BONUS Episode: How Do I Talk With My Teen About Fentanyl?

Summary

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BONUS Episode: How Do I Talk With My Teen About Fentanyl?

Ask Lisa: The Psychology of Raising Tweens & Teens
Date: April 29, 2026
Hosts: Dr. Lisa Damour & Reena Ninan
Guests: Ed Ternan and Marsha Lee Taylor, Song for Charlie

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Episode Overview

This critical bonus episode of "Ask Lisa" tackles the urgent topic of fentanyl risks among young people. In recognition of National Fentanyl Awareness Day, Dr. Lisa Damour and Reena Ninan revisit a profound conversation with Ed Ternan—whose son Charlie died from fentanyl poisoning—and Marsha Lee Taylor, a veteran drug policy expert. Their nonprofit, Song for Charlie, is dedicated to arming families with information, practical strategies, and hope to safeguard teens and tweens from the escalating dangers of synthetic opioids in the illicit drug supply.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The New Drug Landscape (04:05–05:39)

• Fentanyl as a Game Changer:
  Ed Ternan emphasizes the dramatic change in the drug market in recent years:

  “There’s been a seismic shift... traffickers are using chemicals instead of plant-based materials. Fentanyl is a very potent opioid and has been pressed into counterfeit pills that mimic familiar prescription meds like Xanax or Percocet.” (04:05, Ed Ternan)

• Counterfeit Pills—An Invisible Risk:
  Many young people self-medicate, seeking what appear to be legitimate pills from unofficial sources, only to encounter deadly fentanyl-laced pills.

Why the "Just Say No" Era No Longer Applies (05:19–07:23)

• No Margin for Error:
  Marsha Lee Taylor contrasts the 1980s with the present:

  “Unlike when we were growing up, there’s absolutely no margin for error. Fentanyl is in fake pills and powders like cocaine, methamphetamine, and heroin. Kids need to understand those can be deadly.” (05:39, Marsha Lee Taylor)

• Beyond Slogans—A Holistic Approach:
  The conversation around drugs must include mental health and stress coping skills—not just abstinence.

Overdose Deaths vs. Drug Use Statistics (07:23–07:56)

• A Startling Paradox:

  “Drug use is actually dropping among teenagers, but overdose deaths are skyrocketing.” (07:23, Dr. Lisa Damour)
  The current crisis is driven by deception and contamination, not increased use.

Who Is At Risk? (07:56–09:10)

• Equal-Opportunity Risk:

  “No one is immune... one mistake, one impulsive decision.” (07:56, Ed Ternan)
  The deceptive nature of the crisis means every teen, regardless of background, is vulnerable.

Economics of the Illicit Drug Market (09:10–10:52)

• Why Dealers Don’t Care About Overdoses:

  “The goal is to get people addicted... dosing is imprecise. Sometimes two people split a pill—one lives, one dies.” (09:33, Marsha Lee Taylor)
  Addiction—rather than consumer safety—is the business model.

Why Parents Must Talk About Fentanyl (11:01–12:33)

• Starting the Conversation:
  Ed Ternan urges ongoing, open dialogue:

  “We’ve gone from just say no to just say nothing... Getting the conversation started in a welcoming and curious way is a real protective factor.” (11:01, Ed Ternan)

• Kids Underestimate Fentanyl’s Dangers:
  Many don't realize fentanyl is deadlier than drugs they've been warned about.

How & When Teens Encounter Fentanyl (14:46–15:59)

• It’s Not Always 'Party Drugs':
  Teens may encounter fentanyl through seemingly harmless self-medication, not just at parties.
• Normalize Learning Together:

  “Say: I’m concerned... What are you hearing? Let’s learn about this together.” (14:54, Ed Ternan)

How to Structure the Conversation (16:21–17:41)

• Refusal Skills and Practical Tools:
  • Practice what to say in tough situations.
  • Give your child an “out”:

    “I always say, blame me... text me if you need to get out of a situation.” (16:21, Marsha Lee Taylor)

• Narcan/Naloxone in the Home:

  “Every parent needs to have this... It can really be the difference between life and death.” (16:21, Marsha Lee Taylor)

Destigmatizing Narcan (17:41–19:09)

• Over-the-Counter Access:
  • Naloxone is now FDA-approved for OTC purchase.
  • Many community programs provide it free if cost is a barrier.
• College Transition Example:

  “It was a very uncomfortable conversation... but it also felt absolutely essential.” (18:12, Dr. Lisa Damour)

Framing the Message for Teens (20:20–22:18)

• Empower, Don’t Scare:
  • Make it about keeping friends safe and being informed.
  • Ed’s analogy:

    “There’s no chicken in a nugget, there’s no Xanax on Snapchat.” (20:20, Ed Ternan)

  • “Team Hope”—communicate that knowledge can help them protect themselves and others.

Communication Do’s and Don’ts (22:18–24:35)

• Do:
  • Stay non-judgmental
  • Repeat the conversation often; teens “tune out” and change rapidly.
  • Be developmentally appropriate.
• Don’t:
  • “Don’t approach the conversation from a place of judgment… Kids need to feel you’ll support them, not condemn them.” (22:44, Marsha Lee Taylor)
  • “Don’t check the box and walk away. Keep revisiting the topic.” (24:02, Marsha Lee Taylor)

Preparing for Emergency Situations (25:14–27:38)

• If an Overdose Occurs:
  • Call 911.
  • Use Narcan if available; it can’t harm someone who isn’t overdosing.
  • Good Samaritan laws protect callers from prosecution for seeking emergency help:

    “First responders will shake your hand and say, you did the right thing.” (25:14, Ed Ternan)

  • “If someone is not overdosing and you use Narcan on them, nothing bad is going to happen.” (27:00, Marsha Lee Taylor)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I don’t know that I’ve ever been as frightened of anything as I am of fentanyl.” — Dr. Lisa Damour (03:43)
• “We spell it K-N-O-W… young people are dying from a lack of information.” — Ed Ternan (07:56)
• “Just by getting the conversation started in the family room, around the kitchen table… that’ll be a real protective factor.” — Ed Ternan (11:01)
• “There's no Xanax on Snapchat.” — Ed Ternan (20:20)
• “One of the top reasons why kids don’t talk to their parents about substances is fear of judgment.” — Marsha Lee Taylor (22:44)
• “You cannot check the box. The drug talk is not a one-and-done conversation.” — Dr. Lisa Damour / Marsha Lee Taylor (24:35)
• “I left for college with a TV/VCR combo. Hearing Narcan is the one thing—just shows how times have changed.” — Reena Ninan (28:22)

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Key Action Steps and Resources (Segment timestamps vary)

• Normalize ongoing, two-way conversations about drugs and mental health.
• Practice refusal skills and give kids “outs” (e.g., blame the parent or text for help).
• Obtain Narcan/Naloxone—keep it on hand as part of your family’s first aid kit.
• Utilize resources:
  • Song for Charlie: www.songforcharlie.org
  • The New Drug Talk (comprehensive advice tailored to different age groups).
• Don’t wait for a crisis—talk about this before your child’s environment or friend group shifts.

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Final Takeaways

• Fentanyl’s widespread presence in counterfeit pills and other substances means no teen is immune—this is not about "bad kids" or "party drugs."
• The best prevention is a continuing, considerate, developmentally appropriate conversation—not judgment or fear.
• Fentanyl risk is about misinformation and lack of awareness, not willful risk-taking.
• Narcan saves lives and is a tool every parent and household can/should have.
• Change the family culture: model and encourage healthy coping skills—wellness, exercise, healthy relationships—instead of a “pill for every ill” mentality.

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Parenting To Go (32:51–33:19)

Dr. Lisa’s guidance:

“Don’t lead with confrontation or surprise. Give kids context—say: ‘This is something happening out in the world, and I want us to learn about it together.’ That keeps the lines of communication open.”

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Resource Links:

• Song for Charlie
• The New Drug Talk

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For Further Support:
If you have concerns about your child’s well-being, consult a physician or mental health professional.

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This episode is essential listening for any parent of tweens and teens navigating today’s high-risk, high-deception drug environment. The practical, non-alarmist advice—empower, educate, repeat—can literally save lives.

Transcript

[A]

Tell me a parenting issue everyone struggles with with tweens and teens, but no one talks about Rena.

[B]

I think a lot of people feel like they just don't know how to connect to their kid anymore.

[A]

I'm Rena Neinen and welcome to Ask the Psychology of Raising Tweens and teens.

[B]

And I'm Dr. Lisa Damore. We bring you science backed strategies for managing anxiety, discipline, intense emotions and more.

[A]

We decode tough parenting issues with tips you you can use right now. So subscribe to Ask the Psychology of Raising Tweens and Teens and join our YouTube community. Today just Google Ask Lisa Podcast.

[B]

We're here to help you untangle family life. Friends, Today is national Fentanyl Awareness Day, so we're going to run an extra episode of the Ask Lisa podcast this week. This episode is called how do I Talk with my Teen about Fentanyl? And it's a conversation that Rena and I had a couple of years ago with Ed Ternan and Marsha Lee Taylor of Song for Charlie, which is a national nonprofit dedicated to raising awareness about the dangers of fentanyl. Now you may know this fentanyl poisoning is one of the leading causes of death in young people. And what I am so glad to say is that this conversation will give you concrete guidance on how to talk with young people. Have effective conversations with young people about the danger dangers of fentanyl. Once you've had a chance to listen. I'm asking you to share this episode with friends. Share it with family. You will learn so much. They will learn so much. I learned so much in the conversation. And I also know that this is an episode that can save lives. Thank you in advance for helping us get the word out about how to keep our kids safe.

[A]

Okay, well, this is a topic, Lisa, you have always wanted to talk about.

[B]

Yeah, I've been thinking about this for a long time. This is a huge topic in the care of young people. Reena. I attended the funeral of a young woman I knew who died from fentanyl poisoning. It is big, it is scary. And I wanted to do this really carefully and do it right. So we found exactly the right people to have this conversation with. And you know, when I think about the episodes we've put out, there's no question in my mind this will be one of the most important if, and certainly I have no question, probably life saving episodes.

[A]

It affects so many people. And even if you don't know someone, you know, a lot of the episodes we do are to raise awareness in communities of issues. Your child might not be dealing with, but how other people are dealing with. And if, God forbid, you ever come down that road, you've got resources. And you're right. The next two guests are incredible. I can't wait to share the work they've been doing. Marsha Lee Taylor is the former president and CEO of the Partnership for Drug Free Kids and founder of MLT Strategies, a behavioral health consulting firm. She also created and ran the Medicine Abuse Project. It's a five year, very successful campaign to drive down teen misuse of prescription medication. And she also served as a senior advisor for drug policy and research for the Senate Judiciary Committee on Crime and Drugs. And she's a proud parent of two teenage daughters. Ed Turnin in May 2020 lost his 22 year old son Charlie, who was poisoned by a counterfeit prescription pillow. Since that time, Ed and his wife Mary have dedicated themselves to informing young people about the new risks of self medication and recreational drug use in the age of synthetic drugs like fentanyl. They also have a nonprofit charity called Song for Charlie. They create and distribute fentanyl awareness and drug education materials online to campuses and also via social media. Welcome to you both.

[C]

Thank you.

[D]

Thank you so much for having us.

[B]

Thank you for the work you're doing. Thank you for the time you're taking with us. I will say I have always been uneasy about drugs. The entire time I've cared for teenagers. I don't know that I've ever been as frightened of anything as I am of fentanyl. So actually, Ed, let's start with you. Walk us through the basics. What is fentanyl and how are young people coming into contact with it?

[C]

Right. Well, I think what's really important for parents to understand is that there's been a seismic shift in the drug landscape in the last several years and it's driven by this movement of drug traffickers from using plant based materials as the main ingredients in their street drugs to chemicals. They're way more profitable and easier to move around. And so fentanyl is a very potent opioid. And it began to emerge on the US market in the heroin supply in 2013, 2014. But what began happening really in 2019 was the production of pressed counterfeit prescription medications that young people are familiar with, like fake Oxys, Xanax, Percocet that are made with this very potent opioid. So young people who may be experiencing either physical or emotional pain, they seek to self medicate. They go outside of normal channels to get what they think is a familiar medication that they've seen in the medicine cabinet, and they get one of these street pills that's loaded with fentanyl, and that's putting them at higher risk of accidental drug poisoning than has ever happened before.

[A]

Really, Marcia, you know, Ed's walked us through sort of where we've come, but I am from the 80s. My childhood was Nancy Reagan, first lady, telling us, just say no to drugs. And that was considered drug prevention. What are we not doing, and what do we need to do? If Nancy Reagan was just say no in the 80s, what. What are we right now?

[D]

So I think, you know, Lisa mentioned that she's never been more scared of the drug landscape than now, and I think she's exactly right. I mean, rena, you mentioned 1980s. In 1980, we had about 6,000 overdose deaths per year. Last year, we had more than 108,000 overdose deaths. It is just an entirely different landscape. And it is scary for parents raising teenagers right now, because unlike when we were growing up, there's absolutely no margin for error. Fentanyl is in fake pills, and it's also in powders like cocaine and methamphetamine and heroin. So kids need to understand that those substances can be deadly, that they just cannot wander into them. There is just no margin for error for them. And that's something that I think we just need to have those very specific conversations with kids so they understand that risk. But what's different from the 1980s is that just say no mentality sort of assumed that that was easy. And I think we need to look at really a holistic reason of why are kids reaching for substances? And you can't separate the drug conversation from the mental health conversation. And really, we need to be checking in on how kids are coping with all of the stresses in their lives to make sure they have healthy coping skills and healthy ways of dealing with all of the pressures that they face without reaching for substance. So it's really much more than one slogan. It's an everyday kind of conversation that sometimes will be specific about drugs, and sometimes we'll just be checking in on

[B]

how kids are thinking about this. You know, your statistics are harrowing. And one thing I know, and I know you know this is that drug use is actually dropping among teenagers. And so drug use is dropping, but overdose deaths are skyrocketing, I think is a fair way to characterize it without being hyperbolic. As we think about what's out there and who's out there, are there particular groups at higher risk for this? Is there someone in More danger than someone else. How should we size this up? Ed, why don't you let us know your thoughts on this?

[C]

Well, this is really an equal opportunity risk. And when you think about the 80s and just say no, our tagline is that we say just say no, but we spell it K, N, O, W. Because young people are dying really from a lack of information. What's really different about this and the reason it affects all groups across the whole country is this deception. So these substances, like the counterfeit pills, are presented as one thing when they're really another. And so people going out to use cocaine recreationally are not aware that cocaine can be contaminated with fentanyl. So that's why our mission really is to just give people a level of knowledge, both families, parents, caregivers and young people directly to understand this new chemical drug landscape. Because really no one is immune from this risk. And another thing that's different is there may not be any warning signs because this can happen so suddenly. One mistake, one impulsive decision. I'm not feeling well. I've seen the Xanax in mom's medicine cabinet. I'm going to go for one of those on the street or from a friend. And they don't get a Xanax. What they get is not a Xanax at all.

[B]

Actually, I want to ask a follow up question on this one, Marcia. Just from the marketing side or the. I hate thinking in these terms, but I just have a question like, why would dealers create drugs that kill their potential customers? Like, I just. I don't get that piece.

[D]

Yeah, it's a great question, Lisa, and one that Ed and I get all the time. You know, I think that what people need to understand is that this is a business and that the, the goal behind this for drug manufacturers, drug distributors, is to get people addicted to this new, cheaper, easier to manufacture chemical substance. So along the way there are going to be some casualties. But a lot of people don't overdose and die. A lot of people get addicted and then become the repeat customers. So I think you just need to sort of look at it like a business. And what is tricky is that this is not, you know, these substances are not manufactured in a chemical laboratory. The dosing is very imprecise. So oftentimes we hear these tragic stories of kids who split a pill and one kid lives, the other kid dies, or who buy from the same dealer in the same situation. One person lives, one person dies, and that is because of the imprecise dosing. And the intent is not to kill People, the intent is sort of to get it right and get people addicted and coming back for more. But there are unfortunately a lot of casualties along the way.

[A]

Ed, as we mentioned at the top, you lost your son Charlie because of a fake prescription pill laced with fentanyl. What do you want parents to know about this?

[C]

Well, what it's important for parents to know is that they have to have this conversation. We've started a new initiative called the new drug Connect to Protect. And we did that because we think we need to normalize an ongoing dialogue and discussion in the home around mental wellness and self medication and this new chemical drug landscape because that's the highest leverage thing we can promote to protect young people from this risk. We know that drug prevention education actually works. We kind of have abandoned it post DARE and just say no. We've gone from just say no to just say nothing. And some of the polling we do indicates that young people, this misperception of harm that's out there, they rate fentanyl around as less dangerous than say heroin and cocaine. And yet 12 times more young people die from fentanyl than heroin and cocaine combined. But what's the learning there? They know heroin, cocaine are risky because they've been told that and they pick it up in popular culture. They're not aware of what fentanyl is. So just by getting the conversation started in the family room, around the kitchen table, in, in a, in a welcoming and curious and supportive way, we think that'll be a real protective factor. So that's what we're really, that's what parents need to know and we want to give them the tools through the new drug talk and the confidence to have this conversation for all parents out

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

I think of drugs like, oh, at a party, somebody's pushing. But where are ways that this could happen to your child that parents might not think about in today's age?

[C]

Well, I think that kind of an interesting pro tip to get this discussion started and keep it going is to do it together. So we have this unique opportunity in that this is new, so it's new to mom and dad and it's new to the kids. So it doesn't have to be a one way lecture. Listen, you're old enough now to have this talk. There's drugs out there and you just stay away from them. It can start with, look, I'm concerned, I've heard something new. I'm just learning about this. What are you hearing? And I think this is very important and I'm concerned for you and your friends. Let's learn about this together. Let's make a promise to one another that we're going to talk about this. If you find something on the Internet, you find new information, if you hear a news story, let's discuss it because we both need to really get smart about this so we can keep you and your friends and everyone we love safe from this new risk. So there's new ways and kind of tricks I think of the trade that maybe we need to think about to Help families normalize this conversation, Marcia.

[B]

Help build it out even further. I love that, Ed, what you said. And especially thinking as a psychologist and thinking about how we open lines of communication and keep them opening open and, you know, make sure the kids feel they can come back to us as landscapes change for them. Marsha, what else would you have us bring up in that conversation? Or what else can you tell us about how to approach that conversation? Help us out here?

[D]

Sure. And I think there are some things that we can think about for different developmental stages too. Right. I think all kids need to know that pills and powders are dangerous and potentially deadly and that kids need. That needs to be a no go zone. But I think kids also need to know what to do in the moment. So when they're at that party and someone offers them something, what are the refusal skills? And this is something that people, kids have to practice. They have to have something in their back pocket that they know they can use. And I always say that for my teens. I always say, blame me, you know, use me as the bad guy and text me if you need to get out of a situation. And I will be the bad guy, saying, you have to come home right now and really talking through those scenarios with your kids so that they are comfortable in that very stressful moment and knowing what to do. But something else that I think all parents should be aware of is that there is a medication called naloxone which can reverse an opioid overdose. And it is essential to have that in your house. I know some parents think, not my kid. It's not going to happen. Every parent needs to have this. It should just be part of the first aid kit, because you never know if it's your kid, someone else at your house who's going to need that, and it can really be the difference between life and death.

[B]

And this is available over the counter now, right? You can go get it at your drugstore.

[D]

This is new. The FDA just made it available over the counter. It is available at your local drugstore. You can also order it online. It is very easy to get. There are also resources in communities, harm reduction organizations that will give it out for free if there's about a $40 price tag on it. And for some families that may not be accessible. So there are other ways to find it, and I would urge every family to have it on hand.

[B]

Actually, when I sent my older daughter to college in the fall of 2022, Ohio had an initiative I trust that they still do, where you could go online and Watch a video about how to administer Narcan, when to worry and what to do. And you watch the video and then you get sent Narcan. We watched the video together. I sent her to college with the Narcan. It was, I will tell you, a very uncomfortable conversation to have. And it also felt absolutely essential. And she was surprisingly open to it. I think I was much more uncomfortable about it than she was. And. But I said to her, you know, when I think about you being in college, like, this is what really scares me. And I think that you or your peers could encounter this by accident. I think that's likely how you know if it's going to happen, it's probably going to be entirely accidental. And I've said to her, you need to keep this with you and everybody needs to know you have this.

[D]

Yep.

[B]

Is there more we can do?

[D]

So I think having those conversations like you did with your daughter and making sure that parents are really checking in with kids on a daily basis about their well being and their mental health and so many of the things Lisa and Rena that you talk about on this podcast about coping skills and about resilience and making sure that kids are reacting in appropriate ways to the different sad events that may happen in their lives is really important because if parents have their finger on the pulse of what's going on with their kid, they're able to intervene earlier, before. Before kids may reach for something else to sort of be a quick fix to an uncomfortable feeling that they're having.

[A]

So I want to ask you, we talked a little bit earlier, kind of in our conversation about drugs that are laced with fentanyl. It's being cut into cocaine, heroin and meth. What do you think, in your experience and research works in getting young people to see that? You might not think you're taking fentanyl, but it could be laced in something that you don't even know it's in that pill.

[C]

When we talk to young people directly, we use a couple of kind of techniques. We know that young people are kind of programmed to take risk and think, well, I'll figure it out. It won't happen to me. Right? So sometimes we triangulate and we talk about, listen, you need to know this because you would not want this to happen to anyone in your friend group, your girlfriend, your boyfriend, your cousin. You don't want this to happen to anyone you love. That would be terrible, right? So you need to understand that for reasons that are outside of all of our control, the pills, especially when you're Talking to younger people. The pills that are out there are not what you're looking for. If you're looking for relief and you need help, there are ways to get that. We with your parents, with your doctor, and that's okay. But if you go outside of those channels and you go for a pill, the first thing you need to know is it's not real. I say, just like there's no chicken in a nugget, there's no Xanax on Snapchat. You will not find that relief on the Internet. And so that's the first thing. And we really, we try to engage young people and empower them with really actionable information they can use to make healthier decisions for them and their friends. We think that's very important because our kids are under enough stress. So we don't want to hit them with this messaging of hey, here's one more thing you have to worry about. We kind of hit it with, there's a new public health issue out there. It affects you and your friends. You need to get as smart as you can about it so you can protect yourselves. And we do it with a sense of hope. We've nicknamed ourselves Team Hope. We wouldn't be doing this work if we didn't think we could make a significant dent in the risk to young people just by making them smarter and more informed and their parents and their caregivers about what's going on so they can navigate this new minefield better.

[B]

I love how you're approaching this because I do know that if you come at teenagers with, you know, this is on fire, this is out of control, you know, they just shut down and you know, what else could they possibly do? So I love your approach. And so then a of lot along those lines, Marcia, like you have given us some incredible do's about how to have this conversation. Any don'ts that you want to share with us in terms of like don't do this as a way to approach this conversation?

[D]

I would say don't approach the conversation from a place of judgment. When Song for Charlie did some research before launching the new drug Talk, one of the key things we learned is that one of the top reasons why kids don't talk to their parents about substances is fear of judgment. So I think you need to have this open line of communications. You need to set your expectations clearly of what you expect them to do. But we know that kids brains aren't fully developed. They're going to trip up, they're going to make mistakes. So you want to create an environment where they will come to you. And the other thing I would say is don't think that you've sort of checked the box. The conversation is done. The other nugget from that research is that when we ask parents, have you had the conversation with your kids? 70% of parents say that they had had a conversation about fentanyl with their kids, but only 30% of kids reported hearing that conversation. So I think it, you know, repeat yourself, sit them down and talk about it again. Look for those moments when you can bring it up in conversation. Because the drug talk, as in all things with teenagers, they tend to tune things out. And I think you really need to make sure that it's getting through.

[B]

You know, it's so interesting. You know, I know what you mean about teenagers sort of not taking it in. And I think sometimes when I've cared for teenagers, it's because the parent approaches and the kid's thinking, I'm not going to parties. That's not part of my life. And so they tune out. And then six months later, that kid is wildly social or, you know, around that stuff, and the window needs to open again. And so I think I've so come to appreciate how quickly kids change and develop and how. I could not agree more. Like, you can't just be like, yep, check the box. Had the conversation. We don't need to do it again.

[A]

Yeah. Also, Lisa, you always talk about how we need to have these ongoing conversations. There isn't one sex talk. There isn't one drug talk. There isn't one. That one isn't enough, that you've got to keep engaging. And I love that. I love that. The message all three of you are saying. So I'm curious, what should we do to prepare our kids for the possibility that they might be present when a drug overdose happens? If you call the cops and the cops show up and there are illegal drugs, does this mean your child's going to get in trouble with the police? How should a kid respond if they know there's been a drug overdose and they don't have the resources to help do this, deal with this on their own?

[C]

Well, I'll take this opportunity to echo what Marcia said about naloxone or narcan. The interesting thing about Narcan is it's an antidote. It reduces an opioid overdose. And what I tell families is what you should know about that is narcan or naloxone is the only thing that reverses an opioid overdose. So if you are in somewhere where there's an overdose occurring and you call first responders and you're giving cpr. You're all just buying time for the first responders to get there, and then they're going to administer naloxone. And the sooner you get naloxone going, the better. So very important, first of all, to have it at the ready and know how to use it. It's very, very easy to use. And the other thing to know is know that doing the right thing and calling 91 1, which you have to do, even if you administer naloxone, you have to get someone to the hospital. That the U.S. government, law enforcement is doing everything they can to encourage naloxone distribution, to get it all out there, and to assure people that if you call authorities during an overdose, you will not be punished for having illegal substances, being intoxicated, underage, having a party at your house. I tell the kids, now, listen, they're going to shut the party down, turn the music off, take the drugs away. That's going to happen. But nobody's going to go to jail. Right? Sorry if I get emotional. The first responders. First responders will shake your hand and say, you did the right thing. So very important for young people to feel empowered to say, I've got my Narcan. I take it wherever I go and I'm ready in case this happens. And I don't have to worry that there's going to be negative consequences if I step in. It's super important in this environment.

[A]

I've never heard anybody tell me that.

[D]

Yeah, just one really important piece to add to that, because I think this is such a critical. Such a critical conversation. I think there are some kids who are afraid or some adults who are afraid that they'll do harm if they use Narcan on someone. And I just want to reassure everyone that if someone is not overdosing and you use Narcan on them, nothing bad is going to happen. Only good can come of using Narcan. So people should not hesitate, they should not wait to sort of see if this is really an overdose or if the person's just fallen asleep. There's absolutely no harm in using naloxone on someone.

[B]

That's good to know. It's good to know. And I will tell you, the only thing that allows me to sleep at night in the context of the fentanyl crisis is the reality that Narcan is available, does work, can be accessed increasingly easily. I mean, I think otherwise, you know, this would be beyond terrifying. This is now somewhat terrifying because we do have that available as a solution.

[A]

Wow. I just, wow, this is such a deep episode. And I think I'm listening to this thinking, it's not going to be my kid. It's not going to be my kid. But how many parents out there, like, have that feeling, it's not going to be my kid, you know, wow, it's just so powerful. Before we go, what would you guys like to leave our audience with that you think they might not know about the moment we're in? Like, the Narcan thing was so big. Can I tell you? I left for college with a tv, VCR combo and thought, like, that's the one thing every kid should have in their dorm room. And to hear you say that this is the one thing, it's just how times have changed, that was powerful. But what do you want to leave us with before we go?

[C]

I would say that parents need to understand that through no fault of their own, and certainly no fault of their young people, that their kids are navigating now in a drug landscape that while in the past we described it more like a path where you could get off on the wrong track and eventually harm might come in the form of an overdose. Now it's more like a minefield where one false move, one misstep could cost your child his or her life. And that's not the child's fault. And we don't want to stress him out and freak them out about that. But it is important information. And we've created this culture that's normalized kind of self medication and the quick fix. There's a pill for every ill kind of thinking. And there needs to be a change in mindset to say, you know, what your grandmother told you was right. There are better, more natural ways to change your mood, to change your brain chemistry, fresh air, sunshine, prayer, meditation, exercise. All those things are now like critical life skills. They're not nice to have. It's really important that your kids embrace those things, that you encourage those things, that you model those things instead of the, I got a problem. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna pop a pill and feel better for a little while because that behavior just a few short years ago was fairly benign, but today it is really, really potentially deadly. So that's. That's what I would leave parents with, with.

[B]

Thank you. And I want to direct people to your website. The new Drug Talk will link to it in the show notes. It is so smart. It is so well done. It is broken down developmentally. It is not overwhelming. It's got just what people need. I know that you are partnering with states who are getting this out to people that the work you've done is just excellent. I cannot overstate my gratitude to you for what you've created. And I get choked up where you've taken this moment in your life, this experience, this terrible thing that happened in your family and the generosity you have shown in just doing everything within your power. And it's substantial to help keep more young people safe.

[C]

Thank you very much, Lisa. Thank you. Appreciate it.

[A]

God bless Marcia and Ed from the new Drug Talk. Be sure to check out their website. It's got incredible resources, as Lisa mentioned. It's called www.songforcharlie.org. we're going to link to them in our show notes so you can find it there as well. Thank you both for joining us. I learned so, so much. I'm going to go get that in our can right next to the Neosporin and the Band aids. Boy, I didn't realize that something I really needed. Thank you for joining us.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

I can't tell you what an incredible moment that was to have Ed come on and talk about taking personal pain and tragedy. What could is probably the worst moment of your life and helping so many parents out of that grief. Just remarkable to me.

[B]

I know, I know. Incredible work.

[A]

So, Lisa, what do you have for us for parenting to go?

[B]

There's so much I could say, but I will say this. I really, really appreciate the gentle approach that Ed and Marcia are suggesting because one of the things I know can also happen with teenagers is a parent listens to an episode like this and then the kid comes home and they're like, we need to talk about fentanyl. And the way the teenager takes that in is, what did I do? What did I do?

[A]

I screwed up.

[B]

Where is this coming from? Why would you like they personalize it because they're adolescents. And so the language provided of, hey, this is going, going on, this is happening around us. We need to learn about this together. I can't overstate, just as a psychologist who cares for teenagers, how essential that framing is to keep the lines of communication open. Because kids take this stuff, you know, very. They're sensitive to it, they take it personally, and you'll lose them with that approach. So I'm so grateful for how they laid out a tactic to get into that conversation and stay in that conversation.

[A]

So you're saying while they might be surprised and wonder this is coming out of left field. You're saying, have the talk with them and explain why you're doing this now.

[B]

Give them context for why this is coming up. Now. That will keep the door open.

[A]

Got it. Well, I see why you wanted to have this episode. I'm so glad we did. And what I love about our podcast is you might not be at that destination just yet, but it could be coming right around the corner. And so thank you for preparing us for Lisa and our thanks to Ed and Marcia for joining us today. I'll see you next week.

[B]

I'll see you next week.

[A]

Thanks for joining us. Be sure to subscribe to the Ask Lisa podcast so you get the episodes just as soon as they drop. And send us your questions to ask [e-mail] and now a word from our lawyers. The advice provided on this podcast does not constitute or serve as a substitute for professional psychological treatment, therapy or other types of professional advice or intervention. If you have concerns about your child's well being, consult a physician or mental health professional. If you're looking for additional resources, check out Lisa's [e-mail].