Kyron Horman - Missing since 06/04/2010

Summary

Summary of "Books With Your Besties" Podcast Episode: Kyron Horman - Missing since 06/04/2010

Released on April 25, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling true crime episode of "Books With Your Besties," hosts Emily and Ashley delve into the mysterious disappearance of Kyron Horman, a young boy who vanished from Portland, Oregon, on June 4, 2010. Both hosts have personal ties to the area—Emily was teaching in the school district where Kyron disappeared, and Ashley resided in Southwest Portland. Their familiarity with the locale adds depth and personal insight to the discussion.

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Background of Kyron Horman

Kyron Richard Horman was born on September 9, 2002, to Desiree Young and Cain Horman in Portland, Oregon. His parents had a tumultuous relationship, ultimately deciding to co-parent after Desiree filed for divorce in August 2002 due to irreconcilable differences. Desiree later faced kidney failure, necessitating treatment in Canada, which led her to relinquish custody of Kyron temporarily.

To ensure Kyron's care during Desiree's absence, Terry Moulton—a friend of Desiree with a background in teaching—moved in with Cain Horman and Kyron. Over time, Terry and Cain developed a romantic relationship, culminating in their marriage in 2007 and the birth of their daughter, Kiera.

“Cain and Desiree, his biological parents, loved him very deeply and it's unknown much else than that,” Emily reflects at [02:44].

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The Day Kyron Went Missing

On June 4, 2010, Kyron was taken to Skyline Elementary School by his stepmother, Terry Horman, to participate in the school's science fair and talent show. Terry last saw Kyron walking toward his classroom around 8:45 AM ([04:12]).

Kyron was never seen in his class and was marked absent that day. The open nature of the school day, with approximately 400 people in the building, made tracking students challenging. Ashley notes, “At these kinds of school events there's less rigid tracking often of who's coming and going” ([03:35]).

Investigation and Timeline

Kyron's absence wasn't immediately flagged; his homeroom teacher, Christina Porter, marked him absent without further concern. It wasn't until the end of the school day when Terry returned home with their daughter, Kiera, that the gravity of the situation became apparent.

At 3:30 PM, Cain discovered Kyron was missing when Kyron failed to show up for pickup. A 911 call was made at 4:00 PM, initiating a massive search effort involving Portland Police Bureau, Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, and FBI involvement.

Emily highlights the chaotic nature of the initial search: “Day one ends, he's not found. Super sad finish to that day.” ([16:51])

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The Role of Terry Horman

Terry Horman, the last person to see Kyron, became the primary focus of the investigation. Several suspicious activities raised red flags:

• Doctor's Appointment Miscommunication: Terry informed the school that Kyron had a doctor's appointment on June 4th, which she later claimed was scheduled for the following Friday. This discrepancy led to the school not escalating concerns about his absence ([07:50]).

  “Terry was able to bring Kyron to school, establish his presence there, and then perhaps take him away.” Ashley explains ([07:50]).

• Inconsistent Alibis: Terry was seen at two different Fred Meyer stores around 10:00 AM, with a timestamped receipt from Starbucks at 9:12 AM. Later, she was spotted checking into a gym at 11:39 AM ([04:13]).

• Social Media Activity: At 1:21 PM, Terry posted photos of Kyron from the science fair on Facebook while she was supposed to attend his talent show, where both were absent ([12:04]).

• Sexting Behavior: Four days after filing for divorce, Terry was found sexting with her husband's high school friend, Michael Cook, while Kyron was still missing ([37:06]).

Notably, during the investigation, Terry underwent two polygraph tests. Ashley points out the limitations of polygraphs, stating, “She's being deceptive. But polygraphs are not reliable... they are fallible.” ([23:03])

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Theories and Suspects

The hosts explore various theories surrounding Kyron's disappearance:

1. Kidnapping by Someone They Know: Given the rarity of stranger abductions, the focus remains on individuals close to Kyron, primarily Terry Horman.

2. Terry and Dee Spicer's Involvement: Dee Spicer, a friend of Terry, entered the investigation when she signed an immunity deal, providing potentially incriminating information. Desiree Young alleges that cell phone data links Terry and Dee to the disappearance, but procedural barriers hinder prosecution ([29:35]).

   “Everything pointing to that,” Emily emphasizes ([44:44]).

3. Online Theories: Communities like Websleuths and Reddit propose that Kyron may have wandered into the woods or fallen into water, possibly seeking his beloved frog project. However, these theories lack substantial evidence and are overshadowed by the mounting circumstantial evidence against Terry.

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Online Theories vs. Evidence

Emily and Ashley discuss the disparity between popular online theories and the evidence pointing towards Terry Horman:

• Wandering Off: While plausible, this theory is less supported compared to the suspicious activities Terry exhibited on the day Kyron went missing.

• Stranger Abduction: Extremely rare and not corroborated by significant evidence, reducing its credibility.

The hosts express concern over unfounded rumors, such as reports of Kyron interacting with a mysterious man, which lack verification and responsible sourcing.

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Current Status and Ongoing Efforts

As of the episode's release, Kyron Horman remains missing. Despite extensive searches and shifting the case to a criminal investigation, no definitive answers have emerged. Desiree and Cain Horman continue to advocate for renewed investigations, hoping that new avenues, such as reevaluating Dee Spicer's information, might yield breakthroughs.

Emily and Ashley commend Kyron's parents for their relentless pursuit of answers, highlighting community efforts like charity runs and annual fundraisers to support ongoing searches ([40:43]).

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Conclusion and Appeal

Wrapping up the episode, Emily and Ashley emphasize the importance of keeping Kyron's case in the public eye. They encourage listeners with any information to contact the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, providing contact details in the show notes.

Ashley states, “We want to keep this story out there for everyone... You just never know who might be listening and who might have some information that can help the case.” ([45:42])

The hosts also hint at future content, mentioning their Patreon-exclusive episode on the Delphi murders in Indiana, urging listeners to support their ongoing investigative efforts.

“We are going to be covering the case of Abby Williams and Libby German and the Delphi murders in Indiana.” Emily adds ([46:53]).

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Emily [02:44]: “Cain and Desiree, his biological parents, loved him very deeply and it's unknown much else than that.”

• Ashley [03:35]: “At these kinds of school events there's less rigid tracking often of who's coming and going.”

• Emily [04:12]: “Kyron was planning on participating in both events, the science fair and the talent show.”

• Ashley [07:50]: “Terry was able to bring Kyron to school, establish his presence there, and then perhaps take him away.”

• Ashley [23:03]: “She's being deceptive. But polygraphs are not reliable... they are fallible.”

• Emily [44:44]: “Everything pointing to that.”

• Ashley [45:42]: “We want to keep this story out there for everyone... You just never know who might be listening and who might have some information that can help the case.”

• Emily [46:53]: “We are going to be covering the case of Abby Williams and Libby German and the Delphi murders in Indiana.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode of "Books With Your Besties" meticulously unpacks the perplexing disappearance of Kyron Horman, blending thorough research with personal reflections. Emily and Ashley balance skepticism with empathy, presenting a narrative that underscores the complexities of true crime investigations. Their dedication to shedding light on Kyron's case exemplifies the podcast's commitment to deep, thoughtful discussions on gripping real-life mysteries.

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For more detailed discussions and additional content, consider supporting "Books With Your Besties" on Patreon.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, besties. We are back this week with something different and new. So welcome to our true crime episode. Today we are talking about the case of a missing child in Portland, Oregon, Kyron Horman. He went missing June 4, 2010. Emily and I were both in Portland when he went missing. I was teaching in the school district where he went missing and Emily was living in Southwest Portland. Today we will talk about the circumstances surrounding his disappearance and where things are with the case. We picked this case because it's local to us and we want to shine a light on it.

[B]

Yeah, this was one that we both think about a lot. So let's start with some background before we jump into the day he went missing. We're gonna look back at his family situation, his life prior, just to get a sense of who he is, who his family was and set the scene. Kyron Richard Horman was born September 9, 2002 in Portland, Oregon to Desiree Young and Cain Horman. Cain and Desiree had decided to split earlier, but when they learned they were pregnant, they thought, let's give this another shot. In August 2002, when Desiree was eight months pregnant, she filed for divorce. Citing irreconcilable differences, they gave it their best try. It didn't work out for them, but they agreed to co parent. According to Lynn Terry of the Oregonian, though, Desiree had kidney failure and ended up needing to leave for Canada to get treatments and so she relinquished her custody rights of Kyron. Thereafter. She was certainly involved with Kyron. She didn't disappear on him. But she went to go and get her treatments and was still very much in communic. As Desiree left the country, childcare was needed for Kyron. So her friend Terry Moulton moved in with Kane and Kyron along with her 16 year old son from a previous marriage to help take care of Kyron during the day while Cain was at work. Terri was trained as a teacher and had a master's in teaching. Though she had never actually had a teaching job. She had done some substitute teaching, so she was obviously interested in being with kids. She was a friend to Desiree. Terri and Kane continued to stay under the same roof because he was working and what started as a caregiving relationship turned romantic. They became involved with each other, shared a lot of the same interests, including bodybuilding. In 2007, they got married. Shortly after they were married, they got pregnant and had a daughter they named Kiera. What we do see from these is clearly Cain and Desiree, his biological parents, loved him very deeply and it's unknown much else than that. Right. So just trying to get a picture of his young life and what that might have been like for him.

[A]

So from 2007 until when Kyron went missing in 2010, Kane and Terry were married, living in Portland together and Desiree was in Medford. Moving on to the sad day that Kyron Horman went missing. On June 4, 2010, Kyron was taken to Skyline Elementary School by his stepmother Terry Moulton, who was Terry Horman. She stayed with him while he attended the science fair and Terry stated she left the school around 8:45am and that she last remembered seeing Chiron walking down the hall to his class around 150ft away. Chiron was never seen in his class and was instead marked absent that day on the date he went missing. Skyline elementary open early so students and parents can tour the science fair. They do that at my kids school too. Like they'll you can go in view it classes don't start till 10. It's actually really fun. I love when they do that.

[B]

And just to also note at these kinds of school events there's less rigid tracking often of who's coming and going.

[A]

Yeah, it was reported that there were like 400 people in the building so the hallways were absolutely packed. So it would be really hard to notice who who was there and who wasn't there. As a teacher I laughed because at the beginning of the day there was a science fair. At the end of the day there was a talent show and Kyron was planning on particip in both events, the science fair and the talent show. As a teacher I thought this is a great day, you don't have to do much teaching. Your kids are just going to have a fantastic day.

[B]

So fun for them.

[A]

At 8:45, Terry said she left after watching Kyron walk towards his classroom. And the, the now I'd say most famous photo of Kyron which was put out soon after he went missing is his adorable picture from the science fair with his glasses and his smile. And he was so proud of the frog project he had done. So we have a timestamped photo of him being at the science fair at School. At 9:15am Terri is seen at Fred Meyer with her toddler Kiara. And Kiera appears to be sick and Terry's looking for earache medication. Fred Meyer is a chain of stores that we have here in Oregon. You can find one about every 10 to 15 miles. She has a timestamped receipt from Starbucks that reads 9:12am so we know that Terry was there while Kyron was still supposedly at School at 10am Terry Horman is seen at a different Fred Meyer. We've all been there, right? Where you go to one store, they don't have what you need, so you go to another store. There's some, there's some information out there that said potentially it was a prescription. But from what I could find, it was just a generic earache medication. And the first Freddy's didn't have it. So she went to the next Fred Meyer to try to locate it. And she ran into someone who knew her there and showed her some pictures of Kyron from the science fair that morning and had a conversation. So Terry was seen at two different Fred Meyers at 10am Classes begin at school. So remember, school open early, science fair is happening at 10am it's like time to start school at some point and we're not sure when. There's not a timestamp of this. Kyron's homeroom teacher, Christina Porter, reports him as absent.

[B]

Okay, Ashley, when we were researching this case, this was something that came up for both of us that we kept asking questions about. How was Kyron marked absent? And then nobody notified or no other kind of concern arose. Because what we know, just to jump ahead to the timeline is nobody discovered that he was missing then until it was time to pick him up from school. So he was marked absent by his teacher. And very quickly we found in our research that there was all kinds of confusion around a doctor's appointment. I found a really great video that is from CBS news where Bruce McCain, who was a former captain of the Multnomah County Sheriff's Department, weighed in as an expert as to what was going on in this case around this absence and why there was confusion around a doctor's note in speaking with Erica Hill. So you're going to listen to a one minute clip from this video. I think they summarize it really well and then we can kind of break it down a little bit further. Joining us now from Portland, Oregon, is attorney Bruce McCain. He's a former captain in the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. He retired just last year. Good to have you with us this morning. Well, thank you, Erica, for having me. There are new reports out that Terry Horman told her stepson Kyron's teachers on the morning he disappeared that he had a doctor's appointment later that day. She claims she said she alerted them to the appointment, which was going to happen the following Friday. I know you look at that information, you say there's Something that doesn't work here? Well, yeah, it's actually quite significant because this was actually the last day of school. So a doctor's appointment the following Friday would have been pretty irrelevant to the school. But the critical thing about this June 4th doctor's appointment is that that put the school in the position of not being concerned at all that Karen was not in his class, wasn't at lunch, and wasn't on the bus that afternoon. So it looks like, at least this point, Terry was able to bring Kyron to school, establish his presence there, and then perhaps take him away.

[A]

These.

[B]

That's the. That's the theory they're working on without the school picking up the phone and calling Kane at work, for example. Okay, so you can hear from that. Terry told the school that Kyron was going to have a doctor's appointment that day and then claimed later that it was actually the following Friday. However, this was the last day of school, so there would have been no need for her to call in a doctor's appointment that was the following Friday. This is suspic. Right.

[A]

There's hearsay out there that there was also a note left the same day from Terri on the teacher's desk saying, reminder, Kyron is not going to be here for a few hours in the morning. He's going to a doctor's appointment. So all of this is highly suspicious.

[B]

Totally. And even though we couldn't really verify the actual note that was written that day, through our research, we. It came up a few times in news articles. So it's a little bit confusing as to exactly how the entire doctor's appointment thing played out. But we do have some good evidence that there was clearly confusion around it, which is why the school didn't call anybody.

[A]

And nowadays we have an automated system, which in part happened because of this. So it's so confusing for parents today to think, my child, if. If my child's tardy, I get a phone call or a text from the school. So it's hard to think there was a time where it didn't happen automatically when he was marked absent. And we're also talking a lot about Terry because Terry was the last one to see him. Kane's at work, we know this has been established. And Desiree is in Southern Oregon, so we're focusing on Terry because she's the last one to have seen him. So what happened after she left the school? Terry claims she drove around after going to the two Fred Meyers from 10:10 until around 11:39am to soothe her daughter. This is relatable because my kids also absolutely thrived in their car seats. When they were sick and tired, I would drive them around. I'm like that mom to mom. That feels like something I would do.

[B]

Can I just ask here too? This is pre traffic cameras, right? So we couldn't find her on any cameras anywhere driving around or establish that. And like pre ring doorbells that you couldn't go find her driving past people's homes. Okay.

[A]

And Terry claims that there was a dry cleaning stop at some point, but there's no time stamp, there's no cameras, there's no, there's no evidence that that actually happened. So the only evidence we have is that she then checks in to 24 Hour Fitness. So, you know, you have your little key fob, you check in. So at 11:39, Terry checked in at 24 Hour Fitness in Beaverton and she worked out for about an hour. 11:40 to 12:40. At 1:00pm, the talent show starts at Skyline. So remember, Kyron was stoked. I don't know what he was doing. I kind of wish we knew what he was performing in the talent show, but he was stoked because he had his frog project in the science fair and now he was going to be in the talent show. A friend in the audience notes that Terry and Kyron are both not there, which seems obviously strange. And the talent show went from 1pm until the end of school until 2.45pm so at 1.21pm, when Kyron is supposed to be performing and Terry said she was going to be there, she posts photos of Kyron at the science fair on her Facebook page. She posted the pictures that she took of him earlier that day. Some people noted that Terry rarely posted photos of Kyron on her Facebook, that they were all of Kiara, and that this one day she posted a photo of Kyron the day he went missing. And why wasn't she at the talent show? And you and I talked a little bit about this. Yes, you could kind of read into that. But also I have pictures of one of my kiddos a lot more than I do of the other kiddo on Facebook, just because he's not that interested in being on my social media. So I'm not sure. I think being on Facebook at 1:20pm when you said you were going to be at the talent shows, a little bit fishy, but I'm not sure about the pictures. What do you, what do you think?

[B]

Well, I mean, it certainly doesn't help her case that she was supposed to go watch him in the talent show and didn't. But to give her the benefit of the doubt here, she had a sick child who she'd been driving around in the car and who knows, maybe Kira was absolutely inconsolable and screaming and she's sitting there on her phone scrolling and. Right. Were there cell phones in 2010?

[A]

Maybe. Maybe.

[B]

I can't even remember. How terrible is that? Like, I don't. Did we have smartphones by then? What? How old?

[A]

Facebook. We were using Facebook in some way. Shape. Shape or form?

[B]

Okay, well, we had. Maybe she was popped on because she was just, you know, miserable at home with her daughter and she just thought, I cannot take this baby to the talent show. I just, I just think it's possible there's another explanation, but it certainly isn't helpful that that day she no showed.

[A]

So it's reported that Kane could do some of his work from home. So at 1:45, Kane ends his work day and prepares to leave to come home and work for a while in his home office. So he comes home and Terry is there. He works until 3:30, at which time he puts Kiara's shoes on so they can walk to the bus stop to get Kyron. I just thought that was adorable and relatable. Like I remember taking my youngest to go down to the bus stop and he'd be so excited. So at 3:30, Terry and Kane go to meet the school bus and discover Kyron has been absent all day. And the bus driver tells them that Kyron isn't on the bus at this time. The parents run back home to get to the car. And I know, Em, you and I talked about this. We know that feeling, that gut feeling of when you think, what do you mean that my kid's not on the bus? Where. Where is he? What do you mean he's not there? And they get in the car to drive to school, probably assuming he just missed the bus and it's going to still be at school.

[B]

I, I don't think I could even possibly know how panicked they would be because anytime I've lost my kid, it's been for like 30 seconds, you know, just because they were standing behind someone or something. And I was like, oh my gosh. But this must have been absolutely gut.

[A]

Wrenching and terrifying when you have that initial burst of. I don't know if it's adrenaline. It's something when you think you don't know where your child is. And the fact that it lasted long enough to have to get in the car and go to school and then to get to the school and discover he is not there. So they go to the school. Kiren is not there. At 4pm The Skyline School secretary, Susan hall, places a call to 911 about Kyron being missing. The 911 call is then dispatched to police units. Immediately after this, Desiree Young, Kyron's biological mom, is contacted by Susan Hall, Skyline School secretary. She's told Kyron is missing. And we've talked about Desiree being about four, four and a half hours away from the scene in Oregon. She immediately gets in her car to come to Portland to help look for her son. She tells the police that she hung up and called Terry. I think, as any of us would do, to just be like, what? What is happening? She tells people that Terri's reaction was strain, strange, and her gut instinct told her that something was, was not right with how she was responding to her questions. From 4:30 to 5:30pm Officers from Portland Police Bureau and Multnomah County Sheriff's Office send out a blast message to all parents saying Kyron Horman did not arrive at home today. None of us can say what we would do in this scenario at all, and I hope that we never have to. But at 6:30pm Terry is back on Facebook playing a game called Treasure Aisle while everybody else is frantically looking for Kyron. And this information is logged on her Facebook page that she was playing a game. But we talked about this, Em. There's. I don't know what I would do. So I feel like I can't take that piece of information and do much with it.

[B]

No. And also, okay, I think my part of my job here is just to provide skepticism no matter what. Right. And that's something good to do when you're researching true crime. So that's what we've been prepared to be like. Well, let me just think through this tiny piece of evidence. Maybe she really needed a break and she was completely overwhelmed and freaking out. And she was trying to take a minute to eat her dinner and just take 20 minutes to play a game and like check out for a moment so she could gather herself. We don't know. And it's hard to imagine, I will say, to give a lot of credit to her in terms of being a mastermind who disappeared her stepson that day. If that's what happened, then she certainly wasn't behaving in a way that she thought that they would be pulling data like this from her computer, if that makes sense. So she certainly wasn't worried that they would identify that she was playing a game on Facebook at that time and look at that in a suspicious way. So maybe it gives some credit to that. She truly just sort of like someone else might sit down and be like, I'm just gonna scroll Instagram for a second. Or, I just need a minute. I'm gonna lay on my bed and Watch a. Watch 20 minutes of my show. She maybe just was like, I am beside myself and I'm gonna sit down for a minute.

[A]

So back to the day he went missing. That night from 7 to 10pm they kind of just got all the resources together they could get together. And they finally alerted the FBI. And by resources, I mean Mountain Wave, which was an emergency communication system, a bunch of different search and rescue places. And they searched the school. That was the first place, obviously. So they looked in the school, the classrooms, and different outbuildings on the property. And there was a report that they started the search of the Horman house that day. Day one ends, he's not found. Super sad finish to that day. So this is now Saturday, June 5th. So the day after Kyron went missing at 2am There is a man named Jim Kelly who has property next door to Skyline elementary. And he talks to the police and he tells them that he saw a white truck on his property around 3pm and at 2am and a white truck is what Terry was driving that day. It was actually Kane's truck, but Terry was using it, right? M. Yes.

[B]

And the reason that she took Kane's truck, she said that day, was because she thought she was going to be bringing Kyron's science project home so she could put it in the back.

[A]

So we'll come back to that a little bit later. But he wanted to make sure that the police knew I saw this white truck outside my house twice. And it was just a little bit. A little bit odd. There was a woman in it. She didn't get out. It happened two times on my property. And that's just what we know about that so far.

[B]

And can you, can you tell me what time again that happened?

[A]

So it was at 3pm the day that Kyron went missing and 2am the next day on his property. Yeah. So the next day is they start a greater search of the area. And There are about 60 to 70 people involved in the search. And we've talked about this, that the property. I think it's important for our listeners to know the property where Skyline elementary is, is extremely wooded. It's rural. The kids used to joke, like, if the soccer ball goes off the field don't chase it because you'll tumble down a hill. I think when people think Portland, they think very urban. But what you don't realize is if you drive 5, 10 miles almost in any direction, you're in the middle of the country.

[B]

And the forest.

[A]

And the forest. So people were traipsing through trees and the woods and it, it was a realistic expectation to think, did he just wander out here? Is he out here in the woods? So people were searching there. There was a news conference that day and a spokesman for the sheriff said this is not a criminal investigation. It was made very clear. This is a missing person's case, not a criminal investigation. And this information was spread to the Associated Press and national, other national outlets. The morning of the six, Terry posts on Facebook and she lets people know she has ordered a bunch of missing persons flyers. She says she's ordered a thousand of them and then as soon as they get to the house, she'll let people know where they can go. At 9am the FBI makes an announcement that they have brought in a Quantico based profiler to create a profile of Kyron. And this is just, this is bonkers to me. There were 50 detectives on hand because they were going to interview all 300 students about what they saw.

[B]

Yeah, I read that, that over 200 people came in voluntarily who had been at the school on Sunday and then they went to go track down the rest the following days, which I think.

[A]

It'S important to bring back. What you said in the beginning, the, the fact that it was the science fair day makes this so much harder to say. Did you see him? Because there were hundreds more people than it would be if it was just teachers and students.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So so many people to interview. So Monday, June 7, people are still on the ground looking for Kyron, but also this day, KGW Sky 8. So that's like our helicopter team from the news sees that they are in wetsuits, moving through waist high water and that they have now gone to Sovie Island. Sovie island is pretty close to where the school is and they are searching in a body of water. But there's no statements made at all about why, why they're there. Why would you go to this spot? So this search keeps happening from June 8th until June 13th. Sunday, June 13th is an absolutely key day to this investigation. This is when the sheriff's office announces the devastating news that the search for Kyron has ended. It was actually one of the largest in state history with 1300 people helping look for him. This is the day they announced that it has shifted into a criminal investigation. So the search for Kyron is off, but it is a criminal investigation, unfortunately, on Thursday, June 17, there is a rumor that his body has been found. And the local police have to come on and make a statement saying that that's a rumor and he has not been found. Which. Can you imagine being a member of his community or family and hearing that and wondering if that's true?

[B]

How sad. Also, man, something really interesting that you said that just really struck me, and I think I didn't hear it really until you said it. But the fact that they stopped searching for him and turned it criminal says to me they had enough evidence to suggest that it wasn't even worth looking for him because he was really had.

[A]

Been taken or something on Friday, June 18th. So this is just a day after they've said this is now a criminal investigation. Multnomah county sheriffs release a flyer with Terry on it and a photo of that white truck. Truck that she was driving. So there is. There is something that's making them assume we need to. To see if we can identify who's in this truck and if you have seen this truck. So they start to put those flyers up around the area. It is reported that day also. And we can talk about the validity of this. M. You can tell us about this. That Terry has to go through a second polygraph because a key question in the first polygraph showed she was being deceptive. But we know that those are not always. What's the word I want to use?

[B]

They're just not reliable. The problem with the polygraph is even if it is highly, highly accurate, the room for error still makes it possible and actually probable that you're going to misclassify people from time to time. So it's problematic. That's. This is the reason that they're not admissible in court is because they. We know they're fallible. They're essentially used by law enforcement agencies as a tool to see if it is worth pursuing someone further. I think that's fine. But it's also something that we can't hang our hats on. Boy, here, though, as I defend all of these things with Terry already, I'm like, okay, but also, that's a lot of defending I'm doing. Okay.

[A]

So this is where the story gets what feels like absolutely impossibly insane, as if it couldn't be worse. Already. Terry's undergoing her second polygraph. While she's undergoing her second polygraph, Kane gets notified by Multnomah county detectives that there has been a murder for hire plot against him.

[B]

Yeah. So I looked into this a little bit more, and a landscaper named Rodolfo Sanchez Estrada, also known as Rudy, came forward to the police about a month after Kyron went missing to report that back in January. So about six months prior to Kyron's date that he went missing, she had approached him and tried to pay money to have him kill Kane. Listen, there are reports that. Could this have been recanted later? Potentially. Obviously, this is one person who's coming forward, and there was no hard evidence, but it's, again, extremely strange. I think the police felt like he was a reliable witness and this was a meaningful thing, and they moved forward as if this was the case.

[A]

And they did have Rodolfo wear a wire and have a conversation with her, and she just didn't say enough to incriminate herself. But I do love that Kane immediately filed for divorce and took and took Kira and moved from the house that he shared with Terry. He wasn't like, I'm gonna wait and he feel this out. I'm gonna see if this really happened. He's like, she tried to hire someone to murder me. We're gonna get divorced, and I'm going to move out.

[B]

Yes. And he filed a restraining order immediately.

[A]

Yes. I love through all of this that you can just feel and see how much Cain wants to protect his children. He's like, I'm taking Kiara and I'm going. You don't get to hire someone to try to murder me and continue to live with me and our daughter.

[B]

No. I think that's a fair assessment.

[A]

So Monday, June 28th. Some of our listeners, if you're younger, you might not know we used to have these things called magazines, and they were super popular. Like, I had magazine subscriptions, and People was one of the biggest after you kind of grew out of, like, the YM teen whatever phase. So on July 5, People magazine hit the stands, and it had Kyron's story in it. And Larry Moulton, Terry's dad, was interviewed, and when people asked him if they thought his daughter would be arrested, he replied and seemed to be upset. And he said he thought it was 50, 50, whether she would be arrested or not. After Kane moved out of the home, Terry was approached by KP, KPTV, Channel 12, and was kind of asked about him moving out and some allegations. And she just said, everything's good and gave a thumbs up. And she just said, we heard it's all a rumor. It's just a rumor, but everything is fine. The only thing that has changed is that my dad is living with us.

[B]

She really refused very quickly to cooperate fully. And right away, within days after Kyron's disappearance, Desiree and Kane were begging her to cooperate with police and tell them everything that she knew. So it this whole her not quite being open or honest about their living situation seems like par for the course with her, maybe.

[A]

And, you know, she eventually went on Dr. Phil, and we could say a lot of things about Dr. Phil, but she went on his show and he. He did bring this up with her and said, you know, most people who aren't guilty really, really want to scream from the rooftops that they aren't and give everything that they possibly can to help. And it just seems like you were not willing to give the help that was needed to potentially find Kyron and make yourself seem not guilty. On Friday, July 9, there is a candlelight vigil that's held for Kyron at Skyline Grade School. I remember seeing this on the news. There were candles. There was a lighting of a wall that they called Wall of Hope. And then on Saturday, July 10, we have the second kind of bombshell. So I feel like the first bombshell was Terry hiring a hitman, supposedly, allegedly on July 10. Investigators believe at least one other person in addition to Terry, has knowledge about the disappearance of Kirn. So they're not going so far as to say someone did it, but that someone has some information about where he could potentially be. On December 30, KGW News learned that investigators believe Dee Spicer. This is the new character that's entering the chat that the investigators announced. There's somebody else who we think has information very abruptly left a Skyline home where she was gardening, but she left her car behind. So she's there and then she's gone, but her car is still there. And this is at the exact same time that Terry Horman was unaccounted for. So remember, there's that like 90 minute window. And this is Terry's, Terry's friend, Terry's friend Didi, who's gardening at a house very close to Skyline Elementary. Didi is unaccounted for and she does not answer her phone from 10am until 1pm so this timeline leaves opportunity for her to have potentially been involved in some way with Terry. In an online article in September 2013, Dede did claim that she passed a polygraph. But also, and we'll get into this later, she signed an immunity deal with prosecutors, and she agreed to tell all before the grand jury investigating the case. So that makes you think she knows something?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So some more stuff we've discovered about DD Spicer, some of which we can cite and we have proof of, some of which could potentially just be hearsay, and some of which is from Desiree, who has a right to say what she's going to say about what she knows about this case, but we can't prove if it is honest or correct. Right. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So allegedly, Dede and a few other friends who have not been named purchased prepaid cell phones in the few days after Kyron went missing. They paid with cash. They were bought purchased at Lloyd center, which is a mall in Portland, Oregon. And they were used to communicate. Some. Some of them have been quoted of saying it's because Terry wanted to remain because she was under suspicion.

[B]

I, I get what you're saying, actually, I, I go back and forth on this because I keep thinking, well, she was being investigated by the police and under suspicion, so she was just trying to be like, offline with her friends. But then I go back to like, but if you're innocent, why would you need to be offline with your friends? Like, I. There's nothing that I couldn't say to you about something that I had nothing to do with.

[A]

Here's the thing. When they got this, when they purchased the prepaid cell phones to communicate, she was not under criminal investigation yet. He was still just a missing person. So at that point, you. You don't have anything to hide. So it seems highly suspicious. And here's where it gets even crazier. So we'll talk more about this later. But in 2024, Desiree spoke at Northwest Crime Fest, and she said that those cell phones pinged and that's why the searchers were at Sovie Island. So remember, for that, like, five day period, they were searching there and nobody knew why are they there? Desiree said it's because of those cell phones. And Dee actually told police she would give them emails, texts, and potentially what's on these cell phones for immunity. And they did a deal with her. And Desiree claims the police have this information. They have the phones, they have information from her. But because of her immunity, there are certain things that they can't move forward with.

[B]

Wow. Sovi island, by the way, is highly uninhabited. It is an area where you can access sort of rugged beaches for the river. So people go out there to hang out on the quote unquote beach, rocky beach. There's also tons of U pick farms. So you can go out and go blueberry picking or that kind of thing, but it's a huge, massive area of, like, farmland and woods and just nothing.

[A]

Well, exactly. It's actually where scary corn mazes are that I won't even take my kids. But the other thing about Dee Dee that feels very incriminating, I think is the only word I could use was that DeeDee did go in front of a grand jury and she gave testimony and she asserted her Fifth Amendment right over 140 times. I read the court documents. They start by asking her questions about herself. She gives all the answers. The second they ask even questions as simple as, did you know Kyron pleads the Fifth for all.

[B]

Yeah, you've probably heard of pleading the Fifth right. But the Fifth Amendment literally has a bit in it. It's. Among other things, it says, essentially, nobody shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself. So essentially, by pleading the Fifth, she was saying that that would incriminate her in some way.

[A]

So Dee Dee was offered full immunity for sharing information in 2012. And Desiree said at the 2024 Northwest Crime Fest, which we'll link, that the phones show evidence that Dede did this with Terry and that there is evidence in the bed of the truck and that there are missing items from the house. And that. Wow, that's what Desiree claims. And that with a new district attorney now, they're really hoping to try to figure out how to. To work around this immunity deal that was done with Dede.

[B]

Yeah. It's interesting. According to an article from KGW8, Desiree says it's very clear from Terry's horrible words that she had a severe hatred for Kyron and that she blamed a lot of the marital problems on Kyron. So that's. That's according to Desiree Young. It's interesting because those are not public record. We do not have access to Terry's texts or emails or what else might be incriminating from those or any of the other phone contents.

[A]

Right. Or the emails. Actually, Kane and desiree went on Dr. Phil, and on the Dr. Phil episode, they talked about some of those emails. But also Desiree talked about how she had tried to email with Cain and bring up, there are some things going on in the home I'm not comfortable with in the year before Kyron went missing, and that those emails never made it to Cain, that Terry intercepted every single one of them. And Kane just said, I never saw those. So I didn't know what kind of Concerns you have. So I feel like there's so much information we have. Have not seen that went on before he went missing and after.

[B]

This is one of those really frustrating things, because already so much is stacking up against Terry that makes her look like she's potentially guilty. I mean, I don't know, you tried to hire someone to kill your husband, and then you have this hatred. You know, I read in another article that actually Terry and Kai, Terry and Kane, fought a lot over discipline for Chiron, that Terry wanted him disciplined more than Kane did. So I. I mean, I don't know the content of the emails, and I don't know what other evidence there is, but the fact that there's likely more circumstantial evidence than we even know about must be so frustrating for Cain and Desiree to not have Terry already kind of investigated further.

[A]

Can I tell you one other thing that Desiree said at the Northwest Crime Fest that I thought was absolutely fascinating?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So the interviews I've seen with Desiree, I think she has had a lot of time to think about this, and she's been very thoughtful with breaking the day down that Kyron went missing, and there are just some things that don't make sense to her. So Desiree said that Terry said, when I saw him, he was walking back to his classroom, and that's when I waved to him. And Desiree very quickly said, no, the school layout is shaped like a U. It's shaped like a horseshoe. And Desiree said she physically could not have seen him go into his classroom from where she claimed she did. So just a number of things Desiree brought up that aren't, you know, in news reports or whatever that have her asking a lot of questions about the day.

[B]

Yeah, I saw some of that, too. And I also wondered maybe that's just a small miscommunication where Terry's like, no, I didn't say I saw him go into his classroom. I just saw him walking toward it. Right. And so that's hard to know.

[A]

And you and I have talked about this. Now, a lot of these things in isolation wouldn't seem suspicious, but all of them, together with Kyron still missing, certainly paint a picture that there was potential involvement with Terry and Dede.

[B]

Yes. So I want to go back. There's more to say on Terry.

[A]

So as we're talking about, if these things were done in isolation, they might not seem suspicious, but the way Terry is acting during Karen's disappearance is definitely questionable at best. And it. It comes to light that on June 30, four days after Kane Harmon left their house with their young daughter after filing for divorce, that she was sexting with her husband's high school friend, Michael Cook. So while others are investigating where Kyron is, she is multiple times a day sexting. And these are in court documents because Kane eventually has to keep fighting for a restraining order. And it comes to light that she was spending this time on her phone sexting instead of helping pour energy into helping Kyron. Some other things that we've already talked about a little bit, but they're in a book called Boy the Search for Kyron Horman by Rebecca Morris, that the book recounted, as we did, all of Terry's movements that day, including buying cold medicine and other items. But those items were never found, ever. Terri also tried to explain where she was and about how she hurt her leg. So she had a gash under her knee, and she claimed she dropped her weight, a weight on her leg at the gym. I lift weights and. And you lift weights. And I can't really figure out how if I dropped one, it would go under my knee or cause a gash. I think maybe a bruise anyway, so that seems a little bit suspicious. Also, it was reported by Desiree that there was a freshly washed jacket and backpack the day he disappeared. Terry. In the book, it described that Terry washed them. And Desiree at CrimeFest Northwest said she saw them on Kyron's bed that the night the canine team came. Night one, she saw them. And she's like, looking back, I feel like that could have been very pertinent evidence that Terry had washed a backpack and a coat. And it's not reported in this KGW news article. But Desiree at the conference said it was also Kyron's clothes. Like, a bunch of his clothes had been washed and were laying on top of his bed.

[B]

It's so interesting because I give everybody the benefit of the. Of the doubt, and I'm a bit like, but how could somebody do a heinous crime like this? Like, it couldn't have been Terry.

[A]

It.

[B]

It had to be someone else. Maybe she hired someone. But what's interesting is both Desiree and Cain firmly believe, and it's stated in this book and elsewhere, that she did indeed call him, cause him grievous harm, and that she was fully capable of doing so based on their knowledge. So this is a person that they know well.

[A]

Yeah. And that according to Desiree at True Crime, that they do have evidence stating that she was involved and that Dee Dee was involved with her. But because of the immunity deal, it's just making it really impossible to move forward.

[B]

I can't imagine how frustrating that would be.

[A]

No. And, you know, you and I talked about this. It's also the fact that Terri has remained pretty quiet. She went on Dr. Phil six years after he was missing. And Desiree and Kane have never stopped publicly asking for help.

[B]

Yeah, I really appreciate that. They have never stopped looking for Chiron. They will never stop speaking about Chiron. And, you know, hopefully we did this case. Okay. To share and continue the story of Kyron so that people continue thinking about it, continue learning about it, and if they ever come across something that they think might be relevant, they can share it.

[A]

I told you. Hunter did his first 5k in 2011, I believe, maybe 2012. I'll look back and link the race. He did, and it was for Kyron. His dad was there. It was at Cook park in Tigard, and it was to raise money. And they still do an annual car wash every year to raise money for the ongoing search. So we'll link how you can get involved with that. But before all of that, I think. And we've got to talk about the theories of where he could be and what could have happened, because we've talked about Terry, but where else could Kyron be?

[B]

So in looking at, you know, web sleuths and Reddit and things of where what do people think? A lot of people think he wandered off that day and ended up somewhere in the woods. That they he went into some kind of little crevasse or fell into some water, a body of water, and was not found or recovered in the search. Because he's a small boy. People believe that because he was so into frogs, his science project was on frogs. They thought maybe he ran off to go and try to catch a frog or find something interesting about a frog. Others on Reddit or websleuths believe that he was kidnapped by somebody as a crime of opportunity. Where because the school was sort of open and unknown, there are some completely unverified reports of that there was a male chaperone. He was seen with a male chaperone. And there were no male chaperones listed as actual chaperones that day. Other people said, you know, that. That children and. And parents had reported a creepy man around the school. And so maybe this person had just found a little boy to snatch. It seems a little bit unlikely to me. Here's the thing. I'd like to give all of these a lot of credence, but we were talking about today, if my child went missing. Please, God, no. But if that kind of thing happened, I just don't think they could find much evidence that I could even possibly have been involved or my husband could have it, just. Or anyone in their life. We just aren't engaged in the kinds of behaviors that Terry Moulton was engaged in.

[A]

100%. We talked about that. If, as you said, God forbid, one of my children went missing, I think they would look at my history of the past year of my life, and it would make pretty clear there's. There's not a lot of things that would add up to me being involved as Kane and Desiree. Right. Like, there have been people who have been fully. There's. To this day, no matter how much Cain and Desiree may not see eye to eye on things, on Dr. Phil, she just said, oh, there's absolutely no way. I think he was involved in any way, shape, or form. So everybody else has been. There's no question that they were not involved.

[B]

Yeah. It's just that stranger abduction is so exceedingly rare. It doesn't mean it's impossible, but it's so, so rare that it's way more often someone you know and when you find someone you know that has so much compelling evidence against them, that's really hard to look away. And elsewhere, there's also another completely unverified rumor on the Internet that flies around is that that a teacher actually heard Kyron ask, can I go outside and help him with something? And that there was a creepy man and said, yes, but maybe didn't even turn around. And somebody else reports that they saw that and that Kyron went out to help a man get something from his truck or his car. But that's. Again, this is totally rumors and not anything that I would lend credence to. In fact, I'm not even sure if it's responsible for us to bring these up.

[A]

I think it's important to share what is. What's out there. So then we can also end by saying it really does appear all the evidence we have and interviews with people that it boils down to Taryn Dee Dee. It boils down to that. Everything pointing to that.

[B]

It really does. And if it wasn't them, well, how terrible of us. But there really isn't any other theory that seems really strongly compelling to anyone.

[A]

I just hope that there is a way. I know that there has been pressure on. There's a new district attorney in Portland, and I know one of the things Desiree talked about in true crime, Northwest 2024 was not putting too much pressure on him, which I thought was really thoughtful of her, not being like this is your priority, but asking him to see if there's some way to get national parties involved or somehow to work through this immunity piece. Because Desiree really said we pretty much know what happened. We just really want to know where and if anybody has any tips or, you know, anything. You're supposed to contact the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office and we will put the phone number and the email in the show notes and that's who you would want to reach out to if you know anything, no matter how small or minor you think it might be.

[B]

Thank you for listening and for caring about Kyron Horman and his parents. We initially decided that we were only going to do a true crime case, one a month for our book VIPs over on Patreon. And as we researched this case extensively, we realized we had to release this publicly because we really want to keep this story out there for everyone and this was not something that we could keep behind a paywall. Even if we are the biggest podcast or or a podcast that's going to get the attention of the exact right person. You just never know who might be listening and who might have some information that can help the case. So we are instead going to be talking about a different case with for our Patreon VIPs this week and we are happy that we were able to bring you this case of Chiron to anyone who wants to hear it.

[A]

Do you want to tell them which case we are going to be putting behind the paywall?

[B]

Yes, we are going to be covering the case of Abby Williams and Libby German and the Delphi murders in Indiana.

[A]

So pop over to our Patreon to get access to that and other behind the scenes content. We appreciate.