← Becker’s Healthcare Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to the Becker's Healthcare Podcast. I'm Chris Sosa, your host. I'm thrilled today to be joined by two guests, pediatricians Dr. Shannon Hayes and Dr. Beverly Lee, who both practice at Texas Children's Pediatrics. Beverly and Shannon, thank you so much for joining us today. How are you?
- [00:16]
B
Great, thank you.
- [00:17]
C
We're great. Thanks for having us.
- [00:19]
A
So wonderful. First, I just want to give you both an opportunity to introduce yourselves. Shannon, could you tell us a little about your background?
- [00:27]
B
Sure. I attended Baylor College of Medicine, which is also where my little colleague here went to, and then I went and did my residency and internship at Texas Children's Hospital. I initially started private practice, and I did that for 12 years before coming over to Texas Children's Hospital, and I've been in the same practice since then.
- [00:49]
A
Thank you, Shannon. All right, so, Beverly, tell us a bit about your background.
- [00:52]
C
I am a native Houstonian as well. I went to Baylor College of Medicine for med school similar to Dr. Hayes, and also did my training at Texas Children's Hospital. After residency, I did do a chief resident year, which is an additional year of training at Texas Children's right at the start of the COVID pandemic. And then I joined Dr. Hayes practice, Texas Children's Pediatrics, Braisewood, which we are at right now. And I have been working here as an attending for the past five years.
- [01:24]
A
Excellent. Thank you for giving our audience an insight into how your careers have flowed so far. We'll get into more of that. Of course. The arc of this story that we're going to touch on today is just so very heartwarming because it is a great example of how mentorship just is able to proliferate throughout not only medical community, but the patients that you serve. I want to give you both a chance to explain and tell us all about how you know each other and and why it's important to be mentors to not only each other, Shannon, you to Beverly, but Beverly yourself to other budding physicians. So, Shannon, why don't you take us through how you came to know Beverly?
- [02:04]
B
Yeah. So when I was in practice initially, Beverly came to me as a first year medical student. We have a program at the time was called Patient Physician Society. It's when first year medical students come out every other week for a year to a generally primary care practice. And the intent is literally to learn how to do physical exam. Each week they come with a different system that they've been studying, and we learn how to do that physical exam. They come to our office, we help Guide them through how that works. She did a year with me as that student. A few years later, she came again as a medical student that was doing her core pediatric rotation. And she spent two weeks with me, and I loved her every time, asked her to try to come back when she could, and she did. And then when she started residency, she actually joined my office as her continuity clinic. And that entails residents come in and work in your clinic once a week for three years. So they literally learn the basics of pediatrics. They learn everything in the hospital. Especially when you're associated with a great hospital like Texas Children's Youth, you have such volume that in the hospital you see such acute care with very chronically ill kids, sick kids. And so part of the residency program is to come out to the community, into general pediatrician offices and really learn the everyday medicine of pediatrics. And so she was my resident for three years. And the whole time, as she was nearing towards her finished date, I was harassing my administration to make sure that I could hire her and she could join my practice, because that's all I wanted. And she did. And we've been working together for five years, and it's been amazing.
- [03:55]
A
Well, I'm so glad you got that with Shannon. So, Beverly, from your point of view, what drew you to pediatrics in general and to then to Texas Children's?
- [04:04]
C
Sure. I knew from a very early age I wanted to do medicine. Pediatrics was just a natural fit. I've always loved children. I love taking care of them. I think pediatrics is such a unique fields in that we get to partner with the patient and their families from the time they are born to the time they launch into adulthood. And it is that longitudinal relationship that drew me into pediatrics and keeps me in pediatrics. We love the fields. We love our patients, we love our families. I have loved working with Dr. Hayes since it was eight years of my training with her and now five years out of training. So we've been together for a long time. I viewed my time with Dr. Hayes now looking back more like an apprenticeship, if anything. And I think that's super rare in medicine these days to have that true apprenticeship type of relationship. So I remember learning the bread and butter basic physical exam when I was a first year and then getting on to the nuances of how to form a differential, how to form treatment plans. But I feel like those eight years were instrumental for me informing the type of pediatrician I am today. I remember just taking mental notes of everything she did, how she did a physical Exam how she spoke to patients and their families, anticipatory guidance, how to create that bond and trust with families. It's really helpful now as partners and as colleagues, because we share a lot of patience. When I'm not available, my patients will see her. When she's not available, her patients will see me. And it creates a good, seamless continuity of care. Because we practice so similarly and we know what each other are thinking, we can. Often, patients really don't notice a difference when one of us cannot be there for certain reasons. So it's caused a lot of just harmony in our clinic and in our patient care.
- [06:05]
A
Beverly, I'm so glad, in particular, you mentioned this aspect of apprenticeship and mentorship. It's such a wonderful point. In any industry, including my own, including yours. It's one thing for you to walk into any sort of career and be handed a playbook, have someone say, oh, here are the things you should do. You could read a book, watch a video, whatever. It's entirely different thing to have someone say, you know what? I'm gonna help you out, because it's important, you know, and not only does it help me, but more importantly, it helps you as the learner. Right. So as we get into that, so for you, Shannon, so as a mentor, how would you define that and what does it mean to you?
- [06:46]
B
Well, I had a really good mentor myself. And so when I first started out, I had a physician named Nancy Byrd, and she was my mentor for three years. I was also in her continuity clinic, and then I went to work for her, and it was from her that I learned how important mentorship was, because I learned every aspect of physical exam that I know was from that. From Dr. Bird. And I recently got to visit her in the hospital. She came into town for the. For a hospital issue, unfortunately. And I actually got to thank her and tell her how amazing she was for me and. And how much it meant to me that she spent so much time and effort with me. And it really made me kind of appreciate even more my bond with Beverly, because we really. It's a special bond that you get. It's important to me with mentorship in primary care, especially in pediatrics, that, yes, I'm helping her to teach her how to do physical exam, how to do differentials, how to diagnose and treat patients. But equally important to me is how are you a working mom? How are you a wife? How are you shuttling back and forth between clinic and going to teacher lunches that you can't possibly make, but you're going to make because you're trying to be superhuman. And I think what I like to do with my residents is teach them that medicine is absolutely worth doing. And it's going to be hard, but I understand how hard it is, and I'm here to help you because really, it is a very rewarding lifestyle. But there are many times where you might want to quit because of how hard it is to raise a family and work at the same time and be married. And so I hopefully I'm here to be a pillar for them to go, okay, it can be done. We're good.
- [08:44]
A
Beverly, I want to ask you the same thing. I mean, your perspective is a little different because you've had Shannon as a mentor, but you're working toward becoming a mentor yourself. Actually, I take that back. I think you're there already. But I'm going to let you explain that what your journey as a mentor has been like, whether it's related to Shannon or otherwise.
- [09:05]
C
Yeah, that's a great question. I totally agree with what Dr. Hayes says. I think as much as it is important that we are learning from our mentors regarding the medicine, it is equally just as important to see our mentors as full persons in regards to their physicians. But they're also wives or husbands, mothers and fathers, members of their community. And I have learned so much from Dr. Hayes just watching her raise a family in the midst of being a pediatrician. So much so that I have followed her footsteps pretty much to a T. And I have raised my own two boys fresh out of residency and turning to her, whether it's as a patient or as a colleague, asking her the same questions, things like breastfeeding and balancing just work life in general. And so I think that mentorship component of the whole person is super important and something that I want to continue to do as well. Chief Residency gave me an introduction to mentorship. We are basically mentors to the residency program as a whole. That's really where I got my first taste as being a mentor. Instead of being the mentee, I would have many residents come into my office asking about career tracks, asking about different situations with co residents. And I understood the importance of being there for them, being a listening ear, providing the wisdom that I had or some guidance that I could provide. And at Texas Children's Pediatrics, not only in our clinic, but in many clinics here, we value having learners in our clinic. I think it is extremely important to have them. We have first through fourth, fourth year medical students, but we also have residents who are with us for their continuity clinic, like Dr. Hayes mentioned for us for three years. And mentorship can often feel like we are giving ourselves to them, but they give just as much back to us. We benefit from them each and every day that we have them. They are often the most up to date on evidence based medicine, being in the hospital and getting all these lectures about what's coming out. And so they keep us fresh with the evidence, they keep us up to date and they keep us accountable to doing things that are scientific and evidence based. So we appreciate that. We also see their youthful joy and passion and why they came into medicine, especially those young med students who are just eager to learn. And it reminds us of why we are here. We love having learners at Texas Children's Pediatrics is a core component of our clinic and we hope to continue to do it for many more years.
- [12:03]
A
When you look at that learning environment at Texas Children's Pediatrics, this is a question for either or both of you. So how do you see that momentum building? I mean, I, I hope and I'm going to live and say that you are not the only two mentors at this organization. So how do you feel that that is, again, the momentum is building at your organization?
- [12:28]
C
You know, Texas Children's Pediatrics has really grown. We are in fact celebrating our 30 year anniversary, which is a huge milestone for us as an organization. We are extremely proud to be a part of this organization. And from the get go, Texas Children's Hospital has always been about being a teaching hospital. That was the way it was designed from the get go and it is carried hopefully into our everyday clinics and not just the hospital now because we are such a wide network of clinics throughout the Houston and Greater Texas area, actually. So we hope that we can be examples to other clinics saying that it can be done. It is hard when we have very busy, long days to think, how can I even incorporate a medical student in this type of environment where patients need to be seen at a quickly and efficiently. But we like to show them that it can be done. And patients tend to love having an extra learner. They are an extra set of ears, they're an extra set of eyes for us. They get to know our patients. And similarly to me and Dr. Hayes, I was here with eight years getting to know these patients. And so they have seen me grow up from a medical student onto being an attending now. And so it has been a rewarding experience. And we hope to continue showing other clinics, those who are hesitant about having a mentorship relationship with students that it is worth doing.
- [14:02]
A
Thank you both for sharing that. And hopefully the momentum does build within Texas Children's and other places, obviously in the medical community. I'm curious though, what is something. Because being a mentor lends itself to learning about yourself, no doubt. So what is something each of you has learned about yourself just from this whole process?
- [14:23]
B
Of course. So I would say that one of the things I've learned is that students come in residence, come from various different backgrounds and various different levels of training, even within the same year of training. And one of the things I've learned is that I have to become very adaptable to the differences in that level of training and in the differences in personalities. And over the years, I think I've just gotten better at that.
- [14:51]
A
I think that's a great tool to have, certainly for anyone, including a medical professional. Lastly, I simply want to give you both a chance to let our audience know what advice you give to someone who's considering a career in medicine.
- [15:06]
C
I think for myself thinking if I was that high school or college age student interested in pursuing medicine, I would remind them that this is a delayed gratification road. Medicine is a long journey and it can be very hard and challenging at times, but in the end it is extremely rewarding. There is not a career like it, especially us being in pediatrics, where you get to see healthy children flourish because of the integral role that you play in their lives. So it is worth it. But it is long and it is hard at times. And so I would say find a support system, whether that's family or friends or peers that want to do it with you or mentors along the way. I think that having that support to remind you of why you're doing it and to help you along the way is extremely important to keep you on the road and the journey that is medicine.
- [16:10]
B
Yeah, and I would say that I just think medicine is a calling. I mean, it's. It's a. You're either in it with your heart or you're not. And anyone that says they don't want to approach medicine these days because of the way medicine is or the problems in health care, I just think that's maybe it's not for them because this is really a gift to be able to be a physician and specifically to be a pediatrician. It's like being a superstar without all the fame. I mean, you walk in every room and they're like Dr. Hayes and they jump up in the air and come hug you. And so it feels like a rock star. Every single day of my of my work. Even when I'm dealing with really difficult situations, I can walk in the next room and just be greeted with this great hug. And it's such a meaningful career, and I just don't think there's anything like it. So I would never turn anyone away. I encourage everyone that's slightly interested in coming into it because it's a great field.
- [17:04]
A
Shannon Beverly, thank you again so much for spending some time with us and letting our audience know what your journey has been like with each other. As mentors, as pediatricians. We're going to love sharing the story, and we can't wait till the next time we get to connect with you.
- [17:20]
C
You.
- [17:21]
B
Thank you.
- [17:21]
C
Thanks for having us.