← Becker’s Healthcare Podcast
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- [00:01]
Molly Gamble
Hello and welcome back to the Beckers Healthcare Podcast. I am Molly Gamble with Beckers, and today I'm joined by Stuart Archer. Stuart is the CEO of Ocean's Healthcare. Stuart, I want to welcome you back to the podcast. You're a returning guest. I'm looking forward to catching up with you today.
- [00:17]
Stuart Archer
Yeah, good morning and thank you guys for having me back again.
- [00:21]
Molly Gamble
Well, Stuart, let's help our listeners get reacquainted with you and your work. You've led Ocean's Healthcare over the past 10 plus years. Now some meaningful expansion in the behavioral health space. Can you share a bit more about yourself and also just give us an overview of Ocean's Healthcare today, where you operate, your model, what makes your approach unique in the behavioral health space?
- [00:43]
Stuart Archer
Sure, sure. Well, and again, thank you for having us back. I really love the podcast and the information and the great guests that you guys have. Ocean's Healthcare, at our core, is a behavioral health organization founded over 20 years ago in rural Louisiana. We stay true to that mission and continue to focus on underserved communities and underserved populations across the behavioral health continuum, really from those. Those very early roots in rural Louisiana. Today, Oceans is one of the larger players in behavioral health now, with a national footprint stretching coast to coast with almost 40 behavioral health hospitals in several states, both with inpatient outpatient offerings and with a range of ages, but continuing to focus on underserved populations and underserved communities.
- [01:46]
Molly Gamble
So help. Thanks, Stuart. And we've got a lot to unpack today. From industry trends, you're keeping closest eye on to some of the biggest priorities that you have right now in front of you at Ocean's. But, you know, let's start with zooming out. When you think about the behavioral health and post acute care landscape, or the inpatient and outpatient setting for behavioral health, what trends or shifts are you watching most closely right now? Maybe a policy perspective, operationally, patient needs. What's top of mind for you?
- [02:18]
Stuart Archer
Yeah, what a dynamic time. And yeah, there's not much going on at a federal level right now, is there? So I think so much has been reported and has been viewed through an acute care lens, and rightfully so. I think there's obviously a lot at risk for them, but I would say that focus really forgets that there's other really fundamental pieces of the healthcare continuum. And one of those that we certainly recognize and that many peers recognize is the behavioral health continuum here in America, which even till today, I think, before even this Medicaid reform conversation and some of the Financing issues that we've seen raised is one of the most fragile pieces of our healthcare continuum. You know, we're watching a range of issues, but I would say that, you know, when you think about behavioral health players, they're typically funded from a parity perspective at two thirds what their acute care peers are. They have to fight almost harder than anyone does just to get paid for their services. I think patients and families still struggle to access just the basic care that they need in many of these communities. And so we're certainly very concerned, I think, about many of the moves that we see happening. One of those is it appears to roll back, I think, of some hard fought parity wins that appear to be on the cusp of being rolled back. I would say from a Medicaid perspective, certainly some of the funding issues that we've seen and the cuts that we've seen potentially come down the road would dramatically affect, I think, the behavioral health continuums that continue to already be underfunded.
- [04:15]
Molly Gamble
Can you expand on that, Stuart? Because I think the parity piece so often can be treated as it works on assumptions. It's baked into so much conversation that we're not always explicit about that. But what you just touched on and the possible rollback of it, that could be devastating for so many different types of care settings. I would love to just have more detail on what you're, what you're referring to there.
- [04:39]
Stuart Archer
Yeah, look, I think, I think like you said, let's kind of zoom out for a second. I think a behavioral health patient is a very, in a family that helps their loved ones navigate. This system is very vulnerable from a lot of different perspectives. The nature of the care that we give still is subjective at some points. I think we have better data than we've ever had before. We've got better scientific tools than we ever have before. But a lot of the tools and the instruments and the methods that a lot of payers use are centered around a more medical or acute care framework. And so I think we've seen, and we've seen this regardless of market and almost agnostic of payer, a real misalignment both from a behavioral health perspective and from a payer perspective. And so I think while not perfect and certainly not as comprehensive as we would have liked, you know, recent purity laws that were passed were helping to kind of move that bar forward. Unfortunately, I think the, you know, one of the largest lobbying groups in the country is the groups that represent payers and they, they yield, you know, significant power. And so I think you know, one of the things that we have to do as an industry, and certainly one of the things that I'm the most proud of here at Oceans is the advocacy work that we do on behalf of our patients, their loved ones, and the communities that we serve. All too often it's become very fashionable to be for behavioral health to certainly speak in support of the services that we provide. But all too often, when it really comes down to spending political capital or it comes down to spending precious dollars, all too often the behavioral health community, while talked about, is not in the room for those conversations. And so it's our hope, with our increased voice, that Oceans can lend our perspective in those conversations. And I'm proud of some of those wins that we've already had. But I would say that the behavioral health industry still, when we look at the impact of preauthorizations or continuing stay criteria or many of the other ways or tricks I would say that the payers use with behavioral health patients, it's still a real struggle for patients just to access the basic care that they deserve and many times have paid for.
- [07:15]
Molly Gamble
No. So. Well, I loved your point about spending political capital or precious dollars because as much as it's discussed, the players and the voices and stakeholders aren't actually in the room. That's a really important distinction in these times. Especially. Stuart, looking inward for a moment at Oceans today, where does your focus lie most intensely? Or are there any wins that you're especially proud of in the last year or so? Maybe it's a milestone you hit, an operational improvement or something that's maybe less visible but extremely meaningful to you?
- [07:47]
Stuart Archer
Yeah. Look, I would say first of all that I continue to be tremendously humbled at my ability to continue to work with this amazing team that we have at Ocean's. We certainly have tried to stay very focused on our core mission and that is providing services to underserved populations in underserved communities. Oceans today is the sole provider in many of the communities that we serve. In over two thirds of the communities we serve, we are in a shortage area, a behavioral health shortage area. Today we operate several rural behavioral health hospitals which present its own challenges. So we are certainly, and we have a all payer focus. So whatever payer the patient has or the family has, that's what we're going to try to work within. So given that I'm especially proud of certainly the efforts that we have made to expand outpatient services, I think we are very focused on providing services in the least restrictive setting possible. At the most sustainable model. And that continues to be in our outpatient setting, where we hope to build on recovery that you possibly could have had on the inpatient side or prevent you from having to go into a hospital, our hospital, or others. So we're very focused on continuing to build out that continuum. I would say today in many states, though, there's still fundamental pieces of that continuum missing, which we can certainly go into more detail about. I would also highlight we're certainly proud to welcome the Haven Behavioral Health Hospital family into Ocean's in early January. That acquisition kept off, really, a conversation we had been having for a couple years with the group, and both from a cultural perspective and from a delivery perspective, aligns very well with Ocean's and brings several new states into our organization.
- [09:57]
Molly Gamble
That's great. And, Stuart, I guess a strategy question for you here, and it probably ties back to mission, too, but many organizations, as they get bigger and their footprint expands and their number of sites, you know, essentially doubles as Ocean's has, I think in your time there, if I'm not mistaken, you know, sometimes you meet these crossroads where you need to make some choices about your mission and the patient population you are setting out to serve. The insurer piece, like you just said. Any advice for leaders who are looking to scale and continue to grow when it comes to sticking with the mission that you really originated with and keeping that intact and strong while continuing to expand and cover more ground?
- [10:41]
Stuart Archer
Sure. What a great question. And like I would say this answer comes from not always getting it right. So I would say it comes from that perspective. I would say leaders get a tremendous amount of pressure to try to be everything to everybody. And in some organizations have maybe pulled that off. I really, really believe in doing what you do well. I think doing that as best as you can, certainly where it makes sense, expanding services and building on those success. But inevitably, I think when organizations try to be everything to everybody, you know, they end up failing everyone. And so we have stayed very focused on what we feel like we do best, building on that, certainly adding adjacent services where it makes sense, but also not being afraid to say, you know, that's not our journey, or there's others that do that really, really well. Let's connect you with them or let's figure out how we can work together on that. I would say also, you know, one thing at Ocean's is that we, we do not chase flashy things. I think in every industry and certainly in healthcare, there are trends, and I think some of those turn out to be great services. I Think for us, we certainly want to do those things that are sustainable and that don't just add cost to the system that are short term successes, but more fundamental things that are going to last.
- [12:12]
Molly Gamble
That's such great advice. Leaders, you cannot be everything to everybody and neither can a health system. We say that even with the biggest acute care systems too. Stuart. So I think that's just such sage advice. On that same vein, talking about advice, you've held executive roles across a few different sectors of healthcare. You've helped organizations grow. For leaders who are early on in their journey, or maybe even those just trying to figure out their next chapter, what's another piece of advice that has felt extremely relevant to you as of late?
- [12:48]
Stuart Archer
It's interesting, when I look around the table, it appears that I have a chance to work with or other folks in the behavioral health space that may have followed a more traditional path. You know, certainly mine wasn't that I started out as a college football coach and ended up, you know, you know, in, you know, having the opportunity to get into health care many years ago and end up in executive role here. And so a lot of, you know what I think about kind of fundamental leadership examples or advice comes from kind of those early days. And I would say a couple things. One is, you know, don't be afraid to be yourself. You know, in so many young leaders that I see or even, you know, other senior leaders are trying to emulate others. I think there's so many great learnings out there. I think there's so many things that we can learn from the experiences of others. So I would say, look, if you're not reading, if you're not educating yourself every day, then you're not moving forward. But at the end of the day, you know, be you. Be what? Be, you know, you know, I think there's, there's, there's no, there's a, you know, there's nothing more authentic than someone who you can tell is very comfortable in their own skin. And so I tell young leaders, be yourself, don't, don't, you know, don't try to be your boss or don't try to emulate others that aren't genuine to you. You know, and I would say the other thing is, and it's, and it's kind of old school advice is just put your head down and do the work. I think work hard, show up early, you know, be the last one out of the office, first one in the door, head down, doing the work. I think so many times people get so wrapped up in trying to position things or, or they're in their head thinking three steps down the road, you know, and again, I was a. I was an offensive line coach, and so that probably sounds like an offensive lineman at the end of the day, but, you know, I think those people who really stay focused on the great work that we do in health care, who are heads down, who are working to move the ball and that find their path in this, look, I think, I think that's everything. You know, I think the other key piece I would say, is find your team. I think, you know, I've been very lucky here at Ocean's. I think the average tenure of our executive team is. Is approaching almost a decade. And so we have a lot of great folks who, who I have, who I continue to just be in awe of, but, but also love to, To. To go to work every day with and to do this work. And so both as a young leader, you know, someone coming up, it's just, it's really important. Important to find your tribe in this and find those people that, that both help you grow professionally and then also that you can help them along the way as well.
- [15:42]
Molly Gamble
Be yourself, put in the work and find your team. Stuart, I think each of those begets the other in some way, right? And they're so closely interrelated. But three, I love the simplicity of that. And as an interviewer, I so often enjoy when someone has a surprise background in healthcare. So starting off as a football coach is surely one of them. Stuart, I want to thank you so much for this conversation. It's clear that Oceans Healthcare is doing some really vital work in a challenging time. And I think your perspective as both a strategist and an operator, going back to the put in the work piece, really shines through here. So thank you again for joining us and listeners. This was Stuart Archer, CEO of Ocean's Healthcare. Stuart, thanks for being our guest.
- [16:26]
Stuart Archer
Thank you for having me, Sam.