Ask Lisa: The Psychology of Raising Tweens & Teens

Episode 72: How Do We Talk to Kids About Justice? Advice from Preet Bharara
Released: March 15, 2022
Host: Dr. Lisa Damour & Reena Ninan | Guest: Preet Bharara

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Lisa Damour and Reena Ninan welcome Preet Bharara—former U.S. Attorney, children’s author, and host of the podcast “Stay Tuned”—to explore how parents can talk to their kids about justice, fairness, and civic courage. Given current world events, the trio discusses making sense of issues like the war in Ukraine, presents practical guidance and real-life stories, and reflects on children’s innate sense of fairness. Bharara shares insights from his new children’s book, Justice: A Guide for Young Truth Seekers, and Dr. Damour weighs in on fostering empathy and resilience.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Why a Children’s Book About Justice?

• Origins of the book:
  • After writing an adult book on justice (Doing Justice), Preet’s publisher approached him to write a children’s version. He realized how early children grasp fairness.
  • “You see kids playing a game. They know right away if someone's cheating, they scream not fair, you know, right off the bat. And so I think it's never too early to introduce these concepts to young people.” (Preet, 03:26)
• Book features:
  • Profiles real-life, diverse heroes (Lincoln, Douglass, Gandhi, Malala) rather than superheroes—these are “helpers” who practiced courage and morality in the real world.

Introducing Kids to Serious Topics (Ukraine, Historical Injustices)

• The “helpers” narrative:
  • The book serves as a “jumping off point” for parents to introduce their children to courageous individuals who confronted injustice.
  • Reena references Fred Rogers’ advice: “Tell children to look for the helpers. And you've given us a book of helpers.” (Reena, 06:18)
• Balance the dark and the light:
  • Preet argues we can’t sanitize history—understanding the heroism of Lincoln or Gandhi requires knowing the context of slavery or colonialism.
  • “You don't only talk about the bad. You talk about the courageousness…whenever anything bad happens...emphasize the heroes who rise to the moment.” (Preet, 08:36)
  • Example: Parkland shooting survivors’ advocacy (08:48).

Lessons from Parenting as an Immigrant

• On national pride and civic duty:
  • Preet emphasizes gratitude and public service in response to having benefited from immigration.
  • “I owe a lot to America....I love the United States of America. And I say that unabashedly all the time.” (Preet, 09:22)
  • He encourages his children to be engaged citizens and maintain connection to a multi-religious, multi-ethnic heritage.

Kids’ Moral and Cognitive Abilities

• Children and moral clarity:
  • Dr. Lisa: Six-year-olds have a strong sense of right and wrong—sometimes rigidly so; teenagers have “X-ray vision for people's souls.”
  • “Teenagers can see right through situations and right through...you can BS a grown-up or a little kid, but you can't pull the wool over the eyes of a teenager.” (Dr. Lisa, 12:27)
  • Kids hold parents accountable for inclusivity and values.
  • “My kids hold my feet to the fire…” (Dr. Lisa, 13:16)

Empathy, Self-possession, and Resisting Groupthink

• What prevents corruption?
  • Preet cites Michael Lewis: “The quality of being self-possessed...comfort with your own morality...those people resist the mob better than others.” (Preet, 17:15)
  • Dr. Lisa adds: empathy is equally protective—“When we cultivate empathy, all good things happen.” (20:07)
• Why do people get caught in bad movements?
  • Dr. Lisa: “Something about that movement is telling them a story that helps them make sense of their world...is meeting a need for that person.” (20:07)
  • The question is not only about villains, but also about “masses of generally decent people who just go along.” (Preet, 19:02)

COVID Silver Linings: Family Connection and Guilt

• Family dinners and small joys:
  • Preet describes 105 consecutive family dinners during the pandemic as a unique gift:
  • “We had 105 dinners. I count 105 consecutive dinners...On those dinners in a very fond way. Should I feel guilty about that?” (Preet, 22:58)
  • Dr. Lisa: Savor the positive—it enables resilience amid challenge.

The National Conversation on Mental Health

• Systemic gaps:
  • Preet highlights the high rate (43%) of mental health issues among young people at Rikers Island; emphasizes urgency for mental health parity and insurance coverage.
  • “A lot of crime and a lot of social issues...come back to the lack of provision of mental health services...some of these issues...are potentially ruinous mental health issues that are just not being treated at all.” (Preet, 26:45)
• Dr. Lisa: Increased openness about mental health and political momentum are positive outcomes from the pandemic.

Helping Kids Understand Justice—and Injustice

• Teaching through stories and outrage:
  • Preet: Children’s first sense may be of outrage at injustice, which leads to understanding justice.
  • “Sometimes first the sense of injustice…maybe it's the latter. The way I think parents might explain these issues is there was a wrong happening...what would be justice? Well, the elimination of that practice.” (Preet, 29:05)
• Parental guidance—building inner strength:
  • “You belong to yourself before you belong to anyone else.” (Preet, 31:44)
  • Dr. Lisa echoes the need to help kids develop a strong sense of self-worth to resist group pressure.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You see kids playing a game. They know right away if someone's cheating—they scream ‘not fair’…so I think it's never too early to introduce these concepts to young people.”
  —Preet Bharara (03:26)

• “Why not have a book filled with pictures of actual heroes…who don't have superpowers other than their own spine and moral compass?”
  —Preet Bharara (04:13)

• “Tell children to look for the helpers. And you've given us a book of helpers.”
  —Dr. Lisa Damour (06:18)

• “Teenagers have, I think, X-ray vision for people’s souls...you can't pull the wool over the eyes of a teenager.”
  —Dr. Lisa Damour (12:27)

• “What prevents ordinary people from going along with wrongdoing? Self-possession…but equally, empathy.”
  —Preet Bharara (17:15) / Dr. Lisa Damour (18:11)

• “You belong to yourself before you belong to anyone else.”
  —Preet Bharara (31:44)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:06] - Why Preet wrote a children’s book on justice
• [05:47] - Addressing world crises (Ukraine) and response of helpers
• [09:17] - Parenting as an immigrant and instilling civic duty
• [12:14] - Children’s capacity for understanding complexity
• [13:25] - Parental accountability and learning from children
• [16:49] - What protects people from wrongdoing—self-possession and empathy
• [22:18] - Family life during COVID: finding connection
• [25:03] - Mental health crisis, government efforts, and needed reforms
• [28:37] - How the book helps kids connect with justice, injustice, and heroes
• [31:28] - Final advice: fostering strong sense of self in kids

Actionable Takeaways for Parents

• Introduce concepts of justice and fairness early—kids are naturally attuned to them, even at preschool age.
• Use real stories of helpers and heroes to anchor conversations, especially in the context of troubling current events.
• Don’t shy away from discussing the darker parts of history; justice is best understood by knowing what was at stake.
• Encourage empathy and self-possession in children as protective factors against negative influences and groupthink.
• Use opportunities (family dinners, current events) to model and talk about civic engagement, resilience, and moral courage.
• Support open conversations about mental health and advocate for access to care.

Closing Parenting Advice (Parenting to Go)

• Dr. Lisa:
  • “Whatever else happens, you have to feel alright with yourself. Don’t do anything that you’re not going to be able to feel comfortable with or that’s going to keep you up at night. I think that’s a way we can continue to drive home the message about what it means to do the right thing.” (34:02)

For more resources, see Dr. Lisa Damour’s website and Preet Bharara’s new children’s book, "Justice: A Guide for Young Truth Seekers."