Tamla Horsford: A Case of Unanswered Questions

Summary

Books With Your Besties: Episode Summary – "Tamla Horsford: A Case of Unanswered Questions"

Overview

In this intense True Crime edition of Books With Your Besties, hosts Emily and Ashley delve deep into the mysterious death of Tamla Horsford, a 40-year-old mother of five from Cumming, Georgia. Released on June 6, 2025, this episode uncovers the ambiguities surrounding Tamla's tragic demise, exploring potential motives, investigative shortcomings, and the broader racial tensions in Forsyth County that may have influenced the case.

---

Background on Tamla Horsford

Tamla Horsford was a dedicated mother and active member of her community. On November 4, 2018, Tamla attended an adult sleepover party with fellow youth football moms in Forsyth County, a locale with a deeply troubled racial history. Tamla was the only Black woman among approximately a dozen predominantly white attendees, placing her in a unique and potentially vulnerable position.

---

The Night of the Incident

The evening began as a typical social gathering, with Tamla bringing tequila and being one of the last to stay awake. At around 1:47 AM, Tamla went outside to the backyard balcony to smoke a cigarette. Shortly thereafter, at approximately 1:57 AM, the sliding glass door to the balcony was left open, an unusual occurrence that raised immediate suspicions.

At [00:47], Ashley introduces the case, highlighting the national outrage and confusion it sparked. Both hosts listened to various podcasts about the incident and felt compelled to discuss unanswered questions and alternative interpretations of the evidence.

---

Investigation and Key Evidence

The Fall and Autopsy Findings

According to the official report, Tamla fell from a 14-foot-high balcony, resulting in blunt force trauma and acute ethanol intoxication with a blood alcohol content of approximately 0.24 ([02:04] Emily). Both hosts express skepticism about the plausibility of Tamla's accidental fall, considering her height of 5'5" ([03:34] Ashley) and lack of known suicidal tendencies ([03:36] Emily).

Notable Injuries:

• Heart Laceration: Typically associated with blunt force trauma, raising questions about whether this was purely from a fall or indicative of additional violence ([16:20] Ashley).
• Broken Wrist: Consistent with bracing for a fall, though some abrasions suggested alternative explanations ([17:50] Ashley).
• Facial Injuries: Abrasions on her forehead and chin are unusual for a simple fall ([39:24] Ashley).

The 911 Call Analysis

At [07:29], Emily discusses the 911 call, where Jeanne Myers reports finding Tamla face down and speculates she might have fallen off the balcony. Both hosts note the suspicious nature of the responders' reluctance to move Tamla's body and the presence of a cut on her wrist. They highlight discrepancies and suspicions surrounding the handling of the scene:

• James Myers' Statement: Speculating about the fall without definitive evidence ([02:04] Emily).
• Jose Barrera's Reluctance: His refusal to touch or move Tamla raises red flags about potential foul play ([05:43] Emily).

Additional Evidence Concerns

• Multiple Cigarettes Found: Contrary to claims that Tamla was the only smoker, the discovery of different cigarette types suggests the presence of another individual ([37:16] Emily).
• Lack of Blood at the Scene: Minimal blood found on different parts of Tamla’s body and absence elsewhere raises questions about the nature of her injuries ([42:38] Ashley).
• Second Autopsy Discrepancies: A family-requested autopsy revealed abrasions inconsistent with a fall, but concerns arise regarding the credibility of the medical examiner, Dr. Adele Shaker, given his controversial history ([21:34] Emily).

---

Controversies and Questions

Handling of the Investigation

Emily and Ashley critique the investigation's methodology, including:

• Group Interviews: Party guests were interviewed together initially, potentially leading to collusion or false testimonies ([25:07] Ashley).
• Interruption by Jeanne Myers: Jeanne's inappropriate interactions with investigators, including gifting Dunkin' Donuts gift cards, suggest attempts to influence the investigation ([25:31] Emily).

Malfeasance by Investigators

• Jose Barrera: A pretrial services officer who improperly accessed confidential documents and leaked personal information, raising concerns about his integrity and potential motives ([28:52] Ashley).
• Mike Christian: The lead detective who resigned amid allegations of unprofessional behavior, including sharing case details with women he had extramarital affairs with ([32:14] Ashley).

Racial Dynamics in Forsyth County

Forsyth County's history of extreme racism, including the 1912 lynching and the 1987 Brotherhood March, plays a crucial role in understanding potential biases in the investigation. With only 4% Black residents, the systemic prejudices may have influenced how Tamla's case was handled and perceived ([44:12] Emily).

---

Theories Presented

Possible Accidental Death

One theory suggests that Tamla, highly intoxicated, simply fell off the balcony while attempting to smoke, with injuries consistent with such a fall.

Intentional Harm or Cover-Up

Alternatively, an altercation among the predominantly white attendees could have led to Tamla being pushed off the balcony to frame her death as accidental. The presence of multiple cigarettes and the inconsistent evidence supports this possibility.

Negligent Investigation

Regardless of intent, the investigation's mishandling—ranging from inadequate evidence collection to investigator misconduct—implies that the truth may never fully emerge.

---

Conclusion

Emily and Ashley conclude that Tamla Horsford's death remains shrouded in unanswered questions due to multiple layers of potential bias, inadequate investigative procedures, and the fraught racial landscape of Forsyth County. They emphasize the need for an unbiased, thorough investigation to provide Tamla's family with the justice and closure they deserve.

Notable Quotes:

• “[...] something does not add up with the story. So for one to just to start thinking about someone falling over a 14-foot balcony without some intentionality seems off.” – Ashley ([03:36])

• “If you don't think so, maybe she was just trying to figure out how in the world someone could be face down on the ground in their grass.” – Emily ([11:20])

• “The deck was huge. I kind of pictured her just standing in this little balcony. But it is a massive deck.” – Ashley ([05:34])

• “She must have fell off the balcony. [...] Maybe she was just trying to be extremely helpful.” – Emily ([12:30])

• “A lot of people think somebody was involved here and that Jose is part of it... but I think he did some things that make it seem like he was unlikely to be involved.” – Emily ([32:14])

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Books With Your Besties masterfully weaves together the tragic elements of Tamla Horsford's case with a critical examination of the investigative process and the societal undercurrents that may have influenced the outcome. Through meticulous analysis and empathetic storytelling, Emily and Ashley shed light on a case that demands deeper scrutiny and justice.

Transcript

[A]

We are thrilled to announce that this episode is brought to you by Lagoon Pillow. As women in our 40s who are trying to take care of our health and wellness, we know that good mornings start with optimal sleep and Lagoon pillows are made just for that. They're customizable, supportive, and will have you waking up feeling your best. I personally am an otter head to lagoonsleep.com, take the sleep quiz and use Code book club for 15% off your next order.

[B]

Hi, I'm Emily.

[A]

I'm Ashley and this is Books with your Besties. Hi friends. Welcome back to Books with your Besties True Crime edition, the podcast where we dive into true crime cases that leave us with a lot more questions than answers. I'm Ashley.

[B]

And I'm Emily. Today's episode is heavy. We are talking about Tamla Horsford. She was a 40 year old mother of five whose 2018 death at an adult slumber party in Cumming, Georgia had has sparked national outrage, confusion, heartbreak. It is a really sad case and I think there's still a lot of questions to be asked about it.

[A]

Both Emily and I listened to a number of different podcasts on this case and felt like it was important for us to speak about it because we still have a lot of questions and feel like maybe there were questions not asked on some of the other podcast episodes we listened to.

[B]

And in true Emily and Ashley form, we also interpreted some of the evidence a little bit differently, I think, than a lot of what is out there. And we tried to be really unbiased in looking at each explicit and distinct piece of evidence.

[A]

Let's start where we always start, with just the facts which matter. On November 4, 2018, Emila was found face down in the backyard of a home where she'd been attending kind of a mom's night sleepover. The official report ended up being that she fell from a 14 foot high deck at after stepping outside on the deck to smoke a cigarette. But we have a lot of questions about this which we will get into as we unfold the facts about this night.

[B]

Right. So this was in Forsyth county, which is in Georgia, and the sheriff's office ruled this death and accident. And the autopsy found blunt force trauma from the fall and acute ethanol intoxication. So she was very, very inebriated from alcohol. I think her blood alcohol level was about three times the legal limit at. 00:20, which is really high. But we also can be something that can be manageable for someone if they are a good drinker. Basically. I hate to say it like that. But like have a good tolerance and I have friends who enjoy drinks and probably can handle a 0.23 better than other people who could handle a 0.23. So that's just to say that is not an across the board meaningful number for every person. It can be slightly different what that intoxication looks like for somebody, but it's a very high intoxication level. From the beginning, a lot of people, including Taylor, Pamela's family, felt like something didn't add up and they still feel that way. Something does not add up with the story. So for one to just to start thinking about someone falling over a four foot fence without some intentionality, without being up higher toward the fence or without assistance over the fence seems off. And you know that I asked you this, Ashley. I was like, well was she tall? Because I'm tall and you are not so tall. And so you were like there's no way I could fall over a four foot fence. And I was like, but maybe I could. And you found out how tall was Tamla?

[A]

Tamla was 5 5.

[B]

So not tall. Not tall enough that I mean I'm 58 and I feel like I could lean myself over that kind of a balcony, but it would be more effortful for someone of that height. It also makes very little sense that if you were actually intentionally trying to harm yourself that you would jump from a stimulus second story balcony onto grass. Like that doesn't feel like that would be an effective method of trying to harm oneself. So it just doesn't really make sense. And they and people didn't believe her to have any suicidal tendencies in her life.

[A]

I think you and I took a lot of time researching this and we looked at images from the crime scene of the house. And one of the questions we had when we looked at the railing and the height of it was that there was a table pushed right up next to the edge of the railing. And we both quite questioned did anybody think that maybe she could have sat on that table and fallen that way? Because there's been no discussion about did. The way her body landed, it looked like she fell backwards or forwards. And nobody talked about the table that was right there.

[B]

Yeah. In looking at the photos of the balcony originally I thought, well, maybe she was sitting out there to have a cigarette. She was totally intoxicated. I've been there and made really bad decisions when I am inebriated and maybe thought, oh, I will sit up on the railing. But it doesn't look like that kind of railing that you would Sit on. So that table though, was close to the railing. Yeah, I agree.

[A]

Also think it's important to note just because people use words like, you know how some people call pop pop and some people call soda pop. And I think it's weird when people call it. So in the reports, they called this a balcony. When I picture a balcony, I think of a very small one person like right outside of a bedroom. But this is a full on huge deck is what I would call it. It has two complete tables with four seats at each of the table on it. I just think that matters too, because the deck was huge. I kind of pictured her just standing in the middle of this little balcony. But it is a massive deck.

[B]

Yes. And we can put a link. We will put a link to a website that has actually a ton of the evidence compiled for you to look over and there's photographs there.

[A]

I think importantly, we need to spend a little bit of time just talking about who Tamela was. So Tamla and her family had recently moved to Forsyth county for her husband's job. She was super involved. She was a mom of five, a youth football mom. And actually that's how she kind of got the invite to this party. They were all youth football moms with her.

[B]

Yes. But the interesting thing is, is that Tamla was the only black woman at this adult sleepover party. So the only black mom of these football moms. And we're talking about 10 women, 12. The photograph was quite a lot of women. So all white women. And then Tamla and this. And then the one black woman at the party ends up dead. So this matters. This matters. And here is why it matters so much. Forsyth county has a very troubling and deep racial history that is recent history. So we're going to come back to that and talk more about Forsyth County. But it's something to think about as we go through the rest of what the case looked like and the investigation looks like.

[A]

Looks like. And I think too, it leaves. I think it's why there are also so many questions about intentions, motives, cover ups, like just with the history of this county. It's really not easy, but it's really hard when you're looking at this case to not really recognize she's the only black woman at the party. So before the investigation and those pieces, let's talk a little bit about what happened that night or what the story is that happened that night from the people were there. So according to the reports that we were able to get access to, Tamela stayed up later than all of the others, she was a smoker. Supposedly she went out on the back deck around 2am to have one last cigarette for the night the next morning. So hours later, she was found face down in the yard.

[B]

Okay, here is where things get strange. So this is all we know about the evening essentially, is that they were partying. Tamla showed up and brought tequila. They were all drinking. Tamla was smoking and was one of the last ones up. One of the moms got picked up around 1:45am and the other moms, some moms were staying. There were two men present at the party and they'd stayed in the basement. And there weren't supposed to be any men there, but they basically, one of them was the boyfriend of the homeowner, and he was like 25 years old. Jose Barrera. And then the homeowner's name was Jean Myers. There were two men there, Jose Barrera, who was in his 20s and was dating the homeowner, Jeanne Meyers. Jeanne is J E A N N E, like spelled that way. And she was in her 40s. So this was an interesting partnership, but Jose didn't want to leave. And also Tom Smith, who was the husband of another partygoer, one of the women who actually helped coordinate this party, they stayed at the house even though it was supposed to be all women, as sort of some strange. Like they didn't feel like leaving. They just wanted to hang out and they hung out in the basement. So they weren't with the women while the women were partying, but they were present throughout the night. And I know Jose spent the night with Jeanne in her bedroom, right? Or in the morning, reportedly, the person who first saw Tamla Horsford ran to Jeanne's room, and Jeanne and Jose both emerged from that room. So there were men there and all of the women. Here's what gets strange. So they found Tamla. And what we know is the 911 call. And you can listen to the 911 call in its entirety yourself and we'll link where you can find that. And John Myers initially made the call, and I listened to the full call. Here's the thing. There have been reports in a lot of news sources and on in blogs and on Reddit and in other podcasts that I think really pick apart this call and make it seem each of the statements made very suspicious. So Jeanne calls, she says, 91 want help. We need ambulance here and police. One of the partygoers is face down in the grass. And she says, I don't know, maybe she fell off the balcony. And I think people found that very suspicious. But I do think it's possible that she just was trying to figure out how in the world someone could be face down on the ground in their grass, in the backyard below the balcony. So I don't know that that kind of speculation is that extreme. If she had said it in another way, maybe it would, it would feel more suspicious to me. But I'm. I'm just not sure I'm ready to assign suspicion to that. Then she hands the phone over to Jose Barrera. Here's what's interesting. She says, Jeanne Meyer says she's stiff very quickly. She's not moving and she's stiff. This is something that has come up a lot of times. Jose Barrera then says, gets on the phone and is like, hello, this is this woman that we have. And the 911 operator is asking multiple times, is she breathing? And remember, Jean Meyers has already said that she is stiff. Jose Barrera says, she's not moving, she's not breathing. I tried to assess her and she's stiff. So now twice they've asserted this person is pretty well dead, right? And he's saying, I don't want to touch her. I don't know if I should move her over. And I think people also were like, this is weird. Why wouldn't you flip her over and try to see if she's breathing? They know she's dead. I'm just going to play devil's advocate again here. But to defend these people's response here, they're like, no, this person's dead. I'm not getting my hands all over this and moving her. If this is a crime scene, especially Jose Barrera, who is involved with the police force, right? So he says, I'm noticing a small cut on her right wrist. I don't know if this was self inflicted or a cut on the way down. I'm completely not sure that's what I can see without moving her over. Okay? So this also has been grabbed onto a lot as that she was. He suggested that she did it to herself by saying, I don't know if this was self inflicted. The 911 operator responds, is she suicidal? And Jose Barrera says very clearly, I have no clue. I just met this woman, I don't know her. And he says, the woman we believe to be deceased. So they clearly, when they called, they were like, this woman is deceased. He says he doesn't want to touch her. Again, he asserts essentially that he doesn't want to touch her. And then he said she was out smoking and was the only smoker. So these are the points I took from the 911 call. I will say I feel like some of the podcasts really, really jumped on and wanted to make this a big, giant conspiracy murder thing. And it. It could be, but I felt like, much like with many cases, you can take one tiny sentence out of context and make it into something that's nefarious if you want to. When I don't think that this call, it didn't raise a lot of alarm bells for me.

[A]

I'm so glad that you took the time to listen to the call because in the other podcast episodes I listened to, if that was my only access to this story, I definitely would have thought that 911 call seemed very obvious that there was some involvement there. But I feel like the key phrase of she must have fallen off the balcony. She doesn't say she fell off the balcony. She. Because a lot of questions that were initially asked on other podcasts were, well, how would she have any idea she fell off the balcony? Of course, they must have pushed her off the balcony if they know that information. But I will say the one question I did have, even after listening to you talk about the 911 calls, was, how did they know she was on the balcony smoking? Which I also think is just exactly what you said really quickly when you're asked by 911 to assess a situation, instead of just saying, I don't know, you do the mental math of she's face down in grass. That's where the balcony is. Maybe that's where she fell. Just, you're. I think you're just trying to be extremely helpful and you're trying to come up with, I don't know how this happened, but maybe she fell.

[B]

Yes. And here's the other thing is. And I feel like I'm maybe jumping ahead a tiny bit, but from all the reports that we can see, the. The door to the balcony was left wide open all night. So I could see walking out and being like, the door to the balcony is open. I look outside and there's a woman face down underneath it. I too, might presume knowing. Knowing that she was a smoker and that there is a cigarette and lighter out there. I might think the same thing. Like, she was out here smoking and fell off the balcony.

[A]

And the. The reason we know the time she was out there and the timeline of things is that they have, you know, like, not a security camera, but a system that tells you a sensor when doors are open and closed. So we know that Tamela went outside at 1:47am to say goodbye to Bridget. Bridget's like, she came to the car, the car window, she was eating some gumbo and then went back inside. And then we have the timestamps that you're talking about and where a sliding glass door was opened. And was it closed and opened again and left open?

[B]

Yeah. So it was opened at 1 1:49am it was closed at 1:50am, which makes it seem like you open the door, you got grab your things and walk out and close the door behind you. So she was out there and then it was opened again at 1:57am and never closed again. And I think what people think is why in the world would she not have closed it if she was coming back in or on the way back out? So did somebody else come out? And I, I, I think it's a fair question.

[A]

I think it's a fair question, too. But I also think as you're outside doing things, coming inside, like, I know I will preemptively open a door. I'm going to go back inside in just a second. And maybe that's when she felt like she just opened it. She thought, I'm going to grab my lighter and stuff over here, go back inside. I just don't think it points exactly to. Well, of course someone came out on the balcony and pushed her over. It just gives us a good timestamp of knowing this is when she was on the balcony.

[B]

Right. And also, maybe she was just drunk and left the door open on her way out. Who knows? Like, who knows, she came in to use the restroom and then went back out and left the door open. I just, here's the thing that I do have a question about with that, and I'm not saying it's impossible if someone else was out there with her and there was an altercation or somebody threw her over the balcony or they pushed her over or whatever, then when they came back in, they left the door open. And I find that really interesting. That level of let's leave the door open all night long to this house just feels unnatural to me.

[A]

Yeah. But not impossible.

[B]

Not impossible.

[A]

Especially if you've been drinking.

[B]

Totally. And somebody, if this was a bad accident that happened right then somebody could have come in in a panic and just walked straight. Just, just went in and went to the room to talk to someone or whatever.

[A]

Let's talk a little bit about the injuries that were found when she was found in the yard in the lawn, because you and I also have some questions about those and different ways that those could potentially have happened that did not have to do with falling off of a balcony. Her injuries were absolutely severe. So the fall from was from about 14ft. She had a laceration to her heart. A second autopsy, which was requested by the family, showed that there were abrasions, injuries not explained by the fall. So her apparent injuries were these head and neck injuries. She had a subarachnoid and subdermal hemorrhage, a fracture to her second vertebrae, and a laceration to the right ventricle of the heart. She had a dislocated right wrist with a laceration, abrasions on the left arm, hand and left leg, and a laceration on her right shining. She had facial injuries which were some abrasions on her forehead, above her left eyelid and near her chin. And then she had the broken wrist. So you and I have talked about not having ever fallen from a deck, but the way you feel like you may try to stop yourself if you knew you were going down. And a lot of these injuries make sense. Blunt force injuries, a broken wrist. The only one that I just think that doesn't feel like a fall to me are the abrasions just kind of scratches, which signal more of a slower fall or a scuffle in bushes or I'm not sure. When you read about the injuries, what, what did you think?

[B]

Well, I read that the heart laceration is a common ish injury from car accidents. So it is like a blunt force trauma, like a hard hit to the chest. And it actually made me wonder if it was possible that that is caused a heart attack. I know they said she died from intoxication, but like, could her heart just have stopped because of that laceration? I don't know. I have no idea. And blunt force trauma, but is that what they mean by blunt force trauma, like blunt force trauma to the heart? Her wrist sounded like consistent of trying to break your fall. Right. Trying to brace yourself if you are falling from a height. And we asked my husband, who is an orthopedic pa, if the dislocated right wrist with a laceration, maybe it was a compound fracture, which means multiple points of fracture. He said if that could happen from falling off a balcony and bracing yourself or just falling, even from the ground level, it can you just fall? And he said absolutely that you could be bracing yourself and break your wrist from a fall. So that just makes sense to me that there was a fall at some point. And also the chest. I don't think there's another way to, to explain the heart laceration besides that. There was a blunt force trauma that came in the form of a fall. Right.

[A]

So that's what the autopsies showed. The autopsy also showed that her blood alcohol content was, like you said, about 0.24. Legal limit most places is.08. She also had traces of marijuana in her body, THC, and then she had Xanax in her system, which people noted as unusual because Tamla did not have a prescription for this medication. There was a woman at the party that did have Xanax. So the thought is that she provided that to Tamela. And you and I talked about how that was a concern for some people. Like, how did it get in her system? How did she take that? She wasn't prescribed it. But if you're that intoxicated and you're a little, I don't know, curious, you. You might just take one if somebody offers it to you. That feels like a young party thing to do.

[B]

Totally. Yeah.

[A]

So I have less questions about that. Like, I don't. On some of the other episodes we listened to, it was like, was she basically force fed a Xanax? And that would be a little bit difficult for me to believe.

[B]

I mean, maybe here's the thing is, there's also apparently the partygoers, she was talking about maybe wanting to go home at one point. And the partygoers were like, no, you can't go. You're intoxicated. And they took her keys and her phone, which then there's a lot of contention around that. Why would you take her phone? But here's the thing is, maybe she was kind of having a freak out. And maybe. And I've been there, I've been there when you're drinking, right? And maybe she. They took her phone because she was trying to call people that they were like, what are you doing? Don't do that. I. I'm not. I don't know. That's not. I don't love it. I don't love that they took her phone. I love that they took her keys. I don't mind. But maybe they gave her a Xanax in that context too. Like, you need to calm down. Take this. This will relax you.

[A]

And I think there are two. There are two ways we can look at that, right? I think there's that they took her phone and her keys because they cared about her and they thought, no, you're not driving. No, you're not calling someone at 2 in the morning, like, just go to bed. Or maybe it was something more nefarious and they thought, we're taking your keys because we don't need you to leave this situation. And we're certainly taking your phone because we don't need you texting people about the way we're treating you or what's happening at this party if something, in fact, did happen. And here's the thing. I feel like we have talked a lot about the potential fall and all the questions we have around. Was this nefarious? Was it not? This is where it starts to get very messy. And that's the investigation where we now have so many questions, as does her family, because the investigation was messy. At absolute best.

[B]

Totally took. So they had the first medical examiner, and then they. The. The family paid for a private autopsy. Here's the thing. And that person found different findings, right? They found the abrasions. They found more things that were inconsistent with a fall from the balcony. That makes it look like there was more going on. Now, listen, I don't want to totally discredit this person, but as soon as I saw the name, it's Dr. Adele Shaker. As soon as I saw the name, I was like, I recognize that name. Why do I know that name? And as soon as you Google him, you see that he had been indicted. No, he didn't get indicted. He had been brought to a grand jury. He was never indicted, so he is innocent. However, he had so many allegations against him of botching medical exams while serving as the chief medical examiner in a. In a neighboring county. Oh, no. In a. In a county in Texas. What the grand jury didn't said there wasn't sufficient evidence to indict. But the fact that there were so many families that got together, I believe there were 17 people who came forward and said that they felt like he. He had ethical violations against him. He was also under investigation for allegedly tampering with or falsifying a government record. So this guy doesn't have the best history. To be a hundred percent honest, it worries me that the family unintentionally were given an autopsy report that they wanted rather than that was unbiased because he maybe could be bought. I don't know. At any rate, I just think it's worth bringing up that there's. It's hard. This is what I started ranting at Ashley about, is this is why in research studies, we don't have an n of 1 or an n of 2. Like, if we want to find out what the medical examiner would say about this. We'd love to have like 10 medical examiners take a look and have a consensus. Right. But when you're just relying on one person, it's really hard to know if there's subjectivity in there. And so then you get a second person and there's disagreement. Well, which one is right? Which one is right? Either way, I think there's some. Yeah, the investigation, I think. Let's get into that. I will say too, I feel like I've been defending these people as they did nothing wrong, but I'm really not. I think there's a lot of options. And I think as we get towards the end of this podcast, let's present some of the stories that we think could have played out.

[A]

So excited to talk about that because I think it's our. It is our job and you and I do a very good job of this. And our audience probably gets upset at times at looking at all of these from every angle possible. We do not go in with preconceived ideas. We. I go in emotionally hot and then you help me see the fact that. And we break it down and then that's our job for our listeners, is to say, here's what we found, here's how this might have happened. And unless we are completely confident in our beliefs, we're never going to say we absolutely think this is who did it or who didn't. But we are going to say we have a ton of questions and here's what could have happened. So a huge red flag for me is literally the first day of the investigation, they had all party guests in one room and interviewed them as a group. That is like interviewing 101. You keep the witnesses apart because you don't want each witness to know what the other person is saying. Then. Then they know, like, oh, well, she said that. So I'm going to continue to tell. To tell that lie. And then two weeks happened before any individual was interviewed. And the first person interviewed was Sarah Smith. And she expressed doubts that she fell. She did not give an alternate. Like, here's what might have happened. She just expressed doubts that. That she fell.

[B]

I feel like that's really critical. Like, she's like, she goes into this thing and she says, I don't know what happened, but I'm just not convinced that she just fell and that was it. That's the whole story. Like, that's really big coming from somebody who was there.

[A]

Right. And who friends individually interviewed when she was removed from the group. But the fact that they interviewed them as a group first. Like that is. That is absolutely not.

[B]

Yeah. There's also all the stories of even when they were being individually interviewed that Jean Meyers kept coming into the room during the interviews uninvited. And do we have. Are you going to talk about the Dunkin Donuts issue? Just to make clear. And Ashley, I'm going to let you take this part and talk about it. But Jean Meyers, during this whole investigation came very, what seemed like flirtatious with investigators and especially the lead detective on the case and calling him instead of detective, calling him Mike and texting him pictures of the party or whatever, like trying to be in like friend, friendy with the detectives. And she inappropriately went into the investigator rooms a few times. And one of the times she came in, she brought Dunkin Donuts gift cards for the investigators, which is so grossly inappropriate. I think anyone could figure out that when you're being investigated for a death, a homicide on your property, to bring gift cards to the investigators is really gross. I would understand if she went in and said, can get anyone a cup of coffee if she was hosting them or something. But like a bribe. And then I'm just going to tell you, can I. Should we just jump to the really disgusting part?

[A]

Go for it.

[B]

There is a screenshot online that you can see of Jean Myers and two of the other partygoer friends after the these incidents. It was Covid times, right? So it was like in 2020, wearing Dunkin Donut mask with a caption that says the best masks ever. If, you know, you know, sick, sick, making a joke out of the bribe that she attempted to put out for officers and investigators in the, in the case. And I know you might think, well, that's not really an appropriate bribe, but it's still ingratiation. It's still trying to get them to see you as somebody who's like, kind and good and there's reciprocity that gets involved. They're like, look, I gave you gift cards. You can't possibly think I'm bad.

[A]

Well, so the hashtag if you know, you know is honestly the most concerning part for me because it's just implying if you know, you know, and you're like, well, what do you know? Because now we can get into some of the other stuff in the investigation, like Jose Barrera getting into documents. I just feel like the, the masks in the picture with the hashtag show or give me such concerns about the transparency and the integrity of the investigation. Like if you're making if you're making this a joke, was the whole investigation a joke and some sort of COVID up? Okay, so can we talk about Jose Barrera and what he did and then a little bit of about Mike Christian? So Jose Barrera was a pretrial services offer who officer who was at the party. He was fired in 2018 after it was discovered that he accessed confidential documents related to the Tamela case and leaked personal information, including the address and phone number of a family member. You and I talked a lot, lot about how this could be because he was upset and worried and because he is involved and he wanted to see what are they coming at me for. But we also talked about how it might be human nature if, you know, they are looking at you to be curious and be like, I wonder what they're looking at in an attempt to just gather information. Not to try to protect yourself, but gather information.

[B]

Yes. I mean, okay, just to give the example that we talked about, there are HIPAA laws in medicine that you can't access people's medical files without either explicit written permission or because of a medical need. So even as a provider, like my husband cannot go into anyone's medical records that he wants to. He can only go into his own patients. And they audit these things, actually. And you hear about all the time that people are fired for inappropriately accessing things. It's a privacy law. Right. Because here's the thing. If you knew that the president was in the hospital and you could access their medical record with just searching their name, and wouldn't you be tempted to. Wouldn't you be tempted to take a look and see what was going on with the president's medical records? I mean, I can see why you would want to if it was something that you were trying to keep up with and you're like, hey, I have access to this information. It was not smart of him. It was not smart. But do I think that indicates that he was involved? No, I think it indicates that he wasn't smart about that.

[A]

I do find it interesting though that he also used access to that. So Michelle Graves, who's her best friend, has been extremely vocal about feeling like this investigation was not done. Well, I do not think that Tamla fell to her death, or if she did, I feel like there was a cover up. And part of Jose accessing that file was basically publicly doxxing Michelle, her best friend, to try to get her to stop talking. That just feels A, gross, B, you're threatening her safety, and C, if you really weren't involved in any way, shape or form, and you are part of the legal system. Can't you just step back and. And let the system do its job?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who's he trying to protect? And why is he trying to silence her best friend?

[B]

Yes. Look, I think a lot of people think somebody was involved here and that Jose is part of it because he was at the forefront of this, I think, with being part of the police force, with this action, of some of. Of being in and of being the 911 caller. But here's the thing is, I think he did some things that make it seem like he was unlikely to be involved. One of them is right away, he told investigators immediately, you have cameras. There are cameras that will show exactly what happened. Why would you say that if you knew what happened and you were somehow involved in something bad? Here's what's crazy about it, is we cannot verify what actually happened to these videos. Reports online say that there were video recordings, but the police never asked for them. We do do know that police never acquired video recordings, and some people have alleged that. Jean Meyer says, oops, I guess I must have deleted them. Other sources say either the batteries were dead, which I have battery operated video cameras, and if I am not on top of it, they can actually absolutely die. And then I wouldn't have recordings for five or six days until I actually charged those. So I could see that being possible. But others said even that the alarm company, they weren't working or their batteries were dead or something. And the alarm company had reached out the week prior to alert the homeowners that, like, the cameras were not operational. And so this I don't know either that's really premeditated that they had the cameras off or coincidental, but it's really hard to figure out. So maybe, maybe this is either way worse than we thought with Jose Barrera, or he's not involved.

[A]

Right. We also had questions about Jose when it came to his insistence of not touching the body, not moving the body, because we thought if he was involved in this and he had had a scuffle with her, that would seem like a really simple opportunity to get his handprints all over her and be like, of course my hand, My fingerprints were all over her. You told me to check her pulse. You told me to move her. You told me to see if she was breathing. So the fact that he was like, no, I'm not touching her was just another question you. You. I had about it. So the other guy that was fired was Mike Christian. He was a lead detective on the case, and he resigned after he shared information about the case with two women who he had extramarital affairs with. Here's the thing. Maybe he was sharing it because he was trying to cover something up. But also, this just seems like he's just trying to be a cool guy with these women he's having an affair with and just share some information.

[B]

Frankly, I think that the guy sucks at his job, just like Jose Barrera sucked at his job of staying out of the file. They're idiots, but do I think that they're involved? I actually think no matter how you look at it, the detective here, Corporal Mike Christian, who was the lead detective, I think he has. He is complicit in this whole incident. He did not investigate this properly in a way that could make this more certain one way or the other. And it leaves these questions open.

[A]

I think something interesting happened. Her best friend had questions from the start and was very vocal. We talked about her, Michelle Graves. But the women who were at the sleepover filed a lawsuit against her, alleging defamation, claiming that her accusations of murder had caused irreparable damage to their reputations. Graves dismissed the lawsuit as an intimidation tactic and stood by her statements immediately.

[B]

Yeah, here's the thing. It very well could be. And again, I look forward to talking about our various theories. I think something to talk about. And one of the things that's concerning is there are allegations online that emerged that Mike Christian, this. That lead detective, said racial things and racist remarks. He denies it, and his deputies deny any of anything to do with that and said it was taken out of context. But I think. Interesting that there's questions about race there. I'd love us to get into Forsyth county and its history a little bit because I think it's probably relevant.

[A]

He. He also, other than just racist, horrible things, referred to Tamela as porch girl. Correct?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's just so dismissive of a victim. And that makes me feel like, did you take any of it seriously? Like, if you're just calling her porch girl, did you give a shit? Did you care? Or was saying she fell the easiest explanation? So that's the one you went with.

[B]

Totally hate it.

[A]

So let's get into the three pieces of evidence that were found that you and I just had some questions about.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The first being the placement of her arms. And I feel like you listened to the 911 call and had questions about this. No, because didn't they say on the 911 call they said something about hands.

[B]

Down, so there's the hands down thing is when they first found Tamla, she was palms up by her side. Like her arms directly by her side because she was face down. So her palms were up. Which is why Jose Barrera reported seeing the cut on her wrist. Right. It was on the inside of her wrist. And I think part of the self inflicted question is if it was a straight line cut right there on her wrist. That is sort of that classic traditional, if you cut yourself, would. That's how it would look. So maybe he was just sort of struck by that. Later there were photographs and her arm was up above her head or like palm down, bent at the elbow. So there were questions about did they move her arm? And one of the podcasts I listened to really went deep into this and made it like, I don't think she fell. They broke her arm on purpose to look like it, like she felt. I thought it was ridiculous, like an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. Like you're not a medical examiner. And I think both of them said there was certainly a fall involved. And then maybe there was an altercation before the fall. Right. But the laceration on her heart, I don't think you can deny that kind of thing. In the blunt force trauma, they this. What's interesting about that is that no one had an explanation for it. And that really came into play as some big evidence that they were lying. They moved her body. Except for that two years later, an investigator said, you know what? I think that maybe I forgot. I did check for a pulse and maybe I did move her arm when I did that, and I just kind of forgot about that. So it's like you don't even know investigators were on the scene and you don't know who moved this arm. And it became this huge piece of evidence that now is just dispelled by an investigator in five seconds. May or may not be true. May or may not be the case. This is the problem with eyewitnesses is they're really bad at remembering things. So I, I just want to say that was an interesting piece of it that I think could be nefarious, could not be. Okay, the next piece of evidence is her being fully face down. Like, as in she was her first head was not turned to the side, her face was down to the ground.

[A]

Which I, I looked at this in a million different ways and asked ChatGPT and the Internet a million different questions about if you fell, the, the position of your face and your head. Every piece of information I could find said, if you fell, you're turning Your head. So it would be much more likely you would be on the left side of your face or the right side of your face, not face down in the ground. That is not a natural position to land.

[B]

Totally. And I get that. I get that allegation. But I also think if you actually did fall probably more than 14ft, right? It's probably if you were going over a balcony, you were up even a couple more feet, right? 16ft or something, you. And you fell from that height onto a hard ground. If you look at the photograph graph of the ground, this is not like soft, lush grass that she landed on with topsoil under it. This is like solid, dry dirt with a little sprinkling of grass on it. This is. This is just the multiple blunt force trauma, the multiple abrasions. Maybe she bounced. I doubt that you just land and that's it. I don't know. But wouldn't you think that you would bounce? And so maybe that initial hit was on the side of her head or the top of her head or some other which way, and then she landed flat on her face after that.

[A]

And this is incredibly morbid, and I don't even like to talk about it or say it, but the other thing we don't know because she wasn't found for so long is, was her death immediate? Did she hit the ground and she was dead, or did she hit the ground and try to move and eventually ended with her face down out of exhaustion from trying to. To move herself? So there are just a lot of questions about how you could end up in that position. But here's the other piece of evidence that I do find. I have a lot of questions about. There were two different types of cigarettes found. And I don't know about you, but I know in my family we have a long history of smokers, and they smoked one type of cigarette their entire lives. There was no two types of cigarettes.

[B]

Yes. This is very, very suspicious because they are so adamant that she was the only smoker. Only smoker. Only smoker. Only smoker. Except for that they found a second lighter and cigarette type of cigarette. Could that have been an investigator? They were so sloppy. Maybe, but I don't think so. I think Jose said he picked up a second or a cigarette and lighter and moved them. Right. And assumed they were hers. I know he. I know he moved a lighter and a cigarette, but I don't know if it was like two kinds or one kind of. But they found a second one at the scene, which really makes me think somebody else stepped out there to smoke with her.

[A]

Me too. Just knowing what I know about cigarettes and smoking makes me feel like there was someone else out there. And maybe they weren't even with her at the time, but there was someone else around this situation. But also now I have questions about why wasn't the DNA tested on both of those? Like, why wouldn't that have been.

[B]

No kidding.

[A]

Again with the botched investigation. Why would you not take that cigarette butt and see whose mouth it came from? That seems very simple.

[B]

Well, and here's the thing, okay? The woman who was. Who administered Xanax to other people, she lied. She told investigators she had never given out her Xanax to anyone because she knew it was a controlled substance. And then they found text message evidence of her two different occasions giving out Xanax to other people. Like, sure, let me bring you some of my Xanax. And she was so anxious and took her medications so seriously and was so important, she wore the Xanax in a necklace around her neck. Okay? So this woman, she's like the Xanax queen, and it's total BS that she lied. I would never give my Xanax out. And then there's Xanax in Tamla's system. Like, how could she have possibly gotten that from you? You gave it to her, Right? Okay. These women clearly are willing to lie to protect their reputation. So one of them is a drunken closet smoker. That's it.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

One of them is like, I secretly smoke, but you can never tell the other ladies. They'll totally judge me. And went out with Tamla to have a cigarette. That's what I think.

[A]

And we know those people. I know people who I see smoking, and I'm like, I didn't know you smoked. And they're like, I only smoke when I drink. I'm like, okay, that's a. That's a whole thing. But I do think what you said. If she was that quick to lie to police about Xanax and just like, oh, no, I never give it to anyone. One, maybe she thought her white woman privilege, which we can say because we're white women, would let her just get away with that lie. And they wouldn't check. Right? You just said, no, I didn't give it to her. There's no way the police are going to be worried about her and look at hers. And then they did look, and they're like, no, actually, within the last week, you offered it to someone else. So this is something that you do.

[B]

Yeah. And it makes Me think she was worried about somehow being indicated in the crime in some way for giving her Xanax. And so obviously there is something there, right?

[A]

Like, did you give it to her? And we know mixing Xanax and being at a 0.24 is not good for you. It is going to completely impact you. So did she give it to her then she saw her fall or they had a scuffle and she thought, oh, no, I was the last one at the scene. I gave her Xanax, which maybe made her lose, like, you know when it's like, don't have that last drink, don't do this. That's when you just get to the point of no return. Did the Xanax do that? And she just thought, I gave that to her. So now I'm complicit in her death.

[B]

Yes. Okay. There's one more piece of evidence we have to talk about that I think we. We didn't say we were going to bring up, but we have to.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The lack of blood.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So there was not blood around her body and they did not find blood elsewhere in the home either, which makes it seem suspicious. And we asked my husband. There were reports that this was an open fracture of her wrist, that there was a little bit of bone sticking out of her wrist and that. That he said certainly would ooze blood. You would have to have some blood. Maybe, though it wasn't a lot. I'm just unclear. Did they say there was very little blood or no blood?

[A]

They actually said in the reports I saw, which will link that there was a little blood, but it was on the other side of her body. So her right wrist was broken where the bone was sticking out and there was a little bit of blood, but it was on the left. So how did blood get to be on the other side of her body?

[B]

Yeah, that's that to me, I don't know that these investigators, they just kill me. How could you see someone who's dead from a fall at a party and not be like, shut it all down big time investigation? We're gonna go through every little tiny bit of evidence to make sure we know what happened here.

[A]

But I think this is where we get into it. And it's really important to talk about the history of this county because could it also be the cops get there, they see all the white women and immediately are fed the story that she fell and they just take that story and that's what they decide to run with as a community of other white people from this town that Has a incredible history of racism that it's just kind of an unsaid, unwritten, like, we. We've got you. Yeah, she fell. She fell. So let's. Do you want to talk about Forsyth County?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

A little bit. Or do you want me to.

[B]

No, I totally can. Here is the thing. Okay. In 1912, so over a hundred years ago, there was the alleged assault and murder of a white woman named May Crow. And several black men were accused. And so one of the men was lynched by a white mob. And in the aftermath, white residents used violence and intimidation to forcibly remove virtually all black people, over a thousand black residents from the county. And Forsyth became known as a sundown county known for having no black residents for decades. And they had signs and threats that it ensured it that way. In 1987, there, in January, there was something called the Brotherhood march. It was a civil rights march that basically challenged the whiteness of the community. And they wanted to end intimidation and fear in Forsyth County. This led to an outpouring of anger among the white community. There were death threats made to the organizers, and a group group of about 75 black activists, mostly black activists, came forward. And there was like a short march in the town, the county seat, to the count, county seat of Cumming. So this is where this all occurred. And the goal was just to speak out against fear and intimidation. And it escalated into a very, very violent scene. Very violent and ugly screaming. There were people screaming white power, raising their fists. There was somebody carrying a noose. It was just this really scary demonstration in 1987 of a lot of explicit racism coming out from the town. And you and I talked about this, about the history of Coeur d' Alene, Idaho, recently. Right. That you were in Coeur d' Alene. And I just said, it's not a place I would mess with because the Aryan Brotherhood was headquartered there. The Aryan brotherhood disbanded. But it doesn't mean that the people disappeared. Right. They still exist and they're still there. 87. I mean, I was born in 1980, so I was seven years old at this time. My parents were alive. Like older siblings were teenagers. Those people still are alive and exist and live in that county that were there in 1987. These racial issues from recent history, the people who were a part of them as white supremacists, do not just disappear. So the racism of this county seemed very much alive in the 1980s. I think it still has been sort of a. Let's see, Mona's sort of more of a white dominated area. Right. Because of the history. And now, obviously black people do live there, but that doesn't mean that these women that were at this party weren't raised in a community by people who they also. They're about the same age as us, Right? So they. They were a few years older than us. They were 9, 10 years old when this violent march was happening in their town, in their tiny little town. So they were exposed to this. And what were their parents teaching them? I'm just saying there's a lot of history in this town. There's a lot of history in this town of racist action.

[A]

So still in Forsyth county, only 4% are black. 4%.

[B]

Yeah. You just. It's gonna be hard to convince me or anyone else that she got fully equitable treatment being a black woman as the victim. Maybe inside that house and also maybe in the investigation.

[A]

A topic for a different day, because this would be a whole nother podcast. But you and I had a conversation about this just reminds me of Christianity and white women involved with Christianity and that because of that, that's a blanket of like, I'm kind, I'm nice, I'm not racist. When really they're some of the most racist, horrible people you have ever met. Okay, this is shiny exterior. When honestly, you're really the worst.

[B]

Feel like this was one of the kids. Should we get into our theories of all the things that might have happened? I feel like I. This was one of the things that really spoke to me on Reddit. I went on Reddit and I was just looking at what people think. Some people were like, she. I think she fell down the stairs. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting. It could explain the fall. And then she was tossed over the balcony to make it look like she fell off the balcony on her own. I don't know. There's just all kinds of things. We have no idea what could have happened. It could have been a total accident. Like, she fell down the stairs. They all panicked. They're like, this woman just died in my house. I have to. We have to get her outside. And they cleaned up the blood. This is the thing is, I just. I don't think everybody there was involved. But okay, someone on Reddit, this is what they said. They said, I work with and know these women, this kind of women. And it was just eye opening for me. I have lived in the South. I understand it. These are women, like you said, who would say, oh, I'm not racist. Oh, I'm not racist. But then behind closed doors, when they get the opportunity. They're like, well, I'm not racist. But, you know, black people need to do better or whatever. Like, they spew their racist garbage. We see this. We see this everywhere. We have people who said they weren't racist. These white people, they're not racist. But he hung. On Martin Luther King Jr. Day, he hung a flag outside of his business. This is not someone I'm associated with, by the way. But other people were like, he is not a racist, man. He hung a flag of watermelon and fried chicken outside on Martin Luther King Jr. Day. Like, you're a bad. You're racist. You're a racist person. So. But I'm not racist. But that's like. That's like such a classic catchphrase. I'm not racist. Anyone who's spewing, I'm not racist. You probably are. So these women, somebody said they thought that it could have been like a drunken. Well, you're one of the good black people, right? You're one of the good ones. And it could have been really offensive. And it makes me wonder, did they have an altercation of some kind? A drunken fight, Maybe racially motivated, maybe not. I mean, maybe racially topic. I don't doubt that there was racial motivation that happened. If these women got into an argument with Tamla and it turned violent, someone pushed her, someone pushed her down the stairs or pushed her on the balcony and she fell, something like that happened and they agreed to all cover it up, I do think that's very, very possible. And the things that fit into that well are they took her cell phone, they're fighting with her. They don't want her to call and tell anyone what they said. They gave her a Xanax to try to chill her out. She was mad. I don't know. That one, I think is very possible.

[A]

And then in 2020, make light of it, which is when. So the case was reopened and it was still found to be an accidental fall from blunt force trauma injuries. But to do that Dunkin Donuts Post with those masks, and that just makes me question the whole thing and think at the very least, you are basically mocking a victim and what you did to mess with this investigation.

[B]

Totally. And they obviously botched the investigation all the way through. I mean, what, they took five photos at the total at the scene end of her body. Five photos of the whole thing, not 505. They also didn't take any photos of the autopsy.

[A]

And no fingerprints were taken from the balcony rail. So why would you not just check and See who else came out here whose fingerprints are on this? Like how. Who was here? It just seems like investigation 101.

[B]

Absolutely bizarre. Yeah, I feel like maybe it was just totally a fluke accident. But also it's really hard to ignore some of the suspicious evidence. And as you gather it all together, it's hard to think, no, something happened with at least one of the party going guests. I don't know which one and I don't want to say, oh, it's Jose Barrera. I don't know, it could be Jean Myers, it could be Bridget. Some of them probably had no idea. Like Sarah, who said, I have a hard time believing she just fell. That's really telling. And they clearly instigators did not want to find out.

[A]

Sarah also makes me think, I know we have to wrap this up, but that was she found at this timeline because they said they found her around 7:30. They don't call until 9. So is Sarah someone. They woke up and said, here's the story we're telling. Like there could be a handful of people who know what happened and a handful of people who decided to go along with it. I think the only thing we know to be 100% true is that we don't know what happened that night. And Tamela has been given zero justice whatsoever. Honest look into the investigation and honest, unbiased look into how did this happen and who's going to be held accountable. And if it was an accidental death, that is a horrifically sad way to go. But at the very least, her family deserves actual answers.

[B]

I agree. And I feel so sorry for them all. I feel terrible for her children and her husband. I mean, what an awful, awful story. Very tragic. And all of those people who did mock it and not take it seriously, who were there can just, they can just. I hope they have a really, really crappy day. That's what I'll say.

[A]

Have the day they deserve.

[B]

Yeah, they just need. I'm sure they're getting their karma. I'm sure they're getting their due with the hatred that they get from people. And I just really hope that that hits them because they're not doing the right thing by being as transparent as possible.

[A]

Right. If there are any changes in the case, like with all the other ones we cover, we will update you guys and let you know. And we wanted to let you know on June 15th we will be dropping another true crime episode that will be for Patreon members only on Daniel Marsh. So head to Patreon, become a member and hear the horrific, horrific story of Daniel Marsh. Thanks for listening.

[B]

For more content, find us on Patreon at the Creepy Book Club.

[A]

Happy reading.