Your Skincare Routine Is Stuck in One Phase — Your Hormones Aren't

Summary

Biohacking Beauty: The Anti-Aging Skincare Podcast

Episode Title: Your Skincare Routine Is Stuck in One Phase — Your Hormones Aren't
Host/Author: Young Goose
Release Date: May 21, 2025

Introduction

In this enlightening episode of Biohacking Beauty: The Anti-Aging Skincare Podcast, host Anastasia, co-founder of Young Goose, engages in a profound conversation with Jodi Duvall, the esteemed clinical naturopath and founder of Revital Health Clinic. Together, they delve into the intricate relationship between hormonal cycles and skincare, offering listeners invaluable insights into achieving radiant, youthful skin through biohacking and personalized routines.

Guest Introduction and Background

Anastasia begins by sharing her recent experience as a guest on the Revital Health Podcast, hosted by Jodi Duvall. She expresses her excitement about reconnecting with Jodi for a "deep and meaningful conversation" that touches on various aspects of skin health influenced by hormonal changes.

Anastasia (00:00):
"I recently had the honor of being a guest on the Revital Health podcast with Jodi Duvall, a brilliant clinical naturopath we've admired for years."

Jodi reciprocates the warm welcome, highlighting the mutual admiration and anticipation for this collaboration.

Jodi Duvall (01:31):
"I have the most beautiful, stunning Anastasia here with me today."

Understanding Skin Changes Through Hormonal Cycles

The core discussion revolves around how hormonal fluctuations throughout the menstrual cycle impact skin health. Anastasia outlines the four primary phases—menstrual, follicular, ovulatory, and luteal—and their respective effects on the skin.

Menstrual Phase (Days 1-5)

During this phase, hormone levels are at their lowest, leading to reduced sebum production. This can result in skin appearing dull, dry, and more sensitive. Anastasia emphasizes the importance of avoiding painful skin procedures during this time.

Anastasia (22:11):
"Your skin is also incredibly dry during this phase, so it can benefit from rehydration with your heavier serum or moisturizer."

Follicular Phase

As estrogen levels rise, the skin gains increased moisture, texture, and radiance. This is an optimal time for exfoliation and introducing potent skincare actives.

Jodi Duvall (15:41):
"There's so much application to it. She really tells you what to do, which is rare... So yeah, it was the most practical book that I've ever gotten to really help me understand how my body functions around the cycle."

Ovulatory Phase

Though brief, this phase can lead to oily skin due to elevated estrogen and the onset of luteinizing hormone, increasing the potential for blemishes.

Anastasia (33:13):
"As we go into phases, I can then just maybe share a little bit more when exactly that happens."

Luteal Phase

With rising progesterone, sebum production increases, making the skin more prone to blackheads, whiteheads, and hormonal acne. Additionally, heightened progesterone can lead to increased photosensitivity.

Anastasia (34:39):
"If you have anything anti-inflammatory in your regimen, that's when it goes to prevent the acne in your period."

Aligning Skincare with Hormonal Shifts

Anastasia and Jodi discuss the significance of synchronizing skincare routines with these hormonal phases to maximize skin health and appearance. Anastasia shares practical tips tailored to each phase, advocating for a dynamic approach rather than a static daily regimen.

Anastasia (25:07):
"If you know that you're about to get waxing, microneedling, just say that it's not around your menstrual phase."

Postpartum Skin Journey and Self-Care

Anastasia opens up about her personal postpartum skin challenges, including inflammation and unexpected weight gain around the face. This experience underscored the importance of self-care and informed the vision behind Young Goose's focus on NAD and longevity science.

Anastasia (08:52):
"Postpartum, that's when I was like, oh my God, I really can't work from an empty cup. I just now really experience this sentence like severely on the slept so much cortisol adrenaline still from birth."

Jodi echoes the hardships of motherhood, emphasizing the necessity of self-care rituals.

Jodi Duvall (13:21):
"It's those small little moments... it's a ritual every morning and nighttime routine that you give to yourself."

Debunking Common Skincare Myths

A significant portion of the conversation is dedicated to dispelling prevalent skincare misconceptions, particularly concerning radiofrequency microneedling and unconventional treatments like salmon sperm facials.

Radiofrequency Microneedling

Anastasia warns against the risks associated with radiofrequency microneedling, highlighting potential long-term skin damage and the misleading promises often promoted by influencers.

Anastasia (43:38):
"There are just very few candidates for radiofrequency microneedling, and the potential reward does not outweigh the risks."

Salmon Sperm Facials

The duo criticizes the trendy yet questionable practice of using salmon sperm in facials, pointing out the lack of efficacy and potential for negative skin reactions.

Anastasia (50:40):
"Just jumping on this fairly risky treatment... treating ourselves like that is not a good treatment for our skin."

The Crucial Role of Sunscreen

Addressing debates around sunscreen usage, both Anastasia and Jodi reaffirm its importance in preventing skin damage and maintaining youthful skin, despite some contradictory claims in recent studies.

Anastasia (34:39):
"Sun just degrades our skin... If you want to maintain some kind of good skin appearance and vitality, you absolutely need sunscreen."

They discuss the complexities of sunscreen ingredients and advocate for products that also protect against blue light and environmental pollutants.

Jodi Duvall (37:04):
"We can never control all of the variables... but we absolutely need that protection from the external environment conditions."

Innovations and the Future of Skincare

Looking ahead, Anastasia shares exciting developments at Young Goose, notably the introduction of metabolomics testing. This personalized approach allows individuals to optimize their skincare based on real-time metabolic data, rather than relying solely on genetic predispositions.

Anastasia (54:06):
"With metabolomics testing, you can see all of the metabolites and adjust your regimen accordingly... it gives a different picture on the inside."

Jodi expresses enthusiasm for these advancements, recognizing the potential for holistic health optimization.

Jodi Duvall (56:32):
"Metabolomics for health optimization of your body and your skin. I love it."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with heartfelt exchanges between Anastasia and Jodi, emphasizing the importance of education, personalized skincare, and self-care rituals in achieving lasting skin health. Anastasia invites listeners to engage with Young Goose through upcoming conferences and their dedicated podcast for deeper dives into skin optimization.

Jodi Duvall (61:27):
"I listen to episodes when I need to know more about skincare and tell clients because I ask, I get asked it all the time."

Anastasia (61:34):
"I'm so happy to hear that. It's a resource for you because you're so knowledgeable."

Key Takeaways

• Personalized Skincare: Aligning skincare routines with hormonal phases can significantly enhance skin health and appearance.
• Self-Care Importance: Incorporating skincare into daily self-care rituals benefits both skin and overall well-being.
• Myth Busting: Critical evaluation of trendy treatments is essential to avoid potential skin damage.
• Sunscreen Usage: Essential for preventing skin degradation, despite varying opinions in recent research.
• Future Innovations: Metabolomics testing represents a groundbreaking approach to personalized skincare, offering real-time insights for optimization.

Notable Quotes

• Anastasia (00:00):
  "I recently had the honor of being a guest on the Revital Health podcast with Jodi Duvall..."

• Jodi Duvall (27:38):
  "Follicular phase is the preparing phase as well... knowing what's coming and preparing for that."

• Anastasia (43:38):
  "There are just very few candidates for radiofrequency microneedling, and the potential reward does not outweigh the risks."

• Anastasia (54:06):
  "Metabolomics testing... you can see all of the metabolites and adjust your regimen accordingly."

Resources and Further Engagement

Listeners are encouraged to visit Young Goose's website, follow their Instagram, and tune into their dedicated Bion Beauty podcast for more in-depth discussions on skin health and biohacking techniques. Upcoming events include the Biohacking Conference in Austin and Eudaimonia in West Palm Beach, Florida, where Young Goose will showcase their latest innovations.

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Embark on a journey of youthful, resilient skin by aligning your skincare routine with your body's natural rhythms. Tune into Biohacking Beauty for more expert insights and transformative tips on aging gracefully.

Transcript

[Anastasia]

Foreign. Welcome back to Bio Hiding Beauty. I'm Anastasia, co founder of Young Goose, and today I'm thrilled to share something a little different with you. I recently had the honor of being a guest on the Revital Health podcast with Jodi Duvall, a brilliant clinical naturopath we've admired for years. It was such a joy to finally connect with her for a deep and meaningful conversation. In this episode, we explore how our skin changes throughout the menstrual cycle and why aligning your skincare routine with your hormonal shifts can completely transform your skin health. I also opened up about my own postpartum skin journey and how that experience helped shape the vision behind young goals and our passion for NAD and longevity science. We didn't stop there. Jodi and I also talked about our latest project, metabolomics testing for personalized skin optimization. If you've ever felt like your skin was unpredictable or that standard skincare advice just doesn't cut it, this conversation is going to resonate. Jodi Duvall is the founder of Revital Health Clinic, where she leads the way in integrative and functional medicine. She brings a wealth of insight and beautifully holistic perspective to the table. And I'm so excited to share our conversation with you. Let's get into it.

[Jodi Duvall]

All right. I have the most beautiful, stunning Anastasia here with me today.

[Anastasia]

Yeah. Hi. Oh, thank you so much.

[Jodi Duvall]

Thank you.

[Anastasia]

It's a pleasure to be here.

[Jodi Duvall]

Oh, we have been wanting to do this for many years.

[Anastasia]

Well, yeah, I know. We have chatted so many times behind the camera and every time you would be like, hey, we gotta record this conversation and share it with the world. So finally we're doing that.

[Jodi Duvall]

I've held you down and I'm gonna do it. So finally we are getting to chat about the cycle and skincare and I'm so stoked that you're here with me.

[Anastasia]

Yeah.

[Jodi Duvall]

So let's, let's get rolling. And I, I first wanted to ask you how and why you landed with Young Goose and what it means to you to have an amazing skincare journey for yourself. Because someone behind the brand makes it, makes it so impactful for others because you've now created this incredible. Obviously you know, co founded with your beautiful husband, but you've co founded this amazing skincare brand that we all get to enjoy now. So what was, what was the vision, what was the story and how have you landed here?

[Anastasia]

Well, so first of all, thank you. It always makes my day to year that people enjoy the product. And we actually just came back from Health Optimization Summit. And when we do in person events, we also get to hear feedback from customers that we don't get to see dayto day. And we just got so much love that I feel like I'm flying. Really. It was like a love fest. And it was also in Austin, which a lot of the health events, the early health events that we ever went to back in the day, just myself, like I'm a dying myself to the two of us, you know, talking to people about the skincare that they never heard about and they had to give it a chance. And now we met people that just that have been with us for five plus years and it's really incredible. And a lot of people, I still actually remember them by name, which I'm really bad with memory for names. That's impressive. And I just, yeah, I just remember what products they bought. And now they're telling me, you know, that they're listening to our podcast, which I know you have been a guest of. So it's just like it really comes full circle. But to answer your question, the very beginning we had sort of an interesting story. I think we were very much NAD enthusiasts. We just loved everything about NAD. And it's back then it was like early 20, 15, 16 and we just saw so much potential in it, but it was so, so expensive. It still is, but now the market is quite large and there are so many players and there are different entry levels for supplement for NAD that exists. It didn't exist back in the day was at those years it was just NAD ivs and it was thousands of dollars and obviously it was only affordable for the fortunate few. And so we had this idea and actually it was a mitized idea that, oh, let's see if we can have it transdermal and have it for the whole body. So we started research in 2017 and, and you know, shortly after we found out that the cells, the skin cells actually really needed, they really crave this NAD plus. And no, it does not go out of the cell. Like once it's in there, it does not continue past it. So you can't have what we hope to have, which is whole body supplement and whole body effect. But we saw that there is incredible potential for changing how the skin cells function so they actually start functioning like younger selves. And now we're actually also running a huge study where we'll be able to show that with many, many different metabolites. So stay tuned, that's progress. But even back then in early days of research, it was clear and it was clear from the user experience and the before and afters that we were getting. And so we pivoted. Okay. We said, you know what? Then it meant. It was meant to be a skincare. And we, for me, it was obviously actually more interesting. Like, although, you know, we made lemonade out of lemons, I was very excited about this lemonade because I always loved skincare. I always loved taking care of my skin. And I remember, you know, I had pretty kind of average story when I skin. I had acne when I was a teenager. I remember struggling with that. And then in my early 20s, I actually developed dermatitis. So I had a rash on the left side of my face and it would flare up constantly. The minute I'm just under a little bit of stress on my immune is a little bit more compromised immune system, I would just get this itchy, blotchy, red rash. And I have pictures of it. I. I remember I shared it once on Instagram and people were so surprised. They, like a lot of people, I think, just hadn't thought that they maybe like always had a good skin or something like that. And much to my surprise, like, really not connected wasn't the point of research, but our very first formulation, which is the care moisturizer, really helped it calm down. So this is not a medical advice if you have dermatitis. We do not have any medical claims around that. Really, surprisingly, it helped for my dermatitis. So I knew that there is something there. And it works so deeply on the cellular level. So. And then from that very first skill, we now grew the line that, as you know, even goes past direct to consumer. We also have professional products that are available for practitioners like yourselves. So we're very excited about it and I'm really, really excited. I feel like it's just best case scenario, it's one of those things that.

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah, I think it's the pivot, isn't it? And it's beautiful that you can pivot like that. And it happened to the most, two most beautiful people that I know. And I've watched you through your pregnancy now and become a palm and. And still you both work so hard and you're both glowing. So testament to the products and the lifestyle that you guys live. And even though there's a lot of work behind it, you know, the body is still able to be as healthy as it can be. And as we were talking off camera as well, is that it's hard being a mom. Yeah. Looking after yourself and still getting some form of sleep.

[Anastasia]

I know for sure. Actually, it's, it's really postpartum that I've experienced. For the first time when I was looking in the mirror, I felt like I aged years and it's been only months and I've suddenly have this dull, dry skin I had. It was so inflamed. I remember some of our best friends came to visit and we were walking with the baby and they captured photos which, you know, were beautiful overall, but I just couldn't ignore. I had three chins. Not even a double chin. It was like three chins and I was still skinny. It's just like there was so much inflammation in my face and in my neck. And I remember I rushed to do a hormonal panel to see that my thyroid is okay. I'm like, is it just, is it just, you know, am I just swollen? Is, is it just a little lymphatic fluid or am I like, know having issues? And sure enough, I was told it's too early to do hormonal paneling only for months. Postpartum, we can't really know much. Yeah, yeah, we can say much and, but yeah, I mean, I, I think. And also the, this idea of self care. I'm so guilty for not granting this to me much. I actually, I worked while I was pregnant till the day I delivered. Like, I just couldn't stop. I felt like our company is not set up to function with me being on maternity leave. Like, you know, me and myself, we really are half. Half. We just do have 50% of the business he's handling. I handled the other 50%. And of course there is some intersection. Of course we always consult each other, but. But I actually end up taking only all of the marketing. So everything that every single email, every single ad, every single piece of content ever representing Young Goose goes through me. And it was, I, I just knew that if I just, you know, take an early maternity leave or appropriate maternity leave while I was still pregnant, this whole branding, like it will not be consistent anymore. And there is, you know, a lot more. Like, I also handle daily operations. So I just, I, I felt like I can't let go. And I, I remember Amitabh was like really trying his best to, to make sure that I have shorter days or take some time off or I go get a massage. I got like one massage when I was pregnant. I remember because it was so special. They put you on the side and I have team J. And it always hurts me to get a massage when down because it puts an extra pressure in my jaw and Then suddenly it was like the best massage of my life. And I was like, I have to do it more often. Like never done it again. But then postpartum, that's when I was like, oh my God, I really can't work from empty cup. Like I just now really experience this sentence like severely on the slept so much cortisol adrenaline still from birth, lingering around always in a high alert thinking that the lion's gonna take my baby. And. And I really felt so much like I found so much comfort in doing skincare like our very own products. But I. And that's why now actually more than ever we have constant part of our messaging that this is me time, this is self care. I mean it was always there, but I've really now realized how much it helps. Like it actually can improve your well being more than just your appearance. If you, if instead of like rushing and just slapping the creams and going about your day, you actually take a moment, you maybe do some affirmation while you're applying your skincare. You just like and it's only a few minutes, but if you just do it while you're present and you make an intention and you really tell yourself that I matter, like this is time for myself, however much time you have. But you try to really enjoy it and be present, it makes world of difference so much.

[Jodi Duvall]

I resonate so much with that and I think so many mums do and it's a really hard thing to tell moms that you need to focus on yourself just for even those small little moments. I remember I was 30 when I had my, my second baby. And it was the only at that time where I again like you. I looked at myself and I'm like, I've aged 10 years after this. Not good. And I was like, wow, I need, I need all the help I can get. Like, let's go. There was a big motivation there as well, but I think it's, it is more than that. And that's what I love. And I have been, you know, two years, I think now almost on Young Goose. And it's, it's that ritual every morning. And now we get to provide the ritual for clients in clinic with facials with the youngest products. And it's just, it's the sensual and, and it's delicate. Delicatessen. It's just beautiful the way that the products go on and the way that you feel. And it's a morning and nighttime routine that you give to yourself. And, and, and again, the products are just so, so effective, you know, and as I saw you last year in Vegas and we would, we were, I had a facial there with Dara and I was trying some new products from you and you can see these things work instantly. And it's not, I'm not just saying that. And that's why I've never stuck with a product line for more than six months. You know, so it's a big thing to say that I suck and, and still feel the benefits day in, day out from the skin care. And so yeah, it's, I think it's essential in that self care component is because you don't often give that to yourself anywhere else. And I feel that's something that really. And I love about your messaging and it's, it's, it's essential. But I guess from, from that postpartum, but even beforehand, you know, I want to sort of touch on the cycles of a woman because I think this is really important and this is why I love to talk to you about off camera and many times that we've chatted about different cycles and how you can actually nourish different components of your cycle and even that postpartum area era or even pregnancy or with your skin care. So let's, let's pull apart that wherever you want to start.

[Anastasia]

Yeah, well, it's, it's, it's very interesting in this past conference that I was telling you about the Health of Translation Summit, I actually got to meet and chat with Alyssa Viti who wrote the book in my blog.

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah, I love her.

[Anastasia]

Yeah. And I was like, this book really changed the way I feel on my cycle because I've always had very painful periods. Just there would be at least one or two days when I would like, I would look white with a tint of green. I would be just really looking really terrible and feeling as well and just so much pain. And then a friend of mine actually told me about her book and it's so practical. There's so much application to it. She really tells you what to do, which is rare because a lot of the times an author may share like an overall idea, but then if you want to really get an advice, then buy my course or something like that. So she doesn't have that, which I really appreciated about her. So yeah, so that was the most practical book that I've ever gotten to really help me understand how my body functions around the cycle. I will say that prior to that book there was another book. I'm forgetting the name of the author, but the, the name is very catchy. It's called Moody Beaches. Yeah, it's. Is it. Have you read that one?

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Anastasia]

So it's incredible as well. And I read it years prior to. To Alisa's book and it doesn't have that much practical advice, but it was not a great. You just really understand that you were just. Yeah, you're four different women in a month. And I was so lucky I ended up. So it was actually Mithai's uncle who recommended that book, believe it or not. And we listened to it together when we were commuting to work, which I'm so lucky because you know, Mithai got to hear all of it and he got a better understanding why I might.

[Jodi Duvall]

Turn to a mansa.

[Anastasia]

A couple of days a week. Well, a month. Sorry. And so I'm super grateful first of all to women that made it their mission to share and educate and we all are better off, men and women, you know, so there is that. And in terms of aligning skincare with hormonal cycles, so you know, our hormones change throughout the month, you know, and our skin actually reacts to those shifts very much so. And at Young Goose we believe to in honoring these biological cycles because they offer valuable insights for optimizing our skin health. And I remember posting the very first post about how you can align your skincare regimen with your cycle like three years ago on social media and it blew up. And so grateful for our community. Everyone is so supportive. So all of the ladies that you know, teach women's health and the list would be very long but all of them were chiming in and, and just sharing and it really went viral. So I then realized that even though so many of us already know about our hormonal shifts and try to optimize when it comes to workout, when it comes to nutrition, but very few actually change the way they support their skin. And that's why in my opinion, that's why sometimes people can really not have the best skin all month long because the skin, as I was saying, changes a lot and you just need to maybe have a little bit more guidance which I'm happy to to share. But yeah, some of the parts of the month your skin will need more hydration. Sometimes it will be requiring to calm inflammation, wisdom repair. So as you go through phases, I can then just maybe share a little bit more when exactly that happens. But to me this is really like the essence of biohacking. You you just thinking about your internal biology and things, what you can do internal and external to modify it in the best way possible to support. Support yourself instead of just, you know, rolling with the punches.

[Jodi Duvall]

Absolutely. It's that empowerment again, isn't it? And that's why I also love authors like Alyssa in that when I read the book and I recommend it to clients all the time, is because it sort of highlights the superpowers of what we have. It's not a bad thing. We have all these incredible superpowers that we have all the way through the month, and we've just got to know how to utilize it. And same with our skincare and looking after the. The largest organ on the outside of our body. You know, we have all these incredible things that we can use and utilize, but it's actually just knowing the body better. We sort of. We forget that we actually have to know this intimate temple and we. We don't. We don't really take the time to know it very well. So. All right, let's. Let's step through then. Some cycle.

[Anastasia]

Yeah, for sure. And I will also say that there is some. There are some people that are very connected to their bodies and they really can decipher their body signals, and they may not even know all of the biology and physiology, and they sort of don't need to because they're just so in tune with their bodies, but the majority of people aren't. And that's why I think it's. It's really crucial to get as much information because you. You may. You then may going to start, you know, be able to hear your body more. And this is actually how it was for me with the cycle, you know, with this. Once I got through the book and I was like, oh, my God. Right? I feel this, I feel that, and it all aligns and it's. You know, it was there all along, but I didn't hear it that well because I was just like, go, go, go, go, go. Always. Well, how about I. Yeah.

[Jodi Duvall]

Follicular, maybe. Do you want to start in. In the fun?

[Anastasia]

Sure, sure. We can start with follicle. I usually start with menstrual just because it's like day one, but we can. We can do follicular.

[Jodi Duvall]

No, you can do that. I think we've got like the. The bleed and then we go into the fun.

[Anastasia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, when menstrual phase is. Which is. You know, it varies of people, but let's say on average from day one to five, on the first day of your period, all your hormones at all time low. So. So the production, the sebum production may be lower and without the help of estrogen for skin. It's really hard to stay firm and hydrated and retain that moisture. So your skin may appear dull, dry and more sensitive. Also, during this week, your body produces more prostaglandins and they tend to make the skin feel more tender and reactive, so especially when they're off balance, so they increase the pain sensitivity. So we'll talk more about, you know, what I recommend to do around that. But that's generally if I was to describe how our hormones change during menstrual phase and how the skin feels, then we go into your authority favorite follicular phase. So at the end of your period, estrogen levels start to rise again and this hormone stimulates collagen, elastin and hyaluronic acid production, thereby providing your skins with all that moisture, texture and glow integrity. So that, yeah, this is definitely our golden week for our skin and for the rest of the body. So then we get into ovulatory phase, as short as it is only two days and at ovulation, your estrogen remains elevated and there is also actually start of production of luteinizing hormone, which can mean oily skin and therefore need to be careful because if you don't balance that oil, there is potential for blemishes there. Um, then we go into luteal phase. So on the third week of your cycle, progesterone rises while estrogen levels start to fluctuate. So progesterone stimulates the sebum production, which causes our skin to swell. So you can see a lot more blackheads, whiteheads. That's exactly when we get the most potential for hormonal acne. And high levels of progesterone as well make your skin much more photosensitive. So you need to be really careful because you know, it's linked to secretion of melanin. So we don't want to get that extra. You might get extra freckles, but you might get a pulse of pigmentation. So just got to be wary of that.

[Jodi Duvall]

So that's good. I like all that and it's new information for me too, because there's some really big awarenesses around again, you know what you can be doing with the skin care. So I guess let's step into some sort of like key things that we need to be thinking about and maybe products that we can be applying to then counteract some of these things. So I really like that.

[Amitai]

Hey there. This is Amitai, co founder and CEO of Young Goose and host of the Biohacking beauty podcast I wanted to take a brief moment to share something really special with you, our dedicated listeners at Young Goose. We've always been about more than just skincare. We are about cellular care. We believe in not just addressing the signs, but truly diving into the very source of skin aging. The reality is, as time goes on, our skin undergoes damage and this damage accumulates gradually, leading to those signs of aging we all see and know very well. But what if we could hit the rewind button? What if we could delve deep, not into the layers of the skin, but into the life sustaining mechanisms of our skin cells? That's exactly what we're doing at Young Oops. We're pioneering a renaissance in skincare by employing principles from regenerative medicine. By rejuvenating and restoring the cellular functions, our products aim to rewind time, gifting your skin a youthful, vibrant glow. And for our biohacking beauty listeners, we have a special treat. Head over to Yongoos.com right now and use the code PODCAST10 to get 10% off your first purchase. Discover the magic of truly transformative skincare. And hey, because we value our returning customers customers just as much, use podcast five on your subsequent purchases to get 5% off. And the best part, that this discount can be combined with subscriptions in our already discounted systems. So why wait? Dive deep into the realm of regenerative skincare with Yungoos and let your skin. Thank you. Remember, it's not just, just skin care, it's cellular care. And now back to our conversation.

[Jodi Duvall]

We forget about that sort of key oblatory phase when we have, yes, you've got the luteinizing hormone, but then testosterone is rising as well. So you can also have some of that androgen phase of the sebum and that. So we don't sort of necessarily always assign that stage with having breakouts, but some women do and it can be very un, you know, it's unfortunate, but because it's normally that luteal phase that you normally see in a lot more of the breakout.

[Anastasia]

Yeah, but then, but then again, ovulatory phase is so brief, you know, so we join that glow and then right there between, you know, just in the matter of couple of days while all of that glow you had, all that glow from extra oil can result in blemishes, you know. So in terms of some of the skincare tips that I think can be pretty easy to, to follow and can be pretty helpful. So for the menstrual phase, I would, number one, I would say stay away from Painful procedures. And it's just like if you're familiar with, you know, Elizabeth's work and cycle thinking, she, she tells you, okay, this phase is good to ask promotion and this phase is not good. This phase is to be to look inward and this phase is to look outward. So very similar. I, I'm happy to share. Maybe like after the recording like a quick breakdown and then maybe you can have it for people in the show notes to even like maybe print and have you know, next to the mirror and refer to it. It's very brief but I think it's impactful. So yeah, if you know that you're about to get waxing microneedling, just say that it's not around your menstrual phase, which I think sometimes women can put one or two together from just their personal experiences, but still wor mentioning.

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah, pain definitely goes up. I learned that the hard way. I went in to get some waxing many, many, many years ago. Getting waxing around my like period time or just before and boy did it hurt more.

[Anastasia]

Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah.

[Anastasia]

So your skin is also incredibly dry during this phase, so it can benefit from rehydration with your heavier serum or moisturizer. If we're talking about Young's product, I would just point towards you three set which is your water based serum. It's very hydrating, it's based on hyaluronic acid. That's the vehicle that drives all of those wonderful actives that we have there, be it spermidine, be it NAD plus precursors. And then if you just really want to kind of like bathe in immediate hydration then bio barrier is amazing. That's your, that's our lipid soluble product and they can really help you maintain that needed hydration levels. Also if you are not using hyperbaric mask nightly, this is a good week to use it nightly. So if you like normally just use it when you're traveling or after some painful procedures. This is a week to spoil yourself and maybe a little bit more. So for follicular week, as I mentioned, this is our golden week. And I think that this is the time when our skin is most resilient and radiant due to raising estrogen. So it's a great time to exfoliate, regenerate, introduce actives so you can just you know, kind of go about your, your skincare and if there are products in your skincare regimen that a little bit more potent and you kind of like wary if your skin can take it. This is a good week Is also a good week to do those extra procedures, maybe like microneedling. This is a great week to do that. This is the week where I introduce n Polish personally because I have very sensitive skin and this is. I know when I need it and, and will benefit most because then we also go into a voluntary phase and it's just a great, great time to use it for me personally and I find it for a lot of our clients as well.

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah. Is that prep? It's the preparing as well, isn't it? It's like that knowing what's coming and preparing for that too. And I think in this world, in this day and age of like an immediate. And now it's not always thought of in that way. And same with general body health as well. So yeah, I really like this.

[Anastasia]

Yes. And I also think that like the very first time when I shared on social media, like how I just mix and match our facial serums to best accommodate the phases, some of the feedback was like, oh wow, I have to have like four different serums. And first of all, now that we've evolved our line a little bit, mind you, that was like three years ago. Luckily, with some of our newer creations, that Q3 set, it's so multifaceted and it can be used literally in every phase and can benefit it because of all that very special ingredients that work on the cellular level and just really adapt and adjust actually as you go. But yeah, sometimes you might have to have on hand something like bio barrier that you won't be using maybe every day, but. But sometimes your skin will be dry than normal and it's good to put it, like to use it then. And since again, you're not using it all the time, you actually end up using the same amount of product, if that makes sense.

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah.

[Anastasia]

But you just use it more wisely. So it's. And it's a lot like nutrition, you know, we have to switch it up a little bit to give our body what it needs the most. So it's very similar with skin. You're just giving it skin for skin nutrition.

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And like you say, it's not always necessary, so you're doing things when they're necessary and then you're benefiting your skin to look the best. Best all month long versus doing the same thing day in, day out and then wondering why it's not the best all month long.

[Anastasia]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. You get it. So, okay, so I think I stopped right before ovulation. So during ovulation, as we've talked Already about. We have very oily skin which can look very glowing, radiant. But it's a good idea to balance extra oil. So in our skincare line, Procure will be like the best serum to do it. It really is very lightweight, it balances oil and it actually has some of the ingredients such as like lilac extract that really helps prevent like it has antimicrobial function antibacterial. So really helps preventing this breakout that might arise and make sure that pores don't get clogged. And then we go into luteal phase. So that's the phase that I mentioned is much more prone to pigmentation. So just. I'm proponent of using sunscreen on the face, neck and chest. I know there is so much. There are different camps these days and I promise you I expose my body to sun. I believe in vitamin D, but I don't think you should do it for your highest state real estate, you know. So yeah, just be mindful that you can get much more sunspots and pigmentation during this especially also the longest phase that we have as women. So yeah, make sure you apply the sunscreen.

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah.

[Anastasia]

And in general, I agree. And in general anything anti inflammatory that you have in your regimen, that's when it goes to prevent the acne in your period. So again for us it can be procure. We have pretty much actually most of our skincare products literally are anti inflammatory because we formulate actually for mature skin and then the older you get, the thinner your skin, the more it's prone to rosacea and inflammation. So but if you, if you're listening to it and you're not using English products and you're not about to get the whole regimen, just know that this is the time to use the most anti inflammatory products that you have in your skincare regimen. And these are my tips.

[Jodi Duvall]

That is so good. Back to the sunscreen's a tricky one, isn't it? It's sort of, yeah. As you said there's, there's different camps but from, from a sun lover myself and I didn't wear sunscreen probably. Yeah, I should have, I should have been using it for a lot longer and, and I think again, young we don't feel like we know, we think we're invincible. And so then you get to the age like I am almost 40 this year and you look at your chest and you go, oh gosh, there's a lot of damage there. And you can't, you know, yes, you can probably do more for your face than you can for to undo some of the damage, but you can't really undo the chest as much as you wish. So I think for these small increments of usage of sunscreen on these areas, like you said, you're still getting the rest of your body as vitamin D, but you're protecting your assets. Like you said, your top state realty, it's like, yes, this is the one that shine into the world and that you're going to be worried about in future if it's sun damaged and pigmentated and, and more wrinkly than it necessarily needs to be. And yeah, here I am in Australia and it's, it's a harsh sun. We live in, you know, the sunburnt country, literally. So we have to be careful and there is damage to be had. So small little. It's prevention again. It's the prevention. So now I don't go out of the house without my bioshield and I, I, I love it. You know, and in front of the computers as well. We need it.

[Anastasia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In terms of bioshield special because like you said, it also protects from blue light emitted from our screen. It also has an ingredient called Lipochroman 6, which is the only antioxidant that doesn't only protect from free radicals of oxygen, but also free radicals of nitrogen, carbon. So that pollution and this day and age, we have pollution indoors, outdoors. So it really is helpful. And you know, I was just actually. So we live in West Palm Beach, Florida, which is also super sunny. We just have sun all year round. And I'm wearing my sunscreen, I'm wearing hats. Like, I have hats everywhere. Like, I've had a couple of hats in my car. I have hats by the door. Like, if I have anything in my wardrobe that's extra and multiples off and I feel like it's not a waste of money. It's hats because I just like, I don't want to be in a position that I found myself because sometimes you go out of the house and it's gloomy and it's like, and you know, you know, you still get the sun burned even when it's gray skies, but you're like, meh, you know, but then let's say when you, for us, the weather changes so quickly and then it's like scorching sun. Oh my God. If you are without hat, like, you know, it's just an extra layer of protection. But what I was saying is that we actually just were invited to a very cool event here in our West Palm Beach, Florida. It was called Global Passion Longevity Event. So there were amazing speakers there. There was Dr. Perry, Khan Davas. We spoke. There was like many very cool speaker blanking on like names of half of them. Again, I'm really bad with names. But, but there was a skin longevity panel and there was this woman, I'm not going to mention her name. And she was on and on and on about how she doesn't use sunscreen. And because if you look at native cultures, they have the least amount of skin cancer and they don't use sunscreen. And there is just so much to unpack there. And if there are listeners that may be in that camp, you know, I just want to say, like really briefly, I'm not here to educate, you know, for too long on that topic. But a, you know, the native cultures evolve differently and they have to do a different environment and nutrition and everything around them. You can't just say, oh, I'm going to be like Native American and only just keep sunscreen without having all the other just rituals that they have about their day and for generations. So you can't mimic their biology. We're all similar to a certain degree, but we also have differences. And then another thing that I want to point out, yes, there are studies that have come out and saying that using sunscreen does not necessarily protect you from melanoma. But that's not because that means, oh, you can wear a sunscreen and not have skin cancer. It's just because it's really hard to pinpoint everything that leads to melanoma. But if you are thinking that the only reason you want to skip sunscreen is skin cancer, yeah, maybe there is something to it and you can hold on to it, this, you know, argument, but there is absolutely no doubt that sun just degrades our skin. So if you, you know, if you want to maintain some kind of skin, good skin appearance and vitality, you absolutely need sunscreen because it's for sure you know, just dries up our skin inside and out. It's, it's, you know, pigmentation, dryness, loss of collagen, all of that. So, yeah, there is, you know, we, we got it on a very important. Right. But here I'm ready to close it. But it's just because I hear this more and more in our circles, in, you know, circles that have some authority and say things that can be misleading and misinform the general public.

[Jodi Duvall]

I think there's always more information to be had. And as with any scientific research, you can never control all of the variables. And that is my biggest argument for everything. It's like, well, how do you know what they were eating? How do you know what they were using? What climate were they in? What age were they? What did they use on their skin? You can't control all those variables. And we know for certain that the life that we live now is more fake, more fake light, more environmental toxins when that we can never compare ourselves to ever. And any ancient culture we are, are 100 different. We have, we have created this unnatural world for ourselves and so we, we can never have that comparison. And yes, the skin can be damaged, but also I, I went to get my skin checked recently and I was having a chat to the doctor and I'm lucky, I've got a nice olive skin so I'm, I'm relatively safe from genetic issues with melanoma. And she was talking to me, she's like, oh, you know, it's, it's really weird. You know, we think that, you know, the sun, it's just we, we always assume that the sun is the only one that gives us melanoma. But I had this lady in and she had melanoma in her vagina and I was like, oh wow. She's like. And she wasn't sunbaking so, you know, understand like where does this melanoma come? And so it was, it was this conversation. I'm like, yeah, so we know that it's an internal, external, but we also need that protection from the external. And it's not only the sunscreen that we need, it's the like you guys have created this bioshield so we need protection from the external environment conditions and that's also an important part. And so I think we sort of, we miss like you say, it's misinforming, miseducation. And we never see the full picture. We always just pull apart sections of it. And that's still a really small minded way of looking at a topic. We have to think broader. Yeah, so I totally agree with you. I think the rant's very important.

[Anastasia]

Okay. Okay. I'm glad we aligned and yeah, we dedicated some time to it. So hopefully people can have their very valuable reminders because it will serve them long term.

[Jodi Duvall]

I think so too. Absolutely. So I was going to ask you about one sort of skincare myth that you like to debunk. Maybe it was sunscreen, but maybe there's something else.

[Anastasia]

Okay, I can debunk all day, but there is one thing that I would like to maybe debunk. Right now that is very hot hot topic. It's radiofrequency micronasine. So just, just few days ago, I had a friend calling. She is in her late 40s and she wants to do facelift. You know, she had a very wild life for herself and now, you know, there are some damage accumulated on her skin and she just, she's one of those people that, you know, twitches on. Like she, if she can solve it with surgery, she will. And you know, no judgment here, but. So she went to a plastic surgeon and he told her, you were too young. Like, you know, looking at the way everything is, you're not the candidate for plastic surgery yet. You know, you're going to need to wait probably 10, 15 more years. Like, I'm not. Like she went to her top one and he's like, this is my honest opinion, so I don't want to operate any right now. Like, it's not necessary. And so she went to an institution and she right away told her, oh, the next best thing will be Morpheus 8. You know, that's going to tighten your skin, it's going to firm you up and you know what, in a way, so it's going to maybe even prevent you from needing surgery down the line. So this is my friend, this is not me, like reading it online or something. And it happens just like to everyone, everyone around us. And I'm here to say that there are just very few candidates for radiofrequency m microneedling. And the potential reward does not outweigh the risks. There are so many risks with this treatment. For one, it has already been shown and, and top plastic sur patients in the industry like Dr. Barrett or Dr. Cameron Chestnut, they're, they're operating on women that have done this treatment before. And so what they're finding out that fat deposition on the face is totally depleted. It's burnt. It's burnt. And once you remove, you need your fat in your face as much as possible. So once you deplete that, everything is actually becomes much more hollow. And also instead of creating like this treatment gained popularity because it's supposedly creating collagen. And they have data, but there is different kinds of collagen. There is this collagen that's bouncy when you're young and it's has like elasticity to it. And there is also scar tissue which actually like, is collagen. So yeah, if you run a collagen assay, it might show that you have more collagen, but there is totally different Quality different. This scar tissue, very thin, it's very frail. It's actually rigid. It is not your collagen that you want to make your skin look firm. And why people doing it? Because there is some immediate benefit of skin. For a short while, for just a few months, it actually swells up, up because there is so much skin trauma and inflammation. So it looks firmer, but then it actually goes down. And. And so what people are told is that you have to do courses like you have. This is a treatment course. You have to continue going back for those treatments. So again, I. I am just, I'm willing to debunk this myth every single day. There are so many. And I'm also like not lucky and happy that there are people they take it to online with testimonials. They say, hey, I've done it. Also, people with platforms like Jamie McGuire is one of them. She. She went on and she said, hey, I have done this treatment on my neck and chest. I actually ended up getting thyroid issues. And I hear that happens to more and more women because it's also the. They kind of go and target women with their insecurities, you know, like, oh, you have a turkey neck, you have a tech neck. Let's do the treatment there. It's going to affirm you. Yeah, firm up your neck because, you know, there is so little you can do for your neck and it just so problematic. So, yeah, you know, whatever you're considering, just keep radio frequency microneedling. Just microneedling is fine, but combined with radio frequency, that's where the issues.

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah, yeah. And you know, from. From what I've heard, it can be very painful as well. It can be quite.

[Anastasia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I heard it too. And actually that's separate from this discussion, but I just, I have pop up on my feed. There was one lady, young lady that is the worst, the saddest thing ever. She volunteered to be a model for this type of treatment in. In the esthetician's office where she works as a receptionist. So for free treatment, she volunteered to be a model. And the person doing it was not skilled and like kept it too long on her face. She has marks. Like, she literally has marks off and she just has it all over her face. And when I discovered this reel, it has like multiple millions of views, this reel. So I think, you know, it's going around. Anyway, by then it was already a couple of months into and. And she now her page became kind of like dedicated to journey of healing from this. And that's Not I, I want to, you know, say here, like, hey, I'm not saying that this is exactly the, the experience you're going to get. No, like she got malpractice, basically. But this is another thing. Like, is it worth to expose yourself to this type of risk? How do you know that the person that you will be doing it will do it? Correct. Because it's also, it's not like applying, you know, a cream that doesn't have very strong actives to cause you harm. You know, like sometimes you may do some procedure and the worst is going to happen. It's not going to work. No, this is not the case. Like, there is so much bad things that can happen if it goes wrong. Like why to risk it?

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah, absolutely. No, I think it's very important information because people are desperate. And that's the thing is that, that's what they're targeting. Like you said, they're targeting insecurities, the desperation. The women just want to look young. You know, there's so many different emotional components to this and also the media influences on this. And so that's another thing.

[Anastasia]

Yeah, yeah. And it's just like. Okay, I know you said one myth, but I just thought about. Oh, the second one.

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah, yeah, good.

[Anastasia]

The salmon sperm facials. Yes, Another one. Oh my God. Just because some influencer did it, you are going to do it now too. You're going to pull put the sperm of the dirtiest farmed fish salmon. Because you have no guarantees that this has been wild caught salmon. No, it's 100% farmed fish salmon full of all diseases, full of microplastics and you got to put it under your skin just because someone did it. It's crazy. And also again, now people take it to social media, but not everyone has exposure to this algorithm. I get so many people that are sharing testimonials of having lumps on their face, under their skin and having like noodle like things because you put something so foreign that you think will suddenly interact very well and your body's just going to accept it because it sounds fancy. OPD or an an. It's just like, you know, what we have in our, our bodies notes, not like it's foreign. And you know, yeah, maybe it worked for someone with someone's metabolism and the body kind of got rid of it and they got no complications and you know, placebo is still there. Maybe they convince themselves it looks better. But the, the majority of places that are just, you know, rolling out this treatment now to go with the trends and, and, and, and taking in people for this treatment. Majority of people don't have a good reaction to this treatment. And that's another one that I think is not worth the risk. Like just jumping on a trend for views. If you're sharing it on Instagram, it's really like you have to, like you were saying, the body is our temple, you know, like we just need to, you know, treat it so well. And I don't think that's, like, I don't think that's a good treatment to ourselves. Just jumping on this fairly risky treatment.

[Jodi Duvall]

Yeah. And most people don't have the knowledge or the education to actually pull apart the research and pull apart the actual, like they're just believing what they're seeing. And I think it's very naive to be able to do that, especially with the skin and the face that you have to then live with in future. You know, they're not having to live with that. So it is, it's risky. And I don't think people just don't, don't think that's, I think that's the thing. They just want results and they don't care how they're going to get it. And it can be on any topic. There's a lot of topics that we could go down in many areas of health. But yeah, so I love your passion, I love your passion for education and I think it's great to be educating and also having some of these solutions, but they're not always the solutions that we think they are. And same when I speak to clients, it's like, well, you think that I can give you this magic thing that will fix everything. Well, actually you need to work for it and you actually put the consistency in for it and you need to do the day in, day out routines and the care and the, you know, and that's when you get the changes and you get the changes far beyond what you would get from just one treatment because you've worked for it, you've put the effort in for it with the products that actually stand test of time. So in saying that, what are we excited for the future in skincare? Because I know you guys always have these amazing things that you're working on, but what's your most exciting thing that you feel is coming?

[Anastasia]

Well, I think what excites me is the, the way longevity scientists is merging with hormonal biofeedback and there is, you know, we see more and more of that and in Yanbus in particular, we are launching metabolomics testing kit so you'll be able, with just a tiny, tiny finger prick, actually see all of the metabolites and, and adjust your regimen and for the first time ever, it will be, will have skin applications. Applications for your skin health. So up until now there was only genetic testing. So you could only see what you have predispositions for, but they didn't take in account your current anything like, so it didn't look in, you know, basically it could be, you know, like the, the twins. So a lot of people now talking about, you know, how twins age differently with different environments. So yeah, up until this moment it was only genetic testing that had skin applications. So the twins that would take the study would have absolutely the same recommendations. Even though, you know, the twins by now could have been 40 and one maybe lived in polluted city and has, you know, all of those was exposed to all those environmental stressors that caused skin aging and someone else like this other twin maybe lived in a country and, and aged much better, but they would have the same recommend, which is crazy. So now you can actually, those, those two twins, hypothetical twins I'm talking about, could have gotten the metabolomic test and could see very, very different picture on the inside. They would have different levels of so many metabolites and they would get a picture of what's happening in their body right now and what they need to change. And again, it's for the first time ever, will have skin application. Yeah, I think that's, that's, that's really what we're super excited about. We worked on it for two years. It was like so much work in the background. And we finally have it ready. We will be only rolling it out this year to practitioners like yourself, so you can, so you can be the service provider and people can get the testing and you can further educate them on, you know, what it looks like, what it means and what they need to do to achieve goals that they're setting for themselves.

[Jodi Duvall]

This is very exciting. Oh, we can have metabolomics for health optimization of your body and your skin. I love it.

[Anastasia]

Exactly, exactly. For so long it was only for your body, but, you know, you couldn't, you wouldn't know. And we told this about this often. I'm telling myself that there are so many really great supplements that you can take for your body's health. But especially for women after perimenopause menopause, the body just doesn't allocate it for the, the, for, for the beauty organs for your hair, nails and skin. The body will Channel all the, all these wonderful vitamins which I. And supplements which I, you know, think that everyone should take. You know, be it nad plus, be it spermidine, whatever. There's like, long list of things that people can take to, to, you know, enhance their longevity and the way the body works. But just know that it's going to go to your vital organs, things like brain, liver. It's just not going to show up on your skin right away, which could be a good. Your internal health, but it's just, you know, if you want to benefit from those compounds right away in your skin, that's when we come in. You know, we won't help you overall health, but will help you look feel.

[Jodi Duvall]

Good inside and out.

[Anastasia]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Love it.

[Jodi Duvall]

It's incredible. Always excited about what you guys have got coming in the pipeline. So that's why I love catching up with you as well, because you're at the forefront of everything and I just absolutely adore that. So.

[Anastasia]

So.

[Jodi Duvall]

Oh, it's just been a pleasure and I know you have to get back to your family and your Bubba, and so I don't want to hold you up too long. So it's been an absolute pleasure to finally get you on the podcast. I've been annoying you?

[Anastasia]

No, no, you're great. Yes. I, I will say that I get. I get a bit intimidating, intimidated, recording along alone. You know, I've only recorded really alone once or twice before, and I usually do it with a mitai and I just, you know, it's. He's so natural in front of camera and I. It feels nice to know that, you know, if I suddenly forget my words or something happens to me from, you know, being a bit nervous to be on camera, he can then take it. But you are such a welcoming, like, I just feel like, you know, we're just chatting and it was, it was very calm for me, so I didn't get no cortisol. There is. No, no, no, it was, it was perfect.

[Jodi Duvall]

And you do it so naturally all the time. So you speak so well with people in front of you in all of your conferences and, and, you know, on the floor and, and your passion for it. So I want you to see. See you speaking more about all of this stuff. It's fabulous.

[Anastasia]

Oh, thank you, Jovi. Thank. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for, for inviting me.

[Jodi Duvall]

My pleasure.

[Anastasia]

Pleasure.

[Jodi Duvall]

So I will. All the links and everything. So your website, your Instagram, your podcast, I'll put all of that in the show notes so everyone can reach out Is there anywhere else that we need to know about where you guys are going to pop up somewhere?

[Anastasia]

No, we just. If, if people want to see us in person. I don't know when this podcast will air, but we are going to the biohacking conference in Austin in the end of May. I know that's where a lot of people are planning to be. So we will be there. And then if you want to meet us in person and chat in person. And then another great conference that just emerged last year is called Eudaimonia. It actually happens here in West Palm Beach, Florida. Huberman was the keynote speaker last year, so they always have. And Mark Hyman, so they have great speakers up last year or this year as well. So we will be there as well. And that's in October, I think. So that's in terms of like in person events. But yeah, digitally, you said it all. Website, Instagram. Our podcast called Bion Beauty is really a place where I now record much more and it's a great place to go to do like deep dives on skin health. So if you're. Every single episode, we are debunking something. We have whole series on injectables if you want to, you know, learn more. And there's, you know, much more than that.

[Jodi Duvall]

Incredible. Yeah, I definitely recommend everyone go and listen to. There's so much information on your podcast. So, yeah, it's. I listen to episodes when I see them come up and I need to know more about this topic and I'm like straight on there and listening about it because I, I need to know more about the skincare and to tell clients because I ask, I get asked it all the time. I'm like, hold that thought, I'll find out for you.

[Anastasia]

Well, I'm so, so happy to hear that. It's a resource for you because you're so knowledgeable. So if you find value in it, I'm sure somebody else can too.

[Jodi Duvall]

Thank you. No, absolutely. Thank you so much for your time. Anastasia.

[Anastasia]

Yay. Yeah, you said it correctly. Thank you. Thank you.

[Jodi Duvall]

I'll be in the US in October, so maybe I might bump into you guys somewhere. So I'm going to hopefully bring the fan with me this year because it will be my 40th, like sort of half celebration, so it'll be fun.

[Anastasia]

Well, I would love to celebrate with you, so I hope that we will make it happen.

[Jodi Duvall]

I will let you know. I'll. I'll message you.

[Anastasia]

Okay.

[Jodi Duvall]

Thank you so much. Have a beautiful day and I will speak to you very soon.

[Anastasia]

Okay. Bye. Bye.

[Jodi Duvall]

Bye. It.