Jessi Draper: Blackmail, Orgies & Escorts

Summary

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Call Her Daddy: Jessi Draper – Blackmail, Orgies & Escorts

Host: Alex Cooper
Guest: Jessi Draper
Date: March 25, 2026

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Overview

In this revealing and candid episode, Alex Cooper sits down with Jessi Draper, star of "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives," to discuss the explosive personal and cast drama surrounding the show, including recent abuse allegations, leaked videos, and her own tumultuous marriage and public divorce from Jordan. Jessi opens up about cycles of emotional abuse, blackmail, infidelity, and how the toxic dynamics within her relationship – and those on the show – have played out both on- and off-camera. The conversation also touches on personal healing, the impact of reality TV celebrity, and future plans post-divorce.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Fallout from Taylor Frankie Paul & Dakota Scandal

[04:11 - 14:39]

• Jessi addresses the recent breaking news involving her "Secret Lives" co-stars, including disturbing video footage of Taylor and Dakota's domestic dispute.
• The cast decided to halt filming for everyone's mental health after news began to leak and before all facts were known.
• Production was paused first by the network for the cast's protection; later, the cast themselves chose to halt filming as the situation escalated:
  • "We just thought, for everyone's mental health, let's take a beat and let's not film right now." – Jessi, [07:32]
• Jessi reflects on how difficult it is seeing her real friends suffer, vouching for Taylor's capacity for change but emphasizing the need for help and prioritizing children's wellbeing.

Notable Quotes

• “I don't like to judge someone in their darkest moment... I'll judge the mistake. And Taylor really has made a lot of changes, and that's what's so hard for me.” – Jessi, [05:21]

2. Impact on the Show & Group Dynamics

[07:28 - 12:29]

• Jessi explains the group's reaction to the leaks: immediate unity on pausing production, and a desire to address life as humans first, then TV stars.
• Clarifies the process and mutual decision-making between production and cast.
• Discusses shock at Dakota filing a new domestic violence report and speculation about Dakota leaking videos to TMZ:
  • "I don't know who it is, but if I had to guess, it's Dakota." – Jessi, [14:31]

3. Jessi’s Divorce Bombshell & Escalating Marital Issues

[16:13 - 29:19]

• Jessi reveals she discovered that Jordan filed for divorce via a text from TMZ, despite previously agreeing to notify their children together.
• Jordan filed quickly, allegedly to get ahead of Jessi’s Call Her Daddy appearance; she ended the marriage but he wanted to control the narrative.
• Reports surface of Jordan using money on escorts – Jessi confirms she received proof of this from an escort service (before filming season one):
  • “I do have proof and screenshots that ... he was trying to meet up with them. He got a hotel room, and I have all of that.” – Jessi, [18:33]
• Rumors of Jordan’s attendance at sex parties and possible involvement of other “Dad Talk” men.
• Jessi's realization that she was “protecting” Jordan publicly while being privately betrayed.
• Emotional abuse escalated to blackmail: Jordan threatened to release messages about Jessi’s kiss with Marciano to hurt her reputation and business.

Notable Quotes

• “He has a history of being emotionally abusive. And so I was like, I'm not gonna get into this.” – Jessi, [25:15]
• “He tracked me. He’s listened in on my cameras in my house... so I was like, I have to do things where he can’t look through my stuff.” – Jessi, [26:30]
• “He was blackmailing me with Marciano texts ... and anytime he was mad at me, he's like, I'm gonna post them. I'm gonna ruin your life.” – Jessi, [37:15]

4. Emotional Abuse, Self-Worth, and Leaving

[32:19 - 56:13]

• Jessi walks through the early days of her relationship, the rapid start, and how patterns of control and emotional abuse mirrored her first marriage.
• Details Jordan’s need for control, frequent criticism, and pressure to conform to traditional gender roles while benefiting from her financial support.
• Admits to losing a sense of self and suffering panic attacks during intimacy:
  • “My body has told me... your body keeps the score. My body was trying to tell me for, like, a whole year we're not safe.” – Jessi, [45:44]
• Explains the coping mechanisms developed (numbing, overworking, cosmetic surgery) as ways to handle constant stress and criticism.
• Describes the moment she realized she was in an abusive marriage, triggered by a conversation with her energy healer and voicing the truth aloud.
• Jessi voices regret about cosmetic procedures:
  • “I got my surgeries after season four and I looked back and I was like, I looked so good in season four. What was I thinking?” – Jessi, [55:32]

5. Infidelity, Blackmail, and the Cycle

[51:25 - 55:07]

• The show highlighted Jessi’s affair with Marciano; Jessi reframes it as a cry for help and a desperate attempt to escape.
• Jordan’s response was to stay and further control Jessi, weaponizing her infidelity while denying his own much more serious betrayals.
• Jordan admitted in therapy to emotionally abusive behavior, but meaningful change didn’t stick.
• “Having your partner blackmail you in that way ... the person that you love the most and should care about you the most, even though you hurt them, should never put you in a situation where you feel like you’re always walking on eggshells.” – Jessi, [39:15]

6. Divorce Logistics & Next Steps

[60:54 - 68:07]

• Jessi describes the final realization and moment of asking for divorce.
• She addresses the prenup: her businesses are protected, but alimony and child support are likely.
• The public and Internet response to her divorce has been overwhelmingly supportive, validating her decision.
• She voices hope for honest conversations with her children about the mistakes and lessons of her past.

7. Reflections, Healing, and Looking Forward

[70:39 - 74:26]

• Jessi admits that even now, she sometimes feels the urge to protect Jordan or doubts her choices – hallmarks of lingering trauma and manipulation.
• Expresses excitement (and nervousness) about dating for the first time in adulthood.
• Her friends, castmates, and even viewers are largely supportive, recognizing the courage it took to leave and wishing her happiness.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There is so much pain underneath the surface for Taylor... Seeing that video, and, yes, the child being involved is awful.” – Jessi Draper, [05:21]
• “In my marriage, it felt like Dakota was the other woman. Like, Dakota and Jordan are so in love...” – Jessi, [10:18]
• “Finding out about your divorce on TMZ... my heart sunk because ... we agreed to tell our children together before filing.” – Jessi, [16:39]
• “When season one dropped, I had an escort service reach out to me... so he's, you know, I... protected him through all the Marciano stuff, and he denied it to me...” – Jessi, [18:33]
• “I could tell my mom wasn't even shocked and she was hoping we would really just end...” – Alex, [44:01]
• “I have a text where he's like, you wanted this so you can leave.” – Jessi, [28:01]
• “Your body will tell you... My body was trying to tell me for like a whole year we're not safe.” – Jessi, [45:44]
• “You accept the love you think you deserve. And that's what happened to me.” – Jessi, [43:11]
• “I woke up one day and was like, it’s such a simple thought, but I was like, I can change this. I can change my life.” – Jessi, [62:01]
• “Kelsey Ballerini has a breakup album... I had to give him half... I resonate with that so much... all the hard work that I’ve done... and you just get to get a chunk of that.” – Jessi, [67:00]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:11] — Taylor/Dakota scandal & leaks
• [07:32] — Filming paused/unity among cast
• [14:31] — Speculation about Dakota leaking video
• [16:13] — Jessi learns of divorce filing via TMZ
• [18:33] — Confirmation of Jordan and escorts
• [26:30] — Jordan’s controlling/spy behaviors
• [37:15] — Blackmail over Marciano texts
• [43:11] — Accepting emotional abuse/family context
• [45:44] — Intimacy and body’s response to trauma
• [55:32] — Regret and meaning behind cosmetic surgeries
• [60:54] — Final moment of asking for divorce
• [67:00] — Feelings about financial settlement
• [70:39] — Speaking her truth on the podcast
• [73:18] — Dating after divorce

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Rapid Fire Round

[75:11 - 79:53]

• Uncertainty about a season four reunion; closest friendships are with Macy and Makila.
• No contact with Demi since S3 reunion; "Wish her happiness... not meant to be."
• Group chats: One includes Taylor, another without her – to coordinate film pause.
• Dad Talk: Jessi predicts it won’t survive; was always a point of tension and competition.
• Final message: “Remember that we are real people with real lives... you see this much of our life, it’s cut down, it’s edited... give people grace because we’re all going through it right now. Any woman that’s been in a situation like mine: you’re worthy and you’re enough and you can do it.” – Jessi, [79:31]

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Tone

The conversation is raw, deeply honest, occasionally humorous (particularly around orgy/escort rumors and reality TV absurdity), and ultimately empowering. Both Alex Cooper and Jessi strike a balance between validating the serious, traumatic nature of the events and holding on to hope for personal freedom, growth, and self-worth.

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Conclusion

This episode delivers an unfiltered window into the hidden realities behind the facade of reality television stardom – abusive dynamics, family turmoil, the power of community among women, and the courage required to reclaim one’s narrative and autonomy. Jessi Draper's story, as told here, will resonate with anyone grappling with toxic relationships and seeking the strength to rebuild.

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Transcript

[Alex Cooper]

All right, Daddy Gang. I have had this SiriusXM music channel for about a year now called Unwell Music. I pick all the songs, I play whatever the hell I want 247 so you already know the vibe. Disney hits, throwbacks. We've got Miley, Selena, Demi, Hillary, Justin, Britney, Rihanna. No more playlist fatigue or trying to decide what to listen to anymore. Father's got the ox and Father's got you. I have a special offer for you. Daddies get three months of Sirius XM free. Visit Sirius xm.com/unwell music to see offer details. Call Her Daddy Is brought to you by Pandora Jewelry. Celebrate your unique story with Pandora Jewelry. Crafted with meaning and exquisite artistry. Daddy Gang. From sparkling lab grown diamonds to personalize engravings and heartfelt charms, Pandora offers endless ways to express what's in your heart. Pandora's rings, bracelets and necklaces are so fun to mix, match, stack and style. I personally love an engraved piece. I think you know when I put

[Jesse Draper]

on jewelry I want it to mean something.

[Alex Cooper]

And so Matt has gotten me engraved jewelry before.

[Jesse Draper]

And that is the thing that I always look at and smile because it means something.

[Alex Cooper]

Every day is a chance to be love. Let Pandora Jewelry remind you that love starts with you. Shop in store or [e-mail] call her daddy is brought to you by Clorox Disinfecting Wipes. We all know how good it feels to refresh our space and sometimes a little spring cleaning. Pick me up with Clorox Disinfecting Wipes is the best way to get back on track. Let me just say she's quick, she's easy, she's Clorox Disinfecting Wipes plus the lemon scent. Oh my God. You know what it reminds me of? My mom. My mom used these in our home growing up. No doubt about it, our house smelled so incredibly clean and now I just have them in my house because it's tradition, right? My mom used it and naturally I use whatever my mother use.

[Jesse Draper]

It is the best.

[Alex Cooper]

Guys, a quick wipe down is one of the easiest ways to channel a little spring cleaning energy. The wipes are perfect also for multitasking. So you can just get back to your day to day with ease and with a better vibe. Thanks to Clorox, we can have spring cleaning and they can get us through it, right? We don't need to stress. Thank you Clorox. Okay, so shop Clorox Disinfecting wipes [e-mail] Clorox wipes call her Daddy is brought

[Jesse Draper]

to you by Uber Eats.

[Alex Cooper]

You already know Uber Eats delivers your late night cravings in your favorite restaurants. But now listen up, they are delivering something just as exciting.

[Jesse Draper]

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[Alex Cooper]

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[Jesse Draper]

Everything also is the same price as it is in store. You just basically save the time by not having to leave your couch or mid makeup. Order it so it's there by the time you have to finish your makeup.

[Alex Cooper]

This has been such a lifesaver for me.

[Jesse Draper]

I actually cannot explain it to you

[Alex Cooper]

guys, especially when I'm shooting Call Her

[Jesse Draper]

Daddy episodes outside of the studio and I'm like, oh my God, I forgot

[Alex Cooper]

this one makeup thing. No, no, totally fine.

[Jesse Draper]

Ubereats, Sephora, we're good to go. There are so many moving parts when we're on location also, and sometimes it gets super hectic and I'll forget my favorite lip liner and then everyone's like,

[Alex Cooper]

just use this one.

[Jesse Draper]

And I'm like, I won't look the way I want to look. I need that exact lip liner and only Sephora has it. So basically, instead of running around or settling on whatever left in my bag

[Alex Cooper]

or borrowing from someone, I can just open Uber Eats and get exactly what

[Jesse Draper]

I need right when I need it.

[Alex Cooper]

Order Sephora on Uber Eats today and get your glam delivered straight to your door. Check app for availability. Delivery fees may apply.

[Jesse Draper]

Hey guys, I just wanted to give some context before you watch the interview of when this episode was recorded. It is currently Friday, March 20th in the early afternoon and so much is happening with Secret Lives. So if any news breaks over the

[Alex Cooper]

weekend, we are not avoiding the topic.

[Jesse Draper]

It's just we already recorded the episode and we weren't privy to that information. So enjoy the episode. What is up Daddy gang?

[Alex Cooper]

It is your founding father, Alex Cooper

[Jesse Draper]

with Call Her Daddy. Jesse Draper.

[Alex Cooper]

Welcome to Call Her Daddy.

[Jesse Draper]

Thank you.

It has been such a crazy time for the Secret Lives of Mormon wives right now. Obviously there have been some really traumatic headlines and to be clear, you were booked to come on Call Her Daddy before any of the Taylor Frankie Paul news broke. Originally, the plan was to talk about your own journey and we are going to do that today. But we do need to acknowledge what's going on right now with your co stars, Taylor and Dakota. So last week a recent domestic violence report from February came to light. And as that news was breaking, then a disturbing video from a 2023 altercation between Taylor and Dakota was released.

Yeah.

And then two Hours later, Taylor's season of the Bachelorette was canceled. The footage is really hard to watch, especially because there is a child involved. I imagine this was really upsetting for all of the cast prior to the release. Did you know this video existed?

I did. Obviously, back in 2023, we knew what had happened, and we knew there was a video, but, like, we never saw it. It was like the police had had it, and they talked about it, and we all just were like, okay. I don't like to judge someone in their darkest moment. You know, like, I don't want to judge the person. I'll judge the mistake. And Taylor really has made a lot of changes, and that's what's so hard for me, is, like, this is my real friend, and she does have a really good heart, and I love her so much. Seeing that video, it's, like, so hard because it's just. There's so much pain underneath the surface for Taylor. And I tell her this all the time, that it's not who Taylor is. She got caught in a really bad cycle. And just seeing that video, and, yes, the child being involved is awful, and everyone involved, like, it's really hard. But Taylor's such a good person, and she's made some mistakes, and so is Dakota. And I'm not saying any of it's right, but I know Taylor is a person. And it's so easy to speculate about these people on a reality show. I think when you watch it, like, we're characters. We're not real people, but this is our real lives. And I've seen Taylor in her darkest moments, holding her, crying, like, I've. I've been there for her, so I know what goes on behind the scenes, and I just. I want this to be maybe a wakeup call for them, and let's get them help. Help and happy and move forward. And I believe people can come back from things like this. And I just want the kids to be safe and happy and healthy. That's all I really want for them right now.

I'm curious because, like, now seeing the footage, like, you said, like, you knew there was something, and. And people had read the reports, and obviously they came back from it. But seeing it, has it made you reevaluate the manner in which this relationship and everything has been handled to date with the two of them?

Yeah. I mean, we all knew it was a toxic cycle. Don't get me wrong. Like, you saw her in season four and how she was dealing with that, and us kind of being like, Taylor, what Are you doing? But no one knew the extent. And Taylor herself had. Had said to us, like, I didn't want to tell anyone the extent. And I think anyone in that situation knows that. Like, it's so easy just to be like, everything's fine. Like, I've been there too. So, yeah, none of us really need the extent. And now finding out all these details, it's been hard for sure.

How is this impacting the group as a whole right now?

So me and the girls, we did decide to stop filming when we found this out, because we were starting to hear things a little bit before it leaked, and we just didn't want to be filming and say the wrong thing on camera, not knowing the full story yet. And we didn't want to, like, have to process all this information for the first time and then also be speaking about it, you know, so we just thought, like, for everyone's mental health, let's take a beat and let's not film right now. And that's probably the best thing for everyone in this situation.

Yeah. Can you also clarify? Like, I. I know that we read that a decision at first was made by executives to pause filming the upcoming season of Secret Lives. That you're in the middle of filming, and then, yes, the cast did. So, like, what led to the first pausing?

So we had a first pause that was from production. And I think I have to say, like, everyone before I went on reality TV was like, be careful. Producers are slimy. That may be the case for some people. I genuinely love my production, like, their family love them. So production network, they have been incred. Credible to us. And they did. They paused things for a minute because I think they were like, whoa, like, we care about you guys as people. Then we picked back up.

And then just to clarify, like, was that when the initial recent domestic violence.

This was when we found out he filed a police report. So this was before it broke, though. So they were like, you know, for everyone's mental health, like, let's take a beat. And then when news broke, or actually like, a little bit before news broke, but we knew it probably was going to, us girls decided. So we went to production and the network and they were all so supportive, and they were like, we totally get it. You guys come first. They handled it so well. And because of that, I feel like we all felt comfortable being like, you know what? This is our real lives, and if we want this show to continue to be successful, we have to handle this the right way.

Were you shocked at all when you

[Alex Cooper]

heard he did file another domestic violence?

[Jesse Draper]

Yes. Because I'm sure there are situations in the past where he could have and didn't and same with her. So because of that, I was like, why now? You know? But I don't know the reason behind it. Everyone's kind of speculating on that. But I think maybe he had hit a limit. Maybe. I don't know. I genuinely have no idea.

When the cast then did make the decision, obviously, once you guys heard the video was going to come out.

Yeah.

Who, like, brought the girls together? Like, who was the person to raise this to you guys? Like, what was. What were those conversations like?

Honestly, it was us as a whole. We're on a group message, so we were just like, hey, let's jump on a zoom call. And we all got on a zoom call, and even Whitney was on it, even though she's not, like, in our lives every single day anymore. And we all just kind of talked about it as a whole, and we're like, hey, how's everyone feeling? Pulse check. How do you want to handle this? And we all were unanimously on the same page.

That's great that there were no disagreements.

No.

There is a screenshot going around social media where Taylor called Dakota many times in one night. And in the middle of that, Jordan called and spoke to Dakota. What do you know about that conversation?

I have to say that, like, in my marriage, it felt like Dakota was the other woman. Like, Dakota and Jordan are so in love, so that he was on the phone with Dakota all the time. So he was with him when he filed the police report. He went over to his house, and he was with him the whole time. And he, I think, has been in cahoots with Dakota throughout this whole thing.

In those heightened moments, how would you handle. Because at the time, this was your husband. Like, him being loyal to Dakota and you being loyal to Taylor.

That has been the struggle of my life the last two years. He's best friends with Dakota and best friends with Taylor. So it's really, really hard. Something ironic. Me and Taylor, our birthdays are a day apart. Dakotas and Jordan's are a day apart. So, like, same signs. And I'm a lot like Taylor. He's a lot like Dakota. It's so weird. So this dynamic has been tricky. I would hear things from Jordan and Dakota, and I would just kind of, like, take it with a grain of salt, and then I would hear things from Taylor. At the end of the day, my loyalties with Taylor, she's my friend, but it was hard because my Husband was in the middle of a lot of it.

And when you say the past two years, like, what, what was that shift? What changed in the past two years?

Just because we got really close with them two years ago when they were still together, and so we were, like, kind of couple. We're filming this show together, and then all of a sudden they break up. And then me and Jordan go through our thing last year and that, like, bonded. Dakota and Jordan even more, and then me and Taylor even more.

Do you have any idea what all this means for the next season of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives?

I don't know, because right now we're on a film pause. I, I, I feel like all of us right now are just trying to, like, be like, hey, we're human beings first, and let's figure that out, and then we'll get back to filming the show. Clearly, there's no shortage of drama in our lives, so if we get another season, it's gonna be good.

Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? Obviously, because of all of this coming out, like, if you did resume filming.

Yeah.

You're going to have to talk about all of this. Like, what do you think it would take for you to feel comfortable to start filming again?

I think now we're at a point where we're like, okay, the world knows, and, like, the info's out there. And so, you know, now we're good, and we can speak on the things we know, and we can talk about it in a real way rather than before. We were like, we don't even know if this is gonna get out. So we didn't know if we could even talk about it when we were filming. Now we can.

This is the first time in the history of the Bachelorette that the show was pulled right before the premiere.

Yeah.

What was your reaction when you found out?

I wasn't super surprised because I felt like there was a lot of discourse online that they probably needed to. But I have to say, I saw Taylor during that journey, and she was a different person. I genuinely feel like she needed to get away from Dakota. She stepped into, like, a really confident, amazing era. I saw her twice, and I was like, your aura is different. Your energy's different. And it was like the old Taylor again. So I, like, I'm so sad because I really wanted people to see that side of Taylor, and maybe one day they will, who knows? But I just felt like it was such a good experience for her, and I'm really sad because it was very wholesome and dramatic, but amazing.

So did you have a heads up or did you find out when the news broke?

No, I found out when the news broke. Yeah. I was literally. I was dancing with Sasha from Dancing with the Stars. We were doing a little dance lesson. My friend was with us, and she goes pause. Breaking news. And I was like, what?

So, yeah, and when that happens, you just immediately go to the group chat like, what were all the other.

Taylor was calling me, so I had had two missed calls from her, and I was like, oh. So I, like, answered. And she was just like, how are you? The thing about Taylor is she's always checked. Like, she's. She has her own going on. So sometimes she's, like, not very present, but she does care about her friends. So she was like, how are you doing? I just heard. And I was like, how are you doing?

So how is she doing?

I actually talked to her right before I came in here, and she seemed pretty positive today. And I think she knows that this is going to be a long and scary journey. And the thing about Taylor, she always tells the truth. You know, she's known for that. And I think she's going to handle this in the best way possible. And I think she's taking a beat to figure that out. She's not just running to TMZ and leaking stories. So I think that's the right way to go about it.

Yeah, let's talk about that. Yeah. TMZ is having, like, the best week ever. Literally a renaissance. Like, TMZ is like, we are so back.

It's so true.

Obviously, there's a lot of speculation online that people close to Taylor have been leaking things to the press or people close to Dakota or Dakota himself. Like, have you heard anything about. And do you know of anyone leaking anything?

I don't know who it is, but if I had to guess, it's Dakota.

Do you think Dakota sold the video to tmz?

Yeah.

When you think about him selling that to tmz, why do you think he did it now? Because he's been holding on to that for three years.

It's. Everyone's speculating about the timing could be it. I definitely think that has something to do with it. I don't know if he was, like, holding it over her head for that long. Maybe they were doing that to each other. I have no clue. Like, the ins and outs, but I just think the timing is a little crazy.

So when is the last time you spoke to Dakota?

Probably two weeks ago. He was at my house a lot because of him and Jordan's Dynamic. So through all of this, he's actually been at my house quite often. Just, like, I. I was never, like, engaging, but he was, like, around Jordan. So, yeah, probably two weeks ago.

And how were those conversations?

I didn't hear a lot of them. I tried to stay out of it because I'm like, I'm Taylor's friend, you know? But Jordan and him love to gossip. I will say that.

Yeah. With everything that's come out in the past few days, do you think Mom Talk will survive this?

That is the only time that this phrase applies. And I actually don't know. We're falling apart over here.

I know. I think it's like, there's the Taylor and Dakota thing, which has been really hard because I think you're right. It's like we're seeing people online being like, this feels so beyond reality tv. Like, this is stuff that, like, we shouldn't be able to see this. Like, this is not something that we should be able to consume just so casually on the Internet. Pick up these videos. Then on top of that, like you just said, Taylor's asking you on the phone, girl, how are you doing? Because there's something serious going on in your life. Also, the news just broke that Jordan filed for divorce.

Yeah.

Can you set the record straight? Who ended things in the relationship?

So I actually found out that he filed through tmz. They texted me, and I was here in la, and I get a text, hey, we just saw Jordan filed for divorce. How are you doing? And I'm like. They're like, it's tmz. And I was like, I did end it with him, so I knew it was coming, but we had made an agreement to do it together, and he blindsided me and filed because he wanted the headline first.

Okay, hold on. Finding out about your divorce on tmz in that moment when you got that text, how did you feel?

My heart sunk because, A, we agreed to tell our children together before filing, and we haven't done that. Including his daughter, who's, like, 13 years old.

She found out through TMZ.

I don't know if he told her before, but we had made the agreement to, like, tell our kids together, and we didn't. And luckily, they're young, but just kind of like a betrayal, you know? And I had this huge packet of paperwork to fill out on, like, how to divide assets and furniture and cars and houses, and we had to fill it out to file. So he went ahead and just did all of that without me. So I have no idea what he put in there. He also did try. I found out from my lawyer this morning, he tried to put a clause on the divorce that I couldn't go on any podcast to talk about him. So, sorry, here we are. But I didn't sign anything. That would all have to be negotiated, and it was just what he wanted, but it's not going to happen.

What do you think he didn't want you to be able to speak about?

There's a lot.

Yeah, we're gonna get into it.

Yes, we will.

It is also reported that Jordan allegedly filed quickly on Thursday because he did find out that you were coming on Call Her Daddy. What are your thoughts on that?

I. I don't know for sure if he knew, but I think he either. I had told the cast, so the girls knew. And I'm like, did someone tell their husband? You know, got back to Jordan. But maybe he also just knew I was in LA and speculated, you know, but he was definitely trying to get ahead of something, which is ironic because I'm the one who ended it. I told him on Friday the 13th, so not that long ago, and I just said, I want a divorce. He definitely didn't want it. And now he's the one rushing to do it, which is a little strange.

We're gonna get into all of that. Of how you obviously told him. First, I need to acknowledge, because literally right before we just sat down, more news broke. It was reported that allegedly Jordan's been involved in some pretty shady behavior for years, including allegedly spending money on escorts with your money. What is your response to that?

So it's funny, because when he filed the divorce, I ended it. And it's, you know, irreconcilable differences is what we're saying. But he put in the papers that we ended it because I had an affair. And he's talking about Marciano, the person I kissed a year and a half ago. That's what he put as the reason. And I was like, what? We've worked through that. It's already been proven on TV that I didn't sleep with him. So crazy. But the ironic thing about that is I do have proof and screenshots that when season one dropped, I had an escort service reach out to me and they sent me screenshots of his phone number and messages, and he was trying to meet up with them. He got a hotel room, and I have all of that. And so he's, you know, I. I protected him through all the Marciano stuff, and he denied it to me when I Brought it to him, and he said, we're in Hollywood now. People are going to try to do this to tear us apart. It's probably AI, but it wasn't. It was real.

How did you find out it was real?

Someone messaged me, and she works for the escort service. And she called me and was like, I work for this. You can, like, look into it. She sent me so much proo. So.

So you can confirm by speaking to this woman that he was involved with escorts?

Yeah. And she sent the screenshots and his. It's his phone number. She wouldn't have known his phone number. Like, I. I literally have it.

And what kind of proof was she showing you?

Just the messages he had sent and his phone number being attached. Also, she said this happened while he was in Texas, and he was in Texas doing summer sales at the time. And this was before we filmed the show, so no one would have known that.

So do you know after that moment if he continued with. With other escorts?

I don't know. But I do know that literally, like, a month ago, my sister was out to dinner with her husband, and a friend of his came up to them, and he's like, hey, man, like, how are you doing? And then he's like, by the way, are Jesse and Jordan still married? And they were like, yeah, why? And he goes, I go to these parties, and he's always there. And especially when they had their daughter, he was there a lot. That was, like, the time he was, you know, being seen. So I don't. I don't have proof of those, but that's what I've heard.

When you hear that, like, where does your head go?

You know what's so messed up is my sister told me this, like, a few weeks ago, and she was like, I'm so sorry. Like, expecting me to cry. And I was like, you know what? This was, like, my final straw. Like, I needed to hear this to, like, be okay with, like, moving on.

Now looking back, I'm like, you did, in a form, protect him because you went through this whole scandal of kissing Marciano twice, which, by the way, I

kissed Marciano, like, two weeks after I found out about the escort stuff. And so I do think that influenced my decision. Not that it was okay, but I protected Jordan when that all came out.

Okay, wait, hold on. So you find out before season one about the escort?

Yeah.

You start filming season one?

No, we had filmed season one when it dropped. We were in New York, and he. I found out when it was like, live. Season one just came Out. We're in New York doing press, and that's when I found out.

And he completely denies the whole thing?

Yeah.

Then you get proof, and he continues to deny it.

I showed him the proof, and he was like, no. Like, they're gonna. They're gonna try to do this to us.

Then the Marciano thing happens, and two weeks later, why did you protect him?

Because he denied it. And at the time, I did believe him, where I was like, you know, like, I just. I think I was just putting my head in the sand, and I was like, I don't want to know anything. Like, it's fine. Like, I just really just tried to believe him. And then I did actually kiss someone. So then I felt so guilty. And when this came out, like, I just was like, I have to own it, because I did something wrong. I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to, like, deflect.

So when do you think you stopped believing him?

I think I always did believe it, deep down. But then after he. The way he reacted during the Marciano stuff made me question it, because you know how they say if someone else is hiding something, they're gonna accuse you of more? So I think that that's what made me realize is I'm like, are you hiding something? So you're, like, putting it all on me.

Okay, we're gonna get to the Marciano thing, because I want to go through all of that. But when it is alleged that he was using your money.

Yeah.

To pay for parties and for escorts.

Yeah.

Can you confirm that?

I mean, it's hard to say. At the. At the time of the escorts, he. He did work, so it could have been his. But when you're married, everything's both of yours. As of the last three years, everything has been my money. Like, he does not work. I provide everything. And so if anything's happened within the last three years, it had been my money for sure.

And when this site was saying that he was paying for parties, what. What kind of parties do you think he was paying for?

I have to believe they're orgies. Like, sex parties. I don't know what other kind of parties you would pay for. Like, you just go to a party, you know? So that's what I have to believe. I've actually never asked him about this. I've just heard about it. But the funny thing is, I heard through my sister, who heard from someone who was there, and now it's also being reported. So I'm like, clearly, there's some truth to it.

Do you think any other people in dad Talk were participating in these orgies?

I have not. No idea. That's. I actually haven't even thought about that possibility until now. I have no clue.

We're, like, back to season one of Swinging, but we're like, wait.

We're, like, taking it up a notch, you know?

Have you talked to any of the women about this?

I have only told Macy and Michaela.

What is their response?

They were like, he's disgusting. To be fair, everyone in my life, friends, family, employees, everyone hates him. Like, no one. When I got divorced, everyone I've told so far, it's been like, congratulations. Not one person has been like, I'm so sorry.

I was gonna say the entire Internet is like, thank God she's so.

Yeah.

How has that felt, seeing the public's response be so not only just positive to your divorce, but, like, grateful that you're removing yourself from this.

It was validating in a way, because I'm like, okay, I made the right decision. You know? Like, if everyone feels this way, there's got to be a reason, because I was a little bit in denial for a while. I will say, like, there is a part of me, like, he's getting ripped apart online right now, and I do feel bad. Like, people are, like, talking about his looks, his personality. He'll never date anyone again. And so, like, there is a part of me that, like, I'm like, I just, like, I. It's not that I chose to break up with him during that because of it, but the line, it just lined up that way. So I do feel guilty, but.

But do you think he actually won't date anyone ever again?

No.

Has he been seeing anyone since you guys have been separated in the past few?

Well, it's funny, because when I left him, he was, like, trying to be like, you're probably cheating on me again, you know, because that's his only thing he, you know, blames me about. But I was like, no, this is because I'm not in love with you. This isn't about anyone else. I want to be alone. But I do think he's been talking to people. I. I've heard that through the grapevine, so.

But now you can even see from your energy, you're like, I don't give a no. Like, literally, get away from me.

Yeah.

Have you been in touch with Jordan since he filed?

So he texted me, I think, because he knew the news was going to be coming out after I got the TMZ text, and he was like, by the way I filed, but I didn't know it was going to be public. And I was like, that's funny, because you gave him a statement. Like, you literally emailed TMZ what to say. So he was like, well, you know, I was advised that it was what was best for me. And I was just like, do not talk to me anymore. We will handle the kids through a third. He has a history of being emotionally abusive. And so I was like, I'm not gonna get into this. So we're. We're done here, and we're gonna handle the kids through someone else.

Is it true I heard you change your phone number?

Yeah. He has no clue what it is now. I had my old phone to communicate with him about the kids, but he doesn't know my new phone number. It's gonna be very separate now.

How did you decide that was the right decision for you?

Because he's spied on me in the past. Do you wanna hear a funny story?

Please.

You know Harry Jowsey?

Yes. Yes.

So we have the same birthday. So last May, this was when me and Jordan are separated. I responded to Harry's story, and I was like, oh, my gosh. Birthday twins. He, like, voice memos me, and you know how he talks. He's like, you naughty kitten. Whatever.

He's like, you naughty little possum.

That's what it was. He was like, how's your birthday going, naughty possum? And I was like, good. How's yours? He's like, great, I'm going on a hike. That's it. Okay. This is an Instagram. I'm in Europe. I get a call at 4am from Jordan. He's like, do you have to tell me something? And I was like, what do you mean? He went to the links. He hacked my Instagram while we're separated and created a fake phone number to then send himself the audios and then have the phone number say, dude, I think you should know about this. Your wife's cheating on you. So he accused me of cheating on him with Harry Jowsey, said it was someone else, and then I found out it was him. And that's all it was. The audios are so innocent. Like, it was just like, hey, how are you, Jesse?

That's insane.

So that's why I got a new phone number, because he has done stuff like that. He's tracked me. He's, like, listened in on my cameras in my house. So he's done stuff like that. So I was like, I have to, like, like, do things where he can't, like, look through my stuff.

How did you find out he was tracking you?

Well, he, like, has my location, but he, like, is very weird. If I ever turned it off, he's like, why did you turn off your location? Like, he's very strange about it.

[Alex Cooper]

And with the cameras and all that,

[Jesse Draper]

like, that is, like, a full safety issue.

Oh, yeah. Like, there were times I was on the phone during our separation that he would, like, repeat conversations back to me, and he's like, I listened in on the camera, and I'm like, oh. And now that he's at home, he's unplugged all the cameras, so I can't, like, do anything, you know? Like, I wouldn't try to anyway. But he's. He's calculated, like, what?

Yeah, you're like. You're the one paying for escorts. You're the one going to orgy parties. And then his paranoia is completely being projected onto you.

He gets to be the victim, you know?

And you're like, wait, how do you even think of this shit? It's like, because he's doing it himself.

Yes. Yep.

Are you still living together in that house?

No. So I left. When I left, I said, you know, we need to figure out what to do at the house. And he was like, well, you can stay in the spare bedroom of the house I paid for. And I was like, you know, I think I'm gonna leave because he does have a history of being emotionally abusive, and we have had really bad fights where I've also been really angry, you know, don't get me wrong. And I was like, I don't think it's good for us to live together right now. So I'm at a hotel again, and that's where I've been for the last week and a half.

But, Jesse, why are you always the person that has to leave the house when you are the sole provider? You paid for that house. Like, that's your house.

I mean, I have a text where he's like, you wanted this so you can leave. Like, he's. He's making me. But also he's like, well, you can stay in the spare bedroom if you want, but I don't feel right about living there with him. Also, he could spy on me if I'm at the house. He. He could have cameras that I don't know about. So I'm kind of like, I need to have that space and distance. But I'm gonna sell the house, and we're gonna each get our own place.

How are the kids doing?

They don't know yet. So that's the sad part about him leaking this before I did is I have no idea what they're thinking if. I don't know if you told them while I'm out of town without telling me. They're young. They're six and three, so they'll be okay.

[Alex Cooper]

You've been able to, like, FaceTime?

[Jesse Draper]

Yeah, I FaceTime them this morning. And it was funny because I was talking to Jagger, my son, and Jordan was like, kind of like snapping at him. And I was like, jordan, don't do that. And he goes, don't talk to me. And I was like, okay, so that's how this is gonna be. So it's kind of hostile between me and Jordan at the moment, but the kids are gonna be fine.

And so are the kids staying in the house with Jordan while you're in the hotel?

Yeah, I've tried. I've seen them a little bit where I'm like, hey, I'm gonna take them. And he's like, well, you can't take them overnight in a hotel. So he's trying to control me. But I've been to a lawyer, and we're gonna do a 50, 50 custody agreement. But I've provided for those kids their whole lives. Like, they want their mom. Like, they know who their mom is. And I. I know I'm a good parent. I know he's gonna try to mom shame me. That's gonna be his mo. But I know my kids. Kids are going to be just fine.

You're ready?

Yes.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Jesse Draper]

Do you hear me, Daddy gang?

[Alex Cooper]

Okay? That means snuggling up in a booth at your favorite dive bar, warming up in the crowd of an epic concert, or having your friends over to watch sports. Listen, seriously, the best winter nights are really just about doing something together. And guess what I'm going to be holding when I'm doing that?

[Jesse Draper]

A claw. Thank you, White claw.

[Alex Cooper]

I have stocked my entire drink fridge, my bevy fridge, with white claws, because I know it is a surefire way to have everyone getting whatever they want because you got all the flavors and then some. So, daddy gang, you know the drill. Pick up a pack from your your favorite local spot and grab life by the claw with your favorite flavor this winter. Please drink responsibly. Hard Seltzer with flavors. White Gloss Seltzer Works. Chicago, Illinois there's so much you just

[Jesse Draper]

said, and I know there's so much we've seen also on television, but I also know there's a lot that we haven't seen because there's so many cast members and there's only so much of your life that can be shown. So I do kind of want to go back and talk about your relationship because I want to eventually get to how you confronted him, that you said you wanted a divorce, what his reaction was. We're going to get into all that, but first, let's just unpack. Like, when you look back at the early days with Jordan, what was your relationship like in the very beginning days?

It was good. We met very quickly. I blame our dynamic on that, honestly, because I had been married before, so this is my second divorce, and I separated. So to put it into context, I separated from my first husband in September, and I got married in March. So it was really quick. Like, I. I think I leaned on him for emotional support. He was going through a breakup. So was I. And we just kind of connected and clicked. And I think that I had been treated really badly in my first marriage as well, which now looking back, I'm like, this is a pattern. Like, I get into these situations because I'm self conscious and I have issues. But he was there for me. So I think I just dove Right. In the first year was fine, though.

So would you say that first year you weren't arguing that much?

No. Yeah, it was pretty good. But I actually think that looking back, like, he's always been pretty controlling, and I think at the time, I was just, like, happy to be out of my last marriage. We had just had our son. Like, I was just kind of in a bubble. And then I started to notice patterns.

What would typically set off an argument between the two of you?

His control. I felt controlled in every aspect of my life. And he used to try to say, oh, I can't control you. You're not able to be controlled. I try, and I can't because I'm independent.

In those early days, what do you look back and be like, oh, that was fully control. And maybe I didn't see it at the time.

Oh, my God. I mean, it's just he tries to control every aspect of my life. My business, how I should run my business. He would mom shame me and, like, tell me how to parent, but then not do it himself. Like, if I left the fridge door open, you know, like that beep that happens, he would. I'd get yelled at. So to this day, when I hear like, a beep of the fridge, I'm like. Like, my body goes into fight orf flight. Like, it's just little things like that that add up. But also, like, I. Like, if I wanted to go to dinner with friends, like, it was like, well, what are you going to be home? What are you doing?

Where are you?

Like, just constant.

And was there any patterns when the arguments would start? Like, what do you look back on?

I think that's why our relationship got to a pretty bad place, is because I'm pretty, like, vocal and independent. So for the first year or two, I was just like, okay. And I think Jordan wants someone submissive. So I was kind of like that in the beginning. And then it started to get to this place where I'm like, no. And I would fight back. And so then it was just, like, really bad because I'm fighting back, and that makes it worse for him. And so we're just, like, going at it.

[Alex Cooper]

Are there any things that.

[Jesse Draper]

That he would, like, verbally criticize you for?

Everything. Everything. I remember being in therapy before, we were, like, in the public eye and being like, I need you to criticize me less. It's like 90 criticism and 10 compliments. Anything I did, like, how I ran my business, how I parented my time management, how I cleaned the house, like, every little thing Even like, how I would, like, dress and like, you know, things like that.

Like, what would he say about how you dress?

Like, that skirt's a little short. Are you gonna wear that? Like, like, you know, like, just stuff like that. So it just felt like I was constantly being dumped on. I will say there was. Right before we separated last year, before, like after the Marciano stuff, he had told me he wanted me to start doing Pilates every single day. Like, he told me that. And then he said, I think I believe in traditional gender roles and I want to be more in my masculine and I want you to be more in your feminine. And I was like, so, like just controlling areas like that as well. And I was like, do you know who you're married to?

That is like, so backwards. And also, like, I'm also just like, how, how crazy for him to also, like, physically expect you to.

Yeah.

Do Pilates every single day. Be the breadwinner, take care of the children, take care of him. Yeah. There's such an unrealistic expectation when he's not even raising himself to any capacity of that standard.

And to be fair, also, he doesn't work and we had a full time nanny, so, like, he wasn't even helping with the kids until nighttime time.

Was there anything that he expected to get approval over in your relationship from you?

Oh, yeah. I feel like everything. Like, it felt like I couldn't make a move without talking to Jordan about it, you know, like, I had to get his advice, his opinion. Like, but the thing is, I never wanted to confide in him either because he's, he's not someone that is like, yes, like, let me help you feel better and like, give you advice in a logical way. It's always like, putting me down while he's giving me advice and like, playing devil's advocate but telling me what I did wrong.

And how would he justify that to you or try to justify it?

He's like, I just know things. Like, I'm really like, I, I, I'm smart in these areas. Like, you should listen to me. Like, look at all the mistakes you've made. Look at all the friends you've lost. You need to listen to me. So. Yeah. And now that I'm saying these out loud, I'm like, this is weird.

No, no, it's not.

It's.

First of all, do not feel weird or shame or embarrassed. Like, I think so many women relate to this. It's more I'm cringing at him because of, like, the self righteousness that these men have over women. When again, it's like, you're home, you're the breadwinner. You're the one that's working. You're the one that was on mom talk. We will get to dad talk. Don't worry. Can you explain, though? Like, what did a conflict, like, actually look like between the two of you? You're in the house, you're going through this dynamic. Like, what was that like the last five years?

We have not. We've thought every single day, every single day. Like, imagine being in that with your partner who you're supposed to like, like, trust the most. I would say the worst it got. And actually why I separated from him last year is because this was the Pilates conversation. He. It got to a point where he was blackmailing me with Marciano text. And he had them on a draft on his phone on Tick Tock. And anytime he was mad at me, he's like, I'm gonna post them. I'm gonna ruin your life. So we were fighting over this Pilates stuff, and he was like, I'm gonna. I'm post the Tick Tocks. And so I went to go grab his phone. I was like, jordan, no. Like, at the point. At this point, no one knew about what I had done. And I was like, you're gonna ruin my life. Like, Lola and my business, too. Like, people like this could ruin everything. And he goes. So he's like, okay. And I'm freaking out, so I'm, like, trying to get his phone. I'm, like, kind of chasing him, trying to get it. He pulls out his phone, starts recording me, and he's like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? Are you going to be like, taylor, should I call the cops? And I was like, whoa. Because he's friends with Dakota, so he's, like, hearing things like that, obviously. And so he's baiting me, and he's trying to be like, oh. Oh, what are you doing? And that was the moment where, for me, I was like, what am I doing? I am chasing around my husband trying to get his phone so he doesn't blackmail me. This is not healthy. And I literally left him the next day. I was like, this can't happen anymore.

I mean, you're, like, a complete prisoner in your own home where you're like. From what I understand, he decided to stay with you after that information.

There was not even a second where he, like, didn't.

So, yeah, and then he continues to use this information as blackmail to further control you in the Relationship.

Yes.

Knowing that this cycle is going to continue because you're going to feel like shit because you do feel guilty about what you did.

Yeah.

Also now having the information that you did know about the escorts that he completely gaslit you into believing didn't exist when now we know that actually was the case.

Yeah.

And he was the first person to step outside of the marriage.

Yep.

And then you. I'm not saying what you did was okay, but you kiss this man twice, you do not sleep with him, and this man is then blackmailing you into just fearing for your career and your reputation. That's horrible.

It is. And, like, I should have done what I did. I regret it so much. I just want to make that so clear, like, for my kids to, like, have to hear about that one day. I want to take full responsibility. Like, of course. But I will say that, like, having your partner blackmail you in that way, it was something I can. I could never get over. Even after we got back together and went through therapy. Like, the person that you love the most and should care about you the most, even though you hurt them, should never put you in a situation where you feel like inside you never. Like, you're walking on eggshells. And you never know if your life's about to be ruined. And they have that power over you. So that was honestly, like, something that really ruined us. And. Yeah, it was. It was traumatizing.

It's traumatizing and it's really sick because it's like, he's getting off.

Yeah.

On enjoying watching, you have to be beholden to him.

The control completely.

When you look back at from beginning days to then, obviously now you can see, like, the clear delineation between, like, whether it was like, oh, this is not the best relations. Like, this is emotional abuse.

Yeah.

Did it feel in the beginning when those really big fights started, like, okay, maybe this is just, like, normal relationship struggles. Or from the beginning, did you start to immediately be like, this is unhealthy. How do I get out?

So my first marriage was pretty emotionally abusive. Like, worse than this one. And I again got married so quickly that I didn't have time to heal from that. So I think I attracted the same type of person without, like, realizing. And. And I think in my head, I was justifying it because I'm like, no, Jordan saved me from my other marriage. Like, he's my savior. Like, that's how I saw him. Like, he saved me from this dynamic. So there's no way he's doing this to me. And then over time, like, same patterns of what I saw before in my past relationship, like, arised. And I was like, oh. But I had never said out loud to anyone. My friends and families. My friends and family were aware. They knew that he didn't treat me well. No one liked him. They would bring it up to me, but I would just kind of be like, that's Jordan. But then. And in season four, you see my energy healer, she actually, I was doing a session with her and this was the same night of that Pilates fight, actually. And she. I sat down and she goes, are you safe? And I was like, what do you mean? She goes, I just have a feeling I need to ask you. And I just. I told her everything. And it was the first time I said it out loud. And that was like the moment also that I was like, I have to leave him. And that's why we separated last year. Because I'm like, as I'm saying out loud, she goes, jesse, this is emotional abuse. And I never, like, it didn't click to me until in that moment. Moment.

How did it change for you after you said it out loud?

It was like a weight had fallen off where I was like. And it was almost like something clicked and I was, like, seeing it clearly for the first time and I was like, oh. Like, I just kind of like, was like, that's Jordan's personality. Like, this is. Marriage is hard, you know, like, which it is. But that's how I justified it. But when she literally. I had someone saying, this is emotional abuse. And then I started opening up to my friends and family, and they were like, jesse, this isn't normal. It felt like the glass had shattered.

Well, and just to also validate any woman who is going through this, it's like so many people can be like, oh, my God, is there a pattern? Like, you went through this in your first marriage? Since the second, it's like, of course there's a pattern, because it's so hard to break out of. It's familiar. It's something that you get used to. It's like you've been beaten down and you're. You're sitting there and your self worth is depleted and you're not feeling good about yourself. So then you find someone like, like a Jordan who, like, emotional abuse does not just start day one. No, it's like it is this very, very crazy, like, confusing masked thing that you can't. It's not tangible. You can't see it. And. And so it's psychological. And when it's so embedded psychologically, there is also something within you that is willing to be like, but maybe I am not worthy. And this is maybe what I am going through. And so like, maybe I deserve this or maybe this is, is normal because if you've only lived seeing that. And like, I don't know much about your upbringing, but like, did you have like a good representation of, you know, love in your life?

Yeah, I have the best family. So that's what's crazy is like my parents, my sisters, like, best family in the world. Which by way my sisters love you and like, they're so excited I'm here. But no, I have the best family. I think it was like childhood wounds of like not feeling good enough with other friends and, and you know, things like that. And then I got into things where I didn't feel good enough already and then I got into that and it was like 10 times worse. And you're right, it's familiar. So I looked for the same person subconsciously because it's what I was used to. And that quote is so, like old, but it's so true of like, you accept the love you think you deserve. And that's what happened to me.

I think it was season three. I remember just feeling so bad for you and your family when your sisters were sitting on the ground. Your mom was there and you were like. I could tell my mom wasn't even shocked and she like, was like hoping we would really just end. It was when you guys were about to go into the 90 day break

[Alex Cooper]

and your sister was like, you haven't

[Jesse Draper]

been Jesse for so long and it was like this outcry to you. But also you could tell she was so aware, like she couldn't get to you. But she wanted you to know that like, she still remembered who you were without this abuse. And like she knew you were going to come back to yourself one day. And it takes you being it, like it. No one can get you out of it but yourself. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up because I do feel like I've been a shell of myself in this relationship. And I used to tell that to Jordan. He's like, like, that's not true. Like, you have every right to make your own life. And I'm like, your partner affects you so much. Like they can influence every single thing about your life, your happiness. And I did lose myself and the people closest to me saw that.

Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what kind of romantic connection that you and Jordan were able to Maintain with each other while having this emotionally abusive relationship.

So our sex life was, like, pretty good for a while because, again, I hadn't really realized what was going on. I was just kind of hiding it. But I will say, since the separation and getting back together, my body has told me. I want women in this situation to know that, like, your body will tell you. I, like, anytime he tried to have sex with me, I would clam up. I would have panic attacks after, I would cry after. I didn't want him to touch me. Like, even if he was just, like, passing me, like, in the house and like, like, grabbed my arm or whatever. I was like, don't touch me. And I would say that to him. And he's like, what's wrong with you? But your body knows. So I just want, like, anyone in the situation, men or women, like, the. Everyone goes through it at some point. Not everyone, but people have gone through it. Listen, your body knows, like, that book. Your body keeps the score. My body was trying to tell me for, like, a whole year we're not safe.

Of course you can't relax and enjoy yourself in an intimate setting with someone that you don't feel safe with.

Yes.

I also think there was such a highlight when we would watch the seasons on the success of your business and mom talk. Jordan did end up quitting his job so that he could help with the kids and that so he could film more initially. Were you guys aligned on that decision for him to quit his job?

Yes, because at the time he quit, we had just had our daughter, so she was a newborn. We had our toddler as well, and he was traveling for work. So he was in Texas, California, like, all over the place. And I was like, I can't run a business start to film this show and raise two kids. So I did initiate that. I was like, I need you to, like. But I did say, I need you to find something here. I thought he was still gonna work. He just took that as, I'm gonna quit. And we were. I was making good money, so, like, he didn't need to work. But looking back, I'm like, I should have, like, had him help out with the kids more, though. Like, there was. He got to golf all day, you know.

How do you think becoming the sole provider of the family impacted your relationship long term? Term?

I think that for me, in the future, like, I am totally fine being that person. I'll probably always make the most money. But I do want a guy that has, like, passions and, like, something of his own. It doesn't matter how much money he makes. But I will say with Jordan, since he believes in like the traditional gender roles, I think he really loved the lifestyle I provided, but he had a really hard time being like, I'm not the man, I'm not the provider, which is such a Mormon, like, toxic way of thinking. All the men, like, look at the men in our group, Like a lot of them had those issues. So I think he was very like, like intimidated by it. But he also liked having the money. So. Right.

It's like his ego, once the door opened and it was public, couldn't take it. But behind the scenes he's like, I love this. I'm golfing.

Exactly. He has so many.

Someone checks him, he's like embarrassed and can't take it.

Yes.

Did he ever start to make any comments to you negatively about how being a stay at home dad made him feel?

Oh, he just told me from the beginning. He said, I believe in gender roles. And not from the beginning, but like when he quit his job. Sorry. He goes, I was, I'm just, you know, I'm not meant to be that role. And he would mom shame me a lot. Like, the kids need their mom. You're gone a lot. And so I can't fill that role. Like, I'm the dad and I'm not meant to be a stay at home dad. I don't want to do that. So it was hard for me because I'm like, I want a partner that if I do have to work and travel for that job, I can trust that, like, the dad wants to be with the kids. Like, this is a partnership. You're not a babysitter. You chose to have these children. Right.

It's not. Well, it's also just so unfair. It's like he's getting to enjoy all the spoils of your hard work. But then he's also like, and you have to do all the stuff that I'm also not really doing that I should be doing because I gotta go golf. I got a tea time at 8am, babe. And you're like, do you know how

many times I've heard that sentence?

And you're like, there's no way. Yes. There's no way. It's so bad. Eventually Jordan did. I don't even want to say return to work. Kind of through dad talk.

Yes.

What was your initial reaction to that?

That so at first the dads got together to like make funny videos to make fun of us. So we were like, this is hilarious. I don't think we ever thought it was gonna turn into what they tried to make it. As time went on, I was like, okay, this is, like, cringy. Like, I don't like this. And it became a thing with me and Jordan where it was, like, competitive. Like, we were competing. Like, you got this opportunity, you got this many followers, you got this many views. Look what I got. Like, he. He became very competitive with it, and I was like, this is gross. Like, men should not be acting this way in a relationship where it's like, you're threatened by, like, my success that pays our bills. So it turned into a really hostile thing for us.

Did you talk about this with the other women? Like, did they feel this also? Like, I'm cringing from dad talk.

Oh, all of us, yes. Like, we all made fun of it. We're like, what is happening? And it's hard because everyone. The audience is always like, less dad talk. And we're like, we agree. But also, they're in our lives, and this is about our lives. So it's really hard to, like, not have them around. But now for me, it'll be easier.

No, that's a good point. I. I remember he said, dad talk doesn't need to be in mom talks shadows. But first of all, there wouldn't be a dad talk if there wasn't mom talk. And everything that you guys have built. Did you feel like he was riding on your coattails?

1,000%. I mean, any brand deal that he got was because of me. We had to do them together. He maybe. Maybe has gotten one or two on his own. But, like, we did one with Cafe Rio. We had to do it together, you know, so everything was tied to me. And so. And even, like, he's on cameo, and he'll try to be like, come say hi in this cameo, you know?

Know. So it's like you're getting used, and you're like, if it really is your own thing, then do it as your own thing. Don't have to involve me, because then it should just be. It's. Then it's getting my money. Yeah, exactly.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Jesse Draper]

Yeah.

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[Jesse Draper]

Going back to the affair, I think that obviously now even just sitting here, like, I'm trying to rack my brain because I obviously didn't know that the escorts came before Marciano. So I'm sure everyone's watching this and we're all like, the meme of the woman, like, doing the math. I'm like, hold on. Like, it really changes so much because I'm. Now I'm sure people are going to go back and. And clip things of, like, the way he acted and how he was so upset with you and the betrayal, which was so fair. But now I'm like, oh, my God, he was such a liar. Like, he was the. He was what? Like, yeah, when you look back, you said that that moment was essentially a cry for help when you stepped outside of the marriage. What did you mean by that?

So I felt so trapped in that marriage, you know, Like, I couldn't do anything right. I was so beaten down emotionally, and I was just so unhappy, deeply unhappy in what I was in. But I felt trapped. Like, not only with, like, my money and my business, like you saw in season four, but also just. He made me feel like I couldn't leave and so. And for my kids, too. So I was just really, really upset. And I met Marciano and it was the first person who was, like, nice to me and told me I was cool and pretty and fun and, like, that I was worth something. And I just remember being like, oh, like, this is how a man should talk to you. And not that it's okay what I did by any means, but I do feel like I was like, I'm gonna. I remember thinking, like, if I do this tonight, just kissing him, by the way, it will give me a reason to be done. Like, it'll give Jordan a reason to leave me. Like, I can be free.

And so in A way it was like you were looking for an out. You were almost like kind of trying to self sabotage.

Yes. Even if it was me that like did the bad thing, I was like, maybe this could end it.

And when then you guys went on that 90 day break and you did decide, decide to stay together, what was fueling you to not just walk away?

I was so scared. And that's how I felt the last year, to be honest. But I was scared of being alone. I was scared of hurting him. I was scared of the unknown and the kids. Like, I've been divorced before and it sucked. And this time I have kids, so I'm like, I don't want to go through that and put my family through it with the business and the prenup and all that. There was just so much weighing on me with that. So I was just scared. I was really, really scared.

In that time, obviously we saw some stuff on camera, but, like, what conversations with this affair coming to light, did it force you to have with Jordan? Like, was there anything you were able to admit about the relationship that you had been previously too scared to say?

He had been well aware of how I felt about, like the emotional abuse and all that, but he never acknowledged it until the affair came out and it was public and we started going to therapy during our separation. And in therapy, he finally admitted, like, I do know I got you to this place. I am the instigator in this. I started this cycle. And it was emotional abuse. He has said all of those words to me, to me. He may deny it now, but he has said all of that, but he had never said that before.

Okay, so that gives a little bit of clarity of why you would be like, okay, maybe there is some path to moving forward. Like someone saying, like, I see that this was emotional abuse. I see I got you here. Like, I'm willing to change.

Yeah, why not give it a shot, right?

Having kids with someone, you're like, whoa. Because most people, you'd expect them to never admit that. And of course it wasn't on camera, but like.

And I will say, the last year, Jordan has made some changes. Like, he's really tried in a lot of areas. But I think for me it was like, you're trying and you are making changes, but it's. I'm still not in love with you. And at the end of the day, like, you do deserve to be loved, the way that works for you. And same with me. And if you're gonna make these changes, great for yourself. But it doesn't work for me, but I gave it my all and I had that year to really try. And I don't regret it now because I. I did everything I could.

You can genuinely say and look at your kids and be like, I tried.

Yes.

Something that is a byproduct of being in a toxic situation or an abusive situation is the way that it impacts your self image and your self worth.

Yeah.

You posted a really vulnerable TikTok where you opened it up about regretting some of the cosmetic procedures that you've done recently. Why was that something you decided to share?

Because I do get a lot of hate for what I get done and I didn't want everyone watching thinking that I just, like, wanted to look this way or I wanted this. Like, it didn't go the way I planned. And so I wanted to talk about it. But it also has made me realize, like, I got my surgeries after season four and I looked back and I was like, I looked so good in season four. What was I thinking? And I never would have been able to say that before, but it gave me, like, clearer perspective of, like, I don't need to get all this work done. But I think I was in two marriages where, like, I had two husbands who treated me so badly that I was like, that was the only thing I could control. And that may sound weird, but it was like, I can't do anything else right. So, like, I can control my appearance. And I think it became a coping mechanism for me.

To have the ability to control something in your life when everything else is chaos is a way that we in our heads cope and survive. But I think obviously sometimes then it can be at the detriment of ourselves. We just don't see it in the moment. What do you think is your biggest regret when it came to those procedures?

So I got one surgery, like, three months ago, and that was. Was I just shouldn't have done any of it. I got an upper and lower bluff and then some fat grafting in the face, but I didn't want the fat grafting. I just kind of said, like, I just wanted the eyes. And he was like, well, you need this to balance it out. And I was like, okay. Like, I just kind of listened to what I was told. And looking back, I'm like, I didn't need that or want that. So I just wish that I would have not done any of it because I didn't need it, you know?

No. And I can imagine, like, even you saying, like, now you're getting to this place where you're watching season four, and you're like, what.

[Alex Cooper]

What the.

[Jesse Draper]

Like, I looked great. Yeah, you look great now.

Thank you.

Don't be that hard on yourself. But I get it. It's more of, like, an internal thing of, like, watching yourself drive yourself to a point where you're thinking something's gonna solve something.

Yes.

And really, that's not the solve. You could continue to get work done. That's not really the issue.

Yeah.

Throughout season four, all of the women were so vocal about how much they disliked Jordan. Like, it was. Was every scene, it felt like. Right. What do you think overall was their biggest issue with him?

The way he treated me, for sure. They saw things, they heard things, and just the way he's kind of demeaning to women. And he would talk badly about my friends, which is so weird to be like, my husband's talking on my best friend. Like, what do I do? Like that it was such a hard position to be in. And he's a big mouth, and he would tell people things and kind of exaggerate things. You kind of see that play out. But I think those issues were what everyone struggled with. With.

Well, yeah. I almost think there's, like, a thing with men where you're like, okay, women, we can, like, gossip.

Like, it's not for boys.

Like, literally, this is a woman's game. Like, stop gossiping and stirring. Like, you need to get out. Like, this is a woman's field. Okay. Also, influencing is also our area.

Thank you. That is how I feel. Like, it's icky. Like, stop.

No, that makes sense, because I think. And also, seeing their distaste for him, I felt. Yeah. It just felt really palpable where it couldn't be escaped. I also thought that what was really hard. I remember it was episode one, where you walk in and you have this overnight bag.

Yeah.

And what was so sad, Jesse, was, like, the fact that your friends, like, know the exact bag that you usually carry. If you'd spent the night at the hotel and you didn't sleep at your home, like, it was that obvious to them. Because it clearly was. That clearly, like, occurring quite often. Yeah, I just, like. I guess. Guess when you would show up to those events and he would be there and you would have your bag, like, and you would have to put on a brave face when you look back. Like, is there anything you wish you could have done differently in those moments for yourself?

Oh, my gosh. I'm so glad you asked this, because something I've realized throughout all this is I Have gotten very good at stuffing my emotions down. And, like, I'm here because, you know, now the show, I have so many things I have to do. I have to be on camera. But before that, I was teaching hair classes, and I was running a business, so I get in huge fights with Jordan, and then I have to turn it on and go teach hundreds of people and be there for my employees. And I literally had to learn that as a coping mechanism to the point where it's really hard for me to cry now, and it's really hard for me to face my emotions and be vulnerable. The show has helped me. I watched season four, and I was like, oh, I cried more than I thought.

Okay, that's good.

It's progress. But, yeah, I'm very good at just being like, I'm totally fine. And I wish that I would have just taken more time to, like, look internally and be like, you're not okay, and it's okay to not be okay, and you don't have to put on a brave face. And I'm working on that in therapy now. But that.

No, it's. It's a great point. It's like, we watched it in that. That scene, but then you're right. You did cry this season. We watched you cry at your anniversary dinner.

Yeah.

Because you were concerned about the future of your relationship. And meanwhile, Jordan suggested renewing your vows.

Yeah.

How were you both on such different pages in that moment?

I mean, Jordan wanted this. You know, he wanted to stay. He wanted to make this work. So I think he was just grasping at straws, trying to be like, what can I do? And maybe he thought it was, like, romantic, but I was. I literally. I think you could see it, my body language. I'm like, that's. This isn't the time. Like, right. No, you can't even, like, like, it made me feel like he wasn't even listening to me.

You recently changed your last name.

Yeah.

For business purposes is how it was presented. And Jordan did not take it well. And he called you extremely selfish. Now that you are getting divorced, which we're about to get to, was it really for business purposes, or was that you consciously or subconsciously kind of taking that first step of.

Yeah. Yeah, it was an easy first step, almost. I definitely did it for business reasons because, like, my name's hard to say. Natikara is so hard to pronounce, so it made sense. I also have a family business. We're all Draper, so made sense. But I do think deep down, I was like, if this Ever happens, it'll be easier because everyone will know me as Jesse Draper already.

Do you think he kind of knew what was happening and that's why he was freaking out so much?

Oh, yeah, like completely. And he also, like, he. He likes to justify it this, but he was like. So when I met Marciano in the villa, we had all had a conversation at the villa about our names and how to spell them. And they were trying to figure out how to spell my last name. Everyone is a group. And I was like, well, my last. My other last name is Draper. Like, you can call me that instead. And so Marciano would call me that. So he was like, you're doing this because you want Marciano again. And he like completely flipped it into something like that. And I think that's why he, like, called me selfish 20 times and stuff like that.

What is the status of your relationship with Marciano?

Oh, I have not talked to him in almost a year. Year. Yeah, that's. That's done and over. Don't worry.

Okay, let's go to the divorce.

Yeah.

What was the actual moment you knew you needed. Okay, it's going to happen. I need this divorce.

So in the last year, I've told him actually a few different times I want to get divorced. But he always, like, calms me down. Give me a few days. Let's try to work on it. He's better for a few days and then it goes back. But what happened was I have been in limbo for a while and anyone that's lived in limbo knows it's excruciating. Where I'm like, I don't know if this is right or not. I literally woke up one day and I was like, it's such a simple thought, but I was like, I can change this. I can change my life. I can be happy. It's gonna be hard, but I can do this. And my life doesn't have to be this way. And it was like something flipped. And I was like, I'm done. And I could not go back after that. It was the weirdest thing.

Okay, so can you walk me through moment by moment of that day? Like, how did you tell him? How did. Where were you?

Okay, so this h. That feeling came to me on a Thursday and I told him on Friday. The next day I wasn't going to tell him till the weekend, cuz I was like, let's, you know, I'll get the kids out of the house and whatever. But on Friday, he came up to my room. I was getting ready in my closet. And he was like, I just talked to the kids therapist because we have him in therapy, and she thinks we need to start going together every week with them. And can you make that happen? And I was like, oh, I'm leaving you this weekend. Like, but I couldn't say that. So I was like, I just don't know if our. If our schedules are going to work. Like, it may work if you take them and I take them. And he was like, why? The kids are the most important thing, like, why? And I was like, I. I want to get divorced. I just said it. And he was like, okay. And his emotions were, like, calm, then mad. And then he kind of gaslit me and was like, you're not healed enough. That's why, like, you can't love yourself yet, so you need to figure that out first, and then you'll realize this isn't what you want. And then he was like, you know, you're cheating on me again. And I'm like. Like, it was all over the place, and I just had to be like, jordan, like, I need you to know I've thought about this every single day for the last four years, and this is. Is I'm choosing myself. And, you know, we fought a little bit, but he finally understood and. Yeah.

So then he finally understands. Does he leave the room and, like, do you just go about your day?

No, he's, like, still talking to me, and it kind of got to a point where he was like, gaslighting me and stuff. So I finally was like, this is how most of our fights are. I'm like, I'm leaving. I need you to stop. And he literally called me downstairs, and I had to, like, get in my car and drive off.

And then. Did you sleep in the house that night?

No, I have not been back since. I've been back to see the kids. I did sleep there one night, actually, but other than that, I've been at a hotel. Hotel.

How was sleeping there that one night?

So, okay, this is where actually, I think a lot of women will relate. So I was in a hotel and I had a girls night with my friends. This was maybe two days after I left, and we were drinking wine and just talking about it. I was, like, so sad, and I could not sleep that night. And at 4am I was like, I'm ubering home. I want to be with my kids. I want to be in my house. I just felt so, like, I didn't have a home. I was like, so misplaced. And I went home and I Just. I went into the bed and he was there, and I ended up having sex with him because he was like, just one more time. One more time. And I. I told him no probably 20 times. And I was like, okay, but if I do, this doesn't change anything. And he was like, it won't. It won't. And I did. But literally, I'm so glad I did, because after that moment, I was like, nope, never again. Never again. This was my answer.

You're like, I'm so repulsed by so many things happening right now.

And I was drunk and sad, and I just was like, I missed. Miss my family. And. But, yeah, it was a good closing of the chapter.

[Alex Cooper]

Damn.

[Jesse Draper]

Yeah.

And so the next morning, you wake up.

Yeah.

And do you just get more clothes and go back to the hotel?

And I never have been back since to sleep there.

How are you managing that with your kids?

So I will go over. So they go to school in the morning, and so he'll take them to school, and then I'll pick them up and then be with them in the evening, put them to bed, and then he'll come back and we just switch off. So I'm going to get a place soon where we can do 50. 50. But I just don't want to take them to a hotel.

Like, no, It'll be hard. And this house, obviously, like, do you. Do you think he's ready to get rid of this house?

Absolutely not. No.

But you're getting rid of it.

I. I think it's the best thing to do.

Can we talk about this prenup?

Yeah.

Because obviously season four, we watch you, and every woman is like, yeah, no, like, you make the money. How did this happen? Like, yeah. Can you explain where are you at with the prenup? Are you okay? Are you going to have to give him 50% of everything you own? Where are we?

So I went to lawyers who are amazing, and they were like, okay, it's actually valid. You don't need a witness signature as long as both of you have signed it, which we have. So thank God I don't have to give him anything for my businesses, but I will have to pay alimony and child support, most likely. And then I might have to do some sort of a payout. We haven't gotten there yet because he filed yesterday. So I actually don't know the details of that yet. But I do know, like, he can't take my business. Business or, you know, anything like that. So I'm happy about that.

So he. He does. He's not entitled to anything with your business. That's a complete separate entity.

Yes.

It existed before you met him. It will continue to exist, and he

never did anything to contribute to it, so.

Right. Oh, right. That's probably a clause. Like, how much did he contribute if

he was working there, maybe, you know, but no.

And when it comes to this, do you feel, like, at all resentful if there's gonna have to be a payout out?

A little bit. Kelsey Ballerini has a breakup album that I have been, like, so resonating with, and I think there was, like, a. Like, I had to give him half. There was, like, a lyric in there. And I resonate with that so much because I'm like, it sucks that, like, yes, I made mistakes in this relationship too, and he. He does deserve something. But all the hard work that I've done, I've built my business up from the ground, me and my family, and you just get to, like, get a chunk of that. Like, if I do have to do that. So because we have kids, I'm okay with it because I want them to have a dad who has some. Some stability. Yeah, some stuff. But, yeah, just. It sucks.

How do you feel, though? Because you referenced at the beginning of this episode, you said that he put in it was because of the cheating.

Yeah.

It wasn't irreconcilable differences.

Right.

Do you think that's going to be changed? Do you think you are? I mean, you could technically say he also cheated.

That's kind of why I'm willing to talk about it now. I mean, it did get, like, leaked, but because I was like, well, are you trying to get more money out of me? And that's the reason you did that? Well, I'm going to tell them what you did then. There should be no secrets if you're going to out me like that.

So how do you think he's going to react when he hears you talking about this?

Oh, he's going to hate this. And he's going to mom shame me and say I'm a bad mom for doing this. Which, by the way, I'm not, like, excited to go, like, expose this. Like, it does suck for our children. But I think as a mom, what I've had to come to. To terms with is that I will tell my children about my mistakes, my affair, my plastic surgery's gone wrong, this dynamic. I don't want my daughter to ever be treated the way I've been treated. And I just. I'm gonna be honest with them. And I think that it's okay to talk about this. Cause, A, we're on reality tv. We can't really hide from it. We can't have secrets when you're public. But B, like, I'm gonna teach this to my children and tell them what to avoid and what to change, you know, in their lives if this ever happens to them.

And I think that's the right way to approach it. Right. Like, that's all you can do is be honest. Yeah. Is he still denying the escorts?

I have no idea. I haven't actually talked to him about it in a while. Now that it's leaking, I may hear from him about it, but I've just. I haven't brought it up with him since.

It's going to be really interesting to see with the alleged orgies and the escorts. Like, are there other people in dad talk or that world that we're also partaking? Like, there's so much emphasis on you and. And especially just the women being these people, and. And we're so focused on their wrongdoing.

Yeah.

And it's like. Like, what have the men been up to?

No, literally, I do think the rest of the men are angels, like Jace, Jacob, Connor. Like, the sweetest man. I do not. I know. Absolutely not. I think that Jordan. It sounded like he was partaking in some of this when I was having Jovi, is what it sounds like. And that was before he had met any of those guys. I mean, you never know. But, like, I really think it was, like, how he's been for a while.

Okay. How do you think your divorce will impact mom talk and just the future filming in general?

That's a good question. Right now, I think we're all trying to survive, so we're like, let's not worry about cameras. Let's just get through this storm. But I think we are all excited to pick back up and just, like, continue to tell these stories. I mean, the fact that this is all happening while we're down, like, my divorce, I didn't plan that. But I think it also shows that I made it for the. Made this decision for the right reasons. Because Jordan would always tell me, like, you do things for the show. Like, you're just separating for me for the show. But I'm like, no, I did this with cameras down. So that shows you I'm serious.

None of that conversation was filmed.

Nothing. No.

And then he goes to tmz, and now you're here in long form, getting to tell your truth.

Yeah.

Wow. So now you. When cameras Pick back up. You're going to essentially have to, you

know, fill in the gaps.

Yeah, fill in the gaps.

And I'm sure if we pick back up soon too, like, more is gonna happen. This isn't over.

How does it feel to sit here and tell your story?

It feels surreal. You know what's so crazy is I, I in season four, I was like, I really want to go on call her daddy. I had said that and I was like, maybe I'll get two for season three because I just love you. But the timing wasn't right. It wasn't right and now it is.

Well, girl. Yeah, we were like, but now I'm getting divorced. So I guess this war I would

have come on six months ago and tried to protect him and been like, we're working through it wouldn't have been genuine. And now I get to be free and, like, tell my story. So it feels really cool. Good.

It is so sad. And also, like you said, healing of like, yes. There's been so much damage done from the relationship. Yes. The fact that you are now able to look back and be like, that was an emotionally abusive relationship. I don't want my children to ever go through something like that. I don't want to continue to go through something like that. I need to leave. I do think it's also a testament to people watching of like, how hard it is to leave something.

Oh, my gosh.

That is abusive. You just said, said, I've been thinking about this, Jordan, for four years. And when someone sits there and is like, but why didn't you leave? Like, go back to what we've talked about, the manipulation, the way the control, all the things, the fact that you just. A normal situation would be, I want a divorce. And they'd say, oh, my God. Well, okay, I get. It's like, no, you're not healed. You're not in your right mind. It's constant.

And I still have those thoughts now. I'm still like, even doing this. I'm like, he's going to be so mad. Do I need to protect him? Like, that's my inner voice right now.

How are you pushing through that and not self sabotaging and going back to him?

Well, he pissed me off yesterday by filing. So I'm like, I'm going to burn it down. Shouldn't have done that.

You're like, you know what? This is your doing. It is. I probably would have been a little bit.

He did try to tell me because I was like, I'm, I'm done talking to you. We have to work through a third party for the kids now. He goes, well, you did this. Just remember that you wanted this. And I'm like, I didn't go to tmz. You did this. You started this war. Right.

I wasn't gonna make it messy, but now if you're gonna go to tmz.

Yep. He started the online. Yep.

Okay. Dating.

Oh.

Like, what are you feeling? Are you going to take some time before you jump back in? Is there anyone that you'd be interested in that you have your eye on? Like, what are we feeling?

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jesse Draper]

I. Alex, I haven't dated since I was 20. Like, I got married at 21. Mary Jordan, right after. Like, I'm so nervous. Like, I'm like a giddy 15 year old. Like, I'm like, how do I date?

Like, I have no clue. Okay. You can't rush into anything.

That's my mistake. From last. I know. I'm so impulsive. You know me already.

I'm like, from the. For your first husband to then Jordan, you were like. And it's like, I get it. It's easier to not be alone at first because you're like, it's the comfort. And right now you're like, I don't want to sleep in a hotel. A room.

Yeah.

Like alone.

No, I know. Trust me, I know.

Jumping into something too quick.

Trust me, I won't.

I like, you can date.

No, I, I want to date. I want to like, not be tied down. I have my freedom back, so I don't want to like, jump into anything. Like, like, I. I'm sure I'll have guys I talk to and stuff. And like, that's where I need to like, be careful because I could like jump into something without realizing it, you know, but no, I want to like, go date and have fun and like, meet new people. I don't even know what my type is anymore. Like, who should I date?

I don't know. I know. And I think there's something really exciting about. I think the world will be really interested to see you single.

Yeah.

Not just because it's going to be fun for content of dating more. So if, like, what is Jesse like alone and in her power and in her mind of just like being confident and getting back to that place that like, we probably haven't been able to fully see on tv.

Oh my gosh. Chase from the show. I was talking to him because he's been divorced and he's been helping me through this and he said to me the other day, he was like, this is what you've accomplished, being held back. Like, this is going to be fucking scary to see what you can do. And I was like, you're right. Like, I could do anything.

Such a good point. Yes. I was like, I'm gonna run down.

[Sponsor Voice]

No.

[Jesse Draper]

Literally, yes.

And. But I've accomplished so much doing that. So I'm, like, excited to spread my wings and just be like, no, I can do whatever I want.

No, I'm really excited for you. And I think that even again, to see the Internet's reaction being like, thank God. Like, get out of here. Like, get rid of him. Let's go. Like, the whole season felt like we were just like, so you're getting a divorce or not?

Everyone's like, leave that man.

Oh.

The minute the show came out, I woke up to hundreds of comments of like, leave him, leave him. And I just, like, didn't tell Jordan. I'm sure he saw it, but I'm sure he saw. Yeah, but no, the fact that this is being celebrated. Miranda said that in the season, she's like, the fact that. Oh, also Miranda, like, shout out. Like, my friends, all of them, like, Michaela, Macy, Miranda, Layla, Taylor. Like, they have been there for me so much, I just want to give them a shout out. But Miranda told me, like, this is going to be celebrated. And it has. And it's like, been the craziest feeling

even when he's trying to play dirty.

Yep.

Okay, before we go, we have to do a little rapid fire.

All right.

From the season.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Jesse Draper]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Jesse Draper]

Will there be a season four reunion, you think?

Oh, my gosh. I actually have no idea. I don't know because we're on a pause now. It probably would have filmed soon. Maybe. Do people want it? I guess. Sound off.

Yes. Who in Mom Talk are you closest with right now?

Macy Makila. They're my best friends. I love them.

When was the last time you talked to Demi?

I haven't talked to Demi since the season three reunion. You guys saw it.

How do you feel about your relationship?

[Sponsor Voice]

Friendship?

[Jesse Draper]

So mean to me. It's been interesting. I wish her the best. I had a lot of issues with her and I don't think it was a friendship that was meant to last. But I do wish her happiness and if I have to see her again, I can be cordial, but it's just not meant to be.

Yeah, that makes sense. Has anyone heard from Ben since last season?

Stay tuned. Yeah.

Okay, who is currently in the group chat? Has anyone left? Left?

Oh, gosh, no. So, okay, sorry, Taylor, but we do have a group chat with Taylor and then we have one without her because of all this. But not talking badly, but how we were coordinating how to handle the film pause.

Of course.

But no, everyone's in it.

What was your opinion on Harry Josie coming to meet up with Mom Talk while everyone was in la?

Okay, well, first of all, me and Jordan were leading as he came in. So I was like. And Jordan hates Harry Jowsy because of me cheating. So I was like, jordan, don't say anything. So I was like kind of nervous but so glad we were leaving. Harry doesn't know this, by the way, and we talk a lot. So I'm sorry, Harry. Hey, Harry. But no, I watched watched that scene back and I was like, this is the best TV I've ever seen. The fact that he's like, I'm gonna

cry right now, and he's so overwhelmed.

It was iconic. I loved it.

Amazing. How do you feel about how the Unwell event and Macy's book event drama played out?

I felt so bad because I was so excited to do Unwell and we ended up plot twist doing it. So it worked out for the best. And Macy Makila came too, so it was great. But no, I had no idea because we had talked about me hosting her book event and then and well came up and she had text me being like, hey, I just need to Know which one you're doing. No big deal. So I didn't think it mattered. But then when I heard how sad she was, I was like, macy, Michaela been there for me through so much. I think you see me say that. And I was like, macy, I would never want you to think anything was more important than you. And it was an immediate, like, I'll do this.

What terms are Jen and Whitney currently on?

I don't think they're talking at the moment, but I do think that when a season comes out, you all self reflect a little bit. And I think that's happening, and I think they'll probably be able to get back to a good point place.

What was your reaction when Jen sent her husband in place to speak to Whitney?

It's just never a good move for the man to be the one to, like, yell at another woman. Like, even if Whitney was in the wrong, which I don't necessarily think she was like, him going at her. Just.

Yeah, okay. What do you think is the future of dad talk?

I think it'll be done. I don't think it can continue. I think the world has spoken and they're done.

Okay, last question. Is there anything else that you want to set the record straight on? Clear the air on whether it's with Jordan, whether it's with other people from the cast, rumors, whatever it be.

I mean, not specifically anything other than just like, remember that we are real people with real lives. And you see this much of our life, it's cut down, it's edited. We film a scene for four hours and you see four minutes, you know, so just remembering that there's always more to the story and give people grace because we're all going through it right now. And just any woman that's been in a situation like mine, like, you're. You're worthy and you're enough and you can do it.

Okay, I need you to now go find out about the orgies.

I know, literally, I'm going to hear about it once this drops.

I need to call you after. You need to, like, plug us back in and be like, so, what's the update on the orgies?

Do I need to hire, like, a PI?

Like, literally? Yeah, I'll hire for you.

I'll let you know.

I need.

He's going to deny it. I already know that.

But if it's orgies, there's many people there. And orgy parties.

Yeah, sounds like it.

I'll get your new number. Yeah, we'll figure it out.

Yeah, we'll figure it out.

Jesse, thank you so much for coming on. Call Her Daddy. I think like hearing your story again, I think like your story was such a testament to. Yes, there is not. We can't see everything on reality tv. There's so many different story lines. It can't all fit into certain episodes. And so also there's things that aren't given information. Right. We didn't have the information about Jordan. We didn't know about these escorts. We didn't know about the parties. To get that information now I think gives so much more clarity even not saying that what you did was correct with your affair, but it gives such more backstory to what was going on in your home that none of us were privy to. So I really wish you the best. I wish the whole cast the best. Again, I said this at the beginning but like this is heavy and, and some heavier than others and traumatizing. But I think, think I've met you. I've met Taylor, like I've met Whitney, I've met Connor. Like these are, you know, I, I've had such great interactions with you guys and I really hope that everyone can figure this out because I know people love the show but also like the show doesn't matter if everyone's mental health isn't okay and safety. So I think we're all just like hoping for the best for all of you and thank you so much for your time and thank you thinking of your kids and you during this time.

Thank you. Thank you for having me and letting me finally be free and speak my truth.

Girl, this time we did it.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Jesse Draper]

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[Alex Cooper]

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[Jesse Draper]

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[Sponsor Voice]

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