← AuDHD and Then Some- Hosted by Ellie AuDHD
AuDHD and Then Some- Hosted by Ellie AuDHD
Why We People Please: RSD, Boundaries & Rejection in AuDHD | With Tasha
01:03:24
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- [00:00]
A
HD and some. Today I've got a really. And I'm gonna be real with you. Hopefully. She don't mind me saying, I've got really nervous. Tasha, with me. Tash, how are you? Can I say that?
- [00:12]
B
Yes, you can. Everybody knows I find podcasts difficult.
- [00:17]
A
She's been freaking out for about five minutes. So, yeah, I'm just gonna let you know she is nervous, but I'm gonna take the lead and speak, and Tasha will hopefully answer some questions. Is that right, Clash?
- [00:30]
B
Yeah, that's. That's okay.
- [00:32]
A
So today we're going to talk about this month's topic in the subhub, which is rsd, Rejection Sensitive Disorder and People Pleasing. So welcome back to all DHD and some. I'm Ellie, as always, and today we're talking about something that so many neurodivergent people silently struggle with, and it's Rejection Sensitivity Disorder, Disorder or dysphoria, also known as rsd and People Pleasing. Have you ever apologized when you haven't done anything wrong? Because I know that I have. And have you ever said yes when every part of you wanted to say no? And have you ever convinced yourself somebody was upset with you because they replied with okay instead of okay? Kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss. Or spent hours replaying a conversation wondering if you'd said the right or the wrong thing? If any of this sounds familiar, and I really think that it probably will, today's episode is definitely for you. So, Tasha, we're going to have an honest conversation about why rejections can feel so overwhelming, why so many neurodivergent people. People, please. And how my skin fits into all of this, and how we start putting ourselves back on our own priority list. As always, we're going to be sharing our own experiences and our own opinions. This isn't therapy or medical adv, but we hope today's conversation helps you feel understood, validated, and a little less alone. So, Tasha, thank you so much for joining us. Let's dive in. Question one. Tash, let's start with the basics. For anyone who's never heard of rejection Sensitivity dysphoria before, how would you explain it to them?
- [02:21]
B
I think for me, RSD is. Is quite a significant topic. And I know it is for you, too, Ellie. In fact, for so many of us, or the hdrs or neurodivergent adults, RSD is such a big topic. And some people don't necessarily realize that what they're experiencing has a name. And I think RSD is in that example you gave earlier about. Well, they might have put. I'm not quite sure how you said it, but they might have put like, no kisses instead of three kisses or
- [02:56]
A
one less kiss than normal. Like, who cares? Kisses other than someone with rsd. Yeah.
- [03:01]
B
Or like a bullet point at the end of their sentence and it looks like it's a really harsh, like, message, but actually they've just added a additional bullet point or something.
- [03:11]
A
Yeah, exactly that.
- [03:12]
B
So that's a really good example. So it's when something can be perceived as sort of rejection or someone being cross with you, or it can come from criticism or just.
- [03:26]
A
My son text me. I think I told you. He texted me a couple of weeks ago and said, mum, can you please never write okay? You know, like the word O and K. And can you always write okay a Y? He said, because it makes me think that you're in a mood with me and my son's neurodivergent. So I was like, wow, I never realized that even from your own mum. And it would affect you. And just a simple word so you know, it does happen.
- [03:53]
B
Yes. Okay. Is a particular one. My daughter does it to me and I'm like, it's just the way she texts. It's just the way she texts. Or someone goes, yeah. Then I'm like, what does that mean? Have I done something wrong? Have I disappointed you? But essentially, it. It often. It's often related to rejection, criticism, or feeling like someone is disappointed with you. But that feeling can feel so much bigger and so much stronger than perhaps a neurotypical person might experience it. And it doesn't always have to be something huge or like a really obvious rejection. It literally, like we were saying, it could be a short message or someone not replying in a certain amount of time and they normally reply really quickly. Or, yeah, someone's tone of voice changes.
- [04:37]
A
Be busy. But you've turned it into some humongous thing in your head.
- [04:43]
B
Exactly. We very quickly turned it into, they're upset with me. That's not their normal. They normally respond in this amount of time. Oh, they don't like me anymore. Yeah. What have I done wrong? And I think it's not. It's something that happens that we don't do on purpose. We just feel things so much stronger. It's not overreacting. We feel emotional responses very strongly and they feel really real and intense in that moment. And it can feel physical, like, it can feel like anxiety and it can give you brains.
- [05:11]
A
Honestly, I can feel it. Like my blood runs cold. I. I get nervous. Like, my whole, like, I have anxiety from it. Like not so much anymore. But for some reason the last couple of years I've been a lot better. But growing up, definitely it, it froze me out of sync for days. Like it can, it has a effect on my whole life.
- [05:34]
B
Yes, absolutely agree. Because I, I know now what the name is and so do you. So when it starts coming up for me, I'm like, okay, sorry, I see.
- [05:41]
A
And I can name it and it
- [05:42]
B
helps it because I know what it is.
- [05:44]
A
Powerful. I think when you have the name for it and you know it's normal, the language gives you power. The same with, like we were saying with executive functioning last month before I called it lazy or, you know, or bone idle or Ellie can't be asked to do something. But you know, now I know it's got a name. Executive function. A lot of people feel it and the reasoning behind it, it actually makes me feel less bad about it. So, so when we have a name for RSD and we know that it's normal and the reasons behind it, we're going to start feeling less bad. And I think giving it that name is definitely a powerful thing.
- [06:22]
B
Yeah. And although it's not a formal diagnosis, it's a name that so many people relate to. And being able to have people in your life that you can say like me and you do it all the time, don't you? When we're messaging, we will say, oh, that triggered my rsd. Did you mean it like that? And the other person's like, no, don't be silly, of course not. But, but we feel comfortable to be able to say that as friends. And I think having both that shared language really helps us to understand that the other person isn't doing anything.
- [06:51]
A
I think it's important for people that aren't autistic or aren't ADHD to also know the language. You know, like friends, family. Because I can say to my mom like, I can't at the moment, she probably actually don't know what it is. I don't know. But mom, that gave me rsd, do you really not want me to come over today? I think giving everyone access to that language is so important and in a non clinical way because I don't think anymore you have to be a clinical, you know, person to say rsd. I think it's becoming more known in the real world. You know, I think I can say to my 9 year old daughter, shit, I'm feeling RSD today because you don't want to hug me. And I think, you know, hopefully she will be brought up with words like that and she will understand it. So it help her understand her neurodivergent brain.
- [07:40]
B
Yeah. And the emotional kind of. The emotional intenseness and that kind of fluctuation in emotions for ADHD and all DHD adults isn't included in the diagnostic criteria. But actually it, it's a experience that I think every single person that I work with has and relates to.
- [08:01]
A
I can't say I've met many that haven't felt rsd and I've met a lot of where we're doing what we're doing in the community lately, you know, without our big group of, you know, 50,000. I can say that I've spoke to so many people in that group. So I've got quite a lot of people to choose from and a lot of them are coming every day with issues with rsd, whether they knew what it was or whether they're saying, is it normal? It is such a prevalent thing. I mean, every day I'm reading about five posts about rsd. Whether the person knows it's RSD or whether they're just finding out it's. It's definitely appropriate to talk about.
- [08:41]
B
And I think that's why we chose it for the theme this month in all DHT and then some subscription, because
- [08:46]
A
it was meant to be in December or. Or the next month. I think it was. We had this written down for December or January or something in the future. But I think we brought it forward because we've noticed it needs to be spoke about.
- [09:00]
B
And people pleasing and RSD come hand in hand really, because we people please because we don't want to feel RSD or we people please because we, we think that someone's disappointed or we think that we're going to disappoint someone. So therefore we do something.
- [09:14]
A
So you quickly put something in place to please them.
- [09:17]
B
Yeah. Whereas if we didn't have RSD and we didn't think there'd be, then we went away and we were like, oh, that was fine, doesn't matter. Then we wouldn't necessarily feel the need to people please because we wouldn't be left with that awful discomfort.
- [09:28]
A
I think why it's come up for me a lot lately is because I've been doing a lot of guest podcasts and it's been coming up with. We've been talking about relationships, people pleasing and boundaries. And I now I've worked out where my RSD and my people pleasing comes from. It comes from lots of different things that, for example, like at school where I, you know, neurodivergent children get criticism, whether purposefully or unpurposefully, a lot more than their counterparts that are neurotypical.
- [10:01]
B
So.
- [10:01]
A
So always when I was growing up, I felt like I was doing it wrong or, you know, so when I was older, I felt like I can't put boundaries in place. And, you know, I can't. I have to people, please. And I have to, you know, go along with things because I don't want to get criticized because I'm always getting it wrong. And, you know, and I think a lot of that, you know, boundaries, people pleasing, attracting people that, you know, we're more vulnerable because of our rsd and it's all intertwined. The people pleasing, the rsd, the boundaries, they're all one big ball from our neurodivergence.
- [10:39]
B
Yeah, they are. Boundaries is another one that really interlinks, and it's another huge topic. But it. They do definitely all intertwine. And the more you understand yourself and the more you start creating boundaries, you'll probably find that some of the relationships you have don't. Maybe they sort of don't carry on because the person's always been used to you, people pleasing. And that's. And they don't like it when you're actually putting boundaries into yourself.
- [11:04]
A
Sometimes it's not their fault because, you know, with a lot of people, I've taught them that I am the martyr. I am the provider. You know, I've gone into a lot of friendships and been like, no, no, no, you're not paying. I'm offended if you try and pay. I'm paying. And, you know, so I've taught people that, you know, that's my thing, and that I'll be offended if you try and pay. So then when I try and pull back and make them boundaries after years and years, people like, oh, you know, so it's not always people's fault. It's like I've had a whole personality change when I try and put in the boundaries, because I've never had any before. So sometimes it's just to people, people like, like, wow, you've changed since you've got your diagnosis. You're. You're not the same person anymore. But it's not always the other person's fault. Sometimes it's just because we have changed.
- [11:57]
B
And I think it. When you realize what it is, you're like, oh, my gosh, that's why I struggled so much when I was young and especially a teenager, and why I felt really weird around people and why, you know, why did I go away and overthink this?
- [12:10]
A
And.
- [12:10]
B
And other people were like carrying on
- [12:13]
A
like nothing was bothering me down to serious things. Like I can say it's what I've been in, you know, and without harping on too much about it, it why it is this serious. Like, it's why I've been in narcissistic relationships, it's why I've been in abusive relationships. It's why I've had lots of things happen as a child.
- [12:32]
B
It kind of attracts that narcissism doesn't make really vulnerable.
- [12:37]
A
And this is what I said on a podcast this week. I am so keen to make it known so that our children aren't ever vulnerable. Like you know, that our neurodivergent children aren't susceptible to narcissistic relationships and abuse. So we can work out how we can kind of praise our children and cut this RSC thing out and minimize it as much as we can. I think knowledge is power and it will help because it has such a bang on effect in everyday life. RSD Tash, when did you first realize that rejection said seem to affect you differently to other people around you?
- [13:20]
B
I've always known that actually since I was very young. I always was really intuitive and really grown up. At a really young age I felt and fought really deeply from like really, really young soul.
- [13:32]
A
Right. Like always.
- [13:33]
B
Like I've always been a really old soul. Like the party pooper or the, or the highly. Yeah. Or the highly sensitive one. Like why you like. Oh my God, I cannot even tell you how many times I've got told, oh, you're so sensitive. You take a joke, you're so sensitive. But you know, I, I genuinely cannot see like the joke. And some, sometimes the communication is like, it feels like rejection or sarcasm is difficult to understand or our friendship because
- [14:05]
A
I am a really, really sarcastic person. You know, I can't say my feelings. I can't say, say anything seriously. And so you know, me and your relationship together is quite an unusual one because your sensitivities are sometimes pricked by my level of sarcasm. So we sometimes have quite difficulty with that. I've got a really, really literal autistic child that isn't a child anymore, that's an adult and has grown up. Grown up with me being a sarcastic joker and you know, saying so many things in jest. I've. I don't think I've had many serious conversations in my life. And so I now, you know, and I hope they don't mind me saying. They're now in therapy, unpacking, you know, because I didn't realize that everything I'd said to them their whole life, they're taken seriously, and they've now got a severe amount of, you know, rejection. And they've had that throughout their whole life. And I never realized that because, you know, I've gone across, like, being jovial and, you know, sarcastic, and I never realized my autistic children would get so much RSD from just my personality. So I. It's really become something that I've had to become aware of, specifically being friends with you. Because you'll say something nice to me and I'll go, because I don't know what else to say to you. And so you'll say, oh, you're really good at this, Ellie. And I'll go, like. Because I. I can't accept a compliment.
- [15:32]
B
I get used to the sick face emoji now. It's all good.
- [15:34]
A
The six months sick face now means something really nice. But I do it to other people as well. You know, people that I know on Facebook and stuff. And they'll write something nice and I'll put a sick emoji. And I have to stop myself because not everybody knows. And, you know, they're neurodivergent people and they probably have rsd, so I'm making them feel some type of way. So it is a really complicated thing to unpack.
- [15:59]
B
I think I always knew when I was young that I was different, but I didn't know. I didn't have a clue what it was. Yeah. It's only as I got older and got my diagnosis and we've kind of delved deep into all of this over the last few years ourselves, that we realize, you know, you know, we realize what it is. And now I realize how much RSD affects me, what it is. How often makes me replay conversations in my head or. Or replay how somebody's tone or somebody's facial expression.
- [16:29]
A
Especially conversation from when I was six years old, mate.
- [16:33]
B
Yeah.
- [16:35]
A
Wishing I'd said it differently. I was six, and everyone else has moved on.
- [16:41]
B
And I'm like, there, like, days later, like, can't move on. I can't move on until I've got closure. Someone needs to tell me that nothing bad happened here.
- [16:50]
A
It's also related to. So, you know, if you text me. So sometimes you text me. Now you don't do it because you know that it's a no. No. But you used to text me when we first met, and you'd be like, ellie, I really need to talk to you about something later. And if I could, if I saw that flash up on my phone, but I was in a meeting or something, I had to sometimes stop my meeting and give you a call and say, hell, what have I done? Which is pathetic. But you now, you never do that to me. You say, you know, I need to talk to you later. It's nothing to worry about. It's just about xyz. But I've heard, you know, a lot of neurodivergent people, they get an email from their boss or a text from there.
- [17:26]
B
Yes.
- [17:27]
A
Something completely unrelated.
- [17:29]
B
Yeah.
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A
And they think, I've been sacked, I've done something bad. They found.
- [17:33]
B
Yeah.
- [17:33]
A
Out about me. And that is apparently as well related to RSD too.
- [17:38]
B
The dreaded message you get at the beginning of the day saying from your manager, saying, oh, I need to talk to you. At the end of the day, it doesn't tell you why. And then you think that you can't.
- [17:49]
A
You can't focus. And then you ring the person, you know, sometimes, like, because now I'll ring the person, I'll say, no, you need to tell me we need to talk about it. And I come across like a crazy person because they're like, whoa, you know, I only said, I need to talk to you later. People don't understand. So I think once you can name it and once we've spread the knowledge of it to all of our, you know, community, they'll be like, you know what? I'm not a weirdo. And I can happily explain to people why I do this, that I'm so passionate about giving people the knowledge of why they do things and where it springs from and spreading it to the world, because it does make you feel so much better. I now know I'm not a weirdo. I just have RSD because I'm a weirdo.
- [18:32]
B
Well, 50,000 of us in the. In our support group, and pretty much all of them, I would imagine, experience it at some point. So we're definitely not alone.
- [18:40]
A
Yeah, exactly that. Was there a moment when you felt like it was really affecting you, Tasha, and you felt like, this is really big. What age in life, like, was your teenage years, your childhood, your adulthood? When do you think RSD affected you the most?
- [18:57]
B
Oh, I. I mean, obviously when you're teenagers, emotions are high anyway, aren't they? And you feel out of place and. And you don't quite feel like you fit in. So I do remember that quite significantly being the very overly Sensitive person all of the time.
- [19:13]
A
Also, I think maybe school pickups and drop offs. So. And this is just come to my head now, so when I was at, you know, when I was dropping my kids off to school and, you know, stuff like that, I think I always felt a bit RSD in the playground, like I didn't really fit in or if I wasn't talking to the other mums, which to be fair, I never normally was because I was, you know, a bit of an introvert. I think I felt RSD a lot in them sort of situations as well.
- [19:40]
B
Yeah. I think from. Because my memory is terribly poor anyway with my adhd, my working memory. But in recent years, I think the RSD for me has actually come from starting my own business. When I first started my own business, oh my God, the rsd, the RFD imposter syndrome was so bad. And anytime someone sent me any kind of message that was any kind of negative connotation to it, I was like, oh my God, they hate me. Oh my God, still do that to me now.
- [20:08]
A
You'll send me a message and you'll be like, ellie, decipher this for me. And I'll be like, no, they don't hate you. They've just said they can't do an appointment on Tuesday at 6 o'.
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B
Clock.
- [20:18]
A
But it's completely. I get that completely. And the same with me. Like I'll message you and I'll be like, I've got 100 messages from different people all over the world today and I can't respond to them all and I don't want them to hate me. And because you become such a people pleaser because you don't want to feel like that RSD. And I know that I can't respond to 100 people from all over the world in a day. I just can't do it. It's not humanly possible. And a lot of people would be like, no, you can't, don't think about it again. But sometimes I'll wake up at 4:32am and it's always 4:32 that you've pointed out this week, Tash. And I'll start thinking about, you know, people are gonna hate me because I can't message them back. This is all of the RSD things. It affects so much, doesn't it?
- [20:59]
B
Yeah, it's like the other day I, I posted a, a post on Tick Tock, I think it was, and it was about signs of burnout and I thought it was quite a good post. Like gen ones I. We may be. And you have actually suffered with various times.
- [21:13]
A
No, I'm.
- [21:16]
B
Someone put a comment on there. I was like, oh, there's a comment. Because, no, people don't normally comment on tick Tocks. But someone had wrote nonsense and I was like, nonsense? What do you mean?
- [21:24]
A
Was it me?
- [21:26]
B
No, it wasn't you.
- [21:28]
A
I think twice about mess now. Now I've got this language and stuff where I think so hard before. I meant before I post on anyone's stuff. Because I know, like, when you got that message that said nonsense, you were like, really, like, whoa. Like, I know that it. It didn't really affect you as much as it would have done before now. No, you can kind of get over it. But I think now I'm really cautious what I say to people as well. Now I know what RSD is because I know how much it affects me. So I think it's, you know, it's good. It's not good that you've got the message. Nonsense. I mean, I'm just. I'm sure you still think about it sometimes.
- [22:05]
B
I was like, it's not nonsense. What are you talking about?
- [22:08]
A
But I think people be so mean. I don't get it.
- [22:11]
B
I know. I always think that. Why?
- [22:12]
A
We get some shitty messages, don't we, Tash? We do get some shitty messages.
- [22:16]
B
We do get some shitty messages. Yeah. But I think that as well, once you know it's RSD and you know it's going to trigger an RST reaction, it helps you manage it a lot better. Because I knew reading that, I'd be like, oh, but why did someone write that? So I kind of was able to shake it off easily and go, no, that's your brain telling you that. That you've done something wrong, but you actually haven't. It's just some person on the computer writing nonsense because they don't really know what you're talking about. Talking about.
- [22:38]
A
Exactly that. But I always message them. I always want to message them. And you always have to pull me back. Not to a message and abuse. I want to message them and be like, I need to explain why. Someone says to me, why do you keep advertising yourself? You know, they put links, you know, Facebook put my link every time under my.
- [22:55]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [22:57]
A
I've got so many messages from people the last couple of weeks saying, why do you keep spamming your links? And I keep messaging back saying, I'm sorry, so sorry. I'm so embarrassed. It's Facebook that does it. Because they want to earn money. It's not me. So I'm finding myself all the time over explaining and apologizing and I know that that's an RSD thing because normal people would think, you know, actually, so what.
- [23:20]
B
Even if it was you, so what is your content? It's your page. You can put your link on there.
- [23:24]
A
Exactly that. But I find myself a lot just messaging people and, and apologizing. And now I know it's an RSD thing and it's, it's quite comfortable when you're with other neurodivergent people because I just say to you, tash, sort me out.
- [23:38]
B
Yeah, I just way around as well, but I might just say, no, don't message. Do not message that person. Ignore and delete.
- [23:45]
A
Yeah, it makes, sometimes it makes me look unhinged. Like I'm asking a stranger from like Australia at 4am why don't you like me? Yeah, Ellie, sort it out. Like it's not normal. All they wrote was like, they don't agree with your point of view. And that is completely fine. Like, why, why are you crying in your.
- [24:04]
B
Straight away, you think that you're, you think that you're the one in the wrong. And that's the thing.
- [24:08]
A
Straight away, because I've been the one in the wrong since I've been like a kid because, you know, I don't normally get social, social things. So, yes, I've always been the one in the wrong. So I'm always assuming I'm the one in the wrong even when I'm not.
- [24:21]
B
Yeah. It's hard to break the pattern of a lifetime, isn't it?
- [24:24]
A
So we have touched upon this. So. But I'm going to ask you anyway because it's on my list of questions, so I'm going to roll with it. What. Why do you think so many neurodivergent people become people pleasers? And I think I just covered that when I said it's because we've always been wrong.
- [24:40]
B
Yeah, that feeds nicely to that question. Because it's like life teaches us that we have to become people pleasers because we're, you know, if you think about it right from childhood, neurodivergent children are corrected a lot, especially if they, if they're not diagnosed, they're told they're too loud to be quiet. You know, they need to be quiet. They need to stop fidgeting, moving, stop being too emotional or sensitive or. Don't be so blunt. Why are you saying that too bluntly? Or you're being intense or why can't you focus?
- [25:03]
A
Never get it right. Can you? It's either one or the other. It's never, you can never get it right. And I'm not saying all neurodivergent people, some people might have had an amazing time, but I know from our group of 50,000, it's quite a lot that have been criticized their whole life. So it is a pattern.
- [25:20]
B
And also, you know, the comment, those comments, sometimes they're not even meant to be mean, you know, sometimes they're just passing comments or they're just a mum who's stressed, who goes, oh, you're being so loud again. Or, you know, it's not even like that. They're coming as a mean, in a mean way. It's that. But over time with, with our brains and susceptibility to kind of like literal thinking and black and white thinking and hearing those messages over and over again, you know, we can start to believe that we are the cause of the problem.
- [25:44]
A
Yeah, I think that's why I've settled for shit friendships, shit relationships, because I thought, oh, they're showing me attention, let me take what I can get because, you know, I'm crap. So I think it really affects self worth.
- [25:57]
B
Yeah, agreed. And I think it, it becomes a way of keeping yourself, keeping yourself safe from those messages in the future. So you're constantly trying to scan it out? Yeah, Hyper vigilant, monitor it. Looking at people's tone and facial expressions and apologizing before you even does something wrong because you just want to avoid that, that feeling of that you feel like you're in the wrong and just
- [26:21]
A
because it is a horrible, shitty feeling. Do you think we're born this way then? Or does this mean that life just teaches us to become this?
- [26:29]
B
I don't think we're, we're born necessarily believing that everybody else's needs matter, needs matter more than ours. But I think that it's learned through experience and our brains are more sensitive to it. So just with adhd, we are more likely to experience those heightened emotions. So if we're hearing those messages and we're also experiencing heightened emotions, then it makes sense that we would learn that. Oh, and if I don't. People, please something, someone would say something bad to me or.
- [27:00]
A
Which comes on to my next thing, which is masking. So it's, it's all another hand in hand thing. So masking. I mask a lot around a lot of people because I don't want to stand out like a sore thumb or, or I don't want to embarrass myself or I don't even know I'm doing it. It's like a autopilot thing. You know when you're driving and you're going somewhere and you forget you're going there and you just get there.
- [27:21]
B
Yeah.
- [27:21]
A
Do you think masking and people pleasing go hand in hand?
- [27:27]
B
Hugely. Because masking is hugely darling. Yeah. Don't. Don't correct how I'm speaking because now my rsd.
- [27:40]
A
I'm taking a piss because it's so poshly.
- [27:43]
B
That's just as bad.
- [27:44]
A
I'm so sorry. I just said I don't do it anymore and now I make myself look like a dick in front of everyone. Not everyone's listening because I'm getting RSC now, so go, go ahead.
- [27:53]
B
Anyway. Masking. So, yes, because masking is when, for people who don't know what masking is, it's when you hide parts of yourself
- [28:02]
A
or for people that don't know what masking is. She means masking. So. I'm so sorry.
- [28:08]
B
I'm gonna hang up in a minute.
- [28:10]
A
Okay. Right, go on, go on, go on.
- [28:12]
B
You put. You put me off. You put me off. Masking is when we hide parts of ourselves or suppress parts of ourselves to fit in or to meet other people's expectations. And people pleasing is similar. It's when we change our behavior to make other people comfortable. And essentially that two of them are the same thing. They both prevent rejection and they both help us to. Or we think they both help us to fit in. And they both kind of involve that process of analyzing, well, who do I need to be and how do I need to behave in this situation? What's expected of me?
- [28:48]
A
It can be autopilot. Like we don't even know we're doing it. So, for example, I've done a post a couple of months ago and I was sitting in Brighton and I was eating sushi and I thought, and I've been doing a lot of self analysis over the last couple of years, a lot of self work. But, you know, it's reached the pivotal point now where I'm meeting so many, all the HD people. I'm really, really working on myself constantly without even realizing. And there's been a lot of self discovery. So I was sitting there eating my sushi and I looked down and I thought, what a odd thing for me to like, you know, I don't really like fish and it's cold and it's weird. I've just paid 15 quid for it, like. And then I remembered that someone years ago said, like, it. It's really cool to like sushi. And I just then started liking it for no reason. And, you know, I taught myself to like it because when I first tasted it, I was like, this is rank. But I just, you know, I. I went through the pain so I could be cool. So actually, I didn't even remember that I was masking. And I don't even like sushi. It's just the mask has become my face.
- [29:55]
B
Yeah. And masking, masking, people pleasing and RSD again, they all go hand in hand. But when we people please for so long, and when we mask for so long, sometimes it's hard to find where the line is between what actually is you and where the mask is. And that genuinely does happen. Like, trying to figure out in adulthood who actually am I and what actually do I like.
- [30:18]
A
And, yeah, I don't know where, because I've like. So I grew up in a really racially diverse area, and there's a lot of. And I love it. You know, there's a lot of different races where I lived and where I grew up. So, you know, when I'd have Nigerian friends, which I grew up having Nigerian friends a lot, and I'd go to their house, I would submerge myself in their culture, I would come home, I would have a Nigerian accent, I would become Nigerian as well. And it would happen with, you know, Mauritian people. You know, it's a beautiful thing, you know, but it. It stopped me being who I was because I would just assimilate to be the same as everyone I was around. And it is a really strange quirk, but I found out the other day, actually on a podcast, that people, not just neurodivergent people, do it, but people that have had trauma. So me as well, from a young age, can do it as well without even being neurodivergent. So. So because their personality hasn't formed before the trauma, they then just adapt to be like other people. So it isn't just a neurodivergent thing. It can be a trauma thing. Or of course you can be neurodivergent and have trauma, because that. That's a thing.
- [31:32]
B
Yeah, you can experience one without the other, but there's. There's often a big overlap, isn't there? And I think the danger is, like we were saying earlier, is that when you spend years, for whatever reason, masking or people pleasing or adapting to everybody around you, it does become difficult to work out what you actually think and what your needs are. Like, what you actually need. And then we might do things like hiding our sensory discomfort or I've ones that I've done in the past. Forcing eye contact or just pretending that I'm okay and I've got energy and my brain isn't gone completely like mushy and foggy and zoning and agreeing in a meeting that I'm actually present when I'm not, you know. And I think that we do a lot of those things, hiding all of those things because we don't want to other people to think bad of us. I agree with this.
- [32:23]
A
So for me, like the epiphany was a couple of years ago I, I lived in Egypt. Yes, I'm a woman of many stories. So I lived in Egypt and when I was there, you know, all my life I've been stressed, stressed up to my eyeballs. I can't even explain. Like I just have the worst stress ever. You know, I started graying at 20 years old and I feel like it's stress related. I had three little boys and they were all about the same age and you know, there's a small age gap. They was all very loud, all very neurodivergent. I spent their whole childhood stressed at them and I feel guilty for that. But it's because they, you know, they clocked my sensorina so much. You know, I was constantly, constantly stressed. And when I was living in Egypt a couple of years ago, I started to become more stressed than I've ever been by. Like I'd stand on a bit of water and there'd be a bit water on my sock and I'd just freak out. Someone would turn the light on and I'd freak out and before I would just get angry. But it reached some point where I started to have a breakdown and I had to move back from Egypt because it's a very sensory place, Egypt. There's a lot of beeping, there's a lot of mess, you know, it's a lot Egypt. I moved back from Egypt because I couldn't cope. And when I got here I realized that I'd reached my penultimate point of masking. And you know, even though I was masking and I was still getting a bit angry when sensory things triggered me, I was unable to mask anymore. I've reached and I thought it, I can't mask anymore, you know, my sock is wet and I'm gonna just have a full on breakdown. I'm not just gonna get a little bit angry. I couldn't mask anymore. And that's what I've realized and that's why I've had to become so honest. I've had to start calling myself Ellie, all dhd because people are thinking Ellie the freaking weirdo. And I'm like, no, no, no. I'm having a meltdown because I've got a wet sock because I'm Ellie or dhd and you know, I've had to own it and I've had to learn the language. And I'm so passionate about sharing that with everyone because I do think there comes a point where you just think it. I can't mask anymore.
- [34:28]
B
Yeah, I think I'm kind of there with you right now. The, the kind of I can't mask anymore. I'm, I, I'm at the point now where I understand myself very well and I know when I'm masking now. Whereas perhaps before I wouldn't know that I was doing it, if that makes sense. I wouldn't know. I would just be doing it. And then coming home, like, why do I feel so awful and anxious? I need to lay down after work.
- [34:51]
A
You know, like if you go to work work or if you go on a social date or, you know, like something and then you come home and you want to sleep for three weeks. And I used to think, what the. Yeah, with me, like, I've just been out for half an hour. Why am I so tired now? I know it's because I spent that whole time being someone else.
- [35:08]
B
Yeah. Hiding it or hiding all those discomfort and suppressing all your sensory needs. And then when you get home, it's like, I need a dark room. I need no sound, no one interrupts
- [35:15]
A
me because, like, I used to, like. So light for me is a big thing. The big light in the house, you know, I don't like it. And you know, the electric and I, I'd have the lights off all the time. I remember even that something happened in my house once and the police had to come. And the police come in the front room. This was about 10 years ago. And it was, you know, it's pitch black outside, it was 11 o' clock at night. And all that I had on was the light of the telly. And they said, Shelly, because that's my real name, they said, shelly, couldn't we turn the lights on? And I said, no, I'm using the light of the telly. And they were looking at me like I'm insane. And I thought, I can't be asked to explain to them, like, you know, I will have a freak out if we put the light on. I just Said, no, you know, I can't do it now. You know, the electrician come a couple of months ago and he said, do you mind if we put the light on? And I said, nope. I said I'm autistic and I'll freak out. You know, I've had to start embracing myself and just. I get it now. I get why I don't like these things. It's not to, I'm a weirdo. It's. There is a reason.
- [36:14]
B
Yeah. And for those listening that aren't quite there yet or able to kind of be so open about themselves, like it's, you know, it is a pro, it is kind of a process like discovery and you will get to that point where you feel able to sort. I can proudly say I am autistic now. Like I, I don't hold any shame
- [36:34]
A
or genders and stuff like that. Don't you? I think, yeah. That's another thing. So before years ago I would never have worn ear defenders. I would have been like, no, you know, people are going to think there's something wrong with me. I'm, you know, I'm not that autistic that I have to wear rear defenders. But now I would, I don't give a mate.
- [36:52]
B
Yeah. I'm, I'm like, oh my gosh, you've got the pharmacy. There is not any way I am not taking my headphones with me and I, I wear them the whole entire time because it's, it's noisy. I put music through them so I can't hear anybody else. I stand in the queue and I rock for regulation and I'm just like, looks like I'm dancing to my music but I don't even care because I'm like, it's the only way I can do it without coming out and being completely dysregulated from this 10 minute queue. But I'd rather that now than like be myself then, then not. But it's taken a long time to, to get there, to be comfortable with myself, to be able to understand myself and to also know when I'm asking and know when I'm people pleasing and the people pleasing and RSD side of things I still do now, I still suffer with now. But I suppose, I suppose knowing it and asking the person, did you mean it this way and feeling comfortable to say those things that makes such a difference to how much it affects you
- [37:45]
A
see I, I have a lot of guilt because you know, I started having my children very young and you know, I didn't know anything about Neurodivergence, you know, I only found out was neurodivergent because my children were neurodivergent and I started finding out about that and you know, all their childhood they would do things like stim and you know, like do unusual things and I'd say don't do that because I do stuff like that and I don't want. I got bullied for it. So I try and stamp that out of them. So I've made my kids over the years and obviously unintentionally, it was through love, you know, I, I didn't want them to be bullied like I was for some stimming or rocking backwards and forwards. So, you know, I, you know, before I become aware of neurodivergence, I tried to make my kids put on a mask as well.
- [38:31]
B
Yeah, but you don't know what you don't know, do you?
- [38:33]
A
I've met a lot of people that felt like this. It's because we're only finding out and now I'm finding out at 40, I feel like, mate, I even made my kids mask. Like I should have been telling them be proud to stim. But you know, I was just trying to suffer, you know.
- [38:47]
B
You didn't even know what stim was, what the word stimulus. So exactly.
- [38:53]
A
I thought it's something weird. I do. They've learned it off me and that they're not getting bullied for it. So when, as soon as they start steaming, I'll be like, stop doing that. People are watching and I feel so guilty for it now. But that's why knowledge is power and I'm so passionate about, you know, even if you're not neurodivergent, come and join our crew if you've got neurodivergent child because I want you to learn from, for the sake of your child.
- [39:19]
B
Yeah, yeah. And also you know that I think that's why we created the AUDHD and then some membership because we're very, both very passionate about giving people accessible resources when they can't access maybe diagnosis, they can't afford to pay for coaching and one to one support. So having some resources and some bits and a community and ways to understand yourself and your child for, for, you know, really good value I think is really important but especially for DHD because there is so little out there on AUDHD and it's such a complex, complex pairing of conditions. Yeah.
- [39:56]
A
Podcast the other day with a clinician. Right. I sound like a bloody broken record. I went on a podcast but I Went on a podcast with a clinician the other day and she said, I've been A clinician for 30 years, she's in America. And she said, I've never, never heard the term or dhd. Can you explain what it is to me?
- [40:10]
B
And, and it's not diagnostic, is it?
- [40:12]
A
But it's definitely not a diagnostic thing. I said, it's becoming more apparent lately. And I said, to be honest, I'm going to be real with you. Aud is some. Because autism and ADHD are two things that should never, ever, ever be paired together in the same body. And you know, it's health.
- [40:29]
B
It's an absolute paradox, like conflict all the time, isn't it? In one body, in one brain.
- [40:33]
A
I feel like I got a two personalities fighting inside one person. It's. I think it's horrific. You know, it's made me who I am. I'm, I'm proud and you know where I am today. But it is a ball ache, you
- [40:45]
B
know, but there are things that you can do and there are ways you can support yourself and there are things. It's really, it is really challenging. And you know, that doesn't take away how challenging it is to manage your dhd. But, but you know, if you have the right support and the right community and the right resources and, and things like that, then there are ways that you can sort of start to learn how to understand yourself and just have that more. A lot of it is understanding, awareness and just having compassion for yourself and saying, oh well, I did it like that. Oh well, that's how my brain works. Oh well, I'm not saying sorry for that.
- [41:15]
A
Yeah, it takes a long time to get to that. Sometimes it does. And a lot of self work and not everyone's there yet or on that journey, but exactly since meeting you, spent specifically, oh my God, this is making me feel a bit.
- [41:29]
B
Oh no, she's gonna be sick now. She's gonna send me the sick face emoji.
- [41:32]
A
Meeting you and you know, surrounding myself with neurodivergent community. It's self work has been happening for me even more than it ever has because, you know, I've accepted myself because I'm like, if I can be kind to you for getting triggered, then I can be bloody kind to myself. I think that's why I'm so, you know when someone says, oh, I've just got a diagnosis and I feel really, really alone. I'm like, listen mate, it's 99p. I'm not trying to sell you anything because believe Me, I put a lot more.
- [42:00]
B
You're not making much money.
- [42:01]
A
Yeah, yeah, I'm not making more money than, you know, believe me, you know, I'm doing more work. But you know, come and join our community and be surrounded by people because you're not. When we started our group of 50,000, we thought it was just us. We were like, oh, you know, maybe this is an all DHD symptom, but maybe it's just us.
- [42:19]
B
Well, we didn't expect it to go. We, I mean that's our free group, the 50,001. But we didn't, we didn't expect making money. Yeah. Otherwise, you know, I don't think we'll be mentioning it the 99p so much. But no, but yeah, the, the, the support group. We didn't think that it would, there would be so many of us and lately there's been a huge influx in people that are realizing they have ADHD in addition to autism or the other way around or they're realizing it because
- [42:46]
A
they're children as well. You know, it's caused them a lot of. I'm getting messages every day from people that like, oh my God, Ellie, I thought I was the only one. You're speaking my soul, you know, and I feel like, oh poor bugger. Like someone else has gone through the same thing that I've gone through. But I'm so glad that we're now building and I don't know many communities that, that you can be yourself in. You know, you can go to therapy and you can pay millions of pounds for it, you know what I mean? Or you can, you know, you can join things for people in the world. But I'm so proud of this down to earth community that we've built. Like if you're, if you are lonely at 3am and you feel like, you know, oh my God, I've done something I'm really embarrassed about and I keep overthinking it. Pop onto our forum and post it and there will be someone there that will make you feel better or give you a worse story. I think it's so good that we've got such a down to earth community that will be there for each other. They're lovely people. I've met some lovely people.
- [43:40]
B
People. Yeah. And also we've got our monthly support group, haven't we, that's actually online.
- [43:45]
A
Yeah.
- [43:45]
B
That you can actually meet other ADHD adults and ADHD adults. And that's really nice too because me and Ellie just waffle on. So you might not want to Come. But we, we just talk about a topic and then people just join in. And they join in on the chat or they just listen or. But everyone goes away feeling a bit more grounded and like they've learned something. Something. Or they're like, oh my gosh, I don't go away.
- [44:09]
A
Like, I feel like, yes, I am all dhd and yes, I'm going to take over the world.
- [44:14]
B
And yes, I also struggle to brush my teeth.
- [44:18]
A
Yeah, you find out a lot of things like that because one woman, she messaged me after the support group and she said, oh my God, other people can't brush their teeth. And I was like, yeah, yeah.
- [44:27]
B
I mean, other people don't shower. Yeah, we've digressed from people pleasing.
- [44:33]
A
Oh, I'm so sorry. Right. And get back to my questions. Okay. The questions won't make sense now because we've discussed everything, but I'm gonna go for it. Do you think many neurodivergent people become experts at reading other people's emotions while completely ignoring their own?
- [44:48]
B
Oh my gosh, that's such. That question is so relatable for me because yes is the answer. Absolutely. We do. I am so tuned in to the tiniest, littlest changes in someone's, like I said, body language, facial expression, tone, and whether they seem quieter than usual, like just, I almost sense the energy in a room and the vibe in the room or that person just by looking at them.
- [45:13]
A
And a lot of us are full at times. We were magic. Or because of our pattern recognition, we're empaths. Yeah, exactly that.
- [45:22]
B
But we scan and we are, we are very hyper vigilant. So we are constantly scanning our environment. Constantly scanning for, I don't know, frets is the right. Right word, but yeah, expectations and, and, and what people are thinking and how we're supposed to behave. Yes. Yeah, that. We were so tuned into it. And because of that, I think we don't notice our own needs so much. We don't always notice when we, we are completely exhausted or overwhelmed or we ride through it.
- [45:53]
A
We put, we press the like, override button.
- [45:57]
B
Yes. Or we know that. Or the other side of it is we know we're becoming overwhelmed, but we almost cannot. We almost can't stop because we almost feel like we should be able to do something or, or we're expected to do something. Yeah. So we push through it and you're
- [46:11]
A
like, get off the loop. You're stuck in a loop. Ellie, get up. The loop. Stand up.
- [46:16]
B
Get up. Stop checking your social media. Ellie, get up. Get up.
- [46:20]
A
It's really good. It's like a body doubling thing. But we're doing nervous systems, I think. Are we doing nervous systems next month? So we will return to that because that's a really important.
- [46:30]
B
Yeah. Nervous system regulation. I think that's going to be a big topic for our. In our hub next month. Some resources around, you know, relaxation and how we regulate. So that would be really good. If anybody wants to join. I would join for that topic.
- [46:44]
A
Have you, you know, I've said I've become Nigerian and Mauritian at some point because of people pleasing. Have you ever realized that you had completely lost yourself because you're so busy making everybody else comfortable that you become something that you're not even in relationships and stuff. Has that happened to you or with friends?
- [47:02]
B
You know, I've never really had it in relationships, interestingly, I think like I've not had the experience of. Well, maybe a little bit. Maybe a little bit. But not to the point that I can say like I know your experiences have been slightly different to mine in terms of the relationships, but I think that for me this particular question come came up when I had a child and I think I lost myself when I became a mum because I, I put my child. Which you should do. I'm not saying you shouldn't, but I put my child in front of absolutely everything else that I didn't acknowledge my own needs at all. And I think, yes, put your child first, but equally you need to stay regulated to be a good parent on your own.
- [47:41]
A
Gas mask.
- [47:43]
B
Yeah, exactly. Exactly that. And I would push myself, I would automatically agree to play dates, going out to all school events, social events, anything that I thought, oh no, they need to go and do this. And felt completely burnt out and not able to do anything for myself. This was before I knew I was neurodivergent though. But I think that that particularly for me stands out in terms of people. It's a different kind of people pleasing. It's more of an expectation of myself around how I am as a parent. So I don't know if that answers the question completely, but that's kind of
- [48:14]
A
what made me think of. So I've come with an analogy I've learned lately about a hula hoop. I don't know if I've told you, I think I've told the whole world.
- [48:21]
B
You've told me about 20 times but you mentioned it.
- [48:24]
A
Do you mind if I'd say it again? So just for anyone that hasn't heard this analogy, if you're An Antarctica. Antarctica. So basically there's two hula hoops, Right. You're in one hula hoop and I'm in the upper hula hoop. You know, the ones that you spin around your body when you're a kid. Right?
- [48:42]
B
Yeah.
- [48:42]
A
And then you say to me, ellie, I need help. Get out of your hula hoop and help me. So me being me, I will always abandon my hula hoop and come and help you. But I've realized lately that actually that's not fair. Fair on everyone else around me. So I can sling you something out of, you know, some supplies or food out of my hula hoop and, you know, you can collect it. But I should never, ever abandon my hula hoop. I thought if I didn't abandon my hula hoop, that makes me a really shitty person. Because nice people abandon your hoop, their hula hoops and set themselves on fire for other people. But actually that's not true because all them times that I was setting myself on fire for other people, people trying to please them or accommodate them, I was affecting my kids, my family, my finances. You know, you have to put on your own gas mask first. So that's what, that's what made me think of it. You need to put on your own gas mask at first. Because if I keep abandoning my own hula hoop for other people, which I've done my whole life, and people pleasing, it's going to have a knock on effect on every aspect of my life, even my kids that I love so much.
- [49:45]
B
Of course. Yeah. Because when you become, when you become so focused on being supportive or, or putting yourself into supporting somebody else, you forget that you're also part of that relationship as well.
- [49:58]
A
Yeah. And I thought that would make you a bad person. If you don't leave your hula hoop. I'd be like, but I'm a good person. Of course I'm going to lose my hula hoop. Leave my hula hoop. But that's not the case.
- [50:09]
B
And actually people pleasing in the moment can look like you're being kind or that you're a really kind person, which you are. But inside, over time, it will completely lead to that sense.
- [50:20]
A
Build resentment as well.
- [50:21]
B
And resentment. Yeah. Because you feel like you're having to like your own needs to that person.
- [50:27]
A
Yeah. What boundaries have you learned that's genuinely changed your life, Tash?
- [50:35]
B
Oh, quite a few over the last few years. I, I think in relation to this, one of the biggest changes I've made is. Well, there's two. One, I don't need to be like other people. And that's really big one. You know, I used to be like looking out the window going, look at that person all wrapped, packed up and ready for the beach with all their counting chairs, all their sisters.
- [50:55]
A
Haven't you. So did you sometimes find yourself comparing, you know, you. I've got sisters as well, and I found that a really hard one because. Because I'd always be comparing myself to my sisters and people around me.
- [51:07]
B
I mean, not necessarily my sisters, although I do sometimes I used to with my younger sister because she travels a lot and I'm not able to do that because I've got a lot of sensory difficulties. But just generally people who seem to have it all together that are already, that take their kids out on these camping trips or beaches all day, they've got everything ready and they look, I can't do it, you know, and, and I really struggle to do that for an hour in the busy, hot environment. And I think that that one of the biggest things is, is in my boundary, in my own head is, is not spiraling and being like, oh, look at that person's going out. Oh, you know, that's okay. I'm going to shut my curtain and I'll be okay with that and stay in, you know, but. And I think another boundary is, is probably learning that I don't have to respond or jump at something straight away or at. When I do analyze something or someone's tone or someone's facial expression, giving myself a pause of a few minutes to go away, process it and then ask a friend, ask someone, ask, ask for clarity. That's communication, especially in relationships. Like if, if you're, if you're. Quite often if we're, if we're, we've got an RSD sort of spiral, we could be quite blunt because we're uncomfortable and we can be like, what's that mean? Are you mad with me? And it can be quite defensive to the other person. Whereas if you pause and you say, I'm not quite sure what that meant. Yeah.
- [52:24]
A
Then that is the way you say it. Because I think I spent all my childhood and teenage years, my parents thought, God, she's a defensive cow and she's argumentative because the way I'd ask is very sharp. But now I kind of, I'm not embarrassed up. And that's because. Probably because I was embarrassed to ask. So I'd be like, what do you mean? You know, something like that. But now I'm not embarrassed to ask. And I just say, do you mind if I ask you what you mean by that, like in a really unconfrontational way. Because I'm a weirdo.
- [52:51]
B
You don't say that on the end, though.
- [52:53]
A
I do.
- [52:53]
B
Of course. You.
- [52:54]
A
Come on, Tash, you know me. I always say things like that about myself, but, you know, I'm okay with that.
- [52:59]
B
But you're not a weirdo.
- [53:01]
A
But I like it.
- [53:02]
B
Oh, okay, fine. If you like it.
- [53:04]
A
If someone.
- [53:04]
B
If you like it, keep it. Yeah.
- [53:06]
A
If someone listening today suddenly realized they've spent years people pleasing, how would you encourage them to slowly, slowly. Because, you know, it is a long journey. How can you slowly, slowly stop people pleasing and taking that mask off?
- [53:22]
B
I think it's such a big topic and it's such. It's individual for everybody and. And a lot of it is. I think the. Probably the first step or the first part of this is awareness, noticing awareness. And that's the same for so many things. Noticing when we're masking, being aware, when we're people pleasing, when it happens, why it happens, what triggers us, you know, so paying attention to the moments when you automatically do say yes, or you apologize or you analyze and not stopping yourself doing it, but just being like, well aware. Yeah. Why is this happening? Why do I feel like this in this situation? Why. Why do I feel like I'm not able to let this person manage their own feelings? Or why do I feel like they're. I'm responsible for their feelings? And. And like I said earlier, one practical step that's really helped me, and it's a really simple one, is delaying your answer. So, like, if somebody says something, instead of just saying yes straight away and being agreeable, have a script, a basic script, you know, like, let me have a think about that. I just need to check something. And that gives you like a pause between the.
- [54:28]
A
You could do the same. When someone says, you know, if I said to you, tash, you want to go to the beach next week? And I text it to you, you know, I would feel pressure to text that person back straight away and give them a yes or no answer, because I don't want to take up any of their time and stuff like that. But you could do the same with that, couldn't you? You could take a pause and think about it. You don't have to respond to everyone's needs straight away.
- [54:50]
B
Absolutely. Text messaging is even more so because you. They're not there to see that you've seen the message. So you can. You just is creating like a bit of stuff. Space head Space between what they're asking and your response. Because your natural automatic response will be to say yes and agree. But actually, if you take a bit of a pause between the two, you can go away and think, do I actually want to do this? Is this, Is this. Am I doing it for me or am I doing it for them? And then.
- [55:16]
A
And all people say no.
- [55:18]
B
You know, they do go along with
- [55:20]
A
everything, you know, so you can. You can say no. I've got some. Some bonus questions, but they're quick fire. Okay. So you can just answer yes or no or one or two words. Okay. Do you apologize a lot?
- [55:36]
B
Not anymore.
- [55:37]
A
Okay. Yeah, me either. But I did spend a lot of time.
- [55:42]
B
I used to. Or sometimes I might apologize. If I've been a bit blunt, I might be aware. I might say, oh, you know, I'm sorry that I was blunt. This is the reason why. And I can put into words now, like, because I was feeling overwhelmed, over apologize.
- [55:58]
A
These are quick fire questions. Quick fire them.
- [56:00]
B
Okay. Okay. No.
- [56:02]
A
Okay. Do texts sometimes give you anxiety or phone calls?
- [56:07]
B
Phone calls, yes. And I think it's to do with the un. The unpredictability more than anything. If something was unpredictable, especially a phone call, especially a podcast that has bonus questions. Yes, I get anxious and why do
- [56:23]
A
compliments ever make you feel uncomfortable?
- [56:25]
B
Oh, my God. So much so. I feel so weird when people compliment me. Someone was complimenting me yesterday and I just didn't know where to look and I had this weird half smile and
- [56:33]
A
I was just like, that's why I always tell you how rubbish you are. So I don't have to make you feel like that.
- [56:38]
B
Yeah, but that's. That's good because I can take that.
- [56:40]
A
Yeah. Why do we over explain ourselves or do you find yourself over explaining yourself?
- [56:44]
B
Sometimes I over explain a lot. And I think that's probably just from wanting to make sure we're, you know, we're understood and, and giving the context for that so people don't can understand and not be upset with us. I tend to start the story right at the beginning. Someone asked me a question. Hence, these bonus questions don't work for me because they're really short and I need to explain from the beginning why we might explain over explain ourselves.
- [57:08]
A
I'm not going to do that, but I just thought it's been a really heavy conversation. Conversation. Let me just do some quick fire questions so that I don't talk. Because that's another thing. When I get off podcasts, I get really bad rse because I'm like, oh, I've interrupted too much. So I thought I'll just give you some questions that you can answer yourself. But now I'm talking and I need to be quiet. Okay, so basically we are nearly at the end. You will be relieved to know. Was it any better than you thought it would be?
- [57:35]
B
Yes. Whenever I get into a podcast, I. I'm okay. It's just. And some people listening probably relate to this. I find starting something really difficult like
- [57:45]
A
that's unpredictable, like the executive dysfunction.
- [57:47]
B
Did you like our last month's theme? Yeah, but just starting something I'm anxious about whether it's going into a phone call or a podcast or a video or anything.
- [57:58]
A
And endings as well.
- [58:00]
B
Yeah, and also endings, I think. And I know you're. You're particularly awkward around phone call endings. And. Okay, bye.
- [58:09]
A
I think you're gonna say, oh, I love you, and I'm gonna just have it phone down. What if you say I can't cope with it? Like, you know, the endings of conversations make me very anxious, so I just can't. I can't deal with it. So I just slam the phone down. So if I ever. I do it to clients as well. I'm really sorry. I'm sorry if you've ever lost any business because of it. But I do do it to clients, but I do explain why I'm doing it.
- [58:29]
B
Yeah. Again, it's the having the words and just explaining who you are and not being ashamed of that.
- [58:35]
A
And I think that's why they like, you know, I think people like us because, you know, we just have to be honest. You can be honest. And that's what we're doing. Okay, so I'm gonna ask you. This month, our topic is rsd, People pleasing. You've made a lovely resource. Can you talk to me about the resource? It's printable, it's fillable. What's it about?
- [58:59]
B
Yeah, so the main, the main resource I've made is the. The monthly one that we give out in the beginning of the month is the. The workbook. And the. It's a PDF like you say, it's downloadable, it's printable, it's fillable. It's a self paced workbook on rsd, explaining what RSD is, helping you map your triggers and giving you some strategies as to what might help. But throughout the month as well, we also do other resources related to the theme. So weekly resources.
- [59:26]
A
Yeah, it's like three, three resources a week, isn't there?
- [59:30]
B
Yeah, they're audios. Whether it's relaxation Whether it's audio, insights around RSD or the topic of the
- [59:36]
A
month and they're in the subscribers hub. Right.
- [59:39]
B
Yes. Scripts around rsd. So it might be some scripts that you can say back when you're feeling those feelings are coming up for you, or text scripts or people pleasing. We'll probably do a resource on people pleasing. So we do a selection as well as.
- [59:53]
A
As well as the big comprehensive monthly,
- [59:56]
B
printable, fillable book for 99p a month.
- [60:00]
A
We have we got any think coming up this month I think we've got free. So every month we have three things, don't we? We have a hypnotherapy. I actually know what the hypnotherapy is about this month. It's about sleep.
- [60:13]
B
Oh, that's going to be a really good one. Yeah.
- [60:15]
A
Hypnotherapy class next. I think it's in about three to four weeks. We've got hypnotherapy class this month. We've got a webinar.
- [60:23]
B
Yep. We do our executive functioning webinar on the. Oh, is that the first one? No, that's the support group. Is it the last Wednesday of every month? I think we do the webinar and
- [60:34]
A
also we have a Zoom. I say support group but actually it's more supportive for me than I think that anyone that. And we've got a monthly support group on zoom that is all optional, all cameras on, cameras off, whatever you want to do, you don't have to come to any of them. But if you're part of the membership, you know, we will always send you the links and you know, say, come on, you know, you're welcome to join us.
- [60:56]
B
Absolutely. It's a lovely group and it's very supportive and quite validating and we're just
- [61:01]
A
getting our website up and running, aren't we? Our Audi hd.
- [61:04]
B
Oh, yes, we are. So check out our website. It's
- [61:08]
A
today. She's got three more days left to make it.
- [61:11]
B
Not today. Well, this. Yes, because this will probably be uploaded today, but yeah, it's half made, so. But soon we're going to have courses and webinars and all sorts of things on there for all DHD adults. So keep an eye out.
- [61:23]
A
Yes, amazing. That's www.audhd and then some.com.com. thank you so much for Tasha joining us today. I know that you absolutely love freaking hated every second of it and now the audience are getting RSD because of you.
- [61:38]
B
Tash.
- [61:38]
A
No, I'm joking. We really hope today send me nice
- [61:41]
B
comments Anybody send me nice comments, please?
- [61:44]
A
Yeah, do you know what? It would really help if if you've enjoyed this podcast or found it helpful, please leave Tasha a comment underneath because
- [61:51]
B
you know my confidence.
- [61:53]
A
It will boost her confidence. Although she might think that you're lying. She'd be like, are they lying? We really hope today's conversation has helped you realize that you're not too sensitive and you're definitely not alone. Because for many neurodivergent people, people pleasing isn't a personality trait. It's a survival strategy that developed after years of feeling misunderstood, criticized or rejected. The good news is that it doesn't have to stay that way and we can work on it by learning to set boundaries. And learning to set boundaries doesn't make you selfish. Putting yourself first sometimes this doesn't make you a bad person. And your worth has never depended upon how much of yourself you give away to keep other people happy. If you'd like to explore this topic in more depth, this month's workbook is inside the LEH or DHD Subscribers hub. It's all about RSD and people pleasing with reflective exercises, gentle tools and lots of information. If you've enjoyed today's episode, we'd be so grateful if you if you follow the podcast, left a review, or shared this episode with someone who might need to hear it. They don't need to be neurodivergent. They might just need to understand. You can find all my links, including the podcast, the community support groups, in my link tree. Until next time, remember that you were never too much. You've always been enough. Take care and we'll see you next time. All DHD and then some. If Tasha ever comes back.
- [63:17]
B
Yes.
- [63:19]
A
Thank you so much. Listen, guys. Thank you, Tash.
- [63:21]
B
Bye bye.