Becker's Healthcare Podcast: Interview with Dr. Michael Verdon
Date: December 20, 2025
Guest: Dr. Michael Verdon, DO, FACOS – Neurological Spine Surgeon, Transcendent Care, Inc.
Host: Carly Beam, Becker's Healthcare
Episode Overview
This episode features Dr. Michael Verdon, a seasoned neurological spine surgeon from Dayton, Ohio. Dr. Verdon shares insights from his 16 years in private and community-based spine care. The conversation focuses on post-pandemic changes in healthcare, the rise and application of AI in clinical practice, shifting care models toward value-based care, and challenges facing spine surgery and private practice moving into 2026.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Evolving Spine Care Landscape
- Impact of COVID-19 on Workforce (01:16–02:20)
- Significant workforce loss, especially among mid- and late-career professionals across all levels—clinicians, administration, lab, PT, and beyond.
- Quote: "Covid...gutted the workforce...there's been a huge experience drain out of the entire healthcare system from nursing to administration to lab pt, really all across the board." (01:18 - Dr. Verdon)
- Necessity for increased efficiency with fewer human resources—more process-oriented, less people-dependent systems.
- Significant workforce loss, especially among mid- and late-career professionals across all levels—clinicians, administration, lab, PT, and beyond.
2. Artificial Intelligence in Healthcare
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Emergence of Generative AI Tools (02:27–03:07)
- AI-driven documentation tools that capture clinician-patient interactions and generate notes and orders, currently more prevalent in primary care but with emerging applications in specialties.
- Quote: "The rise of generative AI in the clinical space...listen to the interaction between the patient physician and generate notes or potentially orders off of that." (02:28 - Dr. Verdon)
- AI-driven documentation tools that capture clinician-patient interactions and generate notes and orders, currently more prevalent in primary care but with emerging applications in specialties.
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Dr. Verdon’s Practice: Custom AI for Triage (03:12–04:07)
- Developed and implemented a software tool to triage patients via algorithmic assessment, improving appointment scheduling and surgical throughput.
- Outcomes include doubled clinic throughput and 10% higher surgical volume, with earlier intervention and better patient matching.
- Quote: "My throughput is increased by a factor of two...their surgical output volume is increased by 10%. So it's really pretty neat." (03:34 - Dr. Verdon)
- Developed and implemented a software tool to triage patients via algorithmic assessment, improving appointment scheduling and surgical throughput.
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Future of AI in Decision Support (04:26–05:48)
- Anticipates AI models tailored to specific hospital and community data, enabling truly localized care—especially beneficial for complex disease patterns that vary by region.
- Quote: "Almost each individual hospital will be its own data hub...treat the patients in your community with the disease states that they're presenting with based on your own clinical data." (04:54 - Dr. Verdon)
- Anticipates AI models tailored to specific hospital and community data, enabling truly localized care—especially beneficial for complex disease patterns that vary by region.
3. New Care and Reimbursement Models
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Shift to Value-Based, Population-Focused Care (06:02–07:22)
- Exploration of “access models” for Medicare—shift from fee-for-service to capitated, disease-state payment structures.
- Providers will need to “own” clinical and outcomes data, proving their care models’ effectiveness.
- Quote: "You're not in the healthcare business anymore, you're in the healthcare data business. And I feel like once people wake up to that...a lot of the relationships could change." (06:47 - Dr. Verdon)
- Exploration of “access models” for Medicare—shift from fee-for-service to capitated, disease-state payment structures.
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Quality and Standardization as Pathways for Growth (07:39–09:04)
- Emphasis on standardizing triage, evaluation, and care pathways to drive “quality volume” (high volumes with better outcomes).
- Calls for self-assessment and data marketing, inspired by fast food industry pivots.
- Quote: "We're in the data business, so we have to own what we're producing and then look at what we're doing and ask ourselves, is this really valuable?" (08:37 - Dr. Verdon)
- Emphasis on standardizing triage, evaluation, and care pathways to drive “quality volume” (high volumes with better outcomes).
4. Market Dynamics and Headwinds
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Consolidation and Cost Pressures (09:18–10:25)
- Increasing difficulty for independent practices—necessity of hospital partnerships due to economies of scale.
- Declining reimbursement rates make traditional clinic models unsustainable for many providers.
- Quote: "You can't do clinic because you'll lose money in the clinic, which seems crazy, but the reimbursement's gotten so low, the amount of volume you have to take on...is counterproductive." (09:42 - Dr. Verdon)
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Need for Model Innovation
- Fee-for-service is “no longer sustainable”—emphasizes adaptability as models continue to evolve.
5. The Key Disruptor on the Horizon
- Migration of Technology to the Clinic (10:42–11:51)
- Predicts the biggest disruptor to spine surgery in the next year will be transitioning technologies from the OR to the outpatient clinic.
- Surgeons who embrace these tools for patient management, workflow, and triage will gain the capacity and scalability to manage increased patient volumes.
- Quote: "Migration of technologies out of the operating room and into the clinic...the volume coming in cannot be handled by a human anymore. There needs to be some element of machine learning or identification to parse through the silver tsunami that's coming at all of us." (10:42 & 11:30 - Dr. Verdon)
- Predicts the biggest disruptor to spine surgery in the next year will be transitioning technologies from the OR to the outpatient clinic.
Memorable Quotes & Moments
- "Covid...gutted the workforce...there's been a huge experience drain out of the entire healthcare system." (01:18 - Dr. Verdon)
- "My throughput is increased by a factor of two...their surgical output volume is increased by 10%." (03:34 - Dr. Verdon)
- "Almost each individual hospital will be its own data hub...treat the patients in your community with the disease states that they're presenting..." (04:54 - Dr. Verdon)
- "You're not in the healthcare business anymore, you're in the healthcare data business." (06:47 - Dr. Verdon)
- "Consolidation and or integration vertically...you can't do clinic because you'll lose money..." (09:18 & 09:42 - Dr. Verdon)
- "Migration of technologies out of the operating room and into the clinic...the volume coming in cannot be handled by a human anymore." (10:42 & 11:30 - Dr. Verdon)
Notable Timestamps
- 01:16 — Workforce shakeup post-pandemic; rise in efficiency needs.
- 02:27 — Generative AI in clinical documentation.
- 03:12 — Dr. Verdon’s AI-powered patient triage system.
- 04:26 — Future of AI in personalized, community-centric decision support.
- 06:02 — Emergence of value-based care models.
- 07:39 — Role of standardization and quality in driving growth.
- 09:18 — Market headwinds: practice consolidation, reimbursement pressures.
- 10:42 — Tech migration from OR to clinic as next major disruptor.
Conclusion
Dr. Verdon brings a forward-thinking perspective on the transformation underway in spine care and healthcare at large. His emphasis on AI’s growing role in efficiency, decision support, and patient triage, along with insights on data-driven care, standardization, and the coming shift in the business model, makes the episode essential listening for anyone interested in the future of specialty practice and healthcare delivery.