← Becker’s Healthcare Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
This is Scott Becker with the Becker Healthcare podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by an extraordinary leader. But to me, more than being an extraordinary leader, we're joined today by Dr. Sharmila Makija. And Dr. Makeja is not just a great leader, she is a great person. She's got this fascinating role currently as being the founding dean of the Alice Walton School of Medicine. An amazing journey. Dr. Makija, can you take a moment and introduce yourself and tell us about the Ellis Walton School of Medicine?
- [00:37]
B
Well, thank you so much, Scott, really appreciate you inviting me. And it's just been a pleasure to get to know you over the past couple of years. I'm just a big fan, a great admirer of all the work you've done. So thank you. Thank you. So, as you said, I am the founding dean and CEO of the Alice Walton School of Medicine. We affectionately call it awesome. In fact, Alice, the family is very careful and very humble. Don't want their name on things. But when she saw that the acronym became awesome, she immediately was sold on that. So we call ourselves awesome. It's a new four year med program and we're based in Bentonville, Arkansas. I joined in 23, it was founded in 21 and we were gone through the first six sets of accreditation so that we welcomed our first class in July of 25. And really we were created with a clear purpose to reimagine medical education by integrating rigorous clinical training with the arts, the humanities and whole health principles.
- [01:43]
A
Thank you. And there's so many different routes to go down. But let me start with this. Your personal journey to becoming founding dean and CEO of a medical school. What sort of led you to this spot? How did this come together?
- [02:02]
B
So I can't say that I was looking for this. I mean, I don't think you get this kind of opportunity very often. But you know, I knew a lot of the teams on the search committee that asked advice about who to recruit and you know, how when they were forming the school to get some input and then at one point they said, well, why don't you look at the school and because I gave them names of some, some of my colleagues that I thought would be interested. And as I started to learn more, I saw a really unique opportunity to not only start a new medical school, but you have. It could be scary if you thought about it too hard, but there was no university attached and no health system and you were going to be sitting on the campus of a world class museum. And I thought over the years of Being a department chair and having, you know, students that start residency programs in your program or residents that sign up to do their first job, we had to do a lot of retraining and understanding of how do you actually practice medicine in this day and age and how do you keep up with it? And we'd always say to ourselves on our teams, if we could just go back and shift how we teach medical education to better prepare a student to face the issues in the world of being a physician, this is what we would do. And so when this opportunity came, I thought, well, it's now or never to try to see if we can actually make that change. And meeting Alice and the team, it was very clear that mission and vision aligned with my own values and principles. And so it really, it just clicked for us because we had to be able to work on it together to create this vision that could be implemented. And now we're on that mission of how do we replicate our successes so that we can create this education that other schools could potentially use as well.
- [04:08]
A
Let me ask you this question, Dr. Makija. This issue of right now, people go to four years of college, four years of medical school, three to four years of residency, and often a fellowship. So we end up in a spot where people aren't out yet practicing till 3132. In many places we've got this tremendous shortage of doctors. We've got a tremendous aging population that has lots of health needs. There are other nations and we're the huge beneficiary of this, where they're able to get people out in practicing a couple years earlier than that. And thank God for those people immigrating to this country or we'd be even more short. But that's not necessarily a win because it's somewhat a zero sum game because we're those doctors are leaving those countries with less doctors per capita. But is there a way to shorten the medical education process? We are so short specialists in so many places. I don't even like to talk about primary care anymore because they say we're, you know, a couple hundred thousand shorts only produce 10,000 primary care doctors a year. So it's almost. We're never going to catch up there. But on specialties hard and hard to access, is there a way to accelerate medical education at all? And did you look at some of those issues as you're starting a brand new medical school and not stuck with all the doctrine or challenges that people have had at existing schools?
- [05:25]
B
Yes, I mean, I think that's an ongoing review. And I think some schools are starting to look at shortening perhaps to three years instead of four years. We're not there yet for us because we are a new school. And we really, we took the approach of putting in back into education the essentials that I feel were not being focused on. And if you look at how the world evolves, and right now everybody's talking about AI right, and technology, and yet if you were to survey students to understand their understanding of technology, over 50% will say they're overwhelmed. So we're trying to put in the pieces that we feel are the gaps that we see. Even when you do produce the doctors and they're out there, and even if you have a shortage, what we feel strongly is that we're not educating them in the right way to handle the adversities. So I think part of that is the burnout that we see that doctors aren't staying as long in the field as we once saw them stay in. So we're, we're trying to address the gaps that we see. So we're, we're addressing whole person care, whole health care that's being put back into the curriculum, but we're starting with even their own self care and how do they take care of themselves to take better care of others. And we're hoping to be able to bridge that gap of the burnout, the resiliency that needs to be in there so they are staying in the field longer and happier and healthier for themselves that better serves the communities that they're in.
- [07:10]
A
No, and I love that. And let me take you to that question. You're in Arkansas, which is a somewhat rural state.
- [07:16]
B
Yes.
- [07:17]
A
How you talked about people staying in the communities they're in. Is there a way to address some of the big gaps that we have in rural health care and that seem to be accelerating as more and more people move to the 50 largest metro areas. How do we. Other thoughts on that?
- [07:33]
B
Yeah, so we, you know, we, we also look at the students that we're recruiting and you know, many schools are offering free tuition. We are giving free tuition for the first five cohorts through the generosity of Alice Walton. And we want to take it another step further. We, we know that when other schools have given free tuition and they say, please go back into primary care because we've now taken that burden off of you, the financial burden. We're not really seeing that they are going into primary care, much less going into the rural areas. So we wanted to start with students that come from A rural background that may not have the opportunity to go to medical school. But if they are coming from rural background, they're more likely to go back into the rural areas because that's more of a home connection to them. So nationally, if you look at how many students have a background and coming from a rural area, it's less than 5%. Our first class is 15%. And we're continuing to build up on that because the thought is coming from that background, they're going to understand the needs even more so and have that. That direct connection of wanting to go back and serve in that community. But we know that that's not the only way like that. That's a good foundation. But we are looking at, as we build out the healthcare system, that we are partnering with Mercy as a health system, as an educational partner. But Alice's foundation is also building out. We haven't come up with the name yet, but right now we're calling it the Bentonville Healthcare Campus, where we are going to use that virtual technology that Mercy is very good at, with their virtual platform of how do we bridge the rural communities back to centrally, even if they're not part of Mercy Health System? How do we support patients getting the care they need through this virtual network with maybe, you know, you might be able to produce a few doctors that go out to the area, but even more so, how do you support those doctors that are in a rural community so they're not feeling like they're on their own, connecting them back centrally to us, to this healthcare campus virtually, to offer support, second opinions, whatever it needs to keep the patient there with them, keeping that rural doctor, the doctor practicing in a rural area, feeling safer and secure about having a support system. So we're looking at that whole picture as a system to better support the physicians and patients in our rural communities.
- [10:03]
A
Let me ask you a question about how you manage yourself in your leadership capacities. You're one of these people that seems incredibly able to do everything and do it really well and with great grace. I know. I remember personally talking to one of our daughters who went to medical school years ago to give her a little bit of advice on how she should look at things and think about things. And it was really incredibly impactful for her. But you seem to find the time to do so many things and you've got such a huge set of responsibilities. I How do you think about managing your time and setting priorities and sort of making sure you could be as effective as you actually are, which is incredible.
- [10:50]
B
Oh, well, that's very kind of you, but I don't know if I have it. Have it all together or have the answers. But I will say that I. I think I give credit to my parents for always being that support for me. But. And I might have shared with you at some point that growing up we would, you know, there's three of us kids, and we were at the dinner table, not only did we have to talk about, not have to, but we would be asked, what did you learn today? But it evolved more into, how have you made someone else's day better? How have you given back? And, you know, at first we start off trying to ask each other, well, what are you going to say? And then it evolved in just a natural conversation as we got older. And we try to do that at the school as much as we can to help support. I was very fortunate also to have great mentors that made time for me. And even if I went to call them a formal mentor and formal time together, I knew that I could call and ask their insights or input or they would notice things. So I always felt like I was always in an atmosphere of giving back or giving out. And I think when you do that and have that mindset, you. You end up receiving even more support and more help just when you don't think you're going to get it. And I think that's just in our nature at the school and how I was raised. And so I think it's very important to give back. And we're trying to foster that type of culture at the school and for our students, for our faculty and staff. Are we perfect at it? No. You know, we can always do better, but I think it's just in our culture to support everybody.
- [12:33]
A
I think that's just as a wonderful, wonderful perspective. I love that dinner table question. What have you done today for somebody else? What have you done to give back today? You know, I'm happy today is one of those days where I can answer that question well, but I don't know that every day I can. And I just love that focus. I think it just is magnificent. Talk a little bit about as you look at this year. I mean, obviously you've just got your first class now in 25, so into their second year. And so what are you most focused on and excited about this year?
- [13:07]
B
Well, you know, so they finished their first semester, they've started their second semester. We're almost done recruiting our second class, so that should be done pretty soon. So we're really excited about having the second class on Board, you know, I think, you know, and we've also just finished off our designing our strategic plan to go through 2030, because we're evolving, right? And I think what we really get excited about is we can be in our offices, we can be talking about things, but when we're with the students and we, you know, sometimes I do coffee with them, or we just do a little impromptu town hall, you know, I'm just amazed. I think back when I was a student, I don't think I thought as deeply as they do. And so they're really. They really invigorate us. They. They really help us to think about other things that we may not be thinking about. They are so poised and respectful, yet very determined, insightful. And so I. I'm just amazed at, you know, we don't say kids, but the students at what. What they're thinking about. And they just give us a lot of energy. And it's just when. When it was winter break and they weren't around, we. We felt it, we missed them. And so I would say the fact that we're getting a second class that comes on board, it. It's going to even be double that. And so we're really, really just excited about that. And they're also so happy to be here. They've been also asking us, well, hey, do you think you can start building up more GME programs? Because we want to stay here and train and stay here to work as we build out our healthcare campus. And they're seeing that vision come to light, and that just really touches our heart. That means that we probably are building the right culture, which, again, not perfect, but we're trying our best that they want to stay here and they want to be a part of this community. So we're just happy about that. And I think being on the campus of a museum with our other sister institutions, it's fun to just be able to walk on a trail and go look at art or walk past our garden where we have the Trails team that have created a whole nature guide on getting out and helping you with wellness. To our fruit trees that, you know, internally they joke because I grew up going to my backyard and plucking fruit from a tree and we're not allowed to pluck, but I'm about to go plant our own trees that we can pluck anytime we want. But, you know, it's just things like that that seem very simple, but it's just a nice atmosphere. From the students to our surroundings, it's just really. It's Just really fun. Just a lot of fun.
- [16:05]
A
I mean, it's really remarkable what you're doing and what you're accomplishing. Take a second on lifelong education, because I talked about earlier fellowships. You went back and did a fellowship in gynecological oncology. You went back later to do an MBA at Emory. The commitment to lifelong intelligence and to keep on learning. Could you just give us a moment on that and maybe any other advice for emerging leaders, too?
- [16:31]
B
Yeah. So, you know, I think, again, having parents that are both educators. My dad was a high school. I'm sorry. My dad was a college chemistry professor. Mom was a high school biology teacher. So education was always very highly valued in our family. You know, my brother was a doctor, my sister was a dentist. So it's always been ingrained in me. And so I think that anytime I see a challenge, and maybe I've done a formal education with an mba, but I started off wanting to do that because I didn't understand finance and accounting to be able to talk and communicate with, you know, our internal finance teams and. But it quickly changed to organizational behavior that I really learned and understood better in business school and really helped us form the teams that we have. And I think it's always wanting to be curious and understanding the why that drives me to keep learning. Listening to certain podcasts, listening to you, getting wisdom from other facets of industries, it's just fascinating to me. And at one point in my career, I was a translational researcher, so that meant I had to translate what the basic scientists were studying in the lab to the clinicians. How do you integrate that to make something really impactful for a patient? I think it's no different when you're trying to learn a different industry and trying to glean some pieces where you can bring it to your own place of work. It's all education. But I think it starts with curiosity, of wanting to understand why and how do you connect it? How do you connect it to what you're working on to make it even better? My advice is that you're never going to know all the answers. I think I have great teams that are a lot smarter than me, a lot more hardworking, and they bring it to the table so we can all learn. Doesn't mean we agree on everything. But I think that's the beauty of it, is that we disagree respectfully and let in order to really learn and get to a better place. And so my advice is always try to do that as much as you can. It's not easy sometimes Sometimes you just want an easy yes and just keep moving. But I think the most powerful solutions come from deliberating, thinking through, being comfortable with arguing out a point, but even more comfortable listening and learning and understanding to get to a better place.
- [19:19]
A
I think it's a remarkable perspective. I feel like in some ways, that perspective of even though you can't see it on the cable TV shows, the perspective respectfully disagreeing, There's a part of society that seems to be bringing that back, and it's so needed in a time of such extremes that have, for so many strange reasons. But this concept of coming back to just respectful disagreeing, I think is just a beautiful concept. I'm gonna ask you one more question.
- [19:49]
B
Yeah.
- [19:50]
A
The percentage of students that are from Arkansas versus the rest of the country to start with. And what can you tell me there?
- [19:58]
B
So we have. Our first class is about 30% are from Arkansas. And then if you include the heartland states, which are about 20 plus states, maybe 20 to 22, depending on which diagram you look at, which are in the heart of the United States, that's called the heartland region. If you include students from there, we have about 55%. So a little over half our class are from that heartland area. This next year's class is probably going to be even higher than that. And again, we take students from all over the country. But again, our mission is really how do we align with the needs of. Of the heartland states, the rural communities, by getting those students from those areas to come and be educated here and go back into the heartland community. Because if we can amplify the work we're doing and they go into communities to amplify it even further, I think that's really a win on our part. That's what we'll consider as being successful.
- [21:02]
A
No, I think that just is absolutely fantastic. Um, love that. And that's exactly right. If they. If they come there, they're likely to go back. If they don't come there, they're more likely to end up in the coast and you end up losing them or in all metro areas and. And so forth. So just a fantastic. Dr. Makija. We. We just are the biggest fan. We love what you're doing. We really are. It's. I get a chance to visit with another leader that I think of similarly as to what they're doing for their state, what their area they're doing. And I just. I just love what you do. I love what they do. Thank you so much for taking the time with us today on the Becker's healthcare podcast and continue. Good luck. We continue to watch the success of the Ellis Walton School of Medicine, and we love watching you and all you do. So thank you very, very much for joining us.
- [21:48]
B
Oh, well, thank you so much, Scott. And you know, it's a mutual admiration society between us because I'm a big fan of yours and continually will support you. And thank you so much for this opportunity. Really appreciate you.
- [22:00]
A
Thank you.
- [22:01]
B
Thank you.