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Becoming UnDone
125 | San Jose State Football Head Coach Ken Niumatalolo Reflects on Leadership Lessons from Coach Tomey (Part 13)
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- [00:04]
Toby Brooks
This is becoming undone. Did I ever tell you about the apple cider fiasco of 1990? I don't think so, but I think I'm gonna buckle up. Here we go. I grew up in the middle of nowhere Southern Illinois. I always start to say in a small town, but then I remember it wasn't a small town. My folks place was a little hobby farm off of Illinois Highway 145 between two small towns that you've never heard of and frankly aren't important to the story. In my county wide high school there were less than 250 of us. In a school that size, pretty much every team or school sponsored activity is populated by the same roster of students. I would have loved to have played football, but as I've complained about several times already on this show, we didn't have a team. So my main interests in high school were basketball, a bunch of different academic teams, and band. I was a drummer in the past. I've written and spoken quite a bit about my love for music and my love for drums in particular, but I especially loved marching band in small town rural southern ILLINOIS in the 90s, a lot of the towns had local festivals and many festivals had parades and our band competed and just so happened to win quite a bit. Many of these parades were miles long and one in particular might as well have been like our Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. At least us the Murfreesboro Apple Festival. If I recall, the Apple Fest Grand Parade was over three miles long. I tried to look it up on the web, but unfortunately, according to the website that I visited just now, it is quote one of the longest in Illinois. No specific measurement with fire engines, marching bands, floats, visiting royalty. Visiting royalty, is that right? Yes, that says visiting royalty, horses and many other unique entries. I guess the Apple Festival Queen counts as visiting royalty. Over 100 units make this parade truly grand. All caps and are enjoyed by thousands of residents and visitors each year. End quote. Here's a little taste. You're welcome. Anywho, the Apple Festival is usually in early September and in Southern Illinois that's usually like mid to low 70s, fairly comfortable even if you're lugging a drum in full band uniform and gear and marching three plus miles. However, in 1990 it was unseasonably warm, close to 90 degrees and muggy. In my memory, I must have sweated out about 10 gallons from the start of the day until we closed the parade with our final roll off. That's a cool insider marching band term if you didn't know. So here's me dying of thirst. But as usual, broke too. I dropped my gear as quickly as I could, stripped off my soaked jacket and hat and looked for the nearest source of cold liquid that I could find. What I really wanted was Gatorade. What I would have settled for was water. However, I didn't have the cash on me that I needed in order to buy the quantities of either Gatorade or water that I wanted from the vendor trailers that were near the end of the parade preying on us hapless high school kids. I was literally down to my last two dollars. Two lousy dollars. I couldn't really afford anything except for one thing. It was after all, the Apple Festival. They were selling ice cold gallons of freshly squeezed apple cider for 99 cents each. I'd had apple juice before and I liked it. It was sweet and surely it would be refreshing. Whatever cider was, it was probably pretty much the same, right?
- [04:36]
Ken Niamantalolo
Wrong.
- [04:36]
Toby Brooks
Unbeknownst to me, I went ahead with my purchase. I bought two jugs and I pocketed the two pennies, friend. @ that moment, I don't recall ever being that thirsty up to that point in my life. When I tell you I tore into that first gallon with reckless abandon, I mean it. I absolutely crushed it in like one big gulping chug, a deep inhill to catch my breath, then another rep to finish it off. Like I was some douchey frat guy at a party in the 80s in a coming of age college MO but without that big obligatory burp at the end because you know there were chicks around. I had to be cool. Now I'll admit something inside me said this might not be a great idea. Maybe it was that massive amount of freshly chugged cider sitting in my guts. Who knows? But I was 15 years old. For all I knew. Apples were good for you, right? Cider, whatever that was, was cheap and it was cold and it was wet apple. What could go wrong? I went back to the bus to finish changing out of my uniform into my street clothes, discarding the empty milk jug style container from that first gallon that I'd already crushed, put it in the trash and cracked open the second one on the way like some kind of relapsed apple ciderholic. With my open container comfort jug in hand, I did decide that I would sip number two a little slower, you know, for the sake of safety. I managed to change clothes when I started feeling off, we'll say my stomach now holding about a gallon and a half or so of apple cider and counting seemed to be getting a little angrier and a little louder by the minute. We loaded up the bus and headed to the football field to watch the other bigger schools compete in the field show that night, and by the time we got there, I think I was in the throes of a full blown gastrointestinal episode. This is a classy joint, so I will spare you the specifics, but will say there were sounds. There were definitely sounds, perhaps even smells, and definitely sensations. And all of those were bad. Like very bad. We went inside the stadium as a group. We took a spot in the corner on the home bleachers and our band director, Mr. Brickhouse, was the lone adult with us other than the two bus drivers, and he must have noticed me and my green complexion as I tried to silently sneak out and make my way back to the bus where I sprawled out across two of the seats in the back. I was now in apple cider fueled misery and I was cramping in a way that suggested that I was probably about to start my period. You know, in my head I thought I could sneak off to the bus so that I could just be in misery alone. I didn't want to draw attention to myself. I didn't want the embarrassment of my bandmates, especially the girl seeing me like this. Especially because I was the one dumb enough to guzzle 2 gallons of apple cider in what must have been 30 minutes or less. Mr. B stepped aboard and he slowly walked to the back of the bus where I was kind of quietly groaning in agony. Mr. Brooks, he said firmly. He always called us mister or miss. He's the first person who ever called me that. Mr. Brooks, are you okay? I let out a big sigh. No sir, I am not. I was really thirsty and I drank 2 gallons of apple cider and now I feel terrible. He stared at me for a minute, then looking back, if I'd have been in his shoes, I too would have had to pause to gather my thoughts and steal myself to keep from laughing. What do you say to an idiot 15 year old kid who willingly downed 256 fluid ounces of pressed apples, pulp and sediment. That's what they say is in apple cider on Wikipedia. Commonly found also in unpasteurized homemade Murfreesboro Apple Festival signature cider? He finally gathered himself. Then he said two things that I'll never forget. Mr. Brooks, what you've done was incredibly stupid. In my head I was like, thanks, Mr. B. I don't disagree. But he continued, he said, I want you to know that I care about you, and I want you to return to your seat with the rest of the band. With that, he turned away and walked out on his way. I grunted an okay. That was about all I could muster. Mr. Brickhouse didn't sugarcoat it. Thank goodness. I I couldn't have managed to choke down another ounce of sugar if I had to. But in that moment, he helped me realize that what I'd done was dumb for sure. But more importantly, he still cared about me. He was still paying attention enough to see me. Even though I tried to sneak out kind of quietly, he noticed he was paying attention. It's a lesson I'll never forget. And in case you're wondering, I haven't had a sip of apple cider since. Now, the reason I'm telling you that story is because I see a lot of parallels. Good leaders pay attention. They know the status, the health, the wellness of their people. It was a rough day. Definitely one of the worst hydration decisions I've ever made, and yet one of the most unexpectedly meaningful lessons I've ever received. Because that day, Mr. Brickhouse didn't ignore me. He didn't rescue me either. But he showed up. He told the truth. And he reminded me without fanfare, without flourish, without embarrassing me in front of my friends, that I mattered. Even at my worst. That kind of leadership, the kind that sees past the mistake and still shows up with compassion and clarity, it sticks. You remember it, and it makes you work harder for that leader. If you stuck with me this long, I guess it's worth mentioning I'm Toby Brooks. These days, I wear a few different hats. Professor, speaker, podcaster. But back in the late 90s and early 2000s, I was just a grad assistant athletic trainer at the University of Arizona. Little did I know I'd be part of Coach Dick Thomas final season with The Wildcats in 2000. As I've been reflecting on the life and the legacy and the lessons the late coach Dick Tomi, I've come to realize he led the same way. Sadly, we lost Coach Tomi to cancer in 2019, but if anything, his voice has only gotten louder in my life since then. The more I grow in my own leadership, the more I find myself asking, how'd he do it? How do you get people from such different backgrounds to come together, whether that was the islands of Hawaii, a locker room in Tucson, Arizona, or San Jose, California, in a season of adversity, get them to come together to become something bigger than themselves? What made him the kind of leader that People followed long after that final whistle. Because in a profession driven by wins and stats and headlines, and he did that too, Coach told me was different. Along with it, he built something far more lasting. Culture. And more than that, he built people. Those questions about his leadership, his legacy, how he made people feel seen and known and loved haven't let me go. So I started asking and listening, tracking down the players, the coaches, the colleagues, the family who knew him best. From California to Hawaii to Tucson, back to California to retirement. Walks on diamond. Head Coach Tomi never really stopped coaching, and he sure as heck never stopped caring. Today, we continue that journey with someone who knew him on both sides of the whistle, as a player and as a coach. Coach Ken Neil Matilolo was once a local kid standing outside Aloha Stadium helping his family hawk newspapers. But not long after, he was inside leading the Rainbow warriors as their quarterback. Today, he carries Coach Thomey's values forward as the head coach of San Jose State. This is a story about leadership, about humility, about building people who build culture. Friends, you're tuned in to Becoming undone. And this. This is part 13 of the life lessons and legacy of Coach Dick. Tell me a Toby Brooks passion project. Becoming Undone is a podcast for those who dare bravely risk mightily and grow relentlessly. Join me, Toby Brooks, as I invite a new guest each week as we examine how high achievers can transform from falling apart to falling into place. And for the past several weeks and for the next few, we're taking a deep dive into the life, the lessons and the legacy of the late coach Dick Thomey. Today we're joined by a man whose coaching journey is deeply intertwined with the legacy of Coach Tomi, a leader known for his toughness, his integrity, his heart. Today, Coach Ken Neomatallalo is the head coach of the San Jose State Spartans. But his story stretches from the islands of Hawaii to the Naval Academy and now back to the place where Coach Tomi left a powerful imprint. Coach, you played under Coach Tomi, coached under him. Now you carry that same torch of leadership, character and service. So today we're going to dive in and dig into those shared moments and the impact that Coach told me had on your life and how his influence hopefully continues to impact the way you lead today. So, Coach, thanks for joining me today.
- [14:39]
Ken Niamantalolo
Thanks for having me.
- [14:41]
Toby Brooks
So let's start back at the beginning. I tried to kind of piece your stories together, and from what I can tell, you were recruited by Coach Tomi late in his career, just as he was heading to Arizona So Coach Tommy.
- [14:54]
Ken Niamantalolo
Recruited me in 1983, so. And so is 82. And actually Dwayne Aquina, you know, that goes for him, obviously had Rich Elderson, you know, guys that are heavy into the. The desert swarm. Those are the guys that recruited me. But, yeah, so I was with. Coach told me from 83, 84, but I went on my church mission.
- [15:19]
Toby Brooks
Okay.
- [15:20]
Ken Niamantalolo
And back in 86. So, yeah, so I was with. Coach told me for three years. Yeah.
- [15:27]
Toby Brooks
All right, so you were recruited by him. When did you first meet him in person? And what were your initial impressions of Coach as a man?
- [15:36]
Ken Niamantalolo
Well, just being from Hawaii, I mean, everybody's. It's such a small island, and so university, Hawaii football, especially back then, was everything. It was. You know, there's no professional sports in Hawaii, so the Rainbow warriors were a big part of it. Especially what Coach told me had built. What he built in the. The mid-70s, you know, into that time. I. I actually used to sell newspapers as a young man at Aloha Stadium when coach was the head coach.
- [16:06]
Toby Brooks
I'm gonna just pop right in here early on and say a couple of things. First, I do my absolute best to be a professional on the show, but there are certainly times where I fumble, I make mistakes, I hate excuses. I'm honored to be talking to someone of Coach Niamantalolo's stature, experience, his history at Navy, now at San Jose. And I knew somehow in the back of my mind that my hillbilly, redneck, backwoods, country bumpkin tongue was gonna have a hard time saying his name. Full respect given and fully intending to show that respect by looking up the pronunciation ahead of time. I swear I practice it for 10 solid minutes, assuring myself that I had it down the day before the interview. After all, if I've learned anything from this series and from Coach, tell me. It's that you show people you care by doing the little things. And knowing and speaking their name properly is at the top of that list. Coach used to say the longer it goes, the tougher we get. No excuses, execute. And I didn't. My first mistake was fumbling Coach Niamantalolo's name from the jump. But unlike many at his level, he didn't embarrass me. He was kind and gracious. I'm sure there have been other buffoon interviewers that also got it wrong. That doesn't excuse it, but I not only appreciate that. It's telling to me of the kind of leader he is. He extended grace to a moron like me who was well intentioned, but had screwed up. Secondly, probably more importantly for the story, I can't shake the visual of a young Kenny selling newspapers outside Aloha Stadium, just a kid on the outside looking in, who would later become a 2 sport star coming out of Hawaii's Radford High and eventually take the field inside that very stadium as the Rainbow warriors quarterback. Kenny's time overlapped with Coach Tomi's, but I had also failed to recognize exactly how Kenny had graduated high school in 1983 and then spent two years on mission with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints before returning to UH in 1985. He'd been recruited by Coach Tomi and staff and returned from Mission before they headed to Arizona. But the connection and the legacy run deeper than just the calendar. When I was an assistant professor and an assistant athletic trainer at UTEP from 2000 to 2003, we played a game in that very same aloha Stadium in 2001, and I'll never forget it. First of all, we got crushed. We lost 66 to 7 in front of 34,000 rowdy Hawaii fans. The best part of the trip were the days before we went to Pearl harbor on Thursday, we had a luau at the beach on Friday. The game itself, not so much. But I'll never forget pulling up to Aloha Stadium on Saturday. I was awestruck. I'd seen the facility itself on tv. Pro Bowls, the Aloha bowl, the Senior Hula Bowl. It towered above the ground like a steel temple. The parking lot was alive with music. There was smoke from grills, tailgating families and the famous Aloha Stadium swap meet and marketplace. It was more than a venue. It was a moment. It was an experience. And I remember seeing local kids out there with their parents selling their wares. So the thought of a young Kenny standing outside those gates as a kid himself and then later leading his hometown team inside the stadium. Friends, that's not just a football story. That's a becoming undone story. And yet, while Coach NE Amontololo has gone on to bigger and better things, sadly, Aloha Stadium has not opened in 1975, it was officially condemned in December 2020. Somehow, the 2021 Hula bowl became the final event to be held there in January 2021. Though it's in the news on the daily right now, it's slated for demolition in August of 2025. And although a $350 million redevelopment fund has been approved by local lawmakers so far, progress has been slow the structure still stands empty, echoing and waiting for what's next. But that's the thing about legacies. They don't live in concrete. They live in people. If you want to know the kind of legacy that Coach Tomi built, just listen closely to what Coach Niamant Atlolo says next. Because this isn't just about schemes or stats. It's about heart and culture and the kind of leadership that lasts.
- [20:49]
Ken Niamantalolo
And so I mean everybody knows Coach Tomis. I mean he was a celebrity on the islands. What he did in changing, you know, Rainbow Warrior football everybody embrace, you know. And I wrote the forward for his book. It just the Saturday nights in the Halawa chains. When coach told me became head coach he used to play at the old stadium in Honolulu. When the stadium moved to a law stadium in Halawa, a big part of the movement there was Rainbow Warrior football. And coach told me was the big part of her soul. I guess it was a long after but even before I met him, I kind of knew him. So it was kind of intimidating to meet him. He's not the biggest man in the world, but he got me no these light blue eyes, you know, I like, like he looks like they penetrate right through you. Yeah. But you know, it was an honor to meet him. I just remember meeting him. I got recruited. Coach Dwayne Aquina and Coach Ellerson were the guys that recruited me. But me and remember going on my first recruiting trip there, had a lot of the local talent there. This is that weekend then that was probably my first time getting to meet him. You know, besides semen on the sidelines.
- [22:22]
Toby Brooks
Going to crack, you know, famously he was a defensive mind and known for his vaunted desert swarm defenses. And Hawaii's defense was certainly celebrated. You were a quarterback. So coming from the offensive side of the ball, I have to think that there were still lessons you could learn. Even though he wasn't necessarily involved in every aspect of the offensive side of the operation. Were there parts of Coach Tomi's approach that you would say have stuck with you the most?
- [22:51]
Ken Niamantalolo
Yeah, I wouldn't even say Coach told me was a defensive time. The coach told me I knew was more of an orchestrator of a mentality. I mean he was a master psychologist. You know. I mean he was a great motivator. You know, I just, I. That's where I see more. Coach told me just from that standpoint, the one thing that you always knew about our football team, we were going to play hard. I mean we're always a physical team. I Mean, back in those times, we played everywhere. You know, my freshman year, we played Oklahoma. I mean, we played sc, we played Nebraska. You know, there was always a big game there. I think a lot of big schools, youth, I guess they kind of used that last game kind of like the pre bowl game. And so we played some big people there. We had some huge rivalry game versus byu. And so coach told me what I. I took away from him. He was a master of bringing people together. You got to remember, here's his Ali man, the currents of Hawaii. He was able to bring together a locker room, I think of the locker rooms that were probably similar. Maybe in University of Utah, you know, just. Just the blend of it from might be the closest, but we had a third Polynesian local kids or maybe a third of black kids from California and maybe Texas in some other area, and a third white. You know, I mean, so, you know, all these different races there. And Coastal Meg was unbelievable at bringing everybody together. I mean, we were really, really close to the football team. And that was him. You know, I mean, I love his meetings that he had. I think back to some of the meetings that he had used to everything. And then the pie drill that he used to. And there are phenometers. And I just remember the first one. Basically there were circles drawn in the field. And I had no idea what those circles were about. But I guess guys doing that before north, as soon as that horn went off, everybody ran pure specific circles, like a small circle, like a miniaturized sumo ring or just a pin circle there. And he would tell different positions, like the db wide receivers, you guys are at this circle, you know, titans and outside line bracket. You guys go to that circle or whatever. And then you basically like, um, it's like sumo. You have to knock your guy out of the ring. The most amazing thing is then eventually you get to your, you know, the one of you circle, then eventually your. Your. Your team winner. And I saw that stuff like, wow, this guy was awesome. And bringing guys together. But a lot of us football players, you know, you have, you know, we have a couple of group text that we still text each other. You know, guys that play for Coach to me, play for Coach Wagner, played for Coach Ellison Coach, you know, and they really love that, man. Yeah, but I think the thing about Hawaii, that's really. I don't put this. I want to say skeptical is the right word, but if you're a mainland person come to island people kind of look out main date. It takes a while to kind of get Excited, you know what I mean? What are your motors? Korean people, our team, everybody embraced Coach Blooming. Yeah, I know the people, Hawaii embraced them. The players embraced them. He was a hard coach. He held people accountable, you know what I mean? But I think he told people why he did things. So I know the. I. I mean, I took so many lessons and from, I think the biggest ones that I've taken just, you know, how he made our team a fan.
- [26:55]
Toby Brooks
Yeah.
- [26:55]
Ken Niamantalolo
So number one, just how he, you know, brought all these different people together, made them one. I love the toughness part of our team that we wouldn't back down from anybody. Another one that we rugged to. The football coach told me, you know, he would always text me or call me after games, and it was always kind of fun to hear. You know, when I was the head coach at the Naval Academy and he was, hey, Ken, good game, or, you know, watch the game, guys do all these things. I remember one time he texted me or called me and said, hey, Ken, I watched your game, great game, you guys play hard. And I said, thank you, coach. You know, I tried to be dismissive of that coach, move on. And he goes, no, no, I want you play hard. And I had to, you know, step back and think this was a probably the greatest compliment I could get because it was coming from him, who preached that he wasn't coming from a sports broadcaster. This was coming from Coach told me that one of his pinnacles was toughness and effort and running to the football. And for him to kind of give me the, you know, seal of approval, so to speak, that my pains played hard and we ran to the ball with a two compliment.
- [28:12]
Toby Brooks
Yeah, absolutely. I think you touched on where I was headed next. My recent guest was Maggie lacambra, who was actually my boss at Arizona, one of the first female Division 1 head athletic trainers. Her predecessor, Sue Hillman, was probably the first female head football athletic trainer and worked under coach Tomi. I've also had Jesse Sapolu, Mike Flores, Dino Babers, people from all different walks of life. Right. And so this is coming from, like you said, a little white guy from Indiana, a mainlander. From your perspective, what do you think it was about him that allowed him to knit together teams of such different people? I mean, there's a leadership lesson in there, whether you're a football coach or not. Being able to pull people from all different walks of life together for a common purpose is an exceptional thing that he did.
- [29:03]
Ken Niamantalolo
It was his heart. I mean, you. He. He was who he was. You know, I Mean. And like I said, he wasn't always nice. He would get on people and what I think people, you know, embrace them. I know people in the lock them, embrace them. Because we all love them, because we believe. And we trusted him, you know, I mean, again, and it wasn't all running games either. It wasn't like, you know, he was nice to everybody. He got active. But I think people trusted him. And that'd be more than anything I could say when I get back. Like, you know, people know why. You know, when you see people come from mainland, you know, just hang with these people and what are their motives. But with him, it's really clear. You're just really clear where he was. He just wanted what's best for our football program. He has done what's best for us. And so to me, the leadership stuff is Coach told me he was who he was. Just the parody was, he wasn't a fake, he wasn't a phony. He spoke the truth to you. And I think that's probably his heart. Yeah, he was a truthful man. And, you know those. I think that's what it was. Yeah.
- [30:16]
Toby Brooks
One of the quotes that's come up multiple times is, and he would say this to you, I love you so much. I'm going to tell you the truth. Like, he wouldn't sugarcoat it. And that's how you grow. It doesn't do anyone any favors if. If we just pile on platitudes now that you're at San Jose State, this is a place Coach tell me once led and some would even say saved Spartan football like it was on the precipice of being cut. And he leads that team to a bowl game. What do you see his legacy carrying on both in you and in the program?
- [30:48]
Ken Niamantalolo
Well, I think, you know what, hopefully some of my style of coaching is similar to his. You know what I mean? Just hopefully the way I treat players is similar to the way Coach told me is. And hopefully the players that I coach feel the same way about me that we did with what coach told me. And I think that's it. You know what I mean? It's not about the wins and the losses. It's about hopefully you've gained respect from the players, just like our respect for Coach Tommy he earned because of who he was. And so I guess, hopefully the way I live and hopefully the way I coach pays respect to the man that, you know, I started coaching then. I mean, it's called football. Yeah.
- [31:35]
Toby Brooks
And there is now a traveling trophy between UH and San Jose State. Is that correct?
- [31:41]
Ken Niamantalolo
Yes, but we haven't. So we didn't play them last year, but we play uh, this year, so.
- [31:48]
Toby Brooks
Great. Any funny stories? I mean like you said, he was tough, hard nose, but, but certainly a guy that didn't take himself overly serious. And I've had guests share some incredible stories of just the human side of the man. Any stories that come to mind when I ask you about that?
- [32:05]
Ken Niamantalolo
Well, just another. I think about back about some of the stuff like there's some stuff like he, I mean he. One game he got pissed like he was knocking down the, the, the chalkboard. He got after coach Fag, our offensive coordinator, I mean just lit into him and then he lit into our, our quarterback, you know, because you know about how to set his feet on the screen. And I always remember this, you know, just like talking about setting his feet on the screen like before you drift attention detail, you know what I mean? And got after him and got after the. Once he got up to the quarterback, then he got off the court of that coach called Sag me the offense coordinator. Gosh. But then I come to find out later on just somebody said like it was off stage, you know what I mean? So you know, of course something's not back in the first leg eight. They I'm gonna get on you today. Trying to teach a bigger lesson that hey, everybody's, we're all in this. Nobody's absolved of, of criticism. So it was a great story for me about accountability that you hold everybody accountable. But I just thought that was funny because wait a minute. That whole thing was staves and if. Yeah, that's all cold, you know, I mean you just had this, you know, all of us fooled on that and yeah, I didn't find out two years later that, you know. Yeah, yeah. Because man, remember that time coach told me that I was telling somebody who's on the staff like, oh, that. No, we were prepared for that. We talked about that in staff meeting before. Like, oh yeah, that was the spur of the moment, right?
- [33:45]
Toby Brooks
Well, in interviewing Coach Brennan, we kind of talked about how they don't give you an owner's manual to be a head coach and how important coach told me was in his transition from an assistant or a coordinator to a full time job. Rip said the same thing where he was just an active. Like he would seek out folks to mentor them. Did he serve in that capacity for you? And if so, what do you recall from that?
- [34:10]
Ken Niamantalolo
We talked a lot. You know, I've been a head coach for 17 years. And we talked a lot. And there was a lot of times he would call me. He'd be walking in Diamond Head, you know, because I could hear him breathing, like, yeah, I'm back home. I'm walking. And we would just talk. He would tell me things, things he saw, you know, things that I couldn't prove on. And I always. I mean, I obviously was. I would always all ears, you know, I mean, so I always appreciated that. And so whenever coach told me called, I always picked the phone up and, you know, and I was always appreciative of him reaching out to me. You know what I mean? That he was. Even during his busy times, you know, because even though when he stopped coaching, he was involved with a lot of things, you know, whether it's helping the University of Arizona or San Jose or Hawaii. He spent a lot of time back home, you know, did a lot of going to the people there. And so we spoke a lot, you know, about a lot of things. And, you know, just, you know, I sure. Like I said, or for his book, I just remember just, you know, just the influence that he has. And I mean, just. I didn't realize. Not a lot of stuff. I didn't realize. I didn't realize the attention of taking care of the football was a big coach Tomi thing cranes that we used to do. Well, I just thought. He just. Coach told me and I was petrified of him. But we had to do marquee rolls. You know, be honest with you. I look back at it now, like, okay, what purpose does it serve? You know, because you're like. You jump over and you're to land on that shoulder and kind of rolled. Go back and forth. And so instead of trying to brace her hand, you know, I mean, just try to make sure that you always had the tip up. And I hated that drill, you know, but when he was barbecuing me and Yamato. Do it again, do it again. And underneath my breath, I was just cursing.
- [36:12]
Toby Brooks
I mean, as a quarterback would Dumb drill.
- [36:17]
Ken Niamantalolo
What are we doing this morning? But I mean, I wasn't saying that out loud. It's kind of going back and forth. But coaches that know me now know I go ballistic if the tip is enough. Yeah. And got back from. Coach told me, like, the ball. Everything was about the ball. Yeah. Carry the football. And so, like I said, I didn't recognize it. When I started coaching, like I had called coach told me, like, they could really think about boss. It was already ingrained.
- [36:44]
Toby Brooks
Right.
- [36:45]
Ken Niamantalolo
And I've had several defensive Coordinators in my time and they've all had different schemes. And I don't tell guys what to do with the one non negotiable is running to the football. Yeah, yeah, we are going to run to the football. And that's Coach told me. That's. That's coach told me. And so again, I don't call Coach told me when I got hired. AK Coach, what are some things you should do on defense? It was already ingrained in there that we were going to have 11 guys swarming the football, right, as we call Wheaton, that were just swarming, intimidate, you know, and just that was going to be us. And that was put on his soul. You know, the influence that he had in my coaching, a lot of it was already ingrained. You know, just having played for him and been around him, I didn't necessarily have to call him on some of those things.
- [37:41]
Toby Brooks
To hear that it was ingrained. There's a leadership lesson right there. When the culture is clear, when the standards are written down and shared and repeated and communicated, and the expectations are consistently upheld and protected not just from above by the leadership, by the coaches, but from within, by the players or the teammates or the staff members, the curriculum takes care of itself. For Kenny, those lessons came in the form of non negotiables and principles that he still insists on to this day. On offense, protect the football lesson there, don't drop it. Pay attention. Details matter. And on defense, swarm and intimidate every guard up every time. No exceptions. Because as coach Tomi said, you're either coaching it or you're allowing it to happen. Today I lead a team that probably cringes a little every time I pull out yet another sports metaphor. My direct reports include three pro PhDs, one's in chemistry, two in religion. None of them really care about ball security in the office. But that raises the question, as a leader, what am I ingraining in them? What expectations am I modeling or reinforcing or protecting? So that when they go somewhere else or when I go somewhere else for whatever reason, we go our separate ways, they carry that culture with them. That, my friend, is the mark of great leadership. And that's exactly what Coach Tillmey delivered to his staff, his players, and his people every day for decades. And it stuck.
- [39:28]
Ken Niamantalolo
And what I look back at it now is a closer. I grow just as ballistic as he does for Dick also. And, you know, but that's just. I learned from him. Yeah. You know, and, you know, if we don't run to the Football, we don't. Our pursuit drills don't look like what we looked at Hawaii. We're going to talk to our coordinate. Hey guys, you can run whatever you want. Three down, four down front. But that we're always in Merck. That's not going to be something we're going to, you know, that's a non negotiable. Yeah.
- [40:00]
Toby Brooks
For me I got to Arizona in 98, which just happened to be the best season in school history. Still is to this day. My last season there was 2000, which was coach Tomi's last season with the team. So for him to go from a hero unranked in the preseason to number four in the country winning the Holiday bowl And then in 99 it kind of did the opposite. Preseason, number four unranked in the end and then 2000, so close to having a successful season. But one play here, one play there and ultimately he gets pushed out two years after the best season in school history. Knowing what I know about him and what I've learned about him, what have you taken from his career or maybe what's some advice he's given you about the business side of coaching and how you can be the hero one season and be on the hot seat the next. What have you taken from his personal experience that maybe he shared with you along the way?
- [40:56]
Ken Niamantalolo
Well, I don't know if you'd actually use the words. I know a lot of people talk about it now. Transactional leadership. Coach told me it wasn't about transaction stuff like you said. Even though back in the 70s and 80s that's not what you called it. You know, everybody has these fancy terms now. Hey, you know, people are transactional leaders. They only look at results and that kind of stuff. I don't think coach, Coach told me stuff was about changing people lives and he recognized that, yeah, you have to win in this profession to stay employed. But that's not withdrawing, you know what I mean? So even though maybe the wind on the field may not have done to the point which he would like, the lives that he changed, never that never dipped, you know, I mean that never dipped. And his spot of coaching and his who he was as a man, you see that's one thing like again is I think back to him, he was always the same, you know, I mean he always held people accountable. And so just knowing Coach told me, I don't think, I think the thing I learned from him is that's not what it's about. It's about changing people's lives, having an impact on people's lives, having an influence on their lives like he did in so many places like Hawaii, like Arizona and that's another state. And that continued his influence on people's lives. I definitely do with window answers.
- [42:25]
Toby Brooks
Yeah, I completely agree. One thing I've really wrestled with in this docu series and talking to so many people and I know you're dealing with it, you have to re recruit your entire roster every day in this era of transfer portal and nil. And he was the type that would invest years into a student athlete and maybe they're a walk on and it took four or five years for that investment to pay off. What are some lessons we can learn from his era and his approach that are still relevant in 2025 and like you said, in this transactional era where everyone's kind of looking out for what's in it for me?
- [43:04]
Ken Niamantalolo
Well, I think again a lot of it is growing up in Hawaii, just kind of culturally, you know, my background being Samoan and being from Hawaii, my faith being, you know, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ that I was saying. So just my foundation and a lot of it is just ties in with who Coach told me is just cheating people the right way. You know, I mean that was him. And so I, I think relying on some of my background, who I am, stuff that I've learned from Coach told me I think it's helped in 2025 because like you said, having to re recruit guys, I don't feel like I've had to do that. I feel like it just this is who I am. I'm going to talk to everybody. I'm going to talk to the starting quarterback and the backup kicker, you know what I mean? I'm going to talk to our starting, you know, our best pass rusher in our scouting to offensive tackle. You know, the things aren't going to change because maybe now this guy becomes a starter. And so the things that I think that are kind of where I grew up kind of from Coach told me we just treat people, Rose, you know, I mean just treat people right. We've had in this port of time. I find it interesting because we don't have a ton of nil money here at San Jose. We've signed eight Power four kids and basically we have no NIO money. And a lot of these kids came on recruiting visits. Again, these guys came from Power 4 schools and when they left this is the. They all basically totally told me the same thing. Like coach, I think I'm coming, you know, or when they decided to come. So what was your decision? Why do you want to come and say, coach, it feels different here. It just feels different here.
- [44:58]
Toby Brooks
This is what they call social proof, my friend. It's evidence that Coach Niamantalolo and his staff are doing things the right way. I don't think it's a stretch to say that. It also proves Coach Tomi's fingerprints are still all over that San Jose State football program even now in 2025. You heard Coach say it. The Spartans basically have no nil money. Meanwhile, programs like my former institution Texas Tech have spent a staggering55.5 million dollars this year across all sports just this year. And that still doesn't crack the top 10 in NIL spending for Power 4 football. According to my research, schools like Texas have spent 22 million, Ohio State around 20 million, Texas A&M 17.2 on football alone. So if money's not the incentive to get people to go to San Jose, and if the smaller stage of the their Mountain West Conference doesn't sparkle like the Big Ten or the SEC or even the Big 12 or the ACC, then what could a school like San Jose State possibly have to offer recruits? In a word, family. The exact same thing Coach Tomi offered back in the PAC 10 days when UCLA had Hollywood and USC had the Coliseum and Oregon had Nike Flash before everybody else. Coach Thome offered connection, belonging and trust. And that identity showed up on the field. Just like previous guest Mike Flores said about Coach's DBs taking on his fiery competitive edge back at UCLA. When Coach became a head coach, his entire team carried his personality. His players were often overlooked, doubted simply late bloomers. But they had something to prove, had a chip on their shoulder. But when he found them and got them there in his program, they found the time and the support and the family to grow into something special. That sentiment hits home for me in my current role. I spend a lot of time around people whose journeys, I think it's safe to say, look nothing like mine. I hear colleagues talk about childhood summers. Abruptly, I spent many of mine in a hay field picking up bales for a nickel a piece. Today I watched an 18 year old student park a brand new Porsche next to my Honda Civic. Their parents went to private universities. Mine earned their own way through high school. They joined fraternities and prepped for internships. I scraped by on Pell Grants and student loans, working two, sometimes three jobs just to survive at my community college. And it's tempting for me to feel resentful or jealous to ask why the fight seems harder for some of us. But like Coach Tomi proved again and again, and like our guests have shared over and over on this show, there's a real strength in being the underdog with something to prove that grit can be a superpower. Still, when you've had to claw your way up every rung, it can be hard to feel like you belong, even when you've rightfully earned your seat at the table. That's where Coach Ne Amadolo shines, and it's the legacy he carries from both his Hawaiian roots and Coach Tomi. Build a culture where people matter, where effort is honored, where connection beats flash, and where everyone belongs, especially the ones.
- [48:27]
Ken Niamantalolo
Who never expected to like people, care for one another. I can see that these guys came to our practices, like these guys that came on visits came to our practices. And like Coach, it feels like the coaches truly care about the players. And I feel that. And that stuff, you can't put a price on it. So I know those guys came for those reasons. So those same lessons that I learned against them culturally, from who I am, what I learned from the coastal, just treat people the right way. Yeah. People and all works out. And so I know that something right now we're at a school where we have no money. Like I said, we were able to sign 8 Power4Kids with no money. And the reason they came, because they felt the lost spirit. Something like you said, the coach told me, preached and equipped beside his rainbow water.
- [49:20]
Toby Brooks
Coach, it's been a pleasure speaking with you. What do you hope people take away from Coach Dick? Tell me and his story? I mean, he's. He's been gone from us now five, going on six years. And I thought it was really the time to tell this story. I don't want him to be forgotten. This is the life, the lessons and the legacy. And so many people have been so impacted by Coach. Do you hope people take away He.
- [49:46]
Ken Niamantalolo
He might be gone physically, but Coach isn't gone. His life lessons carry on with people that knew him, whether players, coaches, staff members, associates, anybody, you know, been around Coach. Obviously Coach is a huge golfer. People that play with him in golf, just comedy numbers of me and the guys that knew him maybe are in positions or maybe they're in coaching position. They're teaching the same lessons that we learned from Coach Tomi. So his life was perpetuated by the people that knew him. And so I think that's the thing. It's. It's awesome that you're doing this, Toby, to, you know, do you remember? Coach told me, but rest assured, brother, he's not going anywhere. Yeah, his therapy has gone everywhere. And that's the reason I know you're doing this. And yeah, we're, we're all, all of us are humbled and grateful that we had an opportunity to be around this wonderful human being. Yeah.
- [50:49]
Toby Brooks
Well, Coach, thanks so much.
- [50:51]
Ken Niamantalolo
No, you did good, bro. Ken Yamatsalolo and I am undone.
- [50:56]
Toby Brooks
In an era where it seems like every major sports team has a new roster composed of the best players they could get for the most money, I found myself cooling on college sports. This conversation made me a believer. I'm a San Jose State fan. What a gift to sit down with Coach Ken Nema Dalolo, a man who leads with heart, humility and conviction. His story is a living echo of the lessons he learned from Coach Tomi. And his leadership today, I think is proof that that legacy isn't just something you leave behind, it's something you live out. Coach Tomi didn't just win games. He built men and families and culture. He built a legacy that's still shaping lives and teams long after he left the field for the last time. And you heard it today through Coach Diamantalolo's words, through his coaching philosophy, through the program he's built at San Jose State. That kind of culture doesn't just happen by accident. It's on purpose, purpose for a purpose. It happens when the leader decides that people matter more than power, that values matter more than hype, and that long term impact is worth the cost of the slow, steady investment. I'm thankful to Coach Niamontololo for dropping in today and hope you enjoyed our conversation. If that type of leadership resonates with you, if you're trying to lead in a way that lasts, I love to be part of your journey, whether you're a coach or an educator. Building culture from the ground up. A business leader trying to align your team with purpose or somebody, maybe who's in the midst of transition yourself wondering what's next and how to rebuild. Offer keynotes, workshop and one on one coaching built around the very principles that Coach told me lived every day and that I've developed over decades of working with high achievers, including now 125 episodes of this show alone. People first leadership. Clarity of purpose. Relentless pursuit of growth. If you'd like more info on today's show, head on over to UndonePodcast.com EP125 for show notes, photos and bonus content from today's episode. While you're there, drop me a line. Let's talk about how I can serve your team, your event, or even your own development. Quick bit of news. The show continues to grow and this week we peaked at number 17 globally for education and number 13 globally for self improvement on Apple Podcasts. So be sure to tell a friend. Share an episode, Dig back through the whole catalog. Binge as many episodes as you want as you listen in about how high achievers didn't let failure or setback stand in the way of their eventual victory. We're getting near the end, friend. Just two more episodes to go in this series. Next time on Becoming Undone, I was blessed with the opportunity opportunity to sit down with Coach's wife, Nancy Kincaid. An established author herself. She's an absolute delight. I am quite sure all of Coach's former players and staff will get a kick out of hearing Nancy share some cherished memories of Coach Tomi's softer side that you won't want to miss. And after that, we'll wrap this whole little excursion up by revisiting with Coach's son, Rich to summarize what we've learned, what the shows may be triggered in our own lives, and what we can do with this refreshed knowledge of one of the absolute best leaders I've ever seen in the flesh. This and more. Coming up on the life lessons and legacy of Coach Dick Tomey and Toby Brooks Passion Project. And after that, stick around. I've got a number of incredible guests lined up for Becoming Undone. Becoming Undone is a nitro hype creative production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. Follow along on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn at becomingundonepod and at tobyjbrooks. Check out my link tree at linktr EE backslash tobyjbrooks. Subscribe and leave me a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio or wherever you're listening now. This is Toby Brooks reminding you that you don't have to lead alone. You don't have to rebuild alone. And you were never meant to become undone alone. So until next time, be purposeful, be relentless, come back and let's keep on becoming undone.