← Becker’s Healthcare Podcast
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- [00:02]
A
Every year, Becker's annual meeting brings healthcare leaders together to unpack the most pressing issues facing the industry. And every year those conversations shift in profound and unexpected ways. This April, more than 3,500 healthcare executives will return to Chicago for Becker's 16th annual meeting. 795 elite speakers will offer new lessons, new case studies and predictions about what comes next. Join us April 13th through the 16th. For the agenda and event details, visit Beckershospitalview.com and click on the events tab in the upper right.
- [00:38]
B
This is Scott Becker with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by a fascinating leader and physician. We're joined today by Dr. Amy Gutman and Dr. Guttman's an author, she's a speaker. She's also known as the tough love MD. We've loved getting follow Dr. Gutman online and to hear about she does and so forth and so thrilled to get to visit with her today on the beckers Healthcare podcast. Dr. Gutman, can you take a moment and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background?
- [01:13]
C
Sure. And thank you so much. I've been following you and Becker's for years as well. So this is great. Thank you. I'm an emergency physician. I started out as a EMT firefighter and I've worked both in executive leadership and currently still work in the emergency department, primarily night shifts and the founder CEO of Tough Love Maryland, which it's a organization that treats leaders like they're part of a human operating system. I work on using stress physiology and metabolic stability to help leaders with their decision quality. Sort of taking those ideas of leading your life like a resuscitation which how I came to your attention I think.
- [02:00]
B
100% and talk a bit about the the movement from being a firefighter to being a physician that must involve going back to school and deciding this is what you really want to do. How did you get to that spot where you decided from what you were doing originally that this is where you wanted to go with your professional career?
- [02:17]
C
Oh sure. Actually it was somewhat by accident because my full intent was to be a fire chief. I had no intention of going to medical school. I'm profoundly dyslexic and was not what people would consider a great student. I didn't love school and I thought people who are physicians were these like super brainy folks who all had straight A's and new people and were all rich before they went to med school and I was none of those things. So it was one day that I was Working EMS and fire. I was literally on top of a burning building. I was the roof girl because I'm five one and a little tiny person. So I was the roof girl. And I was sitting there in the middle of an ice storm and my boots were hot because the roof was on fire. And I'm thinking there's got to be something I can do indoors for sustainability. And ended up making friends with more people in the emergency department. Met a physician assistant, thought her job was awesome. Was a PA for many years and loved it and then moved on to medical school because I realized everything I wanted to do in medicine I couldn't do as a PA. And so it's been quite the road since 1987 is when I started. So it's been very interesting developing all those little interests along the way and.
- [03:48]
B
Talk about that because I think one of the things I love about you and what you do is this evolving professional concept. People that never stop growing and evolving. Talk about your, your evolution and how you balance being an emergency physician with also speaking and writing and counseling. Talk about that sort of love for lifelong learning that, that constant evolution as a person and what lessons are there in that?
- [04:12]
C
Sure. And, and it's actually funny. It's one of the big criticisms that I've had with people who have been coaching me on speaking is that I have so many different interests and they say, you know, it's to be successful as an executive coach or a speaker, you have to have one interest. But I find that all of my interests kind of tie into one. And I sort of fell into the speaking executive coaching when I got quite ill and started to look at medicine very, very differently. I was a traditional, like, I believe research, I believe the ama. I believe that, you know, government run health care and the help that we give to people was good versus physician autonomy. There was actually a time in my life I thought physician autonomy was bad because I'm like, well, everyone's going to go off and do things that aren't good for patients and realize that actually physician autonomy is not only necessary, but critical. And questioning the establishment, establishment of medicine, establishment of guidelines, establishment of the way we run administrations. Even though I was in that process, I never really questioned it. So it took getting sick and then questioning everything. Actually, it's funny, I joke that I started off changing my diet and now I believe in, you know, chemtrails, which I don't, but, but it's one of those things that you start questioning things. And I really enjoy the fact that I stay in emergency medicine, I see what's going on and yet I can connect with wonderful people who are really trying to progress, not just physician leadership, but their autonomy and their health and their patients health, but also importantly the of the healthcare system. In my TED Talk, I talk about putting the health back into healthcare and that's something I'm truly passionate about. I think honestly that's where everything I do is centered from.
- [06:16]
B
Thank you so much. And talk for a moment about, if you could, what are you most focused on and excited about this year? I know you do this fascinating mix of things. You're still practicing as an ER doctor, run all over the nation to help solve problems and help systems, but talk about what you're most focused on and excited about this year, 2026.
- [06:41]
C
Well, honestly there's so many different things that I've been given the opportunities for because of my speaking and meeting different folks. But the interesting thing that I am getting the best feedback from is treating performance both as physicians and just as humans as physiologic, and realizing that unless we focus on sort of metabolic stability and decision quality, we, we will not be the resilient people that we need. I speak a lot on burnout, specifically physician burnout. And the response that I've gotten from my book, which honestly was just a way of telling a story about how I do what I do has been overwhelming to me. People who are responding to the idea that we did not understand that because we weren't feeling well ourselves, we can't give our best to our families, ourselves personally, our patients, our community. So it's taking what people have thought for many years is woo woo science with the new Maha movement, which I think is fantastic, really truly turning the, you know, the triangle literally on its head and understanding that metabolic health ties such directly into our mental health and our physical health and using that to help people become more resilient. So that's what I'm focusing on. I've been very lucky to book a lot of large sort of national conferences and then larger jobs in which I can reach more people and hopefully change their mind into things that they and myself used to think are like woo woo medicine, sort of tree hugging, but it's absolutely not. It is data, proven, evidence based. Everything I do is and really trying to drive home the fact that you got to maintain your physical health. If you can't maintain your physical health, everything else falls apart. Whether you're a leader, a team leader, an executive leader, or at home with four kids trying to be the leader of your household, you got to have that physical health and metabolic stability.
- [09:00]
B
So we agree with that and we talk to our children constantly about, you know, be a constructive adult and take care of your physical mental health. So I have to ask you, what, what is your favorite way to stay physically active? What, what is your, what is your top choice for what you do to stay physically active?
- [09:20]
C
Oh, I'm a walker. I absolutely love walking is one of the things that it requires very little time and very little equipment. You got get some shoes. And whether you have 10 minutes, 20 minutes or 30 minutes, one of my talks is change your life in 30 minutes. And it's incredible how things just 30 minutes of walking, which anyone can do, can. It drives your blood sugar down. It improves your mental state. It's actually when they do brainwave testing on people and look at people who are walking, it actually puts you into almost a meditative state with your. If you do an EEG reading on people who are doing that, it decreases your heart rate variability, decreases your blood pressure, it improves inflammatory states. And this is 30 minutes. This is not like going running a marathon. It's literally 30 minutes. It's the best way to control your cortisol, improve your neurotransmitters. It gives you a nice little dopamine surge. So I'm a walker. I like to add a little weighted resistance if I'm feeling particularly, you know, excited that day. And it's a great way of just getting. I mean, I don't necessarily say 10,000 steps. I think that's a made up number. You get at least your 30 minutes in and enjoy it. But I'm also in my 50s, so I do resistance exercise because it's great for your bones. I bring my exercise bands everywhere I travel because I do a lot of locums, whether they have a gym or don't have a gym. I have exercise bands, I pack them, I use them. And that's a commitment I make to, not only to myself, but making sure I make it to my family as well. Because if you model that behavior, they have that behavior too.
- [11:11]
B
We love all of that when you walk. One of my problems is I'm a multitasker. I'll listen to something on tape, I'll be emailing. And so I feel like I don't get the meditative benefits of walking that I should because I'm too often walking and connected to my phone. Are you able to turn your phone off or listen to something? How do you deal with that issue of walking and trying to Use it for meditative purposes as well.
- [11:38]
C
So let me ask you, when you are walking, are you, are you on your cell phone doing email or are you listening to something that's interesting?
- [11:47]
B
You know, some mix of both. I'm a big book on tape person, so the book's on tape. But, but even then, you know, I'm, I'm a task driven person and so I'm like, you know, trying to get through this book or that book. And then sometimes I am emailing or texting because I can't help myself versus putting the phone down. And I've gotten better. I bought an Apple Watch a couple years ago, which has been really helpful to leave my phone sometimes alone. But I'm not good at it. And so, you know, I love the walking. I am accounting steps persons until I'm wired. Sure, you know, it is what it is. But I would like to do better at disengaging for a little bit, taking a breath and just trying to stay centered and calmer.
- [12:32]
C
So I, I would say in all honesty that, that disengaging is really important. But think about it a different way. You're, you're trying to convince yourself that you need to be better at something. So you're already sort of failing at the, okay, I must relax because this is something I must be better at now, if you like. One of the things about sports, for example, that people do is like, oh, I want to be, you know, this much better every day. It's great to have a goal. Perfect. Hey, I work. Thought I worked. Walk 30 minutes one day, 35 and next. But if you are focused on, okay, I am not relaxing. And then you stress because you're not relaxing, it sort of defeats some of the mental benefits. I would say this. Do not email during a thing. I know you have like a million businesses as well. The books that you are enjoying on tape. Focus on your book and tape. And not just, oh my gosh, I got to get 30 minutes done to get to the end of it. But let me just. I'm reading this book for a purpose. Not whether the purpose is enjoyment or, oh, this is really interesting. That's the fun thing. Focus on the words, focus on the story that's being told and you're going to find that you're going to be at the end of your 30 minutes or hour or whatever it is before you know it because you're actually focusing on it rather than trying to get to the end of it. I, I love podcasts, listening to them and I specifically listen to people I don't know or topics I know nothing about. I've learned more about random things by hitting Spotify, literally flinging on my cell phone and hitting something and someone and going, oh, that's what I'm going to listen to. And it is a really wonderful way of, you know, disengaging from the I have this email to do or this meeting to do, or I have to get to the end of this book. It's just enjoying the learning, as you said. That's. That's sort of my thing. Or I put on some great music, I can listen to the Four Seasons every day of my life and be a happy girl. It's brings me joy and sometimes that's all I need.
- [14:49]
B
Fantastic. And Dr. Gutman, one more question. Advice you would give to emerging leaders, emerged physician leaders about thriving and enjoying their careers. Any overall advice you give to emerging leaders or emerging physicians?
- [15:04]
C
Oh, absolutely. I would say stop treating exhaustion like a badge of honor. You cannot have any recovery without resilience. You know, the burnout that we see, the stress that we see for physicians for leaders is real. There's a wonderful group that I belong to called Medicine Forward that is trying to help physicians in their autonomy and recovery. By the way, if I can just say, there's a great documentary coming out in March called Suck It Up, Buttercup about just this topic about how the health care system itself and leaders in the healthcare system are being changed by this burnout epidemic. So I stop treating exhaustion like a badge of honor. Your performance is absolutely physiologic. If you cannot regulate yourself physiologically, you are going to not only burn up, but be sick physically and mentally. If you respect recovery as like system maintenance, think of it like in the AI, the digital health world. It's system maintenance of your human operating system. And if you realize and lean into that idea, it will make you a better leader and a better person. So that is my advice. Just lean into your system's maintenance.
- [16:31]
B
I love that in every way. There's another concept that people talk about that resonates to me so well, which is respecting this concept of channel capacity, meaning there's only so many things you could do and do them well. And similarly, if you don't take care of your recovery and resilience, whatever it takes to do that, you can't really perform how you want to perform and thrive for never the impact that you want to have. I Love that thinking, Dr. Gutman.
- [16:58]
C
It's. But it's true. And it's, it's simple. And it makes sense. I'm, I'm ultimately a simple girl. I'm, I don't consider myself the world's, you know, greatest data scientist, the world's greatest, really anything I try. I think I'm a pretty good mom, honestly. Pretty good wife, pretty, pretty decent physician on most nights of the week. But it's tough. Like I just came off seven 12 hour night shifts. I was anticipating three nights at home and there's a storm coming up, so. Okay, I gotta recycle my brain, take a deep breath and move on to the next thing. You, you can't do those things if you are so preoccupied with the 700 other things that just maybe don't need to get done today or focused upon. And that is a very, very difficult thing, especially for high performers. You know, we can't all be Elon Musk who sleeps what, three hours a night, four hours a night, and runs a million crazy businesses. But I would say find the things that matter to you most, focus on them. And if those things are destroying you, you need to step back, no matter how good you are at them, and reevaluate different ways of doing it. That's what we do in the emergency department. If somebody comes in in a resuscitation and this med's not working, okay, we go to the next one, what's working, what's not. Reevaluate, reroute what you're doing and you do those things until you come to your end point. And if you attack everything exactly that way, you will either be very successful or you will have done your very best to be successful. And both of those things are victories.
- [18:46]
B
Dr. Gutman, what a pleasure to visit with you today again. Dr. Amy Gutman, the tough love md. Just fantastic to visit with you. Thank you so much for joining us today on the Beckers healthcare podcast.
- [18:58]
C
Scott, it's a pleasure. Thank you so much.