Jane Goodall: A Lasting Legacy

Summary

Call Her Daddy: Jane Goodall - 91 & Thriving Released on May 21, 2025

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Overview

In this special episode of Call Her Daddy, host Alex Cooper engages in a profound and inspiring conversation with Dr. Jane Goodall, the renowned primatologist and environmentalist, who is celebrating her 91st birthday. Departing from the show's usual celebrity-focused episodes, this discussion delves deep into Jane's lifelong dedication to science, her groundbreaking discoveries, and her unwavering commitment to fostering hope and change in a tumultuous world.

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Introduction to Jane Goodall's Legacy Timestamp: 01:49 - 03:36

Alex Cooper introduces Jane Goodall as the oldest guest ever on Call Her Daddy, highlighting her monumental contributions to science and her role as a trailblazer for women in research. Cooper emphasizes the unique nature of this episode, encouraging listeners to absorb Jane's wisdom in a focused and reflective manner.

Alex Cooper (01:49): "Dr. Jane Goodall is 91 years old, the oldest guest that we've had on Call Her Daddy. And the wisdom that she carries is unlike anything that I've ever experienced sitting across from her."

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Jane Goodall's Early Inspirations and Journey to Africa Timestamp: 10:26 - 20:08

Jane Goodall shares her childhood experiences that ignited her passion for animals and science. From her mother's supportive and nurturing nature to her early fascination with books like Dr. Dolittle and Tarzan of the Apes, Jane recounts how these influences shaped her dream to study chimpanzees in Africa.

Jane Goodall (16:02): "I found the book of Dr. Dolittle when I was 8, came from the library... I knew there wasn't a Tarzan. That's when my dream began. I would grow up, go to Africa, live with wild animals and write books."

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Overcoming Challenges and Breaking Barriers Timestamp: 20:35 - 30:19

Jane discusses the societal and financial obstacles she faced, including skepticism about her unconventional career path as a woman in a predominantly male-dominated field. She highlights the pivotal moment when National Geographic recognized her work after her discovery of tool use in chimpanzees, which challenged existing scientific paradigms.

Jane Goodall (21:16): "When you told people that your dream in life was to go to Africa and to research, what was their reaction?"

Jane Goodall (22:15): "Studying chimps in the wild... were thinking about to not be separated from it by being a human in that world. It's hard to explain and it didn't happen that often, but when it did, it was a very basically spiritual experience."

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Finding Balance: Advocacy, Relationships, and Personal Growth Timestamp: 30:19 - 45:34

The conversation shifts to the importance of maintaining hope in dark times and the role of young people in driving change. Jane emphasizes her Roots and Shoots program, which empowers youth worldwide to take action in their communities. She also touches upon the challenges of balancing professional commitments with personal relationships, sharing insights from her own experiences with her husband and the eventual drift due to differing career paths.

Jane Goodall (34:36): "These are people who are so happy and why are they happy? Because they're doing something good and they're giving back."

Jane Goodall (45:14): "There we go."

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Navigating Public Perception and Empowering Women Timestamp: 40:00 - 45:16

Jane addresses the issue of how women are often objectified and how to reclaim one's self-worth and confidence in the face of such challenges. She advises women to recognize their value beyond physical appearance and to maintain confidence in their professional capabilities.

Jane Goodall (43:42): "Do you have any advice for women listening on how they can advocate for themselves in an intimidating work situation?"

Jane Goodall (45:14): "There we go."

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Aging with Purpose and Maintaining Hope Timestamp: 51:01 - 56:57

Reflecting on aging, Jane shares her perspective on lifelong learning and the importance of staying engaged and compassionate. She reiterates her message of hope, particularly for young people, emphasizing the impact of education and proactive efforts to improve the world.

Jane Goodall (55:00): "Every day you live, you make an impact on the planet. And you have to choose what sort of impact you make."

Jane Goodall (56:54): "Good boy, Henry. We did it."

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Concluding Thoughts and Final Messages Timestamp: 52:06 - 56:57

In her final remarks, Jane encapsulates her enduring commitment to environmental conservation and youth empowerment. She encourages listeners to take actionable steps in their communities and to uphold hope as a driving force for positive change.

Jane Goodall (52:09): "Every day you live, you make an impact on the planet. And you have to choose what sort of impact you make."

Jane Goodall (56:57): "Good boy, Henry. We did it."

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Key Takeaways

1. Passion and Perseverance: Jane's journey underscores the importance of pursuing one's passions despite societal expectations and financial hurdles.
2. Empowering Youth: Through initiatives like Roots and Shoots, empowering the younger generation is crucial for sustainable global change.
3. Balancing Personal and Professional Life: Navigating relationships while maintaining a demanding career requires understanding and sacrifice.
4. Self-Worth and Confidence: Women should recognize their value beyond physical appearances and advocate for themselves in professional settings.
5. Hope and Action: Maintaining hope is essential, and taking actionable steps within one's community can lead to meaningful impact.

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Notable Quotes

• Alex Cooper (01:49): "The wisdom that she carries is unlike anything that I've ever experienced sitting across from her."
• Jane Goodall (10:26): "I would grow up, go to Africa, live with wild animals and write books."
• Jane Goodall (34:36): "Because they're doing something good and they're giving back."
• Jane Goodall (43:42): "Do you have any advice for women listening on how they can advocate for themselves in an intimidating work situation?"
• Jane Goodall (55:00): "Every day you live, you make an impact on the planet. And you have to choose what sort of impact you make."

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This episode serves as a testament to Jane Goodall's lifelong dedication to understanding and protecting our natural world. Her insights offer valuable lessons on resilience, the importance of fostering hope, and the enduring impact one individual can have on the world.

Transcript

[Alex Cooper]

Hi, Daddy gang, it is your father. I am so excited that CallerDaddy has officially joined the SiriusXM family. I cannot wait to talk to new guests and continue to share my crazy personal stories and experiences with you every single week. If you want to hear new episodes ad free, subscribe to Sirius XM podcasts on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Tinder. Spring and festival season is upon us, Daddy gang. It is time to get on Tinder and take a chance on matching with a new crush on Tinder. It has quite literally never been easier to find a new person with the same music interest. Shoot. I mean, maybe even someone who introduces you to something new. Okay, maybe you're not even just getting a date. Who knows? Maybe you're getting a whole new set of plans and set of things to do. Okay, but you better throw a couple likes their way or you'll never know know. Explore all possibilities for yourself on Tinder. It starts with a swipe. Download Tinder today. Call Her Daddy is brought to you.

[Jane Goodall]

By Batiste Dry Shampoo. You guys, I am always running from a meeting to a dinner to an event.

[Alex Cooper]

And if I'm being honest, I definitely.

[Jane Goodall]

Don'T have time to wash my hair every day.

[Alex Cooper]

So I really rely on Batiste Light.

[Jane Goodall]

Dry Shampoo to get me through. It is soft, it is subtle, and it absorbs oil without weighing my hair down.

[Alex Cooper]

Not only does my hair look clean.

[Jane Goodall]

But it feels feels clean after just a few sprays. I brought Batiste with me to a.

[Alex Cooper]

Girls trip last weekend, and I cannot tell you how many of my friends were like, alex, can I borrow your dry shampoo again?

[Jane Goodall]

So, Daddy Gang, go buy Batiste Light.

[Alex Cooper]

Dry Shampoo online or in store at your nearest retailer. Hello, Daddy Gang. Welcome back to another episode of Call Her Daddy.

[Jane Goodall]

This week's guest is Jane Goodall. I am freaking out. Okay. I am so excited for you to watch this episode. Jane has has dedicated her life to science and has made groundbreaking discoveries. She is truly a trailblazer and has paved the way forward for generations of women. Before we get into this interview, I did want to take a moment to acknowledge that I think that this episode might be a little different than what you're used to on Call Her Daddy every week. I know a lot of you come here to get to know some of the biggest celebrities on a more intimate level. And. And it obviously doesn't hurt when they spill some tea, but sometimes I think it's good to switch it up and step away from the conversations that we're having on social media constantly 24 7. And so I wanted to sit down with someone who has spent their life truly connected to the real world. And that is why this conversation with Jane is genuinely so special. Dr. Jane Goodall is 91 years old, the oldest guest that we've had on Call Her Daddy. And the wisdom that she carries is unlike anything that I've ever experienced sitting across from her. I felt it. Her presence, her perspective. It was so grounding in a way that I didn't realize I even needed. And I want you to feel that, too, today. So I suggest watching this episode alone. Whether you are on a walk, you're at the gym, you're laying in bed, you're at your home, you're at work, whatever it be, I just ask that you give yourself the space to really absorb what she is saying, because I promise it's worth it.

[Alex Cooper]

So let's get into it. What is up, Daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with call her daddy.

[Jane Goodall]

Dr. Jane Goodall. Welcome to Call Her Daddy.

[Henry]

Hi. Hello.

[Jane Goodall]

How are you doing?

[Henry]

Well, you know, this is. I'm in the middle of an American spring tour, and it's pretty exhausting, to be honest. Yesterday was super exhausting.

[Jane Goodall]

Can you tell me a little bit about what you're doing?

[Henry]

Well, what I'm doing is trying to help people understand that we're going through very dark times. And if we don't get together and start doing what each of us can to make the world a better place, you know, the future is very uncertain.

[Jane Goodall]

That's why I'm really excited that you're here today, because I. You walk into a room and I can just feel your wisdom and the things that you have learned throughout your life. It's like an honor to even just get to sit down with you for an hour. I love how you're, like, working so hard and it's. Isn't it your birthday tomorrow?

[Henry]

It is my birthday tomorrow, James. It's another way of, you know, what do I have to do? What's the hardest thing I have to do is raise money for all the different projects, you know, and people think, oh, Jane must be wealthy. She gives these lectures. She gets lots of money. Yes, but the money goes to our projects.

[Jane Goodall]

Do you ever take time for yourself? Like, are you going to celebrate on your 91st birthday? What are we doing tomorrow, Jane?

[Henry]

People like to celebrate my birthday the whole year. So I get all these birthdays and all these birthday cakes.

[Jane Goodall]

I didn't bring you a cake today because I knew you always get cakes from people, so I brought you whiskey instead.

[Henry]

Oh, that's super.

[Jane Goodall]

Do you like whiskey, right?

[Henry]

Yes. Well, you know, my mother, she. She died when she was 98 and she was sharp to the end, although she had Parkinson's. But she couldn't. She just didn't drink water. She said it didn't agree with. I don't like much water either. She couldn't drink wine, so her tipple was whiskey. So we, we made a thing that seven o' clock, wherever I was, I would raise a toast to her.

[Jane Goodall]

That is so sweet. And I love that your mom was like, water doesn't agree with me. I'm more of a whiskey gal. What is your favorite kind of whiskey?

[Henry]

Oh, I. Not the very expensive malty ones. I hope you didn't get a very expensive.

[Jane Goodall]

I got you one that's like. It's my favorite whiskey recently. It's this Japanese whiskey.

[Henry]

Oh, that's very good.

[Jane Goodall]

You'll be taking it home today. What did you do for your 90th birthday? That's a big one.

[Henry]

That again was celebrated the whole year. The only thing I really, really liked was when I was greeted on the beach by 90 dogs.

[Jane Goodall]

90 dogs.

[Henry]

90 dogs.

[Jane Goodall]

See, that's why I brought Henry today. I have not. I said to you, I said, I have not brought Henry in a while because you want to be respectful. You don't know when people are dog people are not. And when I knew that you're a dog person, immediately selfishly, I'm like, henry needs to meet the great Jane. Like I was like, you have to meet him and he needs to meet you. 90 dogs. Who facilitated that?

[Henry]

90 dogs. And it was in common. Carmel on the sea was off leash part of the beach. And everybody brought their dogs and so they were throwing sticks in the sea and then it began to rain and then it stopped raining. And it was just amazing. It was wonderful.

[Jane Goodall]

I believe maybe that's like a part of what heaven feels like, is just like you open your eyes and there's just dogs everywhere. Happy, running free.

[Henry]

And we got a great photo of all the owners with their dogs and me sitting in front with the sea behind us. It's a great photo.

[Jane Goodall]

I love it. You mentioned you travel 300 days a year for work. I Jane, I get exhausted from a week of travel. Like, what is your secret? How do you do it?

[Henry]

Well, I do it because I have to. You know, I've. It probably sounds strange to you, but I've now by now being, you know, 90, I feel that I was put on this planet with a mission. And right now, as I said, we're going through dark times and the big problem is people are losing hope. Many people come up to me and say, well, I look around all that's going wrong in the world and I just feel helpless. And so I say, well, you can't solve the problems of the world, but what about where you live, your community? Is there something there you feel you might like? You don't like litter on the, on the, on the pavement, or you don't like, they're planning to dig up a little forest to put yet another super mall, go and do something about it.

[Jane Goodall]

But you saying that you feel like you've been put on this earth with this mission, like, does it ever feel like too much of a burden to carry on your own? And how as much as you put into it, if you're not getting out of it, like, do you ever become exhausted?

[Henry]

Well, the thing is, you know, this mission keeps me going because there's so much to do.

[Jane Goodall]

Yeah.

[Henry]

And if we lose hope, we're doomed. Because if you lose hope, you become apathetic and do nothing. But I'm not alone, you know. The Jane Goodall Institute is now in 25 countries, different chapters, and in addition, there's our program for young people, Roots and Shoots, which is humanitarian and environmental, and that's in 75 countries.

[Jane Goodall]

Wow. How incredible that you have left such a legacy, that whether you were doing it or not doing it, it will now live on forever, hopefully.

[Henry]

You said you have left. I'm not dead yet.

[Jane Goodall]

No, I'm saying if you left and stop Jane. I mean, if you left and you decided like, it's time to retire, like I want to just go and relax on a beach somewhere, like if you decided to not do it, like that is. I feel like the test of a real legacy is knowing that it is going to just keep living on. Cuz you've like touched so many people.

[Henry]

No, not yet. I mean, you still got. I can't retire as long as, as long as I can, you know, and if I become physically disabled, if my brain works, I want to do more writing because I love writing.

[Jane Goodall]

Your little friend sitting next to you, what is his name again?

[Alex Cooper]

Mr. H. Mr. H. Okay, I need.

[Jane Goodall]

This story because I wanted to ask you, obviously you've had such an incredible career, but for some of my younger audience who maybe are becoming fans of you today or are fans of you, can you talk about like, how you got into what you do and what you love. And Also, how does Mr. H play into your story?

[Henry]

Okay, well, let me. Let me deal with Mr. H first.

[Jane Goodall]

Okay, let's get it.

[Henry]

Then I can put him away. Perfect. Mr. H was given to me 34 years ago by a man who thought he was giving me a stuffed chimpanzee. His name is Gary Horn. He was blinded in the US Marines when he was 21. Anyway, he thought he was giving me a stuffed chimp, and I made him hold the tail. I said, gary, chimps don't have tails. He said, never mind. Take him with you. And, you know, my spirit's with you. So he's been with me to 64 countries, and he's extremely famous. And if you touch him, I say, if you stroke him, the inspiration rubs off. So you asked how I got into it. Well, I was born loving animals. And the most important thing in my young childhood is my mother, because she supported me. So when I was one and a half years old, I don't remember this, but she told me she came into my room and found I'd taken a whole handful of wriggly earthworms to bed. And instead of getting angry like most mothers because, you know, she just said, she told me later, jane, you are looking so intently, I think maybe you were wondering how they walk without legs. So we took them back into the earth. Anyway, the point of that is that was the making of a little scientist. Asking questions, not getting the answer, deciding to find out for yourself, making a mistake, not giving up and learning patience. And a different mother might have crush that early curiosity. And I might not be talking to you now.

[Jane Goodall]

I feel like there's so many people that could be listening that envy that. Right. Because so much of when you're young, you're able to flourish based off of the environment that you grow up in. And there's a lot of kids that dream of things, and maybe it's cute when they're young, but as they start to get old, then the adults are like, that's not realistic. You can't make a career out of that.

[Henry]

Right, exactly right.

[Jane Goodall]

When you told people that your dream in life was to go to Africa and to research, what was the reaction?

[Alex Cooper]

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[Jane Goodall]

When you told people that your dream in life was to go to Africa and to research, what was their reaction?

[Henry]

We have to remember to start with, I grew up in the war started when I was five and you know, we didn't have much money. My father went off to join the army and we went to live with my grandmother was house of women and me and my sister, my mother and her two sisters and my my grandmother. And because there was no television back then, hadn't been invented, which young you probably find it hard to imagine, don't you?

[Jane Goodall]

I find it hard, but I feel like I talked so much to my grandmother about her life because I'm just naturally want to know about people's life experiences. So if anything, I think there's a part now where we envy that, and I know that probably sounds weird where like, I envy the older generations having a much more like, simplistic lifestyle because I do think it's kind of like corroding our brains in a capacity.

[Henry]

No doubt.

[Jane Goodall]

Yeah.

[Henry]

But anyway, you know, so I learned from being outside with nature, watching the squirrels and the birds garden in England and from books. I love books. And do you know Dr. Dolittle?

[Alex Cooper]

Yes, of course.

[Henry]

Well, I found the book of Dr. Dolittle when I was 8, came from the library and then I used to save up just a few pennies of pocket money. My sister bought sweets with them. I saved them and I found a little secondhand bookshop. And I was 10 years old and I found this tiny cheap edition of Tarzan of the Apes. Well, you know, no TV Tarzan, no film, just the book. So I fell in love with this glorious lord of the jungle. And what did Tarzan do? He married the wrong Jane. No. So anyway, I knew there wasn't a Tarzan. That's when my dream began. I would grow up, go to Africa, live with wild animals and write books. No thought of being a scientist. No thought of, you know. And everybody said, that's ridiculous. I mean, you don't have money, Africa's far away, and you're just a girl. Not my mom. She said, if you really want to do something like this, you're going to have to work really hard, take advantage of every opportunity. And if you don't give up, hopefully you find a way. And that's the message I take around the world, particularly in disadvantaged communities. And I wish mom was alive. And maybe she's listening. The number of people who said, jane, I want to thank you. You've taught me because you did it, I can do it, too.

[Jane Goodall]

I'm curious if you saw because it's incredible the way you're speaking about your mom and how impactful she was in giving you this confidence to go forward with your dream. Did you see your mom living her life the way that she encouraged you to do it? Because I feel like sometimes with generations, it's like they didn't get to do certain things. So then they're like, with their kids, they're like, go and do it and do it all. I wish I could have like, Was your mom someone that got to live out her dreams?

[Henry]

Well, unfortunately, you know, she had two sisters and a brother. She was the third. So the brother went on to be a surgeon, a brilliant surgeon. And her older sister was the first person to be qualified, first girl to be qualified as a physiotherapist. And mum was also going to college to do music, but the war came and her father died and sorry, not the war, it was her father dying and then there was no money left so she couldn't go to college, so she became a secretary. So she had a good life, but not the life that she probably would have dreamed of. So I was lucky, for my dream came true.

[Jane Goodall]

Yeah. And I'm sure there was something. I mean, I'm not a mother, but from what I can understand, and talking to so many women who have children like there is something innately in you that you want your child to have a better life than you have, even more experiences and more opportunities. And it's just, I think it's beautiful to hear the way that you speak about your mother and how much she was willing to sacrifice in her life to make sure that you got what you needed.

[Henry]

Parents. Parents need to be supportive, you know. Okay, so you're a little boy of three. I'm going to be an engine driver. Oh, don't be silly. You're not going. But why not say, wow, you'll be a fabulous engine driver, the best engine driver, because you know, they won't be an engine driver, but make them feel good.

[Jane Goodall]

But I bet that's what your mom in her brain were like, oh, there's no way Jane's actually gonna go to Africa. There's no way she's. And then you did it all. How often do you think in your career were you prejudged for being a woman? And the way that you looked and then slowly you were able to garner the respect because of the work you were putting in.

[Henry]

Well, I think I was kind of lucky because it wasn't a male dominated field because nobody really was going out at that time. Now, of course, everybody's studying Anil. Back then there were two primate studies and a giraffe study. Most studies were in captivity. And so everybody, you know, it wasn't like it is today. And I was really lucky. I had the whole feel. I mean, nobody had studied chimps in.

[Jane Goodall]

The wild, but studying chimps in the wild, like, I need to understand from your perspective, you weren't going into a lab. You're going into the wilderness, you're Going to be surrounded by animals. At the time, you had no formal training. Like, were you scared at all or did you have any hesitations?

[Henry]

No, I wasn't scared. It was my dream, remember? And there were two problems. First, money. Always money. Because, I mean, as you say, I wasn't trained, hadn't been to college, but finally got money for six months from an American philanthropist. And second, the. It was Tanganyika back then, Tanzania today. And the British authorities said, we won't take responsibility. It's a stupid idea. Young girl going in the forest. In the end, they said, oh, all right, but she can't come alone. That was when my amazing mother volunteered to come.

[Jane Goodall]

That's incredible.

[Henry]

And we, you know, our expedition was a shoestring. We had one old secondhand tent between us. We had to take a cook and we had scant supplies. But I was, you know, up in the hills every day.

[Jane Goodall]

You were 26 years old. Like, that is so incredible to know that you basically took a pretty untraditional trajectory with your life. And you took a risk and you went for something that, you know, you were passionate about.

[Henry]

You.

[Jane Goodall]

Could you give any of my listeners, we have a lot of young women listening who maybe they're thinking right now of like, should I take a risk? Whether it's with their career or their life trajectory, what it. Whatever it be like. Do you have any advice in taking risks as a young adult?

[Henry]

Well, I can only think of the advice my mother gave me. You know, if you want to do something, work hard and take advantage of opportunity. The key thing is you've got to know you really want to do it. So today, people take gap years, and that's really good because you can find out, is this really what I want to spend my life doing? And also, I meet young people and they're perhaps in their second year at university, and they say, well, you know, I actually made a mistake, but I can't change now. Well, that's the biggest mistake. Because if this is going to be the rest of your life, change now while you can, into a different, you know, different career path.

[Jane Goodall]

It's such a great lesson because I feel. I feel like there's two types of people growing up. Either there's the person similar to yourself, where you have this unwavering, undying love for something that you just know innately in your soul. Like, I have been called to do this. I want to do this. And then there are people who are a little lost or confused, and that is also a very normal path. And they have to find what they love and they have to find what they're passionate about. And I think a lot of times people in that category find themselves just trying to do things that other people are doing around them because, oh, well, my friend's doing this, maybe I will do it. And it's hard to just originally find what makes you happy. So I love that advice of, like, if you genuinely, to your core, know that this isn't what you want, well, first you need to just try it to know you don't want it and to go for it first. And then if you hate it.

[Henry]

Yep. And you know, there's another thing that some women really want to be homemakers, and yet it's getting so that they're despised. You want to stay at home and you want to cook and you want to look after your children instead of being out there having a career and, you know, standing up shoulder to shoulder with your male counterparts, well, that's wrong too, because if that makes you really happy, then your children will be happy. Your husband, if you have one, or your boyfriend or whoever probably will be happy. And happiness is so important. It's the king of Bhutan who made this happiness index. And it's fascinating to see that getting more and more money and more and more fame and more and more, you know, doesn't necessarily make people happy.

[Jane Goodall]

I think that's a very important topic that you just brought up that I think would be very helpful for people listening also about feeling like, you know, being a stay at home mom in a beautiful way. I think there's a lot of women who are now trailblazing in specific industries and that's obviously such an incredible accomplishment that women are even allowed to sit next to men in rooms now. But I also think that there is no doubt that being a mother is a full time job. And to not acknowledge the women who are fulfilled by that is also putting women down in a different capacity.

[Henry]

It is in a different way.

[Jane Goodall]

Yeah.

[Henry]

And you know, if we go back to the child, if the most important thing for the child is to be supported by 2, 3, 4 people who are consistently there, it doesn't have to be the biological mother. So I met the chief of a Latin American indigenous tribe and he said to me, he said, jane, we see our tribe as like an eagle. One wing is male, the other wing is female, and only when they're equal will the tribe fly high.

[Jane Goodall]

Jane, I just want to pause. I'm like, I wish everyone could hear that. That's incredible. And yet so many people don't believe that.

[Henry]

No they don't. And you know, thing is there are female characteristics and male characters. We all have both, but basically we need both. We need the sort of more dominating male characteristics to stand up to things in life that might knock us down, but we need the more nurturing role of the woman. We need both.

[Jane Goodall]

We do. And I feel like, especially in the like social and political climate right now the brute is being rewarded and people think that being tough and masculine and aggressive is the way to always go. And, and we always see the pendulum swing. Like once we've had enough of that, then we will go back to the nurturing. And if we were able to establish a more like coexisting life, then both things could be present at the same time. But I feel like we're going so far to one side that then we almost feel like we have to overcorrect and go to the other and it's exhausting.

[Henry]

But you know, it's so sad. I've lived long enough to see this pendulum swing moving towards, oh, we need more males. We need in this society, we need have, you know, a masculine society to deal with what we're going through. That's not right.

[Jane Goodall]

It's not. And I can't imagine the feeling it evokes in you to have watched women start to garner more rights, only for it to almost be taken away to the point that we're losing more than previous generations for us. Something I was thinking about with your career also is, you know, you talked about how there was no one really. It wasn't even a male dominated field. It wasn't a field. And so you were venturing into this unknown territory. Yes. Which is exciting and exhilarating. But I'm curious about the aspect of isolation, like in any form and time during your career where you're experiencing being alone in these pretty intense moments. Like did you feel lonely or were you just alone?

[Henry]

No, I've never felt lonely. And some of the happiest days of my life, I did eventually get a degree in Cambridge and then I went back to Gombe, you know, the chimp study. And I could spend hours and hours alone in the rainforest learning, yes, more about the chimpanzees, but also about this complex ecosystem where every plant and animal has a role to play and they're all interdependent. And what I discovered was that if you're out in a beautiful place with someone, someone you love or, you know, your family or something, then it's human beings in a beautiful environment. But When I was alone, there was. I wasn't. It was just I was part of that world, not separated from it by being a human in that world. It's hard to explain and it didn't happen that often, but when it did, it was a very basically spiritual experience.

[Jane Goodall]

Understandably. I'll never probably understand like the level that you're describing of being immersed in that world and being alone, but I think we can all relate on some level of if you do go watch a sunset by yourself and you're sitting in a canyon or your backyard and you're alone, and when you do things solo, there is like a deeper connection that you have. If you take a walk on the beach and there's no one there, if you're in water and you're alone, like there is. Being alone is. Has so much power because you're really forced to also like connect with all of your senses. But it's so rare, I believe that the recent generations are doing that because they've always got the phone and they have. Oh yes, yes, oh yes, that thing, that thing. Could you give any advice on how can young adults get more comfortable with being. Being alone?

[Henry]

I mean, are you alone if you're always on Facebook or Instagram or video games? Are you really alone? No, not really.

[Alex Cooper]

No.

[Jane Goodall]

Because I think something that I envy, honestly, and I'm sure there are going to be people listening to this, that it's almost like it can make people emotional is like the way that you talk about this, like genuine happiness and this connectivity you felt in your life to being at a place in time where you were so immersed in a world and completely disconnected from humanity and all those things that really bring just more crap to our lives and moments. Yes, it's beautiful to connect with humans, but we rarely are alone. I feel like there's a lot of young kids that feel like they're alone and they're laying in their bed, but then they're scrolling and they're watching other people and so they're just observing what other human beings are doing and what other people are feeling and talking about. And you're just not actually having to self reflect in any capacity. You're actually just like consuming an exorbitant amount of content that is then like shaping the next hour of your life. And then you're standing up and you feel depressed and you're curious as to why you don't feel fulfilled. And it's like because you just watched everyone else living and you just sat and consumed it for hours now. Go live your life. And I think that's what's so incredible about your story and your journey is how much you went and have lived and experienced and you love life. Can you share with me the moment that you obviously had this incredibly huge breakthrough discovery when you observed a chimpanzee using tools in the wild? What does that moment mean to you still to this day?

[Alex Cooper]

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[Jane Goodall]

Go through in life, right?

[Alex Cooper]

Like in college I was a little bit of a degenerate. Then I got out of college and.

[Jane Goodall]

I kept that going.

[Alex Cooper]

But then I became a serious podcaster.

[Jane Goodall]

And I was like okay, I have.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Jane Goodall]

You obviously had this incredibly huge breakthrough discovery when you observed a chimpanzee using tools in the wild. What does that moment mean to you still to this day?

[Henry]

Well, it was, you know, for the first four of my six months money, the chimps ran away. I mean, they just vanished into the forest. And I just had to learn from a distance with binoculars. And then one chimpanzee began to lose his fear and let me get a bit closer, and he had beautiful white hair on his chin. I called him David Graybeard. And on this day, I was walking through the forest and I saw him sitting on a termite mound. So he was pulling out this with termites hanging on and eating them. And sometimes he was picking leafy twigs, then he had to strip the leaves to make a tool. And the reason this was so exciting is that at that time, it was thought by Western science that only humans used and made tools. We were defined as man, of course, man, the toolmaker. And so when I wrote to my mentor, Louis Leakey, he was just so excited. And so as we're defined as man the toolmaker, he said, we must redefine tool, redefine man, or accept chimpanzees as humans. And that was when the National Geographic stepped in and said, well, Jane's money runs out, we'll continue to support her. And so then I could relax. And really, I got to know those chimpanzees almost like members of my family.

[Jane Goodall]

You have had so many moments in your career where you've had to walk into rooms and explain something that maybe people had never heard before where you're like, no, trust me, I saw it. This is what happened. And I think a lot of that takes, yes, having the truth on your side, but confidence to be able to walk into a room and do that. Like, do you have advice for women listening of how they can advocate for themselves in an intimidating work situation?

[Henry]

Well, I've been intimidated, don't worry. The first time I had to give a lecture, I thought I would die. And for the first time I know. It seemed forever. I couldn't even breathe, but nobody noticed. And so, basically, because I was so terrified of speaking in public, I practiced and I made a vow. I will never read a speech and I won't say, um. And, er. And if you listen, you find I very sound in the odd. But basically I don't. And so my advice to people is be sure of what you're going to say and if necessary, practice. Like, before every lecture, even if I've given the same one for the previous week, I always write down the points so my mind is totally focused. And always remember, you've given this speech before, but now you're talking to people who haven't heard it, so you've got to put the same enthusiasm.

[Jane Goodall]

I think there's a lot of people that are crippled with that anxiety of like, I can't, I can't, I can't. Like, where do you internally go when you need to push through in moments?

[Henry]

Well, I don't really know. That first time I did it because I had to do it Geographic. It was for the National Geographic. It was to 5,000 people in Constitution. Yes. And if I didn't, you know, the Geographic were paying for my field research. I had some students by then and I had to do it. So you do what you have to do, right? So I knew I had to do it. I practiced and I just felt I can't let. I can't let Leakey down. I can't let the Geographic down. So you just grit your teeth. It's a bit like going to the dentist. You don't really look forward to it, but you have to do it. You say to yourself, you know, I'll be really brave and it will be over.

[Jane Goodall]

That's so real, though, because then once it's over, you're like, oh, that wasn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be.

[Henry]

Well, I found I could do it, you see.

[Jane Goodall]

Can we talk about the National Geographic? You were on the COVID and the first cover you had, there was this intense focus.

[Alex Cooper]

First.

[Jane Goodall]

Well, it was obviously supposed to be about the work and your research, but there was an intense focus around you and how you looked and your body. What types of comments were people making about you?

[Henry]

Well, some of the jealous male scientists will say, well, you know, she's just got this notoriety and she's getting money from Geographic and they want her on the COVID And they wouldn't put her on the COVID if she didn't have nice legs. So if somebody said that today, they'd Be sued. Right. Back then, all I wanted was to get back to the chimps. So if my legs were getting me the money. Thank you, legs. And if you look at those covers, they were jolly nice legs.

[Jane Goodall]

Oh, my gosh. It's so typical, though, right? Like, try to discredit a woman because, well, she got there because of what she was wearing and her looks and blah, blah, blah.

[Alex Cooper]

Like, it's.

[Jane Goodall]

It's. It's actually like, the most obvious, weakest response to something. How do you think women can flip the script and use the way that people sexualize us and objectify us to our advantage?

[Henry]

Well, I don't know. I did it by accepting that, in a way, they were right. So thank you. Thank you for giving me this advantage. That's good to give me the money. But, you know, okay, I know that for me, it was a long time ago. It was a different era. It wouldn't work today. So all I can think of is, I don't know. I mean, you'd be better to give advice. What advice would you give?

[Jane Goodall]

I mean, it's hard because I think there's a line of, like, how far you lean into how much people sexualize us as women. And I think that there's going to innately be moments where you. Someone says something inappropriate to you at work, or a man is trying to discredit you because your work can't be that good. It's because you're hot and because people are giving you the position because of the way you look. I think a lot of it in what we're talking about, and it's kind of the theme of this episode, actually just comes back to, like, how are you internally good with yourself? And do you know your worth? Do you know your value? And are you capable of standing in a room? And as uncomfortable as comments can be, you leave and you don't feel like those knocked you down. If anything, you're able to take it, recognize the game that they're playing, but keep it moving because you're confident in what you bring to the table. And, yeah, you may also be very attractive. And that's okay.

[Henry]

That's another gift.

[Jane Goodall]

There we go.

[Alex Cooper]

Jane.

[Henry]

I've always got on super well with men, and nowadays they say, we're doing a photo, and they say, can I touch you? I'm thinking, yeah. I say, hug me if you like.

[Jane Goodall]

Give me a hug.

[Henry]

Mind you, women want to hug me too. That's fine. Anybody can hug me. I need hugs.

[Jane Goodall]

Okay, I'll give you a hug after this.

[Henry]

Okay.

[Jane Goodall]

Can we talk a little bit about relationships? You ended up marrying a photographer from National Geographic. Can you tell me the story of how you two met?

[Henry]

Well, after. After I was finding out exciting things about the chimps, and they were getting habituated to humans. The Geographic, obviously, you know, that's. They live on it. They wanted to make a film and they wanted good photographs. So they sent Hugo Van Loewyck. And I really didn't want him to come. I hadn't met him because I just wanted to be there with the chimps. You know, I didn't want anybody, and I was afraid they'd be scared of him and, you know, all my hard work would be undone. But as it was, he came. He loved animals. He'd always wanted to be out there with them. His route was photography, and we got on fine. And he, you know, it was thanks to his photos and film that everything I was saying about the chimps was corroborated. And so he really, really helped to share the knowledge that chimpanzees really are like us. They really do have gestures and postures the same as ours that mean the same thing.

[Jane Goodall]

I know that you kind of have said previously that you and your husband at the time drifted apart because your careers were moving in different directions. And I'm curious, like, how did you navigate? Because it's a very relatable topic, like navigating, deciding between work and relationships. Like, how did you do that?

[Henry]

Well, it ended gradually, and it ended because the Geographic stopped paying Hugo to come to Gombe. He had to go on with his career, and he got some money to do films on the Serengeti. And I couldn't leave Gombe. I had to stay. I mean, I was totally, you know, I couldn't leave Gombe. And so it slowly drifted apart and it was sad. And I think we did the right thing, but we kind of had to do it, you know, I definitely wish we could have carried on with that marriage because it was a good one.

[Jane Goodall]

Foreign.

[Unknown]

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[Alex Cooper]

Great.

[Jane Goodall]

Great.

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And I'm gonna wear.

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[Alex Cooper]

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[Jane Goodall]

Do you think is your favorite part of aging and getting older as a woman?

[Henry]

I don't think there's a favorite part of aging, quite honestly. But I suppose, okay, if you look at it philosophically, the longer you live, the more you learn. And I don't like a day that I don't learn something, even a little thing. And the other thing is, you know, when you get older, you learn. Well, I do. You learn more about what's going on in the rest of the world and how to interact with people and basically be nice. If you didn't get old, it would be nice.

[Jane Goodall]

Jane, we talked a little bit about earlier in the episode when we were talking just about how you really talk so much about hope and how important it is to have hope. And I think a lot of my listeners feel anxious and lost right now because of what is happening in the world. Like, do you have any message.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Jane Goodall]

Of how to stay hopeful?

[Henry]

Yes, I do. That's my job now. Okay, tell us my actual job. Okay, so I have my reasons for hope. Number one, I mentioned it's the young people. So this Roots and Shoots program began in 1991 with 12 high school students in Tanzania. It's now got members from kindergarten, very strong in university, everything in between. More and more young adults are forming groups. We even get groups in old people's homes. So it's broadened out and it's different from other programs because of learning. Everything's interrelated. Every group chooses. Well, the little ones can't choose, but once you get to middle school, they choose a project help people, A project help animals. A project help the environment. And they share this with each other. And once they roll up their sleeves, they work very hard because they chose the project and they're making a difference. They're planting trees, they're picking up trash. They're raising money to help refugees. They're volunteering in soup kitchens or animal shelters. And the main message of Roots and Shoots, which is for everybody, every day you live, you make an impact on the planet. And you have to choose what sort of impact you make. So all around the world now, in 75 countries, young people are changing the world. And once they know the problems, and that's important, but then you empower them to take action in ways that they choose. They just. They're just. I mean, I go around visiting them and they're so full of enthusiasm. And so, yes, we've got to create a world where their hope is viable. Next reason for hope is this extraordinary intellect that we have. And note, I don't call it intelligence, because if we were intelligent, we would not be destroying our home, our only home. And sadly, we haven't always used our intellect wisely. We've forgotten the indigenous wisdom of saying, how does this decision affect. Affect generations in the future? How does it affect me now? My family now, my next political campaign, the next shareholder meeting? We've gone into a materialistic, very often greedy society, and we need to change. But this Intellect is beginning to tell us what we need to do, how to do it. Creating alternative energy, for example.

[Jane Goodall]

I am so honored that I got to sit down with you today. You and the way that you look at life is so inspiring. And I think I will admit, like, I'm a businesswoman running around all day and I have meetings and I'm trying to do all these things. And it is very humbling, honestly, to sit with someone like you who has such a. The right understanding of what we should be prioritizing in life. And of course, everyone has different priorities of what will make them happy. But we have gotten so materialistic and we have gotten selfish and we have lost our way. And understandably, it's difficult because if you're a young woman sitting at home watching this right now, like, do you have that? It doesn't feel like there's much you can do. And I think today it's such a perfect example of like, but you can get involved and you can do something. Because something that stuck with me is like, these are people who are so happy and why are they happy? Because they're doing something good and they're giving back. We all know how it feels on the most vain level to, like, give a gift to someone. It's always better to give than receive because you're like, oh, my gosh. I feel that feeling can ignite something in future generations of coming together and making a difference because it is going to impact my children and then the next generation of children and so forth. So thank you so much for taking your time today. I know you were very busy and I'm just honored that I got to sit down with you. Jane, thank you so much.

[Henry]

I've had a great time talking to you and meeting Henry. Let's make Henry come and say goodbye. Where is he? Henry. Henry. Henry. There he is. Yes. Come and say goodbye. Henry, come and say goodbye. It's been so nice sharing all this time with you.

[Jane Goodall]

Oh, good boy.

[Alex Cooper]

Good boy.

[Henry]

Bye bye.

[Jane Goodall]

You like, Jane? Yes. Good boy, Henry. We did it.

[Alex Cooper]

Hi, Daddy gang, it is your father. I am so excited that Caller Daddy has officially joined the Sirius XM family. I cannot wait to talk to new guests and continue to share my crazy personal stories and experiences with you every single week. If you want to hear new episodes ad free, subscribe to SiriusXM podcasts on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Call her. Daddy is brought to you by Phyla Got acne? Blame c Acnes, a bacteria living rent free on your skin's microbiome Phyla's the first and only acne brand using phages, tiny probiotic bacterial killers that work deep in your pores. No side effects, no drama. Snag it at Sephora. Daddy Gang Phyla is so helpful for skin. I know for myself. I have had moments in my life where I have been so, so upset about my acne and it's always so hard to find something that actually works and is going to help you with your skin. So don't wait. Get to it. Daddy Gang Start phaging with phyla. Go to phyla.com that's P H Y L A and get 20 off with code daddy gang 20 call her daddy.

[Unknown]

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Need a cute outfit. Boom.

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[Alex Cooper]

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