Cara Delevingne: Sobriety, Sexuality & Self-Love

Summary

Call Her Daddy – Cara Delevingne: Sobriety, Sexuality & Self-Love

Host: Alex Cooper
Guest: Cara Delevingne
Date: June 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this rich, intimate episode, Alex Cooper sits down with supermodel, actress, and now musician Cara Delevingne for an incredibly candid conversation spanning her tumultuous upbringing, struggles with addiction, discovering her sexuality, and her remarkable path to self-love and creativity. Cara shares personal stories around her childhood, the darkness behind her public glamor, her journey to sobriety, her struggles with validation and anger, and the immense healing power she finds in making music. The discussion is both vulnerable and inspiring, offering listeners a deeply relatable portrait of recovery, resilience, and the ongoing work of self-acceptance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Cara’s Current Moment: Albums, Movies, and Mania

[02:30]

• Cara discusses the whirlwind of releasing her debut album and starring in the Cannes-winning film "Club Kid."
  Quote: “I’m getting quite a lot done, but also I’m ready to have a little nap after tonight’s show. But no, I’m really… It doesn’t feel real. This is like all my dreams come true with this album.” [02:58]

The Vagina Tunnel & Playful Self-Expression

[04:45]

• Cara and Alex bond over Cara’s infamous "vagina tunnel" installation at home—a playful artifact of her creative, uninhibited approach to life and humor. Quote: “I’ve had so many people come through my vagina tunnel. It’s so great. Can’t wait for you to see it.” [05:11]
• Cara muses on embracing fun and nostalgia, but recognizing she’s in a new phase of life: “No house will ever be like that house. You can’t really replicate it… but I do want a vagina tunnel again.” [05:59]

Growing Up in British High Society

[07:18]

• Cara describes her upbringing in London, navigating an elitist society that felt empty and performative. Quote: “There is nothing quite like British high society… People growing up having kind of a lot of money and not really doing anything… I preferred going to raves and breaking into festivals and doing drugs in a park. Like, that was my vibe.” [09:30]
• She reflects on the expectations placed on women, especially by her father, and her early pushback against those “rules.”
  Quote: “My dad had three girls, and his ideal was for us to, you know, marry someone who would look after us. And I was like, that’s never… I never want to be looked after by anyone.” [12:08]

Family Trauma, Caretaking, and Suppressed Emotions

[13:46]

• Cara speaks openly about her mother's severe illness and addiction, and the emotional silence in her family. Quote: “I don’t feel like I had a voice as a kid… There was a lot going on with my mom, who especially was very sick when I was growing up… I just had to look after her and that overtook everything.” [13:46]
• She describes how the lack of communication led her to internalize pain, leading to a breakdown at 15.
  Quote: “I just held everything in to the point where, you know, I had a mental breakdown at 15. I was way too young and had to drop out of school… I still don’t think I found that proper way of talking about anything until, I don’t know, this past four or five years.” [18:10]

Danger-Seeking and the Physicalization of Pain

[20:59]

• Cara shares how her emotional repression during childhood manifested in physical harm and risk-taking. Quote: “Because I also think at some point around the time of the not eating, I also just started, like, throwing myself off stuff and, like, I broke, like, I don’t know how many bones in a year… I could finally have a cast and say like, ow, I’m hurting. You know, it was like the first time I could, like, feel like I deserved to say ow.” [21:07–21:53]

Teenage Drug Use, Mental Health, and Early Modeling

[24:15]

• Cara describes her teenage years marked by heavy experimentation with drugs and searching for connection and relief from her turbulent reality. Quote: “What drugs really gave me at that point…was connection. It wasn’t real…but I loved that part…But then, especially with things like hallucinogens and when your brain is not formed yet, I had a really bad trip…like, I lost my mind.” [25:18–25:56]
• She recounts the pressures, confusion, and anger of that period, and how dropping out of school for modeling was less a plan and more an escape:
  Quote: “It was more that I have to drop out because I will either do something stupid at school. I’m so depressed…No, the real life, the real world is way harder. But I needed that. I kind of needed that reality check.” [29:38]

Rocketing to Fame, Alienation, and the Model Persona

[33:09]

• Cara remembers the rapid transformation from struggling model to global supermodel and the disconnect from her reality. Quote: “I remember before…and being told I was too short or not pretty enough…Then everyone wants you and the whole thing happens. But it also gave me a pretty fickle view and a bit of a chip on my shoulder…you look where I am now, bitch.” [33:09–35:46]
• Cara reflects on performing confidence, using humor and quirkiness as armor, and feeling like an outsider in the ultra-serious fashion world. Quote: “Let’s get crazy. Let’s put on my favorite…let’s put on Biggie Smalls and fucking go. Like, I loved shaking everything up because I was like, people take my picture. I’m gonna do weird faces because I don’t take this seriously, and I don’t feel pretty.” [36:04]

Industry Exploitation and Pushback

[38:10]

• Cara discusses the broader toxic culture in modeling—body shaming, racism, and power abuse. Quote: “That was why I started really feeling quite empty because I didn’t like what I was representing…When little girls would come up to me and their moms…‘My daughter wants to be a model because of you.’ And I was like, don’t…Don’t.” [38:10] Quote: “Even if you were a really big model…‘Why don’t you get on your all fours and bark like a dog?’ Because it made people who had been in the industry…feel big and feel important.” [41:18]

The Power of Personality & Impact on Future Generations

[41:30]

• Cara takes pride in helping to open doors for other personalities in modeling, noting that new generations are more celebrated for their individualism. Quote: “It makes me so happy when I see models and I’m never going to be like, it was me, it’s not. But I think with social media and people having more of a voice…at least people are being celebrated for being individual in their personalities…” [41:30]

Sexuality, Relationships, and Learning to Receive Love

[57:29]

• Cara explains how her early needs for validation led to inauthentic relationships, and her sexuality was concealed even from herself. Quote: “I didn’t want to be gay. I really wanted to fit in with people…And especially, I never knew how to ask for what I wanted. And it was very much a performative thing…I was so pretending to be something I wasn’t.” [57:29–59:04]
• She describes her first real relationship with a woman as the first time she allowed herself to accept her sexuality and feel loved. Quote: “I think when I was in my first real relationship with a woman…we were kind of in secrecy and stuff like that. And I was like, oh, this is everything.” [62:57]

Coming Out and Industry Pushback

[63:44]

• Cara shares she never actually “came out” to her family, but her independence and success gave her the freedom to live authentically. Quote: “I think it would be unfortunately different…I would have found it a lot harder if I hadn’t been famous or successful, because…I wasn’t like, they couldn’t stop me, and I felt like they would have been able to…” [63:44]
• She relays direct homophobia from the film industry. Quote: “Harvey Weinstein called me and was like, ‘you can’t be gay.’ …You’ll never be an actress. You’ll never be hired.” [65:25; 68:59]

Sobriety: Relapse, Reluctance, and Recovery

[71:05]

• Cara opens up about her drug use escalating to dangerous levels, seeking connection then isolation, and her resistance to rigid narratives around sobriety. Quote: “When I bought the drugs to sell, I just did them all by myself…Wasn’t a great drug dealer, but…when I started doing them alone and how much I liked that…that I knew it was a problem.” [71:05]
• She admits to secrecy, rationalizing, and how public scrutiny (i.e., the Burning Man paparazzi photos after a seizure) finally forced her to confront reality. Quote: “Those photos were taken right after I’d had a seizure at Burning Man. And I was meant to go to work. I mean, it was just an absolute storm.” [77:05] Quote: “That was that part of myself that I hated and I was hiding from everyone. So for everyone to see it, it was like, the jig’s up…Once you get sober, that girl isn’t gone. She’s here. She’s pretty mean to me sometimes, but my God, yeah, I mean, you have to make friends with that part of yourself.” [84:28–85:19]

Non-Linear Sobriety

[85:41]

• Cara discusses how the 12-step program wasn’t the ultimate solution for her, and emphasizes giving herself grace and redefining what sobriety looks like for her. Quote: “There’s a narrative, right, about addiction…that is, you know, abstinence is the most important thing and it’s very rigid. I don’t do well with that. …I don’t feel like they’re mistakes, but I would prefer to toe a line of I’m not trying to walk an edge. I’m never trying to go back to what I was doing. My priority is clarity, sobriety to the utmost and loving myself.” [85:41–87:59]

Re-Entering Life Sober: Fragility and Anger

[90:46]

• Cara describes early sobriety as “being a newborn child,” and how artistic expression became crucial to her process. Quote: “I was just so fragile…I feel like a newborn child, but who can technically talk and walk…Your brain is like, oh, yeah, a lot…You’re just a raw nerve.” [90:46]
• Anger emerges as a theme; she identifies repressed rage as a wellspring for creativity and self-understanding. Quote: “I have a pit of anger in me because I never expressed it. And I think, yeah, when you grow up loving someone who is sick and you can’t help them…you just hate yourself because they’re sick. …But with that comes so much creativity and fire. And for this album…every emotion that I was scared of, I now see as, like, an amazing gift.” [93:39–95:34]

The Music: A Culmination of Healing

[100:57]

• Cara details how making her album (“the most important thing that’s ever happened in my life”) is rooted in her sobriety and self-love. Quote: “I cried to [my girlfriend] in the shower and being like, I don’t know what to do, but I have to do music. …This is always something I believed I was going to do… but I just knew I couldn’t do it until I had gotten to this place of belief and self love.” [99:13]
• She shares the album’s creative process, the terror of sharing her first love song, and the profound validation of finding her true voice as an artist. Quote: “Everyone says something so similar, which is, it’s just so you. But I didn’t expect what that would be. …I don’t know what should Cara Delevingne sound like? Because we know your personality, but I had no concept of how that would translate into music…You, like, take us on a ride that it was so unpredictable and yet so now, in hindsight, predictable to who you are.” [104:09–104:57]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On not fitting in high society:
  “I preferred going to raves and breaking into festivals and doing drugs in a park. Like, that was my vibe.” [09:30]

• On childhood caretaking:
  “I just had to look after [my mom] and that overtook everything to the point where like, I just…still am really trying to learn how to look after myself at 30 fucking 3.” [13:46]

• On substance use:
  “I loved what drugs made me feel…I loved not having to feel the pressure…It went away.” [24:50]

• On models and industry abuse:
  “People would do things…like, ‘Why don’t you stand on her head in a high heel? Or bark like a dog?’ Because it made people who had been in the industry…feel big and feel important.” [41:18]

• On Harvey Weinstein calling:
  “He called me up and said…‘You can’t be with women. You’ll never be an actress. You’ll never be hired. …If you’re going to do that, just do it behind closed doors.’” [68:59]

• On her turning point in addiction:
  “I knew it was bad when I started doing them alone and how much I liked that…and I could disappear…and that I knew it was a problem. And that was young.” [71:05]

• On public humiliation and recovery:
  “That still, that person is still a part of me, though. Once you get sober, that girl isn’t gone. She’s here…she makes me want to be better…you have to make friends with that part of yourself.” [84:28–85:19]

• On the creative power of anger:
  “There is something…I can’t describe it. And it feels like whatever stuff I had to deal with after…I was coming off of drugs, I would black out with a physical trauma thing. …But with that comes so much creativity and fire.” [95:34]

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Key Timestamps for Major Themes

• Cara’s current projects, Cannes, & album: [02:30–04:35]
• Childhood, family, and British high society: [07:12–13:46]
• Family trauma, mother’s illness, and caretaking: [13:46–18:10]
• Danger-seeking & physicalizing emotional pain: [20:59–22:47]
• Drug use, mental health & early modeling crisis: [24:15–29:38]
• Rocketing to fame & industry exploitation: [33:09–42:43]
• Sexuality & relationships: [57:29–66:07]
• Sobriety and the reality of recovery: [71:05–87:59]
• Early sobriety, anger, and emotional reconnection: [90:46–96:42]
• Making her album, self-love, and validation: [99:13–108:29]

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Final Reflections & Message

Cara wraps with a message to anyone struggling or feeling stagnant:

“What it can do, just because this society we live in, we are so filled with so much information and pain and so aware of what’s going on in the world that escaping and numbing is so easy…Whether people have a problem or not, escaping is always a problem. So to be able to get sober with your friends, even if it is for a period of time or whatever, is never a bad thing. But it also doesn’t have to be perfect. …Any endeavour that makes you uncomfortable will always allow you to grow. And if you are ever stagnant, just keep moving.” [110:30]

Alex thanks Cara for her honesty, resilience, and for sharing her journey. This episode offers hard-won wisdom for anyone facing addiction, confusion about their identity, or recovering from family pain; it is a testament to the messy, nonlinear, but ultimately powerful quest for authentic self-love and creative fulfillment.

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Transcript

[A]

Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Sephora. From less is more days to full glam routines. Everything you need for all things beauty is at Sephora. Yep, Sephora is where you will find the hottest, newest products you won't find anywhere else. The ones popping up in every get ready with me. Think summery fragrances like kayali Eden plush pear 23 eau de parfum. Next level Makeup. The skincare that keeps you glowing like it's your full time job. Shop the newest, hottest beauty only at Sephora. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Clorox Disinfecting Wipes. We all know how good it feels to refresh our space and sometimes a little spring cleaning. Pick me up with Clorox Disinfecting Wipes is the best way to get back on track. Let me just say she's quick, she's easy, she's Clorox Disinfecting Wipes. Plus the lemon scent. Oh my God. You know what it reminds me of my mom. My mom used these in our home growing up.

[B]

My.

[A]

No doubt about it. Our house smelled so incredibly clean. And now I just have them in my house because it's tradition, right? My mom used it and naturally I use whatever my mother used. It is the best. Guys, a quick wipe down is one of the easiest ways to channel a little spring cleaning energy. The wipes are perfect also for multitasking. So you can just get back to your day to day with ease and with a better vibe. Thanks to Clorox, we can have spring cleaning and they can get us through it. Right? We don't need to stress. Thank you, Clorox. Okay, so shop Clorox Disinfecting Wipe wipes [e-mail] Clorox wipes. What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy card Elevine. Welcome to Colorado. Hi. I couldn't be more excited to have you here.

[B]

Seriously excited. I'm nervous. I'm nervous.

[A]

Don't be nervous. I was just thinking about.

[B]

I've been nervous all day though. Don't worry. I have my first show tonight, so I'm just.

[A]

There's a lot going on today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, I've got you. It's gonna be fine. And I also can't believe we've never met.

[B]

I know. I feel like I've just. I feel like I've just been a fan of yours for so long and watched the show and watched your documentary. I just think you're incredible and I love how comfortable you make people feel and how, like the different interview styles you get from people. Yeah, you just have a really incredible way, I think, with people, making them feel comfortable, which is something I also like to do.

[A]

Well, you are so sweet. Thank you for saying that.

[B]

Not that I need to make you feel comfortable.

[A]

No, no, no. I feel. I feel the same way about you. I thinking about coming here, I was like, there's so many different things we have to talk about. Obviously, you came into this industry as literally one of the world's most famous models. Then you just so casually also pivoted and you're in some incredible movies. And now you have an album coming out this summer. Congratulations.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

How are you feeling?

[B]

It's a lot. I. Yeah, I'm not sleeping a lot right now. I feel so crazy. But in like a very. Like, this is only going to happen once in my life that I'm going to feel like this. So I'm also quite enjoying the mania. I'm getting quite a lot done. But also I'm ready to have a little nap after the. After tonight's show. But no, I'm really. It doesn't feel real. This is like all my dreams come true with this album.

[A]

Well, I'm like, you're going to do your first show tonight. You also just got back from the Cannes Film Festival where your movie club kid got a seven minute standing ovation. No big deal.

[B]

I know I've never been in the room when that happens. And it was. It's definitely one of those things where like, it's really. It's worth. It feels like a long time.

[A]

What did that moment feel like to you, though?

[B]

Oh, I was just so happy for Jordan and like little Reggie, who is the kid in the movie. And yeah, Jordan is an incredible person and I think people are really going to get to see just how enigmatic he is and how multifaceted and talented he is to create a movie like that where it really shows queer culture in such a realistic way for people who don't experience that or have never experienced that. Those kind of clubs and drugs and all of it. But then also, you know, it's a real tearjacker.

[A]

I know. I was gonna just say, like, congratulations. My husband who's in that industry was like, o, well, she's been the talk of Cannes, so you're getting her at a great time. I was like, oh, and she's got an album, Matt. So he was like, oh, my God, this is perfect timing. So congratulations on that entire trip, seriously.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I'm sure you noticed, but the call her daddy studio outside in the offices is under construction.

[B]

Oh, I'm obsessed.

[A]

And we are building, like, a little tunnel for people to walk through when they come to the studio. And I know that in your old

[B]

house going to say, is it you?

[A]

Huh? You converted a hallway into a vagina tunnel.

[B]

Glorified hallway. It wasn't a hallway. It was for sure. It was the tunnel. Small, petite, cute.

[A]

Gorgeous.

[B]

Gorgeous. Fluffy. Soft, warm. Vibrates. All of it.

[A]

Did it have a name or was it just vagina tunnel?

[B]

It was my vagina tunnel. And really, the best part of it is that people would ask about it, and I'd be like, yes. I've had so many people come through my vagina tunnel. It's so great. Can't wait for you to see it. It just was such a good gag. Even the fact it existed was weirder. But, yeah, I think it was just me during COVID I think I'd done some mushrooms, and I was like, I need to make a vagina tunnel that you crawl through, and you can sit in and you can meditate, and it can feel warm, and there's, like, visuals and lights and. Yeah, it vibrates and is warm. Am I forgetting anything? No. And there was, like, a little hammock in there too. And then you crawl out of a washing machine and you feel cleansed. It's like baptism.

[A]

It's genius, and it's amazing. And I'm sad I never got to experience it.

[B]

I'm so sad because you.

[A]

It would have been really up my alley.

[B]

And no house will ever be like that house. You can't really replicate it. And also, I'm at a different time in my life where I don't think that's also something I want, But I do want a vagina tunnel again. I'll always have one, so I might as well invite people in, you know?

[A]

Okay. So no matter what you're gonna get, when you get a new house, you'll find an area for a vagina.

[B]

Yeah. And even if it's more like a vagina cave, maybe it doesn't go anywhere. Maybe it's more just like a cozy cotch space. Yeah. I don't know. A reading corner.

[A]

Just.

[B]

It's a different kind of vagina tunnel. I love the vagina tunnels. Matured.

[A]

I love it so much. I literally. I was like, I know it has been a while since you've had it, but I was like, I just.

[B]

Oh, it's one of my favorite things that I had. Yeah.

[A]

And I Had to bring it up.

[B]

No, you had to.

[A]

I'm so excited to get to know you today. Truly. I feel like I want to learn so much more about all of your life experiences, especially that inspired this.

[B]

How long you got, girl?

[A]

Girl, I wore my cozy pants today. I relaxed. I'm ready to get into it because this album is very personal and there's a lot that you talk about that I think does require us to kind of go back to the childhood a little bit.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So you down to go back with me, Cara?

[B]

Yeah, I'm still there.

[A]

Okay, let's go. Oh, perfect. Okay, let's go.

[B]

Still regressing.

[A]

So you grew up in London. Yes. What is the most like British thing about you?

[B]

I mean, I've made an ingredient tattooed on the bottom of my foot. I don't think that's the most British thing about my personality, but it is. I'm a. I'm a pretty proud Brit. I love the sense of humor. I'm really self deprecating though. Like I'm really on borderline. Like, I hate myself. Not anymore. I've done a lot of work on it. But I think that's. That's part of something about being British. Yeah, the dry humor, which I think a lot of the time in the beginning of my career, people really didn't understand that I was being sarcastic quite a lot. Or maybe I was also just in a bad mood and trying to play it off as sarcasm.

[A]

Either way, isn't that weird? In the beginning of your career you hope you're like, wait, no, that's not what I meant. And now it's kind of like great to be misunderstood.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I don't care.

[B]

I just. I think I was so desperate for love and for people to like me. So much so that I just. I don't really know what I was doing. At some so many points you.

[A]

I know that your parents kind of ran in circles of like that were considered high society. What was that like for you growing up?

[B]

It's so interesting because I don't think it's so. I mean, people can see things like stuff on tv, right. Of like, obviously the crown is not how I grew up, but like in that certain way of like, there is nothing quite like British high society. It's to me something I really didn't enjoy. I was very confused by the whole thing of people growing up having kind of a lot of money and not really doing anything and kind of feeling very entitled and having a lot and expecting a lot for really nothing. Whereas I Grew up. And I just really wanted. I mean, when I was a kid, I really wanted to change the world. I felt like I wanted to be a superhero. I think that came from, like a hero complex of, like, trying to fix people and make people better. But for me, I don't know, I really wanted to earn people's respect. And I think there's that thing of society where if you're born into it, you don't really have to do much. And people can be pretty horrible and pretty rude and spoilt. Not everyone. I mean, it doesn't always work like that. But I think the circles that my parents ran in, I don't know, I was like, I don't like these people's kids. Like, they're not nice to other kids or they're not nice to people who work here or for them. And it's just like, it felt very. I don't know, I preferred going to raves and breaking into festivals and doing drugs in a park. Like, that was my vibe. I really wanted to, like, do the opposite, I think.

[A]

Is there anything, though, that you felt like there were. I know you're saying, like, oh, you kind of didn't have to do anything. You kind of just like, had money and that was the expectation of, like, just kind of go. And then you become the next generation that goes into the wealth. But, like, were there expectations in terms of the way you were supposed to act, in the way you were supposed to present when you.

[B]

I think so. I. If anyone knows me, they know that I'm not. I'm not a super put together person. Like, I think my. I think especially for my parents and for my family, like, man is super important. And I believe that it's very important to be kind to people. But when it comes to, like, in terms of, like, eating in a pretty way or whatever, like, I'm not like, to be a model, for instance, and to like, walk well. Oh my God, it took me so long to, like, pretend to be graceful because I'm just not. I'm a feral human. Like, I'm way more like of a Neanderthal than I am a human being. That's not the right word.

[A]

Like, proper and grace for me were just not something.

[B]

No. And also I. I also think because my parents ran in these circles, I assumed when I was younger, you know, I went to. I was very lucky. I went to incredible schools. You know, I would go on amazing holidays. But for me, there was something that was missing underneath it all, which was, I think, a lot of. About High society is that people try and really pretend to be perfect and act like in a certain way, and everything has to be wrapped in a very neat box. And when I knew there was so much stuff going on underneath it, it really confused me. And I was like, I don't understand. But there was a certain element where I was like, oh, you know, all my friends and their kids, they get trust funds. Like, when. When does that happen? My dad was like, are you kidding? You don't have a trust fund? And I was like, oh, so you run in these circles, but it's not to the same degree, if that makes sense. It's a perception of, you know, go to the parties and do all the things and look nice. But it's not the same level of, like.

[A]

It's not the same reality.

[B]

No. But also, I think for my. You know, I love my parents, there's been a lot of. Like, there was a lot of resentment I had towards my upbringing and growing up, but I also think because I pushed myself too hard and it took me a long time to get over it. But I think their perception of how it was, especially for men and women, you know, my dad had three girls, and his. His ideal was for us to, you know, marry someone who would look after us. And I was like, that's never. I never want to be looked after by anyone.

[A]

It's so interesting, obviously, generationally, when they have, like, an idea for you and you're, like, trying to break away from it, but it also feels like then you are abandoning what your parents want, which means feeling like you're letting them down.

[B]

And I also don't think he thought it was possible for a woman to. I don't know in the same sense that I'm sure he did. But I also just knew I was different, too. Like, I knew. I knew I was a little queer kid running around, Like, I didn't feel like I belonged in my body, in my fa. In any of it. So I was like, yeah, anything you guys tell me, I'm not gonna listen to. Which also is part of how I am in just terms of, like, rules. I can't really handle them.

[A]

I also think something you said was so interesting and relatable for probably a lot of people growing up is, like, the feeling of, we. Why are we all not talking about this? Why are we all pretending everything's fine? And I remember you said, from the outside, my family's life looked extremely privileged. But behind closed doors, there was a lot more to the story. Like, yes, we're Talking about the parties. But can you kind of paint the picture of what your life did look like in the home with your parents and your siblings?

[B]

Unfortunately, my. My memory of a lot of it. My memory is my memory. It's not fact I can remember what I can remember. And unfortunately, the way that I'm wired, my brain will tend to hold on to darker things and trauma than it does the nice parts, which I know they were there because there's videos of it and there are memories I have of it that I worked really hard to. To remember. But I do. Yeah, I think I. I don't know. I don't feel like I had a voice as a kid in terms of. I mean, who does, I guess, at that age? But I don't feel like I was going through a lot and I don't know what I was going through, but there was a lot going on with my mom, who especially was very sick when I was growing up. And I didn't know how I felt about it, but I also wasn't asked or wasn't allowed to feel. And also she was so sick, so I couldn't make it about me. I just had to look after her and that I was actually really good at it. Like, I loved doing it, but she. It overtook everything to the point where like, I just. I still am really trying to learn how to look after myself at 30 fucking 3. Sorry, excuse me. Can I swear I forget every time

[A]

people always ask about vagina tunnel. Yeah, you're right. Please swear. That's also a very, I think, interesting theme in a lot of people's life is like feeling like if there's someone in your family that's really going through it, then you kind of have to. Then your problems aren't as big as theirs. And I know you have talked about kind of like the struggles that your mom went through mental health wise and with substance use. Is there a moment as a kid that you like, acutely remember being like, oh, something is off with her? Or was it just always a constant?

[B]

It felt normal. It felt normal until, you know, being at a certain age where you're told your mom's gonna die and being in hospital being like, huh, like I don't understand what that means. And also the very, very physical, visceral memory of her being away a lot and, you know, either being in hospital or in rehab of some sort and that feeling of not knowing where she was. No one told me, so I just thought she was dead and I didn't understand, so. And that's when that kind of thing of, like, trying to control the uncontrollable would come in where, like, I just would stop eating at 7 and like, just be on a hunger strike because I didn't know where my mother was. I was not gonna eat because that, to me was the only thing I had control over.

[A]

And what would you, like, would you ask your father? And he wouldn't share?

[B]

No, I didn't. I don't know. Again, I don't remember. And I think my dad. We all have very different memories of this. My sisters are, you know, six and eight years older than me. They were teenagers. They were out the house. My dad, bless him, you know, he. My drive and my ambition and my. He works really hard. And to him, security and money is the most important thing and to look after people. But in the same sense, he wasn't around a lot as much as I think I. I was around, I guess, my mom.

[A]

Well, and I think something, Cara, that is so weird as adults that you have to. We have to start to realize, which I have a lot of conversations with people about is like, we love our parents. And we also were like, that was a weird, fucked up thing that happened in my childhood. And I think it's hard to grapple with. Like, you can still say that things did not feel right in your childhood, and both things can kind of exist. And I think it's a. Odd feeling because it seems like you've kind of made amends with your family and you guys are like, on great terms. But also a child's perception is everything. It doesn't matter if you were seeing it slightly different than maybe your father was seeing it. That was your reality. And so the fact that you were saying, I literally thought my mom was dead. I had no idea where she was. That's like, you're. You're in shock and you're going through grief and all those things at a really young age, and you're just alone. And like, it seems like you didn't really have anyone to talk to.

[B]

I just didn't have the tools to talk. And I also think I remember, you know, I remember when I started dealing with my own struggles and my dad was like, what. What do. What do you. What do you have to struggle about? You've had everything you've ever wanted, you know, presents and holidays in a good school. And I was like, that's. That's not your fault for not knowing that. But that's also my. It's. It's not. It's. It's not based on anyone's fault, but the conversation just was not there and I didn't know how to have it. So I just held everything in to the point where, you know, I had a mental breakdown at 15. I was way too young and had to drop out of school and. But it also happened at the same time starting to do drugs. But to me, that was like, it all happened at once. And then, yeah, it's still. I still don't think I found that proper way of talking about anything until, I don't know, this past four or five years.

[A]

Well, I think also because, like, you just said, like, then you just kind of go on the run and you're like, I've got to figure myself out. I've got to get through this. And you don't. No one has time to, like, think about their childhood until you finally can breathe a little bit, be like, what happened back then, huh? And it's also like, to your father's credit, and I have had people in my life like this, where clearly whatever happened in his life, he was able to kind of plug those wounds with being like, if I can be so successful, if I can get money and status, that will help me. And you're like, wait, the material things don't mean anything.

[B]

And like, to his credit, like, he kept our family together. He could have left my mother, like, to stay with someone who had struggled and had been through, you know, and not to hurt, not, not that she ever wanted to hurt people, but she hurt everyone a lot. And he stayed and he kept her together. And that to me is pretty incredible. I really, I loved, I've loved getting older in the sense of that resentment and that anger that you hold onto is just so poisoning. It's just, it's honestly the worst. Like, you can do anything to yourself, but when you hold on to stuff like that, you just make you get so sick.

[A]

It is.

[B]

You really do.

[A]

And I remember in one of your past interviews, you said, I didn't feel like I had the right to feel. I didn't want to cause any more pain. I'm like, whoa, that's a really heavy burden to carry as a child to basically force yourself not to feel. If you look back at that time in your life, what traits or habits do you think you kind of developed in response to being like, don't feel, don't feel, don't cause anyone pain, danger

[B]

seeking behavior, for sure. I. Because I also think at some point around the time of the not eating, I also just started like, throwing myself off Stuff and, like, I broke, like, I don't know how many bones in, like a year because I just started. I was in pain inside, but I didn't know how to express it, so I just wanted to feel pain. And I. It didn't. It didn't consciously happen in that way in my head, but I remember breaking my elbow straight through for the first time and going to the hospital and finding out it was broken and being like, yay. Like, I can finally have a cast and say like, ow, I'm hurting. You know, it was like the first time I could, like, like, feel like I deserve to say ow.

[A]

Right. Like, have someone validate you and be like, oh, you must be in so much.

[B]

Look, right, Broken pain out.

[A]

Oh, my God, that. Yeah, that's so. That's sad, right? As a kid.

[B]

Yeah, it is. It is sad. I definitely. I definitely now, like, I wish I had given myself, I'd been more gentle with myself and I didn't have the tools to do that, but I wish I, you know, now, when I look back at, like, photos of myself as a kid, I was like, oh, I didn't deserve. Not that I didn't deserve to be treated like that. I didn't deserve to then do what I did to myself, because things can happen. It's how you deal with them, it's how you hold on to them. No one deserves to, you know, be hurt or to be neglected in any way, shape or form. But I didn't make it easier. I made it a hell of a lot worse.

[A]

I know. But I also think that is something that humans, and it is frustrating. And I think, especially as women, there's a lot of this of, like, when the pain is not something that someone can tangibly and, like, physically see, you are dismissed and you're discarded and it's like, oh, you're being dramatic. And so really, it's. It's. They're all the repression of the quote I read of you being like, I literally tried not to feel. Eventually your body was like, we have to expel this. We have to do something.

[B]

It's like an exorcism almost, right? Yeah. It has to come out. And also my. My trait was I just wanted to fix other people, but had no concept of receiving love. So in any, like, relationship or anything, I'd be like, oh, that person's not doing well. Oh, I can look after them. And hopefully, you know, I wasn't able to save my mum, but I could save this person and that will hopefully wrong that. Right? And. But Then at some point, someone would actually try and show me love. And I would be like, oh, no, that's not what we do here. I look after you. I'm still not even equipped to do that at this point. But, like, no, that's. And I would just run for the

[A]

hills because it's all you knew. It's like, give love to my mother. Be there for her. Everybody wait for her. Yeah.

[B]

And I loved doing it. I don't know why, because it gave me a purpose and it helped me not think about myself, which I didn't like doing at that point.

[A]

So what happened at 15?

[B]

I was experimenting a lot, I think, with, like, hallucinogens at that point, you know, which. Pretty young. 14, 13. 14. And. Yeah, you know, growing up in England and London at that time, it was a lot of drugs. And ketamine was very big at that point. And I think I love what drugs made me feel. I loved not having to think about my mum. I loved not having to feel the pressure of not being good at school because I couldn't focus or concentrate. The pressure of not feeling like I was good at anything or good enough or love myself. All of that, it went away. And what drugs really gave me at that point, which is what I was desperately looking for, was connection wasn't real. I mean, it is to some extent, but it's not. It's there, it's tangible, but it's not deep enough. Right. For what you really need, maybe what you want. But I loved that part and I loved the friends I had and the music and the. You know, breaking into it was just, like, such an amazing period. But then, especially with things like hallucinogens and when your brain is not formed yet, I just remember having a really bad trip, a really bad trip where I just. I thought that. That my dad was God and my mom was the devil and I had to kill her to save the end of the world. Like. Like, I lost my mind. And at the end of that trip, though, I thought that Bill Murray, Tim Curry and Jim Carrey were the same person. And I'm still convinced that they might be okay. I don't know. Acid is a crazy thing to be determined, but I really. I also was taking it, like, every day. Like, I was doing it a lot, and my brain was just not stable enough to be able to do that. And I just kept having bad trips and I ju. I just became suicidal. Just because at that point, then when I was in school, whether it was the drugs or the fact that, like, whenever I was anywhere else away from my mom. I could feel her. I could feel her all the time. I could feel when she was in pain, she would call me, you know, we were so close. So whenever I was away from her I couldn't think about anything else.

[A]

It's like almost codependency beyond enmeshment.

[B]

They would say. So yeah, I just, I was so confused because I also didn't have a great relationship with my dad at that point. But suddenly something started to switch where I was like, maybe my mom's actually not in the right here and my dad's actually not in the wrong and why do I hate him and protect her so fiercely in life? Like what? I think my whole world exploded and I was like, I think everything I've thought for the last 15 years is wrong. And then at that point, especially at school, I wasn't great at school. I loved what I loved which was music and theater and but exams and sitting there, my brain just would go so fast. And I also think I'm left handed. I was forced to write with my right hand. Not forced, I just did to fit in. I don't know. But I couldn't keep up with my head. And yeah, I would just try and knock myself out physically because. And that, that is why I think that same feeling was why I started having a bad relationship with drugs, was because I just wanted to knock myself out. Yeah.

[A]

And escape. Did your family at this point in high school when you were using know that this was happening?

[B]

No. I mean I'm the youngest by a pretty long way. So you just get away with more. I was also boarding school so like. And I wasn't using at boarding school. It was kind of more like weekends and da da, da. But it was when I would probably go to London on the weekends, do drugs and then go back to school where all of it would just come and I'd be sitting there going, I can't. My brain is just absolutely in turmoil.

[A]

And I think also something that's interesting, what you're referring to is I feel like everyone in high school starts to. You have a little bit of independence. You're at boarding school specifically. So your brain does start to be like, what was happening in my childhood a little bit. Right. So you're starting to lightly gain this consciousness that you didn't have in those like elementary middle school days. And then you're around more people at boarding school. You're seeing other people's dynamics. And the fact that you were like, is my dad the villain or is it my mom and your whole, who

[B]

am I angry at? I'm so angry. That was honestly the hardest thing, is the anger, because I. That was also the part that I didn't know her to be angry. I was so angry at the world, and I was so angry I couldn't make my mom better. And every time I would go home, something would be different. It was out of my control and that I'd have to go back to school. And still I felt like I was split. I was never in one place. I was like, my head's here, my heart's there. I don't know where I am.

[A]

And so drugs now, and that helps. It kind of all the question marks and all the curiosity, it alleviates that from you. So you can kind of wipe it,

[B]

but it doesn't wipe it. It puts it under a rug. And then the rug. You're hoarder.

[A]

You're a hoarder.

[B]

Hoarder of trauma.

[A]

You drop out of high school and you pursue modeling full time. How did everyone in your life feel about that decision?

[B]

Not great. I didn't also. That was not something I was like, oh, I'm going to drop out and do modeling. It was more that I have to drop out because I will either do something stupid at school. I'm so depressed. I'm gonna do so badly. I'm either gonna get expelled. Like, I have to get out of here. There's no. This is not helping the situation. And I think I needed a shock into, like. Cause I was like, oh, school. This is such a nightmare. My life's so hard. This is so difficult. No, the real life, the real world is way harder. But I needed that. I kind of needed that reality check. And my parents were like, you know, you had to take a year out of school. You know, you managed to get your. Together, you put on antidepressants and go back and. But now you want to drop out. Like, you have to have a plan. You can't just. You know, my parents are also like, you know, you need to go to university. It's like that stuff. And I was like, well, I'll have to figure out how to find a job. I was scouted at a rave also. My sister had been a model. Is a model. And yeah, I mean, I was like, I did it because I was like, sure, you want me to be a model? Like, good luck. I'll do my best. Like, as long as it means I can leave school and get out of here. But I definitely didn't. I wasn't like this is gonna work.

[A]

And then, and then, and then you become one of the most recognizable faces in the world.

[B]

Just the eyebrows.

[A]

You're so right, just right above those eyes, girl.

[B]

Just be ready.

[A]

Looks like you literally took over the world. And so the fact that you're like, oh, I gotta get out of this school, like, maybe I'll give this a try. And then it's. Cara Delevingne is everywhere. Do you remember what that early, early success felt like? Call Her Daddy is brought to you by SoFi, the all in one finance app where you can bank, borrow and invest all in one place. Let's talk bank accounts for a second. The average bank Savings rate is 0.39 in interest. You're earning pennies on your savings. But it doesn't have to be that way, Daddy. With Sofi's high yield checking and savings, the money barely making moves sitting in your savings account can earn over eight times the national average savings rate. With eligible direct deposit, no account or overdraft fees, you can get your PayCheck up to two days early, plus get an epic welcome bonus when you sign up with eligible direct deposit. Sign up for Sofi checking and [e-mail] call her daddy Today Sofi checking and savings is offered through SoFi Bank NA member FDIC terms apply. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Sephora. From less is more days to full glam routines. Everything you need for all things beauty is at Sephora. Yep, Sephora is where you will find the hottest, newest products you won't find anywhere else. The ones popping up in every get ready with me. Think summery fragrances like kayali Eden Plush Pear 23 Eau de Parfum next level makeup. The skin care that keeps you glowing like your full time job. Shop the newest, hottest beauty only at Sephora. Do you remember what that early early success felt like and recognition?

[B]

No, I don't remember. It's weird. I don't. I do. I remember before and I remember, you know, lugging my book around with the model friends that I made and being a stupidity on the tube and going to all the castings and being told I was too short or not pretty enough. And I was like, oh fuck, this sucks. This is really way hard. Like, this is not easy. Also, if you do a show, you don't get paid. I'm like, I don't understand where this goes. I got a job at asos. It was five days a week. I had a paycheck. I was like, this is it. This is my Life. I'm so happy I can move around the corner from the ASOS building. I became the, like, you know, number one Internet model, clicked on for asos. Like, it was a massive deal. I really was like, I got my free, like, sandwich every lunch. There was also, like, a sample sale for, like, five pounds. You get a bag of clothes. I really. That was, like, a very highlight point, and I really thought that that was

[A]

going to be it.

[B]

And then. And then, yeah. I remember I'd been into Burberry before, and I'd done the show castings, and I remember even walking out in the jacket and the woman just being like, no. Like, before I'd even walked or even said anything. And you're like, oh, God. So I remember going in there again and being like, oh, okay, I'll be back again. And meeting Christopher Bailey, who was like, you know, what do you like to do? And I was like, huh? What do I like to do? Oh, well, I mean, I love to act. That's always been my dream. And I play the drums and guitar, and I would love to do music. I just. I don't think I'm good enough. And I just never been asked that before, especially during modeling. I was like, this is the weirdest thing. Is he just. I don't know. And the next day, I was doing the campaign with Jordan Dunn and Mario Tatino, shooting at a beach in Brighton, freezing cold. And I was like, oh, this is different. This is really different. These clothes are different. This environment is different. Like, you know, you're in the, like, the PVC plastic jacket that it is so cold that you're getting blood blisters down your arms. But it's fashion, and you got to make it look good. And you're in high heels on a, like, pebbled beach, and you're like, whatever I'm gonna do, I'm going to make this look easy. But that's what I'd done my whole life is go, I'm gonna make whatever pain this is, but I'm gonna make it. Yeah, I'm gonna serve the cunt.

[A]

No matter how much pain I'm in.

[B]

Yeah, I'm gonna make it look hot, and I'm gonna make people want to want it.

[A]

Was any of that sudden, like, attention or validation healing immediately for you?

[B]

I think the. The thing that I found wonderful and I'll never. I'll never not appreciate and love Krista for that, for this, is that showing me that people. There was people that cared more about some other stuff and, like, to be able to be. I wouldn't have had a career without that and without him because especially when one brand wants you, then everyone wants you and the whole thing happens. And I was just like. But it also gave me a pretty fickle view and a bit of a chip on my shoulder of, like, you all told me I was not good enough, and you all made me feel like dog shit. And now you all want me, and that sucks. But also, you look where I am now, bitch. And I did fucking. Like, I loved it. I enjoyed it. I loved going to shows. And everyone at that point, being very like, modeling is so important, you know, I don't know what accent that is, but, like, just it being so serious. And I was like, what are we all doing here? Let's get crazy. Let's put on my favorite. Let's put on Biggie Smalls and fucking go like. I loved shaking everything up because I was like, people take my picture. I'm gonna do weird faces because I don't take this seriously, and I don't feel pretty. Like, what am I doing? Everyone thought I was either very annoying, which I can see how I was like, I can look back at myself and go, wow, that would have really. This little thing just bubbling around, but also, like, it's locked. Or people were like, wow, that's different.

[A]

I was gonna say. I remember, obviously, we think of models and we just expect them to be seen and not really heard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you brought this personality that was. Even if we didn't hear you actually speaking, was just, like, popping off the page. And it was so loud and it was so exciting to see. But I agree. I do remember some backlash of people being like, yeah, yeah. What the is this girl doing? What is she doing?

[B]

You're not taking it seriously. You're not working hard. You're not. Which. But to me, I was like, it didn't. I was like, we're taking photos here. And we're like, isn't the vibe of, like, if we're all sitting here being really super serious, like, no one's having fun. I don't really understand. Isn't it lucky that we get to do this? But then enjoy it, play music, have fun and sing and dance. And anyone that. Especially at that time who knew me as a model, all I would do is sing and dance and be. That's what made me feel comfortable on set.

[A]

But did you ever have people be like, you need to stop.

[B]

They just wouldn't hire me. They just don't hire you. Or, you know, they do it once and then you never work with them again. But that. But, you know, I had people. It was. I was pretty polarizing. I was quite vocal about how I didn't think modeling was like, the fashion industry was healthy for girls and for so many people, I was in a really fortunate position and was in. In a top percentage where I was making money. But so many of these girls were taken from countries and parents and the agencies. I was very like. That was why I started really feeling quite empty because I didn't like what I was representing. And when little girls would come up to me and their moms and they'd be like, my daughter wants to be a model because of you. And I was like, don't, Don't.

[A]

That's a weird feeling, Cara, because you're like, the thing that I'm doing for a living.

[B]

I don't believe in it. I don't believe what I'm selling. And what I'm selling is a lie. Sorry. That's what it felt like, though, because it also wasn't me. Like, it was me, but I was so. Like. When I'd see a billboard of myself, it wasn't me.

[A]

Oh, God, that's a mind fuck.

[B]

Because it's not. I'm a girl who wears a hoodie, smoking a joint, like, fucking walking around, bare feet and like. Like a little Rossa. Like, I'm not this. Like, what. The billboard. Like, it didn't make sense. My friends found it very bizarre. Like, I came back from doing Victoria's Secret, and my friends were like. I remember I had so many guy friends at the time, and they were like, we didn't know. You were like, hot. I was like, what? And then they were all trying to, like, they were like, which one of us is going to fuck our first? I was like, this is horrible. Like, I'm no different. It's just a patent bra in latex.

[A]

I do think, though, something, and that is why you've had such success, is because you have never dimmed that. That side of yourself, and you have stayed persistent and consistent in the day you got into this industry. And the fun, kooky faces that you brought and the personality. I think that as alienating as it probably was in the beginning, because you're all like, wait, guys, we all are in on this. Right? This is crazy that they're doing this to these women. And we're. Some of us are really privileged.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

From where we come from, so we don't have to maybe do certain things. But you're like.

[B]

And it's also to do with the, you know, the body. The body stuff, the body shaming, how skinny everyone was, the racism, the. Everything surrounding it, the, like, it was really. It was a pretty rough time, in fact. I mean, listen, the 90s and everything were different because I think everyone was on drugs. But it turned into a thing where, like, everyone just became really mean. It was just mean. And people would do things and really degrade you, because even if you were a really big model, you know, some be like, like, why don't you stand on her head in a high heel? Or why don't you get on your, like, all falls and bark like a dog? That's kind of like. Because it made people who had been in the industry who were assistants who'd been treated badly feel big and feel important. And it was just like, oh, I'll do anything you say, because I just.

[A]

Right. And they're perpetuating what actually was so painful to them coming into the industry. And then it just keeps going and going, going. And then it does take people like you, though. That's what I'm saying. It's like, at. At first, it probably was alienating, but then I do think you refusing to conform in some capacity allowed room for other women coming up to look and be like, oh, well, look at what Cara Delevingne is doing. Like, if she can do it, I can do my own version of that.

[B]

It makes me so happy when I see models and I'm. I'm never going to be like, it's. It was me. It's not. But I definitely. I think with social media and people having more of a voice, I also think that was something that allowed me to feel like, oh, I am a person, actually, and I can. Oh, this is fun. And if I don't talk, then what else am I here for? Like, I don't know. And to see people like Alex Konsani and stuff, who. I like it just so the personalities now. And, like, it makes me so happy because it does make me feel more that. More. There's still a lot of work that needs to be done in the world in general, but that at least. Least people are being celebrated for being individual in their personalities, which it was back in the day.

[A]

And I think we have to recognize as women that, like, when you felt like, oh, God, I'm kind of this outlier doing this, it feels that way. But then now, like, you're referencing Alex and all these other people, you clearly were able to do something that then allowed some room for the next generation to do something and it will just continue. But, like, it feels small, but in the collective. If you look at history of what women who push the boundaries do, like, what is that quote? It's like, well behaved women rarely make history. And it's like, here we go.

[B]

Well, I remember seeing something. I think it was Jane Fonda who talked about when she was younger making funny faces. And I don't know why I did it. I never really understood why. I never tried. I wasn't trying to do it. It's because I felt so. Not pretty and I felt so stupid posing all the time that I. I had to do something with my face. I never do that anymore. Maybe it's because I don't want to get wrinkles, but also because, like, I feel way more comfortable. But I remember her talking about it and I was like, oh, my God, it's this thing I can't control. Like, it maybe felt like a bit of a tick. Like, I do have ticks. So I think it could have also been that. But it was interesting. Especially when you learn more about women who come before you and women who pave the way. They're very. They're always, you know, they're more. More likely to rewrite history. Exactly what you're saying by not conforming.

[A]

It is. And it's almost like Freudian for us. Like, you had that thing of Jane Fonda and it seeped into you. And then someone is thinking unknowingly about Cara Delevingne as they are going into their field. So it's like it all is a trickle down effect.

[B]

I mean, I definitely stick my tongue out, so. But that's.

[A]

We love that version of you, Cara. I have a couple pictures in my mouth. I was thinking about it.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Social media.

[B]

Oh, God. Yeah.

[A]

A reason you also, you just said it yourself. Like, you were able, I think for us to see your personality and you were able to shine is because Tumblr, social media, like, that was such a huge part of you when you kind of came on the scene. So I have a couple pictures. I just want your reactions to them. Okay.

[B]

Like facially, anything, whatever.

[A]

You want an interpretive dance. Okay.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I still have that T shirt.

[A]

You do?

[B]

Yeah. And that hat. Oh, my God. I'm a hoarder, though.

[A]

I told you this, this photo, it like broke Tumblr back in the day.

[B]

Obviously I wasn't. So I wasn't super aware of Tumblr when people talk about it now. I was like, oh, yeah, I never.

[A]

You were like the Face of Tumblr.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know.

[A]

I wasn't aware, darling.

[B]

No, I wasn't aware. I really wasn't.

[A]

People still comment this photo in your comment section on TikTok. Like, this photo, Cara, I love lemon. Do you remember anything about where this was taken, what this photo is?

[B]

No.

[A]

Nothing?

[B]

No idea? No, babe. There are so many photos of myself that I see and I'm like, couldn't tell you when, where, who took it. No idea.

[A]

Okay. Every girl wanted the eyebrows. They kind of were like a staple. Do you remember the commentary on the eyebrows and did it make you more self conscious or more confident?

[B]

Really good question. I'd hated my eyebrows. My mother was always like, you gotta. You gotta keep him. But I don't. I don't know. I just remember as I got older, I. When I say I don't remember any of it, I think because fame is even more powerful of a. Whatever happened to my central nervous system? I was so completely burnt out and shocked that I was like, I'm just gonna black this all out. Like, I really. That wasn't even when I was doing. I think I was doing more drugs when I was a teenager and that period of time, I was just working so much. Obviously I was probably partying a bit, but, yeah, I don't know. It's when I got older and people would ask me about my eyebrows all the time. It annoyed me. I was like, please, I have other things. I was like, I can't talk for them. I wish they could speak, but I don't know how to explain them. I don't know what they would say, like, what it's like trying to represent a part of your body that I wish had a voice. It doesn't. I'm so sorry.

[A]

Okay, here we go.

[B]

Oh, my God. I love that picture. I love that.

[A]

So good. What do you remember about this iconic photo?

[B]

I do remember that because it was around the time where it was like, me, Jordan and Carly and we were all Leos and we were bopping around New York and they were like the height that models were meant to be at that point, which was like six foot. And I was five foot, seven and a half. I say five eight, but whatever. And again, I'd love. I loved a statement T. I love to cap. I don't even know if I thought I was gay at that point, but I was eating a sticker saying, eat. Treat your girl right. Eat your girl right. Yeah, I remember that photo. I don't remember it being taken, but I remember it Seeing it.

[A]

I love you. Okay, next photo.

[B]

Yeah. This is fun. Oh, God.

[A]

This is you at the Victoria's Secret fashion show in 2012.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Is it true you were originally supposed to come out on rollerblades?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And why are you like shying away and looking and blushing? What is this bringing up for you?

[B]

Because I. Anyone that asked me if I could rollerblade, juggle, drive a car, anything that I couldn't do, I would be like 100% I could do that I couldn't. Wasn't good because I always, I had a confidence that I. If I learned, if I really tried to do something that I could. I mean, they asked me to do that maybe a day before and in the rehearsals, whatever. Rollerblading. Is it skating? It was the four wheeled skating down the thing and the. The catwalk is slippery. I was closing that section, I think at that point, and I fell and Justin caught me and they were like, you have to do that again. Like you have to close the show like that. I was like, sorry. Basically because I didn't know how to stop at the end. So I fell and he caught me. And that was very sweet. But I was like, I don't know, on like live tv, like, no, I can't do that. And that's probably one of the first times I said no. But also those shows, like, I was not sober in the sense that like, I don't want to speak for the rest of the girls, but like that is not a nice. It wasn't a nice environment. Personally, I think something about. I don't know what my gender express. I know what my gender expression would be. I'm very happy and proud of being a woman. But it definitely changed how feminine I. What is the word? How feminine I seem or come off because of modeling. Because it felt like that was a part like I growing up, I was like, I had short hair. I didn't like having long hair. I didn't like wearing girls clothes. Like, I really didn't like being a girl because I just thought that girls didn't get the same opportunities. They didn't get to play with the toys that I wanted to play with and I didn't want to, you know, that kind of stuff. So I think for modeling I really had to become this girl that I wasn't. And this like sexy, like that's just not.

[A]

And this was peak like that. Presenting. So presenting. Presenting, presenting.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You were presenting so ultra feminine.

[B]

And I'm not that.

[A]

And that's not who you are.

[B]

At all.

[A]

And so before. But that.

[B]

That feels fun. It felt like dress up, but then there was something darker about it that I. Because also, that show, like, I was in the closet. I was gay. I was also like, am I the only, like, lesbian that's ever done Victoria's Secret? Like, this is a big deal. Yeah, shake your asses. You want me to do up your bra? Like, 100%. Like, I was having a great time, but also, like, very confused. I felt like I was an undercover lesbian.

[A]

No, you're backstage being like, no one knows, but okay.

[B]

I remember seeing Candace Swannable and being like, I faint. I like, this is such a weird story. Oh, my God. We were in a. We were in a hotel room eating pizza, and I can't remember. I hope she doesn't get angry that I'm telling this story. It's really funny. She came in the bathroom. I think maybe we were smoking a joint. I don't really know. She came in the bathroom and she took, like. She took off her clothes. Not in a sexual way. That's what models do. And I passed out.

[A]

Cora.

[B]

I fully passed out. Or like, I. I was, like, standing up and I had to fall back on the toilet. And she was like, are you okay? I was like, 100.

[A]

I'm fine.

[B]

Are you okay? I'm gonna. I have something in my eye.

[A]

You know, you're like, I gotta get out of here.

[B]

It was a lot like the gay panic. People talk about gay panic now. Like, I was constantly.

[A]

And I think. I think that really makes sense, though, now looking back. Like, first of all, this baby Cara having so many. I can't.

[B]

I can't. I can't with.

[A]

With the butt again.

[B]

I woke up, probably had a couple shots of whiskey and a Xanax, and you wouldn't get Runway.

[A]

You wouldn't get nervous to walk a Runway on.

[B]

Not after that. I was having a time. My life after that. Horrible.

[A]

I think. I do think that is so, though, just illuminating to that entire time period. Because I do think that seeing you up there, so many women would look at you and just be like, I want to look like her. I want to be her. And that's real life, though. This is like the same shit as Instagram where you're like, babe, no, not so.

[B]

The amount of cutlets in that, like, especially because, like, everyone else was very, like, womanly bodies and, like, you know, skinny and muscy and whatever else. But I was. I am still up and down, like a little rig. Like, I have no ass. Like, at that point, I was like, I'm not a Victoria's Secret angel. I'm a devil. Like, I'm not part of this. I remember when they asked me to be, when I was like, I don't think I belong here. Like, I don't think this is.

[A]

And then you do it. And it kind of goes back to the beginning of what you were saying about modeling, where you're like, I don't fully know if I believe in this, so this feels weird. So I'm gonna numb myself, essentially, to get through it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. This is so cute. Are you ready?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Hi.

[A]

Okay. Cake. Cake. The Internet is obviously obsessed with you and Kendall Jenner's relationship and all the iconic photos we have of the two of you. Do you remember who came up with this friendship name? Was it you guys, or was it the Internet?

[B]

No, it was us. Oh, God. I don't remember. I don't know, but I had necklaces made. Bro, we were. I think it was us. I'm pretty. Cara. Kendall, Cake. I don't know, actually. That is a super good question.

[A]

Okay, but you leaned in.

[B]

No, but maybe it was that love cover that we did for the first time, which is where we basically really became friends and met, that maybe it was on that cover. Well, I'm holding her or she's holding. I don't remember.

[A]

But that was when you have such, like, iconic friendships that the Internet is obsessed with. Like, do you enjoy leaning in and doing stuff like this?

[B]

I think at that point, it was so. Because it felt like at that point, we were like, especially when you have friendships when you're modeling like that, it makes. I wouldn't have been able to do it with any of those girls that supported me through it. Like, especially, like, again, Jordan Dunn and, like, women who, even before Kendall, when I was really young, that they were worried about me, you know, and they were ones being like, what are you doing? Like, this is so bad. You're working too much. Like, you know, whether it's agents are giving you drugs to just got to walk on catwalks or whatever else. Like, it was. I had really, really solid friendships of people who were really honest with me. So when you have that camaraderie, yeah, you want to lean in. People going to take a picture of your model. At that point, you're like, let's go. Yeah, we're on a world tour. That was our. You know, we went to. I took Kendall to Glastonbury, and Gigi was hysterical.

[A]

Oh, my. That's amazing.

[B]

It's hysterical.

[A]

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[B]

You.

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[B]

Access to excess money, you know, and my dad was pretty smart with me when I left school because he was like, I'm not gonna give you money. You know, you can't. I'm not gonna fund whatever they thought or maybe didn't think. I remember when I had a mental breakdown, I told them, like, I'd been smoking weed. Like they didn't know I was doing drugs, but either way, they, they didn't cut me off. I still lived at home, but they weren't like, you know, they were smart about that. But then I had my own fucking money. I could do whatever I wanted, and I knew where to get all the drugs and all the things. And I also was in a friendship group that none of my friends had money. So I was just like, let's go. Let's fucking go. Like, this is gonna be so, so fun. And at that point, you know, we were like, it's going to be entourage. We're all gonna lift, you know, love that.

[A]

I also can't help but think, like, you're in the middle of trying to figure yourself out because we talked about, like, high school. You're repressing, you're kind of using. So you can just be like, I can't handle this. I don't know what's going on. You get thrown into fame and like, you've talked about and I've talked about with a lot of people, like, there is no way to describe it, but it's hard to not just black out and you can look back on it, but when you're in it, you just have to survive and go, go, go. And so you're trying to figure yourself out. You have all this attention on you. How is this impacting your dating life? And like, you said that Victoria's Secret moment, you hadn't come out yet. You hadn't, you know, explored your sexuality fully. Yeah, tell me about that.

[B]

Well, also back to what you just said before as well. I. It's also an identity thing. And I think when you come from being like, what feels like a kind of, of traumatized child, not to be dramatic about it, to then a suicidal druggie teenager, to them being a model that you're not, but you're pretending to be. So many things for people. You actually, I'm like, who the hell? I haven't processed any of this yet. This is all a mess. And I'm none of these things or all of them. I really felt like such a shell at that point. And a real, like, I remember writing a lot about how I just was a mirror of everyone I'd ever met and there was nothing underneath it. I was just an empty vessel. Not to be depressing about it, but especially with dating. Oh, my God. I, I, yeah, it's rough because, again, I didn't want to be gay. I really wanted to fit in with people in, like, I didn't know many Gay. I didn't know any gay people. I definitely wasn't straight. But I really like. And especially in something you have been so incredible in talking about, like, I never knew how to ask for what I wanted. And it was very much a performative thing that I would be like, whatever, this guy. And to the point where it's like, you know, whether it's sexual assault or it's like, to the point where you're just like, oh, I'm just abusing myself to. To. To basically make someone happy. If you want to have sex with me, I should feel lucky for that. Like, that kind of thing. Horrible. But then, you know, I discovered more about my sexuality through sleeping with my friends because there was a safety in there. That also didn't mean we were gay. You know, we all had boyfriends, but whatever. You know, whatever happens when the lights go off, that doesn't really mean anything. But then I started to look back on when I was a kid, and I was like. I always had this thing where with, like, friends of mine, I just think I cared about them more than they cared about me. But then I also realized that any man I'd ever been with, and I felt very bad for these men because they'd always. I think I'd play such a role of this cool girl who loved to play video games and would let them flirt with people, but was just, like, so cool and chill that they would fall in love with me. But I was so pretending to be something I wasn't. And I just felt. I felt. I feel. Any man that I hurt, I feel really bad because I did take these actually very nice guys for a ride, because I didn't know. And I also. I was quite hurt by one guy specifically who took my virginity. And I was like, after this, I'm going to hurt all of you. It's so rude and mean.

[A]

But I do think it's like, you, yes, you can be like, okay, I'm sorry, boys. But I also think in the grand scheme of what you were trying, they

[B]

didn't also want me. Even when I tried to speak about maybe my sexuality being so different, they were like, no, no, it's not. I'll show you that kind of stuff. It was very much like. But that was so. Back in the day, that was.

[A]

It's also. So men where you're like, like, no, you can't show me you don't have a vagina. Okay. So off. And they're like, oh, and my clit is here.

[B]

It's not here.

[A]

Oh, wow. Cara. Okay, that makes, I think, the. So many women, regardless of, you know, what they're dealing with. I do think that's a really relatable thing of just going through that period as a young woman of being like, is this validation? Should I just feel good in this and should I not ask for more? And if he's treating me like this, like, I can look past it because at least someone wants me and someone is, you know, giving me attention. And so then you.

[B]

When you said something about validation and it helping me in my head, it really did, because it helped my ego. It helped my ego in the sense that I was like, maybe I am pretty, but it didn't come from inside. I think something that I really had to learn is that I really believe that we all have everything we need inside of us. And I was so externally reaching for anything that, like, I just was empty. And so you really have to, like, grow that garden in yourself.

[A]

You do. And from, you know, like, then experimenting with your friends. Like, do you remember when you finally realize, like, okay, I think it's women

[B]

for me, immediately, deep down, immediately. But I couldn't. My brain was not computing that it was not happening. Like, absolutely not. But my body was like, oh, this is where I feel safe. Oh. And then my heart, I couldn't control. Like, I always felt like I was in control with men. Like, I'm going around with women. It was a nightmare. But also, I think I hadn't. There was still a lot of trauma with the thing of trying to fix people and the abandonment, which I think I put into a lot of my relationships for a long time.

[A]

When do you think your mind and your body connected? And you were like, I have to accept this. And.

[B]

I think. I think when I was in my first real relationship with a woman, and I think I'd never been with someone who was gay either. And, you know, we. She was 10 years older than me, and I really admired her. But, yeah, I'd never been with someone who was actually gay and not. We're kind of in secrecy and stuff like that. And I was like, oh, this is. This is everything.

[A]

How did you feel with regard to your upbringing? And I know you had said, like, I didn't really have anyone around me who was G. And I didn't know with my parents or people around me, like, how I. How did everyone handle it when you did come out and just say, like, this is who I am.

[B]

Oh, I didn't come out because that's, again, a conversation that I didn't know how to have. And I, I didn't feel like I owed that to anyone either. And I think it would be unfortunately different and I think I would have found it a lot harder if I hadn't have been famous or successful because I think you can't really have an opinion too much when that person doesn't need you or is not vying for your. I mean of course I always want to make my parents proud but I wasn't like they couldn't stop me and I felt like they would have been able to, they would have been able to have an opinion more if I don't know. I think that was also just part of the drive of wanting to look after myself and survive on my own and be like I can do and be with whoever I want.

[A]

And I think that's very relatable I think when you are financially or emotionally dependent on people and I think that's why a lot of young kids are so scared to come out because they're like, I still live under their roof. I know what their reaction is probably going to be. And so it's so fear based because it's not just you know, coming out and, and being open about your sexuality which should be such a beautiful and celebrated thing. There's so many repercussions that can come that actually safety wise for a lot of people it's just, it is a privilege unfortunately, which is so crazy to even have to say to this day. So I see what you're saying where you're like I had kind of cut those ties in that way of I made my own money. I was this public person. So if you don't like me, you can go yourself kind of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what a freeing feeling that must have been.

[B]

Yeah. But also in that point the industry didn't want me to be gay either. You know, there was why but like that point, that point and when I just started acting where like Harvey Weinstein called me and was like, you can't be gay. It's just stuff like that where I again, there were also no real gay models. But it's weird because now you're, now as I've grown up, there are so many, many people I went to school with or people I was close with who now were all gay but we didn't know it at the time, but we were all friends. And you're like, that's just interesting. We all had this thing that we knew and now everyone, you know, they have wives or go and like you're like, that's just it's just crazy.

[A]

At that time when you were trying to search for relationships, what do you think at, in those, like mid-20s was holding you back the most from happiness?

[B]

Because I couldn't love, I couldn't receive love. And I don't think I didn't love myself enough to have healthy sexual experimentation in the sense that I think I had my healthy, fair share of sexual experimentation, but it was usually fueled by drugs, danger seeking behavior, situations where I thought, oh, that's a fantasy I have, but I didn't really actually want that, you know, And I think that came into that thing of just wanting to feel something even if it's bad and even if it's empty and. Yeah, and I also think it took, it took until all the Harvey stuff too, to really realize that I had been sexually abused. And I hate to use the word rape, it just always makes me so sad, but that, that, that kind of thing. And I'd put myself in those positions but never admitted it or wanted to deal with it or made excuses for it, felt bad. But that made so much sense with how I would just let people use me a lot, whether that be sexually or in any other way, because I felt like that's all I was good for sometimes.

[A]

So can I ask? So he called you and, and told you, you cannot be gay. And is this before or after this experience with this man?

[B]

So there was. Wait, it was before. It was still when everyone was doing his movies, bopping around, you know, he had his wife who was, you know, in that industry. You know, I've been to dinner with both of them with a bunch of people. You know, he had a wife and kids. He seemed safe, right? And he got my number. I was doing a movie called Face of an angel in Italy. And he called me up and said, there are images of you. And he named some famous women I'd been seen with. And he was like, I don't need to know. He said, are you sleeping with him? Whatever. I was like, I don't really know if that's any of your business. And he was like, like, well, you can't, you can't be with women. You'll never be an actress. You'll never be hired. People don't want, you know, we'll have to find you a boyfriend at least if you're going to do that, just do it behind closed doors. And I was like, what the is this? I was. And also. But at that point, that wasn't my reaction. I was like, oh, I've always wanted to act like this is such a big deal for me. I can't.

[A]

You're terrified.

[B]

This is. Yeah. Like, he's a big deal in this.

[A]

And how did you respond in that moment?

[B]

I don't know. I just said, I'm not gay. I promise you, I'm not. I. I just. I'm not seeing a boy right now. I really love my female friends, and of course, I did. And I think even the people he brought up, I. I don't know. I can't remember. But, yeah, I was. I was pretty terrified, of course, because

[A]

it's a person in a position of power who's literally talking about how you won't work in this industry if you essentially are authentic and true to who you are. And so you are just getting reconfirmation of, like, hide, keep suppressing.

[B]

But also at that point, like, you know, and still I. I regret not. It's not a regret. I don't have regrets. But every role I played at that point was straight. I was the lead and I had a boyfriend, and, you know, I was playing that woman. So, I mean, was he right at that time? No. But at. At that point, what was I gonna do?

[A]

Right? And again, I think for Yukara, it was like, there's so much pressure of, like, the Victoria's Secret moment and this. You're like, I know what I want, but it's like, how do I get there? Like, how do I roll this out for myself in a way that won't make other people upset and won't have people trying to hurt me because of me, just trying to be honest to myself. And that is so, so complicated. And then, like you said, like, you then are in these situations where you're, you know, you're using and you're trying to suppress, and then you're also repressed. And it's like, whoa, I need all this to kind of stop so I can try to get my head on straight. I know you have, like, lightly spoken about your sobriety.

[B]

Not a lot. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, a lot. And you talked about this earlier, too, where you've said you tried to match the emotional pain inside with physical pain on the outside since a very young age. Can you talk more about what that just, like, looked like for you as you kind of started to get to peak where you were like, maybe this is getting a little out of control. Yeah,

[B]

yeah, I think, you know, as I said, when I first started doing drugs, it was that seeking for. Seeking connection. And I felt like I found myself, you know, I was fun and I Loved music and I loved dancing. And I was like, oh, this is someone I really like. This is really cool. It was at a pretty young age I started, because I didn't have money at that point, I started buying drugs to sell them and to do them. And I remember ketamine was really the first thing that I think, which. Which is a really crazy thing for me now because I remember when I got sober from that, and that was in my early 20s that it blew up in America. And it was like this thing to treat depression. Everywhere, Instagram adverts, billboards, people talking about it. I was like, what? I mean, I knew it numbed me out like a hundred percent, but like a lot of things, people don't realize the danger behind that, because how badly are the things you're running away from and how badly when you numb them, they all come flooding back. They don't go away. They don't. So that's when I think when I. When I bought the drugs to sell, I just did them all by myself. Not all of them. I sold half of them, did the rest. So I basically did the drugs for free. Wasn't a great drug dealer, but I definitely. I knew it was bad when I started doing them alone and how much I liked that and how much I knew that people weren't judging me and I didn't judge myself for it and I could disappear and that I knew it was a problem. And that was young. But with work, it's not a problem because I'm working, I'm making money. You know, it's. You know, I would be in a state or I'd definitely be more fucked up than people, but I am going to work. When you're 20s, you can kind of do that a little more. But then my body just couldn't take it, you know, I think I also, again, I think the kind of suicidal ideation came back around when I was at my height of fame, when I should have been the most happy and I felt the most guilty and I felt the most. Like I didn't deserve any of it. And I was so close to ending my life. Not. I mean, yeah, I was. Music at that moment really saved me because a song came on, on shuffle when I was alone in this hotel room. And it was a song that played at a friend's funeral who died of an overdose. And it was a really. It was like. That's the thing when you're in that position where you can choose to try and end your life or not, that it is such a Quick flip. And in that one moment, I was like, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? I. I can't believe that I am in this place. And I threw all the drugs down the toilet and I. So, yeah, it. It had been a problem, but when you're successful and when you seem. You're doing great, you have your hair and makeup done, it's kind of fine. People make excuses. People are making money. You're paying for people's lives and jobs and kids. You know, you don't. You don't want to stop. You don't want to say no.

[A]

Did you have friends close to you that ever were like, Cara,

[B]

Yes. But also I was good. If I say I was good at hiding it, people be like, no, you weren't. But if people thought it was bad what they saw, they didn't see half of it. The damage was really being done alone, because that's where no one could stop me. And also, I was so good at flitting around different countries and different groups of friends. If I haven't slept for three days, but then I see these group of friends and I'm still. Whatever. No one knows. Knows how long I haven't slept. No one knows that I've been partying for this long. It's. You can kind of.

[A]

Yeah, you can get away with it in a way that. But unfortunately for you, it's like. Then you also have. You're like, oh, I'm. I'm lying and I'm avoiding the.

[B]

Lying is the worst. It's horrible. It's a secret. It's like. And that just wears away at you so much. And that was also. I didn't realize how many friends I lost, not even lost, but had pushed away because there was nothing no one could do. And I didn't want help. I didn't want people close to me. I didn't want people. You know, I could talk about it when I was high. I'd be like, I know I have a problem. I know it's really bad. But also, there's a power in having that, because then you seem really self aware, right?

[A]

You're like, I'm owning it.

[B]

I know it's bad. Like, I know how bad it is. And da, da, da, da. And. And I had all the answers. I'd also been to therapy since I was a kid from stuff that had gone on with my mom. So I knew all the chat and,

[A]

like, you knew how to get around it. So people are like, oh, well, if she's this open about it, Then. But really it had also come. It seems like you earlier had said, like, it was. So I connected with people and it's like it went from connecting to then isolating and hiding. And that is when. Yeah, then no one's really seeing at its worst. I know there were paparazzi photos of you.

[B]

There were many, by the way, throughout my. Throughout my tenure. I don't know why I just said 10. But no, obviously the. The worst one.

[A]

The Burning Man. Yes, the Burning man photos. Ultimately, I know they kind of became a wake up call. Can you talk to me about, like, just where you were at mentally leading up to that moment?

[B]

Yeah, I. I had sworn myself off love. I had been in too many relationships. I don't want to say that. I think, you know, when you abuse yourself, you allow abuse to happen. Right. That's as probably far as I'll go with that. But I think, yeah, I was done with love and. And I was in a pretty hardcore time again. I'd stopped doing ketamine, but I was. It's really interesting, the drugs that people choose to do and what that means that they're covering up. Alcohol was never really my thing. I would drink, but it wasn't. I didn't like it. I liked, like, disassociate, knock yourself out things. So I was doing a lot of, like, gbl, gbh, which is like a date rape drop drug, which is you're just effectively knocking yourself out and then taking like cocaine or whatever to keep me awake. So it was that kind of, like, mixture. But I'd met my girlfriend, my current girlfriend, my life partner, who we went to school together. And from the moment that we had re met after school, I was like, you make me feel safe. And that is something I haven't felt. And I am way more terrified of that than I've ever been of love. Because in that even immediate moment, I was like, oh, no, I'm starting to realize how bad this is. You don't know how bad it is when you're alone and single, I guess. And I was honest with her from the first get go. I was like, I have a problem. I take G every day. I'm gonna get better. I'm gonna turn. My 30th birthday was that year. I was like, I've fucking gained it for however long and had a great time and it's just not great anymore. But I'm gonna have a blowout 30th birthday, and then I'm gonna get sober. And it tied up in a neat little Bow that I just thought was gonna be really easy. I didn't know how. How addictive that stuff was. I just thought I took it every day. I didn't know you really had to, like, medically detox from it. And I started having seizures. And that's literally. Those photos were taken right after I'd had a seizure at Burning Man. And I was meant to go to work. I mean, it was just an absolute storm. And also, it was just. It was so rough. And it was right after my birthday, so I'd had the 30th, which was just me in. It was so stupid. But I'd rented this amazing house and I had all my friends there, but they were kind of all there to watch me hurt myself. I was so skinny and carved in bruises, and I just locked myself in this little tower and would barely come out. And that is like. But that was what. I just. I don't know. There's something quite traditional in the sense that when I'm like, when I make this decision, it's gonna happen. I also just couldn't give up that easily. Cause then obviously I went straight to Burning Man. Then that happened, and I was like, I can get sober. I'd been to rehab before, but I'd focus more on trauma. And then I'd kind of dip back into things. I was like, if I don't. You know, the one thing I always told myself was because my mom did very heavy drugs, I was like, if I don't do meth or crack or opiate, I'll be fine. If you do enough of anything, it's just as bad. Which is really interesting, which is why also, I found it. I found it important not to talk about what drugs I did. But then it's interesting the comments that people make when they're like, you know, go back and do meth and die and stuff like that. When I'm like, maybe I should have spoken about it. Why am I hiding? Because also, I want people, I think, especially getting sober. I didn't see anyone else who did the same drugs I did. And I was always like, do Adderall and that's alcohol and opiates. And I don't. When you find someone who has a similar thing to you, it's like finding like a long lost sibling in a way, because you're like, you're running from a similar thing. There's a similar torsion there. There's a similar. The battle of it feels the same. So I felt it was necessary to talk about it today. I Think I'd never done before.

[A]

Well, I really respect that too.

[B]

But the fact that I was. People always thought that I was on such crazy drugs. I was like a lot of those times though, I was so manic. And also I'm a super hyperactive person. I don't drink coffee and I am just. It's a lot sometimes.

[A]

How does it feel to say it out loud?

[B]

Nice. Nice. And I'm sweating though, for sure. But it's nice. I don't.

[A]

Is it like a relief?

[B]

My whole thing is, again with this stuff, people are gonna take clips of what they want and that's always gonna be what it is. But I don't. I've made peace with it. And if I can help people, anyone can say whatever they want. I know what I've done. I'm happy with who I am. I don't have any regrets. Regrets. I love myself. I've stopped hurting myself. I do sometimes still in ways that I like again, like dangerous. You can. Behavior will push myself too hard or work out. It comes out in other ways. But also to me, sobriety is not so linear. Like 12 step really helped me. But that's not what's been my saving grace. And I think, yeah, I think the whole thing of sobriety and the. The shame and the guilt surrounding it, I found really difficult.

[A]

I can imagine that. I wanna. Because I wanna ask you about that. But also validating you in like, so much of what you were going through for so long. You were saying you were hiding and there was a secrecy element and there was this rationalizing you're talking about in your head of like, well, I'm not doing what my mom was doing, so I'm fine. I'm fine.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then it's almost like naming it allows you to own it in a sense and be like, there. That is. That is what it was. And I'm not hiding from it at all. I'm not hiding anymore. And I'm not going to hide from it because there is also no shame. And like, you're sitting here today and you're right, it really could help someone who's sitting there being like, oh, my God, I never thought that that could be addictive. And I've been doing it too. And maybe I need to look at myself. Whatever it is, or it's just for yourself that you're able to say it and move forward with your life in a way that's not shame and holding it back. I think that's really beautiful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But getting sober, also the element of being so public. Like, I can't help but think these videos and these photos come out in one of your worst.

[B]

I always laugh and I don't know why I do that, and I apologize. It's because it's so outrageous. I was wearing a Britney Spears T shirt. Not that that means anything, but like, it's, it's so. But also, like, I'd seen that person. I know that girl so well. I had to look at her every day in the mirror. So when everyone else saw, I was like, oh, oh, that's scary to people. Oh, shit.

[A]

I see. So you. It wasn't even. You're like, oh, those are pictures of me. And then did I mean, I realize it was bad.

[B]

A butt. Oh, it was horrible. The shame. Oh, the shame was really bad. Again, that was that part of myself that I hated and I was hiding from everyone. So for everyone to see it, it was like, the jig's up. That still, that person is still a part of me, though. Once you get sober, that. That girl isn't gone. She's here. She's pretty mean to me sometimes, but I made friends with her and she makes me want to be better. And God, she's a stubborn bitch sometimes, but my God, yeah, I mean, you have to make friends with that part of yourself.

[A]

So much of your. The songs and the album is like, Is talking about this part of your life.

[B]

Yes. And never ending inspiration.

[A]

Can you talk, though? Because you just said, like, you know, it wasn't that this 12 step program for you, like, what was that process for you, like, of getting sober and what really helped you?

[B]

There's a narrative, right, about addiction. Addiction that is, you know, abstinence is the most important thing and it's very rigid. I don't do well with that. But they also will tell you, you know, addicts always think they're different. You're always going to think you are the one that's going to cheat the system and da, da, da, da. For sure. I feel that way. I know it's not healthy. I know I have to combat that sometimes. But I also know that that system for me, hadn't worked in the past. It didn't. There's a part of it where, like, you know, whether it's, oh, I've decided to. I'm going to try and microdose a mushroom right. In previous iterations of sobriety that would take me down, that my, my count has gone back to zero again, I'm not sober. I can't call myself a sober person. Then that cycle of guilt and shame, oh, I'm done. Now I'm not sober, so now I'm fucked up and now I'm going to do drugs was so strong and such a pull that I also like in my head when I'm told I can't do something when I have the option to go, I could go have a beer but I choose not to. The power I have in that is something I would never realize I could get. And like, I love people doing drugs. Not that sounds like a crazy thing, but I love the culture, I love music, I love festivals. I loved that part of going into a bathroom with loads of people and talking. So I still love doing that. I just don't do the drugs because they don't work for me. But I. The whole thing of like, you cannot do anything because this will happen in this, it was too. I would prefer to. I don't feel like they're mistakes, but I would prefer to toe a line of I'm not trying to walk an edge. I'm never trying to go back to what I was doing. My priority is clarity, sobriety to the utmost and loving myself. And so I never want to go back to that place. But I also think just pretending it doesn't exist and never seeing it and never doing it isn't how I get there.

[A]

Giving yourself some grace.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Call Her Daddy is brought to you by T Mobile daddies. I'm starting to suspect that a night in is the new nightlife. Okay? This is my life now. Snacks, comfy clothes. I want to romanticize doing absolutely nothing. And on those nights when I'm staying in, T mobile has me covered with value that keeps on stacking up the more I use it like, like. Hi. Streaming benefits and snack perks that truly deliver. Guys, the math is mathing, okay? There are so many perks and benefits. T Mobile is basically making staying in a full blown lifestyle powered by carbs and content. I am a T Mobile Stan. Okay? Anyone that makes me feel not only better but great about staying in? Yeah, I love you T Mobile. Okay? And if you have T Mobile like I do, you won't believe how good staying in can be. Check it out at t mobile.com/magenta Status Disclaimer, streaming benefits included. While you maintain a qualifying experience beyond plan line, Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Shopify. If you are an avid online shopper, then you know there's something really reassuring about seeing the Purple Shop pay button at checkout. Oh, it hits every time. No, it literally hits Every single time. And business owners know that Shopify's Shop Pay button means a streamlined one click checkout, which means fewer abandoned carts and better conversion rates, which equals happier customers and less stress all around. It's basically a science. Okay? Shop Pay removes the friction. More completed orders, fewer drop offs. Shopify lets you move faster, reach more people, and operate like a real business from day one. Let me tell you something. When I am selling, call her Daddy. Merch. Unwell. Merch. Shopify has changed my life. And they've also changed my life as a consumer. Because, yes, when I hit that button, boom, all my information's in there. Boom. I'm just, I'm shopping away. Okay? That can be your life. To build your store, own your audience, and create something that lasts. Start [e-mail] daddy. In your new single, I Forgot, you describe.

[B]

Do you know how much I say I forgot without knowing it now? And I say it every day. I'm like, I've got a to stop. I forget a lot of parents.

[A]

Well, it's good because you named your song that.

[B]

Yeah, it's ideal.

[A]

And now you'll never forget. Never, never, never. You describe how jarring it can be to experience daily life while now sober. What were some of the first things you noticed and had to kind of confront as you really started to wean off what you had been using?

[B]

Oh, I was just so fragile. I was so fragile. And I, you know, another. Another point was that I first started talking about me getting sober for American Vogue when I was in rehab and having that conversation and being like, I'm gonna be sober now. This is what I'm doing and I'm gonna do a Vogue cover and I'm gonna talk about it. I was still. What I felt like was that I was a baby. I feel like a newborn child, but who can technically talk and walk and feed themselves, I guess, and hopefully change your underwear, but you don't. You are not fully formed. Your brain is like, oh, yeah, a lot. Again, I don't. When I was. I wrote a lot of that stuff and poetry, a lot more of. It was so intense when I was using, so it wasn't as extreme. But you're just a raw nerve. And that's what that song is about. I don't feel that way anymore, thank God. But I still relate to it. And I love that song because for me, it's that thing of like that softness of a phrase and then the whiplash of absolute distortion, like being slapped around the face with a sonic boom. And that's what it felt like being in my head and in my body. And when you talked about, like, your head and your. Your body syncing up again, it's like my. My body and my head started to talk again. But that's what the different sounds were happening. It was just like.

[A]

That's what you said in that Vogue piece. You said I hadn't uncovered the hole inside the real whirlpool within now as you are that. Because that was in 2023. And you're like, I was basically a baby deer walking around being like, guys, I know I'm saying I'm so.

[B]

This is Bambi. All nights with the spread ever.

[A]

We're trying here now. It's like, what have you found inside of you that had been repressed and waiting to be uncovered of all of these wounds of childhood and repression? And then you just get famous so you don't have time to think about it. Like, has anything come up recently that you're like, I've now been able to kind of tackle this.

[B]

That is the first question. I'm like, I. That's a really interesting question in the sense that you mean, like, tackling things that happened or that happen now or that things I've learned about myself.

[A]

Anything. Anything that you're like, oh, my God. I realized from childhood, because I was never able to feel the way that I. Da, da, da da. Or when I was using, I felt this.

[B]

Oh, anger. Straight back to anger.

[A]

And where does the anger come from?

[B]

I have a pit of anger in me because I never expressed it. And I think, yeah, when you grow up loving someone who is sick and you can't help them, and you would die to save them, and there's no reason for it, you have no one to blame. You can't really blame them. You try. Doesn't work. You just hate yourself because they're sick. There is this anger that you have that you're just angry against the world and. But then also angry at yourself for feeling angry because you're like, there are so many people with so much worse in this world. How do I feel? It's just. It's that. That cyclical.

[A]

But anger is a secondary emotion.

[B]

But I also.

[A]

Well, so what's underneath the anger, Cara?

[B]

Oh, I don't know. I really love anger and my relationship with it now, it is a secondary emotion. But I also think for me, it's like a fire. I need it to come out. It doesn't have to be anyone, but it has to come out in a healthy way. Otherwise, I hurt myself. That's it. So there isn't. And look, I cry. I would feel as much as I can. But there is something. I can't describe it. And it feels like whatever stuff I had to deal with after I was coming off of drugs, I would black out with a physical trauma thing. And it came from this. I can't describe it. You just see red or black and sludge. And I would wake up on another side of a room. And it just comes from this, like, this repressed thing. And I think that's what the anger is. It's just the repression of so long of. It's just that. But with that comes so much creativity and fire. And for this album, too, like, I feel like I can be angry and funny and sexy in a way that I like, not in, like, a way for anyone else. And. And every emotion that I was scared of, I now see as, like, an amazing gift. And I never had that. I was so scared of feeling.

[A]

Well, I think that's. Well, yeah. And it's like you're making space for all these different emotions that, like, you also weren't able to feel while you were using. And I. I wrote that down. The other single, obviously Out Of My Head, which is great. I love it. It talks about these intrusive thoughts and dissociation and now having, you know, been living in your sobriety. How are you managing these emotions on a daily basis? Like, what. What have you been able to process after coming out of that kind of dissociating?

[B]

That song's really interesting because it was based on the idea of being at dinner with a family. Not mine specifically, but maybe. But being at a dinner with people and everyone's talking, but no one's saying the truth of what's really going on underneath. And originally the song was called Talking Heads because everyone's just chatting and no one's really fucking saying it. And. And that song, for me, it was funny because changing it to out of My Head is something I constantly am trying to do is get out of my head and into my body. But people can take it as I want to get fucked. Which I just like the dichotomy of that. Because I also don't want this album to be like. This is a sober album and people who have to listen to. I really have to understand. Like, I really. It's really interesting when I played it to people because people think it's about something completely different, which I love. Love that part about music. How do I deal with it every day? It's really hard sometimes. This period of time, the last couple of weeks, have been a lot harder than I've realized. Like, I guess with rehearsals starting, but then going to the Met and can and everything else and feeling like this music coming out and this live shows is the most important thing that's ever happened in my life. And I am hungry someone, and I used to be someone that used to go, well, this thing is my next goal. But then that needs to happen. And then there's never enough. I. I don't. I don't want to say I don't. I could die happy, but it is. Everything has led me to this point. And when I've done other things, like movies or cabaret on the West End or something, there's other pressure on other people to make it good. So there's less pressure on you because you're like, everyone needs the show to be good, so it's gonna be good. It felt like it was way more on me or I was putting it on me, because no one else is gonna be like, it needs. I mean, they are, but in the sense that I'm like, no, it's you.

[A]

It's you.

[B]

I'm. I'm doing this, and I'm choosing to do this to myself, and I'm driving myself crazy because the pressure I can put on myself is sometimes unmanageable. So, yeah, I mean, it takes a strain on my relationship on, like, you know, my incredible girlfriend has been so supportive through this. I wouldn't have been able to do this without her. This whole process. She's a musician. I was so scared about what her reaction was gonna be.

[A]

What was it?

[B]

She was so incredible about it. I cried. It was so soon after I got out of rehab. And I remember every day I prayed. I prayed to create something with this pain and to have the clarity and the confidence and the awareness and all of it to be able to make something from it. And I didn't want to name what it was, but I was like, what else would it be? Like, what else would it be? I write all this stuff. I've done music my whole life. This is not new for me. This is always something I believed I was going to do. When I was older, I just knew I couldn't do it until I had gotten to this place of belief and self love. But I remember crying to her in the shower and being like, I don't know what to do, but I have to do music. And I don't know what you're gonna say. And I think in previous relationships, I'd had a thing of whether it be competitiveness or, you know, some people may not take that well if that's their job or whatever. And especially because in so much of the sense, like, and I'm sure many people will say this, I've had a leg up. This is. I'm not starting from scratch here in terms of music. People are gonna listen to this. They might listen to it because they wanna hate it. Fair enough. But people are gonna have eyes on it more. That may be a gift, but it also might be a curse. But in that sense, I'm starting with a head star. And I never wanted to do this unless I thought it was incredible. And I hate saying that because I'm really not someone that believes in like or feels proud of myself. But I really needed it to so that if anyone brought this out, it didn't matter that it would still be good and people would love it.

[A]

Well, that's what it was. So interesting, I was reading all these different quotes. You had once said, this is your biggest fear and your greatest love. You also said you were scared to explore music for a long time because you cared too much what other people would think. Yeah. And now, obviously, we're hearing that progression of you now have gotten to a place where you're like, well, it is fucking perfect and I'm happy with it.

[B]

So you better know it's not perfect, but it's no way. Oh, trust me. There are notes I still. There's so many things I would change.

[A]

But how long did you work on this directly?

[B]

As soon as I got sober, I said to my team at the time, I have to get in the studio. And they were like, sure. But then so many people are like, you really have to want to do this. And I'm like, I get it. I really need to. I don't know what it's going to be yet. You know, I've had many iterations of doing music and being in the studio, but again, I would mold myself into whoever the producer wanted me to be. And I was like, oh, my God, I can do that. Or this. And it just never felt right. So I just started from the get go. And in that first week of sessions, every single one of those songs is on this album. That first week was so, like, the first song is the Mask, which will come out. And then, I don't know, Every Day was one of these songs. And they were really heavy. Those first group of songs were really heavy. And over that period of time, I was like, I was finding the joy in it. I was finding my voice in it. I was trusting my creative instinct more. I don't know. It's definitely not perfect, but I couldn't. I don't know. I won't want to change it now I know how my head is. And I could have worked on it forever, of course. But, yeah, it's been basically since then, and. And I think doing cabaret really helped. You know, I never. I performed live before, but really singing, no help with a mic every night, moving around and really, like, there's no hiding in that play. There's no soft, like, pop star, like, like, timbre to your voice. You are fucking belting and screaming and crying and hitting yourself. And I was like. Like, oh, I can. I can. I can be that nuts, but I can do this for myself. Like, that's rad.

[A]

I also am thinking about you sharing this first. Yes. With your girlfriend and then did you do, like, a listening party for friends and. No.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

Cara. So, like, has Margot Robbie heard it yet?

[B]

No. Yes.

[A]

What?

[B]

No. Margo's had. Some people have. Listen, I'm not. Until things are done as well.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I also, like, my girlfriend's incredible because she's fucking honest with me. And so I'd come back and be like, look how good this is. And she was like. So I was scared. I was scared. But I needed that from her because also, when she would say something, I would go, no, no. Actually, I like how it goes into, like, a weird time signature and bends and sounds like you're being slightly, like, slapped around the head with a distortion. But, yeah, it helped in that sense. I've played songs to people. I've sent people a video.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

But everyone says something so similar, which is. It's just so you. But I didn't expect what that would be.

[A]

That's exactly what I said to you.

[B]

And I remember what you said, but also. But that is literally what everyone says. And it's really. That is. As an artist, as I still find it artistic sometimes as a musician. Ha. It is one of the nicest things you can hear, because I don't.

[A]

I said that to you. I was like, I don't know, like, what should Cara Delevingne sound like? Because we know your personality. But I had no concept of how that would translate into music. And I remember pressing play and being like, huh, this is incredible. And you, like, take us on a ride. That it was so unpredictable and yet so now, in hindsight, predictable to who you are, that it all makes Makes sense. But it was so unexpected in the best way because, again, we had nothing to pull from. We had. No.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, so we have two singles. I forgotten out of my head. They'll be coming out. Then I heard that maybe you're down to give us a little sneak peek.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of another song.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just play us a little something. Yeah. Can you give us any context? Yeah. Context.

[B]

Yeah. It's about my girlfriend. It's. She is one of the most. She hates grand gestures. She couldn't. I'm definitely one of those people, like, write a song about me. Oh, my God. I would love. Like, we're very different in that sense. So I wanted to piss her off in a cute way by writing her love song. And. But it's also like, sorry, but this is a love song, you know, it's like apologizing for the fact that, like, I can't help it. I love you so much.

[A]

When did you first show it to her and what was her reaction?

[B]

My God, that's such a good point. I don't remember because it was. So the original iteration was not good enough yet. And I knew if I had to play that to her, that, like, that would be the first thing, especially if that song wasn't good enough, that she'd be like, you can't. I'm so sorry. You can't put that out. So it took me a while.

[A]

She's like, babe, this is like a disgrace to our relationship.

[B]

Like, don't do it. Like, please. I'm like, God damn it. And especially because she. The worst part is she's, like, an incredible guitarist. Like, I could listen to her play guitar and sing forever, but in this, I play guitar forever. I'm not. I'm fine. I'm fine. At best. Listen, I'm still getting better, but, like, I've decided in the show that I'm gonna, like, shred a guitar solo, which. Which, again, the pressure. When we went to school together, she's like, just the pressure of playing her any of this music or playing in front of her.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

When she is like a phenom of a guitarist, makes me want to die a little bit. Cry. Cry.

[A]

But she supports this song.

[B]

She really does.

[A]

She loves it, and that's all that matters. Okay, play us a snippet. Come on.

[B]

No, but also, I can't help it. I love her, and she's going to have to deal with it.

[A]

No, it's all been so sweet.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

We're not asking about techniques today. You know, why not?

[B]

I thought that's what I was here for. Sex education, girls, let's go.

[A]

I love you much. So I'm sorry. This is a love song. You're like, hi, babe. Sorry. I'm sorry, Cara.

[B]

It's definitely the more poppy one. But that's the thing about that is, like, all the other songs are quite heavy and about abusive relationships or whatever. And that song, I was like, oh, let's just go have fun. Yeah. Joy. Rad. Love.

[A]

Love. It's so fun. And I love that you did that for her, where you're like, you have no choice.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

I'm writing you a love song. Take it or leave it. But it's going to be in the album. Yeah. It's so incredible, and I'm so excited for you. I can feel your, like, genuine passion. I feel like you're right. Like, we've seen you do so many different things, obviously, throughout your career, but this. To see how you talked about, obviously, modeling, and you're so grateful for everything it gave you, but the amount that you are passionate about music, I think hearing your whole life story, it's like you've been kind of waiting to find you and your thing. And it feels like that is this. Which is really beautiful.

[B]

It's like a perfect little crossroads. Because also, the music industry is not easy. You have to really want to do it. And I really. I, again, kind of like writing that song. I didn't have it. I don't have a choice. Like, it is where. Where my heart is. It is where my head is. I can't. There is nothing else I can do right now. I don't know how to describe that.

[A]

And you're about to go on stage tonight.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you?

[B]

No, don't.

[A]

No.

[B]

I have to transition into, like.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

It's freaking me out. But yeah. No, it's gonna be fine.

[A]

You're gonna be fine. You're gonna be completely funny.

[B]

Because the show's called Getting my Together. And so you're just getting. But also, I was like, I'm not gonna invite anyone I know. And I've invited people, everyone that you know. I'm like.

[A]

Cause it's harder to do things in front of people, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, if you were playing that song in front of, like, a bunch of. I'm a random. Right.

[B]

I'm already nervous, though, playing that song just now. No. And I'm not even singing. I'm so here.

[A]

No, but. Because now we know each other more. But, like, if you're playing it for random. You're like, take it or leave it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The people you're friends with, you're like, don't look at me in the eyes.

[B]

No, don't. I can't. I played it to two of my friends. Two of my, like, oldest friends. Well, my oldest friend and her girlfriend. Her fiance, I should say. But it was just two of them in the studio, and the lights are pitch black and all. I couldn't even look at them. I couldn't open my eyes. Eyes. And I look over, and my friend's just sobbing, and my friend doesn't cry. And I was like, oh, my God, that makes it even worse.

[A]

What am I meant to do, Cara? God, it's. You're gonna be amazing. You're gonna be so amazing. This album is gonna be amazing. I can't wait for you. I'm so excited for you. I think so much of what you've gone through in your life, it's really inspiring to see how you are sitting here today and what you have done with every aspect of your life and your career and how you've kind of, like, molded all together to make it be your pur. This, essentially. It's really, really inspiring. And I think so many people are going to love your story. They're gonna love the music, and they're gonna love the music video. We got budget, baby.

[B]

Oh, we got budget, girl.

[A]

We got budget.

[B]

Persuasion. I had to do on that one.

[A]

No, seriously. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[B]

And I also just want to say thank you. I really love what you do and what you stand for. I think it's incredible. So to be on here and talking about this was a very big deal. I was honestly more nervous about this than I was about doing the show tonight. But I also love the fact that finally coming and talking to you now feels like the right time. And also for anyone who feels stuck in their life, like, I'm not saying sobriety is for everyone, but what it did for me, obviously, I definitely had more of a problem than most people do. But what it can do, just because this society we live in, we are so filled with so much information and pain and so aware of what's going on in the world that escaping and numbing is so easy. And so whether people have a problem or not, escaping is always a problem. So to be able to get sober with your friends, even if it is for a period of time or whatever, is never a bad thing. But it also doesn't have to be perfect. And also any sort of creative endeavor or Any endeavour that makes you uncomfortable will always allow you to grow. And if you are ever stagnant, just keep moving in that sense. So. Oh girl. Wide mouth open.

[A]

Done.

[B]

Done.

[A]

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