← Biohacking Beauty: The Anti-Aging Skincare Podcast
Biohacking Beauty: The Anti-Aging Skincare Podcast
Nerida Joy: The Small Skincare Habits That Will Transform Your Skin
00:53:58
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- [00:00]
Amitai Eshel
Foreign welcome back to Biohacking Beauty. My name is Amitai Eshel and I'm here to bring you the latest in innovative skincare strategies to keep your skin looking and feeling youthful. Whether you're new to skincare or a seasoned enthusiast, our mission is to season simplify the science of skin aging so you can get the most out of your skincare journey. Today we have a very special guest. Joining us is Nerida Joy. She's a true pioneer in the beauty industry. A globally renowned celebrity facialist with over 40 years of experience. Known for her holistic approach to skin health, Nerida combines detail deep expertise with a focus on gentle, non invasive methods that work. Her philosophy is all about understanding each individual's unique skin needs. Moving away from a one size fits all solution to build truly personalized skincare routines. In this episode, she'll share her wealth of knowledge on tailoring skincare to fit your your specific needs. Her go to strategies for radiant skin and why the environment, lifestyle and even stress play key roles in our skin's health. So if you're ready to learn how to elevate your skincare game with proven accessible techniques, stay tuned. And a quick reminder that this podcast is brought to you by Young Goose Skill Skincare, where we are committed to blending biohacking and skincare science to help you look and feel your best at any age. Now let's dive in. Great. Okay, Nerida, welcome to the Biohacking Beauty podcast.
- [02:02]
Nerida Joy
I am so excited to be here. Thank you so much.
- [02:05]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah, so as I told you, kind of off air, even though we are a skincare company, even though this is called Biohacking Beauty often, more often than not, we don't really have a skin care expert here. We bring experts from other fields and related to the skin. But I'm very excited having someone on that is, you know, is, is true to the name of the podcast, is a, is a legit skin expert. So maybe we can start. Thank you. Maybe we can start with understanding where you come from. How, how does one become a go to skin expert in skincare for celebrities, for people who are, you know, who their job is to look good.
- [02:46]
Nerida Joy
Well, gosh, I graduated Beauty School in 1978, which is 46 years ago. I originally from Sydney, Australia. I did not, I didn't, you know, come to America to be a celebrity esthetician. I came here about 33 years ago because I, you know, just with a business colleague that I was with, I came to America and I just thought, you know what, I can Do a lot in this country. And so I'd had a couple of businesses back in Sydney, so I moved over here. And I think to answer your question, how do you become, become somebody that people look up to and request is that you just have to really just do your work. You know, obviously this is something that I love. It's been my life and, and it's just every day getting up and just being the best I can every day and studying things that modalities and studying our skin in a way that made sense to me. I think that what happens a lot of the time when you come out of beauty school is that you're taught so many different things in beauty school and yet very little about understanding skin and understanding what you're looking at.
- [04:01]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [04:01]
Nerida Joy
So I feel a lot of people, you know, they go quickly to modalities, machines because they don't know what else to do and it's almost an escape go for them. So I think that it's really important to, to understand what it is you're looking at because then you have the know how and the smarts to be able to say, well, you know what, I'm going to get the skin healthy first and then I can use these modalities to just enhance the skin that I'm already, you know, that I got better in the, in first place. So I think, I think it's important to, you know, follow your passion to do things that make sense to you. Don't try and do everything. And I think that's sort of, you know, when I came here, I knew that massaging the skin was really important that, you know, just in what the, the effects that you can get from that beautiful work with massage. So I feel that that was, has always been a strong presence for me. It's just sort of really understanding the importance of massage, the importance of the lymphatic system, you know, within that and just, you know, really highlighting just, just what pretty skin is, having a healthy skin barrier. And I think that, you know, when you understand what you're doing, you know, it's not hard to build a good clientele, especially if you keep the focus in mind that you, you're there to help people's skin be better. So even a good skin, you can make it better. And I think that that's it. I think people get too caught up in everything else that's going on around them without sort of really looking at their client and saying, okay, you know, what are we dealing with? What skin type do you have? What are all the subconditions and what can we do here to make your skin and great. So, you know, I. I think that that's the focus, and it's remained to be my focus, just, you know.
- [05:56]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [05:56]
Nerida Joy
Moving forward.
- [05:58]
Amitai Eshel
It's interesting you mentioned lymphatic, and this is something that we do, you know, touch on quite often, because I feel like it's getting a resurgence now. But for the longest time, that was not part of the discussion around skin health. Not lymphatic and not blood flow, where like the two things that I think since maybe because the discussion is led by marketing dollars and, you know, skincare companies trying to explain that their, you know, favorite new molecule is the end all be all, a lot of times we don't realize it's significantly more than that and that you have entire bodily systems that are designed to support the skin and you need to support those systems.
- [06:42]
Nerida Joy
Yes, that's right. So important. Yeah, absolutely.
- [06:46]
Amitai Eshel
Although I do feel that it is getting a resurgence now with anything from, you know, gua sha skin taping, skin, you know, you know, lymph, buccal massages, just in general, you know, facial massages. I feel like it is getting back to the. To the forefront of skin health. Do you feel it as well?
- [07:06]
Nerida Joy
Yeah, I think. I think there's, you know, massage is just, I guess when you've done it for as long as I have and you've had body massages as regularly as I do, which is twice a week, I'm really consistent with that. I understand the importance of, you know, movement as medicine. I think the more that people fill their face with Botox and they create that stillness within a muscle, then, you know, there's no movement. And if you understand that our body is mostly 70% water, while every stream is moving, it stays clean. But when, you know, water stuck in a dam and it just is rancid and gets dirty, then that's really our body. So, you know, the movement of just the swinging, the arms, the massaging just to help, you know, help stimulate movement. Because our lymphatic system really is like our garbage disposal. You know, we. We need to be massaging in everything, whether it's your cleansing, your serums, your treatment creams. So in my treatment room, I do. I'm. I'm all about my hands, you know, and. And really, you know, I change skin that way, too. So I. I think that it's definitely getting back to massage. I know that massage is a lot of different massages because people have a lot more stress. You Know, they have a lot more anxiety now. I mean, these are words that are thrown around. Everybody's talking about gut health and the microbiome. And I know from somebody that's worked with skin for 46 years, the importance of acne and gut health. You know, I'm always taking people off certain foods, especially when it's food related. Acne. And you know, there's candida and keratosis, pilaris. I mean, you've got all of these skin issues that have a big influence. Rosacea, another one. So much inflammation in the body. And I think that, you know, gut health is just such a huge part. You know, young people have issues with their gut now. And you know, it's, it's a, it's a big discussion, gut health and the microbiome and just, you know, what is it we need to do to keep it healthy? Because our skin is obviously just a reflection of what's going on on the inside. So that's really important.
- [09:19]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah, I agree. I wonder, has your approach shifted over the years? Have you, you know, same.
- [09:28]
Nerida Joy
Yeah, yeah, no, it's definitely shifted. But again, it's, it's, you know, I'm fortunate enough to, to have studied a lot out of beauty school. I studied kinesiology, iridology, reiki, I did bush essences and nutrition. So I studied for a long time after beauty school. And then when I came out, I tried a lot of different things because I thought everybody's different. It's great to have all these tools to be able to pull from as we need them when we're working on an individual. Yeah, but I will, I mean, how has it shifted? It shifted more about the way I massage.
- [10:04]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [10:05]
Nerida Joy
You know, it's not that I'm bringing in. In fact, you know, I've had, I've owned salons since I was 19 years old. And if you look in my treatment room, you'll see that I don't have any big devices. It's really about understanding what you're looking at when you're looking through Maggie Lamb, you know, understanding about one's wife in, you know, basically their, their lifestyle, their, their foods. Just what is it on their skin that is their concerned concerning areas, you know. So I'm one who believes very much in face mapping and being able to look at somebody's face and go, aha. Dark circles and wrinkles around the eyes. Well, let's go to the stomach, you know, because that shows your allergies, it shows your intolerance is strong foods. It shows areas that are weakened, that we can stimulate and make it better. And then you're not going to have the dark circles and the puffiness and the wrinkles the same. So, you know, I'm big on education. It's something that I travel around the country doing. I was just in Miami a little over a week ago. I was, you know, I tour with my Understanding Skin tour. And the focus is it is a lot about gut health and it's a lot about, you know, the inflammation because it's just. There's just so much of it that interferes with our skin. And so the way, you know, what I. What I find myself doing more is I'm massaging the skin more, but I'm learning different ways to work on massaging the skin. Because when you have somebody that has so much heat that's coming out from the inside and you feel it on the face as soon as you touch them. So automatically my heated blanket goes off on my bed. There's going to be no steam. There's going to be no, you know, infrared lights. It's going to not be any of this. And now what do we need to do to cool and calm the skin? So it's the way that I massage is different, you know, and so I'm looking at the face as, you know, just really in detail about pinpointing the areas of concern on my particular client. But. And just being able to really work with that in sections that I just find it fascinating. I mean, I find it fascinating that you can really do extraordinary things with skincare products. You just can. And it only happens when you understand skin. You can't just. You've got to understand what you're looking at. You really do. And I think a lot of people think that they don't understand what a good skin is, you know, so I've been in. I've sat in classes with doctors where they own their own skincare line, and they're talking to us and they're sunburned, peeling. And I'm like, wow, here you are talking about skin and how great it is to have good skin, but you're burnt and you're peeling. So clearly you weren't protective of the UVA and B right when you were out. And that's unfortunate because I think how can you talk about skin when you've really got to walk? You talk. Yeah, so. So for me, I, you know, I don't. I'm very. I'm tough in my industry. You know, I'm tough. I'm tough about people that claim to be experts and professional, that they really need to walk their talk. Yeah, I think it's, I think, you know, a lot of people, they just don't, they think if, if they don't have pimples, I think their skin is good. But there's, there's so much that you can, you can take even a good skin and just make it so much better. And I think I want people to understand, you know, how to do that.
- [13:48]
Amitai Eshel
First of all, you know, it's a principle that I think is applied to every avenue in life. I think it's a principle that applies to leadership. Right. Like, at the end of the day, you are a leader. You are, you know, you're a service provider, but really you lead people to better skin. And a lot of it is inspiration, and a lot of it is having them want to do what is needed to be done. In other words, you know, in the words of General Manchester or McMaster or whoever, you know, and if you are not walking the talk, it's very difficult to be a leader or a good leader.
- [14:23]
Nerida Joy
Yes.
- [14:23]
Amitai Eshel
It's almost impossible because you're working against yourself. I agree. So, and you said another thing that is beautiful, that you just love it. And I think it's so much easier to be an expert in something when you love it, you know, when you're really genuinely interested in it.
- [14:39]
Nerida Joy
Absolutely.
- [14:41]
Amitai Eshel
I wonder if, because again, you have 46 years of experience, you love what you're doing, you're interested in what you're doing. Are there, though, ways that you can relay to people who are listening, ways for them to assess their skin from, lack of a better word, skin types and unique needs? Can they do some of it at home or they have to meet a profession?
- [15:05]
Nerida Joy
Yeah, I, I, I think that there's some things that are very important, some basics. Like, I'm looking at you here and I can see, like, you have really healthy, pretty skin. And it's not often you see people that have pretty skin. Right. I mean, it's, you know, as I said, they may not have pimples, but, but to have dewiness and to have, you know, a good constitution. Because I always say, like, our skin is like a house. It's a structure. You have to have a strong base, strong walls and a strong roof. And I think that that is something that you have to keep in mind about, you know, just, just levels and what molecules we need to get to these levels. So if somebody, a consumer, your audience, you know, what are some ways I would say that there's basics and that is if you are an oily skin skin, you've got blackheads everywhere, including inside your ear. A dry skin is not no blackheads at all. Okay. And then you've got the in between the combination oily and the combination dry. Now I personally am a combination dry. That means I have blackheads around my nose and on my chin. I don't have them on my forehead. But the most common skin types are the combination skin types. They're the most common. And I think that, you know, if you recognize that you have blackheads and where you have blackheads, which is either going to be your T zone or around, you know, down, just down around your mouth and your nose. If you have blackheads on the sides of your face, but you don't really have them in other areas, then you're probably not cleaning your skin. Well, yeah, and I, and I think that, you know, it's important to understand what skin type you have. Number one. Number two, look at yourself in the mirror and, and you know, do you have these fine little premature lines? They're not really wrinkles because we've only got three kinds of wrinkles. You've got the, you know, your, your premature, which is one that we can fix as an esthetician or you know, if you're using good products on your skin, you can fix those little premature lines. Then you've got expression lines that happen around our nasal labian, on our forehead, our leavens, between our brows. Expression lines are hard because that is the Botox that will paralyze those muscles if you're choosing to go that route. And then you've got the wrinkles that happen as a result of collagen elastin as we age. So I think it's important to look in the mirror. Do you have dark circles? Look at all the other things. What is your pore size like? Do you have a lot of blackheads? Do you have pigmentation melasma, the blotchy brown, you know, do you have rosacea? Do you have ruddiness and visible capillaries? I think it's important to know your skin type and then look at what your sub conditions are. Now it's those subconditions that we can change.
- [17:54]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [17:54]
Nerida Joy
And I think that once you look at yourself in the mirror and you go, you know what? My skin looks flat, it doesn't look dull, it doesn't look dewy and pretty. Then, then very often the skin, you know, the skin needs hydration. And whether it be just topical or internal, I think there's a big plus in drinking a lot of water. When people drink water, if they're not adding to their water, sometimes they're just drinking a lot of it and they're just peeing it straight out. So you've got to add to your water sometimes, you know, electrolytes, maybe you're adding a little bit of cranberry juice, you want it to stick. And you can tell if the skin is dehydrated because it just doesn't have that bounce back. It's just not pretty. So I think hydration is really important on an internal level as well. And then topically, one of the biggest issues that I see is that most people have surface dryness. It doesn't matter whether you're an oily skin, a combination or a dry skin. Most people have surface dryness. And what that means is that it's confusing for them, especially in oily skin, because they say, well, Nerida, one day my skin's really oily and another day it's dry. And they've got the moisturizers for the oily skin and then they've got them for the dry skin. And you know, I think that a lot of people wonder why they have big pores and they wonder why they have all these bumps and congestion. But if you, if you have dryness on top of an oily skin, oil has got to be able to get out, you know, and a lot of people use foaming cleansers and they use things that are just too drying and stripping. And if you dry and strip your skin, you're compromising your barrier and then everything is crazy. You cannot, you cannot possibly win. It doesn't matter. The thousand dollar moisturizer, whatever facial you do, whatever peel you do, it's not going to make a difference.
- [19:48]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [19:48]
Nerida Joy
So you've got to keep your skin healthy. And sometimes people just think more is better and it's not. You have to be consistent. You need to have a cleanser that isn't stripping your skin and making it feel tight and squeaky clean. You need to protect your skin from the environment, you know, whether it be the sun, the cool winter months, the wind. People are too afraid to put stuff on their skin because they think it's going to clog their pores. But it doesn't work like that. You've just got to, you've got to be consistent with your regimen. And you need a regimen, a home care regimen that works for you and your skin skin type. And it doesn't mean 10 products it could be three or four.
- [20:28]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [20:29]
Nerida Joy
But your cleansing is really important and I'm going to say it's 50% of your regimen. You've got to get that slate right in the beginning. Then everything else is a beautiful thing.
- [20:39]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah. You know, I have a few questions about that. First of all, I agree with everything that you said since you live in la and again, you see people who are kind of, you know, in the circles that they need to be active, they need to be around, they need to show their face, they need to be out of the house. Do you see the impact of pollution as well? Or do you see more. The impact of, you know, more natural stressors, like you said, you know, rain and. Sorry, wind and uv. But do you see people who, you say, you know what, you just live too close to a highway or something like that?
- [21:15]
Nerida Joy
I'm going to say that regardless of where you live, you know, New York or you live right next to a train station or an airport, you can still protect your skin and keep it clean.
- [21:27]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [21:28]
Nerida Joy
But when you live in an environment where it's, you know, maybe it's extremities where you're, you're closer to the equator, like in Australia, where I'm from, we have the worst skin cancer in the world in Queensland. The sun is about 7% hotter there than it is anywhere else. And we also have an ozone layer that's very diluted because, you know, the French were doing all this nuclear testing in the Pacific Ocean many years ago, and it's, it's left a hole in our zone. And now what we have is we have shuttles going up into space, into our stratosphere with the black carbon that is being expelled from these shuttles. Now, there was only like 130 of them that went up last year, but, but now the more shuttles that are going up into space and there's going to be tons more, it is destroying our atmosphere, which means, again, there's going to be more skin cancer and more cataract surgery needed. What you have to know is that the environment, you know, whether it be, I mean, the sun is extreme in how it damages the skin, and it's not about getting burnt necessarily as much as it is the hidden one that you don't see. It's the uva, you know, that really destroys our collagen and elastin fibers and, and it makes the skin really loose.
- [22:48]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [22:48]
Nerida Joy
So I think that the pollution is not as bad as our environment, to answer your question, because you can protect. And as long as you're cleaning your skin. Well, and protecting your skin, even wearing makeup and sunblock is a protection.
- [23:02]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah, for sure.
- [23:03]
Nerida Joy
You know, and so I don't feel the pollution to be as bad. I think as long as you're internally eating healthy foods and getting nutrition from that, I think that's really important. I think, you know, we are a reflection of what we put into our body. Our skin is. And I think, you know, if you are a big drinker, it's going to show on your skin. If you're a big smoker, it's going to show. If you're a, you know, crazy McDonald's eater, it's going to show in more ways than one, you know, So I think definitely nutrition, you can see it on the skin. I know through Covid some of my celebrity clients that were not working, you know, they were in cooking more and having wine with their meals, and I could really see it in their skin, the alcohol, because it dehydrates the skin. You know, it's wonderful. You know, it's everything in moderation, of course, what's important. But, you know, but there are things that really do affect the skin and an alcohol kind of sucks the life out of a little bit, you know. So I'm going to say that, you know, just what we put into our body, the environment and how we protect our skin is crucial.
- [24:15]
Amitai Eshel
Yes, I agree. And actually I'm going to mention something that I know is a dear subject of yours, which is flavonoids. And something interesting about flavonoids, whether, you know, around the issue of aging from UVA or from pollution, is that they tie into our natural defense mechanisms against the environment. Really, really cool. A lot of the times we think, rightfully so, that sunblock is extremely important and should be applied whenever you are going to meet the elements, which is true. But sunblock is not a natural mechanism to us. We do have some natural mechanisms we can enforce certainly from the inside. But I think I love. You're kind of a like of a spokesperson to. To flavonoids. And this actually ties really nicely into it. Obviously they do more, but that's why, you know, we use and love them and they, they also work there. Actually, there is a couple of Australian studies showing that adding flavonoids to sunblock can actually even double its effect.
- [25:20]
Nerida Joy
Oh, wow.
- [25:21]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah. So. So something very cool there that I. That I've heard you speak about before.
- [25:26]
Nerida Joy
No, I, I'm, I'm a huge fan on flavonoids. In fact, I, I'm I talk about it so much, I even having had people kind of making videos mocking me, you know, sort of talking about the flavonoids, and it makes me laugh and I'm. I'm happy that, you know, it's something that. The reason why flavonoids is so important to me now in my business is because most people have some sort of sensitivity.
- [25:50]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [25:50]
Nerida Joy
You know, there's more, there's more PCOS out there, there's more inflammation, so that, that means there's more rosacea, there's more sensitivities and, and also from people because they're just doing more with their skin. They're peeling that deeper, they're lasering, they're doing all of these extra things. And what flavonoids do that is so wonderful is that they really support the skin. They, they nurture it in a way that is just spectacular, really. And it helps with healing. You know, someone who's got a past, acne scars, it supports blood vessel walls, little capillaries, and it's. I'm just a huge fan of flavonoids.
- [26:31]
Amitai Eshel
Absolutely.
- [26:32]
Nerida Joy
I use it all the time. I mean, all the time. Yeah.
- [26:35]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah. Nice. Nice. Very nice. We actually use our favorite flavonoid. We actually use a few, but one of our favorite flavonoid is Resveratrol. First of all, we come from the longevity field, so it obviously connects to that. But resveratrol is definitely one of our favorites and it does kind of fill in exactly those categories that you spoke about. So, you know, at least we're doing something right. Hey there.
- [27:05]
C
This is Amitai, co founder and CEO of Young Goose and host of the Biohacking Beauty podcast. I wanted to take a brief moment to share something really special about with you, our dedicated listeners At Young Goose. We've always been about more than just skincare. We are about cellular care. We believe in not just addressing the signs, but truly diving into the very source of skin aging. The reality is, as time goes on, our skin undergoes damage and this damage accumulates gradually, leading to those signs of aging we all see and know very well. But what if we could hit the rewind button? What if we could delve deep in, not into the layers of the skin, but into the life sustaining mechanisms of our skin cells? That's exactly what we're doing at Young Oops. We're pioneering a renaissance in skincare by employing principles from regenerative medicine by rejuvenating and restoring the skin cellular functions, our products aim to rewind time. Gifting your Skin a youthful, vibrant glow. And for our biohacking beauty listeners, we have a special treat. Head over to Yongoos.com right now and use the code PODCAST10 to get 10% off your first purchase. Discover the magic of truly transformative skincare. And hey, because we value our returning customers just as much, use podcast five on your subsequent purchases to get 5% off. And the best part, that this discount can be combined with subscriptions and our already discounted systems. So why wait? Dive deep into the realm of regenerative skincare with Yungoos and let your skin. Thank you, Reg. Remember, it's not just skin care, it's cellular care. And now back to our conversation.
- [29:14]
Amitai Eshel
I do have a question around. You know, you did mention the fact that you don't use machines. And I, you know, I'm, first of all, I'm intrigued around, you know, what you call a machine, especially because it's so different even from state to state, what estheticians can even, can even, you know, even use.
- [29:33]
Nerida Joy
Yeah.
- [29:34]
Amitai Eshel
But also because I have been, I've been gotten into some hot water speaking against machines like radio frequency and high frequency ultrasound. So I'm wondering, when you say machines, what exactly do you mean?
- [29:49]
Nerida Joy
Okay, well, I, there's a couple of things. So number one, first to say that I've worked with facial plastic surgeons that have used very serious machines with heat.
- [29:59]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [30:00]
Nerida Joy
And it melts fat and it's dingling and they've stopped using it. So I've seen the extremes of it. Okay, number one. Number two, you know, again, I'm not against all machines. And coming from Australia, I was able to have a lot of machines back there in the day when I was there because, you know, we were allowed to use machines that I could not use here in California as an esthetician. But the thing that I, I will tell you is that I think I, you know, I just sort of think that really you have to get back to real basics and understand what's going on with skin. Because my question with anybody that's going to use a machine is I'm going to say to you, why, why are you going to use that machine? And you better have a really good answer. And I can tell you, you better have the skin really healthy. I mean, you, you, otherwise there is most of the time I'm going to go, can't do that. And you see, the problem is, is that it's not that I'm necessarily against all machines because I understand if you have pitting and scarring, you need to do different things. But the very first thing you have to do is you've got to get the skin healthy.
- [31:08]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [31:09]
Nerida Joy
Once you get the skin now you can do the peels.
- [31:12]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah. But now you card because it wasn't healthy to begin with. So you're probably getting a person in a state in the state that got them there.
- [31:21]
Nerida Joy
That's right. That's exactly right. And the same with so many people have melasma. Once you've upset that tyrosinase cycle within a melanocyte, good luck because you're going to be dealing with that for the rest of your life. So I think what's really important is a lot of people, they do strong machines to try and get rid of it, but it actually makes it worse and makes it forever more. Not just worse in the moment, but forevermore. So I'm very big on thinking about skin long term and a lot of people aren't. And you know what, it's really upsetting to me. And that's why I started my YouTube channel seven years ago because I was so upset initially the doctors were handing out pills, antibiotics to everybody that when I would have clients come in that have been on antibiotics for six or seven years consistently.
- [32:16]
Amitai Eshel
Wow.
- [32:17]
Nerida Joy
But, but the worst of it is they still have acne, you see. And to me it's just like, oh my gosh, you've done all of this stuff to the gut. So the point is that I have a big voice for this and I'm not afraid to speak about it because you know what, I've been doing this a long time and I've seen so much. I just want to help people. But, but using a machine, it's like I'm going to say why, why are you going to do that? Have you, number one, talk to them about skin care and their home care regimen. Number two, have you talked to them about their, their, you know, what they're eating and what they're doing and how are they protecting their skin? I mean, you have to be able to answer a web, a big, a lot of questions before you can tell me there's a reason you need to be doing this machine. And I think people are lazy. They don't want to put time into doing extractions. They just don't. It hurts your fingers and it's a lot of work to be thorough, to be good at what you do. It takes a lot of work. And I always say to be a five star esthetician, it's a package. And the one thing you have to be is you've got to be thorough and you've got to know what you're talking about. You've got to study your craft. And people that do machines, number one, they, they don't understand really skin, first of all. And second of all, they didn't even know their, why they're using it. You know what I'm saying? And it's a, it's a huge problem for me. I have a major issue with this.
- [33:45]
Amitai Eshel
I think, you know, it goes back to my first point that I told you to me, probably. And of course it's a, it's a gross exaggeration, generalization, but it's people who don't love it enough.
- [33:57]
Nerida Joy
Yes.
- [33:57]
Amitai Eshel
You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it, it all comes from your fascination and love to what you're doing. If you don't, then you're looking for shortcuts, cuts, which, by the way, you, again, you don't even know what you're trying to shortcut.
- [34:09]
Nerida Joy
Yes, yes, exactly.
- [34:11]
Amitai Eshel
You've worked with plastic surgeons. We speak with them, obviously. We have over 250 clients who are plastic surgeons here in America. And one of my favorite subjects is asking them, when you open up the skin, what are the evidence for overuse or by the way, just use, but overuse of, you know, microneedling, radio frequency, radio frequency, high frequency ultrasound, These, these devices that claim to stimulate collagen, but what they really are doing is that they're indiscriminately heating up the tissue, you know, damaging blood vessels, damaging, you know, many, many different levels of, of, of skin, fat, et cetera, sometimes muscle. So I wondered if you as a, as a professional can feel. Feel it. You can touch the skin without opening it and say it's like in the Iliad where the giant smells that humans were there. Can you smell someone was there before you with a machine?
- [35:12]
Nerida Joy
I absolutely can. And what I feel, to answer your question, is I feel the weakness in the structure.
- [35:20]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [35:21]
Nerida Joy
And, and sometimes I feel, you know, where the skin is uneven because when you start melting fat, it's just, it makes, you know, again, it's one of those things. It's like. But you're going to need this later in life.
- [35:33]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [35:33]
Nerida Joy
Why are you doing this right now? So, you know, it really is devastating to me. And fortunately, working with a facial plastic, you know, many years ago, and seeing and knowing something, you know, he had a. The Marge machine.
- [35:49]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [35:49]
Nerida Joy
That he totally got rid of because he said narrator. Is causing dimpling in the skin and I think that I admire people that, that say, you know what, this is wrong. I don't care that I paid, you know, over 100,000 for this machine. It's going in the back and we're not using this anymore.
- [36:07]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [36:08]
Nerida Joy
Again, I just, it blows my mind, the lack of understanding of skin. Skin.
- [36:13]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [36:13]
Nerida Joy
You know, people are not thinking long term and there are a lot of people out there now doing all of these, you know, using all of these machines, these aggressive machines that are creating heat in the lower layers of the skin, melting fat, damaging capillaries and, you know, it's just, I just, I'm, I'm scared for these people for 20 years time. Yeah, I really am. Because it's like a lot of people talking about scary skin. They're not my age, I'm in my 60s. They're not my age. To even know what it's like when you get to your 50s and your 60s.
- [36:47]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [36:48]
Nerida Joy
Because our skin gets thinner. You know, I keep saying, why, why are you thinning back the skin? You can lift and tap all you like. You could have a facelift or two or three if you want, but you can't make your skin thicker. So stop thinning back your skin. So, you know, all of these devices, when you start messing with the fat, I mean, that just absolutely is. I just want to cry because I know what's going to happen in their future. And by the way, good luck at trying to get fat injections back in and getting it even.
- [37:22]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [37:22]
Nerida Joy
If you go to a facial plastic surgeon to have fat injections, you know what they're going to say? Don't massage your skin because it's going to get rid of the fat. And if you're not massaging your skin skin, then you're not getting movement. And movement is medicine. How can you have a pretty skin if you're not massaging and moving your skin?
- [37:41]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [37:41]
Nerida Joy
When we're mostly water and you've got to keep that moving, you know, expression, you know, when you runners and people that just, you know, expression lines is good for our circulation. Muscle contraction is very important for the circulation of our skin.
- [37:58]
Amitai Eshel
Yes.
- [37:58]
Nerida Joy
And when you have stillness, you have no muscle contraction. You better be massaging your face if you're somebody that's doing Botox because how can you get that lymphatic system moving and then you're creating sludge. So now you're going to have a flat, sallow, not pretty skin, you know, so I just sort of, I'm scared to death for the future of a Lot of people that are just doing a lot for this their face. I really am 100% afraid to talk about it obviously, you know.
- [38:31]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah, and it's get and, and, and, and, and unfortunately it's also starting way earlier now. I mean yes, we actually something I, I, it's not, it's, it's not my favorite thing in the world because I'm not against Botox. I'm not against, I'm not against, I'm not by the way, there are very few things that I'm going to tell people. Don't do that. Okay. As you said, burning off your fat and vasculature is probably the only one. But I'm not against Botox. But part of the big thing that I can tell you that is a, that is a big talking point people want to hear us talking about is Botox alternatives. And you know, on Instagram you can see who's asking you questions. Not because you go to their profile you have Instagram telling you oh, this amount of people are, you know, that age. We see like 25 year old asking us for Botox alternatives. And I'm like, you are the alternative. You know, you know what your alternative? Fifteen years.
- [39:30]
Nerida Joy
That's funny. That's funny.
- [39:32]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah. So I completely, completely agree with you. Unfortunately it's starting early and one of the things that we, that we start to see now, you know, 20 years ish is into I would say like non rigid fillers. Fillers that are used more willy nilly is filler and lymphatic movement and vasculature. That's probably something you're seeing all the time as well.
- [39:59]
Nerida Joy
Well the same as you. I mean the facial plastic I used to work with in Beverly Hills when 23 year olds would come into Botox he would say get out of here. And I'm just like, good for you. You know, because you know again, I like you. You know, I have Botox done. I have a little bit between my eyebrows and like a little bit up here in the head. And I stopped him doing it up here because I realized that it's going to affect my hair growth around my hairline by not, you know, by, by creating that stillness. But I do believe in everything in moderation. And I think that again, you know, I think that, that just when you, there's so many great products, products out there that people just don't understand what skin products can do for the skin. They just don't understand it. And you know, there's so much value in the actives that we have. That can really get to fibroblast cells. Fillers now, you know, a lot of them are such a problem because in how they affect the lymphatics, you know, and just. Just in what they do. And, I mean, working with a facial plastic, I've seen people that have had filler that have gone blind in an eye because it, you know, they went to, you know, not a facial plastic surgeon. They went to an, you know, a nurse or somebody that. Somebody that really, you know, doesn't know exactly what they're doing and where they're putting these injections.
- [41:18]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [41:19]
Nerida Joy
I think that fillers are. Are dangerous, too. You know, I think that it's. It's not just that people look puffy and. And that all of a sudden they start to look, you know, a little ch. A chipmunky or whatever. It's just that, you know, what it does to our internal, especially the lymphatic system. And just. It just. It's another thing that's. That's, you know, again, everything in moderation. And I'm always. I'm just going to stay with that. Everything in moderation, everything in excess, even of a healthy thing is the problem.
- [41:49]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [41:50]
Nerida Joy
So I think that you have to have a, you know, a healthy mindset. You've got to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and be able to really, you know, be truthful. Because I tell this story, and I was just in Miami speaking, and I tell this story of a client of mine that was a professional. She was a swimmer, and she was in the Olympics. She did that synchronized swimming. And she's in her 70s, and she's had a lot of sun. She's very lean, very muscular. She's had a lot of sun. So her skin is very loose on her body and, you know, everywhere, really. Her. Everywhere. And so she's had. She'd had a facelift. And after the first facelift, she told me she couldn't turn her head all the way to one side because he pulled her too tight.
- [42:36]
Amitai Eshel
Wow.
- [42:37]
Nerida Joy
And then a few years later, she had another facelift. And so now this. At this point, she said to me, you know what, Nerida? I'm really upset with the doctor. He never pulled. He did not pull my skin tight enough. And we're talking about a woman who had already had the permanent smile going on, but now she's gone for it so tight. And I was so shocked. And I thought to myself, I know I'm going to lose this client, because I've got to say, something right now. And I know she's not going to come back. But you know what? It's worth it to me because I hope I can make her think that's it, because I can't take this anymore. I said, I need you to look at yourself in the mirror right now. And. And I said, look at your face. I said, don't you remember? You couldn't turn your head all the way last time because he pulled it so tight you can't make your neck tighter. But I said, but more importantly, I want you to have a look at your face and your neck. Now let's look at the decollete in the body. And I said to her, you can't make it look any different. Yeah, it looks like it doesn't belong right now. You can't do anymore. You have to stop now. And I knew I'd never see her again. And I hope she found a wonderful esthetician to take care of her moving forward. But I hope I made her think, like, at what point is it enough for people. And the sad thing is, they're constantly trying to fill up this hole in themselves when they really need to go out there and listen to affirmations from Louise Hay or Wayne Dyer and just learn about loving yourself and how beautiful you are just being you with a healthy, pretty skin.
- [44:13]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [44:13]
Nerida Joy
All the lifting and tucking and fillers, and it just is trying to fill up something in themselves that they really just need to go in and understand. You know what? They're really pretty bloody great just the way they are.
- [44:26]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [44:27]
Nerida Joy
Just have some pretty healthy skin.
- [44:29]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah. You know, you really want to look in the mirror. I think one of the best feelings you can ever have is look in the mirror and say, good job. Good job.
- [44:37]
Nerida Joy
Right.
- [44:38]
Amitai Eshel
I agree.
- [44:39]
Nerida Joy
No kidding. Especially in today's world. I. You know, I myself, I had an eating disorder as a teenager, and. And Louise Hay was a big part of my life, you know, learning to love myself and just knowing what that means. And it was really hard standing in front of a mirror saying, I love myself. I mean, it was so, so difficult. But you know what? It just. Nothing is more valuable in life than knowing what that really is. There's nothing richer in life than feeling richness within yourself.
- [45:10]
Amitai Eshel
Amen. That's it.
- [45:11]
Nerida Joy
Amen. Amen.
- [45:13]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah. Nerida, you know, you're Goldman. I can just quote you everything that you're saying. You probably are quoted everything that you're saying. I want to give people. We're rounding out the hour here. I want to give People, some idea on maybe like, you know, you can call it tips, but really, how do you tailor a routine to suit people's different needs? Kind of, we covered, you know, this is how, you know you're oily or mixed. Dry. Mixed. How do you, you know, in broad strokes, how do you create a routine to suit different needs, different habits, different lifestyles?
- [45:54]
Nerida Joy
I mean, I'm going to give you some real basics. How's that?
- [45:57]
Amitai Eshel
Yes. Yes, that's great.
- [45:59]
Nerida Joy
Regardless of where you live in the world, okay. With all the extremities from one coast to the other coast, the most important thing I'm going to say is don't use a foaming cleanser. Don't use a foaming cleanser. Get your skin slate just healthy. Use a cleanser that doesn't make your skin feel tight and squeaky clean. And make cleansing 50% of your regimen. Spend time cleansing your face because that is going to help keep your pore size small. It's going to help with a lot of issues. Number one. Number two is if you're exfoliating, don't use abrasive scrubs. There are so many wonderful exfoliants out there that might be more chemical that absorb dead cells and have a buffing effect on the epidermis. So regardless of what skin you have, regardless of where you live, use an exfoliant that has a buffing effect on your epidermis. You don't need to use scrub. And I'm going to say, if you think about when you don't wear shoes and you walk on the sand on the beach and that sand is exfoliating, what else is it doing? It's thickening the skin. And thickening is not good because then it doesn't allow treatment products to get in. So it's important to use an exfoliant that is gentle but absorbs dead cells. And then I'm going to say use. You have to protect your skin. If you can use a flavonoid, your arnica, your vitamin K, some of these things that really support blood vessels and help nurture and feed the skin nutrients. Fantastic. And you've got to wear a sunblock, you know, and so just some real basics. The sun doesn't matter what Fitzpatrick scale you are, what number you are on the scale, what, what skin coloring you are or where you are in the world, you have to wear a sunblock. And I personally like more physical blocks with titanium and zinc because they're also healing.
- [47:56]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [47:56]
Nerida Joy
So I think everybody needs to wear a sunblock. Everyone needs to wear treatment products, everyone, whether you're exfoliating or not. But if you are exfoliating, use the buffering one, but get your cleanser right nice and spend time cleansing.
- [48:12]
Amitai Eshel
I love it. Nice. And what I like about it, I wanted to have like a following question of like, okay, but how, what, what should they use from things that they already have? You kind of responded to that, which is fantastic. Let's see, what are some of your best in like the ingredients that you like the most? You did mention flavonoids. Any other ingredients that you feel are very important to look for in a.
- [48:35]
Nerida Joy
Yeah, I really, you know, I think that you. I'm going to just tell you something here that that's, that's good for people because I think they can think about this. If you're somebody that has a lot of ruddiness, a lot of redness in your skin, you have heat, maybe you have rosacea. I'm going to say stay away from butters, things that hold heat in the skin because butters are not soothing, cool and calming. So. But some of my favorite ingredients are going to be anything that's, that's going to help support blood vessels, which is why fluoride flavonoids to me is so important. Arnica, vitamin K, I like, I like aloe vera. I like mulberry extract, I like licorice extract. I love Aha's. But you know, again they have to be. It depends on the lipocytical vehicle that they're contained in. I like retinoids. I don't believe in using prescription retinols because they're, they're too aggressive and they're one molecule, retinoic acid. I think there are so many wonderful things that are more soothing but still can help, you know. Peptides, I love peptides. There's a lot of great peptides. They're the bodybuilders. But I, you know, I love Alan twine, I love glycerin. I just sort of, I like hyaluronic acid. I think hyaluronic is, you know, a great moisture binder and it's healing. You know, I love some of the carrot oil. I love a lot of the yellow colored vegetables. That's why I'm huge on the flavonoids. Yeah, I really, I really like, I love it. Yeah, those colors.
- [50:09]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah, I love it. I do have one question that kind of, I wanted to ask before. Do you speak with people about you did you did mention movement?
- [50:19]
Nerida Joy
Yes.
- [50:19]
Amitai Eshel
You know, when, when you meet someone, do you wait until you you look at the problems that they have or do you kind of stress anything from movement to diet to sleep to stress, the impact of stress on the skin to exercise. Do you try and instill those principles or do you leave it to them and their lifestyle?
- [50:39]
Nerida Joy
I think it depends on my clients, my clientele. I don't take new clients. I have a clientele. I have a very private practice and I work with. I love my clients very much. I've had them a long time, a lot of them. So I think that it's, you know, I can recognize if there's something that I think might help my client and then I'm going to talk about it. You know, my clients generally are very healthy, very, you know, conscious of a lot of, you know, I have a lot of healthy clients mentally, you know, physically and spiritually. I think that, you know, they do, but, but if there's something that I recognize, I do talk about it. You know, I think that there's a lot going on in the world. So people have a lot of anxiety, they have a lot of stress. And I think that, you know, you, when you work with people and you want to help people, you. You get the feeling, you know how you can help them.
- [51:34]
Amitai Eshel
I love it. Well, Nerida, listen, this has been a fantastic conversation.
- [51:39]
Nerida Joy
Thank you.
- [51:39]
Amitai Eshel
And I'm very, very, very glad we had you on. I wish we spoke with you before you went to Miami. We live, you know, not far away. Yeah. But please, how can people learn more? Kind of plug into the source of knowledge that is you. Yeah. How are.
- [51:58]
Nerida Joy
Well, I'm, I'm pretty outspoken on my Instagram. My narrator, Joy Instagram. I have a course that there's a five star method that I built that has a lot of, you know, it's, it's mostly for estheticians of people in the business that will appreciate that. There's a lot of my touring trips go in there. It has, you know, a lot of information there. My webinars, everything's in there. It's a one time, it's a lifetime accessor for a one time fee. But generally Instagram, I have a subscription on Instagram as well and they can reach out to, you know, to me at any time through my Instagram. And my office is hellowitheducate your skin dot com. You know, so, yeah, I've just got. Yeah. But I, you know, I have a team of people and we're, we're here to help people.
- [52:50]
Amitai Eshel
Fantastic. We're going to have those links in the show notes. Nerida thank you. You've been incredible.
- [52:57]
Nerida Joy
Thank you. Your skin is fantastic. I. I wish I could see it and touch it, because it just looks so beautiful. Look at that. Wow. What? You have gorgeous skin.
- [53:06]
Amitai Eshel
And I. I have destroyed my relationship with tyrosinate, by the way.
- [53:12]
Nerida Joy
Oh, have you?
- [53:13]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [53:14]
Nerida Joy
The melanocytes. Yeah.
- [53:16]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [53:16]
Nerida Joy
Well, well, you. You look fantastic. So all the best to you. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate that. And. And thank you for being a voice and. And helping to educate people, because this is. This is. We have to do this. It's really important. So I appreciate you having me on. Thank you very much. And. And my love to everybody watching. Thank you.
- [53:36]
Amitai Eshel
Amen.
- [53:48]
Nerida Joy
Sa.