A Killing Cold By Kate Alice Marshall and a discussion on the ultra wealthy

Summary

Podcast Summary: Books With Your Besties – Episode on A Killing Cold by Kate Alice Marshall and the Ultra Wealthy

Podcast Information:

• Title: Books With Your Besties
• Hosts: Emily and Ashley
• Episode: A Killing Cold by Kate Alice Marshall and a Discussion on the Ultra Wealthy
• Release Date: March 21, 2025
• Description: Emily and Ashley delve into the gripping thriller A Killing Cold, exploring its intricate characters and suspenseful plot. Additionally, they engage in a profound discussion about the morality and societal impacts of extreme wealth, drawing parallels between the novel and real-world examples.

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1. Introduction to A Killing Cold (00:14 - 00:54)

Emily and Ashley kick off the episode by introducing their latest book club pick, A Killing Cold by Kate Alice Marshall. Their enthusiasm is palpable as they rate the book highly—Emily gives it a 4.5 stars and Ashley a 5 stars. They highlight the compelling nature of the book, emphasizing the synchronized reading experience that kept them eagerly turning pages together.

Notable Quote:

• Emily [00:54]: “It was a great book. So full spoilers coming. So if you haven't read it, do read it and then come back.”

2. Setting and Initial Impressions (00:56 - 02:08)

The hosts delve into the book's setting—a snowy retreat where characters are trapped due to severe weather, reminiscent of Jason Rakulik's The Last One at the Wedding. They appreciate the isolation created by the lack of Wi-Fi and cell service, which heightens the suspense and mystery.

Notable Quote:

• Ashley [02:08]: “I personally felt a little claustrophobic. Like being in those situations makes me feel trapped, as they're supposed to, but just not being able to escape his family and all the questions they have for her.”

3. Character Development and Plot Twists (02:36 - 07:36)

Emily praises the unraveling of the main character's past, noting how the gradual revelation adds depth to the narrative. They discuss the psychological aspects of the protagonist’s trauma, including repressed memories and the impact of her abusive upbringing. The twist involving Magnus as the true antagonist shocked both hosts, highlighting the book's ability to defy expectations.

Notable Quotes:

• Emily [04:20]: “I. I disagree with you. I love the setting. I personally felt a little claustrophobic...”
• Ashley [07:36]: “We don’t attend, we don’t go. Because I firmly feel like even if your church is one of the good ones, which probably it's actually not, you're still then supporting a system that right now is doing more harm than good.”

4. Themes: Wealth, Morality, and Religion (07:37 - 17:24)

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the portrayal of the ultra-wealthy in the novel. Emily and Ashley critique how immense wealth can erode moral compasses, leading to unethical behaviors like covering up crimes and perpetuating family secrets. They draw parallels to real-life wealthy families, such as the Murdochs, to illustrate how money can shield individuals from accountability. Additionally, the hosts touch upon the destructive influence of toxic religious environments, as depicted in the book, and share their personal journeys away from organized religion.

Notable Quotes:

• Emily [09:08]: “I thought that was, like, absolutely ridiculous. And I thought, certainly this young woman is going to understand with the amount of money that this family has that she should be like, try 5 million.”
• Ashley [17:24]: “…reading about this guy, reading about this Harris Rosen, that everyone should look up and what he did and how effective it was made me so sad that we as a country are so accepting of the uber wealthy hoarding.”

5. Real-life Examples and Philanthropy (17:25 - 28:44)

The discussion shifts to real-world philanthropists like Harris Rosen, who used his wealth to significantly improve impoverished communities. Emily highlights Rosen's Tangelo Park Program, which transformed a struggling neighborhood in Orlando by providing scholarships, free daycare, and educational resources, leading to a dramatic increase in graduation rates and a decrease in crime.

Notable Quotes:

• Emily [21:44]: “It just is so disgusting when people have that much money. I'm all for people getting plenty of money, but we are not talking about people here who have $5 million or like three vacation homes...”
• Ashley [25:12]: “Their money 100% and that somehow a certain percentage of the population has been, what I would say, brainwashed into believing somehow if they..."

6. Contrasting Wealth Perceptions and Responsibilities (28:45 - 33:46)

Emily and Ashley debate the societal perceptions of wealth, challenging the notion that wealthy individuals inherently contribute positively to society. They argue that excessive wealth can lead to a detachment from communal responsibilities, fostering environments where unethical actions go unchecked. The hosts express frustration with the societal acceptance of wealthy individuals prioritizing their status and legacy over genuine philanthropic efforts.

Notable Quotes:

• Emily [28:44]: “It's just gross how wealthy some people have gotten and then what they choose to do with that money and where it goes...”
• Ashley [33:46]: “They are worried about staying wealthy, just like in the book. They are worried about protecting themselves.”

7. Personal Reflections on Wealth and Ethical Use (33:47 - 34:00)

In a lighter yet still meaningful exchange, Emily and Ashley imagine how they would responsibly handle substantial wealth. They emphasize prioritizing family, paying off debts, and supporting charitable causes rather than indulging in extravagant purchases. This conversation underscores their belief in using resources to effect positive change rather than personal gain.

Notable Quotes:

• Ashley [31:21]: “Yes. I mean, that's what you would do. I know you. And that's what I would do. I would look at how, what's the greatest impact I could...”
• Emily [30:53]: “I would just be like, okay, let's pay off our house. Let's buy a Sun river house. Maybe we buy a little condo at the beach. And then let's, let's get rid of the rest.”

8. Concluding Thoughts and Final Impressions (34:01 - End)

Emily and Ashley wrap up their discussion by reiterating their appreciation for A Killing Cold, lauding its ability to intertwine a thrilling narrative with profound social commentary. They encourage listeners to reflect on the ethical implications of wealth and the importance of using resources to support and uplift communities.

Notable Quote:

• Ashley [33:56]: “Thanks for listening. For more content, find us on Patreon at the Creepy Book Club. Happy reading.”

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Key Takeaways:

• A Killing Cold serves as a potent commentary on the corrupting influence of extreme wealth and toxic family dynamics.
• Emily and Ashley emphasize the importance of ethical philanthropy and criticize societal structures that enable the ultra-wealthy to evade accountability.
• The hosts advocate for using personal resources to foster community growth and support marginalized populations, drawing inspiration from real-life philanthropists like Harris Rosen.
• The discussion also touches on the detrimental effects of rigid religious environments and the journey towards personal spirituality detached from institutional doctrines.

Overall, this episode of Books With Your Besties not only provides an in-depth review of A Killing Cold but also engages listeners in a meaningful dialogue about wealth, morality, and societal responsibility.

Transcript

[Ashley]

For bonus and extra content, head to our Patreon. Thanks for your support. Enjoy the episode.

[Emily]

Hi, I'm Emily.

[Ashley]

I'm Ashley.

[Emily]

And this is Books with your besties.

[Ashley]

Let's start over. You start.

[Emily]

Hi, besties. This week we're talking about a Killing Cold with Kate, Alice Marshall. Hey, Ash.

[Ashley]

Hi. Did you finish?

[Emily]

Of course I finished. I was ready for this. Sue.

[Ashley]

I. I actually was thinking. I can't remember. I mean, we really have loved most of our books of the month, but this one, we were literally texting each other, like, what page are you on?

[Emily]

Yes. Which is fun to read together and really be at the same spot.

[Ashley]

And we knew already that you would most likely enjoy this book because it was set in the snow and people were essentially trapped because of the weather. So let's just get into the book, the characters, everything about it, because I think I give it five stars.

[Emily]

Yeah, I'm right up there. Close four and a half.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Emily]

Five. It's a great book. So full spoilers coming. So if you haven't read it, do read it and then come back. Here's what I love. It was sort of the classic locked door mystery. Here's all this family at this retreat. The setting really reminded me of Jason Rakulik's the last one at the wedding, with the, like, little cottages they were staying in that were all individually named, and then the big, beautiful lodge. I thought the setting was great. I loved that it was snowy. I loved that they didn't have WI fi or cell service, except if you went down by the gate at this one spot. I liked a lot of things about it. It was all very kind of normal trying to unfold this main character's past story that I would say about halfway through, when she did kind of unravel her story, that was the best part to me.

[Ashley]

I. I agree with you. I love the setting. I personally felt a little claustrophobic. Like being in those situations makes me feel trapped, as they're supposed to, but just not being able to escape his family and all the questions they have for her. Because when we find out why she's there and what happened to her, it changes everything.

[Emily]

Yes. I think the being snowed in part would be the hard part, because she had. They had their own little cabin. So you'd think, okay, let's go to dinner and then we get all this break and then we go, have we go bake a little bit. But she spent, like, the whole day alone one day. I don't know. It seems like such a would be Such an ideal, fun vacation to me. Like retreat with you, get your own space. But there's this like common space too. I forget. What did you say?

[Ashley]

Oh, just saying that when. When you do find out what happened to her in her past life, it. You really are scared for her and what the family's gonna find out.

[Emily]

Yes, I definitely. Okay, here's what I loved. I loved that she was kind of identifying and unraveling her memories about being there at Dragonfly and being the little girl that is in the photograph with the dead dad, with Liam, and being like, who is she? And having these vivid memories that brought that out. I also think, as unbelievable as it would be that she ended up back there. And that's the kind of part where you have to be like, it's a fiction story, it's okay. I thought that the author did a nice job of weaving in that Connor told her to go to la. That's maybe why she ended up there. When they were little and they played like they wanted to end up together. And then also that he recognized her from a picture and felt drawn to her. So he didn't know who she was, but he felt drawn to her and. And wanted to meet her. And then she felt like she was drawn to him. So that past connected them in that way. And I'm glad that the author wove that in versus being like, oh, so coincidental, just randomly these people ended up. She ended up bringing her back.

[Ashley]

I. I appreciated that it wasn't another huge twist because I was kind of waiting on like the last two pages for Theo to be like, no, actually I remember everything and I came here on purpose or Connor to turn out to be like really nefarious and bringing her there for a reason. So the fact that it did end up that it was coincidental that they met and she ended up there was like a non twist twist because I fully expected it to go an opposite direction.

[Emily]

Yeah, the. So the parts to me where I like jaw dropped were when she told the story about wanting to go get the abortion and Beth like beating her and them locking her in the basement. I mean that was just. The whole story was just like, I couldn't put the book down. And then again when Joseph called, she called her and she talked to him on the phone and it turned out that he was gay. I just thought that whole storyline of her adopted parents in the past being super religious and they're gonna beat the devil out of her because she had premarital sex with another boy and it's her Fault. It's a woman's fault, of course. She was being a temptress and this poor young boy couldn't help himself. And then they're trying to, you know, convert and squash this man's sexuality. And so he's living in this, like, hostile environment with this woman who he doesn't love and hoping that loving this child will be enough for him. Was such good commentary on how sinister religion can be. And I know we're going to get some haters for this because I grew up Christian. I grew up in going to a Christian church. I spent a lot of years involved in, in religion. I know. Ashley, you still have a church that you identify with and do you still call yourself, are you a Christian Enough?

[Ashley]

If I had to say something, yes. But at this point, I'm just a be. Be a good person. I. Since my dad's passing, I'm like, I think there's something there. I don't know what it is, but if I had to identify. Yeah, okay.

[Emily]

Yeah. And I would say that I am not, which is hard to say after all those years of time really invested in that and spent with. But I, I agree there's maybe something out there, something bigger, but I don't really need to identify and name it. And I certainly don't want to follow the practices of the church anymore. Agree. Almost, almost universally, I know people will be like, my church is so nice. No, it probably isn't. Like, that's so cynical of me. But maybe there are. I'm sure there's nice individuals within churches and there's nice. I know there are. Obviously, I'm not, I'm not saying. I'm sure there are. I know there are. And I'm sure there are one off churches that really have kind of nicer practices and are less judgmental and less hypocritical. But as a whole, the church now seems to be very toxic and dangerous.

[Ashley]

And we, we don't attend, we don't go. Because I firmly feel like even if your church is one of the good ones, which probably it's actually not, you're still then supporting a system that right now is doing more harm than good.

[Emily]

Yeah. What was it Mahatma Gandhi said? Your Christians are nothing like your Christian.

[Ashley]

Yes. And then there's the saying, no hate like Christian love.

[Emily]

Yeah. I just, I feel like this book did such a nice job of demonstrating just how misled people can be with their behavior around something that they think are their values or beliefs. Boy, is that a theme. Is that ever a theme. That I feel like we're seeing lately.

[Ashley]

Well, and. And in the book, instead of supporting a young teenage gal who made a mistake, which teenagers do, they abuse her and hurt her and threaten her and do the complete opposite of what someone who really did identify with Jesus or whatever God is supposed to be. How. That how you would treat someone.

[Emily]

Exactly.

[Ashley]

Yeah. Yeah. There were a lot of. Through lines of. I mean, I even felt with. With Magnus and Liam and all of the characters, there was a through line of obviously misogyny, patriarchy, religion. She was really smart in. In this book to get you to really question if these characters. I even wrote to you remember? And I was like, I can't decide if Liam is really a good guy or really, really, really a bad guy.

[Emily]

Yeah, Liam.

[Ashley]

Little above.

[Emily]

Was it Liam?

[Ashley]

Oh, it was Magnus.

[Emily]

Magnus, yeah. The dad. The dad. Well, I know, and I think the characters were very nuanced, and I think that she did a great job with that, because here's the thing, and I know we're going to jump around, but I. I think people. This is just what people want to talk about anyway, that you've read the book. At the end, when it turns out that Magnus is the one who killed.

[Ashley]

Her mother, left her to die in the cold.

[Emily]

Left Magnus? Dude. Yeah.

[Ashley]

Like, he found her and she had her phone. He found Mallory. Right. And he could have helped her, and he didn't.

[Emily]

Oh, not only did he not help her, Ashley, he stabbed her.

[Ashley]

Okay, I forgot.

[Emily]

She wasn't even going to die from the gunshot wound that Alexis inflicted. She was fine and alive. He stabbed her and killed her. So when you find that out at the end, the complexity of that is that I was still torn. Should she take the money and knowing he's dying anyway and let this die with him? And Nick is dead, Magnus is dead, Vance is gone. Or should she go and seek justice through traditional legal means? And she chose that one.

[Ashley]

You did. She did. And there are different amounts of money that mean different things to different people. Right. Like, to some people, a certain amount of money is a lot. To some people, it's not. When they offered her $75,000 for Theo, that could be potentially life changing. But in the grand scheme of things, for the amount of money that family had, that was. That would be like, here's five dollars. Piss off.

[Emily]

I thought that was, like, absolutely ridiculous. And I thought, certainly this young woman is going to understand with the amount of money that this family has that she should be like, try 5 million.

[Ashley]

One of the things I thought that the Author did really well. And I feel like in a lot of the books we read, this is not done as well is that Theo was a very smart female character. She made some unsafe decisions throughout the book where you were just like, why are you looking through that suitcase like Alexis is going to walk in? Why are you going into the abandoned cabin while Nick is in there with Olena? But all of the decisions she made were both calculated and helped her get to her end goal. Right?

[Emily]

Yes. And also Trevor was the one with Alina.

[Ashley]

But I'm so bad. There's too many characters. I need a spreadsheet.

[Emily]

I think you also read.

[Ashley]

You.

[Emily]

You and I read so differently. I like savor and read slow. And you read for J. Right. Like, that's why you didn't even remember or read the part that Magnus stabbed her.

[Ashley]

I think I read it and just forgot it. It's been four days since I finished the book.

[Emily]

But yes, she also. She also is. She was smart. And those things that she was doing, where she was going through the suitcase, whatever, though, those seem like dangerous or risky decisions. And yes, I guess they classified. Would be classified as. So this is her history. Right. She had such a horrifying trauma watching her mom die, almost dying. Her herself being left for dead by a monster man at 5 years old.

[Ashley]

She.

[Emily]

And then being horribly abused emotionally and physically by her foster parents or adopted parents. And then to go on and pick a little. I don't know, pick a little risky behavior seemed really logical and normal. And hers was taking tokens, taking little trinkets. Right. So she was good at that. She was used to going through people's stuff.

[Ashley]

That's true. And.

[Emily]

And she was in the cabin before Trevor and Alena came in.

[Ashley]

True. And she. I mean, once she went into the cabin and saw the dragonfly stuff in the picture, there's no stopping you then. There is no. You're like, there's. There's a reason I'm here and I've been here before, and I can feel it. And you just wouldn't be able to stop until you got to the answers.

[Emily]

Yes. The only thing is, I can't help but think. Wanting the answers, but also like hiding the birthmarks better. Lots of turtlenecks. I know she had packed a minimal amount, but she had at least one thing that was a turtleneck. And I don't know. I think I would be really scared to be found out.

[Ashley]

I would too. I think I would have tried to leave beforehand because after that people tried to kill her multiple times.

[Emily]

Oh, My gosh. Yeah. I really liked it. It was a good book.

[Ashley]

Can I ask you. You might not know about this because, you know, I understand kind of what you do and kind of not when it comes to repressed memories. Because that's a part of this book, right? That. Yeah. And this is a real thing. Like when you have such trauma as a child, you repress those. Right. So this is. This is a real thing that can happen.

[Emily]

Yes. And I wouldn't call them. They're not necessarily repressed. Maybe they are repressed. Makes it sound like sort of an intentional sometimes act or people want to think of it as that like my maybe or just like my body didn't want me to remember this. Here's the thing. What's believable about this? Like she didn't entirely forget it all. She had some access to some of it. Right. Came to her through dreams. She knew there was something there. Obviously when she was young, she never went through any processing of that trauma. But she talked about teddy bear all the time and wanted her teddy bear after that. So it's not like she forgot her whole past. But I would challenge people to tell me how much they remember of being five and under anyway. So very little. And I don't remember much of those years. I have little snippets of like, is that a memory? Is that a memory? And most of it isn't. It's just a feeling or of that I was cared for. I. I'm sure you know, I know what my childhood looked like in terms of like the home I lived in. But I also lived there after five. So that. That those early years before being five, you have so few memories in the first place. We often our brain does do us a favor of suppressing, I suppose, memories that of trauma.

[Ashley]

Yeah. And I would say the memories I think I have quotes around think are from seeing photographs.

[Emily]

Exactly.

[Ashley]

Being told stories. I'm like, oh yeah. I remember playing soccer in the grass outside of my house with Becky across the street. And I'm like, I actually don't remember that. But I've been told that that's what I did. So I think I remember it right.

[Emily]

Like preschool. I feel like I have a memory that's like a snapshot of like what it looked like in there or like a snapshot of the track. Like the little car that was cool. But we were talking pre kindergarten.

[Ashley]

Yeah. I didn't even think about that. I just thought she. These are like post traumatic memories that she doesn't have until they get triggered by Something. And then we've all been there. Right? It's like. It's almost like deja vu where you're like, wait, I feel like I've been here before. I feel like there's a reason I'm seeing this. And she just wrote it so brilliantly.

[Emily]

Yeah, it was fun. I definitely did not get the vibes of like fugue state or anything unbelievable like that of dissociations. It's much more like believable. That a five year old would try. Their brain would not want to have memory of looking at their dead mother.

[Ashley]

I was just gonna say that then it was heartbreaking as she did start to remember things, to hear how it happened. And seeing her mom. You know, when you're a kid, you don't. I don't think you really realize if someone's alive or dead unless it's very obvious. And just seeing her mom's legs laying out and she was laying a weird way. That was hard. That was hard to read.

[Emily]

Yeah. That was really sad. I really thought that the twist of it being that Liam was hiding Melody. Melody, yeah. Because Nick was her boyfriend and was beating her and threatening to kill not only Melody, but Rowan as well. That, you know, that really was sad to me. Sad that Rose had this life then of thinking that her husband had killed himself and had been having an affair and sent away this woman. And just. It was sad that Alexis had believed that forever. And it was all this horrible, horrible man.

[Ashley]

Nick. Um, I just looked. I was like, Melody. Mallory.

[Emily]

Mallory.

[Ashley]

Mallory.

[Emily]

I knew it wasn't quite right. I could tell.

[Ashley]

I was just gonna ask you if you ever thought it was Nick, because I didn't. I fully was like, the dad's having an affair. He's keeping his mistress up there, as maybe rich people do. So then to have it be Nick, who turned out to be a really bad guy was a huge shock.

[Emily]

Oh, yeah. I don't know. I think I thought it was all of them at a different time. And I was like, oh, it's definitely gonna have been a woman. Which isn't my favorite when the twist is that a woman did it. So I'm glad that even though Alexis is the one that shot the gun, I'm glad it wasn't fully Alexis because it's just less believable to me.

[Ashley]

And when Alexis did, she was 15, right?

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

In the book, I was. I was thinking about that with a 15 year old myself and about how you just don't have this fully formed brain and how that doesn't Give you a reason to kill anyone. But how upsetting it would be if you thought this was happening with your dad and he was hurting your mother in this way. And you just make these extremely reckless decisions, not thinking about the consequences.

[Emily]

Right.

[Ashley]

Which also then leads us to a bigger discussion about the super wealthy, like in the last one at the wedding and Anna killing cold and families we've heard of who really do get away with murder and other horrific crimes because they have the means to either cover them up or figure out a way out of them.

[Emily]

It's interesting because this book made me think again about why super wealthy people seem to be lack morality. They lose the thread of morality and right and wrong and in any, in any sense. And I thought, oh, you know, this is. I think in general people think, oh, well, if I was really wealthy, I would just want to do more helping of people. And there are people who do that, right? There are people who do that who spend a lot of their money actually giving it away. But there has to be something there that comes with having so much money that over time you somehow do lose the thread of what normal morality is. Because how can you be these people who are willing to cover up a murder to protect one of their own and throw away a child, and then when it comes down to it, they're willing to kill the next another person to keep covering it up. How do you get there? And maybe that's not realistic, but I don't know. I think about people like Elon Musk, who by the way, public record for the last three years has not made the minimum donation in charitable donations from his nonprofit. The minimum 5% of his. Sorry, of his foundation. His foundation is required to give. Any foundation is required to give 5% in charitable donations per year. And he has done less than that for three years in a row. How can you have so much money and be so completely bereft of any kind of thought of any other humans, right?

[Ashley]

Like why, why does having that amount of money then make you lose the like compassion, empathy for humans and the human condition. The grandma even says it in the book. She even says, well, we need to protect the family. When she's talking about not turning Alexis in and when she's talking about paying her off, she's like, well, we can't ruin our family name and the business will go away. And we do have a real life example of this. We do. The Murdoch family. I told you I was bring this up. The Murdoch, Alec Murdoch, his son killed a girl in a boat crash. Never Saw a day of. A day of jail. I mean, Alec killed him before he was going to go on trial for that. But his son killed a girl in a boat crash. He killed their housekeeper. He stole millions of dollars from people. And this went along for a decade, if not longer, of just getting away with stuff because they had the resources and the means to do so, and literally killing people in their path and getting away with it because these people had less money to fight back. They had no voices, they had no resources. And the Murdoch family is this extremely powerful family who wanted to protect their name. I'm like, this reminds me so much of the extremes that people will go to to keep money in the, in the bank and protect their quote, unquote, good family name.

[Emily]

Yep. Here's the thing. It just is so disgusting when people have that much money. I'm all for people getting plenty of money, but we are not talking about people here who have $5 million or like three vacation homes and, you know, they go alternate between them and take all their friends. We are not talking about the people who have a little bit of wealth. These are people with such vast wealth that they could make significant change for others. Right. And instead they harbor all of that money. I want to talk about, because you said you were going to talk about Murdoch. I want to talk about a man who made millions and was an actual philanthropist. Okay? So there's someone called, named Harris Rosen. He died in November of last year, sadly, a real true loss. He founded Rosen Hotels and Resorts in 1974. And so he bought a bunch of hotels over the. A lot of years. And in 1973, I think he purchased his first hotel, and then he created the chain of hotels and he started buying a bunch of them. He made a ton of money. Okay? He's. His company was valued at over $500 million as of last year. So this guy had plenty of money. You know, what he did with. I don't know how much of that money got to him. You know, that's the valuation of his business. But here's what I can tell you is he created in 1993 the Tangelo park program. And this was basically a really poor neighborhood in Orlando. And we can. I'll give you a link to one of the articles that I read. There's multiple articles that I looked at here. And he basically provided college scholarships or scholarships to trade schools for all residents of this neighborhood. And he gave free daycare. So. And he did with the college scholarships, room, board, books, tuition for any of them who wanted to go to any kind of trade school, vocational school, or college in the state of Florida. He also gave money to preschools and daycares for all free for the entire neighborhood. Um, he funded, like, spring break where he had people. I can't remember exactly. He did something where he would actually have people come, like as interns and help with this neighborhood. Right. So he, like, funded a spring break, an alternative spring break for college students to come and do service work in this neighborhood. And guess what happened? Guess what happened from him doing that?

[Ashley]

I feel like something good.

[Emily]

You won't believe it. The co. The high school graduation rate went from 25% to close to 100% in that neighborhood. Crime decreased dramatically. It became a productive neighborhood with people who were able to make it. It turns out that handouts to poor folks, help supporting their future goals, supporting their education, supporting their access to work through basic needs like childcare and care, actually made people capable of doing what they needed to do to succeed.

[Ashley]

You're telling me that handouts don't just make people more lazy as we have been? As people try to say it's crazy.

[Emily]

Because we have these examples. We have these examples where he. He did this. He gave out free lunches to kids at schools. And guess what? They didn't. You know what those are? You know, when he gave these people bootstraps, he gave them the bootstraps and they pulled themselves up by it. But the whole, I shouldn't have to pay you for anything. Guess what? You are. Because you're paying for them to spend time in prison. You're paying for criminals to have to go through the system for the courts. You think you don't pay for the courts, you pay for the courts. This is the dumbing down of America. The lack of education where people's feelings matter more than facts. And people are like, these people are sucking our resources out of the prisons. We should put them on death row. Death row costs more dummies. Death row costs more. They're sucking our taxes and costing us a lot of money. Don't put them on death row then. But this is the problem is that we are unwilling to actually get educated about anything. So we just use our feelers. I don't want a poor kid taking my tax money. I would rather my tax money go to cuts for billionaires is what I'm gathering it. Just hearing this story, reading a Killing Cold, I was so angry about, just like how entitled the wealthy have gotten. And then reading about this guy, reading about this Harris Rosen, that everyone should look up and what he did and how effective it was made me so sad that we as a country are so accepting of the uber wealthy hoarding.

[Ashley]

Their money 100% and that somehow a certain percentage of the population has been, what I would say, brainwashed into believing somehow if they. If they do what you're saying and don't help people below them, the people above them are going to help them. That's not how it works. Nobody who is ultra wealthy is worried about you. They're worried about staying wealthy, just like in the book. They are worried about protecting themselves. So why wouldn't you take any extra resources, energy, time, effort? You have to help people who don't have as much as you do, because it's going to make us all better for a second. Because in part of the book, I think the grandma literally says to Theo, like, you can't be a part of our family because you're not part of our, like, stock. Like, we don't want producing. We need to get our eyes on you because we need to know where you came from because we need you to breed with him. It's like. Anyway, that part blew my mind. Just like you're not worried about if they're in love, if they're compatible, you're worried about if she's going to contribute to continuing the wealth and. And name of your family.

[Emily]

I know, it's crazy. It is sick. Ugh.

[Ashley]

One more thing. Just about the book that I did love were the Christmas ornaments on the tree. I don't want to not talk about those with every secret, right? Like, they had pictures of people and their deepest, darkest secrets. And I just thought that was a really creative way to kind of out people and what their. Their secrets were. Although I liked that Alexis was like, palma already knows. We've been through this.

[Emily]

Aren't they all so sick that, like, there's these three siblings and the two and the one parent, and then the two grandparents and the. And the uncle, right? There's. There's a lot of people, a lot of family members, and every single one of them, Magnus and Louise, the grandparents, were obviously horrendous. Louise was the most wanting everyone dead, and Magnus did the killing. Nick was the most brutal and horrible one who killed everybody and was really dangerous. Alexis shot her, shot her dad's mistress, or so she thought, in the neck. And then was like, covered it up, helped cover it up forever, and then cheated on her wife. And then Trevor put up the photographs of everyone after his, and because he didn't like answering to the fact that he got a DUI where he crashed and injured somebody, that they paid off, of course. I mean, Connor was the only one that came out of it unscathed in that way.

[Ashley]

Yeah. Just the secrets of these families and what they're able to get away with. It seems like such a simple, fun book, like Trapped in the Snow. Who did it? And then you read it and you're like, this is such a commentary on everything that's wrong with wealth in America. And probably not just America, but that's our personal experience.

[Emily]

It's the problem with wealth everywhere. You know, you see things like. You see these numbers, sometimes it'll say that, you know, the Climate Council has said that it would take $650 billion to fully reverse the effects of climate change. And then it'll show a statistic that's like, the top 20 richest people in the world could do that and still would have more money, way more money than that. Like, they could each contribute 20% of their money and it would take care of it. It's like. It's like. It's just gross how wealthy some people have gotten and then what they choose to do with that money and where it goes and then how. I don't know why they become like, the who, the Murdaughs.

[Ashley]

Right. If it's a fear of losing your money and your status once you have it, so you just forget about people. I don't know. I want to believe you. You wouldn't. I mean, if you had all that money, I would know. Just because you might. You might get a new rug for your house, but you wouldn't treat people like shit.

[Emily]

I wouldn't.

[Ashley]

I.

[Emily]

Maybe I would because I. I've never had that level of money, but I. I mean, I'm in the income bracket where I'm like, who would spend $20,000 on a purse like that? Makes me feel sick to my stomach, like, you're just an idiot, you know, I do.

[Ashley]

I do want to make sure we talk about how the book is not without a little bit of violence. I. I love that she went there and when she stabbed Nick in the throat, remember, she said, basically, like I remembered, you have to. I don't even remember what she said, but she's like, I remembered from stabbing Joseph, who didn't die, that, like, you have to get in there.

[Emily]

Well, it's because she stabbed Joseph in the. Tried to stab him in the heart.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Emily]

So she said, you can't go for the heart. I learned that because there's too many Bones in the way.

[Ashley]

There was, there were a bunch of things Theo said that were borderline like, oh, not creepy, but she just kind of went there in the book. There's definitely some, some violence throughout.

[Emily]

She's a survivor, man.

[Ashley]

Yeah, that's the word I was looking for.

[Emily]

Well, let's talk about something about if you did have, let's say you had $10 million, Ashley, what would you do with your $10 million? Oh, buy a $20,000 purse. Then what do you think the fact.

[Ashley]

That I can't even think of anything means? Like, I think I'm doing okay. Like, I wouldn't, I like my car. I wouldn't get a new car. I would, I would make sure my mom is debt free. I would probably buy a different house just because I would like a room to hide from my family. And then I'd ask you if you needed anything. And then I'd give, give it away to people and wrong a little bit for retirement. Right?

[Emily]

Well, you'd have to. First you'd have to buy us our sun river house for our headquarters.

[Ashley]

I'd buy us our business house in center. But like, I would, you know, what would you got $10 million. You wouldn't do anything bonkers. You wouldn't.

[Emily]

Oh, I would do, I would do a big renovation of my downstairs floor plan. So that's 200k.

[Ashley]

Hey, you still have 9 million. I'm not even gonna try and do.

[Emily]

The math of the other nine million. I'd get a twenty thousand dollar purse.

[Ashley]

And then you'd leave it on the roof of your car and drive away and be like, dang it.

[Emily]

Dang it. I would, yeah. It would be so cool to do some meaningful things, wouldn't it?

[Ashley]

Yes. I mean, that's what, that's what you would do. I know you. And that's what I would do. I would look at how, what's the greatest impact I could. Actually, I'd probably give it all away day one. And Ben would be like, why didn't we even talk about this?

[Emily]

And you'd be like, mo money, mo problems. Because it's true. I, I really think I'm like, I would just be like, okay, let's pay off our house. Let's buy a Sun river house. Maybe we buy a little condo at the beach. And then let's, let's get rid of the rest. Let's put it away in trust or something for the kids. I mean, $10 million isn't enough money to think crazy things. That's what I, I, I'M sure I would go through it quickly with like just trying to set up future generations and you know, our charitable donations and whatever for the year. So. It's not like that. Cuz what I was going to ask next is $10 million. Sure, you have a plan, but what if you had $300 million?

[Ashley]

Oh, I don't even.

[Emily]

So that's, that's different, right?

[Ashley]

I like, you can't even. I don't even know. I'd have to hire someone who knows what to do, right? Yeah, right.

[Emily]

I'd be like, who does it? Do I know anyone who needs a car? Does anyone need a purse?

[Ashley]

I would end up going to jail because I would do stuff with it without asking. I'd be like, I opened an abortion clinic in my garage, but I have a doctor and I'm paying her. They'd be like, you can't do that. I do want to talk with the author. I hope she says yes. I wrote to her today only because when we talked with Jason Rakulik and he said we could say this, he said he had seen authors who he knew and then they did become very famous and very wealthy. And he point blank said they, they changed. He's like, I have personal experience with the characters I was writing in this book because I have seen people change who you wouldn't think would.

[Emily]

Well, what are you gonna ask the author? If it was her? If she, if he was talking about her?

[Ashley]

No, but I wanna ask her like, how did she research the ultra wealthy? Because you have to have done something. But I just thought it was interesting when we asked Jason that and he was like, well, I actually have personal experience with these types of people.

[Emily]

That's amazing. I feel like I don't really like or relate to books about the ultra wealthy, but both of these books, I liked, the last one at the wedding and this one.

[Ashley]

Completely agree. But I think it's because of what we're talking about. It's a really pointed or a really well painted picture about kind of horrific things that can come with wealth and how it can change people.

[Emily]

Yeah. How you become devoid of, devoid of empathy, I don't know.

[Ashley]

On that note.

[Emily]

Well, bye.

[Ashley]

Thanks for listening.

[Emily]

For more content, find us on Patreon at the Creepy book club.

[Ashley]

Happy reading.