Ellen Pompeo: Pick Me, Choose Me, Pay Me More

Summary

Call Her Daddy Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Ellen Pompeo: Pick Me, Choose Me, Pay Me More
Host: Alex Cooper
Release Date: March 19, 2025

In this compelling episode of "Call Her Daddy," host Alex Cooper sits down with Ellen Pompeo, the acclaimed star of "Grey's Anatomy," to delve into her remarkable career, personal life, advocacy efforts, and her enduring legacy in the entertainment industry. The conversation provides deep insights into balancing fame, family, and self-advocacy, offering inspiration to listeners navigating similar paths.

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1. Invitation to the Podcast and Family Involvement

Ellen shares a heartfelt story about how her daughter, Stella, played a pivotal role in inviting her to the podcast. This family connection adds a unique dynamic to the interview, highlighting Ellen's dual roles as a mother and a leading actress.

Notable Quote:

Ellen Pompeo [02:12]: "She follows me. That's so cool… And she just knew I would do it."

2. Personal Background and Parenting Style

Ellen opens up about her upbringing in Boston and how it shaped her strict and intense approach to parenting. Describing herself as "bossy, empathetic, and passionate," she emphasizes the importance of discipline and empathy in her household.

Notable Quote:

Ellen Pompeo [03:33]: "I will break their fingers. I am very strict."

3. Experiences on "Grey's Anatomy" and Its Societal Impact

Discussing her long-standing role on "Grey's Anatomy," Ellen reflects on how the show has inspired many viewers to pursue careers in medicine. She shares that her interactions with fans are overwhelmingly positive, with many expressing how the show has influenced their professional paths.

Notable Quote:

Ellen Pompeo [05:30]: "People say, 'I'm a pediatric oncologist because of you.'"

4. Shonda Rhimes’ Leadership and Support for Women

Ellen praises Shonda Rhimes for her exceptional leadership and unwavering support for female actors. She highlights Rhimes' efforts to create a balanced environment where women can thrive both professionally and personally, especially when navigating motherhood.

Notable Quote:

Ellen Pompeo [22:48]: "Shonda is extraordinary… she really supports women being able to work and have families."

5. Journey into Motherhood and Personal Growth

Ellen shares her initial hesitations about becoming a mother and how her relationship with her husband, Chris, influenced her decision. She describes the profound personal transformation that motherhood brought, enhancing her empathy and emotional depth.

Notable Quote:

Ellen Pompeo [26:41]: "To be financially independent is what makes me the happiest, me feeling the most free."

6. Navigating Career Challenges and Financial Advocacy

Ellen discusses the gender disparities she faced in contract negotiations, particularly in securing her $20 million salary. She emphasizes the importance of using data to advocate for fair compensation and leveraging her position to uplift other women in the industry.

Notable Quote:

Ellen Pompeo [52:17]: "I have this data to back up… I know the show has generated this much money. I definitely deserve a percentage of that."

7. Handling Fame, Public Scrutiny, and Legacy

Addressing the challenges of fame, Ellen reflects on the public's mixed reactions to her salary reveal. She discusses strategies for maintaining focus on her work despite external negativity and outlines her desire to leave a legacy of empowerment and support for other women.

Notable Quote:

Ellen Pompeo [79:58]: "I’d like my legacy to be someone who used my voice, my privilege and my power to help other people."

8. Relationship Dynamics and Overcoming Media Scrutiny

Ellen opens up about her interracial marriage to Chris and the media scrutiny they faced. She discusses the additional challenges posed by racism and how mutual support in her marriage helped them navigate through public judgment and bias.

Notable Quote:

Ellen Pompeo [65:35]: "The media was really biased because… how dare this skinny, blonde, petite little woman be with this tall black man."

9. Transitioning to New Projects and Exploring Different Roles

Ellen talks about her decision to step away from "Grey's Anatomy" to explore new acting roles that challenge her creatively. She shares her excitement about upcoming projects that diverge from her iconic character, aiming to showcase her versatility as an actress.

Notable Quote:

Ellen Pompeo [71:21]: "I couldn’t do Grey's anymore… If nothing's coming along, my destiny will find me."

10. Preparing for New Roles and Storytelling

Discussing her preparation for new, darker roles, Ellen explains how she draws from universal maternal instincts and expectations. She emphasizes the complexity of human emotions and perspectives, aiming to create multifaceted characters that resonate deeply with audiences.

Notable Quote:

Ellen Pompeo [76:06]: "Every mother has the intention and the maternal, biological, crazy instinct to literally do anything for your kids."

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Conclusion

Ellen Pompeo's candid conversation on "Call Her Daddy" offers a multifaceted look into her life as a successful actress, mother, and advocate for women's empowerment. From navigating the complexities of fame and strict parenting to advocating for fair compensation and exploring new creative avenues, Ellen provides invaluable insights and inspiration. Her dedication to using her platform to uplift others sets a powerful example for women in all fields.

Listeners are left with a profound appreciation for Ellen's resilience, integrity, and commitment to making a meaningful impact both on and off the screen.

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Notable Quotes Recap:

1. Ellen Pompeo [02:12]: "She follows me. That's so cool… And she just knew I would do it."
2. Ellen Pompeo [03:33]: "I will break their fingers. I am very strict."
3. Ellen Pompeo [05:30]: "People say, 'I'm a pediatric oncologist because of you.'"
4. Ellen Pompeo [22:48]: "Shonda is extraordinary… she really supports women being able to work and have families."
5. Ellen Pompeo [26:41]: "To be financially independent is what makes me the happiest, me feeling the most free."
6. Ellen Pompeo [52:17]: "I have this data to back up… I know the show has generated this much money. I definitely deserve a percentage of that."
7. Ellen Pompeo [79:58]: "I’d like my legacy to be someone who used my voice, my privilege and my power to help other people."
8. Ellen Pompeo [65:35]: "The media was really biased because… how dare this skinny, blonde, petite little woman be with this tall black man."
9. Ellen Pompeo [71:21]: "I couldn’t do Grey's anymore… If nothing's coming along, my destiny will find me."
10. Ellen Pompeo [76:06]: "Every mother has the intention and the maternal, biological, crazy instinct to literally do anything for your kids."

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This structured summary captures the essence of Ellen Pompeo's interview, highlighting key discussions, insights, and memorable quotes, making it accessible and engaging for those who haven't listened to the episode.

Transcript

[Ellen Pompeo]

This episode is supported by FX's Dying for Sex, starring Michelle Williams and Jenny Slate. Inspired by a true story, this series follows Molly who, after receiving a terminal cancer diagnosis, decides to leave her husband and explore the full breadth of her sexual desires. She gets the courage and support to go on this sex quest from her best friend Nikki, who stays by her side through it all. FX is dying for sex. All episodes streaming April 4th on Hulu.

[Alex Cooper]

Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax. When you think of taxes, it used to be just getting frustrated by your forms, right? But now taxes is uploading your forms with a snap, and a TurboTax expert will do your taxes for you. Okay? One who's backed by the latest tech, which cross checks millions of data points for absolute accuracy. All of which makes it easy for you to get the most money back, guaranteed. Daddy Gang, get an Expert now on TurboTax.com only available with TurboTax Live full service. See guaranteed [e-mail] guarantees this episode is brought to you by lieb by Yves St. Laurent. Lieb Low Nou is the perfect statement. Bold yet light, with notes of citrus and floral alcohol free, long lasting and completely unforgettable. Find it now at Sephora. What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

[Jenny Slate]

Ellen Pompeo. Welcome to Call Her Daddy.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Jenny Slate]

I was just saying this to someone before you got here. I have interviewed so many people. My career now, hands down, I have never gotten starstruck. I'm a little starstruck right now. I am a huge fan.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Huge. Thank you so much. I'm a fan of yours, too. Thank you.

[Jenny Slate]

Your daughter is here today.

[Ellen Pompeo]

She is.

[Jenny Slate]

She is in the Daddy Gang. You have to just, like, lightly tell the story of how this came to be because I am. I love her right now. I'm like, you are an og. Thank you for getting your mom on the show right now. Tell us everything.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Okay. So I was driving, and sometimes, you know, she's in the car and I'll have her look at my messages when they come through because I can't look when I'm driving. So she says, oh, you got an email from lead, my publicist. And mom, mom, you got invited on Call Her Daddy. And I was like, I did. And she said, yeah. I said, well. Well, I can't. I can't. I can't do that because. Because the. The Daddy Gang doesn't know who I am because I'm like 105. And you know, and so. And so she was like, mom, are you kidding me right now? First of all, Alex follows you on Instagram. Mom, She's a fan. She watches Grey's Anatomy. She loves you. You're doing this. And of course, like every mother with a 15 year old, whatever they say, I do. So I was like, oh, really? She follows me. That's so cool. I'm cool. I was. I felt so cool. So I was like, let's do it, let's do it. And she was like, I'm responding to your publicist and I'm letting them know. And so she did. And then they said, stella, you're hired.

[Jenny Slate]

Stella walks in here and her confidence, she literally just said to me right before, she's like, I responded to the publicist. I told her we're doing it. I'm like, you are such a mini of your mom. That is like, she's. Her energy was amazing. I'm so grateful to her. I'm so, so happy we're here. Okay, are you a strict parent or like, how. What's the vibe? Are they sneaking out? Are they not seeking out? How's it going?

[Ellen Pompeo]

They are not sneaking out. I will break their fingers. I am very strict. I'm super intense. I'm a Scorpio.

[Jenny Slate]

How would you describe yourself in three words?

[Ellen Pompeo]

I think bossy, empathetic, and passionate.

[Jenny Slate]

You grew up outside of Boston, right?

[Ellen Pompeo]

I did.

[Jenny Slate]

Do you still have any of that Boston accent if. Can you bring it back?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Wait, are you kidding me? You can't hear it? No. Have you ever spent any time in Boston?

[Jenny Slate]

Yes, I went to college there. My mom's from Boston.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Stop it. Where is she from? Lowell.

[Jenny Slate]

Yes.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Wait, where did you go to college?

[Jenny Slate]

Boston University.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Good for you.

[Jenny Slate]

So yard pack the cow.

[Ellen Pompeo]

I didn't go to university. I was working at Dunkin Donuts. Hun.

[Jenny Slate]

I love that for you.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yes, I have. And my husband's from Boston also, so.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, okay.

[Ellen Pompeo]

I'm constantly trying to not sound like I have a Boston accent, but if.

[Jenny Slate]

You needed to, you could pull it out.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Oh, it's, it's. I always feel like it's there. I hear it, but you may not hear it as much, but I could pull it out in two seconds.

[Jenny Slate]

Okay. Maybe it will come out today. Who is the most famous person in your phone?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Ooh. Ooh. That's a good question. DiCaprio.

[Jenny Slate]

The way you just said that. Even like, just like, not even like you're not even sure. You're like, maybe DiCaprio.

[Ellen Pompeo]

I mean, he's pretty iconic.

[Jenny Slate]

Just a little bit.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah. But his dad is in my phone, too. And listen, the man, the myth, the legend, George is where Leo came from. So in my opinion, you know, no diss to Leo. He knows I love him, but George is the real og.

[Jenny Slate]

I'm at hearing you say the name George just literally brought me back to, like, season one, two, three, four. Okay. We're gonna get there. Your fans are obviously so die hard, and by fans, I mean me literally sitting in front of you right now. What is the craziest fan interaction you've ever had?

[Ellen Pompeo]

You know, I. It's. I don't think I've had, like, any really crazy, inappropriate ones, but they're all pretty impressive when they say, you know, I'm a pediatric oncologist because of you, or I'm a pediatric neurosurgeon because of you. You know, there's a lot of people that have gone into medical careers, which, you know, pediatric oncology. I mean, are you kidding me? That's like, how do you do that every day? If that's truly God's work. So I think I've never gotten, like, a weird. I've never gotten any weirdos, no.

[Jenny Slate]

More like inspiring.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Do people see you on the street and call you Meredith all the time?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah, not so much in la, I think la, everyone's used to actors. You know, it's. It's more other places.

[Jenny Slate]

What is the wildest rumor you've ever heard about yourself?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Oh, that's super easy. There was, like, this ridiculous, like, I had six toes or some shit like that. It was like, yo, tablets used to be so crazy. You what? Listen, you ladies have it easy because back before the phones and Instagram and TikTok and all this new media, there used to be tabloids. There was 50 of them, and they would just write the craziest shit. And that was one of the craziest things that, like, I had six toes, which I actually have 10 toes, but I think they meant I had six toes on one foot.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Obviously, Grey's Anatomy is everyone's go to Comfort show. What is yours?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Oh, well. So I think Love island right now, U.

[Jenny Slate]

S or uk, it's.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Wait, it's us. But they're on an island. Not in the United States.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, yeah, but they're like. It's either the U.S. version or the U.K. version.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

You're. You're us.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yes.

[Jenny Slate]

You like Love Island?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Well, I watch it with Shell. Listen, I'm very critical. I Talk a lot of. While I'm watching Love Island, I talk mad. No one talks more than me watching Love island, but I do watch it. It's like me and Stells. It's, it's, you know, what we do.

[Jenny Slate]

It's your thing.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

It's like you got to be dedicated. There's so many episodes. It's like, before you know it, you've like missed on six episodes because, like a bunch come out every single day. When it starts going out. Like, do you watch them in bulk?

[Ellen Pompeo]

No. Like, how do they film so many? Yeah, like, there's like 47 episodes now. I've only ever watched, I think, one season.

[Jenny Slate]

Yes. Yeah.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah. Serena and Cordell, that's my shout out. Those are my peeps. Love them. Literally want to get invited to their wedding. They're so adorable. But what? But, yeah, like 47 episodes. What? How do you film 47 episodes? It literally must just be like two hour blocks of a 14 hour day.

[Jenny Slate]

It's so entertaining. I also was addicted. I interviewed Leah and Rob from that season and it was just like the biggest thing ever. I'm like, love island people go hard. But clearly we know because you're sitting right here. Okay. Growing up, my mom and I had a ritual. We would eat dinner together. We would turn on grays, we would watch until our eyes hurt, and then we would force ourselves to go to bed. How does it make you feel knowing the way that that show has just like impacted so many people's lives? Whether it's bringing people together, keeping people comforted when they are lone and they're alone, whether it's inspired them to go get a job in that field. Like, how does it make you feel?

[Ellen Pompeo]

I think it sort of justifies for me, you know, why I've done it for so long. Because, you know, as actor, as an actor, you say you. You want to touch people and you want to move people. Right? And I think everybody wants to be impactful in their life. Everybody wants to be seen, heard, and have an impact and sort of lead this planet feeling like I did something worthwhile. And I think if I've been a part of something that brings people together, then, you know, that that sort of legitimizes it for me. Because as an artist, you know, it isn't the most normal path. Right. All actors, you want to chase the trophies, you want to chase being relevant. You want to chase the new sexy, hot, shiny thing and work with this director and that director. And I didn't choose that for several reasons, but the Fact that I didn't, you know, it's always in the back of your mind, like, what. What would have happened if I didn't do this much later on? You sort of feel, you understand it now. I mean, I've had a really full home life as an actor, which is something that I probably wouldn't have normally been able to do if I. If I had taken a different, more creative path. So. But it makes, to answer your question, makes me feel like I've really done something as commercial as it is and perhaps as uncreative as it may be for my field. I've touched a lot of people and moved a lot of people and inspired a lot of people, and that's more than a lot of people in this business can say.

[Jenny Slate]

And I think what you've done, every single person watching this is going to be like, oh, she's the best. She's the best. She has been there on my TV since I can remember, and I love her. And I think in some capacity, it's interesting to look at actors and it's like, is it for your own ego? Or if you just love what you're doing and it's fun, like, isn't that enough? But I. I love. What you're saying is, like, this afforded me what I wanted, which was, yes, my career, and I loved it. But I also love my family because. Right. You. You filmed a lot in la, right?

[Ellen Pompeo]

All of it, yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

So that's what allowed you to have this steady lifestyle.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yes.

[Jenny Slate]

While also being able to be a mother and to be a wife and to be a friend, while simultaneously having a very successful career that is very public. But comparatively, you're not flying across the world to Serbia and filming a movie.

[Ellen Pompeo]

And different things work for different people. Right. You know, at a certain point, you know, I. I had a choice to sort of finish my contract or stay. And at the age I was, I was like, oh, well, I'll be 40 when my first contract is up. I better resign and take this money because, you know, they offer you, if you resign, we'll give you this giant raise. So I thought back then, 20 years ago, 40 women at 40. It's over. That's a wrap, honey. So I was like, oh, I better sign and I better. I better do this, because this is the most money I'm ever going to make and the most opportunity I'm ever going to get. And women in this industry are so incredible because look at how far we've come and every little bit matters. Right? But we all collectively Push this giant boulder up a hill, and we've gotten it to a really good place where here I am at 55 years old. I just turned 55 last month, you know, and. And. And I'm getting a whole second chapter here after this with this new show. So I think that, you know, it's. It's different for different people. And also, being raised in Boston and growing up the way I grew up, which was pretty intense for me, I became aware at a very early age that people with money had power, and I didn't have any power as a young woman, and I didn't like the way that felt. And I think part of that is just my personality. It's not all your environment. It's part of it is just my personality. And. And I would watch people that. Men, all men who had a lot of money and a lot of power. I looked up to them and thought they were incredibly cool. And they were all really bad guys. They were all mafia guys and really bad people. Super nice to me, just like Goodfellas. They were great to all of us. But really, they weren't probably the best guys, and I know that now, but they were the ones who had all the power. And their wives and girlfriends wore fur coats and, And. And people literally, the sea parted when they walked through, and they just had this command. And that, to me, was like, they had it. They had stature, they had money, they had power. So I equated money with power very early on. And as a woman, I'm sure you know how freeing it feels to have financial independence because you don't have to be with any man you don't want to be with, you get to choose what man you want to be with because you want to be with him. And the day you decide you didn't want to be with him, if that were to ever happen, which it won't, you know, you can walk out the door. I mean, you know, for women, financial freedom is true independence. And those little patriarchal bitches that you know are. Are shivering in their panties right now because I can't. I just cannot. To be. To be financially independent, to me is. Is what makes me the happiest me feel the most free. I don't ever have to do anything. I don't want to do it.

[Jenny Slate]

I love you saying that, because I do think there is a feeling for women where when you don't have the money, you still think, well, is it. Is it the money, or do I need to be close to a powerful man? And it's hard to separate. But once you get there, you're like, oh, I don't need Jack. Get away from me. But it takes you climbing the ladder and interacting with the patriarchy and the misogyny and experiencing it all to now be sitting where you're saying like you're sitting here and just being like, I'm good.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Wait, but hold up.

[Jenny Slate]

Yep.

[Ellen Pompeo]

I'm not even mad at. You have to be next to a powerful man. Go ahead, get next to him and use him to level up. Just step right on him and just level up. Don't stay under him. If you do what you have to do, girl, use him, get right next to him, pick his pockets and keep it moving. It's okay, you know, And I'm not mad at any, you know, woman who does whatever she can to get where she needs to go.

[Alex Cooper]

I agree.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Just get there and keep it moving. You know, don't be in an apron cutting his meat, honey.

[Jenny Slate]

Period.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Foreign.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Jenny Slate]

Let's go back for a second to your agent first told you about Graze. You weren't really into it. What were your hesitations about doing the show to begin with? And where were you at your career and financially when you were trying to make this decision? Should I take Grace Madamy and should I not?

[Ellen Pompeo]

I was broke. I had done a movie with Jake Gyllenhaal called Moonlight Mile and it got like all this buzz. People saw it and was like, this is going to be an Oscar movie. You're going to be nominated for an Oscar. This is crazy. And I really didn't know what I was doing at that point. It was my first movie. I was terrified. And before it came out, I got all this attention from all these people were calling me, all these big producers, all these big directors were calling me and we thought this was going to be some big deal. It ended up the studio didn't actually market the movie because they thought the movie was so sad. They didn't really know what to do with it or how to market it. So they built it all up in my mind and were like, this performance is incredible and this is gonna happen and that's gonna happen. And CAA came around and the publicists and the lawyers and everybody comes around. And then the movie came out and kind of like it was in five theaters. So I was like, wait, what? And then I, you know, I chugged along. I was trying to be in good movies with great directors, but they were only really small parts. So I kept doing those. I kept getting like sort of cut out of those. And then I had no money left. And so this came along and I was like, ah, I don't want to be on a TV show. Like I'm trying to be in these movies. And I had all these people call me and tell me how amazing I am and I should stay on this track. Why are you trying to derail me and put me over here? And my agent said, well, it's just a TV pilot and these things never go. So you can make a bunch of money with the TV pilot and then you'll be unemployed again in exactly 42 days. So. So I. So I just did it, not. Not knowing, you know. And then the pilot got picked up and then we went back to shoot season one.

[Jenny Slate]

And what was your first impression of Shonda Rhimes?

[Ellen Pompeo]

I had lunch with Shonda at RIP Barney's. Remember Barney's?

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Ellen Pompeo]

I had lunch with her. They said, we want you to go meet this person. And to be honest, it was called the Untitled Shonda Rhimes project. At that point, I hadn't been reading any scripts that I would have been the main character. I was always the girlfriend. You know, I was some side chick down an alley in one scene in these great movies, you know what I mean? There was nothing for me to really do, but because I was all, I had a hard on for the director or you know, it's this director and this big movie stars in it and you know, whatever. And listen, some of those movies are great. I was in Catch Me if you can with Leo and like Spielberg directed that and that was amazing. And I love those guys and I'm so grateful for that opportunity. So not to diss all of it, but I didn't have much to do in those movies. And Shonda's script was really the first thing that was like, oh, you're the center, you're the lead and you're playing a surgeon. A smart character, a working woman who's trying to figure it out. And I was like, wow, who is this woman? And then I went and met her and had lunch and I. And I loved her. I mean, it's pretty, right? When you speak to her right away, it's obvious how smart she is.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, I can imagine the electricity in the room. When you're with someone like that, that is that smart and talented. It. I feel like when I'm around smart women, it's inspiring, and you want to work harder, and it's motivating. Like, what do you think her best quality as a boss was and is?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Her best quality as a boss is. That's so easy to answer. When you tell her you're pregnant, you're having a baby, she literally, like, sounds the bell, the confetti comes down. How many days do you need off? What can we do for you? How do we make this easier for you? How do we get you paid and keep your job? Like, you. We're gonna write your scenes, and you only have to work one day a week. I mean, she's extraordinary in that way. Back to my earlier point of being able to have this amazing home life. Shonda is a big family person. She has a big family herself. You know, she's always with her parents and her sisters, and she really celebrates women going on a fertility journey and, you know, whether biological, non, biological. You know, I had my second two children Vi surrogate, and. And she just a really big supporter of women being able to work and have families. And I don't think there's many people in this town who. Who do that.

[Jenny Slate]

I don't have kids, but it's not lost on me that, like, I'm at that point where I'm thinking about, like, what is that next step for me? And I've literally been at dinners, Ellen, like, in Hollywood, and people have even said to me, like, oh, just wait a few more years, because you know what happens when you have kids? Like, it's gonna all change for you. As my husband's sitting right next to me, and I'm like, and for him, too, or just. No, just me. Just me. I'm gonna become the mom and the damaged goods. And I'm not as good, and I'm not as. And it's just you feel the tone in the way that people speak. And so to have someone that is advocating for you. I bet there's going to be so many women that listen to this being like, oh, I wish my boss would do that shit. And that should be a prerequisite standard for the way that women are treated. Not even in this industry, but in every single field. Whatever you're doing for your job, like, that's how we keep this world moving, is we are making the next generation. So support us in that journey 100%.

[Ellen Pompeo]

But people who judge that and make those very ignorant comments, they lack wisdom and they lack intuition and they lack magic. And Shonda is magic. We know that.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, we do.

[Ellen Pompeo]

And you know, the truth is, and she has even famously said this at work, I'm not, I'm not 100% at work. When I have kids at home, I'm absolutely not. You cannot be a mother and have children and give a hundred percent to your job. You can't, because there's a part of you that's somewhere else. You split into different pieces. You're no longer just you. You split into different pieces. And you know what that does? It makes you more soulful. It makes you richer. It makes you funnier, it makes you feel more. It makes you more empathetic. It makes you angrier. It gives you this range of emotions that you can't even imagine having without this person. You will be yourself times a thousand. You will just be a better version of yourself. And it doesn't matter that you can't give 100% to this, because, by the way, as women, we evolve anyway. And you're gonna, Whether you. I'm not saying kids is the only path. Plenty of people don't wanna have kids, and that's great for them, but if that's something that you want, that's only gonna make you better. You know, you're gonna morph into. You'll morph into that person who part of your being is a mother. And that's only a plus.

[Jenny Slate]

Thank you for sharing that. Because, like, I needed to hear that. So I can imagine there's a lot of people listening, being like, yes, Ellen, thank you. Like, can I ask, did you, for your first. Did you have any. Not hesitations, but did you. How did you feel about your career and having your first child? And, and were you this confident at that point?

[Ellen Pompeo]

I definitely wasn't this confident, but it was more of my husband really wanted to have a child. I, it wasn't really, because I had a complicated, sort of sad childhood. I, I. What childhood? To me, I, I didn't have any sort of fond memories of children. And I wasn't, I didn't feel any maternal anything really, because I didn't have a mother or I had one, but she passed away.

[Jenny Slate]

Okay. I was gonna say, do you mind me asking just a little bit about your childhood?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Passed away of an accidental overdose when I was four. But so, you know, you know, I don't have all these fond memories of childhood and dying to be a mother. And all of that was really my husband who said, I really want to have a daughter and I want to name her Stella. And I was like, you, you know, you. I don't know you kind of should have asked me this before we got married, because I don't know. I honestly, I've worked since, you know, 14 years old. I love working, and I didn't really ever think about it. I just loved working every day, loved going to work. And he was like, you really don't want to have a kid. I was like, oh, no. And then he was like, just one. And I was like, oh, no. And then I was like, oh, okay. And then I started having, like. He forced me to sort of think about it more seriously. And then I thought, you know, you think all the things like, what if I have a kid and then I don't like it? Like, you can't send it back, like, what happens? And then I'm like, But a lot of people have kids and they're, like, obsessed with them, so like, maybe something happens and maybe they really do like them. And then I thought, well, you know, I'm 38 years old, and if I don't do it, I won't ever be able to. And then if I don't really like the kid or like being a mother, I'm like, I'll just have the one, right? I was like, I don't have to do it again, and I'll just deal with the one. So we did it. And then, of course, you know, my heart broke open and it changed my life forever. And I evolved into a completely different person. And I would say I'm so much better for having had children. Wow.

[Jenny Slate]

It's inspiring, you hearing, talking about it, because I know there's mothers that listen to this. There's people that don't want kids, there's people that do want kids, but just the way that you can tell, you are so filled up by the decision you made, and obviously you didn't stop at one, so clearly you liked it. Hi, Stella. Listening over there? No, it's beautiful. It's really beautiful. And I appreciate you sharing that, because I. I think a lot of what I've talked about on my show is there's so much of what we decide from our childhood, and so much of our childhood impacts us, but it doesn't define us. But you have to decide where you want to start carving your own path. And it doesn't mean that you're not going to take the things that happened to you from childhood, and then whether you change things that you didn't like or you want to bring things forward that you liked. But like. Like a lot of creating your own family is because of what you went through. And it's beautiful to hear you talk about how, like, you and your husband came to this decision and it wasn't something that you were at the forefront of your brain. I think as career driven women, it's, it's can be hard to feel like I'm gonna put a pause on and then hearing from you, you're like, I didn't really need to pause. Look at you. You're like, you've, you're doing it all and you can do it all. And I think that is inspiring. I'm gonna ask you some questions, some greatest questions, and you're gonna tell me first thing that comes to mind.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Okay.

[Jenny Slate]

Which character's death hit you the hardest?

[Ellen Pompeo]

George O'Malley. It has to be 007.

[Jenny Slate]

That moment where he wrote on your palm. I mean, the writing.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

I'm like, you just killed me. Like, you just stabbed me in the heart. How dare you?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Holy. Okay, I agree. Which scene was the most emotional to film?

[Ellen Pompeo]

That was a pretty emotional one. But I would, I would have to say, I think Sandra O's last day was really emotional for me. I can speak for myself. We'll speak for her. But for me, it was, it was really emotional because I, I, I really, like, she, she was such a loss because she's so immensely talented, and I really didn't think the show could go on without her. And I was okay with that, but it just, it literally felt like half of the show just leaving.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, it felt like a piece was gonna always be missing. And I felt like when obviously anyone from the core left, it felt wrong. But that, because she was your person and you were her person on the show, it was like, I think even back to the way that you guys, the writing of that, like, you're my person, and I feel like that has transcended the show in a way, because in my life, I have my person and her name is Lauren, and she's my best friend and. But it's more than a best friend. And I think that word has kind of seeped into people's lives where you really start to think, like, there's that iconic scene at the bar when she's, you know, pregnant and she's going through it and she's gonna, like, not choose to keep the baby. And it's such this, this beautiful moment of this, like, feminine energy between these two human beings, of just this bond that is this unsaid thing. Like, we will trudge through the. For each other. And it was very inspiring to me at a young Age. And now I always use that term, and it mostly comes up when I'm going through the really hard in life, and I always go to my person when I need her. So thank you for bringing that to life. Also for me, emotional. When Izzy and Denny Duquette and everyone's walking down the stairs.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yes, of course. Of course. I mean, listen, the. The brilliance of Shonda. There's. There's been a lot of moments.

[Jenny Slate]

How many moments?

[Ellen Pompeo]

But. But. But all of those feminist moments, right? Christina Yang talking about an abortion on network primetime television, saying that the woman is the most important relationship in your life, not the man. I mean, you know, she really is a feminist trailblazer in terms of, like, what. What we see on the screen on primetime television. She changed the game for sure.

[Jenny Slate]

Without a doubt, the grossest prop you've ever had to work with.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Oh, my God. Definitely. Real organs, real body parts. Yeah, it's gross. It's really gross. We don't. We. We. We stopped using them, you know, in the later seasons, but in the beginning, we used to use, you know, real bowel, real intestine, like, bovine, cow intestine, cow heart, cow liver, cow brain. It's. It's all. It's all really. It's all really gross.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, you've gone through it.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Okay. Which Meredith Gray line is most often quoted back to you?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Pick me. Choose me. Love me. That's iconic, too.

[Jenny Slate]

More than I. Katie Heigl, didn't even.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Know that pick me girl came from that. I was like, girl, dude, we're legends.

[Jenny Slate]

When I saw that interview between you guys, and you were like, did you know what a pick me girl is? And she's like, are we picking girls? I was dying. You're like, my daughter told me that we basically. And I was the ultimate pick me girl. Stella's like, mom, you're such a Pick me. I'm like, oh, my God. That line, though I agree. I also will never forget the stairwell moment. And I have to tell you the story because it's so embarrassing. When you looked at Derek and you.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Say, you don't get to call me a whore. Yeah, yeah, girl.

[Jenny Slate]

And you say, I. You basically say, like, I will not apologize for the way that I repair my. Choose to repair what you broke. I'm not a whore. I use that on an ex boyfriend.

[Ellen Pompeo]

You do?

[Jenny Slate]

It's so embarrassing, Ellen. I'm in the wake of a breakup. He cheated. I'm devastated. I move on. He finds out. I move on quickly. He calls me a. I'm sitting there like, what. What can I say to this man? We're gonna get brunch and we're gonna talk it through. And I'm like, this man has never seen Grey's Anatomy. I pull your line out of my ass. I look this man dead in the eyes over a coffee and I literally say, you don't get to call me a. And I said the whole line. He was too stunned to speak. I was like, I literally like, I hope he doesn't like, go Google that because it was so brilliant. Oh. And he was like, mortified. I was like, thank you, Meredith Gray. Moving on. So I've literally. You pretty good. Meredith has so many near death experiences. Which do you think was the most insane?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Insane in what way? Like on. Not believable?

[Jenny Slate]

No, insane in the. Like, it really pushed. It pushed. Like for me. The fairy.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah, the fairy. And Derek carrying me when I'm blue was, you know, that was amazing.

[Jenny Slate]

And Christina saying, again, try again. I'm like, yeah, can you watch this just a couple times?

[Ellen Pompeo]

That was amazing. Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And I think the. The bomb moment was.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Jenny Slate]

Heavy.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Which co star would you consider your closest friend?

[Ellen Pompeo]

You know, I probably. I'm closest to Justin Chambers.

[Jenny Slate]

Okay.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah. I think Justin and tr. I think I'm. I'm closest with them. Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

As we all saw, Meredith didn't make the best decisions in her relationship. Sometimes. Sometimes we love our girl, but sometimes. I'm gonna give you a scenario from the show and you tell me what advice you would now give Meredith. Meredith begging Derek to choose her over his wife.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Girl. Bye.

[Jenny Slate]

Love. Meredith rebounding with George when she knew he liked her for years.

[Ellen Pompeo]

I mean, can I tell you. Can I tell you an inside story about that?

[Jenny Slate]

Please.

[Ellen Pompeo]

That's. This is a crazy. TR And I are such good friends. And we had to do a love scene and we were both crying. We cried. We cried. And the scene was so uncomfortable and awkward and he didn't want to do that. I didn't want to do it. And when we filmed it, it was so bad. And then the network said there was too much thrusting in your worst nightmare to have to do it one time. We had to reshoot that shit. We had to reshoot it and do it twice. No, I mean, if you. By the way, I've never watched that scene. I've never seen it. But I don't know how it was shot or covered or what the end, how it was edited. But I'm full on in tears the whole entire scene. And those Are real tears. Yeah. There was a lot of stuff that I didn't want to do at the time. I didn't want to say, pick me, choose me, love me, you know? And to Shonda's credit, like, she knew that was going to pop. I was like, why would I do this? Why would I beg? Why would I. And. And, you know, you have to just suck it up and do it. And. And it ended up being, you know, the biggest thing ever, the most iconic things ever. So I'm not always the best judge of, you know, what's gonna. And it's not like I said it wasn't gonna be good. I was just like, I don't want to do that. And. And, you know. But.

[Jenny Slate]

So that's so interesting. Thank you for the little T there. Thank you. Okay. Meredith attempting to be friends with benefits with an ex like Derek.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Listen, it depends on the situation.

[Jenny Slate]

True.

[Ellen Pompeo]

You know, you never know. Do what you need to do, girl.

[Jenny Slate]

Kind of fair.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Handle your business.

[Jenny Slate]

Meredith dating a former patient.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Was he hot? Who was it?

[Jenny Slate]

Wasn't it Nick? Was his name Nick?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Oh, Nick Speedman's so hot. Yes. What? We're not questioning dating speed. I'm not Speedman. Nick Marsh.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Speedman's happily married with two children, my good friend. But, you know. You know, Daddy gang. He's hot.

[Jenny Slate]

Love. Okay, and last one. Meredith building her future home out of candles to show Derek her commitment, even though he had a girlfriend, Rose.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Wait, I built it. No, he did the candle.

[Jenny Slate]

No, you did. You stupid, stupid house. I shouldn't have done this. I'm so embarrassed. I don't want to be. And he comes in, remember? Yes.

[Ellen Pompeo]

No, I don't even remember.

[Jenny Slate]

Meredith built the house in candles.

[Ellen Pompeo]

I thought he built the house in candles.

[Jenny Slate]

No, you're like. I'm so embarrassing. This is so stupid. I shouldn't have done this. And then he's like, meredith. And you're like, this is our living room. This is where we're gonna have the kids. This is where. And he's like, I have to leave. I have to go tell Rose.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Really?

[Jenny Slate]

I love. I'm telling you this.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Oh, my God. I didn't remember that. That's what it was. You know what I remember from that scene? I remember the poor prop people having to light every single candle. And, like, the wind blowing and blowing out half of them.

[Jenny Slate]

And then me, like, so good.

[Ellen Pompeo]

There was, like, 17 of us trying to light all the candles.

[Jenny Slate]

Okay. It's obviously such a big cast. Can you talk to me about, like, how do you handle? Because at the end of the day, this is your job. How did you handle when maybe you didn't vibe with certain people on set or you didn't get along with people like anyone does in a work environment? Like, how did you personally navigate those moments?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Maybe not always the best. I think there's no real roadmap to do it one way. I think it depends on the circumstance. You know, not everybody is going to like you, and you have to be okay with that. I say. I say that to Stella all the time. You know, you don't like everybody. I don't like everybody. So not everybody is going to like you. And that's sometimes hard, but it's just a fact of life. And you have to just swallow that pill that, like, you're not everybody's cup of tea. And so it's challenging. I think that, you know, sometimes I've. I've. I've. I think what's hard. What was hard for me on set for Grace is I felt like, because I did have a position of power that I could advocate for certain people sometimes and try to fight for people when they maybe didn't feel like they had enough power, and then to have that not be well received and people to, like, say, like, we don't need. We don't. I don't need you to, like, do that for me. I thought, like, oh, yikes. So sorry. Like, you know, and. And I. I've learned so much, but. But what I've learned is every situation is different, you know, and then, you know, not, Not. Not all. I've not always handled everything perfectly, obviously. I've stuck my foot in my mouth more times than I can choose on the show and off it, you know, all you can do is learn. And I think the thing about me is my intention is always good, but sometimes as a sort of strong person, and I'm a strong person because I've survived a lot and dealt with a lot, so I do have a tough exterior. Sometimes that is misconstrued as something else because I am hard on the outside, and I curse like a sailor. And I'll literally start a fistfight in the middle of Rodeo Drive with someone who cuts me off. I will. Don't sleep. I will. But I'm also, like, super soft and chewy inside. And, you know, so I. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm a. A complex blend, I think.

[Jenny Slate]

Aren't we all? I do want to talk a little bit more about that of you being the Leading role. Right. And the pressures that come with that. And can we talk about money? Yeah, let's talk about money.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Let's do it.

[Alex Cooper]

Call her. Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. Okay, so I went on a trip with all of my girlfriends to Vermont, where my best friend was getting married. And we were all gonna figure out, like, well, where do we want to stay? And, oh, this place is too far away, and if you stay there, I won't really get ready with you. And then we decided on an Airbnb. And it was the best decision of the weekend because we got this house. All of us stayed there. Matt came, my friends came, my friend brought her boyfriend, and we all were able to feel like we were almost back in college, where we were all in one space. We all got to make our coffee together, we got to eat break together, we got to go on walks together. We got to have late night conversations after we went to the rehearsal dinner and the weddings. And it was just the best time because I feel like if you don't stay in an Airbnb, you're not going to be as close, you're not going to have those late night conversations. And we as girls, you know how much goes in to those late night conversations. We also had a pool table, which was so fun. The guys ended up playing while the girls were having wine in the living room in front of the fire. Just talking about all the things about life and dating and relationships, you know, a wedding makes you emotional. I told Matt in 2025, My goal is to stay in more Airbnbs wherever we go. If we're exploring a new city culture, learning a new language, traveling wherever it be, Airbnb is where it's at. So you can really be fully, fully invested in your time and experience all the things that come with that environment. Airbnb is the best way to make your trip one to remember, because you get to explore not only the new city, but new space in the city. Staying like a local helps you feel immersed wherever you are, as opposed to feeling like a tourist. You can grab groceries at a local market, explore the neighborhood bars and restaurants. Daddy Gang. And if you want to go somewhere but you don't really know where, guest favorites might inspire you and may create a new tradition for you. So, Daddy Gang, as you book your 2025 travel, my number one tip is to check out Airbnb first to find the perfect place to stay, because your accommodation can really make or break the trip. Whatever your travel priorities are, they can be taken care of. With an Airbnb. Want a big kitchen, a gym, somewhere you can bring your dog? It's my favorite way to travel. Hands down. There are so many reasons I love Airbnb. Stay tuned to hear more about my upcoming trips this year. Call her. Daddy is brought to you by T Mobile. You know, listen, I've tried in my growing up to not really get too, too involved in the drama. But you know, we all love a good juicy rumor. And let me tell you, Daddy gang, it is time to spill the tea on a rumor I have heard going around. And by T, I mean T Mobile.

[Jenny Slate]

Boom.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Jenny Slate]

Your $20 million salary was publicly shared to the world. How did you feel when that came out?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Well, my manager at the time said something to me that literally hit me like a brick. He said, are you. How are you ready to be unpopular? I was like, what do you. What do you mean? And he was like, well, I just don't want you to think that everyone's going to go in and cheer for you and clap for you and, and bow to you and think you're the dopest thing ever because there's going to be a lot of people who are not happy for you. And that had never occurred to me. And I was like, oh, thanks for saying that. To me, it did not occur to me. And you are so right. And so that was a good prep for me that he said that. But. But it's true. It's. It's not. Everybody and other women have said it, you know, publicly. Like, no. People generally, it's. It's hard for people to celebrate other people, and if. If they have something that resembles something that they want.

[Jenny Slate]

No.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

I feel very in sympatico with you on this, and I'm enjoying asking you this because I'm also, like. I think probably also, like, enjoying any wisdom I can get, because I think you deserved that.

[Ellen Pompeo]

And do you.

[Jenny Slate]

Thank you. But you don't prepare for. You're right. That feeling where you're so like, wow, holy. There's not a lot of women who have gotten to this point, like, and in your head you're celebrating. Like, I remember in my moment, it was less about. In moments myself, more about, like. I don't think I'm, like, ever gonna get comfortable with the number being out there. Like, my first. First contract was. I remember when the number got leaked and I was like, whoa. I'm so proud, though, that people know that it's there because it stands for so much. I thought, in my mind. But then you get this wave of negativity that I. I say it all the time. And it is a definite statement that men just do not experience this level of scrutiny when it comes to money. You have Jeff Bezos and Elon and Trump, and all of these men get to just fucking shit money in front of our faces, and everyone thinks it's hot and powerful and they're so. And then the minute we get any of it, even in the ball, not even in the ballpark, we're just lightly getting a part of the conversation. It's like, oh, she doesn't deserve it either. She's a. She found a way to maneuver it because she's not worth that. And it's like. Like, it's a lot.

[Ellen Pompeo]

It's. It's a lot. And it's patriarchy and it's misogyny, and that's what it is. What. You know, sports players, too. Sports players are celebrated for their contracts, crazy contracts. Not saying they're. They don't. They're not worth it. But, I mean, it's okay for them to celebrate it, and it's. And it's not okay. And I think what. What helps me is to really focus on. To not sort of to take myself out of it and stop thinking about myself and what people Think of me and just focus on what I do best, which is the work. Focus on the work, and focus on when you make a lot of money as a woman. Let's face it, you have power, right? So then how can I take that power and do good with it? How can I amplify someone else? How can I help someone else? How can I lift up someone else who doesn't sit in the position of privilege that I sit in? What people think of me, who cares? You can't control that. What you can do is use your power for good. And there's a lot of women probably in your field, you know, who would love a show on Unwell.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Ellen Pompeo]

And. And who would thrive and would do anything to get on your network and be under your umbrella. They just need a chance, you know? So who cares what people say about you? You just keep doing you and use your power to lift up other people, and your power wouldn't have been for nothing.

[Jenny Slate]

Can you talk to me about what doubts you personally had to push through in the moments where you needed to essentially go in and advocate for yourself of what you're worth to get to that point in your career where you're like, I deserve this number. Whatever it was. When you're sitting in those rooms with these people who are probably like, I don't know. If you do. Can you talk to me about that?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Well, yeah, sure. So I'm super lucky, and I have a great team of lawyers and agents. Right. And then here we go. Once again, Shonda Rhymes. I, being a. Be. Being a woman, I guess I'm conditioned to make sure that I'm not stepping on anybody's toes and I'm being polite, which I guess people maybe who know me wouldn't say, well, bitch, you are not polite. But anyway, I asked Shonda first. I said, just so you know, she doesn't really have much to do with that stuff. You know, it's business affairs and whatever. But I said to her, I'm gonna go in and ask for this much. Are you cool with that? Just because I don't want to be disrespectful to her. I don't want to come off crazy, and I want to let her know what moves I'm making, because I do respect her. I am grateful to her, and. And I don't. And I do want to make sure I'm moving in the right way. Right. And so. And she was like, yeah, no one's going to give it to you. You have to ask for it. And so once I got her blessing to go ahead and do what I wanted to do. Then I said to my team, I'm okay with that. And you know, necessarily the business people might say, you don't need to ask her permission. You don't need to do that. That. And, and then I say, yeah, but I want to because truth is, I wouldn't be here without her. So I always back to my being raised in a mafia culture. I always want to pay respect to the people that deserve respect. And it makes me feel good to know I'm let, I'm letting you know how I'm moving because to me that's polite, that's courteous. I'm going to go do this. I don't want to make you look crazy. And it's communication and I just feel like it's good business and, and people know I'm upfront with them and I'm not shady. I'm not, I'm not shady at all. I'm super upfront. I always say it like it is. May not always land well, but like I'm transparent.

[Jenny Slate]

You know, I also think something that you said in that that's really great advice for someone when they are going to advocate for themselves and you are going to someone like Shonda who's again also in a position of power. You, in your gut, you were doing it out of a respect. It wasn't because you're back against the wall. You're like, if she finds out, she'll be mad. It wasn't at a fear base. And I think a lot of times when you're going to make a business decision for yourself or a relationship decision, whatever it is, checking in with yourself to be like, why am I actually doing this? You went to Shonda because she had, whether it was stuck her neck out for you or you and you respected her and you had a great working relationship with her. Like that was between you and Shonda where you genuinely wanted to do it, you didn't have to do it, but it meant something to you and her.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Relationship, you know, it's, you know, I believe in honor.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Ellen Pompeo]

And the other thing I believe in is sort of I don't want anything that I don't deserve. I don't want anything I don't deserve and I don't want anything that I haven't worked for and I'm happy to work for everything I have. And, and, and, and you know, the, the caa, can they print out a report right. You Q rating or whatever it is, they spit it out and they let you know exactly how you move the needle. It's all in the data. You affect this many households. Your voice is recognizable to this many people. The median income in that household is this. They break it down. You see exactly how much the. This network makes for the parent company. I see exactly how much Grey's Anatomy makes for abc, Disney. I get to see the number. And then, you know, it's my face, it's my voice. I've done so much work promoting the show all over the world for the past 20 years. It is. I am the, you know, Disney princess of that franchise. So. So, you know, I have this sort of data to back up. I know the show has generated this much money. I definitely deserve a percentage of that. And you can do the same. And that's what's challenging. And I've said this before, so I'm sorry if I sound redundant, but it is challenging for women to advocate themselves in different situations and jobs. Because if you cannot quantify what your. How your. What you do contributes to the income of that company, it's, It's. It's harder to fight for yourself and say, I deserve this. Well, you deserve this. Based on what. It is easier to quantify what you're worth when you see a hard number. So I advocate for women always fighting for themselves because most likely they are getting undervalued compared to what they're offering men. We know that also statistically, and women of color and Hispanic women and Asian women, you know, we know all those numbers. So they're always undervalued, valued. So all women should always push the envelope. All anyone can say is no, such.

[Jenny Slate]

A good point about I. The. I remember the first contract, essentially, I was in. I was so green, I was so new. I didn't know anything about bonus structure and download structure and all of that. And it was used against me. I was being lied to about what I should be getting to for a bonus. And so it was this, like, push and pull of begging for numbers, begging for numbers. And I remember when I got into my next contract, that was something I had personally made sure my lawyers put in the contract, that every single data point that impacts this show and how much money it's making, I get to see. Because now I agree with you. It's like anyone out there can be out there saying, we don't. We don't deserve it or whatever. I'm looking at the numbers. These people aren't just giving out fresh cash and free cash for Jack. It's like these. It no one is giving out money these days easily. So it's like, you're right. I think if, especially if women, even if it's. You're advocating for yourself to get the month, like buy quarterly check ins and getting more like tangible information. Information is power. And when people are trying to block you out of getting information, there is a reason for that. And the more that you can push to whatever field you're in, you gotta try to go for it because that's how you're gonna have leverage. So, so, and, and you talking about the male, female thing, which is obvious, obviously you and your co star Patrick Dempsey, I know you talked about in the past of just like they kind of would use it as leverage in your negotiations. Like, what message did that send you of someone you're on camera with and you can't get the same?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Well, you know, listen, to be completely fair, the television game was so different then. And he had done like 13 pilots before me. That was my first pilot I had ever done. And back in those days, you know, I don't know if they still do this or not. They had like, you had a quote. And with every TV pilot you did, you got your quote, which was whatever it was. So if you've done 13 TV pilots. And here we go. Nothing personal to him, but just in general. Only a man can fail, can have 13 failed TV pilots and their quote still keeps going up. Right. But in all fairness, his quote was what it was. He was a bigger star than I was at that point. No one knew who I was. Everybody knew who he was. So he did, he did deserve that money. I'm not saying he didn't deserve that money. It just being that I was the namesake of the show, I deserved the same. And then that was harder to get. So I wasn't salty about him getting what he got. I was salty that they didn't value me as much as they valued him. And, and, and, and they never will. And, and, and that goes for, back to my earlier point of like, once you get to a certain level, you can advocate, you know, for other women on your platform, you, or in your job, in your workplace, if you know, you know that, that, that you're getting this much and all the other women are well beneath you, you can't just be okay with that. You can't just be like, yes, I'm winning, Cool, let's go. No, you really do have a responsibility to look and see what everybody else is making and use your power to say, listen, I appreciate what I got this is amazing, but I happen to notice this and I really think that all the women deserve a bump.

[Jenny Slate]

That's. I mean, even hearing you back to the first question I asked you about this, like when your agent said that or your lawyer, I forget which one you said, which was so profound of just being like, girl, no one is gonna be that happy for you. How did you then just navigate the interpersonal dynamics on set of yet again knowing you deserved this. But there may be some awkwardness, like, was it tough?

[Ellen Pompeo]

It's like, again, yeah, I have some people pleasing element that I think all of us have. Right? Well, not everybody, but a lot of people. I definitely have it. And yeah, it's not easy because what's. What you see is, you know, you see the people. I was ready for it, right? Because he made that comment to me. So what I saw was people who didn't say anything. You know, I got emails from all these people. I'm not going to name drop, but like, I got a lot of emails that day when that story came out from, you know, amazing people. People who were like, how'd you get my email, you know, congratulating me? And. But then the ones who are quiet, you know, who don't say anything and you see it and you're like, okay, but, you know, I don't know what to say. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[Alex Cooper]

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Both.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Jenny Slate]

Today. Can you talk to me about. You're married to Chris and your career obviously was taking off simultaneously. You're dealing with Grays. There's these super, super, super. Not only steamy moments but I mean like there's the big one of the biggest love stories I guess you could say of all time. How did your husband feel about you having this, this insane romance on screen? Like was he chill with it? Was it like a conversation you guys ever had? Like, I guess. How do you deal with that as an actress?

[Ellen Pompeo]

I mean I think that it's it Chris really never watched the show that helped, you know is better for him. He knew just not to watch. You know, he really. I was with him before Gray's so Grey's kind of came out of nowhere for us and I just think we were on this crazy ride that we were just trying to hang on for dear life. You know the part part of it that was more intense for me even more than that was back to the tabloid stuff of like how they started attacking him, you know and bringing up his past things and a record that he had and stuff that he did. And, you know, we don't need to get into a whole racial breakdown here. But, like, you know, the truth is, is young black men in this country aren't given the same opportunities as everybody else. And a lot of people come from rough neighborhoods. I came from a rough neighborhood. I did plenty of dirt when I was young. I won't get into that here. But, you know, the truth is, publicly, he was sort of meant. You know, the racial component of our relationship was really something that he never asked for. And I was. I felt really more bad about that that I felt like the media was really mean to him and really biased because how dare this skinny, blonde, petite little woman be with this tall black man. The visual of that, I think America wasn't ready for that. The mail that I used to get, the racist, hateful, violent male that ABC would get because of that.

[Jenny Slate]

I literally got chills when you just said that because it's so disgusting. And it's. Is like, makes me emotional thinking about it, because the beautiful family you have created and the beautiful relationship you must have to weather a storm. That is all everyone else is bringing the negativity to you. Like, you're two human beings, like you said before, grays, like, you're doing your thing, and then this thing explodes and you become on this pedestal that people want you to act a certain way, date a certain way, be a certain way, and if you don't kind of fall into that exact stereotype that they want you to be, then you're failing. And I mean, I can't imagine the conversations and. But if anything, and correct me if I'm wrong, how much stronger in the end it made the two of your relationship. But you should have never had to go through that. Like, have you guys. Have you. Have you ever had to talk to your kids about this? Because, like, will they ever read these tabloids? You know what I mean?

[Ellen Pompeo]

No, no, I don't think. I don't think so. Because the media is so different now.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Ellen Pompeo]

You know, I think. I think what's. What's really helped is, well, Chris is biracial, right? His mother is white Jewish, and he grew up in Boston in the 70s in a real, you know, super liberal hippie sort of place. Right. So he was very familiar, you know, obviously very familiar with that type of attention and either, you know, negativity. Boston historically was always a super racist place. So I'm not, you know, everybody knows that. So, you know, And I think that. What's funny about. And Chris and I, because we come from the same place, we're like, you know, sort of two kids who made it out and then landed in Hollywood and, like, jumped on this ride, and we were just so. We just couldn't believe that, you know, something was actually happening. That it was great. I had this great job, and we were getting to travel all over the world. And so, in a way, like, we're. We had each other. And he's a big reason how I got through all that was because he did understand, because he is cut from the same cloth as. As I am. And I think that, you know, to your point, in women, in media or people see you and they have a certain idea about who you should be. And for me, you know, people aren't used to, you know, I'm probably. People see me and they think I'm. They think they know who I am, and they don't know that, you know, I'm this, like, sort of tough, you know, half mafia, half street fighter. You know what I mean? I'm confusing to people because they see me and they think I'm one thing, or they see Meredith and they think that's me and that's who I am. But really, I'm really very different.

[Alex Cooper]

Right.

[Ellen Pompeo]

And probably should have been on the Sopranos More. More than Grey's Anatomy.

[Jenny Slate]

Well, thank God you were on Grey's Anatomy. Okay.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Because Pranas would have been dope, too.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh.

[Ellen Pompeo]

I mean, thank God for Grace.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. Thank God for Grace, but, like. Yeah, no, that would not have been bad. Let's talk about now.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Okay.

[Jenny Slate]

The Good American Family. I'm thinking about Good American Family, and I'm, like, sitting here and I'm like, 21 years of grace.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yes.

[Jenny Slate]

21 years.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

This is your first project since that. How did you decide, like, I'm going to invest in a new character in a new story. Was it even ever a question that you would or wouldn't do anything else?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Well, I always. I didn't know what I was gonna do. I just knew that I really couldn't do grays anymore.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Ellen Pompeo]

That it was to the point where I really just felt like, you know, an animal at the zoo. Like, I. And even if in. Like I said, I'm a big believer in destiny, and I thought, if there's something else I'm meant to do, it's gonna find me. And. But. But I know I have to leave this. And sometimes, you know, you'd like opportunities to come while you're doing something so you have an easy exit, you have a soft landing. And. And it turns out I actually did get a soft landing because I'm. I still did both, but I was sort of thinking, like, nothing's coming along. And I really believe in this town, if they want you, they will find you. I'm on TV for 20 years, the biggest show ever. Like, everybody knows who I am. Clearly, these people don't want me. They're not coming for me. No one's offering me this. No one's offering me that. I mean, I've been offered a few things, obviously, but, like, could never make it work. And everyone's always just like, well, we're not going to offer Ellen this, because there's no way she can get out of her. For Gray's commitment. And for the most part, you shoot network television 10 months out of the year. So I had always committed to that. And then there's no room to do anything else. Now it's a little easier because you shoot 15 episodes. They've really reduced the orders on network television. But anyway, I had really stepped away, and I had said, I have to step away. I can't do it anymore. And if nothing else comes, nothing else comes. It's my destiny. No one wants me. That's okay. I can swallow that pill like I swallow everything else, and at least I'm financially okay. And then I got the script, which Laura Holstein, who's sitting outside, she, I think, brought it to me with my agent and, and, and. And my agent said. And I always said, why would we do this? How will we pull this off? This is kind of tricky stuff, this world. Social media, TikTok, documentaries, cancel culture, all of it. You know, it's all a lot. And this is tricky subject matter. And this looks like walking through a landmine. I don't know why we would do this. And then he said, you've always said if there was something so different and so crazy in a character that was just a complete 180 from everything you've done, that you'd love to do it, to challenge yourself and to prove that you can. And this is. Does happen to be tricky subject matter, and we're dealing with child abuse and disabled children and a lot of neurodivergent children and a lot of tricky subject matter. But if you really want to take a turn and you really want to flip Ellen, this is the moment right here. And so it's an offer. You know, they want you to do this, and you should just go for it.

[Jenny Slate]

Talk to me about leaning in, obviously, and preparing for this character, it is a. It is a very dark story. Like, as a mother yourself, how did. Where was the. In. Like, how did you find it within yourself to, like, enter into this character and be this character and bring it to life?

[Ellen Pompeo]

I think the. The first thing I started with was every mother has the intention and the maternal, biological, crazy instinct instinct to literally do anything for your kids. You can lift a car off your kid if you had to. Right. It's this otherworldly strength that you have to want to love your children, protect your children, and you will do anything to give them the best chance. So I started from that. And then what happens when you have the best of intentions and just doesn't go the way you thought it was going to go? So I think that things. We have a lot of expectations, and especially when people have children, you expect your child's gonna be super cute, you're gonna dress them up super cute, you're gonna put them in little dresses, and they're gonna look just like you, and they're gonna do everything you say, and they're gonna go to bed when you tell them, and it's just gonna be awesome. But, like, sometimes you have a kid who's like, we're not doing that today. I'm gonna throw this on the floor. I'm gonna knock this over, you know, whatever. And as a parent, like, there's a lot attached as a. Parenting is a lot about ego because you. You do expect this person to do everything you tell them to do. You want them to be exactly who you want them to be, but the truth is they're not. They come out who they are, and you have to deal with.

[Jenny Slate]

Is this a situation where you guys have been able to talk to the real family?

[Ellen Pompeo]

Nope. Can't do any of that. And we really did create, like, our writers. And this is the interesting thing about fiction and drama and entertainment is we can create our own narrative. And the idea that your truth is different than my truth. Truth. The two of us can. Can sit here today. I mean, this is maybe a bad example because we're having a great time and it's love fest, but, like, we come away from this with two different versions of what happens.

[Jenny Slate]

Yes.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Which is so often the case. You've been, you know, in situations with people where this person thinks this thing and this person thinks this thing, and you're like, wait, I didn't think that at all. That's what she thought. I was doing this. And they took it as this. So that's another one of our complicated human conditions as, like, your opinion and your version of events is different than mine. Everybody sees things differently, and we're certainly, you know, dealing with that in our country right now. So we're telling this story from a lot of different perspectives, which makes it complex and interesting because you think you know what this story is. People think they know what this story is. There was the movie Orphan that was done years ago, and people are, like, seeing the trailer, and they're like, oh, I know what that is. No, you don't. Like, we're smarter than that. Give us some credit, please. We've thought of everything and we've been thoughtful, and we're like, what if it was this? What if it was this? What if it wasn't this? What if it was this? And we're giving you a lot to think about out.

[Jenny Slate]

So I'm just so excited for you and for the world to see you in a different role. And I think it's. There is an anticipation that is exciting to know that we're not gonna see Meredith Gray on screen. And that is. And I think the complete departure is such a fascinating take that you did. And I'm excited that you went all the way, way to the other side. And I'm just excited for everyone in the world to watch this and enjoy it and ingest it and see you in a different light because you're so talented. We've all fallen in love with you through one lens, and now we have to adapt and change, and it's going to be such a fun roller coaster to watch this and to enjoy it. And selfishly, now, getting to know you today, I'm so excited for you. That, like you said, especially for women, like, how. How crazy that the first contract negotiation that you did for Grey's Anatomy, you were turning 40, and you're like, oh, well, this will probably be it. I guess I'll take the money. And now look at where you're sitting. And we are talking about 19 seasons, and then here you are, and you got a new career moment that's about to just completely take off in a different direction. And here we go again, again. It's wild. It's really wild. Last question. What do you hope your legacy is in this industry and what it will be?

[Ellen Pompeo]

That's a tough question.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Because also what I love is, like, did you see Jane Fonda on the SAG Awards? Like, her consistency, right? I love consistency. I love. Yes, she's. That. She's exactly who she's always been. She was that then got canceled for it in the 70s when she was speaking up about us killing children in a war. And she's still speaking up and she's still using her voice. So I guess that being said, I'd really like my legacy to be someone who used my voice, my privilege and my power to help other people.

[Jenny Slate]

It was more than an honor to sit with you today. I I got my fan girlness out. I learned so much. I felt so inspired. I felt connected, like this was all the things an interview I could ever ask for. So thank you so much. Ellen. You are one of one.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Alex Cooper]

Thanks to lieb by Yves St. Laurent for sponsoring today's episode. Make a Statement with Lieb La Nou, the fragrance that sets you apart. Shop now at Sephora. Hi Daddy Gang, it is your father. I am so excited that Color Daddy has officially joined the Sirius XM family. I cannot wait to talk to new guests and continue to share my crazy personal stories and experiences with you every single week. If you want to hear new episodes ad free, subscribe to SirusXM podcasts on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial.

[Ellen Pompeo]

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[Jenny Slate]

Cosentyx Gucinumab is prescribed for adults with.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Moderate to severe plaque psoriasis 300mg dose.

[Jenny Slate]

And adults with active psoriatic arthritis 150mg dose. Don't use if you're allergic to Gosentyx. Before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Ability to fight them may occur like.

[Jenny Slate]

Tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Some were fatal.

[Jenny Slate]

Tell your doctor if you have an.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Infection or symptoms like fever, fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough, had a vaccine or planned to, or if inflammatory.

[Jenny Slate]

Bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur.

[Ellen Pompeo]

Learn more at cosentyx.com or 1844-cosentyx Cosentix works for me. Ask your doctor about Cosentyx.

[Jenny Slate]

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[Ellen Pompeo]

They have framed jeans. Nike? Yes, just so many good brands.

[Jenny Slate]

Vince, Kurt, Geiger, London Rag and Bone and more are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. You never know what you'll find, but you know it's going to be so good. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.