← Biohacking Beauty: The Anti-Aging Skincare Podcast
Biohacking Beauty: The Anti-Aging Skincare Podcast
Joni Laiho: The #1 Mistake in Anti-Aging Skincare (Fix This First)
01:08:29
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The podcast where we simplify the science of youthful aging and give you real tools to upgrade your skin, your health and your life. All backed by cutting edge biohacking strategies. I'm your host, Amita Eshel, CEO of Young Goose, the biohacking style skincare company that's transforming how we think about aging. Whether you're battling fine lines, acne, or just looking for the next level glow, we've got your back. Today. Our guest is Yoni Leho, a true pioneer in the world of nutritional supplements and gut health. With over 17 years of experience and more than 100 high performing product formulations under his belt. Yoni is the founder of Thera Nordic and a serious authority on the gut skin connection. In this episode, we're diving deep into the gut skin axis. What it is, how it affects aging and inflammation, and what you can do today to start healing your skin from the inside out. You'll learn why gut health and skin health are inseparable. How to treat skin conditions like acne, eczema, rosacea or even aging and wrinkles by targeting the gut and effective research backed ways to repair a leaky gut for long term beauty benefits. Plus, if you love this podcast and want to watch upgrade your skincare routine, we've got a special treat for you. Head to yungoos.com and use code PODCAST10 at checkout to get 10% off your order. All right, let's get into this podcast with Yoni Leho. Okay, Yoni, welcome to the biohacking Beauty podcast. It's. It's a pleasure having you here.
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A
Thank you very much.
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B
Amitay, you talk a lot about the gut skin axis. So for people who are new to the term, what exactly is it and why should we care about it?
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A
Yeah, well, that's a, that's a good question. It's basically. I usually talk about gut everything axis because it affects so many things on our body. But the thing people don't normally think of is that actually the skin we have here is our outer skin and basically the gut lining is our inner skin. So basically they mirror each other and there are similarities between them. And basically what happens inside will reflect to the outside as well. So that's why it's so important. Because what you do with your gut then basically. Well, some people are more robust. They can do anything with their gut and it just doesn't show in their skin. But then in most cases you will see in your skin, if not right away, then a bit later on. If your gut health isn't optimal Yeah.
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B
I am assuming it's. It's a. Like anything else. It's a bell curve of people where most people are going to show, you know, significant signs, some people are going to show less signs, and some people are going to be like hyper reactive where exactly anything comes, you know, anything.
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A
Same with allergies and everything. It's always like some people are more sensitive to show. But for example, some people, when their gut health isn't optimal, they will. It's going to be joint pain or some people, it will be brain fog. And then some people, it's going to be skin.
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B
So what are some of the early signs that your gut is messing up, messing with your skin?
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Well, I think there are several things like. Well, of course, just adult acne might be one.
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B
Yeah.
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And of course atopic dermatitis is one that's connected to gut issues. Psoriasis is one that's connected to gut issues. And almost any chronic skin condition. Like there's more and more literature in the scientific realm coming out all the time that connects all the chronic skin conditions somehow to the gut. So basically, if it's chronic, then we should look into the gut.
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Yeah, I agree. There is a company, they actually have a product. The company is called Crown Labs. Very interesting company. And they had a study that showed that they can flood the skin with acne that is traditionally blamed at acne causing bacteria, but that it depended on the immune response of the host of the person, which is connected to gut health. Obviously.
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Yes.
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B
So people with that would. That their immune system would have classically not reacted to a little bit of acne, a acne or p. Acne bacteria that's not going to react to it and vice versa. So that was. I think it's very interesting. And we obviously see it also with a more general aging. Right. We see it with things because I think most people don't think of the immune system as a driver of aging. And we see it even with like senescent cells in the skin. We see it with many collagen production, obviously everything.
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Yeah. And there is even a term. I don't know if this term is like actual scientific term, but somebody coined it anyway. And it's like inflammaging.
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Technically. It's supposed to be, it's supposed to be a hallmark of aging already.
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Yeah, yeah. It's like basically inflammation aging, but the chronic inflammation will drive aging.
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B
Yeah.
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So. So there is a link to it. And I think we will cover now as we talk. What, what, what are the drivers? How, how this Actually happens. But, yeah, definitely it affects aging.
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B
So would you say as a. As a blanket term or. Or let's say, is it possible to heal chronic skin conditions without directly treating the skin?
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Yes.
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Meaning from. Yeah.
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Yeah. We actually this. Well, we have a lot of. We have thousands of clients because we are a gut health company. And a lot of people, Many, many people come to us when they have tried quite a few of the options, and they have tried also the topical corticosteroids and all that kind of tried the heavy, heavy weapons, and then they help for a while, and then usually the condition come back with the vengeance.
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Mm.
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So and then as a last resort, like, let's try the gut.
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Yeah.
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And. And we can transform a lot of those cases. Yeah. Sometimes they're older people, but we have had very young people as well. I think youngest week I can remember was 3 years old who had such a bad case of, like, atopic skin all over, and he couldn't take any more corticosteroids. Basically, his body was. Was going really bad way from all the medication. And. And then we started with just gut health protocol, and it was about six weeks, and the mother was sending us pictures all the time.
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B
Wow.
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Started to just go away, and the kid is all right now.
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Wow.
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So, yeah, there. It's totally possible.
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B
Wow, that's. That's interesting. And looking at the other side of it, you know, when I go on podcasts, a lot of people are asking me, you know, what is the, you know, the one biohacking strategy that most people overlook when it comes to skin rejuvenation or, you know, delaying skin aging? And definitely in my top three, I would say is. Is gut health as far as. Even as getting skin rejuvenation results, Would you agree with that? Do you think people overlook it in their strategy for better appearance? At the end of the day, I.
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Think they do because it's kind of. You need to be a bit deeper in the game to understand the connection.
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Yeah.
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And sometimes it takes a little while to kick in. So even if you try to heal your gut a, you might not know what to do. Like, you read all these conflicting advice from Internet and think that, okay, maybe I should do this or this, and not really sure if this is even helping, then maybe you just don't actually follow through. That's. So I don't blame people or for not actually trying to heal the gut because it's a little bit hard to understand.
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Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, us as human beings, it's very difficult for us to perceive a incremental change. Right. We want quick fixes. And in the gut it is the quintessential incremental change at the end of the day, and I'm sure we're going to get more into that. But at the end of the day we're trying to create like a tidal shift of or a statistical shift in bacteria, which could be, I mean it is literally a work of balance.
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Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that is true. Well, you said it.
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Yeah. So within that if someone's using, you know, anti aging, longevity, biohacking, skincare, but not like I'm gonna say a statement, I wonder if you believe if it's true. Would you say not addressing the gut. Let's say there are, let's assume you know, because now we know it is a hallmark of aging, the shifting of bacteria in the gut. Would you say that having a skin anti aging strategy without a component of gut health would be. Then we would be wasting money basically.
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Yeah, I would say so. At least partially it's true. Because basically some of the things can only happen from inside out. You would be just trying to fight back the inevitable, but only from one side. So I think you should do both. Both. Yeah, definitely.
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Yeah. So really, what does change with age in our gut? Bacteria. Why? Why and how does it look like?
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A
Well, actually the gut bacteria is a population that basically is a mirror of our life. So how you have lived your life until this moment defines which kind of composition of bacteria you have in your gut. And when you start to change something, let's say you start exercising, or you start to eat more fiber, or you start to eat more sugar or whatever, it will start to change how the microbiome looks like. And for example, first it might be that if you try to start exercising, your gut microbiome isn't a microbiome of an exercising person. So it will fight back. This sounds a little weird, I know, but that's true. But overall, over time when you just keep exercising, your microbiome actually start to change into different kind of microbiome that actually likes exercise and then it gets easier to exercise. So at first our microbiome can be like a drag that you need to pull it, but after a while it starts to get lighter and then it's the healthy habits gets to start to get easier. The same goes with diet or anything. So this just as a backdrop for what happens with aging.
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Yeah.
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So basically I would say that the better you have treated the gut microbiome, the healthier aging your the healthier your aging is going to be. That was more like that.
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Yeah. And do you think, you know, so. So you mentioned exercise. There's obviously a book that I love, which is called Atomic Habits. I think most people have read it by now, and I think, you know, anyone listening to this podcast knows that I have one addiction, and it is. And it is Jiu Jitsu. So if I don't, it's either I fight people or I fight wrinkles, One of the two. And a lot of the times, if you're trying to get someone to exercise, or obviously if you're trying to convert them to the religion of Jiu Jitsu or anything like that, in the beginning, it's very important that they just show up. It's very important that they just go through the motions, that they just build a habit of, you know, getting their body from point A to point B. They're there, and then they don't. They don't actually have to do anything. But you grease the groove, you. You build the habit, and then things happen. Is there a mirror of that in the. In the microbiome as well?
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Or.
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Or is it more the actual, you know, exercise, the action that would cause the change?
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Of course, both. But there is the role of microbiome, the bacteria that live inside us. It's. It's much more than we think.
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Yeah.
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It's basically how we live defines the microbiome, and then in turn, the microbiome makes us stick to that, whatever it was. So. And that's why. That's also one reason why starting Jiu jitsu or going to gym or doing something different than your microbiome was used to. It's hard because they. They literally have this red line, like they can pick up a phone in your donuts, and then you want a donut, and you think you actually want it, but it's the bacteria that want it. So they. They influence our lives so much. There's so many, like, even scientific examples, we can maybe do them later on, but. But how much they affect what we do. So at least partially, whatever healthy new thing you start. One reason why it's difficult at first is that the guys who live inside you, they don't agree at first, but then they will modify and change, and then it gets easier. So that's really. Because we must remember, there is the population inside the human colon is, if you take all of humankind, like about 8 billion people, it's 5,000 times that.
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Yeah.
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So it's a massive population. And they do actually have their word to say on how we live.
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B
Yeah, they are in mass. They are more than any other category in our body. Right?
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Yeah. Basically we have more bacterial cells in us than we have human cells.
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B
Yeah, that's true. When we say that, do we account for like organelles as well, like mitochondria, when we say that?
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No, actually only the cells of colon, basically only the ones that are in the intestine. That's human body has about 30 billion cells and there are about 38, 40 billion bacteria in the colon itself.
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Wow. So democratically, we're bacteria, you know, Bacteria.
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Yeah. I used to say that if some alien would come and put a human in some sort of scanner that would show the DNA, it would show 1% human and 99% bacteria, because 23andMe alien style.
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B
Yeah, very cool. So let's talk about something. You know, we mentioned very briefly the idea of interaction with our immune system, and that is due to the increased gut permeability. What is now called leaky gut.
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Right. Yeah.
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A lot of people are asking us specifically about collagen supplements as a whole. And a lot of the time, a lot of the times our answers are, well, you know, they help, but not in the way that you think. It's not like your body is then you know, taking it like a. Like a, like stucco, like a, like a piece of like filler and just puts it wherever you want. But mainly it's. It's very healthy for. To rebuild gut lining and gut permeability.
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Yeah.
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So what is your feeling about collagen supplement? Is it some. Is it something that you think is a positive addition to a person's, you know, longevity journey as a whole?
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Um, yeah. To be honest, the, the science around collagen is still quite young.
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Yeah.
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There is promising study and then they say that these like Collagen peptides, type 1 and 3, they are on skin and, and that sort of emerging studies are coming and it looks like there might be something in there. But most of the studies still are funded by companies that sell collagen.
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Yeah.
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So I think when we go like 10 years ahead, there might be much more because collagen is a big thing. So there might be more science like funded on universities. So we might know more than. And sometimes there's another thing, like if I just compare to olive oil. We know olive oil is good for you, but why it actually is good for you, is it because it gets absorbed in the body and the fatty acids do stuff, or is it that the polyphenols of olive oil actually are the favorite stuff of your gut bacteria. And in turn the gut bacteria give you the good stuff that makes you feel better. So I, well, of course I'm, I'm a gut health guy, so I kind of look at the world with that lens. But it looks like the science is supporting quite a bit that many of the things we like many supplements we take actually feed the bacteria.
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Yeah.
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The bacteria in turn do something that will benefit us. They are almost like a gatekeeper. So the bacteria and liver are basically like gatekeepers that they decide what gets in, what gets to do what.
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Yes.
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So I think with collagen as well, because if you think the type 1, type 3 collagen, for example, that's said it's good for skin, that's also good for the epithelium in the gut lining.
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Yes, exactly. Yeah.
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So maybe you are actually healing that and then in turn your skin is just better.
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I agree. That's what, you know, if, if you asked me, that would be my hypothesis because at the end of the day, these are just. First of all, you mentioned something correctly, and we sit with a lot of like longevity molecules where since they pass first through the liver, they mainly improve liver health, whether it is, you know, nad supplements, among other things.
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Yeah.
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And that is, in my opinion, that would be my prediction that that would be the case with collagen as well, where it is getting broken down to its, to the amino acids. And these amino acids are, are being utilized where they are needed, but where they pass through first. So where, where, where they get uptaken and utilized first. So we mainly are, you know, repleting reservoirs that we were deficient in to begin with. And probably that's a great thing because, and I'm sure you would agree with me, there are many of the people that are depleting collagen systemically in their body because they do long range endurance sports, they damage their joints and other areas that need collagen. Many of them have symptoms like ibs, for example, and that is because there is not enough building blocks to go around. So repeating building blocks is a wonderful thing for, for our entire organism.
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Yeah, it is. And I think a lot of the health, be it skin health or organ health or gut health, comes down to amino acids. Actually.
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B
Yes.
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Because there is constant turnover of amino acids about. Well, was it like 3 grams per kilogram of body weight? Like just turns over all the time? Yeah, of course that's not as much what we need from food. We only need a small part of from food. But I think One thing for many people, like an anti aging strategy would be to eat enough, but the right foods, especially good quality protein and give your body a good pool of amino acids to go around.
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B
Yeah.
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Then that will affect a lot of things.
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B
Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Flipping the script on that. What, what, what do you think? What is the biggest myth in our industry, in the longevity wellness industry right now when it comes to gut health or skin health, but really like to gut health.
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A
Oh, the biggest myth. Well, a really big one. Now I know some people will not be very pleased with me when I say this, but probiotics are a little bit overhyped.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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So, so people basically think that, okay, gut health equals probiotics.
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Yeah.
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But many times if we look at the studies again, many of the probiotic bacteria and even the probiotic fungi and all these, they do have a beneficial effect most of the times, unless you have sibo or some other dysbiosis, then they can actually be harmful. So, but let's say if you have about normal situation and you just want to take some probiotics, they act and work just as long as you take the product, but in about five days after you stop the capsules, your levels will get back to normal.
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Yeah.
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So it's a transient effect. It only acts as long as you use them. So I'm a big fan of building the foundation, like putting the foundational work in. And there I, I say that probiotics are not as good thing as we think. And you know, sometimes they might be harmful because people then think, okay, this is my gut health protocol. I took these, take these probiotics and then neglect everything else. But what you actually need, what the bacteria actually crave, is good quality fiber, which is not probiotics, but prebiotics.
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Yeah.
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So good, good quality fiber from, well, vegetables, fruits, berries, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, everything. Everything that has a crunch to it. Basically that's good for your gut because it will diversify the gut microbiome. And if we compare, like. Well, I just said that it's about five days that the probiotic supplement will stay in your gut. But if you take a prebiotic either like a fiber blend or, or you just eat more fiber vegetables and then you stop. The good effect lasts at least a month, but usually it lasts several months.
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B
Yeah.
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So. So basically when you give good food to your bacteria, they thank you. And yeah, that's building foundation.
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I couldn't agree more. And we see it. So obviously our field, your and I field, the, the whatever you want to call that. Right. Like the biohacking longevity field is going through a shift where I believe within three years there will be another name for it because the names that we give it now are going to be uptaken by very, very big companies. And we start see, we start seeing it, for example, Nestle. By the way, that is actually a tip of the cap to Nestle and l' Oreal as far as skincare is concerned because they are, they, they recognize that longevity and biohacking is a field that, that they should invest in because it's easy to sell people who are interested in biohacking and longevity products. So why am I saying all of that? It's because there is a company that got purchased by so Timeline Nutrition got purchased by Nestle and then invested by L' Oreal and $66 million later they are talking about a specific postbiotic that is supposed to cause miracles and it's called Urolithinate. And, and to your point, you know, it's hilarious because when I speak with people I'm like, do you know that there are like urolithin A, B and C, Right? And they're like, no, we didn't know that. You know, you could just have your bacteria make it right and make it in a much more natural way that we actually know that causes something. Because there's the studies around Urlithin, they're actually not that great. But that is that I think is this is the big misconception in our field because we again, it's that it's that incremental effects that we don't like to hear about. But that is mainly we just need to provide the ingredients for your bacteria, assuming it functions correctly to provide what you need.
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A
Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly right. And given that you don't feed the guts like simple sugars for example, or like heavily processed food all the time then and you give it fiber and you give it polyphenols. Like polyphenols mean like the olive oil and the berries and all the colorful and strong tasting fruits, for example. It will self correct, it will take time, but it will get there in the end. Yeah. And that's actually a lasting improvement.
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B
Yeah, yeah, interesting. So going into even like pushing you further, like if you could remove one product off of like the health food or a retail shelf, what product will you remove? What product will you provide a service to the world by removing one?
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A
Do you mean ingredient or one?
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B
Yeah, ingredient or.
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I still think if one. If one, I think it would be sugar. Yeah, yeah, I think sugar. It also Connects. It has so many bad effects. But. But it also has to do with the skin health as well and the accelerated aging with the advanced client products and all that.
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B
Yeah. The best, the best name ever given to a molecule which is age.
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A
Yeah, exactly. So yeah. So yeah. If somebody for example would be interested in okay, how do I fight the wrinkles? Well, don't feed your wrinkles ages.
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B
Yes.
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A
And then maybe use some L carnosine to. To break up the existing ones.
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B
But yes. So L Carnosine. L Carnosine is, is something that, that targets advanced location in products and that's.
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A
That'S one of the rare ones that actually like the, the peptide L Carnosine on its own. Basically about 500 milligrams a day. That is shown to being able to reverse and break down the age caused stiffening of the tissue which will basically be one reason for saggy skin and the lost elasticity.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Basically what happens in there is when. And for wrinkles actually and for these age. Fructose. Fructose is 10 times more potent than table sugar.
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B
Wow.
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To form the age molecules because of.
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B
Humans inability to metabolize it.
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A
I'm actually not sure why, but I just know that that's. It's been shown that fructose. Fructose is just more. It just tends to form those molecules and these molecules age. Once they form, they bind to our collagen. Basically that's called cross linking of proteins. So where normally your proteins are kind of a little bit fluid and they, they are elastic, but the age is where cluster cross link them and they lose their elasticity. So that. And that's not what we want. We don't want it in our joints or tendons, but we don't want it in the skin either. And one of the things that will help it will also massively reduce the progression but also might break the existing bonds is L Carnosine.
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B
Yeah. Interesting.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah. Ages are funny because glycation is like one of the, one of the hallmarks that were kind of added later. They started with like nine hallmarks of aging and then we're like oh, we forgot three more. So here you go. So glycation was one. I mean like, I think it's very cool. A little tidbit there. Taking L carnosine for, for skin health. And you said 500 milligrams like half a gram a day.
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A
Yeah, that's about. You can take 500 to 800 milligrams but it's a well tolerated molecule. So it's nothing there's no side effects basically on it.
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B
So a flip side of that, like what supplement you kind of said, you know probiotics. But is there an ingredient that you think is overhyped? The same way that I, I mean I can mention a few. Like I think we talk a lot about in skincare specifically and you, you mentioned. So for example hyaluronic acid in skincare. Not orally, orally I think it's actually amazing. But in skincare I think hyaluronic acid is like extremely hyped. Is there is any there ingredient as far as you're concerned in supplements that is. That is overhyped.
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A
That is just in context of gut health or overall?
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B
I think in overall. But if you have one in context of gut health it would be great.
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A
I always blank out in these questions but there are some that are overhyped but like. Well to me sometimes feel. Well, it's not really a hype anymore. It was more hype of a while back but vitamin C was a little bit overhyped.
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B
I agree, I agree.
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A
So. So that was a thing. I mean you need, if you, if you're lacking it then you are in trouble, but you don't need that much.
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B
Yes, I think the only. So first of all I couldn't agree more. I think vitamin C, the part of the problem with vitamin C and that could actually relate to gut health is that what we are getting in most supplements. I think it changed in the last few years and we can shout out companies like Quicksilver that are doing a great job with specific types of vitamin C. But I think the vitamin C that we used to get is what we call ascorbic acid which actually is not vitamin C. Like you get it in nature because in nature you get minerals within it. You get some other factors that, that are. That allow your body to interact with it in a natural way. Whereas ascorbic acid is kind of a. A hollowed version of that which actually your body doesn't need that much. If it has enough, it has enough. I think one area would be like if someone is going through a recovery where they need to build a lot of collagen, vitamin C would be necessary then because it is a co factor for collagen production.
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A
Totally. It's. It's a pro part of the matrix. You need.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Needed there when you need to regenerate.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So yeah, I think it has its place and sometimes it could be like conditionally essential.
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B
Yeah, I agree. Hey there.
- [31:45]
C
This is Amitai, co founder and CEO of Young Goose and host of the Biohacking Beauty podcast. I wanted to take a brief moment to share something really special with you, our dedicated listeners. At Young Goose, we've always been about more than just skincare. We are about cellular care. We believe in not just addressing the signs, but truly diving into the very source of skin aging. The reality is, as time goes on, our skin undergoes damage and this damage accumulates gradually, leading to those signs of aging we all see and know very well. But what if we could hit the rewind button? What if we could delve deep, not into the layers of the skin, but into the life sustaining mechanisms of our skin cells? That's exactly what we're doing at Young Goose. We're pioneering a renaissance in skincare by employing principles from regenerative medicine. By rejuvenating and restoring the cellular functions, our products aim to rewind time, gifting your skin a youthful, vibrant glow. And for our Biohacking Beauty listeners, we have a special treat. Head over to Yongoos.com right now and use the code PODCAST10 to get 10% off your first purchase. Discover the magic of truly transformative skincare. And hey, because we value our returning customers just as much, use podcast five on your subsequent purchases to get 5% off. And the best part, the discount. Discount can be combined with subscriptions in our already discounted systems. So why wait? Dive deep into the realm of regenerative skincare with Yungoos and let your skin. Thank you. Remember, it's not not just skin care, it's cellular care. And now back to our conversation.
- [33:49]
B
So let's talk a little bit about protocols that you see work. And you did mention immune responses. We talked about, you know, eczema, or we didn't really say eczema, but like immune responses. And we did talk a little bit about acne. So maybe walk us through a simple gut healing protocol for someone with an immune response, such as eczema or someone with acne.
- [34:20]
A
Yeah, well, I think now we practically start to touch the area of the leaky gut or increased intestinal permeability, which is the correct term. Yeah, so, but maybe I explain a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically what happens in. In the gut, so that we have the small intestine, which is usually the place where. Where the disharm begins. So in small intestine, all the food gets absorbed. All the nutrients we want, they get absorbed in the small intestine. And what separates our body and our immune system and blood circulation from the contents of the small intestine is a Layer with what we call epithelium. And it's only one cell thick. There's only one cell thick, so it's. You couldn't even see the thickness of it. But that one, one cell thick layer basically governs what gets in and what doesn't. It has to stay healthy and it's made. I usually just use my fingers as an example. So let's say we. These are the fingers are the cells and they are tightly together. There's called tight junctions here in between each cell. They're like holding hands. Like you are not passing here. And then only small enough molecules. Let's say instead of proteins, the proteins need to be broken down to amino acids and then they can be absorbed. Or fats need to be broken down to fatty acids, and the fatty acids are small enough to get through. Or carbohydrates need to be broken down to simple sugars and then they can absorb. So when all is good, you only absorb those well enough digested particles. So leaky gut part happens when you have these cells and something happens that they start to separate. So the tight junctions are broken. So there are basically like cracks between those cells. And then like, let's say one of the worst things that can happen is that a bacteria, like an E. Coli, for example, a bacterial cell that already dead and it's already partly digested, it's just flowing there, is like burst open and just floating away. But the part of the bacterial cell slips through, so it's already dead, it cannot do any harm anymore. But it's called an lps, which is a light, well, basically like a polysaccharide. And when it gets through the bloodstream, your white blood cells don't know that it's already dead. They just identify the DNA sequence. Basically, okay, this is an enemy. So the immune system will attack. So and if you think you have on your intestinal lining, if it's irritated or it's inflamed for like from when, like a little bit longer distance, there is a serious leaking going on into the, into the area of the white blood cells. And after a while they will just push the panic button and start attacking. And what happens then is a systemic inflammation. Basically you are attacking your food, which is of course nonsensical. But since you're the immune cells, they don't know that it's not an actual attack. They just think, okay, something's penetrated our defenses and they start to create inflammation. So that's what happens here. And sometimes you might get this leaky gut For a short period of time and that's all right, it will just heal itself and everything's fine. But if you have continuously irritated intestine, you are trickling these undigested food particles and bacteria and everything into the bloodstream and you are in constant state of fight. And that's called low grade inflammation. So you have like low grade inflammation all the time. And then from that low grade inflammation you might start having like the joint pains, the skin problems or the brain fog or anything autoimmune disorders. So the first line to start to heal from any of that is just to make sure that somehow the gut lining gets back to shape.
- [38:51]
B
Got it.
- [38:52]
A
So basically we almost always get back to the fact that if the inner skin is not okay, then the outer skin is not okay.
- [39:02]
B
Yeah, I think it's important to say that these are tissues that when we form a human being, these tissues are actually formed from the same reservoirs of cells. Right, Epithelial cells.
- [39:19]
A
Yeah, they are. And there are, of course there are differences because they are exposed to different things. But there's a lot of similarities in our skin. How the surface of the skin is formed and how the surface of the intestine is formed. So that's just directly mirror each other. But the one thing always is it's both, both in the gut health things and skin health that we need to somehow stop the inflammation. Yeah, like there's continuous inflammation and after a time the inflammation kind of becomes a little bit of self feeding cycle as well. So you need to break the cycle because body is, sometimes it feels like body's own intelligent systems kind of break down a little bit. Like for example, when you have an inflammation in body, inflammation creates more inflammation, which creates more inflammation. And if there's not enough good nutrients in your body there, the kind of kill switch is not there. It just gets worse and worse and worse. This inflammatory cytokines will just get more and more and more. But if your nutritional status is good and you have enough vitamins and minerals and everything in place, your system will decide that okay, this is enough inflammation, let's cut it down. And then it starts to get back down again. Yeah, but when it's been around too long, the chronic inflammation, it takes a little while to actually get to get the fire out. Yeah, but anyway, that's, that was just the base what I would start to fix if I was to fix either gut health or skin health or both. And to what, what to do there. Basically my first thing I always, I, I do say that the long run in the long run, it's food. It's good food choices and avoid the bad food choices. But to get a kickstart on it, I would start with supplements.
- [41:13]
B
Yeah, that's why. So part of the reason I asked you to come on is because I was very impressed with your approach to supplementation. So maybe you could kind of walk us through how you view supplementation, how you view gut health.
- [41:34]
A
Yeah, sure. Well, basically, it's kind of. We're gonna go to the how to section. Yeah, how. How I always do it basically is we start with. There's an amino acid called L glutamine. And L glutamine is an amino acid that your gut lining is craving for. So there's a lot of L glutamine in our body anyway. It's the most abundant amino acid in the body anyway because our immune system uses it as a fuel. But also the whole of gut lining uses it as a fuel. So if there would not be glutamine, then your gut lining cannot renew and then you are in trouble. So to fix the gut lining, we need to supply building blocks to it. And L glutamine, just like as a good quality supplement powder, is something that when you just make a drink and drink it, it will get into your intestine. And especially if your gut lining is not in a good shape, actually none of that glutamine will ever get into your bloodstream because your gut will just eat it all and will immediately use it for rebuilding new gut lining. So. So L glutamine is the first thing if you need to fix the gut lining. So that's. And it takes about 5 grams a day. That's about enough. Sometimes if there's acute damage to the gut lining, then there are doses go even up to 30, 20, 30 grams. But I think they should be done only with somebody like a professional help. But 5 grams, anyone can do. The other thing is a zinc form called zinc, L carnosine. And by the way, it's important to understand that this is different carnosine that I'm told earlier about the cross linking stuff. So L carnosine is one of its own. But this is a zinc, like you said, that in vitamin C, it's sometimes bound to some, like, minerals or something. This is L carnosine bound to zinc. So they make up one molecule. And this is about as close to magic I've seen a supplement get to. So when you combine L carnitine and zinc, they have this ability to find places that are damaged and Make a bond in that area and stay protecting that area. So if you. The scientific literature is very complex to look at how it actually works, but the simplified explanation is whenever there is a leakiness or some damage in the gut lining, the zinc carnosine will make a bond and stay on top of that area, basically forming a shield on the hurt area or the one that irritated area. And the zinc will go deep into the tissue. And from skin care we might know that sometimes you might need zinc cream or some zinc containing creams to, to fix something on skin. This is almost like a topical zinc, but with specific delivery to what exactly where it's needed. And it stays there for about six hours each time, protecting the area and stabilizing it. So if there is leakiness, if there is inflammation, if there's anything, it will protect the area and let it heal. So combining glutamine and sync carnosine is like the first line to do to basically everyone. That's what I would do.
- [45:01]
B
Would you say that for someone who is kind of undiagnosed, but they do have something that they even suspect that is either an autoimmune response or they have acne? You know, maybe someone listening there's their son have acne or daughter. Because I'm assuming less people in their teens are listening to this podcast, but. Or if you have adult acne, obviously.
- [45:22]
A
Yeah.
- [45:22]
B
Would you say that taking these two molecules would be able to kind of show you through improvement if you were correct in your assessment?
- [45:33]
A
Yeah, I, I know that many people get better and their skin condition, including acne, will get better just with. With L glutamine and zinc carnosine alone, because that takes care of the. Basically I would like to say that zinc carnosine is the fireman that puts out the fire and then L carnosine. Oh, I'm sorry. Zinc carnosine is the fireman. And L glutamine is the building block for new material. So if you keep using them for a couple months, it might be that you don't even need them anymore. So if they do their job and then you can do other healthy things. But many times actually with adult acne, we have seen that people might be struggling with low stomach acid levels. So for some reason they, they either they are on PPI medication or they are stressed or there's some other reason why they are not actually producing enough hydrochloric acid in their stomach. So there is impaired protein digestion and as a result there might be acne. So sometimes supplementing with betaine hydrochloride, which is basically a supplement form of hydrochloric acid. You increase your stomach acidity and lots of good things usually happen downstream so the food gets digested better and there's less bacteria getting into your, into your bowels and all that.
- [47:03]
B
And the choice to, and the choice to tie it with butane is just because this is a metabolite that exists anyway in the gut and, and it's a good carrier.
- [47:13]
A
You mean the betaine hydrochloric? Yeah, yeah, basically betaine hydrochloric. Well that's normally beta and hydrochlorote. You can find it in beets for example, the betaine. But it's just a way of. Because you, you. It would be a little bit difficult to ingest pure hydrochloric acid. Even a little bit dangerous maybe. So the betaine hydrochloride is just a supplemental form but it's, it's. Both of these are found in nature and actually both of them are beneficial so because in the stomach butane hydrochloride will break down to both hydrochloride and betaine. And betaine is also known as trimethyl glycine which is a metal donor which many people have might have a little impaired methylation. So yeah, actually like a double edged thing.
- [48:03]
B
I agree going back to the well here with NAD supplements normally I when I speak to people I'm telling them hey, look at the supplement you're taking. And if you're not, if it's not like a complex supplements like I don't know like qualia where it is boosting nad but it makes sure it provides the environment for any. For, for. For your body to kind of use it. You probably want to use beta and like you probably want to use. What you would find is TMG trimethylglycine because you are depleting it by providing more by by asking your body to process more NAD or.
- [48:41]
A
Sure, exactly. And many other things will deplete your methyl groups in your body anyway. Yeah so yeah but anyway that's one thing we've just noticed either either digestive enzymes or betaine hydrochloride. Sometimes people are seem to benefit more of digestive enzymes. A good quality enzyme like we have the optimized enzyme and or then it's about the H E L. So usually trying both maybe then finding out which one actually works for you. I would avoid product that has both enzymes and H E L in the same.
- [49:21]
B
Okay. Yeah so you answered my question really. If there, if there is a. Is there is there A reason not to take both.
- [49:28]
A
Yeah, there's basically a thing that if you don't need H E L, then it might give you problems because you already have good production of H E L, then it might be too strong for you. And another thing is that the H E L. Well, basically if you make a product that is both HCL and enzymes, it's not good in either, it's kind of in between. So. But if you take a good HCL as strong in that sense and enzymes are strong as a standalone product, so I think go either or.
- [49:59]
B
I understand. What about the, the prevailing opinion that. Let's talk about more like general wellness. Since you mentioned your enzymes, which I was, I think are fantastic. Is there a reason not to be taking enzymes in every meal? That's kind of like something you hear a lot, right. Like it's going to, it's going to make your body like, you know, less effective at producing its own enzymes and stuff like that. Is there, is there a, any truth to that?
- [50:32]
A
That's a good question actually, and intelligent question as well. I do hear it quite a bit. And the rationale goes that if you take enzymes, then your own pancreas, for example, which normally produces the enzymes, will cut back on its production and lose the capacity to produce enzymes which would then people think maybe a bit like in insulin or something.
- [50:58]
B
Yes.
- [50:58]
A
Or whatever hormones. Then if you take hormones like growth hormones or testosterone, anything, then your own production goes away. Yeah, there is, there's no human studies, but there are animal studies actually that when there are digestive enzymes put in the feed of, of mammals, their own enzyme production does go a little bit lower because body always optimizes. It never overspends the enzyme, it always optimizes. So if you are getting external enzymes, you do produce a little bit less yourself.
- [51:29]
B
Mm.
- [51:30]
A
But the moment the external supply is cut out, you will just bounce back to the level you need. Understood. And actually quite the opposite. Normally we find this in our customers that, who use enzymes first when they, they have the, for example, bloating or indigestion, acid reflux, all that, and they start with enzymes. And quite frankly for many people it's like overnight or even with the first meal, they're oh, this helps. This actually helps. Then they go on religiously taking the enzymes with every meal, but after a six months or something, or even a year, they forget. So they just realized that I don't need them anymore. And that's for us. Even though this is coming from a supplement manufacturer, that's a victory. Because I like people, actually, they got the initial help and their own system recovered and then they don't need the supplement anymore.
- [52:28]
B
Yeah, looking at the same enzyme, but looking at it from a different point of view. One of the talking points of this podcast or one of the things that we're looking at, obviously we're looking at longevity. We're looking at ways to maybe like, you know, stave off skin aging, but we are also looking at optimal way, optimal ways of recovery from injury. And the reason is, I think it's different than other podcasts. If you will talk about like, if you'd be talking with like an orthopedic surgeon, it would be slightly different here. Most of the time you chose to have the injury, whether it is something very minor like microneedling or maybe surgery, like facial plastic surgery or maybe, you know, a peel or a laser, whatever that is. There, there has been studies or maybe you could talk a little bit about taking a mega dose of enzymes and how it helps with recovery. Complete honesty. This is a bro science because this is something I've heard from a, actually from a, a supplement manufacturer or raw ingredient manufacturer, mind me, that said, hey, you know, there are studies that people took like 50 times or 30 times the, the, the recommended dose of enzymes and they recovered much quicker from, from insult from injury. What does the science tell us about that?
- [53:56]
A
Okay, well, yeah, I'm, I'm a big fan of enzymes. I've been like last 15 years. I just love enzymes and well, I've, I've read all the old books. When, when. Anyway, there is one brand event, this actually is scientific study on proteolytic enzymes that are also called systemic enzymes. So here's the thing for everyone who hasn't really heard about enzymes before, that enzymes can take two roles. They can, if you take them with meals, they will attack the food and help break down protein, fat, fiber, carbohydrates, everything. But if you take them without meals on empty stomach, they will not encounter food in your digestive system and they will get absorbed into your bloodstream. So they become systemic enzymes. So the same enzyme capsule can be either a digestive enzyme or a systemic enzyme based on when you take it. So now almost all of the science is made with a product called Wobenzium. So that dates back to like 1950. There was Max Wolf and Daniel Pennedet, who, and Wolf and Bennett has made it Wobenzene. So that's a systemic enzyme, enzyme formula that they have a lot of science behind it. Actually, it's staggering how much they have done and they have shown, for example, joint recovery and joint. Well, if there is a joint pains or any kind of injuries, that their recovery is faster. But the one thing to note here, that most of those enzymes are actually animal based enzymes. They are made from basically beef and pancreatic. Pancreatic enzymes. So from animals. So there is pancreas, trypsin, chymotrypsin, all kind of exotic sounding enzyme names. And then there is some bromelain from pineapple.
- [55:54]
B
Yeah.
- [55:54]
A
And some papaya. From papaya. So all of those, they, they have the ability of getting into your small intestine and here like an intelligent transport system kicks in. So your body is very selective what it takes. Because enzymes are big, big molecules, they normally would not get absorbed, they would just come out in the toilet. But enzymes are different things. Your body recognizes that. Okay. We actually want this because these are valuable. So they have this vesicle, like a bubble that they capture the enzyme and pull it through the membrane into the bloodstream.
- [56:30]
B
Wow.
- [56:31]
A
And once it's in the bloodstream, it gets basically scaffolded by a specific protein in the blood. So. Because otherwise if it was just a free protein digesting enzyme in your blood, it could do damage.
- [56:43]
B
Yeah.
- [56:44]
A
As your body takes it in and scaffolds it with a protein that then your body decides where it's going to be used. And there's a thing with enzymes that they only can digest dead material or material that doesn't belong in your body. So enzymes cannot harm you, basically. So but what your body does with the enzyme that they will, it will take it, take the enzyme to places where it's needed. For example, scar tissue or if there are like circulating immune complexes in your blood that are generating like false alarm, it can digest those. Basically it will eat debris from your bloodstream and your tissues.
- [57:25]
B
Yeah.
- [57:26]
A
So. And if we are looking at injury, there's a lot of stuff that your body wants to remove from there. So it helps to either way basically clean the site of damage.
- [57:40]
B
Yeah. It reminds me actually when I try to explain autophagy and the role of spermidine, it's like it's not, it's, it's. It, it is like a, like a fire where, where you burn off material that is not needed, but it's more like a chimney. The fact that we burn off things actually stokes the flames of repair. If you would. Because then your body can engage in repair in a much better way.
- [58:07]
A
Yeah.
- [58:08]
B
So I, Yeah, it's very interesting.
- [58:10]
A
Basically enzymatic Therapy. That's what it's called. And, and, and also one enzyme that I didn't mention is called serrapeptase. That's actually, there's studies on serrapeptase that if there is inflammation and swelling of, of a joint, for example, one thing that happens easily in the swollen area, that the exchange of fluids is impaired, there's basically a lymph not moving there. What serrapeptase is shown to do is to facilitate the movement of fluids in the inflamed area. So, and that's just one. So, yeah, I do believe that enzymes can help with acute injury.
- [58:50]
B
Very cool. Yeah, very cool. It's very interesting. And, and, and we're trying to keep the, the podcast under an hour, which I failed miserably now. But I do have a few more questions because it's, I think it's a very interesting discussion. You mentioned food. So if we could just like, almost like, like a protocol type. What are, what specific foods are, you know, positive as a rule. And what are negative?
- [59:16]
A
Okay. Negative ones are especially simple sugars. So you could basically. How do you recognize a simple sugar? It's tastes sweet because then complex sugars don't. I would say fruit is fine, but as a fruit, like the whole thing, not fruit juice. So I would say don't drink your calories. That's. That's usually not a good idea. So fruit juice, never. And even vegetable juice, I would still say eat the vegetables because then you get the fiber as well. So that's a one big thing then it depends on what kind of diet you are. If somebody is on a ketogenic diet, then you use more fats. But what the science part actually is quite clear on this, that a lot of saturated fat will make your gut more permeable. Yeah.
- [60:10]
B
Okay.
- [60:11]
A
So I'm not really sure whether a really good quality butter, for example, would do that or is it only like bad saturated fats? Kind of. Yeah. But, but overall, if you look at the leadership, just to be sure, have more of the fats from like olive oil and maybe if you need use saturated fats than the coconut oil and that sort of stuff.
- [60:34]
B
Got it.
- [60:34]
A
More. More like the ones that stay liquid in the room temperature. So maybe cutting back on excess saturated fat and the sweet stuff, that's basically something to avoid. And then what to add is everything that has a sour or strong taste, like some berries or vegetables that might not be so palatable first. But if you acquire a taste for like, you start to like sour taste, like sauerkraut for example.
- [61:05]
B
Yeah.
- [61:06]
A
Or fermented foods. Anyway, if, if that's a new thing, you might not like them first, but if you just keep going like a little fork now and like every day, you might actually start liking them. And they are one of the best, best things you can do to give your gut the good bacteria and also the prebiotic fibers in the same go.
- [61:26]
B
Yes, I, I couldn't agree more. To me, I go through periods where I will have fermented foods and that is the ultimate, ultimate feeling I can, I can feel when my, when my gut bacteria communicates to my brain that they like it. At the beginning it's a little bit, it's, it's a little bit of a challenge to, to get through, you know, a couple tablespoons, but within like a week, two weeks, you know, the first bite gets me a little bit excited. I know it sounds stupid, but it's true. Like, yeah, it tastes amazing, you know.
- [62:02]
A
Yeah, it does. And I think that's also one thing. Once you, there's like, and first there's no association. Like your body doesn't know this is healthy, but once you start, you just start doing it and then after the week or two you actually get this feedback loop. Oh, this is the thing we want.
- [62:21]
B
Yeah.
- [62:22]
A
And then it's easier to eat as well.
- [62:25]
B
Look, the other thing, I don't know to explain that the other thing that does that is hummus. I don't know why or what, but hummus definitely does that. And hummus as a rule, a good hummus, not one that you buy from a supermarket, like one that, you know, you get to some 90 year old, 90 year old person that makes it in some, you know, in their, the back of their house, you know, something like that. That's the best ones. The more you eat it over time, the more you can eat, which is pretty interesting.
- [62:53]
A
Yeah. Basically, could I, I mean, I'm thinking like just a few actionable things I could.
- [62:58]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [63:00]
A
Points like what to do, how to start, how to usually start with almost any gut health issue is basically it is the L glutamine zincarnosine combo for the, well we have the product for that, the flagship one, that rescue, which is the main product. But to start with that, just, just heal the gut lining.
- [63:19]
B
Yeah.
- [63:20]
A
And then test the enzymes and betaine hydrochloride if you have any indigestion and see if you need enzymes or if you need beta and hydrochloride. You might not need either one, but it's good to test yeah. And consider a good prebiotic fiber. I mean you can just buy any. It can be psyllium, Oregon B. Chia seeds. Or it can be some more advanced. Where we have one advanced one. But. But consider adding a prebiotic fiber which has a lot of soluble fiber in it.
- [63:50]
B
Yeah.
- [63:51]
A
And then in the, the last thing. Well, the, the long afterwards is try to eat as many vegetables and fruits and mushrooms and nuts and seeds. And I give a number here. There is, there is scientific evidence that. And this might sound a lot, but if you try to aim for 30 different plant food in a week, so 3, 0. It sounds a lot, but it's basically four foods in a day that are different. So it takes a little bit of thinking around. But you can you basically. If you think how many plant sources there are. There are so many.
- [64:27]
B
Yeah.
- [64:27]
A
And it's been shown that with that much different plant foods, you get the most diverse gut microbiome, which will just make you healthy.
- [64:38]
B
Isn't it isn't the statistic that a, that a paleolithic man had around 36 man, woman, person had 36 different plants on a regular basis. And the average western world person has like four.
- [64:55]
A
Yeah. Above. Like I think it was even more than 36. It was.
- [64:58]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [64:59]
A
But yeah, we have so little fiber sources. And the point here is that certain bacteria like one fiber and the others like this fiber and the third one like that fiber, so the variety is the key.
- [65:10]
B
So cooked or not, doesn't matter.
- [65:13]
A
Maybe. But if your stomach is acting up and it's bloating and it's sensitive, I would say cook everything.
- [65:20]
B
Okay. Okay. So one thing about you guys's fiber as far as like good, good ways to consume it, it does thicken, shakes a little bit.
- [65:31]
A
I noticed our fiber.
- [65:34]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [65:34]
A
It's basically, well, not much because it's, it's. We've hydrolyzed it. It's so it's a form of soluble fiber that doesn't form a gel. So a little bit it might thicken, but not too much. So I would say just put it in water or a smoothie or whatever. That's the best way because it has a little bit of fruity taste to it. So maybe not in a coffee.
- [65:57]
B
Yeah. Okay. Apropos coffee. So I do have a lightning round to end this podcast. Just, you know, fast, fast paced, one gut friendly food. You swear by chia seeds? Chia seeds. Cool. Worst skin advice you've ever heard.
- [66:15]
A
Oh, I don't even know. I mean, I think maybe I had that Nivea, like horrible. Like some jelly things once given to me. And maybe that's the worst one.
- [66:27]
B
Okay, awesome. Your desert island supplement.
- [66:32]
A
Desert island supplement. I think maybe it would be a vitamin B complex.
- [66:37]
B
Okay. And coffee gut. Hero or villain?
- [66:43]
A
God Hero.
- [66:44]
B
Okay, good. At least I'm doing something right. Listen, that. Yoni, this has been very, very, very cool. Yeah, let's. We'll have to do a part two. Yeah, I do wanna. Let's think on our feet here. One thing we don't do well in this podcast, granted, because we don't, you know, we. We publicly don't get any commission. We don't care about that. We're. We're a brand. Right. It's not like that's what we live off of. But we don't allow people to, you know, they hear something and they didn't get any. Any offer, anything. So let's think on our feet. I'm sure in the back end we can, we can fix it. Do we want to give any kind of code like Young Goose or something like that? And, and yeah, I think we, we have a.
- [67:37]
A
The code. I mean, it's just a simple yg.
- [67:41]
B
Oh, cool, cool.
- [67:42]
A
YG percent off. Oh, cool.
- [67:45]
B
Yeah. That shows you how much I am unaware of what happens in the background. So YG20. It's going to be in the show notes as well.
- [67:53]
A
Yeah.
- [67:54]
B
It was a pleasure, Yoni and I enjoyed it too. I hope to see you in person soon.
- [68:00]
A
Yeah, me too.
- [68:01]
B
All right, thank you very much. Thank you, everyone. Bye Bye.