about here called Outsmart yout Brain, and it's about how to study. It's about how to learn and study, and it's directed at students, and it's brilliant. Outsmart yout Brain is, I think, tipped a little more towards very light high school and then college learning. It's a lot about, you know, taking in lectures, things like that. But the piece that he talks about, and this is so essential, and I want to run it through us through it. Like, why do kids struggle with tests when they are strong students overall? He answers that question, and I'm going to share it. I want to separate that from what should this kid be doing, from how does the parent get him to do it? Right. Those are two different questions.

[A]

Good point.

[B]

But for starters, what should he be doing? Okay, so one of the things that we know about the science of studying is, is that in general, not just boys, like kids across the board, usually study for tests. The way they're most likely to study for tests are the least effective ways to study. Okay, so, Rena, do you remember how you studied? Like it was time for a test. What did you do?

[A]

Cramming, Memorization. A lot of memorization is what I remember.

[B]

Okay, memorization, like with flashcards, or memorization, like going over your materials. What were you doing?

[A]

Flashcards. I was a big flashcard person in Spanish and history. Yes. And then math, which was my worst subject. I just was doing worksheets over and over again to try to get the concept in.

[B]

Okay. So you actually lean towards what most students don't do. Most students do. They reread their notes. They reread the text. They may even rewrite their notes. They may highlight. Like, that's a lot of what kids do. They're like, I'm studying. I'm going over it all. I'm rewriting it all. I'm highlighting key passages.

[A]

Yeah. Because that kind of gets into your brain. You'd think, right. That's why they're doing it. No.

[B]

Well, you would think. That's the key word that you would think. So. What Willingham is so good at highlighting is you have to actually test memory in order to make memories. You actually have to try to retrieve stuff when it's not right in front of you. And that's why going over your notes doesn't do much. Because you're looking at your notes. Right. It doesn't get it into your head. Cause it's right there on the paper. And the things that really need to happen, and you did them. I bet there's a way, if you had had good coaching, you could have done them even more. The things that need to happen is actually students need to write the questions they think will be on the test, which is enormously hard to do because looking at your notes versus being asked to apply what you've learned to some novel concept. So they need to use past tests to be like, okay, what are the kinds of questions we get asked? They need to write those out on flashcards somewhere. And then they need to flip it over and they need to write the whole answer. And then they need to test themselves where they're looking at potential questions and as many as they can across as much of the material as possible. And then they have to try to generate it without looking at any of their notes. Right. It's the making your memory.

[A]

It's like create the flashcards or whatever that are potential questions. Run through them in your mind. That'll help seal the deal. It's a lot. I mean, that is a lot.

[B]

It's a lot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's why students don't do it. So spring has sprung in Cleveland, which is wonderful. Which means that we're going to soon spend more time outdoors in our backyard, which I love. Okay, here's what I do not love. All of the weeds in the flower beds in my backyard. Okay. Enter TaskRabbit. I love this service. So I got on the TaskRabbit app and I was able to search for someone to come take care of these weeds. I can search for Taskers for anything based on what they cost, what their skill sets are, their availability and and I love this. Reviews from past clients when life happens, your to do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first [e-mail] or on the TaskRabbit app using promo code ASKLISA. Taskers book up fast, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That's $15 off your first task using promo code AskLisa with the TaskRabbit app [e-mail] Friends, you know how much I care about having the guidance that we give families be grounded in research. We can't just be making this stuff up. This is why I can't recommend the podcast Screen Deep Enough. It's a Webby nominated podcast that aims to decode young brains and behavior in a digital world. Every episode dives into the latest research and insights on how digital media shapes child development from birth all the way through adolescence. And importantly, it translates that science into practical guidance for families. And they cover so many things from neuroscience to early childhood development to social media algorithms to AI to where smartphones fit into all of our lives. Screen Deep is a podcast that decodes young brains and behavior in a digital world, bringing the latest science and research to help families improve child health and well being. Search for the Screen Deep podcast wherever you get your podcasts or or go to childrenandscreens.org. And he has this terrific analogy. I think this is so brilliant. I was actually, my husband's a teacher. I was like, you have to listen to this analogy. It's so perfect. So what he described is the things that you're supposed to do. Like really like I'm going to sit here and think about what are all the questions the teacher could possibly ask on this material. And then I'm going to write those down and then I'm going to answer those questions and then I'm going to write that down and then I'm going to quiz myself until I've got it, you know, cold. It's like if you're like, I want to get better at push ups. And the equivalent to what I just described in test preparation is doing super hard pushups. Like push ups, you know, those where, like where you try to clap in between the push ups, right? Or you like put one arm behind Your back and you try to do the push ups. Okay. Like really, really hard. Who wants to do that?

[A]

I can do that. I mean, are you clapping between your push ups?

[B]

Is there something you haven't told me? No, no. But if I wanted to get better at pushups, right? That is what I would do. But instead what I do in the gym and what students do instead is I do the easier thing. That feels like something. So I'm like, you know what, I'm just going to bang out a bunch of push ups on my knees. You know how easy it is to do push up on. You know it's not that hard. Right? But it feels like.

[A]

Speak for yourself.

[B]

But okay, but you know what I

[A]

mean, I'm proud of my push feet.

[B]

Okay, but like what if you did them way past what you're, you know, like it's a matter of like it feels productive. But relative to really hard push ups that are actually going to improve your push up skills, it's actually not that productive. And so when students are going over their notes, highlighting the text, they're doing knee push ups, they're like, look, I'm studying, I'm studying.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Whereas what Willingham is saying is, no, no, no, you got to be doing clap push ups. You got to do one arm push ups even if it's hard. That's actually how you improve. And so this is unfortunately for students, this is settled science. Like no one is debating that the way to prepare for tests is to do the clap pushups. Now this gets to the second problem of like, but how do you convince a kid to do this? Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so I have a ninth grader, I have a ninth grader who so far is doing okay on tests. I have so much empathy for the parent who wrote this letter because if I rolled up on my kid saying, you know what you should do? You should sit there and come up with a whole bunch of cards about the kinds of questions that you think the teacher's gonna ask. And then you gotta write em. And then you know, if I'm like, you know what? Clap push ups going forward, she would like, she would actually roll on the floor laughing. Like she'd be like, not gonna work.

[A]

Yeah, not gonna do it. So what do you do then? How do we knowing the research behind it? What's like that? You always talk about half steps. Like what is that half step we as parents can take to move them in the right direction to get those study skills?

[B]

So there's two assets in this letter that I think the family has to work with. The best asset is, I think the letter said is like, he wants to do well, right? This is a kid who already cares, right? So that gets you to the 10 yard line, right? I mean, if the kid. We're like, yeah, I'm bombing test and I don't care. Okay, now you have a whole other set of problems. And we've actually done episodes on that, right. Like when my kid doesn't care about school and can I bribe him and all of that. Okay, so the kid cares. So. Oh, thank goodness. Because this makes it a lot easier. The other is, and he's doing badly, right? So if he cared and were doing well, there's no problem. If he were doing badly and didn't care, you've got a big problem. You have a kid who says he cares, but he's actually doing poorly. And there was something in the letter that I thought was so lovely where the parent says, like, he says he's got it, he says he's got it. And yet I'm looking at him struggle and clearly from the grades, he doesn't have it. So here I think that there's a couple of ways that parents could walk up to this that actually stand a chance. So the first is starting from the kid's own desire to do well. Right. Rather than have it be like, what's going on? You should be getting better grades on your test. Right. You're already down a road of the kid being like, why are you on my case? I'm trying, leave me alone. Right? Like, it's just not going to work. So I think that the first overture is to say, hey, buddy, you want to be doing well on the tests. Like, I see that and I see this is frustrating for you. So you're his ally, not his, you know, push up coach. And then when the kid's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. My favorite line that I use clinically is to say, well, but what you're doing isn't working. I say that all the time. And that works, what you're doing.

[A]

It does.

[B]

Because it's short. Right. And one of the things that I've had happen clinically over the years is that families come in and they've got a challenge, which is why they're even meeting with me. And they'll describe at length what they're trying and they'll describe what they're onto now that's they're trying because the other things haven't worked. And they'll describe whatever it is, like grounding the kid or sticker charts or whatever, and when it's not working, they'll do more of it. And so I've often said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I see how hard everybody is working to try to fix this, but what you're doing isn't working. And then what's an easy follow on is, so you have to try something else, or we're going to have to try something else. So that's where I would go as an opening. Okay, so you also have a ninth grader. Does this feel promising to you as the parent of a real life 9th grader?

[A]

Yeah, I think being able to explain what works. So it's not trial and error. Right. That that helps. And saying there is science. People have studied this. Here's what works. But I feel like what I'm missing is how do I get him to change how he studies?

[B]

Okay. You're bringing to mind something that I think we often blow past that I have found to be absolutely essential. Okay. So if the opening of the conversation is like, kiddo, you want to do well, we know it and we know it's bugging you that you're not doing as well on the tests as you have in the past or, you know, want to do, and we hear that you feel like you're on top of it, but clearly what you're doing isn't working. The next question to ask is, do you want help with this? And I'll tell you, Reena, I learned this the hard way. For 20 years, I consulted to a school in my community and a terrific girls school. And, you know, over 20 years, you come across girls who are. It was a girls school who are falling apart academically, you know, for any variety of reasons. And you, you know, you rule out all the things you got to rule out, like, is there a learning disorder? Is there an attentional disorder? Like, you take care of all of those things, and then sometimes you get to where like, no, no, the kid can do the work, kid's just not doing the work. Or, you know, the interferences are largely within the kid, and they're things the kid could control. So one of the things we would do at this school, because it was a, you know, resour, and we had a lot of families that could bring a lot of resources to bear. We would create these wildly supportive structures. We'd get tutors, we'd get special study halls. We get all these things, and we'd wrap them all around the kid. And sometimes the kid would just continue to sink and sink and sink. Yeah. And sometimes it was like they didn't want to even go to that school. Right. Sometimes they were trying to leave. And so before orchestrating with the fabulous team at that school, before orchestrating these elaborate support systems for kids, which I came to think of as, like, sometimes I think of these kids like black holes. Like, if they did not want the help, they would just suck all of those resources in and would just disappear. And so sometimes, like, when we were having these kind of, like, pretty intense conversations with the kids, I would be like, okay, so we've ruled out this, this, and this. This seems to be within your power. Do you want help?

[A]

Do you want help?

[B]

Do you want help? And it was like a transformational question, because sometimes the kids would be like, no, I don't want to go to school here. You're like, I'm sorry.

[A]

So it comes out, and, you know, there's a problem to deal with. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Right. And, like, there's resources that this kid is a waste of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then what was nice is, you know, usually the kid would be like, actually, I do. And now you are in a completely different conversation because you are siding with the part of the kid that wants to fix this. Friends, you know that the goal of this show is to equip the adults around kids with the tools they need to help young people thrive. Parents do this. Caregivers do this. And a key part of this equation are teachers. But many schools, as you know, lack the resources they need to make sure that kids can reach their full potential. This is why I am so excited that we have partnered with DonorsChoose. DonorsChoose is a national nonprofit that makes it easy for anyone to donate directly to a classroom. You can give any amount, and once a teacher's request has met its fundraising goal, DonorsChoose purchases the supplies and sends them directly to that classroom. For a limited time, your gift will be matched to help students and teachers who need our Support. Go to donorschoose.org askLisa all one word. To find a classroom near you and have your gift matched today. Donorschoose.org AskLisa

[A]

well, this is embarrassing. I am tired of seeing the clumps of hair in my shower drain every time I get out. And that's why I decided to take matters into my own hands. And I started using the Irestore red light helmet. It's the most advanced laser hair growth using 300 lasers and 200 LEDs to really help regrow thicker, healthier hair in

[B]

as little as three months.

[A]

I'm just in the process of trying it. And I love that it makes me slow down. You just wear it while you're working, reading, or unwinding at night. I love the unwinding part. Irestore is offering some huge discounts on their red light therapy devices. Right now you can save on customer favorites like the Irestore Elite helmet and also the Elite Lumina face mask. All you've got to do is go to irestore.com and use the code ask Lisa. That's [e-mail] Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Give your hair and skin the upgrade it deserves so you can feel confident and refreshed.

[B]

Okay, so let's like lay out the steps because I love this problem. It's so focal and it's so fixable. But you gotta go at it, right? Yeah.

[A]

And as a parent, I feel so overwhelmed and don't know where to start.

[B]

So walk us through. Okay, good. All right. So here we are. So we're doing step by step. And of course, like, all very easy in theory as I lay it out on the podcast. But like, I get it. Real life is not always so easy. But step number one is you want. You say you want to do well. Step number two is what you're doing isn't working. Step number three. Do you want help with this? Let's presume this is a kid who's going to say yes because he does seem to care about school. And then step number four is, okay, who does the helping. So one of the real challenges, by the time a kid is in high school, they don't usually want their parents acting in the role of tutors or coaches. Like that is inherently annoying to them.

[A]

Or basketball coach, but yes, go on.

[B]

Exactly, exactly, exactly. You're one of my friends, used to

[A]

be able to help and rebound, but that doesn't work anymore. Yes, with prosper.

[B]

Exactly. Like. And it's like nails on a chalkboard to them.

[A]

That's right. That's right.

[B]

Even if the advice is great. Even if two years ago your kid took it happily in the normal course of development and individuation is what's going on. Kids wish to be separate, to have their however knowledgeable parents in there working with them on something that is very personal and very deep to them and is so bothersome. And I actually, I talked about this in Untangled. I cared for a family. I love this so much. So we have the Cleveland Clinic. Right. We have a phenomenal, phenomenal medical center here with genius doctors. I Cared for a family where the mother was a radiologist at the Cleveland Clinic and her daughter had a sprained something in her ankle. And the daughter was like, you cannot look at it. You cannot. Like, she refused to let her mother who was like, really super. Yeah, because like she was a 14 year old and it was like, I can't have you intruding with your, you know, so called medical knowledge.

[A]

That's so interesting that even the expert didn't get to weigh in. The expert, Mom?

[B]

No, not at all. Exactly. So, okay, so that's what we're working with. So I think then, I think, I think that families should have this book, this, you know, outsmart your brain book. I think that might be a place to start to say, look, one option, here's a really clever book. I've heard good things about it. If you want to read it and try to see if you can apply what it's in there, that's one option. Another is, is there someone at school who could work with you on study skills? Is there an online course you could take? I didn't actually look at this, but like, you know, Khan Academy has all sorts of really cool courses and I wouldn't be surprised if Khan Academy or something like it had a how to really study for tests. So I think that the job of the adult in this, of the parent is unfortunately probably not to transmit something that they have learned and they're excited about and they want the kid to know, but to probably broker connecting the kid who has said, yes, I want help with good help. I think that's the next step.

[A]

So it sounds like once, you know, they do want help to sort of figure out how to get them to rethink studying. Great tips in this book that you mentioned. But also looking online to see, you know, one of the things I had suggested for my son who was in ninth grade is something I started doing with my work actually is block scheduling, which is on Mondays I'm focused on this project. On Wednesdays I'm focused on this subject. I don't want to work on the weekends, but Sunday morning I've got to block X amount of time to study and get the reading for this thing done. Does that work with teens in teaching them study methods like that?

[B]

I think, you know, yeah, right. And was he receptive? Did he take it in? Did that work for him?

[A]

No, no, no. There is no evidence that he took any of this in for all of the reasons you stated earlier in the podcast.

[B]

Okay, that's all right. That's all right. They don't always gratify us by doing what we ask. But I think that that's where, you know, it's interesting, Reno. And I think clinically, I think so often in my practice, I have been saying to my adolescent patients the same thing their parents have been saying, but coming from me, the kid will hear it, but not from the parent. Right. So I think that. That, you know, if you've got a super good idea, maybe get the, like, really cool cousin to tell your kid to try it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

As opposed to being the messenger on those things.

[A]

Yeah, no, that's really great advice because I find sometimes other kids, his peers have been a great influence on helping to learn, you know, study groups that, you know, he's sought out himself, which I love. So, Lisa, to sort of sum it up, what. What do you want to leave parents with that they need to know that

[B]

it's not the same to be good at class as it is to be good at tests. And we can talk openly with kids about that. And sometimes it comes at them fast. Right? Sometimes it comes at em fast. They've been doing fine. And then suddenly the nature of things changes and the kid doesn't know what's wrong. And we can kind of give them a heads up like, oh, yeah, studying for tests in high school is a completely different ball game. You can learn how to do it.

[A]

I wish I'd had this conversation with you a year ago before we entered high school, because I. I'm realizing, much like the topics we always discuss. I know I say this often on the podcast, it's about having that conversation and midterms and finals. It was never a thought in my mind to have that conversation because I trucked through it and I figured it out. So surely they're going to truck through it and figure it out. And it's painful, you know, when it is, it's difficult for them.

[B]

Yeah, it is. Absolutely.

[A]

So what do you have for us, Lisa, for parenting to go?

[B]

I like where we just were around taking any sense that the kids should somehow automatically know this out of the story. Right. That I think that if you can say, oh, yes, it's very different to do high school tests than middle school tests. And sometimes that's made clear and sometimes it's not, but it's not about you. And this is something you can fix. And I think anytime we can take away any sense of blame or shortcoming and also offer this sense of, like, this is workable, you can fix this. It is frustrating, but you don't you're not stuck or helpless. I think that can push away a lot of the barriers that are sometimes in place to moving in the right direction.

[A]

It's so important to get those barriers removed because it can just weigh on you as a high school student and you can get so down on yourself so easy when it comes to academics. So love this advice and grateful for it.

[B]

Thank you, Lisa, you, Beth and I

[A]

just want to say the author, Lisa, talked about Daniel Willingham as well as other episodes that might help your student study and get organized. We'll have all of those in the show notes, so be sure to check them out. I'll see you next week.

[B]

I'll see you next week.

[A]

Thanks for joining us. Be sure to subscribe to the Ask Lisa podcast so you get the episodes just as soon as they drop, and send us your questions to ask Lisa. Drlisadamore.com and now a word from our lawyers. The advice provided on this podcast does not constitute or serve as a substitute for professional psychological treatment, therapy or other types of professional advice or intervention. If you have concerns about your child's well being, consult a physician or mental health professional. If you're looking for additional resources, check out Lisa's [e-mail].