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Book More Photography Clients Podcast | Photography Business, Photography Leads, Marketing
Afraid You Sound Salesy? Overcome Your Fear of Sales with Andee Hart
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- [00:01]
Brooke Jefferson
If your heart starts beating faster and your palms get sweaty when you hear the word sales, you are going to love today's conversation. I got to interview Andy Hart and she just brought so many golden nuggets to today's conversation. She has an incredible story of how she was able to transition from corporate sales to going all in in her own business and then turning around and helping others learn sales and their product based business. And she just gives so many incredible examples in this episode. I know you're going to be fired up. Andy Hart is a seasoned sales coach with a remarkable 17 year background in executive sales. She is the founder of Heart Design Co, which is a thriving candle company based in Arkansas. If you guys are ready, I'm ready. Here is our conversation. Welcome to the book More Clients Photography Podcast. You can stop spending hours on Google and YouTube because you just found your number one resource for growing a profitable and sustainable photography business. Hi, I'm Brooke Jefferson. I'm a believer wife, mama to two and Oklahoma family photographer. I left the classroom in 2018 to pursue my photography career full time. Now I'm here to help you do the same. In this podcast we're covering the most asked about topics including pricing, marketing, client experience and all things systems and workflows. You won't find any fluff or BS here. Just tried and true strategy. Are you ready? Grab your kids some snacks and charge those camera batteries. It's time to jump in. Andy, thank you so much for being here. Will you go ahead and introduce yourself to to my listeners?
- [02:00]
Andy Hart
Yes. Thank you for having me. It is a joy to be here. My name is Andy Hart and I own a candle company, Heart Design Company and then I am also the creator and founder of she Sells Differently which is a coaching company and I'm a sales consultant and podcast host and I teach women entrepreneurs and I say women entrepreneurs but I have some men too that I work with and primarily focus on product based businesses. How to teach them to sell more of their products without feeling so salesy. And so the principles that I teach though, whatever you're selling, they really will resonate with you. And I realize that so many of us we hear the word sales and we get, we get anxious, we get anxious and I'm one of those weird people that just love, I love sales. I've been in sales for over 18 years now and so I just realized that that was a gift that the Lord has given me. So I love to bless people and help teach them how to share their gifts with the world. So that is Me in a nutshell. And. And what I do, I love that.
- [03:16]
Brooke Jefferson
And who doesn't need more sales education or sales skills? So what you're doing is so needed. And I know my audience, they struggle with this. Why? Because they see it all the time. They don't know how to put themselves out there, or they don't really understand what sales is. And so I'm excited to dive into that. But before we get into the tactical and practical conversation, I want to know, you said you have a sales background that goes back 18 years. Tell us, what kind of sales were you in? What did you do? How did you get here?
- [03:52]
Andy Hart
Yes. So this is a. A little bit of a long story, but I want to share it because it is part of my God's story. And it also, I think, is just. It's a crazy story of how I got here, and one that only God could write, too. So if you had told me that I was going to be in sales when I was in. Even in college, I would have laughed because I wanted to be a dance teacher. I grew up dancing, taking tap, jazz, ballet. So I've always kind of had the entrepreneurial spirit. I wanted to start a dance studio. But when I was in college, my senior year, I was a part of American Marketing Association. We went on a trip to Nashville, Tennessee, and one of the businesses that we toured was a technology company, Dell Technologies, which probably a lot of people are familiar with. And they said, we are hiring any. You know, we're interviewing, we're hiring. We realize that you guys are not prepared to interview. You don't even have your resumes. But we'll interview anyone. Any seniors that want to interview today, my professor looked at me and said, you're going to interview and you'll thank me later. And I, Brooke, I was just mad because I was like, I'm ready to start my date studio. I don't want to interview for this tech company. I don't want to be in sales. I went in there, interviewed, got the job interview and prayed about it and thought, you know, I guess I'll do this for a year or two and then go start my dance studio. This will give me some spending money or, you know, savings. Well, 17 years later, I was still in technology sales and realized after doing it for a few years that I, you know, I wasn't good at it at first. But it was one of those things that I just kept at it and kept refining my approach and learned a lot and just stuck with it and developed a skill set that was really, really valuable. And so over 17 years, I had worked my way up the corporate ladder. I had moved to work for another large technology company, Lenovo. And so up until a year and a half ago, I was working for Lenovo. I had moved into a global sales director role. And I had started my candle company several years before that in my kitchen and started wholesaling my candles. And I had my candles in several hundred boutiques across North America. So it was really just booming at this time. I had hired a full time employee, so that was all on the side. And I had just started praying about what would this look like if I could dedicate all of my time to my candle company and to coaching other product makers how to sell. And so I remember it was January of 2023, and I was sitting at the beach praying, and I was writing in my journal and I wrote a date down to pray over. I'm going to dream big, right? And So I wrote September 29th. That's the date that I'm going to leave corporate America. And people are like, why did you write that date down? And I knew if I wanted to leave, I wanted to leave. Well, because I wanted, I respected my job. I love the people there, you know, I wanted to give them time to find a replacement. And, you know, I managed a pretty big organization there. So that was the end of the fiscal half at work. And so I wrote that date down. It was also five days before my 40th birthday. So I was like going to retire from corporate America by the time I'm 40, you know. So I had been praying over this date. This was September 29, 2023. So I had been praying over this for several months. And Brooke, at this is the end of March, I get a call from a VP at work and I'm sitting in my home office and he says to me, andy, we know we just gave you this promotion, but you know, economy is tough right now. We're letting people go and we are eliminating your job. And most people are getting let go next week, but we have approval to keep you on for six months because we want you to find a new job at the company. And I'm like, wait, what? I don't know whether to thank you or to, you know. And so I actually had the wherewithal to say, if I don't find a job at the company within six months, can I have a severance? Can I be let go? And he was, he said, absolutely. So I wish I could say it was all faith over fear, but I Hung up the phone that day, I walked in my kitchen and looked at the calendar, and what do you know? It was March 29th that day. And like I said, I wish I could say it was all faith over fear. It was just one of those, like, stories only God could write. And like I said, I wish I could say, like, in that moment, I knew that God was like, this is. This is your moment, Andy. But I interviewed for every job I could find at the company, and there was just not a job that was right for me. So March 29, I left my corporate job and have never looked back, and the Lord has just been faithful. So that is my kind of crazy corporate exit story. And now I get to wake up every day and do what I love, but still use the skills that I cultivated in my sales. Sales career and get to bless others with that as well and help them overcome that sales anxiety. Anxiety. So, yeah, kind of a long story, but I think it's worth. Worth sharing too.
- [09:51]
Brooke Jefferson
So one of the best stories I've ever heard. I'm over here tearing up and I have chills all over my body and I'm like that, wow, just how much God cares, first of all, in the details gets me every time. But this story is so powerful for two types of people. One, for people that have been there and done that, like me. I remember turning in the resignation letter, praying over this. I. I had resigned in. I think I turned my letter in the first week of November of 2017, and I fulfilled it until May, and then I left in 2018. So I also gave you, like, I made the decision and then I had to follow it up with action. And the other group of people are for those who, they're not happy where they are, or maybe they love what they do, but they also feel that tug of war. Am I supposed to pursue this photography business full time, or am I meant to stay and do this other thing that I also feel like is a calling? And so such a powerful story. And it really comes down to taking a leap of faith and praying about it and waiting until you get clarity. I will also. I will also bet based on your story, that you didn't feel 100% confident or clarity at all until after you made the decision to leave. I'm just curious. Let's dig in a little bit to. To that. Is that true for you?
- [11:14]
Andy Hart
Yes. And I will even say, Brooke, that after I made the decision, there were still times of doubt and even into the first year of entrepreneurship. And I think that this is just. I would even go so far as to say just spiritual warfare of just, you know, the enemy giving you doubt. And, and we talked about this earlier, of just mindset, of feeling, can I do this? But I look back and even in those times of doubt where I was struggling in doubt, the Lord provided and it was not a provision of abundance because I left a corporate sales job. And so my definition of wealth has been completely redefined because it's not about. You mentioned this earlier, it's not about prosperity. Right. But I have now been able to have time where I am able to serve others well and time where I get to do what I love. And I was even able to move closer to family, my immediate family. And so the gifts that I have been given as a result have blown my mind and they have not been financial gifts. However, that is what redefining wealth has looked like for me. And so I want to be clear on that. And that has been very much a challenge coming from a sales job. And so I look back and that was one of my biggest concerns yet. The Lord has always provided for my needs. And so, yeah, I was very much so scared. And I think he has just through friends and community and his word, he has just quieted those fears and led me and continued to help me scale my business. And I think that's an ongoing battle as, as you mentioned earlier too.
- [13:23]
Brooke Jefferson
So yeah, when you look back at starting your candle making business and then also working in corporate when like, what was it that made you go, I wonder what it would be like to just do the candle thing? What was it that was drawing you to your candle business?
- [13:44]
Andy Hart
I think it's because every day I would come home or I would end my job and I was excited to dive into an evening of making candles. Right. And so it was like, let's be clear, a sales job is not 9 to 5 either. You know, I might be working 7 to 7 on my corporate job, but then I would work till 10, 11 making candles or doing a marketing plan for my candle company. And I was so excited about it. And that's what I thought about when I went to bed. That's what I thought about when I woke up and when I had free time. And so I remember it was about this time I've listened to Amy Porterfield. I know she's very, very popular, but she came out with a book called Two Weeks Notice. And so I subscribed to a launch event that she had for that book. It was right about that time. And that's when it kind of really sparked in me, when am I going to give my two weeks notice? I need to just write this down and dream big. And so that was just really kind of the catalyst for that when you can't let go of that dream. And I, I venture to guess you have listeners right now that are thinking I'm dreaming big about a photography business and I can't let go of that. And there's a reason why you have that dream, you know.
- [15:16]
Brooke Jefferson
Yes, yes, yes. It's such a calling and thank goodness that we get to be excited about what we do because if the passion wasn't there, it wouldn't be any fun. Like why would we show up through the hard and continue to run a business? So, okay, so let's transition into sales. Obviously you come from corporate sales now you're a sales coach. And I would love to. First of all, I just want to address, I don't think anybody is just born with the sales skill set and I think that's important to put out there. Now I believe there's a gift of sales like you, you talked about and how, you know. Yes, that's like how God has blessed you to understand it and do it better than, than most people. But I don't think we're walking out of the womb with the skill set to sell. I do think it is something that can be learned, it can be adapted and you can infuse your own personality right into it. So photographers, we want bookings, right. We want to put ourselves out there. But we feel fear, we feel doubt, we feel, you know, we're scared of what other people are going to think. We're scared that nobody's going to want what we have, we're scared we're not good enough as an artist. And so when we project those things in our marketing or we don't market at all and we're just expecting right for clients to be dropped on our doorstep. First of all, how can we overcome this fear of selling in general as a mindset issue?
- [16:47]
Andy Hart
Yes. So the first thing I'll say, and I have three points that I want to share, but the first thing I'll say is that we're all selling every day, whether you realize it or not. And selling really is about influencing. And so if you have kids, you're really, you're selling them and influencing them to go. The fact that brushing your teeth at night is important and it's good for your health. Eating your vegetables is good for your health. There's so many aspects of your day that you are selling and influencing that you don't even realize when you share your favorite beauty product or whatever with a friend, you're selling them on it. And so the problem is that our culture has taught that the word sales is a very negative thing. But I want to reframe that for your audience. That selling when you have a product or a service that provides value, that you actually owe it to others to share about it. And so, you know, for you, if you have a friend of yours and you have something that you really love, of course you're going to go share it with a friend, because you love them and you want them to experience that too. And so that is the same mindset that you have when it comes to selling and influencing. You're really serving your audience because you're sharing something that will provide value for them. And I think a lot of the problem in our culture is that people sell things that they don't believe in. And so what I know to be true about your audience and about my audience is that they are selling things that they have created and that they believe in. And so when you are selling your photography talent, you believe in that. And so that is part of the the selling process. And so I want you to internalize that and know that you have something of value to offer. And also that some of the best salespeople that I have seen, they are introverts. And we have this kind of culture that thinks that. And this is really my first point, this culture, this kind of boss babe culture. And I have fallen trapped to that kind of when I was, you know, in my early years, in corporate years, this boss babe culture and this extrovert. Some of the best salespeople that I have seen are introverts. And the reason for that is because they have leaned in to who God created them to be and their God given personality. And what I have seen them do is simply connect and love others well and get to know others and they serve and then they make other people feel comfortable and they are naturally being who God created them to be and embracing that. And then other people want to buy what they offer because of that.
- [20:19]
Brooke Jefferson
Okay, that is such a good point. I have to pause you right there because as you were describing, this person, literally one of my business coaches that I have in this season of my business is everything you just described. She is absolutely being who God created her to be. And she takes that time to connect with people, make them feel seen in a very authentic and genuine way. And then it makes you want to be in her world. And she is so good. And she is absolutely an introvert and adhd like, and she. And she's proud about that, right? And she just does such a good job. The other thing that I wanted to recap and just say I totally agree with this, is that there's a huge difference in how we feel about selling something that we 100% fully believe in and see value in versus something that, hey, yeah, I can make a couple dollars out of this, but I think it's a crappy product or I'm not really sold on that. And we've all experienced a bad sale, right? We've all bought the course that was crap. We've all bought. Someone said they were going to do something and they completely just bombed it and didn't perform that service or give us what they said they were going to. And so then it's like, oh, well, I've. I've lost that trust. But you're not selling something that you picked up off the street or that doesn't mean something to you. You are selling you your art, but also the gift that you have of bringing that art to other people. So I just wanted to circle back to that because that was so good and so true. And that right there eases that fear of selling because we know that it can be backed with value. So I love that so much.
- [22:07]
Andy Hart
Yes, absolutely. And along those lines, it's important to remember that what you have to offer is not for everyone. And what I mean by that is that not everyone is. Is going to want to invest in photography. Not everyone is going to want to invest in my sales coaching or my candles or what have you. And that is okay. That is not a personal thing. That is okay. And I think the sooner that you can understand that, the easier it is to talk about your products and to know that a no hearing a no. I always say this, people will say no means next. I always say no means not yet because it just may not be the right time. And I've had so many clients that have said no and they will come back and if they never do, that's okay too. But it is always important to get to know and ask the right questions. Instead of pushing your product on someone, you ask the right questions because just as much as the potential client is trying to see if they want to purchase from you, you are also trying to see if your product is the right fit for them. Because, and this leads into my second point, the last thing that you want is for them to invest in what you are selling and it be a bad experience. And so my second point is that often in our culture we see objections and problems and we try to just like force through them. But these are actually opportunities to create an amazing customer experience. And so I'll give you like a prime example. I offer consultation calls with potential clients. And I had a client and she sells artwork, and the course that she was interested in purchasing from me is a wholesale course. And the more I was getting to know her and asking her questions, I realized my course is not a good fit for what she is looking to accomplish. And she was ready to invest. And I told her, I would love to help you, however, this is going to lead to a. It's just not going to help you accomplish what you're trying to accomplish. And so I would suggest you not investing in my course. And I'm. I'm actually going to point you to someone else that could better serve you. And so, you know, she was. I was actually giving her an objection and not taking her money. And that is so countercultural in our. In the sales world. Right. But she actually came back to me a while later and invested in something completely different in my product offerings because I was upfront with her and got to know her and recommended what was right for her. And so I say all that to say is that using objections and problems as opportunities to really get to know your audience and don't be afraid to say no and to be confident enough in what you're selling that when it's not the right opportunity, that you steer them to someone else that can better serve them. You know, it's. It is very countercultural and you have to be confident enough to. To turn down money, to turn down a sale.
- [26:08]
Brooke Jefferson
That is so good because I do hear a lot of business coaches and other sales people tell you, like, you're not going to accept objections. You're just going to power through them and you're just going to twist someone's arm and, and put them into. To get them to book you, to get them to hire you as a coach, whatever it take. So I know that there are times when we're going to hear objections where I like to call them. Like, sometimes there are red flags in the questions, in the objections to where I'm like, okay, whoa, stop. This person is not like, this is not the right time for them, or I'm not the right person for them. What would you say to other objections that might be based out of fear or whatever it's based out of? Maybe it's based on reality. But I know the biggest one I hear from photographers. And since you are in sales, I have to ask your opinion on this one. What do you do when someone simply just says like that's expensive or you know, how do we, how do we deal with just the general public thinking that photography should be a cheap service and not, you know, necessarily like a higher valued service.
- [27:17]
Andy Hart
So pricing is one of those objections. It's a little bit of a different objection or it's a lot. Let me clarify. It's a lot different objection than some of the others because I could get on a soapbox talking about pricing. There's usually when I hear an objection with pricing, there's an underlying objection there and I will ask questions to get to that underlying reason. I always have a more of a roi, you know, kind of conversation about why my course or my offering or my service is going to provide value down the road. But I don't immediately go into that without understanding the underlying reason. Because if you just, you know, a lot of people will handle objections by cruising right on it. Like, I mean, you know, think of it like you see a cement roadblock and they'll just cruise right on through that roadblock without stopping and understanding why it's even there in the first place. And so what I like to do is ask the right questions to get the customer to take the roadblock down themselves. The last, and what our culture teaches is that we're going to cruise through the roadblock and bust through it. And that's where we get this icky salesy feeling because we're being pushy. And so I love to ask questions and uncover the reason and help the customer take their roadblock down themselves. And so in that situation I would probably ask, tell me a little bit more about that. You know, have you had an experience in the past where maybe you had you bought product photography and it wasn't what you expected or, or something like that. Or if it's a course, you know, that's where you can show testimonials or the, you know, for my wholesale course, I will show, you know, here's the wins that my customers have gotten and is paid for the course or the bookings that my photographers have gotten that have paid for the course, things like that, that show that what you are going to learn and what you are going to invest in is going to pay for this. But usually when it comes to price it, there is an underlying reason. There's usually something else there. So I always kind of, when it Comes to sales. Pricing is a band aid for something.
- [30:07]
Brooke Jefferson
So for sure, yes. And I've heard that before. I've heard that we can't just take that at face value. Right. There's usually something else because I've also noticed, and photographers are totally going to be like, oh, my gosh, yes, let me roll my eyes, because I've seen it too. Someone will tell us we're too expensive, and two months later, they're on a Disney cruise. You know what I'm saying? It's like, so to me, it's like, well, where's the priority? You know, what do you want as a customer, a client that's kind of on you. You know, you could afford it if you saved up for it. So just to be really practical, what I'm hearing you say, and you could totally correct me, I just like to give one tangible tip. And I know this is going to transform conversations. So if someone is talking to a lead, a photography lead, they're interested in services, we send them, we show them, you know, here's our package options, and they actually tell us at face value, you know, that's out of our budget or that's too expensive. Expensive. We don't have to just say, okay, thanks, bye. Like, we could actually continue that conversation. What is just one question we could send back to them.
- [31:15]
Andy Hart
Yeah. So what I would do is I would either say, what is your budget? I. I mean, I would just flat out ask, what is your budget? Or what is your end goal that you are trying to accomplish here? Because if you can ask what their end goal is that they're trying to accomplish, usually they'll. They'll answer for them. And then you can go back and say, okay, if you're wanting to accomplish this, then this is why you, you can invest in this course. So if you're talking about, like a photography package or, you know, and you can say, if you want quality photography, then this is why this pricing is. Is worth that. Right. And the fact of the matter is they'll shop around. And here's what I will say, too. And this is kind of a countercultural sales piece too. Don't be afraid. I do this a lot. Don't be afraid. I would ask a question. Is your end goal to have, you know, quality and evoke that emotion, you know, quality memories with your family captured? But say, I would recommend go shop around. Don't ever back down on your value. I would recommend you go shop around. And when you go shop around and you realize that what I provide is you know, the best quality and captures your family in. In the best light. There's a reason why you came to me. Then you'll understand why my pricing is. Is what it is. So, okay, don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to send them because what that shows is that you are confident in your value. And the reality is they don't want to have to go shop around and have that conversation.
- [33:02]
Brooke Jefferson
Yeah, Okay. I love this. And of course, everyone, we're not doing this out of. We're not being rude. Right. We're being confident. Very different. Very different.
- [33:14]
Andy Hart
Yes, yes. And you do this in kindness for sure. And also, like I want to say this, you are confident in your value. The Lord gave you a gift. And I think that's one of the challenges that we have. And I don't want to gender stereotype us, but I think sometimes as women, like, we, we want to serve and that. And that is really, really a good thing. But when it comes to our gifts, we are making money to provide for our families. And so, so it's easy for us to want a discount and when we get pushed back on money and it's also a shot to our ego sometimes, and it's easy, especially if we're new in the business, to say, oh, we want that client, so we'll give them a 200 discount. I've been so guilty of it. But stand by your value, because when you offer that discount, a consumer mindset, it just cheapens your value. So don't be afraid to say, hey, feel free to go look around and check the market value because you will definitely see that this is standard value and you can do that in kindness because kindness is, is so important to your point.
- [34:35]
Brooke Jefferson
Yeah. Okay. That was so helpful. Thank you. I just know I always put myself into the shoes of a listener and I know they're going to be like, just tell me what to say. Like, give me an example. And so I had, I had an example out of you. But yes, I love the way you just worded that as well. Like, this truly is standard and maybe I'm even below standard or above standard or whatever. Right. But I love the way that that was worded. So. Okay, I know you have one more point, so I'm going to let you get to that point.
- [35:05]
Andy Hart
Yes. Last point. And this is. It really kind of ties into. What I was just saying is we talk about selling all the time, but don't be afraid in your process is to serve. Right. And so I want to clarify what I mean by Serving is that go the extra mile for your clients, provide that amazing client experience for them because this truly will set you apart. And this can be little things from before you ever book a client to even after you book them the experience that you give them, you never quit serving. And so it could be things like the selling process that you are constantly serving your clients up front by educating them on what the photography process looks like when they book with you for a family photography session to afterwards, you maybe send them a gift. And this doesn't have to be even an expensive gift at all, but this could just be something small and it's memorable and maybe it could be something that would keep them coming back to you for next year's family photography. So you're always kind of thinking forward to what is going to make them come back to me next year and make them think of me. And so little things maybe like a simple photo album that they could put some of their pictures in. And this, like I said, this doesn't have to be expensive and handwritten thank you note that goes so long. But those are ways to serve your audience and to love them well and to keep them coming back. And those are just very countercultural to what a lot of people do today where they get the sale and then they, they provide the service and move on. And so really think of ways to set your brand in your company apart to where people. You're top of mind.
- [37:21]
Brooke Jefferson
Yes. And I preach on this. So it's so awesome when someone else comes in and they're like, this is important. Your client experience is. And I feel like we're at a whole new standard for client experience these days. Like there's a baseline now where you know, just because you provide them with a prep guide or a style guide, everyone's doing that now. So what? How can you be one level above, right? One cut above the average? And again, this is not saying that you're pouring all this money. There's so many things you can do for free or you can do for less than a dollar. Right. That's going to help you go that extra mile for people. What I love the most about client experience is after someone invests, it's very different when and I've had this experience where I invest with someone high dollar, there's nothing that comes after it. It's like, wait a second, there was no confirmation email, There was no thank you card, There was nothing. And now I'm like, so I guess I'm just waiting until April, whatever. And then we'll work together. Like, that's weird. Don't do that. Because then it starts, you start doubting, did I invest in the right person? Is my money safe? You know what I mean? It's a trust thing. Whereas when you can show client experience by making sure you're kind of hand holding them the whole way, or they at least get something from you to where they go, okay, I feel safer. I know that this is already a great experience. And then they love their photos. Now they're raving and bragging about you to their friends. That helps the objections. And people hiring you like, truly. So I love that the client experience really rounds out the selling point. If you do this really well. The people who were hesitant at first, a little bit fearful to invest that much money in you, now they're like, this was above and beyond my expectations. I'm going to go tell everybody and you're going to get a buttload of clients because of it. I love it.
- [39:19]
Andy Hart
Yes. Another thing that I talk about with my clients too is to partner with in this, in this talk, you know, with serving your clients. Partner with adjacent businesses that have the same target audience, but they do something different. And how can you partner together to serve your audience? So I'll give you an example for like product photographers. Maybe there is a business that does Christmas cards. You know, they design Christmas cards or something like that. And you partner together and they send, you know, they promote to their clients, their local clients for product, family photography. And you have a coupon code for them that your clients, your photography clients get 10, 15% off on their Christmas cards once you've taken their Christmas photos. And so stuff like that is really cool where you can partner with other businesses, and that's just one example. But you can partner with other businesses that do something completely different. But your services complement each other and you're serving your audience. It's just a really cool way to reach other potential clients too.
- [40:44]
Brooke Jefferson
So, yes, and it's added client experience because you're like, hey, here's what I have for you. Did you know? And they're like, oh, another gift. Amazing, right? I love that so much. And I'm a huge, like, cheerleader for getting involved in your community, getting involved with other business owners, because there is so much to go around. I've even told photographers that are in two different niches to partner together and send all the referrals. So if you don't do weddings, but you can buddy up with the wedding photographer when she gets the family inquiries, y'all can Trade. And that's how you get more business. So I love that you threw that bonus tip in there, too. So good. Yeah, so good. Okay. Anything that you want to leave the listeners with regarding selling in any kind of way?
- [41:34]
Andy Hart
Yeah, I would say this. If you are struggling with selling, think of it like, you know, when you're first going to a gym and you're building muscle and it takes time. And so the more that you use that muscle, the stronger you're gonna get. And so I always tell people it's 10 seconds of courage, 10 seconds to put yourself out there. And I always remind myself, because even being in sales for 18 years, there are still times that I get nervous about pitching something or what have you. And so 10 seconds of courage. The worst thing that can happen is someone says no. Someone says no. And that's okay. That is okay. Because it's going to happen. It is going to happen. And no just means not yet. And the more that you hear no, the more that you can refine your conversation and you will get your 1, 1 no closer to a yes. And so just continue to build that muscle and just remember that changing that, that mindset that you're selling every day. And it is just you're selling what you have, and what you have is valuable to others.
- [42:52]
Brooke Jefferson
Andy, this was so good. This just like I said, these conversations are like a warm hug. And it's confirmation that we are in the right, you know, we're on the right, but it's also giving us education to where we can audit what we're doing and do it, you know, a little bit better than we were before. And so we're just trying to be better every single day. Where can my listeners connect with you and follow you online?
- [43:21]
Andy Hart
Yes. So I have a podcast, she sells differently, which Brooke is also a guest on. And so you'll have to check out that episode and then you can find me over on. I have a free Facebook group, which if you just search on Facebook, she sells differently. And I offer some great free training, sales trainings in there. So feel free to join the free Facebook group if you would like to learn a little bit more.
- [43:50]
Brooke Jefferson
Amazing. Yes, we'll definitely have to check out your Facebook group and your podcast. This was such a great conversation. Thank you for helping us overcome our fear of selling so we can get out there and truly live up to our calling of photography.
- [44:07]
Andy Hart
Yes. Thanks for having me.