← Ask NT Wright Anything
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- [00:00]
Host
Before we dive into today's discussion, we've got a special resource just for you. A free ebook called Does It Make Sense to Believe in God? In Today's world, where faith is often labelled as outdated or irrational, this ebook takes a fresh look at the evidence for God. It features reflections from years of engaging with some of the world's leading atheists, like Richard Dawkins, and reveals why, after hearing every conceivable argument, our confidence in God's existence is stronger than ever. Download Does It Make Sense to Believe in God Today? For free@premierinsight.org resources that's premierinsight.org resources. Now let's get on with today's show.
- [00:45]
Interviewer
Welcome to today's replay of Ask NT Wright anything. Well, welcome along and a very happy Christmas to you. This is our Christmas episode in which we'll have at least one Christmas question, but actually it's, it's a bit of a chance to bring together a few questions for this episode, Tom, about you and your habits and your pleasures and enjoyments and that sort of thing. So we'll start with our Christmas question. And this is a great one. A trivial one, maybe, says Sheila in Bury, New South Wales. But I always wonder what Mary and Joseph did with the gold, frankincense and myrrh. Any thoughts?
- [01:30]
NT Wright
Oh, goodness. Pause for all kinds of silly children's books and cartoons and goodness knows what and, and, and pictures of, of Mary having just had a child, saying, you know, that's the last thing I need. Cold Franklin and, and this and that and the other. Yeah, I mean, who knows, who knows, who knows? And did they take it with them in the flight to Egypt or had they safely deposited it with either Joseph's relatives or Mary's relatives? I have absolutely no idea. Of course, some people would say it was all symbolic anyway, that, the whole thing. But it's such a strange story and, and as an ancient historian, I'm rather inclined to say when, when you get strange stories like this, which nevertheless have quite a sharp focus, you know, these guys went to the wrong king, they went to Herod and had to be redirected and all that stuff going on. No, I, I'm, I'm happy to say let's stay with the story. But I, I wish I knew, I wish I knew. It may only have been a small piece of gold, a small thing of frankincense and, and a small vial or whatever of myrrh, symbolic and strangely dark in their meaning. So thanks for the question. You know, I think over Christmas I Shall ask my friends and family that question and see if I get any good answers.
- [02:51]
Interviewer
See you can come up with the best scenario. What happened? Well, turning from Christmas questions to questions about you people people often like to ask sort of about your own personal study habits and enjoyments and things like that. Tom Toby in London wants to know Tom, you've written hundreds of books and articles and probably delivered thousands of lectures. I've like to know how you research, how you keep track of all you read and draw on all that information for everything that you're producing. What methods do you use to collate information as you work on your various projects?
- [03:25]
NT Wright
I wish I had a better answer for this. You can probably see in the background of this picture there are piles of papers and books and I live with imminent chaos with stuff which I vaguely know where it is. And I vaguely know that one of those notebooks over there has the scribbled notes that I'm making for a book or article or whatever that I may be writing or a course of lectures that I have to do. I try to stay on top of them but for me the next project is always more fun than the one I was working on six weeks ago. So this is just a personality problem which I have. So I do try to keep track. If I have notebooks, I've got one here, I can happily show you this. This is the. Those are the notes for the talk. I gave it at a student meeting last night. And this goes back. I try to keep dates. Yes so I. I like these. This size notebook which will. It's not too bulky to carry around and I can actually read what I scribble in it just about. But this goes back. Here's some notes for a webinar I was doing a month or two ago. Here's some notes from a lecture that I attended and from time to time I go back through these notebooks and I've got lots of them scattered around and try to say ah yes, now I need to follow that up and I need to email somebody about that or that will contribute to this project that I'm doing When I'm working on a com. A biblical commentary then that's comparatively easy because you can see here's the text. Here are my notes on these bits of text. I probably have a loose leaf file or whatever for that. I'm not very good at keeping those sorts of notes online. There are lots of software programs now I know people tell me about them where people can draw drop in notes into a piece of software and then easily retrieve them. I'm too old for that. I came into word processing and I'm sticking with that. And I'm not trying to use electronic means for other things apart from anything else. I like to do kind of mind mapping and I write a word in the middle of a sheet of paper and then have lines going out from it and then other things connecting. I know again you can do that on a computer. I find it much easier on a notebook or maybe a large A3 size of paper which I can then look at and think ah, wait a minute, that goes with that and I'm repeating myself here, so let's put those together and so on. When I was writing my biggest ever book, which was Paul and the Faithfulness of God, I had a room in Princeton where I was on sabbatical, where the bookshelves went up to about chest high and then it was blank wall above that and I basically wallpapered the whole room with large post its sort of mega S size posters. And each chapter in the book had its own one which started off with just a few scribbles and after a month or two they were all covered because as I was reading and reading articles and books and, and studying the texts themselves of Paul's letters, I was thinking, ah, now that belongs in chapter four so we need to have something on there. And, and so I could actually see the book developing and that, that enabled me to, to keep tabs on what was going on, which otherwise would have been very difficult with a large and complex project. And that was really quite fun. I've never had a room like that since because as you can see in this room the bookshelves go up to the walls everywhere where there isn't a window and so, so that isn't an option. But, but that, that's how I do it and it's a bit scatty and I no doubt miss tricks and I forget things and have to come back to them, but that's just how it's been and I kind of keep running to stay ahead of myself and go back and pick up things from behind me.
- [07:07]
Interviewer
Well, well, it works. Obviously not perfect but it does the job. I've always, yeah, bowled over by the amount you managed to produce, Tom. But look, sticking with the sort of the area of work and research and so on, John in Gloucestershire says, what exactly does a senior research fellow at Wycliffe hall at the University of Oxford do? And he also adds here, I've recently watched Dr. Becky Smethurst's A Day in the life of an Oxford University astrophysicist. Could you give a description, something on along those lines, please? Well, I'm afraid we don't. I don't think either of us have watched that, so. But, but. So I don't know whether you can.
- [07:50]
NT Wright
Tom, but I mean, Wycliffe hall has had a track record over many years now of having somebody who is basically retired coming and being a part time associate. I mean, the most recent one before me was Michael Green. And in fact, one of the things I had to do when I arrived was to do a Michael Green lecture in his memory because he had died not long before and it wasn't that he died, so they got me. He was actually stepping down anyway, and the principal said, look, Tom, if you're coming up to retirement, why don't you and Maggie come and live in Oxford and we'll give you a house where they basically pay the rent. They don't pay me a salary, so that's quite a good arrangement on a pension and so on. But that enables us to be here in Oxford near family, which is very nice. But my duties are that once a year, year, I do a course of lectures of Bible expositions. At the moment I'm in the middle of a series of nine or ten expositions on Romans 8, which has been very exciting. And then the rest of the year I will do individual sermons, individual lectures. They'll have a course on such and such, and they'll say, tom, will you do the one on. Whatever it is. So that they had a course on Genesis and would I do the one on. I forget which bit of Genesis it was I did. And likewise, if there are special occasions where they want something a little different, they'll say, could you preach for this particular occasion? But then the other thing, which, because of the pandemic, hasn't really been happening frustratingly, is I'm supposed to be meeting with students individually or in small groups, so that students will often have questions about their academic work, questions about putting together academic and pastoral life, which is of course what I've tried to do all my life. And so I'm always delighted to sit down and maybe have a cup of coffee with one or two or three students and say, okay, let's chew this over. Where are you in your course and what's going on and how can we help? And what books might it be good to recommend that you read? So that, for instance, this afternoon I'm meeting one such who's halfway through a course and wanting to know about future directions and so on. And we'll maybe spend an hour together and just think about that and pray about it. And so I am not anyone's tutor. I'm not anyone's official pastor. I'm merely an old flag around the place who has seen a bit of church life and academic life and may sometimes be able to say, it might help if you did such and such or whatever. And if that's useful, then that suits me. The main thing that I do actually is day by day, Monday through Friday, Wycliffe students meet together for worship. On Monday, that includes a Bible exposition. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, it's morning prayer. Tuesday afternoon, early evening, there's a college Eucharist. And I try to be there for those services because for me, being part of that prayerful studying, pastoral community is where it's at. And the prayer and the study and the pastoral stuff is. Is the combination that I've tried to live with all my life. So I was delighted. I'm very happy to be there. They actually invented the title Senior Research Fellow as a way of sort of as a gesture towards doing some stuff around the place. But we know that you're actually retired. Yeah. So I. At the moment, I'm thoroughly.
- [11:00]
Interviewer
Yes. And I'm sure, you know, as I'm sure it has in your other academic positions, being around young people who are coming through and going through those early stages of theological, you know, getting together things.
- [11:10]
NT Wright
Wonderful.
- [11:11]
Interviewer
I'm sure it's very invigorating as well.
- [11:13]
NT Wright
Yeah.
- [11:13]
Interviewer
Yeah, it is. Okay, let's. Let's switch to classical music. Another of your great passions, Tom? Melissa in Portland, Oregon asks. I know you're a classical music fan, Tom. I'm a classical pianist and piano teacher pursuing a master's in piano performance. I often consider how my Christian faith in intersects with my profession and how my music career contributes to God's beautiful world. Do you have any thoughts?
- [11:42]
Host
As we approach the end of the year, I want to take a moment to reflect on the incredible work God has done through Premier insight in 2024. This year, we've launched new podcasts like Rico Tices and provided impactful books and resources. And we've shared the powerful NT Wright videos to help people grow in wisdom and share their faith with clarity and compassion. But this ministry wouldn't be possible without you. Your generosity has equipped countless believers to live out their faith. Right now, we face $112,129 funding gap that must be closed by December 31st to sustain this vital work. Your gift Today will not only help us finish this year strong, but also lay the foundation for exciting plans we have for 2025. Visit premierinsight.org to give today together, let's make an eternal impact for God's kingdom. Thank you for your generosity. And now let's get back to today's episode.
- [12:41]
Interviewer
Regarding how classical music is meaningful in the Christian worldview and in God's kingdom. Wow.
- [12:47]
NT Wright
All sorts of thoughts.
- [12:49]
Interviewer
And she also asked. Also on a non theological note, I'd love to know what some of Tom's favorite classical composers or pieces are, though maybe it is a theological note as well. So do you want to start with your favorites and then we'll, we'll get into the sort of the theology.
- [13:04]
NT Wright
Yeah, I once had to do. I once was a guest on the Radio 3 program called Private Passions, which is like a slightly upmarket version of Desert Island Discs. And I think I had some Bach, I think I had some Sibelius, I had some Jazz actually as well. I can't just remember what else I had, but I'm fairly eclectic in my tastes. I love early choral music and the fact that Maggie and I now live right opposite the gate of New College in Oxford and two of our sons, our two sons both sang in the choir there at various stages and we love that choral music. So if you take me back to purcell in the 17th century or then particularly to Tallis and Bird and Tompkins in the 16th century and to think of choral evensong with that sort of music, that is just wonderful. And that music was written in order to talk about heaven on earth and it really does. But coming forward, I, you know, I've always loved the Bach passions. I think the Bach Matthew Passion was the first thing I sang in as a seven year old chorister and actually being in a church choir really nurtured that love of classical music for me. And of course Handel's Messiah was a staple and I then broadened out into other bits of Handel as well. But the Messiah remains as a sort of back marker for so much else. And then Bark and Handel, but then you come forward into Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven. I actually love Haydn. My wife finds him rather boring. I, I think there's a lot going on there. Mozart we were in the Sheldonian Theater the other night listening to a performance of Mozart's Requiem, which was just stunning and, and held on to us and we both the next morning still had some of that music in our heads and so on. Beethoven, of course, we went to a performance of the Emperor Concerto again a few weeks. It's one glories of being in Oxford. We can actually walk to these things. And again that music is so rich and so strong and so solid and. But for me as well. Schubert, Schumann, you come Forward into the 19th century. I. I had my Wagner moment a few years ago. My son, my oldest son and I went to a complete performance of the Ring, took a week out and simply did it and my goodness, I want to do it again someday but it's like having a 25 course meal and.
- [15:24]
Interviewer
Oh my goodness, I remember you talking about this because I remember it was at the. When we first started recording this podcast, you had just been to see the Wagner Ring cycle waxing eloquently.
- [15:36]
NT Wright
When I was an undergraduate I became very good friends. I'm still good friends with a man who introduced me to Sibelius. I'd known some Sibelius before, but he actually eased me into some of the darker bits like the Fourth Symphony and so on. And I still think that Sibelius 7 is. Is the symphony to end all symphonies as it were. It certainly ended it for Sibelius. Sadly she'd written more but it is just the most amazing masterpiece. I'm not so good on the. On the later 20th century stuff though I do love Vaughan Williams. Vaughan Williams is fifth I think is just magnificent and. And some of the modern choral music is. Is extraordinary as well have been all sorts of things but that tells you basically where I am. I wish I could still play the piano. When I was young I played it a great deal when I was studying for my degree I would award myself quarter of an hour's piano playing if I'd done two hours at the desk and so on. And I learned, oh, I don't know Schubert sonatas and that sort of thing which I couldn't really play well I would never be at concert level at all. But I had fun stumbling through them and figuring them out and so on. So. So that. That's where I came in. And it's been a delight to me that my family have carried that on. And again both my sons have been quite serious musicians. My oldest son has conducted the Durham Singers latterly for the last 10 years, which is one of the leading amateur choirs in the Northeast. And that's been just a great delight to see that being carried on through the next generation. Oh, and one of the last things I saw them perform was the Christmas Oratorio which has wonderful memories for me. Celebrations with that wonderful opening the celebration which Bach just gets this is what Christmas is all about, you know, and you can march around to it and feel the joy of Christmas welling up in a way which, frankly, dare I say, a lot of the modern worship songs don't quite do.
- [17:34]
Interviewer
Yes, yes. Well, no, I think that would be fair. Well, I'll tell you what, I'll, I'll stitch on to the end of this week's podcast just a little phrase or two at least from the Christmas oratorio.
- [17:43]
NT Wright
Wonderful.
- [17:43]
Interviewer
So, so that'll be the way we end it. But before we get there, Melissa did want to know any thoughts then on how classical music is meaningful in the Christian worldview and in God's kingdom?
- [17:53]
NT Wright
The answer is. The answer is read Jeremy Begbie, B E G B I E. If you don't know Jeremy Begby's work, please do. Jeremy has written at several levels, some quite academic treatments about the nature of music, some collected essay collections on music and faith, and so on, to one of which I contributed after I'd collaborated with, with a composer on one particular project, and Jeremy was involved in that as well. Jeremy is the person at the moment who is really carrying the torch for this whole thing of where music and faith meet. And it's been really exciting to see his work energizing a new generation of musicians to realize that this isn't just light entertainment around the side of the faith, but actually leads you right into the very heart of it in a way that nothing else can.
- [18:39]
Interviewer
Absolutely. And as we all frequently experience, whether we call ourselves Christian or not, music does have this transcendent quality, doesn't it? It speaks to a part of us that, that other things don't.
- [18:50]
NT Wright
Music is its own language, and like the sacraments in church, it doesn't translate into words. You can set words to music, of course, that's a different art, but music itself is its own language and we should learn to hear what that language is saying.
- [19:06]
Interviewer
So, yes, we, we bless you, Melissa. We, we all the best to you as you can, you know, pursue your masters in piano performance and know that God can speak through, through what you're doing. Yeah, absolutely. So good to. To spend the time with you today, Tom. Very happy Christmas to you and all the family.
- [19:24]
NT Wright
Thank you. And, and to you and yours as well.
- [19:26]
Interviewer
Thank you very much. And, and indeed to everyone listening to this podcast as well. It's been great to have you with us in this past year and we look forward to bringing you more in the year to come. But for now, thank you very much and see you in the new year. You've been listening to the Ask nt, Write Anything podcast. Let other people know about this show by rating and reviewing it in your podcast provider. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our US based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year with promo code NEWS. Visit LifeLock.com term supply.