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Books With Your Besties
What you would do if your kiddo committed a crime? The Last One At The Wedding.
00:43:07
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- [00:01]
A
Hi, I'm Emily.
- [00:03]
B
I'm Ashley.
- [00:04]
A
And this is Books with your besties.
- [00:08]
B
Hey, friends. Jump right in with Emily and I as we hit record before we actually started talking about the book. It would be a nightmare. It's just pitch black in my room because it's 4pm don't mind me.
- [00:21]
A
You need a Christmas tree like me.
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B
I know. We're putting them up on Friday.
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A
I'm sorry. I'm so hungry.
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B
Do you ever get the Trader Joe's brand jelly beans? Oh, God, they're so good. They're more like Mike and Ikes than jelly beans. Durham was like, what are these? I'm like, I know. They're so good.
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A
I need to try them. I think you'd line up. I've never bought them. I think their gummies are gross, so I never buy their candy that much.
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B
I do too. But the. The jelly beans are good.
- [00:52]
A
Testing, testing. This is how my setup is. So hopefully we're not using video.
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B
We're not. We're good. Just. Just the schmadio.
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A
This is how I really want to sit.
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B
You can, because nobody's gonna see it. I could too. I could sit like this.
- [01:12]
A
We really should probably. We should probably submit a clip of or a picture, like a still picture of this being like, this is how we hang out. You actually do see a lot of people on podcasts who are, like, laid, relaxed on a couch. And part of it is when I sit up all tall like that, like I'm on a zoom, I just get tired and I don't feel natural, and I don't feel like it's just a conversation. I just want it to be a conversation.
- [01:37]
B
I know if I really wanted to get comfortable, I'd go lay in my bed.
- [01:41]
A
Okay, so let's. So we're talking about the last one at the Wedding by Jason Rakulik today. Great book. Ashley, what do you rate it?
- [01:51]
B
I gave it 4 1/2 out of 5 stars. What did you rate it?
- [01:57]
A
4.75.
- [01:59]
B
You. You always win.
- [02:01]
A
God, I like to go a little higher than you, no matter what it is.
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B
When. When we had our book chat this week with our members, every single member gave it a 4 or higher, except one person who gave it a 1. What?
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A
Why?
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B
I know the person who gave it a one really, really, really could not connect with and did not like any of the characters whatsoever. She could not get over. She just felt like Frank was just making too many mistakes and was just being dumb. Basically. She was like, he was too stupid. I could not get Past it, which I could not disagree more with. I loved Frank more than any other character in the book.
- [02:46]
A
Me too. Absolutely loved Frank and I thought he was being incredibly smart. What is dumb about him, like trying to figure it out and investigate the entire time? Like having his eyes open from second one, he was like, why is this kid acting this way toward me at their penthouse and is this the right choice for her? So I didn't feel like he was being foolhardy at all.
- [03:12]
B
No. And I honestly felt also like Frank was playing the hand he was dealt and he was playing it really smart because he didn't want to push his daughter away. They had just reconciled. So as he starts seeing these red flags, he's bringing them to her attention but he can't full on just say everything he thinks because then he's going to risk losing her again.
- [03:33]
A
That's very true. And I, I loved his character who I pictured him as sort of a, you know, a Kurt Russell type. Like a, like a handsome, could play a blue collar kind of dad.
- [03:50]
B
That's what Jason said. So I said the same thing. I'm like, I was team Frank from the start. I said he reminded me of everybody's dad. And he said he was based off his dad and he's like, I made him a UPS driver because he's like aval, they make a great living. And he's like B of all, a lot of them are happier than anybody I know. He's like my plumber, my UPS driver. So he was like, Frank was just a guy who was pretty content with his day to day life.
- [04:19]
A
Dude, UPS is a phenomenal job from what I hear. Like I shouldn't say job career because it is a really, really great living that people make. It's good benefits, it's great hours and they work super hard. But I love my UPS driver. Like they are just the nicest, happiest people.
- [04:40]
B
I completely agree. He just, Jason said I wanted to give him a job like that where it wasn't the haves and the have nots. He's like Frank struggling at all. But Frank was just, you know, happy day to day happy kind of guy. The only thing he was missing was that relationship with his daughter.
- [04:56]
A
Yeah. A normal person. And then there's Aiden and Errol, the other side.
- [05:06]
B
We can't even talk about Errol yet. We have to put that on pause because it'll make me gag once we start.
- [05:11]
A
Which is so funny because I'll have to tell you my percept perception of Errol. But Yes. So we meet Maggie. We meet Aiden. She's this very beautiful, sleek, cool, 30 something, and she's engaged to Aiden, who is an artistic, kind of brooding young man. Right.
- [05:35]
B
Yeah. And initially tells her dad, like, he's a painter. And her dad doesn't realize until he's invited over for dinner that he's part of this tech billionaire fam.
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A
Right.
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B
Red flags immediately with Aiden's behavior.
- [05:51]
A
It was a great, gripping storyline from the jump, I thought.
- [05:56]
B
I completely agree, I think, with Maggie also. I don't know if you felt this way, but right when they reconciled, it seemed like she was unwilling to. To answer too many questions. And Frank was unwilling to push too hard because he just felt so lucky to have communication with her again. But we didn't know why they fell out in the first place.
- [06:18]
A
No, we had no idea. And also, I felt like she was just trying to be like, dad, just come and chill, you know, like, just come and say hello and let's just start there. And let's not make this. This big answering all the questions up front thing. Yeah, I. I got it. And I thought he was being a great dad, trying to really just mend that relationship. I mean, he's the parent and he wants that relationship.
- [06:41]
B
I also thought a wedding is a realistic reason why someone would reconcile, Right?
- [06:48]
A
Yes.
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B
That is the reason you would pick up the phone. So I kind of, at some point wasn't too worried about why they had a falling out because I thought, well, I feel like this story is more about how they're moving forward together.
- [07:00]
A
Yeah. I figured out we would eventually know, but it wouldn't be something. I don't know. I just, I. I didn't really think too hard about what it would be. Okay, then we get to. And I don't want to go too slow through this book because there's so many things that we can talk about and go on tangents about, but. But we're just introducing characters, right? So Tammy and Abigail. Oh, my gosh. That made me so enraged that Tammy picked up a foster child to bring to a wedding. If I was Frank, I would be pissed. Also.
- [07:29]
B
We have a member. She said I could say her name. Her name is Drew, and she always comes on with her aunt. And I had to change the time of our book chat so Drew couldn't make it on. Drew was so beyond enraged with Tammy's behavior that she made Auntie M read her notes to the entire group about how much she hated Tammy. I mean, I just.
- [07:52]
A
It was so inconsiderate. This Is his estranged daughter's wedding where he's gonna go meet his in laws for the first time. You are his only family member going. His sister. There was no mention of anybody else on Maggie's side. It was family or close friends, family friends, anything like that. So his one support person and she drags along a little girl with lice.
- [08:19]
B
The lice part. The lice part. People were like, could we have chose something less contagious? Like, why did it have to be lice?
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A
I think it was supposed to be visceral. Like we were supposed to be like, oh, my God. She put, she put her head on his shoulder. Move your head.
- [08:35]
B
Move your head, Frank. Well, and then not to get into too many details, but when they get to this, like super lavish retreat where the wedding is going to be, Tammy is kind of hands off with Abigail's her name. And there aren't too many restrictions around what she's eating and how she's behaving. And, and I understand you have to let kids be kids, but sometimes I was like, tammy, come on, you have got to say something to her.
- [09:03]
A
Yeah. There were a number of moments with the child, I mean, that made me really angry. Like, sorry, but the whole she'll sleep in the big bed and you sleep in a twin bed. The fact that that happened, I was like, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Like it would. Why didn't tip me go and talk to someone about an exterminator instead or switching cabins or something.
- [09:25]
B
Right. There were so many other options than just making them troops or him picking.
- [09:30]
A
Up the chicken cutlet she dropped. Like, that's Tammy's responsibility. And also just pick it up and Tammy, you deal with it and take care of it.
- [09:38]
B
Yeah. The other thing about Tammy and I thought this was a bigger theme in the book, was as soon as she was offered shares and cash in the company, it was kind of like anything, anything goes. Like, we're not going to, we're not going to ask too many questions. Which just shows you money and the, the impact that money can have on people.
- [10:00]
A
Well, thinking about it from that perspective, I mean, one thing is, is Frank was comfortable, but Tammy was not comfortable. So she had financial hardship and they made that pretty clear. Not like she was totally destitute, but certainly not not able to make whatever life decisions she wanted. And everybody probably has a price. And at that point, it was just whatever's going on with the relationships in the wedding, not really my business. I'm gonna let it go. Let's not ask too many questions. Kind Of a thing.
- [10:34]
B
Yeah.
- [10:34]
A
What would your price be?
- [10:37]
B
I know. I. I think there is a price, especially if I'm someone who is struggling day to day, and it doesn't seem like it's negatively impacting anybody else. It didn't seem like if Tammy accepted this monetary amount, it was impacting anyone else. It was just helping her.
- [10:53]
A
Yeah. And I think that the situation was nebulous enough that you could convince yourself and there had really been nothing wrong that was happening at this point. There's no wrongdoing. This is just for me to, like, stop probing what is happening with other people's family, you know, and relationships. Like, it's not my business, and I just need to back out of it and so forth. $10 million. Okay.
- [11:22]
B
Something that Jason talked about on our interview with him, which is on our Patreon, we asked, like, how did you, quote, unquote, research this amount of wealth? Because it's so foreign to most of us. You know, when you get there and you have to set your clock 15 minutes back because that's what they tell you to do and sign NDAs. And it was fascinating. He said when he was in the world of editing, he'd see these authors get really big, really quick, and he's like, they would change. And he just said he saw it and he's like, I felt like I had a real inside track to what this kind of money can do to people.
- [12:02]
A
Oh, that's very interesting.
- [12:04]
B
Yeah. Yes. And then he had us cut out a part. I'm not going to say what it is. He said we could say this part, though. He's just like, there are a few people in particular that he no longer has relationships with because he's like, the. The money just changed who they were.
- [12:19]
A
Isn't that interesting? I wonder about that in terms of personalities, of. Of people with wealth, how it changes them, that the people like Jason Rakulik don't let it change them. Like, what's the X factor there? What makes them be able to maintain their regular life status and not try to climb for something higher.
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B
Right. And not try to or not step on people to get there or be willing to, you know, hurt people who have helped you along the way?
- [12:54]
A
I'm just saying that if it was me and I was given hundreds of thousands of dollars like that that were going to help me retire, I'd change, too. I'd just be like, forget it. I don't care about anyone anymore.
- [13:04]
B
You would not. But I would. I would change. I saw someone say this today. It Was like, if I became a millionaire, like, it wouldn't change who I was, but you'd see me less because I would just, like, not be coming to work. I'd be on trips, just. Yeah.
- [13:23]
A
No, I can't. It's just hard to imagine. Like, it's hard to imagine. And it's also hard to imagine wanting to become someone different and not sort of being aware that that could happen and doing things to prevent it.
- [13:36]
B
Yeah. We're jumping all over the place, we being me. But we can't end this without me asking you about this, because I feel like you've talked about this with me before, and Jason talked a little bit about it. When we finally learn who Maggie is and the various crimes she's committed and people she has hurt and things she's covered up, it seems like Frank, A, kind of feels bad for basically not doing what his daughter asked and not protecting her, but, B, that sometimes parents are really willing to cover up what their kids do because you don't see them. You see them as your kids and not as independent humans, and you always want to protect them. Just talk to me about that.
- [14:24]
A
Well, so we talked about this with the Sherry Lapena book, because the premise of that book is, did the boyfriend kill the girl? That's like the early on premise. Right. And the parents, their involvement with the son, that was maybe the suspect in this case. And so we talked about, would you. How far would you go to protect your children? And I think I was more pedantic, black and white in terms of right and wrong with it. And, like, no, I wouldn't protect my little murderer child. Then. Then you were. I mean, not that you said, oh, I would protect my murderer child, but maybe I was a little bit more like, there has to be accountability. And I think I would. I want my kid to grow up to be a good person. And if they're not a good person, then I. I want them to take accountability and learn from it and not just help them cover it up.
- [15:15]
B
Yeah, I think I was more just knowing myself. I know in the end I would do the right thing, but I think I might hesitate. So the Chicago Tribune actually asked parents this in a survey. They said, I'm curious about how readers will respond anonymously to the issue I raised the other day. If, God forbid, you should find yourself in such a situation, knowing your child is blatantly guilty of a crime that will result in decades, if not life in prison, would you cover it up? So the question is, my child committed a murder, so not Just a crime, a murder. And 54% said they would call a lawyer and then call police, no questions asked. 15% said I would put my child first and assist in the COVID up. And 32% said I want to think I would do the right thing. But I'm not really sure. I.
- [16:14]
A
Okay, you know, that's about probably the percentage of the way that people are, like, good at their core versus not that great.
- [16:24]
B
But it made me think of three super highly publicized cases where there have been theories, nothing has been proven, that maybe parents covered it up. So on Netflix right Now, there's the JonBenet documentary. And you know, one of the theories is that her brother killed her and her parents covered it up.
- [16:45]
A
Yes. Don't tell me anything because I cannot wait to watch that documentary. I've only heard about the case, like maybe 30 or 40 times, so not very many.
- [16:54]
B
I went into the documentary very, like, what are they gonna tell me? Like, I, I listen to all things true crime. I learned so much.
- [17:02]
A
That's why I love new Netflix documentaries. Like there was a, there was a Lacy Peterson one that was so good. There was one about Chris Watts, you know, the guy who killed his family.
- [17:13]
B
That one was horrifying.
- [17:15]
A
Horrifying. So disturbing. But for some reason, I can't look away from those true crime documentaries. So I really can't wait to watch the JonBenet Ramsey one. And yeah, there is that. Like, did the parents cover up the brother did it. Right.
- [17:28]
B
Theory. And they talk about it. I won't give any spoilers. But then the two other cases, as I was thinking about this, the Casey Anthony case, people have always thought maybe her mom, like, it was an accidental murder by Casey and that her mom helped cover it up.
- [17:44]
A
I think it was her dad.
- [17:45]
B
Oh, was it her dad? One of.
- [17:46]
A
Yeah, because her mom seemed to be. Have no clue. And was the one that called 911 like, my, my granddaughter's been missing.
- [17:54]
B
You're right. And then the other one I thought about. Did you listen to the podcast in your own backyard about Kristen Smart?
- [18:02]
A
I think I started it, but I don't know that I finished it.
- [18:05]
B
So that one, her boyfriend at the time killed her and her dad, his dad not only covered it up, but helped move the body. And it took decades to solve it. And they recently solved it. And now they're both. I'm trying to see. They're both doing time in prison. The son was charged with first degree murder and his dad was charged with accessory after the fact.
- [18:32]
A
Wow.
- [18:33]
B
I know. So all these Stories of people. The. The consensus I saw though, in reading through all the comments in the Chicago Tribune article and I'll link it was like, it totally depends on the crime completely.
- [18:47]
A
And here's the thing. This is a really dumb conversation. Not the conversation part. It's really interesting. But this is a really dumb thing to try to figure out because we actually have research evidence that we are super bad at perspective thinking. We don't actually know how we will behave in a situation before it happens. Like, researchers have brought people in and they give them all these scenarios. How do you think you would react? And then later they bring them back and some of those scenarios as they happen, they didn't react that way at all. And we don't even realize that we thought we would have reacted differently. So it's one of those hard things because when you look at crimes, you're like, he is not acting sad enough. I would be acting very sad. But you really don't know how you would be acting in that scenario. So I like to say I would do the right thing and I would get an attorney and I would turn my child in. But who knows? I'm probably one of the 15% crazies who cover the whole thing up and move the body.
- [19:39]
B
I did like that 30% said, I don't know. I was like, I feel like those people are being the most honest probably so just they don't know.
- [19:49]
A
And they like to think that they would do the right thing.
- [19:53]
B
Yes. And I did like two of the people who even said I would turn my kiddo and immediately said they would call a lawyer before police. I'm like, that's smart. That feels like a good. A good move.
- [20:04]
A
Totally. And I think it depends so much what happened. Right. If it's an accident driving versus like a manslaughter versus your child broke into someone's home and stabbed them for funsies like that I'm gonna go ahead and let the kid get turned in for the. For funsies one.
- [20:25]
B
You know, the super clear line that was drawn was self defense. Like if my kiddo reacted in self defense because someone was abusing them in a horrible way. Like, yeah, people were like, yeah, I'd. I'd be okay with that. I'd cover that up.
- [20:39]
A
Yeah, totally. Ellie Nestler in.
- [20:43]
B
Oh, oh, in the, in the courtroom? Yes, yes. Oh my gosh. Is there. There needs to be documentary about this? Is there not? I know.
- [20:52]
A
Why is there not? But okay, so Ellie Nestler, she's an example. It has happened other times, man. She Died young Unfortunately too in 2008 at 56 years old but 35 year old Christian camp employee. This is according to the Los Angeles Times by John Thurber. Daniel mark driver, a 35 year old Christian camp employee in the summer of 1988 allegedly sodomized a 7 year old and Willie Nestler. And Ellie Nestler was the mom. And in 1993 she went into the courtroom and shot him in the neck and head.
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B
And then was she, when she went to trial, was she found guilty?
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A
She pled not guilty by reason of insanity and was convicted on a lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter. She was sentenced to 10 years, but won an appeal and was released after three years.
- [21:46]
B
Oh my gosh. Oh, there is. Oh, there's a TV movie. 1999 TV movie. Judgment Day. We have to go. We gotta go make a documentary about this now.
- [21:54]
A
Seriously, why don't people write her story? Because that is awesome. And then she's like lauded as a kind of a cult hero, you know.
- [22:02]
B
Now I know what I'm doing tonight when I'm sitting at soccer, I'm gonna find a podcast about Ellie Nestler.
- [22:08]
A
There's a bunch of other ones like that. There's people who killed their kids, abuser in a crime of passion. And it's definitely considered just that like passion is a mitigating factor. Like it isn't. There's aggravating factors in crimes where aggravating is like, it makes it worse. Like you planned it out or you tried to hide the body or you cut them up. Those are aggravating factors. I know. Sorry. I have a sick, sick, sick mind. And then mitigating factors are things that are like, well, it was my child's abuser. And people are like, that makes a little better.
- [22:41]
B
You know, when I, my gut reaction when I hear like vigilante justice stories, I'm like, yep, that, that's okay. That one works for me.
- [22:50]
A
I just wouldn't be able to live with myself lying about an alibi, knowing that my child did something that resulted in murder. And I helped cover up her involvement. I think I could not on the day to day be okay.
- [23:09]
B
Yeah. What did you think of creepy Catherine in the window?
- [23:16]
A
Oh, I couldn't figure that out. That was so interesting. I mean, poor thing, just drugged and an alcoholic. Just had so much trauma. And what a, what a difficult, horrible life. Man. She was a good example of that. Money doesn't buy you happiness, right?
- [23:34]
B
And a good example of that you can be a victim and a villain. Like she Killed Dawn. But also when you look at Errol and all the affairs he had and how she was, you know, up in that attic on drugs and alcohol or whatever, that she also was a victim.
- [23:53]
A
Yeah. I think what they sometimes say, the saying is, mo money, mo problems. And she seemed like that.
- [24:02]
B
She did. And he did say it was paying homage to. Did you read the book, Rebecca?
- [24:07]
A
No.
- [24:08]
B
Oh, it's one of the first ones I read that got me excited about this type of genre. But he said he knew from the beginning he wanted a creepy person in the attic or like in a window.
- [24:18]
A
It is like a. Like a trope, like a classic thriller trope. I love that.
- [24:23]
B
Yeah, I. I do, too. I thought she was super creepy. And when he went in to see her and she was just so willing to tell him everything, Jason started laughing because he was like, well, is she a villain? And then he goes, I guess she broke a bottle over Dawn's head and.
- [24:36]
A
Murdered her a little bit. So a little bit there. Not great. Can we talk about the most horrifying part that you said was the most horrifying part? And I knew it was horrifying when I read it. It was horrifying, but also I reacted less so than. Than you did.
- [24:57]
B
So you explain. You explain the scene because I can't talk about it because I'll throw up in my mouth.
- [25:02]
A
Okay. So Frank walks into Maggie's cabin, hears that there is, like, he finds Maggie's cabin, going to try to find her. He walks in, hears something in the back bedroom, goes in, and Errol. It describes his face being between her legs and, like, fleshy face, wet face, turning to him. And it's like the. It's. The description is. Makes it sound vile, for sure. It's not something you would want to walk in and see anybody doing, but particularly probably your child with an older man. But you were so disgusted because he was. He was an old man.
- [25:44]
B
I just pictured him as. Also, I'm going to defend myself here because Jason said it's the most horrifying thing he's ever written in his life, that even when he was writing it, he was like, why am I writing this? Why am I writing this?
- [25:57]
A
No, it was definitely gross. When you said, you're going to get to the most horrifying part, I was like, is she talking about that or is there something worse? But listen, we. We read Lucinda Berry.
- [26:05]
B
So someone being having their ears cut off and their fingernails pulled out, then an old snow. Gross man with someone who felt more like my age.
- [26:17]
A
I cannot Disagree more. I mean, it was gross. But here's the thing, here's the thing. Someone your age, Maggie was like 32, whatever.
- [26:28]
B
A child of mine.
- [26:29]
A
And here's the thing, he was only 57. So I was thinking about this and I was thinking I didn't picture Errol as like a gross, washed up old man. He was described as, as like charming and handsome, I think, you know, or like just sort of debonair. Right. Okay, let me tell you about some 57 year old actors. And this is not who I was picturing exactly. But let me just tell you what 57 looks like. Brad Pitt, Keanu Reeves, George Clooney. I mean, these are older, some of them are older than 57. These are like late 50s, early 60s. Patrick Dempsey, Steve Carell. Like I, I just, I didn't have the same vision, I think, as you. And that's why it didn't gross me out so bad.
- [27:26]
B
I take back what I said. Now that you list those men, those, that those are all appropriate. I would read that page again in a heartbeat. I was picturing basically like Danny DeVito or some other not attractive, very old, sweaty, gross. Maybe it's because Elon Musk's dad's name is Errol. So I was picturing like an old, gross Elon Musk.
- [27:51]
A
Oh, well, that's why I didn't know that.
- [27:55]
B
Yeah, I don't know it either. And then I saw it, I'm like, that's why I had like a visceral reaction.
- [28:00]
A
Yeah, that would definitely ruin it for somebody. I would also be grossed out by a like much older Elon Musk.
- [28:08]
B
But then didn't it make you feel sad for Aiden? I'm like, Aiden, he didn't want any of this and he had to be in this forced marriage to cover up all this shit his dad did and then ended up committing suicide. I feel like he was the saddest, saddest character.
- [28:25]
A
Terrible. And it was so sad because then when it came out that he wasn't even maybe his biological son. Right, right. So he wasn't his biological son. And so he didn't, he didn't shower him with any kind of fatherly affection, just gave him access to money. Like, that doesn't work. Do you know, do you know the, the horrifying, you know, the concept that we would always choose love over money or that kind of thing?
- [28:53]
B
Yeah.
- [28:55]
A
So Harlow's monkeys. Have you heard about that?
- [28:58]
B
No, tell me.
- [29:02]
A
Okay, so his classic study. This is from the American Psychological association. Because I'm a Psychologist. And so this is just a study I know about. So Harlow did study using rhesus monkeys. And this was in. I was trying to look in the 50s and 60s, this research was done and he put a monkey into a cage with. Where they could choose a soft plush monkey, but they wouldn't get any food, or they could choose food and monkeys would choose the soft, plush mother monkey over food and starve to death. Like they could go anytime and choose to not have love. The monkey would choose love and comfort over basic needs. It's a really sad study. It's really hard to think about, but that's how much we are fed by that need for social love and social connection. And it's, you know, it's the number one predictor of longevity. Social connection. Do you know that?
- [30:10]
B
Because you've told me before.
- [30:11]
A
Yeah, it just is. It's. And people are like, well, I'm an introvert. An introvert just means you get your energy from time spent alone. It doesn't mean that you don't need social connection and social interaction. It just means that you regenerate more energy when you're having that alone time where extroverts get more energy from that time with other people. But social connection, so powerful and so necessary. So it broke my heart with Aiden because he never got the love and he had the money. And look at what happened. He was so miserable.
- [30:43]
B
Yeah, he was absolutely miserable. And then his poor friend Gwendolyn also had to die.
- [30:48]
A
Yep.
- [30:49]
B
It's felt her character. I don't know if it felt necessary, but it kind of felt like they needed to have her there and kill her. To just show if you're a problem for us, we just get rid of you.
- [30:59]
A
Yeah, clearly. And then they're talking about killing Abigail.
- [31:02]
B
Yes, yes. Two other things I want to tell you. One story he told us. So he asked us if we wanted to hear one story from the book that was true and maybe I shouldn't tell you. Maybe I should make you listen to the interview.
- [31:20]
A
Yeah, don't tell us the stories because I'm gonna go listen. Let's. Okay. So some people sent us some. Their most horrifying wedding stories, right?
- [31:28]
B
Yes. So m. I'm gonna read you just a few of them because I want to get your reaction. And you have not seen these, so.
- [31:36]
A
No, none of them.
- [31:37]
B
This one made me laugh. Somebody said, did my father in law play the trumpet before we walked out? He sure did. Was he good? Nope. Can you imagine? She's like, we. We had to let him Play like, he was so excited. And she said, he was just terrible. He's absolutely terrible. But she walked down the aisle to him playing the trumpet.
- [32:00]
A
I feel like that is like an awesome core memory that you can laugh about your whole life.
- [32:05]
B
I know, I'm like, that one. That one's not bad. This poor woman got a bunch of people at her wedding. So you know how when you're at a wedding, especially with your bridesmaids, you'll pass a cocktail around or glasses of wine like nobody cares. You're having fun. So she was the bride and she's like, I thought that I was just nervous. Turned out I had mono and gave it to a bunch of people at the wedding.
- [32:29]
A
Oh, that sucks.
- [32:31]
B
I know. Can you imagine? Let me see. Oh, this. There are two more. Two more. And then you read one to me. This one was inside of like a. Inside of a building. The wedding planner sent the assistant to try to help, but the thermostat was broken and behind a locked door. And it was 110 that day and the wedding was inside. Yikes. You imagine terrible. Oh my gosh. And then this one's just funny. This woman said wedding was great, but I had an adjoining room with my in laws for the entire wedding weekend. That would not be fun.
- [33:14]
A
No. You're like, no.
- [33:16]
B
And then there were a bunch more. Like, we got so many people with, you know, they drink too much, people ending up in the wrong car. Somebody said her wedding video was ruined because her mother in law cried so hard. You can't hear anything else anyway. But you have a longer one to read to me that.
- [33:35]
A
Okay.
- [33:36]
B
And I think she said maybe there's like a link to find news stories on it or something.
- [33:41]
A
Yes, I think we should find a news story and share it. But I have not read this yet. So I'm going to read this for the first time with you all. Okay.
- [33:49]
B
So excited.
- [33:50]
A
When I got married the first time due to religious differences, we were married by a magistrate at the venue where the reception was being held. It was predicted to rain and boy, did it rain. We had appetizers in the wedding area and were to then move up to the ballroom. While mingling, the staff came out and said water was coming in and to proceed upstairs and they would bring the appetizers up. As we went to the staircase to go upstairs, the water was coming through the door above my husband's head. He was 6 foot 7. Thankfully the door opened out or the water would have pushed it open. We got upstairs and the people from another Area of the venue were moved up into the ballroom as well. We went to find windows to look out. Cars were floating past. A huge ice machine from a business around the corner was flying by in the water. And guests at the wedding were watching all of our cars bang around through the lot and hitting each other due to the flooding. Car horns were honking, lights were flashing and wipers were going. We sat and waited to be rescued. We exited from the second floor and partway down the stairwell into canoes and rowboats. There were news crews everywhere that wanted to interview us. The displaced people that lived in the community cheered and applauded us all while having lost their home and every everything within. It was at that time we realized we had no way home. Everyone we knew was there and the cars were totaled. We accepted rides from strangers that offered and in the mix, I ended up in one car, my new husband in another. He was at his parents house and I was at mine with no cars to get to each other. Definitely an event to remember. And there's info about this online. Oh my gosh. Well, talk about your wedding beans. Truly an event to remember.
- [35:32]
B
Can you. I could not believe. I'm like you had to get out and go in canoes and kayaks in your.
- [35:38]
A
Listen, a lot of people pay a lot to get to canoe at their wedding.
- [35:45]
B
But it almost seems like a complete. Oh, here. Yep. Here are a bunch of different. We'll link a bunch of these articles. Storm triggers flood mudsides in Western Pennsylvania. Four people. Oh, four people died.
- [35:58]
A
Whoa. Well, in the. In the floods. Not at her wedding.
- [36:01]
B
Right. Like a crazy storm out of nowhere. Oh my.
- [36:06]
A
I'm going to tell you now a story about something. I was like, where do wedding traditions come from? Because thinking about all the wedding traditions that we do and they're. They're so arbitrary for us. Like why do we have a cake, like big tiered cake? I guess you could just say because people like dessert. But why not donuts or ice cream bars? So I, I guess there was a tradition that you would break cakes over the bride's head for good luck and then they started stacking up as many cakes as they could to break them over their head. So that, that's one old tradition that was just very bizarre. But here's the ones I found that are creepy. Well, I just am attracted to the creepy ones. Did you know that it used to be pretty traditional for brides and grooms to consummate their marriage immediately after the ceremony, often with witnesses present, so they would get married and then very quickly consummate their marriage around in front of everybody. And then the groom would take off the bride's undergarments and throw them into the crowd, which is where the throwing of the garter came from.
- [37:19]
B
That is horrifying. That is. I. I think I'd heard something before about like immediately after they go into a room and then they come back and like it. It's obviously been done. But witnesses is a whole nother. That's just sicken, you know, I just.
- [37:37]
A
Think it's a good reminder that humans are indeed animals.
- [37:41]
B
There you go.
- [37:42]
A
And we have made ourselves feel like not animals, but we're still animals.
- [37:50]
B
I can't. I can't imagine any of that. Did you look up why we throw the bouquet backwards and have someone catch it?
- [37:57]
A
Yes. So one thing I saw, and I don't know if it's true, I mean, I didn't go deep into that one, but I did see that brides used to be very lucky and so were considered very lucky. And like on their wedding day, that was the luckiest thing. And so people would just like, grab at the bride and even like tear her dress and stuff. They would be so aggressive trying to get some of the luck off of the bride that she would throw her bouquet as a distraction.
- [38:24]
B
Oh, that's interesting.
- [38:27]
A
I don't know if that's the true origin. I mean, listen, people can write stuff on the Internet and I didn't do a whole lot of research on this one. Go ahead and yell in the comments, Emily. Do better research and don't spew garbage on the Internet. Well, I'm just one of those people, like writing a blog on here right now telling you you did, you do.
- [38:46]
B
For years something borrowed, something blue, something new, something. Whatever those four things are probably. I think I did. I'm trying to think of what traditions. What's the most like traditional wedding you've been to in terms of like. I went to a Greek wedding and it was the most fun wedding I've ever been to. But also, I swear on everything I know to be true, it was like seven hours.
- [39:08]
A
Oh, wow. Well, we weren't you there? We went to a Catholic wedding. That was like an hour ceremony. Yeah, that was pretty long.
- [39:18]
B
That was.
- [39:20]
A
Oh, I didn't see anything about the money dance. I will tell you, the veil came from the concept usually of there were two. There are two pieces of this one is that brides were supposed to be pure and virginal and so wrapped completely and no one could even see them on the Wedding day. So they were completely saved for the groom was one concept of, like, a veil, but the other. And this one was repeated quite a few places. So maybe is true, it came from arranged marriages that they would put a veil over the bride so that the groom couldn't see her in case he thought she was not attractive and didn't want to marry her until it was, like, too late. They're already standing at the altar and said, I do.
- [40:00]
B
That's awful. Oh, now I want to go to a wedding. I love a good wedding.
- [40:05]
A
You know, I love a wedding, too, but I'm so far past that phase of life that the wedding would be. If I went to a wedding right now, it'd be for someone much younger, probably. I mean, I wish that people, when they get married a second time, would have big weddings. So we could do another round of this.
- [40:22]
B
I know Ben and I have always talked about. Not always, but we're like, doing a vow renewal would be fun, because you could have another party that's like. But then he's like, I think people only do vowel renewals because then they think somebody's cheated and you have to, like, recommit. Yeah.
- [40:39]
A
Or you're like, we weren't in it for a while, but I'm gonna get back in it also. I mean, you could do it for just an excuse for a party, but then you could just call it an anniversary.
- [40:49]
B
Right. Just a party. Yeah. Because you look back, like, I look back at my wedding, and I invited so many people who I worked with at the time, who I've never talked to again for the rest of my life.
- [41:00]
A
Yeah. I feel like.
- [41:02]
B
Okay.
- [41:02]
A
I feel like back in the day when we were all getting married, and of that age, weddings cost, like, about $20,000 was kind of a standard number that people would say, which is an insane amount of money to spend on a party. So that's one reason probably, people don't do it again. And also now, what do you think that would cost for that same caliber of wedding? 40,000, 50 minimum.
- [41:30]
B
Minimum.
- [41:31]
A
And people are making less money than ever. So who could afford to do that now?
- [41:35]
B
Right. And who wants to? I don't know. I. I don't get me wrong, I loved my wedding, but now I'm like, if I had disposable income, I wouldn't spend it on a wedding.
- [41:46]
A
Yeah. Steve and I planned our wedding, remember? And then we were just started. We were arguing about wedding planning, and we had never argued really before. We just had had a super smooth relationship up to that point, and we were like, the stress of planning something that we're not passionate about is killing us as a couple, so let's just not do that. And we canceled our wedding. And then we went to Hawaii for 10 days and had, like, 20 people. And it was the best decision because it was so intimate and fun, and we got a huge vacation out of it and great memories. And it cost less money.
- [42:23]
B
Yeah.
- [42:24]
A
Okay, that's probably good enough. Go read. Go read the Last one at the Wedding by Jason Rakulik. Well, hopefully you read it before you listen to this, actually, what am I saying?
- [42:35]
B
And go listen to our episode. Actually. It's on Apple, it's on Spotify, it's on our Patreon. Go listen to our interview with him. He tells you about what one thing he wrote in the last one at the wedding that's actually from his real life. And we also have an episode about hidden pictures.
- [42:54]
A
Okay, bye.
- [42:55]
B
Okay, bye. Thanks for listening.
- [42:59]
A
For more content, find us on Patreon at the Creepy Book Club.
- [43:03]
B
Happy reading.