Why Niacinamide Is Not the NAD+ Hero You Think It Is

Summary

Episode Summary: Why Niacinamide Is Not the NAD+ Hero You Think It Is

Biohacking Beauty: The Anti-Aging Skincare Podcast
Hosts: Amitay Eshel & Anastasia Khodzhaeva
Release Date: April 22, 2026

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Main Theme

This episode is part two of a deep-dive series on NAD+ and skin health. The hosts challenge the prevailing belief that niacinamide is the definitive topical NAD+ booster, scrutinizing its real effects, limitations, and alternatives. They bridge the latest systemic longevity research with actionable topical and lifestyle strategies, aiming to help listeners make informed choices for their skin’s health and longevity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Niacinamide: Efficacy and Misconceptions

• Efficacy in Skin Care

  • Referencing a 2005 clinical study, the hosts explain that topical niacinamide at 5% delivers real improvements in fine lines, dark spots, and texture, while 2% does not reach significant results ([05:27]).
  • Quote:
    "There is a hard threshold. Below 4 or 5%, you’re basically wasting money for the most part. Most people have niacinamide products that are underdosed." – Amitay, [06:01]

• Niacinamide as an NAD+ Precursor

  • Most niacinamide’s benefits are not from boosting NAD+, but rather from barrier repair and brightening.
  • It raises NAD+ only through a slow, wasteful metabolic pathway, producing “cellular debris.”
  • Quote:
    "If you're trying to raise your NAD levels through niacinamide, you're doing it in a very roundabout way that creates a lot of debris or waste in the cells." – Amitay, [06:40]

2. Superior NAD+ Precursors: NMN and Novel Molecules

• Delivery Challenges
  • NMN is more promising but is water-soluble and struggles to penetrate the skin barrier ([08:54]).
• Formulation Innovations
  • Recent studies (2024) show that combining NAD+ precursors with CD38 inhibitors (like anaxolon) substantially increases NAD+ in skin fibroblast cultures ([09:26]).
  • The hosts’ R&D focuses on combining NMN with support molecules (quercetin, copper peptides, resveratrol, ergothioneine, spermidine) for a broader approach.
  • Quote:
    "NAD alone does very little... you need the gas pedal, the engine, everything else to use that fuel." – Amitay, [11:57]

3. Delivery Technology: Overcoming the Skin Barrier

• Topical Delivery Systems
  • Liposomal encapsulation, solid lipid nanoparticles, and transfersomes are discussed as methods to ensure intact precursor molecules reach viable skin cells ([12:47]).
  • Clarity that mitochondrial support is essential alongside NAD+ boosters.
  • Skincare trends are shifting toward mitochondrial and mitophagy support, not just “anti-aging” or “longevity” buzzwords ([15:00]).

4. Senescent Cells, Exosomes & the Bigger Picture

• Senescence as a Marker, Not a Cure
  • Clearing senescent cells (“senolytics”) has limited effect—it's a sign of how well the body has been treated, not a direct longevity lever ([16:36]).
  • Platelet-derived exosomes (e.g., Vampire Exosome) have been shown to reduce senescent cells via overall improved cellular health ([17:52]).
• Quote:
  "Reduction of senescent cells as a therapeutic is not going to make you live longer... Senescence is a marker of how you treat your body." – Amitay, [16:47]

5. Lifestyle and NAD+ Optimization

• Fasting ([19:12])

  • Intermittent fasting triggers AMPK and NAMPT, boosting NAD+ synthesis substantially (30–50% increase in animal studies).
  • Special considerations for women due to hormonal cycles.
  • Quote:
    "Compress your eating window, you activate AMPK, which phosphorylates and stabilizes NAMPT—another mitochondrial pathway." – Anastasia, [20:23]

• Exercise ([24:35])

  • HIIT and regular exercise transiently and then chronically boost muscle NAD+ by up to 30%.
  • Quote:
    "A single HIIT session boosts muscle NAD by 20–30% within hours... chronic training maintains it, even on rest days." – Anastasia, [25:30]

• Sleep and Circadian Rhythm ([26:21])

  • NAD+ levels oscillate according to circadian rhythm; highest production and cellular renewal occur at night.
  • Sleep disruption lowers NAD+, undermining all repair processes.
  • Quote:
    "NAD is kind of a master regulator of that biological clock... a depleted NAD cell really has a problem managing its circadian rhythm." – Amitay, [28:19]
  • Skin renews itself up to 8x more overnight ([29:23]).

• UV Exposure & Sun Protection ([31:12])

  • UV exposure drastically depletes local NAD+. Smart sun exposure and topical nicotinamide can reduce UV-induced DNA damage by up to 25%.
  • Red light therapy before sun exposure also protects and helps maintain NAD+ ([32:33]).
  • Quote:
    "There was a study...nicotinamide reduced UV-induced DNA damage by 20-25% within four hours." – Anastasia, [31:24]

• Thermal Stress: Sauna & Cold Plunge ([35:08])

  • Heat: Sauna activates heat shock proteins and SIRT1.
  • Cold: Norepinephrine drives mitochondrial biogenesis.
  • Both practices enhance NAD+ usage and replenishment.
  • Quote:
    "By performing contrast therapy... you stimulate natural production of more NAD and a more efficient use of it." – Anastasia, [37:29]

6. Limits of Systemic Approaches—Topical Is Essential

• After a certain age, the body deprioritizes skin for NAD+ allocation, especially in perimenopause and menopause.
• Quote:
  "If you want to give your skin cells the ability to get sufficient NAD+, the only way to do it is topically." – Anastasia, [45:01]

7. Blueprint for Mitochondrial and Skin Health (Five Pathways Approach)

([53:12])

• 1. NAD+ Production: (e.g., NMN, NR, NAD Apex by Young Goose)

• 2. Mitophagy: Clearing old mitochondria (spermidine, fasting mimetics)

• 3. Mitochondrial Biogenesis: Building new mitochondria (ergothioneine)

• 4. Sirtuin Activation: Fueling genetic repair and longevity signals (fermented resveratrol)

• 5. Amplification: Using exosomes and red light/advanced techniques for full-tissue remodeling

  Quote:
  "If all these layers are in place—fuel, clean-up, rebuilding, signaling, and amplification—that’s when the needle moves on skin age." – Amitay, [57:31]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Niacinamide Dosage:
  "If it's not in your top five or six ingredients, it's probably too low to matter." – Amitay, [06:18]

• Lifestyle Stack Advice:
  "It's much easier to do 50% effort and stack things together than 90% on one modality." – Amitay, [43:35]

• On Sleep's Reframe:
  "You're not just tired... you're shutting down the window when your skin does the heaviest renewal." – Amitay, [30:18]

• NAD+ Is Only the Start:
  "One pathway is a start, but five is what your skin needs to be." – Anastasia, [15:48]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:02] – Clinical data on niacinamide in skin care
• [06:40] – Niacinamide’s underwhelming role as an NAD+ booster
• [08:54] – Intro to NMN and delivery challenges
• [12:47] – Topical delivery technology explained
• [16:36] – Senescent cells, anti-senescent skin care, and exosomes
• [19:12] – Fasting as an NAD+ booster (with anecdotes)
• [24:35] – Exercise and muscle NAD+ levels
• [26:21] – Sleep, circadian rhythm, and skin renewal
• [31:24] – UV exposure: NAD+ depletion & sun protection strategies
• [35:08] – Sauna, cold plunges, and thermal stress for NAD+ and cellular health
• [45:01] – Addressing why topical NAD+ is critical with age
• [53:12] – The five mitochondrial/skin health pathways
• [57:31] – Advanced techniques: exosomes, red light, and creating lasting structural change

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Conclusion

The episode dispels myths about niacinamide’s superiority in topical NAD+ enhancement, urging listeners to consider dosage, mechanism, and the value of holistic stacking—both in topical formulations and lifestyle—over chasing single-molecule trends. For modern anti-aging skin care, multi-pathway strategies and innovative delivery and support systems are essential.

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For further reading, guides, and product information related to the episode, check the episode show notes at younggoose.com.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to another episode of Biohacking Beauty, the topical arm of longevity skincare, brought to you. First of all, my name is Amitaj Eshel. This is and we are the co founders of Young Goose, the world's first longevity skincare. Biohacking, biostacking, biostacking, stacko buying, et cetera. And this podcast is brought to you by Yangoos.

[B]

Only Yungoos.

[A]

Only Yungoos. We don't have any sponsors if you want to sponsor us.

[B]

We don't take any sponsors.

[A]

Sorry. Anyway, Anastasia.

[B]

Yes. Hi.

[A]

This episode. Hi. This episode. What? Hi. We've been together all day. This episode is going to be the second episode in the deep, deep, deep dive. Should they say a submarine type dive? What's it submarine? What does it do? It dives or it just sinks? Actively sinks.

[B]

Yeah. This is part two of an active

[A]

sink into nad, Nad and Skin health. And dare I say the more interesting part.

[B]

Is it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, great.

[A]

Yeah. No, topical.

[B]

I know we started talking yet.

[A]

No, but I get interesting as it goes. Anyway, so this is second part. Before we, we dive in, we sink in before we. We're gonna read. We are going to read a review. Anastasia is going to read a review.

[B]

Actually, no, that is going to read it. I'm not sure I know how to pronounce the last name.

[A]

It's called. Oh. Oh. Sarah Rebel Robuchon.

[B]

I knew you knew this accent much better than I. Rubachot Robichaux.

[A]

French name. Anyway, new community. I recently entered the world of biohacking with no idea about where to start. I also live here in an area where there are not many open minded people. I googled top top rated biohacking podcasts and thankfully stumbled upon Biohacking Beauty. Not only has this couple inspired me to invest in my body, but also in its longevity on a cellular level. I listen to episode after episode and learn new skills to add to my biohack stacking as you like to call it. Okay. I also don't feel so alone in this journey and am happy to have found my community of like minded learners who and people who want to make the most of the body they have. I also just ordered my first Yungoos product and cannot wait to try it. Thank you again, Biohacking Beauty again, Sarah Robuchon. And here's the beautiful thing, Sarah, you only ordered one product. Well, guess what, you're now getting another one. Because every, every review that we read, we're sending a free product. So how do you get this product? I know you found us through Google Googling. But go to Instagram, type in younggooseskincare and DM us and say, hey, you read my review, here are my details, shipping details, and give us the username that we read and you're gonna get free product shipped to you. You could also, if you're not an Instagram person, you can email this to serviceungoose.com and a new product's gonna be on the way. And by the way, she said something interesting because we talk about it once in a while, but that' how we felt when we went to our first biohacking conference. Right?

[B]

Yes, yes. I mean, the best thing that ever happened to us both.

[A]

I mean, I met you, we have

[B]

a son together, and as a company is meeting our community and. Yes. And that really shaped the journey for us and the products we've been formulating while staying in a, you know, constant conversation with the community. So I think that also is why

[A]

we've been multitasking, formulating and conversing at the same time.

[B]

Yeah. But also I think that's why the growth of the brand continues to be a lot of, like, word by mouth.

[A]

Yeah, that's what it's called. Okay. Anyway, Anastasia, we can talk because I couldn't remember. Apparently we can talk forever.

[B]

Word by mouth.

[A]

Word of mouth. Yeah.

[B]

Word by mouth by mouth or off Mouth of mouth. I said bye.

[A]

I said bye. First one word and then the Nevermind. Anyway, listen, we have a lot to go through NAD by plus word by word.

[B]

Mouth by mouth.

[A]

Word, Exactly. So where we left off is how do we then. So we covered what goes in our body. Now let's talk about what goes.

[B]

Yeah, the part one. We covered basically all the science behind NAD and why you should know about it and why you should care about it.

[A]

Yeah. So now we're going to talk about what goes on our skin, which is a completely different delivery. Delivery challenge. So, anesthesia, what does the clinical data actually say about topical NAD precursors?

[B]

Okay, so the strongest evidence is for niacinamide. And 2005 Journal of Cosmetic Dermatology studies showed that they tested 5% niacinamide on 50 women ages 40 to 60 over 12 weeks. And here's what they found. They found significant reductions in fine lines, dark spots, roughness. They saw improved elasticity. But here's the critical detail. They also tested a 2% arm and it failed to reach statistical significance on most endpoints. So what does this tell you?

[A]

It tells me that they should have tested the face. No, I'm kidding. When they say arm it means like another arm of the study that's a joke for the nerds. So there's, there is a hard threshold. I have a few things to say about that. I think, like, if we just silo this discussion, you know, below 4 or 5 or 4 to 5%, which is, which is kind of hard to have multiple ingredients in those percentage points in the skincare formulation. You're basically wasting money for the most part. But most people watching have an ASMI product probably that's underdosed, so they don't even know that. I would have people check their labels tonight and see what they can infer. Normally, if it's not like top five ingredients or six ingredients, it's probably lower than that. The second thing is, and I don't think that's the podcast to get into it, I think we've gotten into it before, but it's a really not great precursor. It has a lot of, like, if you're trying to raise your NAD levels through niacinamide, you're doing it basically through a pathway that you're doing it in a very roundabout way. And that requires a lot of. That creates a lot of debris or waste in the cells when you're doing it. Anyway, check your labels tonight. Interesting how many people have underdosed products.

[B]

But also I think here is the critical point that we are, we were now talking about the effects of, of niacinamide in the skincare formulation. But a lot of the times it's, you, you know, it's not necessarily the, those improvements not necessarily came just because of the, like, it boosted NAD plus. So I think, I think the majority of the people, when they think of niacinamide, they just think of it as a brightening agent. And that's why they're buying niacinamide rich skincare, not to boost their nad. So I think this is a distinction to make like, but because there is couple skincare companies that they do promote as their main theme, boosting nad, and they do indeed have niacinamide as the only ingredient that does that. Well, in that case, you know, stay tuned. We're about to tell you why there are other precursors that do it much better.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You know, to your point, getting, you know, real NAD precursors or NAD into the skin, that is what excites me, excites us about the, you know, cutting edge science out there in formulation.

[B]

Okay, should I talk about those precursors and why it could be a challenge, first of all?

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

So one of the most prominent precursors and if you really didn't listen part one, you should again, you should listen part one first. Just so you know, we don't repeat a lot of the same information, but we talked a lot about NMN. And so NMN is 334 Deltans and it's water soluble, so it doesn't cross the lipid rich stratum corneum, you know, skin barrier, easily. However, in 2024, there was a study that tested something clever. Applying NAD alongside quercetin and an exelon.

[A]

NAD plus precursors. Many men mainly in that study.

[B]

Yes. So I said NAD plus, but it wasn't like the full molecule. It was broken down to its precursors. Thank you. And the anaxolon, if you were wondering what this, this is, it's a molecule that inhibits CD38 and CD38 would chews up your NAD. So everything is here focused on raising NAD. So the idea is to block the enzyme that would immediately destroy the NAD on its arrival in fibroblast cultures. So it was done in vitro intracellular. NAD rose significantly more than with NAD alone. So they. Yeah, go ahead.

[A]

So that's the approach that I think really clicks for me when we are formulating the Youth line of products. So, you know, the origin story, we had an NAD precursor product was called Care. And we really doubled down on the logic of like of use usage of NAD or you know, the prevention of the breakdown of NAD close to absorption. Whether it's, you know, molecules like spermidine which uses the added NAD to stimulate autophagy, or, you know, copper peptides, or, you know, resveratrol, fermented resveratrol or ergothioneine or molecules that really use that which are basically fueling other longevity pathways. So the main thing that I think is important to understand in skincare as a whole, because we are seeing a lot of Nadia skincare coming to market and more, more is coming. So honorable mentions are like Goop and Obagi. What are you guys doing with our molecule? No, I'm kidding. But, but we're gonna see so many other companies coming with this to market. There is a huge, huge, huge celebrity, probably the biggest celebrity that about a year ago we got reached out to design skincare for them based on nad. So which we said, no, but it's coming. The question is NAD alone. And that's something important to understand. Maybe we're going to expand on it later. It does very little. It actually is more potential energy than energy that your body acts on naturally. So it is Important to top off that, that fuel. But you need the gas pedal, you need the engine, you need everything else to use that fuel and not stay in fantasy land or like just that alone. Yeah, upgrade your, you know, other ingredients that upgrade your engine or whatever. So let's talk about delivery technology. Yes, a little bit because it's not only as I said, we need to use it, et cetera, but it's also, you mentioned it's a water soluble molecule and a lot of the times we're hearing oh, it's this big or it's this small, meaning it doesn't penetrate through the skin, the stratum corneum. It's not a barrier, it's a selective barrier. Meaning yes, it's easier to trick it and have very small molecules that would penetrate even though it's trying to stop them, but it doesn't necessarily try to stop all the molecules. Water soluble, very difficult to get through. But let's talk about delivery technologies that allow actually molecules to go through.

[B]

Sure. So liposomal encapsulation is the most common and the most promising delivery technology in skincare. So in our case, the endoment precursors, they're wrapped in the lipid bilayer that fuses with cell membranes. So also solid lipid nanoparticles and transfersomes with deformable bilayers. So the goal really is bypassing this stratum corneum to deliver the intact precursors to viable cells. And as you mentioned, you know, the NAD precursor, they need the whole support system, you know, and we are getting, we talked a lot about where the, the conversion of precursors into the NAD molecule happens and then how it's been utilized in part one. But just to jot everyone's memory, you know, most of the important processes ends up happening in mitochondria and that's why in our complex we, we have a whole mitochondrial support complex. And yeah, I don't know if we're going to be talking more about this today or not, but that's also something that we really, you know, devoted a really long time to in, in R D and you know, mitochondrial skincare. Skincare would focus on the mitochondrial health also is becoming another trend.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if you want, it doesn't have to be two separate trends. It actually has to be not two separate trends for you to get the most out of it. That's I guess what I was.

[A]

I love it. I love it. Since, since we are, I mean we do, we do need to stay within the allotted time. I'll leave it at that you're correct. What we see are basic. I mean, I'm going to touch on another trend in a second, but we see the NAD trend, we see the mitophagy trend, which is, which is recycling of mitochondria. And because it's this, you know, everyone wants to say longevity science, but explaining longevity science is much for the few rather than the many. The many, they want to, you know, they replace in their head the word anti aging with the word longevity and they move on. However, these are two of the five pathways, mitochondrial pathways that we care about for, you know, how your skin looks at the end of the day or your body functions. So mitophagy, you remove, you know, old mitochondria so they can be replaced with new ones. NAD is topping off the raw fuel that your mitochondria needs to function. But we did mention, for example, resveratrol, or we mentioned orgothione, or we mentioned autophagy, spermidine. So all of those play on the different pathways of the mitochondria. And really, as I said, you know, actually it's youth that said it. Like, you know, one pathway is a,

[B]

is a start and five is what your skin needs to be.

[A]

You see, I told you that this is what you said. It's not me. Anyway, another trend is senescent cells and senolytic antisenescent skin care. We did talk about it in the last episode. We talked about how senescent cells drive CD30H8. I'm sorry, which destroys NAD. There is something to say about that. There's a way to attack that from topical side as well. There are peptides that do it. Some are patented, some are not. There are prescription drugs that do it. But I think what, you know, I had a meeting with probably the foremost peptide research in the world. Researcher in the world.

[B]

Yeah, I know you were super excited about this.

[A]

I still am trying to find out a way to work together. Shout out to Professor Pinchas Cohen. We talked about senescent cells and it's funny, I called it the next telomeres because telomeres shorter or longer telomeres are not a longevity strategy. It's a longevity marker. If you're treating your body right, you're going to have longer telomeres. And the same thing goes for senescent cells. Reduction of senescent cells as a therapeutic is not in and on its own, it's not going to make you live longer or it has a very, very specific cap on living longer. And the bigger the organism, the less Effective, that is. And by the way, the research show that mice that don't have the ability to get cells into senescence, they die extremely early. Senescence is a marker of how you treat your body, like telomeres. We want less senescent cells because our entire system works better. We don't target senescent cells necessarily to get the best results. And I think a prime example of it, after I mentioned all of those analytics is for example, exosomes, especially platelet derived exosomes, like we use like other, you know, there's one more company who uses it, but that has been shown, so 2024, I think it was. A study that I'm referring to, has been shown to reduce senescent cells by 40%, but that's due to better cellular function. Right, so shout out to vampire exosome, which is a product that we created. Or there are, there's one more company in the market and the data, as I said, it's pretty, pretty cool, pretty striking. So for the full topical picture, the entry, entry level of NAD precursor is probably niacinamide. You know, 4 to 5% is the lower threshold of effects. We are not big fans of niacinamide. We just want to say that we've developed something called NAD Apex, which targets NAD boosting in a few different dimensions, like three dimensions. And anything from the precursors to improving how your body restores nad antioxidants reduce oxidative damage that drains nad. And if we want to address cellular signaling and health in a way that reduces senescent cells, then exosomes, or specifically platelet derived exosomes is where it's at. Well, let's look a little bit, let's change directions a little bit. Let's talk about lifestyle strategies to boost nad.

[B]

Okay. Okay. So I think we can start by talking about fasting.

[A]

It's up to you. You are the boss.

[B]

Well, I will tell you, once I traveled to Europe for three weeks, I came back and I had a new body. And I found all of the cups and balls that we had in the house were used for coffee. And they were still all in the sink, by the way. Three weeks worth of coffee stained cups and bowls. But yeah, he was fasting. He was fasting. And actually I got really, really nervous. And at the time I was in school and I wrote the paper on fasting, intermittent fasting, because I, I wanted to, I was a meta analysis. It was one of my like senior projects inspired by Mithai and already back then, funny enough, that was like almost 10 years ago the data was available that it's amazing for boosting your energy plus and I'm going to get into it right now and for your muscle building. But it's actually was at the time already questionable for women's hormonal cycles. So just a fun anecdote there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when you compress your eating window, you activate ampk, which phosphorylates and stabilizes

[A]

nampt, another mitochondrial pathway, by the way, one of the ones we spoke about before.

[B]

Exactly. Again, if, if, if you don't know what is ampk? Nampt, refer to the notes from the part one. And then so these are, you know, all of these steps that really help to stimulate NAD plus synthesis. So animal studies show 30 to 50% increases in NA NPT protein levels with color caloric restrictions, 30 to 50% more in 80 plus production from skipping breakfast alone. And then Namita, you want to, you know, share how you adapted to.

[A]

First of all, I think skipping breakfast, I mean I just, I think it's very. By now I think there is more nuance like.

[B]

Yes. And again, I mean I do not recommend skipping breakfast for women. Everything is really questionable because you want to have. If you skip breakfast, make sure you don't. You also skip your coffee or your caffeine intake.

[A]

And I think again, women are more sensitive to that because there is a more reliance on cortisol, you know, cortisol movement spike in the morning and movement throughout the day in order to regulate hormonal. For hormonal regulation. So there's something to say about, to say about that. We do 168 for the most part.

[B]

I don't really.

[A]

Not really. I think you do like 14, you know, fasted 14 hours, something. But I do have an anecdote for you. Do you know why? I think you do. But do you know why? Classically, the classic fasting is 16:8.

[B]

I wrote the paper on it, but now I don't.

[A]

Why, what's the now why did they even choose 16 eight? Why didn't they do. I don't know, 15 and a half. Eight and a half were the shift,

[B]

the shift of the employees. I remember it now.

[A]

Yeah, it's not. First of all, they were grad students in Sichin Panda's lab. And I mean you can tell it if you want, but it's not about the shift. It's about how long their girlfriends allowed them to be in the lab. So the girlfriends of those grad students were like, you're not going to stay in the lab for more than eight Hours. So they're like, okay, I guess we're feeding them for eight hours and seeing what they. So that's why I'm just saying it's a little bit random. You definitely want to listen to your body. You definitely want to, you know, run different tests, see how your body responds. If it's anything from Eli, which is the cortisol, they have some other ones, but like saliva test to see how your cortisol response obviously run. You know, you can test your energy level, so see if it. If it affects you, how it affects you. I think all of that is important, but I think it's a pretty simple biohack with a big payoff to find a way to limit the hours in which the feeding window. As you would.

[B]

I will say though, that, yeah, you recommend people to experiment with their bodies and see what works for them. But you also can refer to a lot of literature that exists on fasting. And my personal favorite book on this, which is. Was published years, like, much seven years later after I wrote the paper. And, you know, my, my, my university paper is Fast like a Girl by Dr. Mindy Pels. There you have all the research you need about fasting. You have so many different ways to do fasting. It could, you know, be up to 72 hours for some people. I'm not saying I've never done that, but it, it could be. And she walks you to how this would be done for females properly.

[A]

Yes. Okay, so.

[B]

But the data is phenomenal.

[A]

Phenomenal. Okay.

[B]

Exercise. You want to talk about exercise?

[A]

How did you know?

[B]

Fast and exercise, they're all. We did our. We did our. We have our notes. We have our notes.

[A]

Okay, so let's talk a little bit about. About exercise. I'm going to move this pillow away from me, but let's talk about what

[B]

did the pillow do to you.

[A]

Talk about exercise.

[B]

Yes. So from our research before this podcast, we saw that a 2012 cell metabolism paper by Kento showed that AMPK activation from exercise directly upregulates nh made them

[A]

sound a little Japanese transcription.

[B]

Since there was so much research happening in Japan, I think I have a good chance of making everyone Japanese and then I'll hit like 50% of the time. So again, exercise for boosting NAD plus try HIIT sessions. Supposedly, according to research, a single hit session boosts muscle NAD by 20 to 30% within hours after the exercise. And here's the compounding part. Chronic training maintains elevated basal nnpt, so your NAD production is permanently higher, even on rest days. So if you Consider it hiit exercise or try it and you didn't love it. But you're like, I need more convincing. Maybe the fact that it boosts your NAD naturally will convince you to give it another go.

[A]

So one, you know, in other words, like one workout gives you a spike, but consistently you get like a permanent upgrade, if you would, which is very difficult to do with a pill. I mean we're being sold a lot of like supplements again, raw mitochondrial function, things like that. This is something very difficult to get even with like a very strong peptide that engages in nampt upregulation, something like 5Amino 1 MQ, which you can buy in pill forms by the way. Very difficult to do what exercise does. It's pretty cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now sleep. Yeah, but I don't mean that you should sleep. First of all, you should sleep. We have a two year old. Sleep is always good. But this one really blows my mind when I look at it because you know, when you explained to me the kind of circadian rhythm skin connection, you know, it really resonated with, with a lot of what we were doing. And that's something I repeat a lot. And then I tell you, have you heard about this and that? You're like, hey, I was the one who told you this. But let's talk a little bit about sleep and NAD.

[B]

So not surprisingly, NAD oscillates the 24 hour cycle. So Nagahata, probably Japanese, showed in 2009 cell paper that Cert 1 uses this oscillation to regulate clock and BMAL1. So basically which are genes. Yeah, translation, translation. So we talked a lot about sirtuin genes and they're the genes that turn on all the repair processes. They need NAD to function and so you need to have more NAD to kind of activate them. So now we're talking about the fact that sleep has certain, you know, waves of, of NAD production. And like I think two, three episodes ago we released a episode about sleep as a guide to like better sleep for your skin. And then we talked a little bit more in depth of those different windows. But yes, you know, there are certain windows of NAD production that peak at night. So you really want to be asleep for that window. So you get the most NAD produced. And unfortunately if you're awake during that window, then you won't get the same NAD production spike.

[A]

And you're saying, in other words, that since NAD is kind of a master regulator of that biological clock that we all have, which every cell has almost individually, it's controlled by the body, but through temperature and things like that. But every cell has their own kind of clock. And NAD is one of those master regulation regulators of that clock, of that every, like the clock that every cell has. And a depleted NAD cell really has a problem managing well its circadian rhythm, its clock. And you know, another, again, another research that you showed me in preparation to this episode, which showed that there is a difference of almost Eightfold difference between different times depending on where you are on the circadian rhythm, how your cells divide almost Eightfold as far as time. So eight times more active at night than they are in the day as far as like renewing themselves.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's why a lot of the times when we design AM&PM routines, we're saying, hey, you know, the AM, you really want to protect your skin. You want to make sure there's not a lot of damage happening. Do you want to use the longevity molecules? Definitely, because as we said in the, in the previous episode, after one UV, like serious UV exposure event, you have 90% less NAD in your cells, in your skin cells. You definitely want to protect that, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if you want to use longevity molecules like NAD or mainly NAD to fuel repair, you want to use it at night because that's when all of these things happen. It's an Eightfold more renewal happens at night. So when someone, you know listening to it when you're doom scrolling at night, like in midnight or sleeping inconsistently, you're not just tired, you're not just your, your brain is not the only thing that's tired. You're shutting down the window when your skin does the heaviest renewal. I think that to me at least is a different, it's a reframe on sleep.

[B]

Yeah. It's not just, you know, your rest, it's an ad dependent repair session, the sleep itself. So that's why we talked a lot about staying, going to sleep at consistent times. And there are also, you know, some people believe that they're like night owls and unfortunately, you know, you might believe it or you're most productive at night. And you know, there are, there are different careers, like I would assume a lot of, I don't know, musicians record at night or something like that. But unfortunately you will pay the price of having lower NAD plus and less renewal. And it's just, it's, I think it's important to give people the information that they can make their choice.

[A]

Yeah, I do want you maybe to touch on because I don't know how much we touched on and I think it's an interesting subject can you touch on the PLOS One study on UV radiation and nad?

[B]

Yes. So let's not overlook the sun protection as NAD plus strategy. So as you mentioned, there was a study in 2015 that showed nicotinamide reduced UV induced DNA damage by 20 to 25% within four hours. So combining UV avoidance and I know a lot of biohackers are listening to us and they're gonna be like, what do you mean? Sun is a friend and sun is a friend, but just choose wisely. Okay. When to expose your skin to the sun. And if you, if you are doing all the strategies we talked about this episode to boost your nad, so you, you then have multiple effects so you have less damage from a direct UV exposure on your skin, which will actually deplete your nad. Because there will be need repair to happen and you pay for it with nad. And you also get it more NAD through all of the strategies we talked about. Be topical skincare, beat fasting, be it sleep, be it exercise, then you're just, you know, you're multiplying your bank of NAD plus.

[A]

Yeah. I would even add one more thing to it. There is a study out of Yonsei in Korea. I probably have talked about this study before and now I can't remember. It's 2020, like 2009 or 2013 out of the University of Seoul. You understand Korea, that looked at exposure to red light therapy before going out to the sun.

[B]

Yeah, we talked about it.

[A]

Yeah. And that is also again like that mitochondrial optimization. And there is less UV damage after, after you've done that. And yes. So definitely that's one way to, to look at, you know, what do we do? Okay. We want to do. You know, I have this very nice son of one of our first. Remember Todd, Todd from Indiana that has, that has like a landscaping company. Like one of our first. Shout out to Todd Rostron, one of our first clients ever.

[B]

Oh, I probably just don't know his occupation.

[A]

Okay, okay. But his son reached out. He's like, hey, I'm going to be in Florida. I want to see you guys. Great, Fantastic. Come on over. He's like, I'm going to be at the beach. I'm going to do like sun maxing and I'm going to come to you the day after. First of all, the guy lives in Indiana. You know, give him some sun. However, I respect the fact that you want to use all of the tools for wellness and I think we do need to do like a deep dive on, you know, our best approaches for Interaction with the sun. But here's a few things. You are depleting NAD locally when you're exposed to uv. So ask yourself, like, where do you want that UV depletion to happen? There is.

[B]

You mean NAD plus depletion?

[A]

NAD depletion, yes.

[B]

UV depletion.

[A]

Sorry. Yeah. The second thing is this. You know, there was a reason people were sunning their behinds, Right. Why is that? It's because they're the widest. You make more. You make more vitamin D etc there. So choose areas that are not exposed normally to the sun. They're actually going to synthesize more of the good things. And anyway, you're not getting enough sun there.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's a. That's a kind of constant strategy that we. It's a good thing. It's a good reminder that guys, your face, your hands, your arms, your necks, they're always exposed, you know, so it's a better idea to expose to the sun the areas that don't normally. Not thermally exposed.

[A]

But I love what you said about the sunscreen. Is the savings account of nad. I love that. Reframe again, the framing. One more thing is. Is thermal exposure.

[B]

Yeah. You know the contrast therapy.

[A]

Contrast. You know, thermal stress, sauna, cold plunges. You do both, I do both. Our eyes. Our cold plunge is broken.

[B]

But technically, I know that's why I had the face. I was like, do we. Do we.

[A]

We need to get a new one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you have any. By the way, if anyone has suggestion for their favorite cold plunge filling the blanch.

[B]

Yeah. Please let us know. We're currently relying on Equinox amenities and we love Equinox, but cold is not as hot as we would have had it if it was at our home. I understand. We also live in the area with a lot of elderly people. They have to protect themselves. They don't want anyone to pass out on the sauna. So I get it. And the cold shower that they have inside of the planche, it's an option.

[A]

It's a nice story. Cool story, bro.

[B]

Yeah. But we are collecting referrals, references on your favorite saunas and cold blanches because we've had a couple that broke. So we're trying to find reliable partner in our contrast therapy at home.

[A]

So the first thing I would say. So we're talking about contrast therapy or just like temperature as it relates to what we're talking about now, super interesting subject I mentioned before because I don't want us to actually get to circadian rhythm here that much. So I'll just kind of close the loop on what I said before. Your mass regulator for circadian rhythm is temperature or one of the mass regulators together with light. That's why people, you know, you have companies like eight sleep that cool you down when you go to sleep. But we're going to cap it at that, okay. Both, you know, whole body cellular cold and heat are important to control your circadian rhythm. But I do want, if you can, for you to like kind of dive a little bit deeper into the mechanisms of how temperature communicates directly with. With skin. Longevity.

[B]

Yes. So high temperatures, the ones that you get to in saunas, activate heat shock proteins that interact with SIRT1 pathways. And then cold exposure triggers norepinephrine, which drives.

[A]

By the way, first time I heard about it, I was shocked.

[B]

Cause it's shock protein which drives me. So, okay, so we have again, activation of Cert 1 gene, which is the repair gene, through shock proteins when you exposed to very high temperatures in sauna, and then when you are in a cold plunge, norepinephrine drives mitochondrial biogenesis through regulation of, you know, certain cascades. And both of those conditions, both of those practices, sorry, create conditions where NAD is used more efficiently and replenished more vigorously. So by performing contrast therapy, you, you know, through the pathways that I mentioned above, you stimulate natural production of, of more NAD and you know, use of it. And you know, as you can see, there is a, there is a pattern here. Like there basically, if you do indeed take care of yourself, you know, and have you exercise, okay, and you, you fast, you sleep well, you optimize your sleep and the windows and the times, and you do contrast therapy, you can maybe, maybe save on some very expensive NAD plus injections and have them produce naturally.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I want to take a moment to tell you about something we've been working on for, for years here at Yungoos. Our newest innovation, vampire exosomes. You've probably heard us talk before about how most skincare focuses on surface fixes. A cream here, a peel there. While ignoring what's actually happening inside your cells. Vampire exosomes are different. They are PRP derived exosomes, meaning they come directly from plants, platelets, the body's natural repair system. Each exosome carries micrornas and growth factors that tell your skin to repair, renew and reorganize collagen. Basically, it's how your cells communicate healing

[A]

directly to your tissues.

[C]

What makes this launch so special is that we finally have quantified potency. Each 30 milliliter bottle contains 3 trillion exosomes, or 25 billion exosomes per drop. And every batch is third party tested for both exosome count and microrna profile.

[A]

That's true transparency.

[C]

You know exactly what you're getting in and that it's active, stable and real. The formula is shelf stable, gentle, and designed to protect the exosomes. We've even paired it with Rejuve nad, a cosmetic active that boosts the skin's NAD economy, the molecule your cells use for energy, so the exosomes can actually do their job once they've been delivered. The results have been incredible. Early human imaging shows visible improvements in tone, redness and fine lines within weeks. Not because we're forcing change, but because we're giving your skin the right signals for repair itself. If you want to experience it, go to younggoose.com and use the code PODCAST10 for 10% off your first order. That's yungoos.com code PODCAST10. The link and the details are also in the show notes. And now let's get back to the episode.

[B]

Speaking of injections and supplements, do you want to talk about that?

[A]

For sure. I just want to say, you know, the minimum for what we talked about with cold exposure, it's not, is not crazy. I mean, do I go crazy? I do, but you don't need to. You know, if you are at 170, 15 minutes cold, cold exposure, like two minutes in an ice bath, you know, below 50 degrees, three, four times a

[B]

week for 15 minutes at 170, and then even just two to three minutes of cold exposure three to four times a week. And you'll. You'll boost your natural NAD plus production.

[A]

Exactly. Especially. Here's the thing, most of the things that we're talking about were done more or less in isolation. I mean, the people, you know those.

[B]

Yeah, they didn't mention that. Yeah, all of those studies, they, they had them to do it one thing at a time.

[A]

Yeah, I think the only thing, and that's. There was a shout out to Morosco Forge, Tom Seeger. They had the. They have an annual kind of like a conference for. I don't know how they call it, like for cold plunging for. I don't know if they call it like a temperature regulation conference or whatever. But they did, they did analyze. They do like a meta analysis of the, of the sauna life extension studies, the ones that were like, for 20 years in Scandinavia, etc. And they're like, hey, guys. Yeah, exactly. And they're like, hey, guys, how come no one realizes that yes, they did sauna, but after that did cold exposure. Like, no one talks about that. I think that's the only one that we can't say was it was in extreme isolation. But other things weren't tracked. Right. Their exercise patterns weren't tracked. Sleep definitely wasn't tracked. Sunscreen, even screen time. Right. These were all isolation type studies. So when we stack all of those together, things really add up very nicely. So you don't need to go crazy in any one of those to get amazing benefits if you do indeed stack all of them together. And it's much easier to do, you know, 50% effort and stack things together than like 90% effort on one modality.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Am I making, I'm making.

[B]

No, I love that.

[A]

Especially if you use, you know, also topical NAD and stuff like that. You're really, you know, you're really hitting it. Your cells are going to be swimming in nad. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. I would love for you to walk our listeners briefly through how they could support, you know, their topical how to get the NAD directly into the skin. And I will just say that all of these ways of boosting NAD we just talked about, they're all amazing. But unfortunately, after a certain age, especially for women, the body start stops allocating NAD for your beauty, basically representation. And that would be your hair, your nails, and of course your skin. So if you are in perimenopause on menopause, you could be doing hit sessions and you could be doing the contrast therapy and you could be fasting. You could do a lot of things and you will boost nad, but it will not. Your body will prioritize it for the liver, for the, for the brain. So if you want to give your skin cells the ability to get sufficient NAD plus so they can go about their daily functions better, the only way to do it is topically.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would go, I think, you know, you had a very good post recently on Instagram, but I'll go back to like treating the mitochondria in the best way and I'll make some sense

[B]

of what post you're referring to.

[A]

The one about the, you know, one, one pathway is this and that. Five pathways are that. But basically I'm going to go through NAD specifically and then maybe other ingredient, other ingredients that I believe are key in order to then kind of interact with high levels of NAD in the skin. Because we did launch, you know, we researched NAD in the skin since 2017. We launched First Care 2020 and we found out the beginning of the company, even in research, before the product was out, we found out that in isolation, we either saw incredible results, even with you on your dermatitis, but with. Mainly with older people that had a lot of things that their skin was really, you know, starved of nad, starved of nad. But there was also a lot of signal for repair day in, day out. Right. And we saw crazy results in people 35, 40 going through perimenopause, things like that. The problems were that the signaling and the amplification of signals, which I'm going to talk about in a second, that was one of the things that were really shutting down in their cells in their skin. And then even if we just increased NAD alone in isolation, it wasn't enough to create the results they were looking for. Or if they were to use it for 15 years, their skin would have been much better than it would have without it. But that lady or gentleman wanted results in like a month or two. Right. Or even, you know, to look better for a wedding. That's six months.

[B]

You know what comes to my mind that. Do you always say in to. To like. Yeah, that. That the body doesn't know that wrinkle is a problem?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So when, when somebody started using our topical energy formulation at the time. Right. You know, they're getting that NAD and, you know, but the, the body, like, did not funnel it to repair the wrinkle. It. It funneled it to other things that skin cells still need to operate. Well, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So let's talk about NAD specifically. I'm, I'm going to. First of all, we want to. Let's address niacinamide. So niacinamide basically is the kind of a waste material in the, in, in the NAD usage kind of life cycle. And the problem is that if we're going to add more and more and more niacinamide, we're basically adding more homework for the body as far as what the body needs to create an idea out of. And that's the first of. It's a long process. So it's a process that the body. It takes a while for the body to do that. But there are things that we mentioned, nampt, we have these different enzymes, these different proteins that are in charge of taking those waste materials and like reassembling nad. And when enzymes do it, there is a limit to that. There is fatigue, et cetera. Okay. It's not a perfect process, and it can be harmful if you do it chronically over time. And we've, we've done some, we've had Some information about it in the past, but niacinamide is very difficult within those parameters. We want to. So the reason that NAD precursors like NMN and nr, mainly nmn. NR is more like in your organs, like liver, things like that. We found NMN to be more effective is that they have like a plug and play mechanism, right? They hang out outside the cell. They don't need to wait in line for the party, right? They. They arrive to the vip. What's it called? The vip. It shows you. I haven't been to a club in 15 years. They arrive to the VIP entrance to the club, they get it, get in immediately, they hand them a drink at the entrance and they go party, right? Did I say that's what happens in clubs?

[B]

I don't know why you asking me? It's not like I go clubbing every day.

[A]

Yeah, but you have friends that do. Anyway, bottom line, I don't know.

[B]

So what entrance did you arrive? Did they give you champagne when you arrived? Listen, how is it to be.

[A]

I have a feeling you never. I have a feeling you never waited in line for a club. Okay, anyway. No, no, that's true. That's NAD precursors. I, I want to make sure I, I provide this information in a very digestible way. So we're glazing over like what are the pathways or anything like that. But these are plug and play easy mechanisms. The body doesn't need to expend a lot of energy to do what to, to convert NMN to, to skincare, to skincare, to nad. So I'm going to go quickly about what we want to see in a perfect mechanism of raising NAD levels. We want to have a precursor that has a very, very specific delivery system. I think that's the most you had, the little segment where you said what's needed to happen in that bilayer of an NAD molecule to get it or an NMN molecule to get it really deep into the skin. We're going to have more information about it on the website soon. We're running some studies on penetration. But for now it's very basically like the rule is like your skin barrier needs to recognize that it's something that it wants to pull into the skin. It needs to be nano sized and then it needs to be able to be opened up very quickly when it gets to where we want it to get in the cells and kind of used. But that's not the end of the story. Your body basically recycles more than 2 grams of NAD a day, which is more than you can supplement, you know, high supplementation doses are like a gram, you know, a four hour IV nadiv is 750 milligrams. Right. So like it's a lot. Your body recycles a lot. We can help. You mentioned nampt that recycling mechanism. We can help that. So there are, you know, there is a very good, it's called rejuvenate or Rejuvenate D we call it, which is a very cool extract that is extracted from sunflower seeds that boosts an ampt. We mentioned the peptide called 5:1 MQ that you can, most people do it as a pill. It's much safer than injectable. It's very expensive. But that's something that can be used orally to increase the. If you don't want to do a topical like what we have in NAD Apex, that would allow people to recycle more NAD. If you want to do the pill form 300 to $400 a month of 5.01mq peptide. And what we are looking at is a really cool new Precursor is called MN20, which is a cousin of niacin, which also is, it's just another traveling a different highway, getting to NAD in a different highway. Way more slow, released, way more complex like simple carbohydrates and complex carbohydrates. So this is, this is a really cool new precursor we have in blue peptide spray. And we're going to introduce it in more products as time goes on. We definitely are looking into innovations in the field, but that's what we found currently to be the pinnacle, the golden standard of nad. NAD maintenance in the skin. But I do, I do want you to maybe as to close this. I do want you to talk about more of the bigger picture. You mentioned those five mechanisms, those five pathways in the mitochondria. And I want you to focus on ingredients that would allow us to reap the benefits of nad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of cells swimming in nad, as I call them. So they're swimming. What are we doing with it now? What are the ingredients that really allow us to take our skin to that really optimal level? Because we've, we've taken care of our nad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's, maybe we should start with that. That's a mitochondrial pathway. Like increasing NAD is one of the five mitochondrial pathways, right?

[B]

Yes, yes. And that, we do that with NAD plus apex.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which we talked a lot about. You know, what it is and, and what's inside of it. And that's, that's that, that fuel that you're you're scared. Skin cells need. Right.

[A]

And you can find it in, you know, all the youth products.

[B]

You can find it youth line products. You can find it in Ladder. You can find it in methylene blue spray, which is called peptide spray. And speaking of methylene blue, that is also very complimentary to NAD plus boosting. That actually, like, upgrades the engine itself, like the output of mitochondria and you know, how much NAD plus boosting you get out of it or how much

[A]

ATP it kind of creates.

[B]

Right. How much ATP? Really? Sorry. Yeah, it creates. That would be a better way to say. Then what else? We have fermented resveratrol that basically.

[A]

Maybe first. Maybe I'll direct you just so it'll make sense to people, I think. Let's talk about. We did mention mitophagy, where mitophagy is a part of autophagy. Autophagy is a more correct term to call it because mitophagy is a part of it. So how do you.

[B]

So mitophagy is a recycle of old and dysfunctional mitochondria. And the ingredient that we chose to use to stimulate that will be spermidine.

[A]

Yes, correct. Okay, great.

[B]

So in our formulas we have Salvio spermidine, which, you know, the full spectrum spermidine. And it really helps you to remove the waste material.

[A]

And funny enough, it mimics fasting. We talked a lot about fasting. That is where this comes from, right?

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

Okay, so we cleared out old mitochondria. Now what is. Is it just dead space? There's just like, what do we build real estate there? We put it on Zillow. What are we doing?

[B]

We need to create new mitochondria. And to do that we could use ergotin. Well, we use ergotin in our formulas. And the reason we chose ergotinine, and it's the only antioxidant, have the direct transporter into mitochondria.

[A]

Yeah, I like to call it as like a mitochondrial antioxidant.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it's really cool. It really trigger. It's really two. Two really cool things about ergothione. And first is that transporter. I think it's called OCTN1 or something like that. OCT1. One cool thing immediately goes into your mitochondria, triggers biogenesis. But the second thing is it's more bioavailable through your skin than through your gut. Yeah. So it's really cool. A lot of, like, data around bioavailability. Wonderful studies. Okay, so we've built those Pneumonochondria. We've operated the engine. We tapped the energy fuel tank.

[B]

Like. Yeah, we have more of it.

[A]

More of it. We cleared out old engines, we built new ones. Then how do we use all of that?

[B]

Yes. And that's where the fermented resveratrol comes in. So that is what tells your body to activate SIRT1, which we talked about, those longevity genesis youth genes, that they will activate repair processes, and they need NAD to function. So you feed your sirtuin enzymes with nad, you know, and then they go and do that important work.

[A]

Yeah. And then we mentioned a little bit also other enzymes like parps, which repair UV damage. Really cool. Really cool things. I'll give you two. I'll give two honorable mentions here, because we did mention again, vampire exosomes. So exosomes, I think, are the next layer, which is like, okay, now we have all of that. Our genes are dialed in everything. Now we need to basically some signaling for bigger things than mitochondria. Bigger. Basically. How do we now signal, like complete cellular renewal, cellular overhaul. How do we build the infrastructure? Or we build the infrastructure now we need to build the. Now it's time for Zillow. And I think the third layer is harnessing other technologies. Maybe we'll do other episodes about that. This is not for today's episode, but harnessing other technologies like red light therapy or microneedling or things like that to stimulate remodeling.

[B]

But all of these processes, be it properly getting all the benefits out of red light therapy or microneedling or whatever else, we'll share all of that is only possible if you have enough NAD in the Bing.

[A]

Yes, exactly. But it is also the best way to get the most out of your quest to increase nad. So I would say where you should start as far as, like, that third layer is which. Which is the amplification layer. Okay, we. We're. We're causing remodeling. We're. We're creating healthy tissue. Now how do you kind of. Kind of, no pun intended, poke it or prod it into the right direction? Okay, we want to, you know, wrinkles are the issue here. We want to repair wrinkles, et cetera. Best way, I think red light therapy and ladder, which we created, ladr, is really the way to kind of take care of that third layer. But that's. There you have it. I think. I think this is a great podcast as far as nad.

[B]

Yeah. I think for. For all of those that are asking, why an ed, how an ad. What an ad hopefully the part one and part two answers all of the questions. We probably will put some kind of guide together. What do you think?

[A]

Yes, the guide has already been written, my dear.

[B]

Okay. So directly from Amitai Eshel. You will get the guide in the show notes. Just got to click the show notes, put your email, get the guide.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Well, we had the honor of being in your ear for the last hour or so. This is Anastasia Khoja, Amitay Eshel.

[B]

Thank you guys.

[A]

Like, subscribe and we'll see you here next time.

[B]

See you.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

It.