← Black People Love Paramore
Black People Love Paramore
hemlocke springs interview
00:47:13
Join us for a conversation with host Sequoia Holmes and hemlocke springs! The indie-pop artist behind the viral hit “girlfriend,” known for standout vocals, offbeat lyrics, and a fresh alt-pop sound. We get to know Hemlocke and talk about music, touring, navigating the industry as a Black woman, and favorite Paramore music!!
Loading summary
Transcript443 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hey, y'. All. Today is a very special episode where I interview Hemlock Spring. She is an amazing pop star. Love her down. She has a tour coming up. She's going on tour starting May 15th. You should definitely grab tickets to that tour. It's going to be fantastic. This interview was so fun. She is so lively, so personable, so easy to talk to. I know you're not used to episodes dropping this soon. You know, like, we just had an episode come out last week. Usually this is an off week, but just wanted to make sure that we get this episode out in time to support Hemlock's tour. So, yeah, grab tickets. Enjoy the episode. Bye, all. I'm so excited. For this week's episode, we have Hemlock SP Springs. I love her new album, Apple Tree under the Sea. My favorite song is. I'm gonna sing it. You tell me what. You tell me what the favorite song is. There's a time There's a time and a place and a place When I thought I knew but now I know I can't be the girl I used to love Even though I thought I could all right, I'll save. I'll save you there, Hemlock. How was that?
- [01:30]
B
Who's gonna 10 out of 10?
- [01:32]
A
Oh, thank you so much. And if you think that that was a 10 out of 10, rate me 5 stars on Apple podcast and Spotify.
- [01:40]
B
You should be a singer.
- [01:42]
A
Thank you, Hemlock Springs. Welcome to Black People. Love Paramore.
- [01:49]
B
I love Paramore. Where's the camera? I love Paramore.
- [01:51]
A
Oh, you know what? Then let's hear more question then, because I'm about to start one place, but we're gonna start with the Paramore question then.
- [01:57]
B
Hey, wait, really?
- [01:58]
A
Yes. Do you have your favorite Paramore song?
- [02:01]
B
Okay. Okay. So I honestly Decode, which I know was on, like, the Twilight soundtrack. I didn't even watch Twilight. I just listened. I've never seen Twilight before.
- [02:14]
A
I mean, to be fair, it's something that you would have had to watch when you were of age to watch it. If you watch it as an adult now, it's like, that's kind of bad.
- [02:22]
B
Damn. That's why I wish I watched it, because people were. I wish I was involved in such a community, you know? But now I missed my chance.
- [02:31]
A
That's okay. You got it through Decode.
- [02:33]
B
That's so true. Oh, my. That's such a good song. Oh, my gosh. Yes. But I don't think that, like, they've, like, like or like, they've sung it in a while.
- [02:42]
A
Yeah, she doesn't really. She doesn't really decode too often. Haley's not really. Yeah, she's not really giving decode. She's in her solo bag right now. She's like, I have stuff. Yeah, me too. Let me find out. I can get tickets to the new one. In the spirit of the podcast, we. What is an interest that you have that folks might be surprised that you have?
- [03:03]
B
Okay, so I. It's a very recent interest. Okay, so I've been really interested in Mr. Pibs. Do you know Mr. Pibs?
- [03:12]
A
Is that. Are you talking about the soda brand?
- [03:14]
B
Yes, I did. I did not know what that was.
- [03:18]
A
Wow.
- [03:18]
B
Okay, I was at my. I was just at a wedding and one of my good friends, her fiance, was really into Mr. Pibbs, and he was explaining to me, like, all those like, oh, like Dr. Pepper. But like, Dr. Pepper left. And so it's like Mr. Pibbs. And I'm like, what are you talking about? So I was fully like, what is this? Mr. Pibs? Let me try this. Mr. Pibs. Very prepared to hate it. Very prepared to be like, you are not comparing this to Dr. Pepper. Okay, please get this out of my face. And so. But I was like, let me, like, give it a try. So I like, I got it and then I tried it, and I'm irritated because I like it. Oh, I know, I know, I know. I'm like, I. I love it. And so now I'm gonna be like, at every restaura. Do you have Mr. Pibs?
- [04:04]
A
Wow. It's Mr. Pibs, not Dr. Pibs, right?
- [04:06]
B
Yeah, Mr. Pibs.
- [04:07]
A
So what happened to Dr. Pepper?
- [04:08]
B
Well, I think. Okay, so from what I. From what I know.
- [04:13]
A
Yeah.
- [04:13]
B
Is that Dr. Pepper was part of Coca Cola.
- [04:16]
A
Yes.
- [04:16]
B
And then Dr. Pepper is now it's like as of 2025 or 2024. I don't know. It's now it's own, like, independent thing.
- [04:22]
A
Oh.
- [04:22]
B
And so now it's like, it's not going through Coca Cola to, like, be like, distributed anymore. Okay. So now it's like, well, they don't have Dr. Pepper. Like, what is.
- [04:31]
A
So they have Mr. Pip and did you like it better than Dr. Pepper?
- [04:35]
B
Don't ask me. Wow.
- [04:36]
A
You liked it better than Dr. Pepper. Not.
- [04:38]
B
You're cheating.
- [04:40]
A
That's crazy.
- [04:41]
B
I refuse to turn my back. Dr. Pepper has been there for me through thick and thin. I refuse to turn my back on him.
- [04:48]
A
But can I ask your take on root beer? You hate root beer.
- [04:54]
B
I hate root beer. Do you? Do you like root beer?
- [04:56]
A
I'm A root beer girl. Like, I'm a real girl down. Me and Dr. Pepper, we don't really get along like that. No, I feel like it's really one or the other. Like it's really one or the other.
- [05:07]
B
I really am putting a schism between
- [05:08]
A
us before we can even form a relationship.
- [05:10]
B
I'm so sorry.
- [05:11]
A
Yeah, no, I'm like, wow. I thought people would think that it would be, like, more similar because they're such similar drinks, but they are different. You know, they're. They're different beverages.
- [05:22]
B
They're different. But I respect. I am not going to get your. Yum.
- [05:25]
A
Thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. You get me.
- [05:27]
B
You just get me a little bit.
- [05:30]
A
Another question. Did you ever have an emo phase? And if so, is it a favorite phase or is it a lifestyle?
- [05:37]
B
Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. I think that. Yes. Okay, to answer. Yes, I had an email phase, but. And everybody has to have it. I don't really trust you if you haven't had an email phase. You know what I mean?
- [05:53]
A
I agree.
- [05:53]
B
Yeah. But, like, I feel like. Unfortunately, I do feel like it's. I feel like it's a phase, but I feel like there's multiple phases throughout the life.
- [06:02]
A
Okay.
- [06:03]
B
Because you're never making it out of life alive. And sometimes that just gets to you.
- [06:07]
A
You're never making it out of life alive is such a bar.
- [06:10]
B
Write that down.
- [06:11]
A
I was going to say you actually got to write that one down because that smacked. That did a lot for me.
- [06:17]
B
And so I think I go through multiple phases of, like, I don't. I don't know if it's a lifestyle. I think for some people it's a lifestyle. But I think for me, it's kind of like, okay, I'm going. I'm in it.
- [06:29]
A
Okay, okay.
- [06:30]
B
Okay. And I'm in it. It'll just continue happening. Well, but maybe that is a lifestyle. You know what I mean? It depends on your definition.
- [06:37]
A
A cyclical emo lifestyle. Sometimes we're emo, sometimes we're not. Yeah, sometimes we're in it, sometimes we're not. Sometimes we're depressed, sometimes we're happy. You know what I mean? That's actually what it gives.
- [06:49]
B
Like, how was your emo phase?
- [06:50]
A
Oh, my emo phase. I do think that it's a lifestyle.
- [06:54]
B
Really. I get that.
- [06:55]
A
I do think it's a lifestyle, but I. I don't have to, like, wear it as much as I used to. You know what I mean? I used to do the all black, all the time and, like, the black. Figuring out polish. It was really serious to me, and now it's just, like, less serious now. It just is in me. It's not on me.
- [07:10]
B
I get, you know.
- [07:11]
A
You know what I mean?
- [07:12]
B
You're kind of referencing it, though, with the black teeth.
- [07:14]
A
It's always just a little bit, you know, it's always gonna give just a little bit something light, but nothing too crazy.
- [07:19]
B
I feel that.
- [07:20]
A
Also, congratulations on the success of your debut album, the Tree under the Sea. I love it so bad. It is so, so good. I actually can't believe it. Thank you. It's shocking. Your tour starting next month in May.
- [07:34]
B
Yeah.
- [07:34]
A
That's very cool. Very incredible. It's hard. How do you prepare? What are you doing, like, when you're
- [07:41]
B
about to go on tour?
- [07:41]
A
What's the vibe?
- [07:42]
B
I. Oh, oh, oh. It's. It's. It's chaotic. It's scattered brain.
- [07:47]
A
I can imagine.
- [07:48]
B
Oh, Sammy's not listening to me. Sorry.
- [07:51]
A
They're preparing for the tour. Sammy's deep in preparing for the tour right now.
- [07:55]
B
It's. It's. I'm all over the place at the moment, and I feel like it's hard. I was like, I feel like. It's almost hard to check in with myself emotionally sometimes, and so not in, like a. I feel like I say that, but I don't mean it in a pejorative way. It's just like. Like, okay, I'm just gonna have to make it through until I'm on the van and I'm literally going to the next city. To the next city. But I've been in the gym for so long, and if anybody knows me, the gym and me are not friends. We are not. No amigas. No, no, no. Yeah.
- [08:27]
A
Stop. But your energy is so high when you're on stage. Like, it very much gives the gym and you are friends. It gives aerobic.
- [08:32]
B
Ah, thank. I'm glad the facade is holding up so it holds.
- [08:37]
A
Babe, you tricking me.
- [08:40]
B
I. I hate the gym. And I've been in the gym for so, like, literally, like, half of my day is spent there just, like, trying to, like. I don't know. I'm just trying to find, like, my. How do I move and stuff? And so I'm literally. I'm playing songs. I'm. Sing along. Like, do. I, David, burn it? Like, do I Beyonce it? I, David, burn it. I don't Beyonce it. Because I. I, Beyonce. That's. That's crazy. Like, in the.
- [09:04]
A
You know what? It's not even fair to like, hold any of us to that standard. Like, that's not a, that's not.
- [09:10]
B
Yeah, same with, like, but staying with, like, David Byrne, like, he's, like, just really good at, like, just leaning into the weirdness of it all. And I'm like, I hope one day that I can just kind of have a mix of both, if that makes sense. Sense. It just, like, I can bust the choreography but also make it weird and stuff like that.
- [09:28]
A
I hope that for myself as well.
- [09:30]
B
Really?
- [09:30]
A
Yeah. No, you know what? As a black girl, for me personally, who, like, I can't dance, I've always found it, like, kind of embarrassing. Like, the expectations that people have of you as a black woman is like, oh, can you, like, do your, Do a dance?
- [09:47]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [09:47]
A
And I can't.
- [09:49]
B
Yeah, no, you know, I feel that. No, I'm like, I, like, if I, I, I can learn, but it's not like, I don't know, like, sometimes it's not really second nature for me. I just, I can just like, be like, oh, yeah, I can do this move, you know, if I really need to do this move. But it's not like imma just bust it down.
- [10:11]
A
You know what I mean? I don't have that.
- [10:13]
B
I don't.
- [10:13]
A
I just don't have that. And when I watch you on stage, you are so free and your movements feel so intuitive.
- [10:20]
B
Thank you.
- [10:20]
A
And it makes me feel humanized as, like, that's just how I want. What I mean, like, I just want to move. Like, I'm not trying to do a Beyonce, like, full eight count, although I wish I could. I know, and if I could, I would, but I can't. I just want to be able to move freely, and I feel like that's something that historically has been kind of reserved for white women.
- [10:39]
B
Yeah.
- [10:39]
A
Like, you know, like, this move here.
- [10:41]
B
Yeah. I was like, I just want to
- [10:42]
A
do this is like, there. You know what I mean? Like, I really just want to put
- [10:47]
B
my hands up on my head. I'm doing this. That's all I want to do. No, exactly. And I, I, I'm, I'm so glad. I hope that I can, like, serve that. For serving.
- [10:58]
A
You're serving. Absolutely.
- [10:59]
B
Thank you.
- [11:00]
A
Also, publications and outlets have described your aesthetic as, quote, awkward black girl. Do you identify with that?
- [11:08]
B
You know, at a certain. I was like, in the beginning of my career, I think I did, but I think I did because I'm like, oh, I have to, you know, to get myself in a position where, if that's what people will run with to get me out there and my name out there, then I'll run with it. But I think now I'm just like.
- [11:29]
A
You know, I get that.
- [11:32]
B
Like, I don't know if I identify with it as much as. As much as I did before. Even before. Like, I was just like, I'm doing it for just getting hemlock out there. And now I'm just like, no, I. Not. Not really talking to you.
- [11:46]
A
It's not like, you don't give. Awkward. Like, yeah, you're not awkward. So when I read that, I was like, I don't know.
- [11:53]
B
I don't know what you mean. I think it's just, like. I don't know. It can almost be a box in a way. It probably is. And I'm just using the word almost to just. I don't know. I don't know. I just say a lot of stuff. Thank you. But I feel like it's almost boxy now, and I'm just like. I don't. I'm just trying to live, you know,
- [12:18]
A
it's really just existing as Hemlock.
- [12:20]
B
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm like. I'm sure everybody has their awkward moments, so I think, like, holistically, like, I'm just a girl. Just, like, getting. Getting out there, being the girl.
- [12:33]
A
Matter of fact, being the girl, actually.
- [12:35]
B
I love that.
- [12:36]
A
Yeah. She be the girl, actually. Yes. Which is my favorite song from the album. Oh, my God, it's so good. That and Moses, those are my two favorites. What's your favorite from the album?
- [12:48]
B
Damn. I feel like. I feel like it is. I. I think those two are. Those two are your favorites, too, but I think that Moses really just, like, Right. And then be the girl. Also. It was so hard to finish, but, like, once we got there, I'm like, I want to cry, like, a little bit. Like, I love this comative energy and stuff. And, like, I feel like it's like. I don't know, like, the trailer rolls and, like, the credits are rolling and it's playing. I'm just.
- [13:18]
A
That's exactly what it is.
- [13:19]
B
Really.
- [13:20]
A
That is exactly what it. I saw your TikTok of the demo, and it had, like, 18 different key changes.
- [13:26]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [13:27]
A
I felt robbed, really. I said, I want all 18 of those key changes, and I want them today. I want an alternate version with all 18, because that key change does something for my spirit really so bad. Like, oh, it's so cathartic. I love it. Oh, my God, I love it so much.
- [13:46]
B
It was crazy.
- [13:48]
A
And then when we get to Moses, Moses has this like, almost in sync, ish element. Yeah, to me, you know, and I like, I love it. Are there any producers that inspire you? I know you produce your own music, you make all of your own demos.
- [14:03]
B
Yeah.
- [14:04]
A
Are there any producers that.
- [14:06]
B
I think, like, honestly, I, I think that I, I, I think that it's only now I'm starting to be like, oh, this producer produced some of my favorite songs.
- [14:17]
A
Just starting to realize that. I get that, I get that.
- [14:20]
B
And I feel like I've just been, I think I just listen to a lot of, like, I, I know I reference a lot of 80s music now, but, but I think I do. And now I'm looking and being like, who did this? Like, who looked? And so now I'm still figuring out, like, who was it that's behind like some of my favorite things that I didn't know. And I think like now is, it's so, it's awesome because I feel like producers are maybe I'm, maybe I'm like over citing it, but I feel like producers are getting more of like a, oh, this person is behind this.
- [14:51]
A
Yeah.
- [14:52]
B
And like, it's more like being like, who's, like, who are. Let's look at the credits here. And I'm like, wait, this is awesome. I need to do that with some of my favorite stuff. And I honestly, I'm going to be honest, I haven't really. And so, no, only just now. So I feel like I will have an answer to that question quite literally, like in the Uber. Just like, let's see. I like this song 100%.
- [15:11]
A
And this person produced it. And this person produced it. Based on your music, I feel like you should check out Max Martin, the
- [15:17]
B
Swedish literally responsible for, quite literally, I
- [15:21]
A
promise you, everything, everything has touched. Sincerely, a Max Martin Hemlock collab would send me to my grave. My heart couldn't take it. I actually don't know if I could do all that. Also, I've seen outlets describe you as whimsical. How do you feel about that one?
- [15:42]
B
I think I'm, I'm leaning into it, but at first I feel like, but I, I fear I'm leaning into it also because I'm like, if it's what gets my table.
- [15:56]
A
Yeah, whatever, Whatever you want to call me. Sure, sure.
- [15:58]
B
But I'm like, I don't think I'm, I, I, I think I, I think I might, but no, you know, like, you know, like, like, have you ever listened to like other people describe you and you're just like, I guess, yes. But I, I Think now I see it more. Like, I, I see how I can kind of like, I, I guess by aesthetics, maybe, maybe even talking wise. I don't know. I guess I see it.
- [16:22]
A
But how do you feel on the inside? Like, you. What words would you use?
- [16:28]
B
I think I might, like, I feel. I think. I think I say this a lot. I feel like I'm pretty boring, like, compared to other, like, other people who I know who are like. I don't know, like, I can't even name names. I'm just like, oh. Like, they just have. So, so they're so interesting. And I feel like I'm like, I don't know. I feel. I don't think I, I feel like I'm still trying to find myself and find, like, my interest. Interesting point. But maybe I. Maybe I, I have it. I don't know. But, yeah, I, I, I, I. So I guess I see it.
- [17:03]
A
Yeah.
- [17:03]
B
But I'm like, yeah, okay.
- [17:05]
A
You know what? I think you're really interesting.
- [17:07]
B
Really?
- [17:07]
A
Yeah. I think you are really interesting.
- [17:09]
B
Oh, my gosh.
- [17:10]
A
Oh, my God. Thank you. I know you went to Spelman. That's one of the interesting things about you. You went to Spelman. I have never met a Spellman woman who did not immediately tell me that she went to Spelman.
- [17:19]
B
Really?
- [17:19]
A
Yes. There's this sort of, like, Internet debate about the value of going to an hbcu.
- [17:25]
B
Yeah.
- [17:25]
A
How was your experience as Spelman impacted your life post graduation?
- [17:29]
B
Yeah, I was like, it's interesting because I feel like I had a great experience, but I think that was because, like, I was able to quickly find my group of people and stuff. And I will say, like, at. I. I will say, wait, I don't want to not. I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to say any love, Spellman, and I'm not trying to say anything about the institution. But I think that. I think that if you do, and I'm sure it's the same for other colleges as well, if you do not find your group of people, it can be hard. And I do. I have come across, like, how they say, like, forums about people talking about their Spelman experience and how it, like, could come off. Like, how do I say? There's, like, maybe, like, a certain. A certain image that, like, people associate with being a Spelmanite. And I, I, I get it completely. I was just really lucky to find people who had the same interests as me. And, like, Like, I don't know. Like, just, like, I was. I was just really lucky to find My group. So I feel like I had a great experience there and like. But I haven't been back there since I was kicked out because of COVID
- [18:39]
A
Oh, kicked out because of COVID I said because you were. What? I didn't see that. I didn't see that during my research. Okay?
- [18:49]
B
I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything.
- [18:51]
A
I know you got a master's degree, so, like. What are you talking about? You were kicked out of your undergrad, okay, because of COVID you could not continue on the campus.
- [18:59]
B
Yeah.
- [18:59]
A
So did. You didn't move online?
- [19:01]
B
Yeah, I moved online. Now. That was horrible. I know, but online learning was not fun. It was not fun, but I think. But I feel like I was lucky because it was my senior year and why the plans. I know, right? Right. I did get lucky with that. Yeah, lucky with that one. Well, I planned those like, oh, okay. I'm gonna take these easy classes my senior year so I can party, you know? No, no, no.
- [19:22]
A
Wasn't no partying. You didn't get no party.
- [19:23]
B
Not in my parents house. Wow.
- [19:26]
A
Definitely wasn't getting no partying in at the par. I totally get that.
- [19:31]
B
So that's it.
- [19:32]
A
I know in high school you sang in the chorus.
- [19:35]
B
Yeah, I sing. Yeah.
- [19:37]
A
What was your favorite song to sing?
- [19:38]
B
Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. See, I can't remember any. See, Okay, I have two things, okay, So I don't remember what I sang in high school.
- [19:51]
A
I'm going to.
- [19:52]
B
But I remember watching this movie. I forgot the movie. I think it's French or something. I don't know. But I remember like the. The main kid. I had like a slight crush on the main kid because, like, he was so beautiful. I was like, God damn. But French voice, I. Yeah, I mean, not anymore, but like.
- [20:10]
A
Oh,
- [20:13]
B
but yeah, yeah, sorry.
- [20:15]
A
French voice.
- [20:20]
B
I mean, like. But like he was a kid. Like, I'm like, oh, sure, sure, we know.
- [20:25]
A
Yeah, very much.
- [20:27]
B
But like, I was a kid back then too, so I was. It was. It was inappropriate anyway, over explaining anyway, there was like this like Beyonce covered. Was so beautiful. And I remember that from high school. We did not cover that song. But I wanted to do it. But what I do remember is a song that we did in middle school. And I remember there was this dude. Oh, he had such a beautiful voice. Damn, what is his name? Why am I forgetting his name? I feel like it started with a D, but. But it was a song called Bonsiaba and it was like, And it was just. So.
- [21:08]
A
This is Polynesian.
- [21:10]
B
I don't.
- [21:11]
A
It's kind of giving. Yeah, it had a lilo and sich vibe.
- [21:14]
B
Really?
- [21:14]
A
Yeah. What you. What you were. Yeah, it gave a little lilo and stitch for a sec. Okay.
- [21:18]
B
Period.
- [21:19]
A
Sounds like Polynesian type songs, period.
- [21:21]
B
It was so, so fun to learn and stuff. So that's why I remember.
- [21:25]
A
Okay, that's fair. That's. My memory is none really, so.
- [21:29]
B
No. And it happens, to be fair, I
- [21:31]
A
don't have any hemlock springs being stylized. All lowercase.
- [21:36]
B
Yeah.
- [21:36]
A
Kind of reminds me of bell hooks. Why did you choose to go the lowercase route?
- [21:40]
B
Yeah, no, I'm like, I. I think that I. I take myself really seriously, and I don't want to because I'm like, again, like, we're not making it out alive here. So I'm like, I need to. I, like, need to. And I think sometimes I'm like, I need to kind of. Of, like, enjoy what I'm doing, and I need to chill and stuff. And so I feel like the lowercase almost, like, helps me be like, it's not that serious. Like, this is just. It's like. It's just a vibe. It's just like. It was like, it's just, have fun. And that's what I feel whenever I look at my lowercase name as opposed to when it's uppercase, and I'm like, oh, I am. I'm artiste. It does feel more serious than uppercase.
- [22:21]
A
I had never thought about that. But, yeah, I've noticed sometimes in interviews, and I think you did in this interview one time, you refer to hemlock in third person, kind of distinct from Naomi.
- [22:55]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [22:56]
A
Can you tell me the difference between the two folks? Jokes, if there is one?
- [23:00]
B
I think that maybe hemlock is just the more is a whimsical version of me. I get you, but I think that I was like, I don't. I think we are, like, both. What's it called? Like, two sides of the same coin.
- [23:19]
A
Gotcha.
- [23:19]
B
And that's all I can say for mysterious purposes.
- [23:22]
A
Oh, come on. Mysterious Scorpio purposes? We love a little bit of mystery.
- [23:27]
B
Hell, yeah.
- [23:27]
A
Since we're talking about astrology, based on your age stage, you've just entered your Saturn return.
- [23:32]
B
I know.
- [23:33]
A
Do you know how's it going? How are you feeling, girl? You about to go on tour. You're popping. Is it not feeling. It's not feeling that.
- [23:42]
B
I think, like, I think I am feeling it. Wait, do you. Do you know, like, what it all Entails. Like, have you been through this?
- [23:51]
A
I just finished it. When you entered, I ended.
- [23:53]
B
Wait. No. How was your Saturn return?
- [23:55]
A
My Saturn return was good. Overall.
- [23:59]
B
Okay.
- [24:00]
A
Okay. During that time, I got engaged.
- [24:03]
B
Yeah.
- [24:03]
A
I got and lost my dream job. There were just like, lots going on. It's like a very hectic, Just kind of like figuring out exactly who you are. Being rooted in yourself.
- [24:12]
B
Yeah.
- [24:12]
A
But not without pain.
- [24:13]
B
Yep.
- [24:14]
A
You know what I mean? Yeah. So if it's feeling painful right now, it certainly is for a reason. And you will come out way stronger and way better on the other side.
- [24:21]
B
I don't want to be strong though.
- [24:24]
A
She said, who? And who asked for that? And who said that?
- [24:27]
B
Can I be that damsel in this dress?
- [24:33]
A
Better. You'll come out a better version of yourself.
- [24:35]
B
That's true. Two things I think I've recognized about myself is that one, I forgot the first thing. But the second thing is that. But the second thing is that I feel like there are like, certain, like, traits that I, I'm like, oh, I'm trying to fight myself over, but I feel like I just need to let it be if it's not. Not. Like, for example, I remember somebody was telling me, like, oh, I have anxiety and stuff, but their anxiety makes them show up earlier to places like, they're like, more prepared and stuff. So I'm like, not saying that what you call, like, having anxiety sucks, definitely. But I'm like, there are certain things, like, there are certain traits I've realized of mine that I'm like, oh, well, I have this, but it makes me do this and it gets me prepared and stuff. Stuff. Whereas there is like, my anxiety makes me smile. It makes me like, wanna go in a cave. And so I'm like, I should work on that if that makes sense. And so I'm, I'm recognizing that. I, I don't know. Like, I, I was like, I, I. Yeah. Like, there are things that I need to better about myself, but also like, I can kind of like pick and choose what. Especially if it's not go. Or if, if it's kind of preparing me. I feel like I can pick and choose. Like, okay, these are the, these traits. Like, I know, like, if I can get them to like a lesser severity, that'll be awesome. But right now it's okay because I am prepared. Like, I can be prepared to like, take on this next task.
- [26:05]
A
Yes.
- [26:05]
B
Whereas these traits literally leave me down ditch.
- [26:08]
A
Like, okay, so you can pick which ones you prioritize. Guys actually working on which ones have a Stronger impact.
- [26:16]
B
Yeah.
- [26:17]
A
Negatively. And that you want to.
- [26:18]
B
Wow, you're so good at words.
- [26:20]
A
No, you're. Excuse me. I know the songwriter did not just tell me. Don't get it. The songwriter of a generation. You guys will never. I will never not say that out loud. I'm putting that in my Instagram bio. Thank you very much. Can you tell me your dream collaboration?
- [26:37]
B
Okay. I have been thinking about this, because I've gotten it a lot, and sometimes I say something, somebody, and then I'm like, nah. Okay,
- [26:47]
A
take that back. Don't want to collab with you.
- [26:49]
B
Thank you. And then as of recent, I've been like, you know what? Like, I'm just trying to focus. I've been copping out. Like, I'm like, I'm just trying to focus on myself. Like, whatever. No, I. I would, like. I think that the three that I have in mind, that I would really want to. First, I would. I would drop it all for Kate Bush. Like, I, Like, I would. I would drop it all.
- [27:13]
A
Absolutely.
- [27:14]
B
I would be like, yeah, no, I'm doing it. I don't need to listen. Like, just get me to the studio.
- [27:18]
A
Whatever you need.
- [27:18]
B
Yeah, right. Whatever you need. I'm there. I got this. Let's see. And I really like Tyler, the creator. Oh, yeah.
- [27:29]
A
I love Tyler.
- [27:30]
B
Bad creator. And who else am I? Who else is there? Oh, and I feel like, do.
- [27:39]
A
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [27:40]
B
It's like, really would be really cool.
- [27:41]
A
Okay. Okay. Yeah, no, that's. That's great.
- [27:44]
B
That's great.
- [27:44]
A
Yeah, I love that. I could definitely see all of those happening.
- [27:47]
B
Thank you.
- [27:48]
A
Let's manifest. I'm manifesting it right now, matter of fact, for the music industry, for Hemlock, for Sequoia. That is what we would like to see happen. Thank you very much.
- [27:56]
B
Thank you.
- [27:57]
A
I also saw that you. I think it was Pitchfork. I think you're doing an interview with Pitchfork.
- [28:01]
B
Yeah.
- [28:02]
A
And it was, like, your perfect 10 album, and you said Big Fish Theory by Vince Staples.
- [28:09]
B
I love that.
- [28:11]
A
Oh, Hemlock knows Ball. Like Hemlock. Yeah.
- [28:16]
B
It was the first album I saved on Spotify. I love that album so much. Like, I know. It's like, I. I know, like, it definitely, like, got, like, its flowers. Because I feel like I, like. I don't know. I try to come across people who. Who, like, listen to the same things that I do, and that's like. Like, everybody who, like, I feel like has listened to that album has been like, that is such a great album. But I'm like, damn, that's such A great.
- [28:41]
A
I know. You know who else has talked about it is Tyler, the creator.
- [28:45]
B
Really?
- [28:46]
A
Yeah, he. He and Vince are friends. And when Big Fish Theory came out, Tyler was like, you're on the pre. Precipice of something big. Like, your next thing is going to be like, yeah, it's gonna blow you up.
- [28:58]
B
Yeah, it was. No.
- [29:01]
A
Maybe the three of us needs a collab. Maybe I need to be on it with you guys. What would I do? I don't know. But I would do something. I could do this in the background, like I said, you know, I could do my white girl dance in the background.
- [29:14]
B
I love it. No, it's the sequoia dance.
- [29:16]
A
Thank you. I'll do the sequoia dance in the background with you and Tyler in the foreground. And you guys can make music. It'll be really fun. I love that. What's your favorite? Tyler Albin. Do you have one?
- [29:26]
B
One?
- [29:27]
A
Okay, I can tell you mine if you want me to go first. Or you can go first if you have one. If you need time to think, I can tell you mine.
- [29:33]
B
Okay. I might need time to think.
- [29:35]
A
Okay. Do I need time to think as well?
- [29:39]
B
We think together.
- [29:40]
A
You know what? Let me run through. Let me. Let me, like. Okay. I'm gonna start with what I know.
- [29:43]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [29:44]
A
I really started with Tyler at Flower Boy.
- [29:46]
B
Got you.
- [29:47]
A
That's 2017.
- [29:47]
B
Yes.
- [29:48]
A
Flower boy. And then Igor was after that. That's the pink one.
- [29:51]
B
Yeah. Yes.
- [29:52]
A
And then it was Call me if you get lost.
- [29:55]
B
Chromo.
- [29:55]
A
Copia Corp. Yeah. And then it was. This was it. Call me the order I told. No, I told you. I don't have no memory. I don't have any memory. We know that. Both of them are in there.
- [30:07]
B
Yeah.
- [30:07]
A
Greeno. Chromopia. Come you get lost. And then this most recent one. Don't tap the glass.
- [30:13]
B
Yeah, that's the one I'm thinking. Okay.
- [30:14]
A
Okay.
- [30:15]
B
Got you. Got.
- [30:15]
A
And then he didn't drop nothing after that, did he?
- [30:17]
B
Yeah. I think it's over.
- [30:18]
A
Okay. I think that's it. Right? Because he's been very prolific lately. He's been it. Doing stuff. I really liked Flower Boy when it first came out.
- [30:25]
B
Get it?
- [30:25]
A
Because it was like. So it was him also, like, coming out as queer.
- [30:30]
B
Yeah.
- [30:31]
A
Outright for the first time. You know, like, he had kind of,
- [30:33]
B
like, said little things, but, like, he's had his, like, how they say his, like, past stuff. Like, I feel like, led to this one where it's like, oh, I can like, really upsert this, like, like who, Who I am.
- [30:46]
A
Exactly.
- [30:46]
B
And I, I, I appreciate him like, like just getting to that point because it's hard. And I mean, like, I was like, what you call. I think he's, I'm trying to think of the, like, where, like, where, what country it is, but what you. McCall. Like, I, I was like, I have Nigerian parents and I'm like, I totally understand the, like, the, just like the path. The path, the path, the journey. It's a tough, It's a tough journey. So to be able to get to where to. To that point in that album, I'm like, that's freaking awesome. That's incredible. And it was a beautiful thing to witness, I feel like.
- [31:22]
A
So, yeah, I really like that from him. I have a couple fun. Would you Rathers. And then, and then I think, I ain't got nothing else for you. I think that might be it.
- [31:31]
B
Oh, my God.
- [31:31]
A
Okay, you ready? It's just three of them.
- [31:34]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [31:34]
A
Nothing crazy.
- [31:35]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [31:35]
A
Would you rather never write your own music again? Somebody has to hand you the song written and you have to sing it as is. You cannot make, make an ad lib change nothing. No, that's it. Or would you rather never produce your own music again? Somebody hands you the track, you cannot make tweaks. You cannot work with them on shit.
- [31:54]
B
Both are horrid options.
- [31:56]
A
Absolutely.
- [31:58]
B
Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. Oh, okay. But I can choose who produces.
- [32:07]
A
You can choose who produces. You can choose who writes the song. Oh, you can choose both, but you cannot tweak and you cannot critique nothing.
- [32:16]
B
Okay. I almost, I, I want, I'm going to go with production because I feel like letting go of the writing is like, like I, I felt a part of my heart like, it's like a smoker's. Like, just like. Yes. Turn to a crisp.
- [32:32]
A
Absolutely.
- [32:34]
B
So I'm gonna go with writing very reluctantly.
- [32:37]
A
Okay. No, that's a good one. That makes complete sense. Your writing is so stellar. It. The way with words. When I looked up your degree and found out that it was nothing to do with English, I was like, hemlock's way with words. Like, God, can you leave some talent
- [32:53]
B
for the rest of us?
- [32:54]
A
Can you, like, leave some smarts and some talent for the rest of us?
- [32:58]
B
You're very kind.
- [32:59]
A
So, yeah, that, that makes sense to me. And also, naturally, your demos are fantastic.
- [33:03]
B
Thank you.
- [33:05]
A
I'm not gonna let be the girl go. I need it. I need the demo version. Next one. Would you rather never wear colored hair again or never wear colorful makeup again?
- [33:17]
B
Damn. Okay, let me Let me think. Let me think about. Let me think about it. Okay, so. Oh, my gosh. Are these, like, quick ones or. I'm like.
- [33:31]
A
You don't have to be quick. No, no, you don't have to be quick at all.
- [33:33]
B
Okay, maybe I'll talk it out.
- [33:34]
A
Yeah, talk it out. Let's go.
- [33:35]
B
Okay. Okay. So I can never wear colored hair again. So it's like black.
- [33:40]
A
You have to wear a 1B black hair color for the rest. You're doing 1B for the rest of your life. There is no wig. There's no dyeing your hair. There is nothing.
- [33:49]
B
Oh, that is brutal.
- [33:50]
A
You're doing 1B.
- [33:51]
B
That's brutal. Sequoia.
- [33:52]
A
That's it.
- [33:53]
B
Oh, my God. Okay, okay. But then makeup. I can only. I just. Just a natural. It's neutral.
- [34:03]
A
And I'm talking. I mean, you're not even putting on a pinky blush. Like, you are doing a neutral browns T. Flesh tones. Flesh tones, flesh tones.
- [34:15]
B
Oh, I think I'm gonna have to choose hair.
- [34:19]
A
Okay.
- [34:19]
B
Oh, my. The flesh.
- [34:23]
A
And I'm not doing. I'm not a flesh tone makeup look.
- [34:26]
B
Like, you know what? Like, I'll. I can, but I can. But I can, like, add, like. No, I can't add anything to that. You can.
- [34:34]
A
You can add. If you need to add, like, barrettes
- [34:36]
B
or maybe like, I'll add a barrett.
- [34:37]
A
You know what I mean? Maybe like some butterflies, some clips, like something naked stu.
- [34:43]
B
Like makeup. You kind of lost you. You know, like, wait a minute.
- [34:46]
A
I was watching you do your makeup on Tik Tok today, and I was like, you are so creative. Creativity.
- [34:53]
B
You did.
- [34:53]
A
You did clouds.
- [34:54]
B
Oh, my God.
- [34:55]
A
You had clouds, and there was water coming out of the clouds. There was teardrops coming out of the clouds. My goodness.
- [35:02]
B
Oh, my. I. I thought. I thought I messed it up. I was like, oh, whatever. You know, you have to kind of look busted for a couple of years before.
- [35:09]
A
Like, for a couple years, you never looked busted. You've never looked busted.
- [35:13]
B
But than. I mean, I've had. I've had makeup sweat off. I had wigs fall off, like, in front of.
- [35:21]
A
Because she's moving. Yeah, because she's on set. Because she's working. Damn it.
- [35:25]
B
Working guys.
- [35:25]
A
Okay, Nobody wants to work these days.
- [35:28]
B
No, literally. Nobody wants to work. It's like no one wants to.
- [35:35]
A
Get your ass up and work. Okay, last one. And I'm asking you this one because I know on sense is it's giving that you're not enamored by Hollywood.
- [35:47]
B
Oh, I hate it.
- [35:47]
A
Like you're not having a great time.
- [35:49]
B
Oh, I hate it here. Oh, was that the question?
- [35:51]
A
So it wasn't. But I, you know, we'll take it. We'll take it. Would you rather live in LA forever or live in North Carolina forever?
- [36:01]
B
Damn.
- [36:03]
A
So.
- [36:09]
B
Wow. Okay. No, you. You got me there. You got me.
- [36:13]
A
You got a little bit.
- [36:14]
B
Something a little bit. God damn. Okay. Oh, damn. Okay, see? Oh, God, this is hot.
- [36:24]
A
Talk me through it. What's going through your head?
- [36:26]
B
Okay, see my problem? I. I think, okay, North Carolina. And I could use anywhere in North Carolina.
- [36:34]
A
You, I mean, you're from Raleigh. Did I make that. That up?
- [36:37]
B
I was born in Raleigh. Bond from Congo or I'll have to go back and live in Concord, North Carolina.
- [36:42]
A
Home. You're going home. Yeah. So you're living in LA for the rest of your life. You're not living anywhere else or you're going home. So those are your options. I.
- [36:52]
B
That was, that was a good one. That was like, they. They've all been good ones, but that was a damn cuz for a minute there I was like, you know what? I can go to Asheville and I'll be fine. You're like, no, you're not going to Asheville.
- [37:04]
A
No, you're not going to Asheville.
- [37:06]
B
God damn. Okay,
- [37:11]
A
la. Okay, look, we have a new LA in. She loves it here. She's having such a good time.
- [37:21]
B
I'm trying to get out. I hate it here.
- [37:25]
A
Where would you actually go? Would you think in New York?
- [37:27]
B
Yeah.
- [37:27]
A
Okay.
- [37:28]
B
I feel like I would, but I think that I. I don't know what it is with me in la, but I feel like. I feel like me. What I sometimes get in LA is that I can be surrounded by so many people and still feel lonely.
- [37:42]
A
Yeah.
- [37:44]
B
Yeah. And like, it's not really a feeling that I'm familiar with because I'm very used to being alone and I'm okay with being alone, but I've never been like, oh, like, there are people surrounding me and I'm just like, I. It's like almost. Almost. Sometimes I feel like I have nobody to talk to. Like, it's like, it's. Sorry.
- [38:01]
A
I'm actually really sad to hear that. I am like, I'm like, oh, no.
- [38:06]
B
Yeah. But I mean, like, but it's. But I also think that like, a lot of my, like, my family's on the east coast for sure. They're like friends who are like, not associated with, like, music. Because I really treasure the. I really treasure, like how I've Been able to make like friends within, like the music industry and stuff like that. I think where I kind of, I'm starting to feel now or I'm starting to get it now is that like, how do I say, like, I love music. And when I got in, I, when I got in the, in the industry, like, I was doing this like, transition from hobby to work, and now it's, it's work. And so I even like the, the friends that I make within the industry and stuff, it's work. And know I'm just surrounded by so much work and I, I get very like, oh my God. Whereas, like in the East Coast, I'm able to find more of a balance for sure. And I think that I feel like if I had more of a balance here, I'll be like, okay. Like, yeah, I don't, I don't have that. And I feel like it's gonna take like a while for me to, to find it. Yeah. And I don't think I have the capacity to at the moment really go and search. Yeah. And I think, but I think in a different, different like, time period, I can come back and revisit and be like, yeah, but I think right now I'm like, I need to go.
- [39:35]
A
Yeah, I have to go. I get that. Yeah. In New York, I feel like the entire city doesn't revolve around the entertainment industry.
- [39:41]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [39:42]
A
But in la, it really is like the entire city revolves around entertainment. And so sometimes going out and making friends feels like networking.
- [39:49]
B
Yeah.
- [39:49]
A
It's all just like conflated, precise. And I get that.
- [39:52]
B
Precisely. But I mean, I have enjoyed my time being a struggle, struggling music artist in Los Angeles. And by enjoyed, I mean, like, I've had my, my, I've had my, my, Some of my highs and some of my really lows have been here. And I think I appreciate that the experience though, because I can write about it, period.
- [40:16]
A
At the end of the day, the art is gonna eat. It is going to eat. Yeah.
- [40:22]
B
So I'm very thankful for it. But my lease does end in November, so. So I'm trying to get that him
- [40:26]
A
walks in and I won't be renewing. I will not be renewing so much.
- [40:29]
B
I'm not saying, yeah, I will be, I will be jetting.
- [40:33]
A
What do you like to do? What do you like to do? Like what, what type of TV do you like to watch? What type of movies do you like? What do you like to do?
- [40:39]
B
I, I, I think lately I've been into C dramas, which has been interesting.
- [40:46]
A
Chinese dramas.
- [40:47]
B
Yeah. Because I was really. I was really into K dramas at a certain point. Dropped off. Not for any, like, bad, actually. Actually, no. I do have qualms. I feel like. I feel like I. I feel like they're becoming like, it's. It's becoming. Especially with them being like, K dramas being now, like, available on Netflix and like, Hulu and stuff like that. I feel like it's becoming more westernized and like, I feel like we used to get like, oh, like 24 episodes and stuff like that. Now we're getting like, eight. No, not the Netflix effect.
- [41:19]
A
It is not doing the eight episode thing.
- [41:23]
B
And like, and like, I, I like, maybe it's just the tropes. Maybe I'm kind of over. Like, I'm. I'm hoping for something different, if that makes sense. That's why Squid Game was, like, very interesting because it was just a really different. Like, I. I was like, I hadn't really heard of anything like that before. I was like, oh, that's. That's very unique smacked. But I think that, like, it follows similar tropes and stuff. And I'm just like, But I feel like the stat can be end with literally any. Anything. I just think I'm noticing it more and I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna wait until, like, I find something that I really like and stuff and I'll come back to it and stuff. And so I've been just kind of hopping back and forth and being like, okay, well, what is there? And I'm like, K dramas anymore. So where is it? And then now we got the se. Oh, we got some C dramas. But I'm also. I feel like, like, well, here's. Here's my problem. I feel like the shows that I really want to watch got canceled. So there was like. I feel like there was a show on Netflix that I really wanted to. Ozark is it. I loved Ozark and it got canceled.
- [42:31]
A
Ozark was so good.
- [42:32]
B
Yeah. And so I'm like. And then there was like, Free Ridge. There was a show now called Free Ridge that I wanted to watch, and it got canceled. And I was just like, okay, well, all right.
- [42:41]
A
You see how that, like, doesn't incentivize starting new shows.
- [42:45]
B
Yeah.
- [42:45]
A
Like, it's like, yeah, why would I start a new show? Because you guys are going to cancel it and not wrap it up in a good enough way. And then I'm just gonna be hanging here and I don't like it.
- [42:54]
B
Literally. No, it's like, I was like, why would I. And then there was like another show also on Common thread with Netflix. What? But not saying anything because I was like, I ever get.
- [43:03]
A
I'm not saying anything.
- [43:04]
B
I'm not gonna shut the bag in
- [43:05]
A
case you want to give me a bag too. Thank you.
- [43:08]
B
But there was another show, like Lesbian Vampires and then they canceled it.
- [43:13]
A
Oh.
- [43:13]
B
And I was just like, I was gonna watch that. I was gonna watch that show. And like, they said it was like, I feel like it was like one of those, like, oh, it's so bad. It's good shows. And I'm like, awesome.
- [43:25]
A
I love it. It's so bad. It's good show.
- [43:27]
B
Those are my favorites. It's usually a cinematic master.
- [43:31]
A
Yeah, I don't care.
- [43:32]
B
Like, I don't care.
- [43:33]
A
I agree.
- [43:34]
B
But then they. They canceled it. And like, I think one of the lead, like, the lead was a black girl. And I'm like,
- [43:42]
A
it's always the ones where the lead is a black girl that they want to cancel it. I wonder why that is. That's weird.
- [43:49]
B
And so. So I'm really. I'm trying to find my shows.
- [43:53]
A
I get you.
- [43:54]
B
I still try. I'm still trying to find my shells. We're.
- [43:56]
A
We'll.
- [43:57]
B
We'll see. We'll see.
- [43:57]
A
I'm trying to think of any shows. There's a couple shows. They're canceled. That's the thing.
- [44:03]
B
Yeah. I've been into Abbott, though.
- [44:06]
A
Oh, yeah, it's great. Abbott is a fun one and easy to watch.
- [44:10]
B
Like, precisely.
- [44:11]
A
You know, don't have to the world.
- [44:12]
B
World is heavy. Yeah.
- [44:13]
A
Abbott is nice. There was one show on Netflix called Dare Me and it was. I think it was like a one season show. And it also had a black girl lead.
- [44:23]
B
Yeah.
- [44:23]
A
And it was like very teen angsty, which is my favorite type of genre. Like, it was like, yeah, very teen angsty and dark and like, I liked it. So that was a good one. In case you feel like watching something that you know is not going to come back.
- [44:40]
B
Okay.
- [44:42]
A
And there was one other one, the Get Down. I really like to get down on Netflix.
- [44:46]
B
And they canceled the Get Down. I was actually. It's like I. I think I'd watched the first episode and then I found out it got canceled.
- [44:57]
A
Yeah.
- [44:58]
B
I was just like, I'm not watching this. Yeah. I'm like, I'm not gonna do this to myself. I. I don't think I can do this right now.
- [45:03]
A
Yeah. Yeah. It was really sad. Sad. It was really sad. Well, I hope we both get to watch some stuff that we like.
- [45:08]
B
Yeah.
- [45:09]
A
And that they stop playing with us.
- [45:10]
B
Yeah.
- [45:11]
A
Keep making seasons.
- [45:12]
B
Let it run its course at least. Damn.
- [45:14]
A
At least let me get so tired of it that it's like, okay, you guys can wrap this up, you know, like, let us get there eventually.
- [45:21]
B
Like, Castle, like, I like, you remember Castle, abc. There was. It was like this, like, it was like this detective and then this writer and they would go and they would like, solve crimes and stuff. Like at a certain point I'm like, okay, we get it. Like, we can wrap it up. But I, I love that it to that point.
- [45:38]
A
You know what I mean?
- [45:39]
B
Love that it never gets to that point anymore.
- [45:41]
A
No, it doesn't. They always take it away preemptively, literally. Kind of like we're going to have to end this interview too soon. Too soon. But Hemlock, thank you so much for joining. This has been wonderful. You are so lovely to speak to. Thank you. And get tickets to the tour.
- [45:56]
B
Yes.
- [45:57]
A
The Apple Tree under the Sea is going on tour starting in May.
- [46:00]
B
Yeah.
- [46:01]
A
And you're hitting so many different cities and there's different themes for each. Like, not each city, but like certain cities with different themes, games and. That's cool. And also stream and listen to the album. Buy it.
- [46:11]
B
Yeah.
- [46:11]
A
Get a vinyl. I'm gonna get one. It's gonna be so great.
- [46:15]
B
Do I have one?
- [46:16]
A
Don't you have a vinyl of your own album? Your own debut?
- [46:20]
B
It happens. It happens. I didn't get one of that. My ep.
- [46:23]
A
You did it?
- [46:24]
B
Yeah. Of the original one. Like, we were like, oh, like, can you like save one? And then they. They did it.
- [46:28]
A
I mean, it flew off the shelves like hotcakes, babe. The people wanted it, you know, if you want it. You gotta be quicker than that. You gotta to get your own. You gotta be quicker than that.
- [46:36]
B
I have to be quicker.
- [46:37]
A
You got to be quicker than that. Unfortunately. But that's about it for this episode. Thank you so much for joining Hemlock and I will see you soon, hopefully. Yes, I'll see you Saturday, matter of fact.
- [46:48]
B
Thank you so much.
- [47:07]
A
Maximum Fun. A worker owned network of artist owned shows supported directly by you.