Podcast Summary: "Becoming UnDone" with Toby Brooks

Episode 153 | Matt Sayman's Journey from Baylor Basketball Scandal to Redemption
Released: March 29, 2026

Overview

This episode of Becoming UnDone features a powerful conversation between host Dr. Toby Brooks and Matt Sayman, the former Baylor basketball player and current head boys basketball coach at Midway High School in Waco, Texas. The discussion centers on Matt’s firsthand experience navigating the infamous Baylor basketball scandal of 2003—the murder of teammate Patrick Dennehy, the revelations of NCAA violations, and the abrupt collapse of a promising team. The episode delves into themes of identity, perseverance, loss, faith, and the unexpected ways in which “undone” seasons can become the foundation for future greatness—not just for programs but for the people who endure them.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Early Dreams and Sacrifice (06:57–12:05)

• Matt’s origin story: From age 9, with the encouragement of a skills coach in Pennsylvania, Matt developed clear, step-by-step basketball goals: make the freshman A team, varsity as a sophomore, and D1 basketball.
• Family commitment: The Sayman family moved from Pennsylvania to Texas so Matt could pursue his basketball dream, a move described by Matt as “game-changing” for his future.
  • Quote: “My dream became my parents dream. And the only reason they would do that is they saw how serious I was. It wasn’t just a hobby.” (11:06, Matt Sayman)
• Recruitment: Matt was ultimately recruited by Baylor after being made to feel wanted and integral to Coach Dave Bliss’s plans—contrasting with colder recruiting experiences elsewhere.

Living the Dream... Then the Nightmare (12:05–20:51)

• Career at Baylor: Matt worked his way into a major role, at one point holding the school record for games played.
• Identity question: When asked about his identity during early college years, Matt admits he would’ve said “Christ follower” but on a deeper level, basketball was his primary identity.
  • Quote: “If you rip open my chest, I think there was a basketball there.” (18:36, Matt Sayman)

The Scandal: Shock and Fallout (20:51–34:03)

• Summer 2003: A professor calls Matt and tells him to turn on the TV—a teammate is missing, and there’s talk of homicide.
• The world unravels: The murder of Patrick Dennehy by teammate Carlton Dotson and the subsequent exposure of years of NCAA violations under Coach Bliss becomes a scandal that rocks college sports.
• Personal impact: Matt loses 10 teammates in a single summer due to death, incarceration, and transfers, and becomes a reluctant public face for a disgraced program.
  • Quote: “I lost 10 teammates that summer... going into your senior year... now everything is crashing down.” (32:07, Matt Sayman)
• Isolation and loss: Campus and Waco community turn cold. Matt finds himself wanting out, fielding interview requests from the media—he feels like an outsider.

Enter Scott Drew: A New Beginning (34:03–43:05)

• Coach Scott Drew hired: At age 32, Drew arrives, full of optimism, preaching culture-first, “we’re building for the future” energy—against all odds.
  • Quote: “He comes in almost jogging—so much energy... talking about building for the future. I didn't want to hear that. I wanted 'the future is now.'” (34:36, Matt Sayman)
• Cultural clash: Drew’s positive, hug-filled, music-drenched practices are the polar opposite of the previous regime—Matt, conditioned by fear-based leadership, finds it foreign and even unserious.
  • Quote: “I was used to a Bobby Knight type of environment... Coach Bliss said, 'I'm not your friend. You have enough friends.' Coach Drew and his assistants were all about positivity and culture.” (40:36, Matt Sayman)
• No postseason possible: Immediate NCAA sanctions mean no March Madness, draining any sense of progress.

Hitting Rock Bottom and Searching for Identity (44:12–52:55)

• After basketball: At the end of college and a brief pro stint in Iceland (derailed by off-court partying habits formed in crisis), Matt finds himself purposeless, working retail, cycling through jobs and feeling lost.
• Spiritual confessions: Matt shares how, in frustration and guilt, he distances himself from faith, blaming God while also knowing the truth of his upbringing (“...this wasn’t the life God had for me, but there was that anger piece—why’d you let that stuff happen?”) (52:55, Matt Sayman).
• Turning point: At age 30, alone and adrift, he visits a random church, fills out a visitor card, and is challenged by a pastor to “give up control” and take accountability for his decisions. The woman who replied to his email later becomes his wife, Jana.
  • Quote: “He told me, you gotta look and take accountability for the decisions that you've made–which I never had done up to that point.” (55:38, Matt Sayman)

Redemption and Perspective (59:30–65:06)

• Watching Baylor win: Matt shares the emotional experience of watching Baylor win the 2021 national championship, recognizing for the first time that his “insignificant” season as one of the “leftovers” actually laid the foundation for later success.
  • Quote: “For years after that, my senior year, I thought nobody cared, that it was just this horrible, dark time... Years later, I realize: the showing up, the staying, the competing when everything was falling apart—that was the foundation for that championship.” (59:30, Matt Sayman)
• Reframing legacy: Former teammates and chaplains acknowledge the crucible year’s importance. Matt acknowledges later teams as the face of Baylor’s resurgence, but values the “leftovers” as the bedrock.
  • Quote: “To be a small part of that championship is humbling, really cool—especially when, for almost the entire season, I thought it didn’t matter.” (62:39, Matt Sayman)

Writing the Book and Moving Forward (65:26–73:13)

• Book genesis: Inspired by other stories of role players, Matt writes The Leftovers: Baylor Betrayal and Beyond, driven by a desire to show the unglamorous but critical experiences of non-star athletes. The book’s eventual message is only complete with his later spiritual and personal restoration.
  • Quote: “I wanted the book to be three things: a blueprint for the average kid to make college hoops, surviving as a role player, and then our leftovers story... but until Jana, I didn’t really have the end of the book.” (67:57, Matt Sayman)
• The creative process: Matt emphasizes authenticity and vulnerability, rejecting ghostwriting and focusing on telling the real, at times uncomfortable, story.

Final Reflections: What’s “UnDone”? (74:45–79:53)

• On legacy and purpose: Matt doesn’t worry about legacy or unfulfilled grand ambitions; instead, his focus is on being faithful and present every day for those around him—his players, his family, and his relationship with God.
  • Quote: “I think I’m just becoming. I just try to be faithful each day... If I keep doing that day after day, then I’ll keep becoming.” (76:27, Matt Sayman)
• Song pick for his life’s montage: “Take My Life” by Jeremy Camp, representing the fierceness and surrender that have defined his journey. (73:13–74:14)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On feeling unwanted and lost:
  “But inside, I was the exact opposite. Wanted to get out of there. Matt Saman here, and I am undone.” (01:53, Matt Sayman)

• On faith and honesty:
  “I think I would have given you the answer that I’m supposed to say... but the honest answer is basketball.” (18:27, Matt Sayman)

• On culture shock with Scott Drew:
  “There’s music in practice... Hugging, smiling... I was used to a Bobby Knight type of environment. My first practice with Coach Bliss literally: ‘I’m not your friend. You have enough friends. I’m here to coach you.’ I don’t know if I ever hugged Coach Bliss.” (40:36, Matt Sayman)

• On laying the foundation for Baylor’s future:
  “Pastor Weibel grabbed me and said, ‘Look out at the floor. This wouldn’t be possible if not for what you guys did.’” (59:30, Matt Sayman) “To be a small part of that championship is humbling, really cool—especially when, for almost the entire season, I thought it didn’t matter.” (62:48, Matt Sayman)

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |----------------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 06:57–12:05 | Matt’s early goal setting and the move to Texas | | 12:05–18:22 | College recruitment, landing at Baylor | | 18:22–20:51 | Identity, faith, and being honest about priorities | | 20:51–34:03 | The Baylor scandal breaks; personal and team fallout | | 34:03–43:05 | Scott Drew’s arrival and a clash of cultures | | 44:12–52:55 | Losing love for basketball, post-college struggle | | 52:55–58:22 | Spiritual low point and redemption | | 59:30–65:06 | Watching Baylor win in 2021 and reframing the “leftovers”| | 65:26–73:13 | Writing The Leftovers, authenticity in storytelling | | 74:45–79:53 | On what’s left “undone”; daily faithfulness, not legacy |

The Episode’s Tone & Takeaways

Matt Sayman’s story is a raw, unfiltered look at the disintegration and slow rebuilding of both a promising life and a basketball program. The tone is honest and vulnerable, marked by pain, humility, and ultimately, hope. Both guests foreground the value of perseverance in seasons that feel insignificant and underscore the invisible impact of showing up even when it seems to matter least.

“For most of that season, Matt thought it didn’t matter, that it was just this dark chapter nobody would want to remember. Years later, he saw: those seasons are sometimes foundations for everything that follows.” (81:46, Toby Brooks)

Socials & Resources

• Matt Sayman’s book: The Leftovers: Baylor Betrayal and Beyond (available on Amazon)
• Matt’s Podcast: [Jamoti Podcast]
• Instagram & X/Twitter: @mtsaman

Conclusion

This episode underlines the Becoming UnDone ethos: the unraveling isn’t the end of the story—it’s often the beginning of a comeback. Matt Sayman’s journey—from childhood dreamer, to scandal survivor, to coach, husband, and author—illustrates how rock bottom can be the bedrock for something greater. His message: keep showing up, even when the stands are empty and the future invisible, because you may be laying a foundation you can’t yet imagine.

For more information on this episode and other stories of resilience and redemption, visit undonepodcast.com.