Dancing with the Stars: Whitney & Mark's Final Dance

Summary

Call Her Daddy — “Dancing With the Stars: Whitney & Mark’s Final Dance”

Host: Alex Cooper
Guests: Whitney Levitt & Mark Ballas
Release Date: November 27, 2025

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Overview

Alex Cooper brings a landmark, emotionally charged episode recorded live at the Avalon Theater in Hollywood, diving deep with Whitney Levitt and Mark Ballas, fan-favorite and controversial contestants eliminated from the Dancing with the Stars semifinals. The episode explores raw emotions around reality TV fame, public scrutiny, online bullying, and the behind-the-scenes truth of what it means to be at the center of a national reality TV storm. Alex leads a candid, unfiltered conversation about ambition, internet hate, female empowerment, friendship, and the human toll of viral controversy, culminating in a bittersweet “final dance” together.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Whitney’s Emotional Rollercoaster Post-Elimination (06:04–09:11)

• Whitney describes feeling both grateful and heartbroken, likening the end of DWTS to “a huge breakup.”
• She never expected to progress so far:

  "At the end of every dance, I just wanted to soak it all in... I wasn't prepared for [elimination]." (06:10, Whitney)

2. The Internet Divide: Fan Love vs. Hate (07:04–08:29)

• Alex highlights the virality of Whitney’s elimination, noting TikToks declaring "the war is over."
• Whitney admits hate doesn’t surprise her anymore due to her "villain" edit on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.
• The panel discusses how reality TV personas bleed into new projects and the persistent impact of online narratives.

3. Dancing with Reputation: Reality TV Crossover (09:13–11:10)

• Whitney recounts being cast as the villain for minor, “petty” disputes on Secret Lives, shaping the public’s expectations of her on DWTS.
• She’s honest about regretted moments, but acknowledges there’s no “rewind” in reality TV.

4. Dance Experience Controversy (12:29–14:08)

• Whitney clarifies that her “modern dance degree” is a creative, non-ballroom background, not a professional competitive dance résumé, and wasn’t actively dancing since having kids.

  “Dancing with a partner in this capacity is so new to me… Of course [my background] helped, but this was still very new to me.” (13:00, Whitney)

5. Media Backlash & Intentions on Secret Lives (15:01–17:07)

• Whitney is honest that rejoining Secret Lives was a strategic move for a DWTS audition, not just for the “sisterhood.” She owns this ambition unapologetically.

  “I was very honest, very clear. I wasn't trying to mislead or be sneaky about anything.” (15:51)

• She addresses how this bluntness was controversial and potentially alienated castmates.

6. Friendships, Alliances & On-Camera Drama (20:19–25:20)

• Whitney discusses her relationship with fellow contestant Jen Affleck—strained by overlapping ambitions and show controversy.

• She describes relief and guilt over Jen’s elimination and confirms there’s ongoing off-camera tension to be revealed on next season’s show.

• On alliances: Whitney feels closest now to Demi, Layla, and, surprisingly, Michaela:

  “I’m very, very grateful, like, where we’re at right now in our relationship.” (25:20)

7. Mark Ballas: Returning to Dance, Loss & Renewal (29:10–32:54)

• Mark shares his journey back to DWTS, including breaks due to injury, family plans, and personal loss (a miscarriage during a previous season).

  “After that one, I was like, maybe I’m done… In the moment, I made an emotional decision.” (31:37, Mark)

• He reveals his comeback is motivated by his son, wanting to perform again at a level his son can be proud of.

8. Partnership Dynamics & Online Hate (34:54–37:17)

• Whitney & Mark bond quickly but find the toughest hurdle is navigating online negativity together:

  “The hardest thing... was the hate that we got online... Having someone I loved and care about so much experience that, like, in turn hurt me.” (35:13, Whitney)

9. Dance Contest Strategy, Improvement, and Judging (36:49–41:17)

• Mark explains, contrary to online discourse, “someone with dance experience” is common every season and performance quality is innate:

  “You’re born with that. You walk in the room, you’re like, let’s get it.” (37:56, Mark)

• Mark’s coaching philosophy: always strive for improvement, regardless of how strong a contestant starts.

10. Ticket Giveaway Controversy Addressed (41:17–43:28)

• Mark and Whitney candidly discuss the misinterpreted ticket giveaway, clarify it was innocent and involved no quid pro quo for votes, and acknowledge accountability for not running it higher up the DWTS ladder.

11. Rapid-Fire Reflections: Dances, Judges, and Regrets (47:09–49:50)

• Both agree Argentine Tango was the toughest (47:13) and most injury-prone (47:36) dance.
• Whitney openly names the second Cha Cha as their biggest “robbed” moment, missing a perfect score (48:56).
• On judges: Carrie Ann was the harshest toward the end; Mark condemns online backlash toward her, emphasizing “tearing down a woman doing her job is not acceptable.” (50:20)

12. The Semifinal Elimination — What Happened? (50:50–54:32)

• Both sensed something “felt off” the night of elimination.
• While their scores were high, Whitney wonders if Secret Lives drama split public opinion (“either really loved me for that or really hated me for that” — 52:47).
• Mark reflects on the unpredictability of public voting, saying, “sometimes this shit happens.” (53:09)

13. Social Media Gamification: Fans Banding Together (54:50–56:17)

• Alex details how, uniquely this season, online communities coordinated to vote against Mark and Whitney, orchestrating a “banishment.”
• Mark and Whitney only realized the active voting loophole (“vote for everyone but them”) around week five.

14. The Human Cost of Hate — Reading the Worst Comments (57:34–60:34)

• Mark painfully reads a real hate message:

  “Are you that cheap of a cunt… you’re completely worthless, and I hope you fucking burn in hell one day.” (57:53, Mark)

• Whitney admits internalizing blame and becoming desensitized, the worst part being witnessing a friend hurt.

• Alex:

  “I'm starting to believe... we have to turn the conversation to the people watching... At what point are we all the problem?” (65:11, Alex)

15. Ambition, Double Standards & Misogyny (60:34–62:57)

• Whitney challenges the narrative that ambition is “arrogance” for women.

  “You mean if I was a man? Yeah, I think it would have been fine.” (62:10, Whitney)

16. Support Networks & The Toll on Cast Members (62:58–63:51)

• Many other contestants silently suffered from online vitriol, but Mark and Whitney agree theirs was the most intense.

17. What’s Next? Broadway, Movies, and More (68:33–69:18)

• Whitney teases her first movie role and hints at bringing a favorite dance “to life” in a new project, to be announced the following Monday.

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Notable & Memorable Quotes

• Whitney: “At the end of every dance, I just wanted to soak it all in...I wasn't prepared for [elimination].” (06:10)
• Whitney: “With seasons one and two, we can say it as it is. I’m, like, the quote unquote villain.” (09:34)
• Whitney: “I was very honest, very clear. I wasn’t trying to mislead or be sneaky about anything.” (15:51)
• Mark: “I think the hardest thing in our relationship was the hate that we got online.” (35:13)
• Mark: “You’re born with that [performance quality]. When you walk in the room, you’re like, let's get it.” (37:56)
• Whitney: “There would be a day where maybe it really got to me. And then Mark would be like, no, let's put great work out on that stage.” (56:43)
• Mark (reading hate comment): “Are you that cheap of a cunt… you’re completely worthless, and I hope you fucking burn in hell one day.” (57:53)
• Alex: “At what point are we all the problem, and we are creating this thing online that is like, it's not fun anymore, guys…” (65:11)
• Whitney: “You mean if I was a man? Yeah, I think it would have been fine.” (62:10)
• Alex: “We have to turn the conversation to the people watching... At what point are we all the problem?” (65:11)
• Mark (on Carrie Ann): “Tearing a woman down that's doing her job is not acceptable.” (50:22)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:40–02:55: Alex opens, sets the stage for the landmark live recording and the controversy's scale.
• 05:43–14:08: Whitney on emotions post-elimination, reality TV villainy, dance background, and building the narrative.
• 15:01–17:07: The Secret Lives controversy—ambition and honesty about wanting to do Dancing with the Stars.
• 21:01–25:20: Addressing drama with Jen Affleck, Mom Talk alliances, and friendship shifts.
• 29:10–32:54: Mark’s raw, personal reasons for returning to DWTS, including family and injury.
• 35:13–36:43: How partnership and handling hate became a central challenge.
• 41:17–43:28: Ticket giveaway controversy—an honest account and accountability.
• 47:09–49:50: Rapid-fire insights—hardest/most proud dances, judging, and missed perfect scores.
• 50:50–54:32: The night of elimination—sensing something was “off” and post-Secret Lives blowback.
• 54:50–56:43: Alex and Mark discuss strategic “anti-voting” online through coordinated campaigns.
• 57:34–60:48: The toll of hate—reading real hateful messages.
• 62:10–62:57: Conversation about ambition, misogyny, and double standards in reality television.
• 68:33–69:18: Whitney teases new projects in movies and dance.

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Tone and Atmosphere

• Honest, vulnerable, and often raw: Guests and host openly discuss pain, backlash, and emotional exhaustion.
• Supportive and empowering: The tone consistently affirms vulnerability and ambition, especially around female confidence and goals.
• Candid and unfiltered: The episode surfaces “off-camera” truths, including the emotional aftermath of social media hate.
• Humorous and loving in moments: Banter and camaraderie, particularly in the Mark & Whitney dynamic and the rapid-fire games, lighter the mood.
• Reflective and hopeful at conclusion: They aim to spark a conversation about internet culture and hope for positive change.

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Final Noteworthy Moment

The Episode’s Message:
Both the host and guests plead for a cultural reset in how viewers engage with reality TV—reminding listeners of the humanity behind the screen and calling for a new “domino effect” of kindness.

Whitney’s closing words:

“Maybe strive to be the person to be the domino effect to not be the hate online... Let's create the other domino effect.” (66:48)

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Listen if you want:

• A candid, behind-the-scenes account of reality TV’s emotional toll
• Insight into DWTS, voting controversy, and internet mob dynamics
• Thoughtful reflections on ambition, misogyny, and friendship
• Direct exploration of how virality and hate shape real people—sometimes with devastating effect

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End Summary

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

What is up, Daddy gang?

[A]

It is your founding father, Alex Cooper.

[B]

With Call Her Daddy. Welcome to a special edition of Call Her Daddy. We are doing something I have never done in the history of this show. We're currently at the Avalon Theater in Hollywood, California, and tonight, I have so many surprises in store for you. This past week, one of the biggest conversations in America has been about Whitney and Mark's elimination from Dancing with the Stars in the semifinals. After they were sent home, I received thousands of messages demanding I sit down and I interview them. So I partnered with ABC to make all this happen, and we have put together a very, very, very exciting show for all of you. So grab your popcorn, maybe get a little bit of wine, maybe some tequila, and get ready because we're about to get into it.

[A]

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[B]

Whitney Levitt, welcome to call Her Daddy.

[C]

This is crazy.

[B]

I want to preface to everyone tuning in tonight that we are currently sitting in this interview and the Dancing with the Stars finale has yet to happen. So we do not know who the winners are, and we wish all of the finalists the best of luck. Yes. But, Whitney.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm here with you tonight.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can you talk to me about how you have been doing since getting eliminated?

[C]

I. I feel a roller coaster of emotions. I feel grateful, but I also feel sad. Like, something that I think is really important for any fan of Dancing with the Stars to understand is you are with these people every single day, and you're doing really vulnerable things like dancing, learning new moves, and there's a camera around you 24 7, and then it just stops. It just ends. And so it felt like a huge breakup for me. And to be honest, I didn't even think I was going to make it that far in the show. So every. At the end of every dance, I just wanted to soak it all in, enjoy every single moment, because I didn't know when it was going to be my last. But then when it was, it was like, oh, wait, like, I wasn't. I wasn't prepared for that.

[B]

America was really divided about you as a contestant, kind of. From day one.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And when you did get eliminated, people were either outraged.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Or they were so thrilled.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

They. No, there were literally TikToks and videos being made, people saying, the war is over. So how did it feel to see that many people celebrating you going home?

[C]

I mean, I shouldn't say it's not a good thing, but I am used to it. I am used to the hate. And so with season one and season two of Secret Lives and Mormon Wives being out, like, I just didn't think I was gonna make it that far in Dancing with the Stars because I already knew, like, the Persona that I had in the. So I didn't think people were going to really vote for me.

[B]

All of this has, I genuinely believe, created a larger discourse about women, online, hate, bullying, reality television. And we're going to get into all of that tonight. But first, I kind of just want to go back to, like, when did you first decide that you really wanted to go on Dancing with the Stars and when this was, like, an actual goal of yours.

[C]

I've always been A fan of the show, it, like, brought me so much joy. I love dancing. Dancing has always been a part of my life. I always say, like, I feel most like myself when I'm dancing. And so never in a million years did I ever think I'd be casted on it. Like, it just felt like an unobtainable dream and, like, a delusional idea I had in my mind. So then once that chance presented itself to me, like, I wanted to go after it.

[B]

The moment you realize you get Dancing with the Stars, what did that moment mean to you?

[C]

Well, when I first found out, they called Jen's name first, so it was, like, immediate. Like, oh, damn it. But then they called my name, and I was like, well, like, it's like the heart went down and then it shot right back up. Yeah, I just. I immediately looked at Connor, ran, and, like, literally jumped on him just because I just. I just couldn't believe it. Like, it just. It didn't feel real.

[A]

So I want you to kind of.

[B]

Go back because you said I was worried because season one and two of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives was already out. So to anyone that lives under a rock, yes, you are on another reality show.

[D]

Right.

[B]

And can you talk to me a little bit more about how you had concerns that your reputation from that one reality show would bleed into how Dancing with the Stars fans would feel about you?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, listen, I. I knew going into reality tv, I wasn't gonna control the narrative. Of course I'd love for you to see all the happy days and all the positive things and all the great things that I say and do, but I knew going into that, that. That just doesn't come with the territory. With seasons one and two, we can say it as it is. I'm like, the quote unquote villain. And I just felt like in the media, like, the perspective that I had out there, like, that's just who I was. And so I just felt like that was gonna carry with me onto Dancing with the Stars.

[B]

And for anyone who is not maybe fully clued in to Secret Lives, can you just explain a little bit of why you were painted as the villain in season one and two?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I'm a very. Like, I wear my emotions on my sleeve. I'm very open, and sometimes that bites me in the ass. And in season one and season two, like, sure, there were decisions that I made that I wasn't happy about, but they were very petty things, like not showing up to an. An event to support a friend, unfollowing people. It was very. Just very petty things. And then with that and with, like, being in this reality world, like, just. I think people love giving someone that title, and that title was given to me.

[B]

Would you do anything differently when it comes to season one and two? When you look back?

[C]

I mean, yeah, of course. I'd look back and I'd be like, well, I probably shouldn't have said that. I probably shouldn't have done that.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

Life would be a lot easier if we could just be like, you know what? Let me just push the rewind button and let me get a redo on that one. That would be incredible. But that's just not what happened.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Dancing with the Stars. Take me to the first few weeks. How do you think the fans felt about you?

[C]

I just wasn't sure. Like, we don't see the votes, Like, I don't know, like, where I stand every single Tuesday. But, I mean, Mark will even tell you, like, the first Tuesday, like, I was like, man, like, I just really want to enjoy this one dance because.

[B]

I might be going home tonight.

[C]

But that's how I felt every single Tuesday. Like, I just. I wanted to soak up every single dance because I just didn't know when it was going to end.

[B]

So as you start to kind of go through this experience, what were you in the initial days loving the most?

[C]

Oh, the beginning. I loved the beginning because actually, sorry. Yes. To answer your previous question, in the beginning, it was lots of love, and I was like, oh, my God. Like, I'm not used to this. Like, this is so crazy. Like, Mark is such a wonderful person. Like, I know he. Like, he's a fan favorite on the show. Like, everybody loves him. And so I felt that love, and it was exciting. And we were learning these dances, and it was just like, yeah, I was experiencing everything for the first time.

[B]

Some early criticism that you received was around your previous dance experience.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Can you just clarify for all of us what is exactly your previous dance experience?

[C]

Whitney, I. So I think what people were so hung up on is my modern dance degree. I got that at Brigham Young University. That's a Mormon college. Very conservative. Modern is, like, lots of shape. It's very artsy. Fartsy is the best way that I can. Can describe it. But as far as, like. Like, that's as. That's as far as it went. Like, I. Dancing with a partner in this capacity is, like, so new to me, so different. Of course, that background helped me learning different techniques, but this was still very new to me.

[B]

Yeah. And before going on this show, how much were you actively keeping up with dance?

[C]

Well, I. At the time when I had found out, my baby was six months old. So after I had kids, I wasn't dancing. Like, I wasn't dancing rigorously because I went to college and then I just started having babies. I have three kids. I have a six year old, a four year old, and my baby just turned one. So, yeah, I went to college, I started a family and I wasn't dancing, of course. I was making like tiktoks and that was like my outlet. And then I found out and I was like, hey, like, it's go time.

[B]

So you weren't actively dancing?

[C]

No, I wasn't.

[B]

Professionally, yeah.

[C]

Like, I'd like go to class maybe every once in a while, but no, I wasn't actively dancing.

[B]

Regardless, you quickly became a front runner out of the gate. You and Mark were getting some of the highest scores the entire season. When do you feel the shift?

[C]

I feel like the shift happened after week five. I feel like that's when it happened. And it was like there was a moment where Mark and I were out of sync for like a little section in one of our dances.

[B]

And then.

[C]

I don't know, there was like this uproar. It's like ra like, see, like she isn't good or da da da, da da. Like. And then it just like exploded and then it just went south.

[B]

So that's one shift. And then there's the obvious shift. A week before the semifinals, season three of the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives airs.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And the online discourse completely explodes about you. Was there anything that you were aware of and nervous for fans to see that was going to come out?

[C]

I mean, I was very clear why I came back that season was very candid and I just, I wasn't sure how people were going to take it. And it felt like it was 50, 50. Like you either had respect for it or you either were like, oh, my gosh.

[B]

Okay, so let's talk about that. The backlash that really was, I feel like the front runner of the core of why people first got so upset when the season came out was you revealed that the only reason that you returned to Secret Lives was because you wanted to get cast on Dancing with the Stars. Why do you think that was so controversial?

[C]

At least from what I've seen. I think people thought that I was like exploiting a friend group, but that wasn't at all. I mean, there's even a scene that I watched. There's a scene of Me and Taylor were getting glammed for something. I don't. Oh, it was for pr. We were getting glammed for pr and she's asking me, and she's like, well, the women only think that you're back for. To audition for a chance to be on Dancing with the Stars. And I was like, that's exactly right. Like, that's exactly why I'm back. Like, I was very honest, very clear. Like, I wasn't trying to mislead or be sneaky about anything. Like, I was very clear about my intentions coming back.

[B]

Clearly, they felt like that was off putting. Right? They're like, you're not here for the sisterhood. You're here to make money. What is your response to that?

[C]

Well, there's history with that because after season one and then filming season two, there was an effort to rebuild those friendships, and it didn't feel reciprocated. So I was just trying to figure out how to navigate that. Like, okay, like, where am I going now in this experience? Because it doesn't feel like I am wanted in this experience. And so going back with season three, I just had a different mindset. And I was honest about the mindset.

[A]

Well, which I think a lot of people respect it.

[B]

They're like, would you rather you lie and you're, like, completely fake. No, you're just, like, being real, and you're being like, this is exactly why I'm here. Take it or leave it. You said, quote, you were treating secret lives like a business opportunity is what you're saying. How do you think that impacted your relationship with the rest of Mom Talk? Well.

[C]

Going back the beginning days of Mom Talk, I fell in love with Mom Talk because I love the camaraderie. I know it's so cheesy. I know they're like cheesy little tiktoks. But that was an outlet for me because I love the camaraderie of entertainment. Like, it takes, like, even right now, like, so many people. The lighting, the filming, the microphones, like, the audio, like, takes so much to create even what we're creating right now. And, like, I have so much respect for that and passion for it. And I know it was so cheesy, but I loved that about Mom Talk. I was, like, the camaraderie of us getting together and, like, making something entertaining for somebody to watch at home. Like, I loved that. And then it just shifted. It just wasn't that for me anymore. And so I didn't know how to navigate that. And I didn't Even know how the other woman felt about it.

[D]

So.

[C]

So I would just tell myself, okay, well, let me just be honest about my intentions, because I don't know where we stand. It doesn't feel like you want me here, so here's my intentions of being here.

[B]

Do you think that your approach to the sisterhood is completely different than all of the other women?

[C]

I'm not sure, because I would hope that we were all wanting more from being so vulnerable and sharing our lives to the world.

[B]

Yes, it may have started as one thing, but I don't know any reality show that doesn't transform in some capacity.

[C]

Well, and it already has for a lot of the women. Like, Macy has her book, Taylor's the Bachelorette. Like, she was just on here announcing that, like, there's so many things even now happening for all of the women, and I would hope that for all of us that we could use this experience to then venture out to other things that we were wanting.

[B]

Yeah. Do you think you got a fair edit this season on Secret Lives of season three?

[A]

I do.

[C]

I really do. I think, you know, and. And going back, like, I. I wanted to be honest, I wanted to be real. And I. And I feel like I was.

[B]

Is there anything with regard to this new season that you want to set the record straight on?

[C]

I mean, yeah, I guess I'll double down on that. Like, like when the producers called me because I had stepped away from the experience, like when they called me and they were like, hey, you come back and film, you will have a chance to audition to be on Dancing with the Stars. And I said, fuck, yeah, I will.

[B]

Be back for that. Yeah, because it's a job at the end of the day.

[C]

Yes, it is. Right. And like, I understand that there's more. There is relationship there in the group. Um, so I could totally understand why it was off putting for some of the women. But that's just where we were at the time. I mean, obviously now friendships are different now. Like, we've rebuilt, we're rebuilding those right now. But at the time, it wasn't that.

[B]

You were not the only woman, like you mentioned earlier from Secret Lives who was on Dancing with the Stars this season. Jen Affleck was also a part of the show. How did you feel that you were both cast?

[C]

We actually didn't see each other a lot. Like, we. Our rehearsal schedules didn't really match up. I saw her on show days, I saw her on blocking sometimes. And yeah, I mean, I'm sure that she enjoyed this experience just as much.

[B]

As I did, Jen said, quote, the minute there's an opportunity, you say you've always wanted it and implied that you only wanted to audition for Dancing with the Stars because she did. What is your response to that?

[C]

Oh, that I only want to audition because she did.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, that's wild. I always wanted to be a part of this show. I think that everybody can have the same dream, everyone can have the same goal, and we just happen to have the same dream and the same goal, and I'm so happy that we both got to do that.

[B]

Okay, well, we need to talk about her elimination. Yeah. Because this was one of, again, these moments where there are slow mo videos of you reacting to when Jen gets eliminated. And we have basically a moment where it looks like you're smirking and then you cover your mouth, like, describe what was going through your head and what actually happened.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I thought I was getting eliminated every Tuesday. Every single Tuesday. I was, like, mentally preparing myself. So in that moment, I felt two emotions. Like, it was one where it was like, oh, my God, they didn't call my name, but, oh, my God, now my friend's going home. Like, two emotions in that moment, and I think, you know, it's like, it's a relief, and then it's like, oh, wait, but now somebody's going home, and now is leaving this experience.

[B]

So when you went to smile, that feeling was what I like.

[C]

It's funny. Like, I don't remember smiling, but if anything, it was relief. Like, oh, they didn't call my name. Like, I get to do this one more week, but, oh, now somebody has to go home.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I hate that they don't get experienced this anymore.

[B]

And so there was no excitement that Jen was getting eliminated?

[C]

Absolutely not.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

No. No excitement whatsoever. There's never excitement when anyone gets eliminated, but there's definitely relief. Like, when they don't call your name in that moment. You're like, I get to do this one more week. But then we all go and we. You know, I even experienced everybody comes and they hug me. Like, of course they were all relieved that they all made it to the final and then it wasn't them. But then they're also sad because somebody has to go home.

[B]

Jen went on TikTok Live after her elimination and said, quote, I would be rooting for a former mom talk person, but we won't be getting into that. How does that make you feel? That she's essentially coming out and saying, I'm not gonna vote for Whitney.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I'm not gonna Root for her.

[C]

I mean, this is the thing. Jen understands what it's like being in the public eye, being in the reality space, getting the hate. Like, she's experienced it. So, I mean, it sucked. It didn't feel great that she fed into that, that she decided to go on alive and say, yeah, I'm not gonna vote for her. I mean, she could have just said who she was voting for. She didn't need to say who she wasn't voting for. And then to go and press. Like, there's definitely more story there.

[B]

But can you just help us understand a little bit more, though? Like, what is going on between you and Jen and what is your current relationship?

[C]

Um, the relationship's not great. I don't really even know if there is one right now. Um, there was a lot that happened while we were doing Dancing with the Stars. We were also filming Secret Lives during the time. So I know, like, the audience is going to be able to see that story when that comes out next year.

[B]

Got it. So we're going to probably see that on season four. And that's something you can't fully talk about.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So there is something going on with Jen. We just can't fully talk about it yet.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And when we see that story, are you looking forward to that story coming out and more clarity, or are you nervous about it?

[C]

Both, because I just think feelings were hurt and on both sides and there wasn't a mutual understanding. But I can tell you what I didn't do. I didn't go online and say, I'm not supporting you and I'm not rooting for you. Yeah. It just sucked.

[B]

What terms are you on with the rest of mom talk?

[C]

Great.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Everyone's great. Like, there's so much support while I was doing Dancing with the Stars. Like, so much love. So much. Like, even after I got eliminated, everyone texting me, checking in on me, like, great. Every. I'm. I'm loving where the group's at right now.

[B]

I'm loving it. You're like, thank God. Who would you say you're closest to right now?

[C]

The women that I'm closest to right now in the group are Demi, Layla, and, surprisingly, Michaela, which I don't think.

[B]

Anyone would have ever thought in million years.

[C]

I definitely would have, but I'm very, very grateful. Like, where we're at right now in our relationship. Yeah.

[B]

We have touched on some of the Secret Lives drama and how it affected this season of Dancing with the Star, but there were so many more moments that you went through the good, the bad, the ugly. But you went through it with someone.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

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[A]

Mark.

[B]

Welcome to call her daddy.

[D]

Thank you so much for having me.

[B]

Thank you for joining us. Since getting eliminated. How are you doing?

[D]

I think, you know, I think that day we kind of had a gut feeling. To be honest, I think that week had gone pretty well. I feel like the dances came together for semi final a little easier than typically. But I don't know about.

[C]

It was like time for the live show and like something just fell off.

[D]

Time for the live show and we had just said to each other before we went, let's just go out, let's, let's enjoy ourselves. Let's have fun. Go for it. Like, let your hair down. Enjoy this. Because we just had a feeling.

[B]

We're going to circle back because I want to get to the elimination but first we need to go back to the beginning of your guys beautiful partnership. Can you describe what built this beautiful partnership? Because it feels like you're going to have a lasting friendship, right?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

You're both like, no, we absolutely hate each other. Everyone's speculating right now because you guys have been kind of quiet that they're like doing.

[D]

I've seen like these tick tocks like Whitney and Mark, they're not speaking. They're mad because honestly, like after we. I haven't, I kind of took a social media break. Good for you. And I do that, to be honest. Like I'm not, not the best at it. But yeah. So I, after the elimination, I kind of just like got off and like I, I have a wife and a son and I wanted to spend some time with them. And then, and then I called and I was like. And now I'm like, now I gotta make this in three days.

[B]

I'm gonna rent. You're like, wait, I'm excited, Alex. But also you. Okay, back up. Yeah. Whitney.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Going into the show, did you have a certain pro in mind that you would hope that you would get paired up with?

[C]

I mean, I didn't even know that Mark was coming back.

[B]

I love how you just reminded all of us. We all thought maybe you retired. Right. You kind of announced.

[D]

I did.

[B]

That you were retiring. How did you decide to come back?

[D]

This is a loaded question, Mark.

[B]

I'm ready.

[D]

I'll try and give it to you quick. So I had taken a break from the show before my last season in 31 where I danced with Charli d'. Amelio. Obviously there was a global pandemic so everyone was taking a break. I had also, you know, I went to musical theater college. I was on Broadway. I Was in a couple of other shows. My wife and I were trying to start a family, and there's just, like, other things at play. And I also, like, you know, there is this narrative, like, Mark only comes back when he does. I did 19 seasons in a row. That's a lot. And I. Over that time, I had taken on some injuries. Knees, back, necks, wrists. Like, all of it. It all costs. I was getting old, and I'm 40 next year. You know, I'm gonna turn 40 next year. So when I found, like, love my relationship with Rob Mills, Dina Katz forever, and Conrad Green, who is our producer at the moment, he had called me for season 31 and said, would you ever be interested? And I was like, well, are you on the show? He's like, yeah, I'm coming back too. And I was like, oh, well, let me think about it. And then, you know, I was like, why not? Like, why not? Why not? So we. We ended up doing season 31. I didn't have much time to get into shape for it. My partner ended up being Charli d'. Amelio. Had no idea going into that that worked out. We had a wonderful season together. But I'm not gonna lie. Like, my wife will tell you the amount of Epsom salt baths, and I had some pretty bad injuries, and my lower back had been really bothering me for a while. And actually, during that season, my wife went through. We found out my wife was pregnant, and we ended up losing our baby before the semifinal. So I had to leave. Like, her having, you know, the. The. The appointment to have the baby removed, to come dance for the semi final and then go on. And I was. That had kind of, like, just taken it out of me, and I just had body injuries that had really, really affected me. And after that one, I was like, maybe I'm. Maybe I'm done. I feel like in the moment, I had made an emotional decision. Like I said, I announced it at the tour, like, this might be the last one, blah, blah, blah. And then fast forward and a happier note. My wife ends up getting pregnant. We have our son Banksy now. And when he was born, I was like, no, I'm not gonna be dad. Who's like, I used to be a dancer, and I can't play soccer or throw a baseball, you know? So, like, I was really diligent about getting in shape, pt, working hard, getting into it. And then my body started feeling good again. Like, it will never be perfect again. But I was feeling like I could still like, oh, this feels like how it Used to this could maybe, you know, so then I was entertaining the idea of coming back, and I reached out to people and said, I think I got a couple more in the tank. And here we are.

[B]

You know, thank you for sharing that, because I think it just adds color to. We do not know what anyone is going through during these experiences. And to hear and I listen. I've seen it all over line of everyone being like, Mark only comes back when he knows he's going to get a good partner.

[D]

I am not privy to the cast. Like, which one do you want? You know what I mean? The show is the show. It keeps it moving. And, you know, I've been happy to be a part of it for so long. It's been a big part of my life. It's given me so many amazing opportunities, and I've had partners of all levels.

[B]

So what was your reaction when you found out your partner was Whitney?

[D]

I mean, and we talk. We've talked about this many times. Like, I. I'd never seen the show before. I had. No, again, like, I wasn't really on. Like, I'm on social media, but I'm.

[B]

Not, you know, like, Mark, you're not on Mom Talk.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

What the hell?

[D]

I mean, I am now. I know the moves now, but, you know, I. I was just excited to. To be back and to be out there with my fellow pros and, like, you know, just ready for the experience again. I've done this so many times that, like, let's go. Bring it on. Like, I've. Again, like, I've had partners at all different levels. So I was. I was. Once I met her, we kind of hit it off pretty. Pretty. We had fun. And, like, we laugh a lot. We roast each other all day.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Which is fun for me. I love the banter, you know.

[B]

Whitney. Yeah. How would you describe Mark as a coach? You can let it rip now because.

[C]

Mark is so good at showing you what you can do. And there'd be so many times where I'm like, there's just no way. Like, I don't. What are you talking about? But he pushes you. He's gonna push you. He's gonna be hard on you because he believes that you can do that. And then I'll do it. And then I'd be like, well, yeah.

[B]

Fuck, yeah.

[C]

You know, And I needed that.

[B]

What is the biggest challenge that the two of you had to overcome in the early days to really make this partnership work?

[C]

We vibed right away. Like, we just, like, hit it off. Like, I just Think sometimes people just naturally connect and we naturally connected. But I actually feel like the hardest thing in our relationship was the hate that we got online.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, I had experienced it, but having someone that I loved and care about so much, like, experience that, like, in turn hurt me. And then we experienced it together. That was probably the hardest part.

[A]

Can we talk about that, though?

[B]

Because it's like, take me to week one. Because I'm assuming that week one was not completely clear clouded by this hatred yet. Because it grew and it grew and it grew.

[D]

Fun.

[B]

What was week one like? And how were you guys nervous? Did you feel prepared?

[D]

Well, I also want to preface this as well, like, and I know kind of mentioned this before, like, a big part of me wanting to do this season, too, is that my son is old enough to understand, you know, and it's like, I'm again, I'm turning 40 next year. I don't know how much longer I can, like, do this at the level where I can watch myself back and be like, I can still do it. So I was really excited for my son to, like, watch it and be like, that's my dad. You know what I mean? Even though he's only two, but he can still, like, when we watch the dances back, he points at the screen, he's like, daddy. You know what I mean? So I was, like, super excited for that. So, yeah, the first four weeks, I felt like we're a blast. Like, we did that first tango to golden and then it was the play that funky music. Cha cha. Yeah.

[C]

That's why I told Alex, too. I said, like, we. Week five was when.

[D]

Yeah, it was around.

[B]

So you were on a high at first. You're getting some of the highest scores.

[A]

You're.

[B]

You're vibing together. I did ask Whitney about this earlier, and I want to get your take. Mark, though, one of the things that people really focused on with Whitney was her dance background. Yeah. And there was a lot of conversation whether or not she had an unfair advantage. What is your take?

[D]

My take is that. Is that the show again? We're in season 34, and I feel like when you look at the graph of the people, new fans watching it, it is off the scale. So there are a lot of people watching for the first time. I can tell you from someone who's been a part of the show since season five that I don't think you could tell me one season where there hasn't been someone with dance experience. Like, when you're casting one of these shows, it's Called Dancing with the stars. You're picking people that are known from their fields and mostly all derived from the entertainment industry or they're an athlete or they're on television. And I would say if you're trying to pick 12 to 14 celebrities in the entertainment industry, someone's gonna have dance experience. You know, And I can tell you from season two, Mario Lopez, Sabrina Bryan, my first partner, Nicole scherzing or Jordan Fisher. You know, we've had ice skaters. We've had Olympic gymnasts, Charli d', Amelio, Jojo Siwa, Jennifer Grey. This season, we have a few people also with dance experience. The thing I think that for Whitney, specifically, if we're talking about in this context, that I think for people was like, oh, wow. Like, it's really powerful, is that she is a dynamic performer, and that's something that I can't teach. You're born with that you're born with. When you walk in the room, you're like, let's get it. Like, you know what I mean? You can develop it over time, and you'll see there's some great dancers whose technique is just like, whoa. And then you have some dancers whose performance quality is like, whoa. And it's like, the. The goal is to try and bridge the two together, and that takes time. Like, a fine example is that your first week two cha cha to play that funky music compared to your prince night cha cha. Like, to a coach or someone that's in this field, like, it's night and day, but the performance quality is the same.

[B]

Still there. You know, let's talk about improvement, because this was one of the biggest conversations online as to why people should still be there, why they shouldn't be there. Fans, understandably, are looking for the stars to improve as the show goes on with their coach. But this season, it felt like Whitney was penalized because she started off very strong. Right, Mark, what is your take on this again?

[D]

My. My take on the improvement thing is like, to me as a coach, this is not a biased thing. She will tell you in rehearsal. I am relentless in the pursuit of making things get better. Even today, when we were rehearsing for this, what was we talking about? Pivoting your feet. And I was like, it's week 11. There's things that we're constantly, always trying to iron in. And this is for all the professionals. The professionals on our show do such a fabulous job at taking anyone at their level and improving them. Now when someone has a little bit less experience, the improvement can look like this Right. But if we look at the cha cha one to chacha two, it's night and days between leg action, footwork, tightness, and turns. Even as your partner, like, sometimes I felt like I would have to, like, hone you in a little bit out there on the floor. If we look at her, Vinnie's Wall street frame, like the ballroom frame compared to, like, your tango week one, it's like, huge improvements there.

[B]

You know, you're coming out so strong. I'm curious if you think that this is going to affect how contestants strategize moving forward.

[D]

Here's what I'll say. I'm sure I can't speak for other people's strategy or how they approach the competition. I can only speak from experience, from mine. And. And we talked about this at the beginning. My strategy is always, do your fucking best. Come out swinging. Do the best you can. Because the reality is, I'm gonna tell you right now, this is not the first time that someone who is an amazing, incredible, dynamic performer has been eliminated early. It happened to me in season five with Sabrina Bryant, but this is the first time I feel like it's happened with this new TikTok and Instagram hype. Like, this has been happening on Dancing with the Stars. So to underserve yourself, to underserve your performance for strategy, I just don't think is the move. Like, I feel like if you can do the dance and you feel good, like, do your best. You just don't know because you don't know if you're getting the votes, you know?

[B]

Great, great advice. A controversy that both of you experienced this season was around the ticket giveaway. We have to address it. How do you think this affected your guys standing on the show? Who's taking it?

[D]

I'll take it.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Thanks, Mark.

[D]

You're like, you go, I'm gonna paint this picture for you, right? When this came up, I promise you it was super innocent.

[C]

It was just, like, so casual.

[D]

So casual. We had talked to teams about it. Hey, we wanna do a fun giveaway. Other people had done giveaways, but there's context to it, right? I'll tell you when. When I was. When we talked about it, I was in the middle of putting three dances together. It was. What week was it? It was the. The marathon. It was the marathon week. So your dance was Brainstor, the Halloween dance, and this hustle and the Lindy Hop. Right. So all my energy was into that, and we were like, hey, could we do something fun? Give away for fans? Yeah, let's do it. Come on.

[B]

Sure.

[D]

Fine. Probably in hindsight, should have checked. Like, in this context, there was only two tickets to give away. We've given away tickets to fans lots of times. The. There was no. There was no. Prove to us you're voting for us. I think Whitney articulated even in the video, like, even if you're not voting for us, this is an experience for everyone. It's just meant to be a bit of fun. It was two tickets. Like, when it all got that backlash crazy, I was like, you know what? Guys like me and my wife just won't vote for me and it'll cancel us up.

[B]

What do you think really got misconstrued about that entire situation? Just, like, the gravity of it and how much effect it would have.

[D]

I'm actually not sure. And probably on me a little bit. After so many seasons, I probably should have ran it up the flagship and be like, hey, is it cool to do this? But I just didn't think, well, and.

[C]

Same for me, too.

[D]

We just had so much on our plate.

[C]

Yeah, we were just excited to do it, but it wasn't our tickets to give away.

[D]

Yeah. And it was like, posted a dumb photo of me in the comments and we'll pick someone at random. And I probably should have checked. So I'll take accountability for that because I've been on the show for so long, but in the moment. Three dances, five days to do it. I just, just.

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[B]

I want to do a couple rapid fire moments. Just answer whatever comes to your mind. Okay.

[D]

At the same time or one at a time?

[B]

Both of you answer. Okay. What was the hardest dance to learn?

[C]

RDT Tango.

[D]

I knew you were gonna say.

[B]

What would you say?

[D]

You probably that one. Argentine tango.

[B]

What dance are you the most proud of?

[D]

Argentine tango and Argentine tango and the Hamilton Foxtrot. I love that dance. But I also love the dance we did to the Green Day song. That was super cool.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

What's a dance move that almost got you injured in rehearsal?

[D]

The Argentine tango ending lift.

[C]

I'm telling you right now, that Argentine tango, at least my knees, like, just bruises, because when you do those little flickity dicketies, like, you run into each other. And so the amount of bruises I had all my legs.

[D]

The trick at the end, you should, like, roll clip. Now, like, she does this, like, helicopter thing, and then her leg actually wraps around my knee, and I go to the knee. I wore two knee pads.

[B]

Or, like, I'm not going down because of the.

[D]

Speed it comes at. Like, it's. You know, it's a. It was a. I was very nervous all day. I was. Even when my wife. My wife comes to the show and she hangs out with me before a little bit, and she's like, how you doing? I was like, this one.

[C]

One's.

[D]

This one's high risk.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So when we hit that final pose, I was like, yes. Yeah.

[C]

I started laughing.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

What dance do you think the judges robbed you on? This is fun. This is fun. This is fun.

[D]

We're not.

[B]

It's not petty. I'm forcing them to answer it. No one come for us.

[C]

You want me to ask?

[D]

No, I'm not saying. I did not. I did not.

[B]

Whitney, say it. Swing the sentence.

[C]

Okay, I'm gonna say it.

[D]

Go on. Whatever.

[B]

You guys are so scarred from the Internet, like, hating you that you're like, nothing. It was perfect.

[C]

Okay, ask me again and I'll say it.

[B]

Say it.

[C]

Okay. I feel like the second time we did the cha cha, when we did our last dance, like, I was, like, so honed in on that one. Like, I thought for sure we were gonna get a perfect score. So that one for me, I was a bit bummed that we get a perfect score on that one.

[B]

Okay. We'll mark you self dancer.

[D]

I love it. I mean, you know, I would probably. Dang. Yeah.

[C]

Would you agree with Me on the cha Cha.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I think. You know what? It. Okay, I'll say this. I'll say this because we got dropped to a 9 on that dance. And 9, 10, 10 is a great score, by the way. Let's just get that out. Yes.

[B]

Like, we love the judges, but, like, it was the.

[D]

I think the comment of, like, it was focusing too much on the 10 technique. And I was like, okay, like, let me go back as a. As a coach. That's my job. Let me go back. And when I watch it back, she looks. She was having the time of her life. That face was, like, lit up. So interesting.

[B]

No, that's a good answer. Who was the harshest judge?

[C]

Ooh.

[B]

And we're not putting this judge down. Just like. No, I mean, the Simon Cowell of, like, who is the person you're like, oh, like, I need them to. I want them to.

[C]

Mine. Mine changed. Mine changed. In the beginning, I felt like it was Derek, and then towards the end, for me, it felt like it was Carrie Anne.

[B]

What is your take, Mark, on all of the backlash that Carrie Ann did receive this past season? People commenting on her looks or like, people commenting on.

[D]

Well, that's. That's. I. I hate. I hate that.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Because Carrie Ann is a lovely person and, you know, I've known her a very long time and, like, get going. Getting that, like, again, this is a fun dance competition show. It's meant to bring joy, it's meant to bring happiness, and she's been employed to judge and give her critiques and give her opinion and. And obviously, again, taste is not a debatable subject, and not everyone's going to agree with what she has to say, but I feel like tearing, you know, a woman down that's doing her job is not acceptable.

[B]

We now need to get to the elimination.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

You both said you felt it coming. Was it because you didn't feel as good about your dance? Were you in your heads about social media?

[C]

No, like, I. I felt our dances were solid. Like, that. I was excited being these waltz that we did. Like, that was one of my of my favorite dances that we've done. Like, I was so excited to perform that dance. It was just. It just felt off. Like something just. It didn't feel like the other Tuesdays that we had had, like, it just.

[A]

Felt off for me.

[D]

One thing I'll tell you is, like, I'm a. I'm an over rehearser. I like to rehearse to the point where it's just so ingrained in your Body. I hate leaving things a chance. Might be old school, but that's how I was raised. When I was dancing. It's just. You rehearse it, rehearse it, rehearse it so you don't have to think. And in between our first dance and second one, we were over at the other side running it through, and. And you got. I could. You were just emotional, and, like, I could tell that you felt something. I kind of had to go into football coach mode at that point where I was just like, you can do that. Get it together, you know, like, backstage. Because I was starting to get worried that she's gonna go out there and black out now.

[B]

But, you guys, we would be remiss to not acknowledge the fact that Secret Lives came out the week before. The Internet is absolutely tearing you apart. Like, even if you were trying to put it to the back of your mind, how could it not be, like, somewhat in your body where you're going home, you're looking at your phone. You know what I mean?

[C]

And I think, too, like, when we were on the backstage rehearsing it endlessly, I had felt like that this was our last dance, which in turn, like, made it a little bit more emotional.

[B]

Interesting. Well, you guys scored eight, a 58 out of 60 for your two performances, but America still sent you home, which was one of the highest scores that night. Why do you ultimately think that you were eliminated?

[D]

Oh, I don't know. I. I like.

[C]

You mean, like, what led us, like, not getting the votes, you think? I don't know. I mean, I would. If I was speculating, I would say, yeah, maybe Secret Lives, because it was such a huge divide. Like, you either either really loved me for that or you really hated me for that. So maybe it swayed some people. Like, I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What do you think?

[D]

I've just done this for so long, like, on dancing, like, it's. I, I. I couldn't pinpoint it, and I would hate to say it was Secret Lives or it was this, because, you know, Secret Lives aside. Again, I'm not too privy to all the stuff on that, but this show has had its fan base for 20 years. The show has been going now, like, we just had the 20th birthday for the show, you know, and we've had loyal fans that have been with us for a very long time, and sometimes this shit happens, you know? And it's like, I think with such a stacked cast and really great talent. Great talent all around, you get to the point where we don't. We don't know the votes, like Whitney said earlier. But, like, I'm assuming, like, like, I'm assuming it's going like this. Like, one week, someone might just have a number that really moves somebody. And maybe some weeks, someone who's been voting one way will be like, you know what? I'm gonna throw these votes this way. And I couldn't even pinpoint it to one thing. I think, you know, with the intensity of the show and how big it's gotten, which I love so much, you know, everybody's been getting backlash online. It wasn't just us. Yes, ours was very intense. But when something's this big, I'm sure, as you know, like, there's always going to be naysayers. There's always going to be people, like, hating on you. I think there was just like a window of weeks where it was just like, God damn.

[C]

God damn.

[D]

Well, God damn.

[B]

Well, that's what I was going to say because a lot of people online are like, you can't vote people off. So on Dancing with the Stars, the point is to vote for your favorite star and your favorite pair to advance in the competition. We all know that.

[A]

That.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

But this season, maybe because of social media and how there are so many conversations going on on the side that maybe people weren't able to have in the past, but this season, people started to actively ban together online and were saying, let's vote for everyone. But, yes, except for Whitney and Mark.

[D]

Correct.

[B]

And so there was a gamification happening where then technically you're like, no. So you are kind of trying to vote someone off because you're voting for. For everyone. Not just your favorite star, Everyone but you.

[C]

Right.

[B]

When did you guys first realize this was happening?

[D]

Probably week five. Yeah, like, because I was like, even for me, I've been on the. On the show for so long. Like, when I would see those comments, I'm like, oh, you must be new. Like, you can't vote somebody off. Like, that doesn't exist. However, over the years, the voting systems has changed. We used to have two shows. A.2 shows a week, meaning there would be a results show the next day. We don't have that at the moment. And you know, the votes. When the show's live, you can vote. Right. But then as the discourse continued, I did see, like, oh, that's the loophole is that they vote for everyone. But. And I like, honestly, for me, it was like a. Oh. Moment after. Like, again, I always say there's not much that surprises me on this show because I'VE done it for so long. That was new info for me. Me. I was like, wow, okay, how did.

[A]

That affect your dancing then?

[B]

You guys are in these rooms together, trying your hardest to prepare, but then you're also like, the Internet is literally gamifying this and finding the loophole of how to vote for everyone but us. Like, did it affect your morale in terms of, like, is it even worth giving it our all if we know that this is the way it's gonna go? Yeah, like, people are laughing so you don't start crying.

[C]

Yeah, like, this is the thing. Like, like, and this is what, at least for me, I was so grateful with this friendship is because there would be a day where maybe, like, it really got to me. And then Mark would be like, no, like, let's. Let's keep working our asses off and just, like, put great work out on that stage. And then other days it would shift, like, and then Mark would be having a really hard day, and I'm like, no, let's work our asses off and, like, go put out some really great shit. Like, luckily, I feel like there was never a day where it was both of us, because I think if it was ever at that point, like, that would have been really hard.

[D]

I think the tipping point, honestly, for me was I was putting my son to bed. And, like, literally, I was, like, putting him to bed. And then as at, like, seconds after I did that, I opened my phone to just the wildest video.

[B]

If you don't mind. Could you share maybe some of the comments that got to you guys the most?

[A]

Oh.

[D]

I could read you one, actually.

[C]

It's the one that you just caught.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[D]

It's wild.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

This is really heavy. Do you do.

[B]

I'm ready.

[D]

You can edit it out if you know, but, like, this is one that I just got, like, randomly. Okay. Like, are you. This is after one of our dances. Are you that cheap of a cunt to rot and do this? Damn, you're special. You're completely worthless, and I hope you fucking burn in hell one day. It. That's just one of them. And that's. They're relentless like that over a dance show.

[B]

Guys. Like, I. I'm. I actually just have, like, full body chills because I'm like, I. I understand. Again, like, you're watching this through cameras and there's a. You're sitting at home and this is fun. And it's the night before Thanksgiving and people watching, but, like, guys, this is, like, horrible. Over again. A dance show, like, and I'm not even putting it down. It's like, keep in mind what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to bring people happiness and together, and so to be sending that level of hatreds for what, what have you done?

[D]

I think also the thing is, it's like, I think there's a narrative of, like, well, you wanted to be in the entertainment industry. You signed up for this.

[B]

No, you don't sign up for that.

[D]

I didn't say no.

[B]

No.

[D]

Human beings dance to choreograph, to make music, to be on, to entertain people, to bring happiness, to bring joy.

[B]

Mark, even if they said your dance was horrible, I didn't like that dance. That wasn't good. Yes, Fair. Totally love that.

[D]

I, I, I have dances where I watch mine back and I'm like, I hate that. It's horrible.

[B]

Not good. Not good.

[D]

And, and that's the great part. That's the fun part. Right. It's like art is meant to be subjective. I'm well aware people aren't going to like everything that I make, and that's okay.

[B]

I'm really sorry, though. That's not healthy, and that's not normal. And again, unveiling it, it's like people can read what they want, but then they get to go to bed, you're sitting with your son, and you're reading these things about yourself. And so then to get up the next morning. And then. Now let's turn to you. What are some of the comments you were getting?

[C]

I will say I've definitely become a little bit more desensitized to it because I've experienced it for years. But I think, like, what was a little bit triggering was watching someone experience that for the first time for something for what? Like, it just, it made no sense to me. And then I also at times felt like it was my fault because I was like, oh, like, maybe it's because. Maybe it's because of me. Maybe it's because he's partnered with me. So then it felt like my fault. Like, it was just like a roller coaster of emotions.

[B]

Like, during that time, a large conversation about you was that you are too opportunistic and that you wanted to win too badly and you were, quote, arrogant. How does that make you feel when you hear that back?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you. I never thought I was winning Dancing with the Stars. I really didn't.

[D]

We really knew that. We knew that.

[C]

Yeah. Like, we just. But I wanted that experience, and I would hope that anyone that had A dream or something that they want in their life or experience that they want, that they would go after it. Not to put anyone down along the way, but to go after it. And that's what I've always. That's how I've always been. It's like, oh, I. I'm. This is something that I want in my life. This is some. This is a dream that I have. I'm going to. While still having my morals and values go after that.

[B]

I think there was a lot of people online that were supporters of you that came out. Yeah. That started to say, this is beyond misogynistic. We're calling her arrogant. We'd call a man ambitious. Like her coming out on Secret Lives being like, yeah, I want to do this show. It really rubbed people clearly the wrong way to have a woman be so centered and sure of herself and know what she wants and to go for it. And I'm curious, like, do you think. Think had you been a little bit more shy and demure and quiet and just, like, overly grateful. Grateful. Do you think that paired with your dancing abilities, you would have had just a better outcome on social media for yourself?

[C]

You mean if I was a man?

[B]

Yeah, if I was a man, then.

[C]

Yeah, I think it would have been fine.

[B]

I think they would have said, yeah, you go after that. Meanwhile, you're like, but I'm not. Yeah, but we start all crying.

[C]

Yeah, I'm a mom with three kids.

[B]

And it just doesn't work.

[C]

It just doesn't work. And to be honest, like, when the. When the show was gonna air, when I knew. I knew the show was going to air after the semifinals, which, again, didn't even think we were gonna make it even that far. But I didn't know how it was gonna be received. But it was half and half. And, yeah, it would be interesting if I was a man saying that on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. I would be curious to know how that would be received.

[B]

I agree.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Can we talk about the cast a little bit? Because I agree there was hatred happening again. You guys were the crux of it all, and you objectively got it the worst in terms of hate. But were you talking about this with cast members in terms of what you were going through?

[C]

A lot of people were going through it. I definitely feel like it was all really heightened for us specifically, but it was, like, nice to have that camaraderie or relate with other people or it's like, bro, you can just say you didn't like the dance. You don't need to go even farther than that. A lot of people felt it this season.

[D]

Yeah, I think the pros. And we all kind of chatted about it, too, because, again, a lot of us have been on the show a long time, and this is new waters to navigate. And, you know, we've all known each other a long time. We work well together. We dance together. Like, we're friends. So, yeah, we. There was definitely some conversations about how to navigate.

[B]

You know, Mark, people online were speculating that you won't come back after everything you two went through this season. They're like, you guys ruined it. We're never gonna get back. Where do you currently stand?

[D]

I mean, again, like, I. I. I love the show. I love creating on the show. Even after my season with Charlie. Like, they had me come in and guest judge one day, and then I got to dance with Derek. The season before, I was in between, like. Like, still working through that injury stuff, because there's a difference between doing, like, a spotlight performance and then doing a full season. Like, you have to be right for that, because injuries will creep up on you. Like, but I. I wouldn't say that. I'm like, you know, of course this one's just finished, so, like, when you need to sleep for a little bit.

[C]

Give me a breather, right?

[B]

You're like, I've learned not to say it right when it ends, but I'll have.

[D]

I'll have a chat with Rob.

[B]

So t. He's like, you're coming back. Okay. Whitney? Yeah. Is there anything you would like to say to. As we kind of wrap up this part of the conversation, to people who actively, really, really essentially gained a hatred for you throughout this process? And when you guys got eliminated, quote, said, the war is over. She's gone. Like, do you have anything that you would want to say to those people?

[C]

I don't know, because what I'd want to say is you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But even just that, I think that I don't know one person, because I get it. You're like, I don't want to p. I don't know one person who wouldn't say that. You. My mental health. You're reading this message. You're with your children. You're trying to have a fun time. I think, again, I'm just sitting here. I have a show, and I love to sit with people. But now I've been doing this for too long, that I have sat with people after people after people on reality television who look me in the eyes and are depleted, are exhausted, and Are like, I want to give entertainment. I'm down for the jokes. I'm down for the banter. I'm down for some, like, hard comments that I'm like, oh, like, my outfit didn't look as good or my. Whatever. What, My dance wasn't good. But I. I am starting to begin to believe that it's like we have to turn the conversation to the people watching, where it's like, at what point are we all the problem? And we are creating this thing online that is like, it's not fun anymore, guys, where I'm sitting with two human beings right now, and I'm gonna. I hope I don't continue, but I already know it's gonna happen with Love Island. I'll be next summer. You'll see me tuning in, and some woman is gonna sit across from me and say, my mental health is so broken because the Internet has taken a reality show, which is so entertaining. We love reality shows. But they have taken it and they've created something out of that. It's like, you murdered someone's family, and it's become. It's become too real. It's become too big.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And so to sit in these moments and just be like, hey, yes, fuck you. It's not that deep.

[C]

Just the domino effect of even the hate online. Then maybe strive to be the person to be the domino effect to not be the hate online. Maybe try to say a little bit more positive things. Maybe try to not have the intention to tear someone down and create that domino effect. Because it's so crazy. Like, even with week five, when that hate happened, like, it just took that one video or it took that two comments, and then it creates a domino effect. Well, okay. Well, then let's create the other domino effect.

[B]

Yeah. I hope that's what comes from this conversation. And I think meeting you guys and hanging out with you, it's like, you're not trying to be victims. And I want to make that very clear. We're not all sitting here being like, this is. But it. It is. Needs to be a conversation. This is getting absolutely part of the experience.

[D]

That's that simple. Like, you know, totally.

[B]

That was part of the experience. I hope. Again, I don't think this one conversation will change it, but again, maybe it will make people think. Maybe let's try to be a little bit different and have a little bit of a different effect. And maybe as fun as it is to post the comment, and then you go off with your family, it's sitting with the actual people that you're writing about and just be more thoughtful about that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

To turn things a little bit more.

[B]

Positive because you're both so talented. Okay, so we have TBD on. If we're gonna get you back on Dancing with the Stars, we'll let you, like, ice your body and, like, do some, like, saunas and, like, relax. Whitney. Yeah. Whitney. Yeah, girl. Whitney. There's a lot of speculation online right now. There's people zooming in on you. Why is she in New York? What is the paper she's holding?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What's going on, girl? What can you tease for us?

[C]

What can I tease?

[B]

People want you on Broadway. People want you in. People want you everywhere.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

There's two things I'll tease. Okay. One, I did just book my first movie, which is really exciting.

[B]

Holy.

[C]

I know.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

And then two, I'm going to be announcing on Monday, but what I can say is a dance that Mark and I performed on Dancing with the Stars, a dance that we performed, too, on Dancing with the Stars, is going to.

[B]

Come to life.

[C]

And I'll. Everyone's going to know on Monday.

[B]

You realize right now the Internet is going to be like, she got it. She did it. We'll wait for you to announce when you're ready to announce. Okay. Okay. The fans are distraught. The fans are distraught because they wanted a freestyle dance.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

They're like, how are we not going to see a Mark and Whitney freestyle dance? This doesn't make sense. They're like, even if they didn't win, we needed at least just give us that. At least let us see the dance. And so I don't know if anyone's noticed, but we are currently sitting in the middle of a dance floor, and I was wondering if, Whitney and Mark, you would do us the absolute honor of performing your freestyle last dance.

[D]

It would be a pleasure.

[A]

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