Kelsea Ballerini: Divorced at 29 (FBF)

Summary

Call Her Daddy Podcast Summary: "Kelsea Ballerini: Divorced at 29 (FBF)"

In this heartfelt and candid episode of Call Her Daddy, host Alex Cooper sits down with renowned country singer Kelsea Ballerini to delve deep into her personal journey of love, marriage, and divorce. The conversation offers listeners an intimate glimpse into Kelsea's experiences, the challenges she faced, and the profound lessons she learned along the way.

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1. Introduction and Early Relationship

The episode begins with Alex Cooper welcoming Kelsea Ballerini to the show. Kelsea reflects on her early relationship with her ex-husband, Morgan Evans.

• Meeting Morgan Evans

  • Timestamp [02:05]
  • Kelsea shares, “I was hosting an award show and he was my co-host... I just felt like the world was opening up for the first time for me.”
  • She describes their meeting as a "fairy tale moment" where everything seemed to align perfectly.

• First Impressions

  • Timestamp [03:20]
  • Kelsea was drawn to Morgan's "loving family that believes so much in unity and family," contrasting with her own "really broken family."

2. Engagement and Marriage

Their whirlwind romance led to a swift engagement and marriage, setting the stage for both joy and unforeseen challenges.

• Quick Engagement

  • Timestamp [08:32]
  • After nine months of knowing each other, Kelsea was surprised by Morgan's proposal, feeling that it was “balls to the wall” and completely in.

• Family and Friends' Reactions

  • Timestamp [09:42]
  • While some friends questioned the speed of their relationship, Kelsea felt supported, believing that Morgan provided the "steadiness" she needed amid her rapidly changing life.

3. Challenges in Marriage

As the honeymoon phase faded, underlying issues began to surface, particularly around communication and personal growth.

• Lifestyle Differences

  • Timestamp [04:01]
  • Kelsea discusses how she was always on the move, traveling for her career, while Morgan remained steady, leading to a disconnect.

• Compartmentalizing Emotions

  • Timestamp [18:14]
  • Due to the constant demands of her career and the lack of mutual support, Kelsea learned to compartmentalize her feelings, often suppressing her need for connection.

4. Couples Therapy and Separation

Recognizing the growing disparities in their relationship, Kelsea and Morgan sought couples therapy, which ultimately highlighted their fundamental differences.

• Initiating Therapy

  • Timestamp [19:09]
  • Kelsea felt the relationship was "lopsided" and believed it wouldn't survive without her constant efforts, prompting the need for professional help.

• Lack of Mutual Effort

  • Timestamp [12:19]
  • She explains, “I was just so tired of showing up in that way all the time and not feeling like I was seen or matched.”

5. Leading to Divorce

The culmination of unresolved issues and personal revelations led Kelsea to make the difficult decision to divorce Morgan at 29.

• Realizing the Need for Divorce

  • Timestamp [28:52]
  • Kelsea reached a turning point when she recognized she wasn’t ready for motherhood, a core difference between her and Morgan.

• The Divorce Conversation

  • Timestamp [32:13]
  • In a poignant moment, Kelsea states, “I have to own the last few years... I need to let you know that.”

• Emotional Aftermath

  • Timestamp [33:18]
  • The unexpected release of Morgan's song about their divorce left Kelsea feeling "angry" and "used," complicating her grieving process.

6. Reflections on Divorce and Self-Growth

Post-divorce, Kelsea embarks on a journey of self-discovery, emphasizing personal responsibility and growth.

• Self-Ownership

  • Timestamp [43:08]
  • “I think anyone that... points their finger has a lot of work to do on themselves,” Kelsea reflects on the importance of taking responsibility in relationships.

• Rebuilding Trust in Herself

  • Timestamp [38:23]
  • Facing legal challenges, Kelsea admits, “It makes me not trust myself because I'm like, hurt people.”

7. Embracing New Relationships

Moving forward, Kelsea explores new relationships with a renewed sense of self and clearer boundaries.

• Entering a New Relationship

  • Timestamp [49:25]
  • Kelsea shares how she met Chase Stokes by "sliding into his DMs," showcasing her proactive approach to love post-divorce.

• Mindful Dating

  • Timestamp [50:27]
  • She emphasizes the importance of having personal aspirations and being with someone who respects each other's individual goals.

8. Thoughts on Marriage and Advice to Others

Concluding the episode, Kelsea offers invaluable advice to listeners navigating their own relationship challenges.

• Skepticism About Marriage

  • Timestamp [52:25]
  • While Kelsea doesn't rule out marriage, she expresses reservations about its legal bindings, advocating for daily choices in partnerships over formal commitments.

• Advice for Heartbreak

  • Timestamp [53:16]
  • “Only way out is through,” she advises, encouraging listeners to embrace their emotions and seek support from friends and loved ones.

• Message to Her Younger Self

  • Timestamp [53:53]
  • Kelsea tells her 22-year-old self, “You are going to learn that pissing people off is okay and actually it's necessary,” highlighting the importance of personal growth and self-assertion.

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Notable Quotes

1. Kelsea on Engagement:

   • [09:05] “He just comes from, like, such a loving family that believes so much in, like, unity and family.”

2. Kelsea on Divorce Decision:

   • [28:58] “I can no longer be in this marriage. And I really want to do this together, and I really want to honor the good that we've experienced by doing this the right way.”

3. Kelsea on Personal Responsibility:

   • [43:08] “Anyone that... points their finger has a lot of work to do on themselves.”

4. Kelsea on New Beginnings:

   • [50:27] “I want to be with someone that feels the same way about their life, and I want it to feel even that middle ground that I'm so bad at.”

5. Kelsea's Advice for Heartbreak:

   • [53:16] “Only way out is through. And I would say, like, tequila so much tequila.”

---

Conclusion

Kelsea Ballerini's candid discussion on Call Her Daddy offers a profound exploration of love's complexities, the challenges of maintaining a relationship amidst personal growth, and the strength required to make difficult life decisions. Her journey from a whirlwind romance to navigating the tumultuous waters of divorce serves as an empowering narrative for listeners facing similar challenges. Through vulnerability and introspection, Kelsea underscores the importance of self-awareness, personal responsibility, and the courage to pursue happiness on one's own terms.

Transcript

[Alex Cooper]

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[Kelsey Ballerini]

What is up, Daddy Gang?

[Alex Cooper]

It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Dad.

[Kelsey Ballerini]

Kelsey Ballerini. Welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Hello, Alex Cooper. Thank you.

Congratulations on your new ep.

Thank you.

Rolling up the welcome mat. I was listening to it in the car this morning and I listened to every single song and it's great.

Thanks.

It's also obvious what it's about. Divorce.

Yeah.

So let's get into it.

Let's get into it.

You met your ex husband Morgan Evans when you were 22 years old and he's also a country singer.

Yeah.

How did the two of you meet?

I was hosting an award show and he was my co host and I was like newly out of a relationship and I was in this phase where I was like on my third single. But like, like I just felt like the world was like opening up for the first time for me and like things were, things were working and I was like, I just like, I believed in everything.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like everything good was happening at once and I think I was just like so starry eyed to my life and then I met this person who like was, is like so charming and sweet and, and just it like aligned with this, this goodness that was happening in my world and it just all kind of clicked in like this kind of fairy tale moment.

I also feel like that age, even if, like, we all have our ups and downs at 21, 22, but it is a pretty ideal age where you, like, feel like you're an adult. Yeah, you're kind of not, but, like, you feel like it. You're feeling like it.

I thought that I had my entire life figured out. Like, I thought that I knew exactly what love was and what I contributed to a relationship and what I needed out of a relationship.

Yeah.

And I didn't.

What was your first impression of him? Like, what were you attracted to about him?

He just comes from, like, such a loving family that believes so much in, like, unity and family. And I come from a really, really broken family, and I was really attracted to that. Like, I was really attracted to the security that that idea had and that he innately had in him. Yeah, we definitely came in with different ideas of a relationship, you know?

[Alex Cooper]

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[Kelsey Ballerini]

Daddy Gang.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Kelsey Ballerini]

What were those first few weeks and months of dating like?

It was just a whirlwind. I like, I am such a jump right in person, which I. Part of me was like, I don't want to do that again. And part of me is like here I am. But I don't know how to shield that because I like that about myself. I'm like, I would rather feel things without a filter and then fall on my ass later and, and feel the opposite of that feeling fully than not let myself feel a feeling like that's the point of life, you know. And so I think that like my life was changing so much and I was like all of a sudden busy all the time and traveling the world for the first time. Like I'm from Knoxville. And then I was like going to Australia, you know, I was like, this is amazing. Like, look at the world. And he felt steady. Really, really steady through all the chaos of my life changing.

When you look back now at those beginning, first few, even, like, weeks, month or two of dating, is there anything now you can be like, oh, I think that's a red flag, but you were too young at the time to recognize.

I, at 22, was much quieter. I didn't have an opinion on much. I. I'm a people pleaser to my core, and I think that that was the thing that was in the driver's seat. I was a mirror back to whoever was in front of me, and I was really good at being whoever people needed me to be. And then I grew up.

You got engaged after nine months of knowing each other? Yeah, nine months of knowing each other. Were you surprised when he proposed?

No. No. I mean, it was like. It was balls to the wall. It was all in.

Had you guys talked about getting engaged?

Yeah. And it's so funny because I swore I would never get married. It was just not my thing. And I think it's because I watched my parents really have a time with it. They had a nasty divorce. They still can't really be in the same room. And so I think being an only child, watching that, walking through that at 12, 13, like, those impressionable ages, I was just like, I'm not doing it.

When you guys got engaged, what was your friends and family reaction?

They were happy. I mean, I think. I think there was definitely, like, this is. This is pretty fast undertone to everything, but, like, you know, he's a good person, and he was really good to me, especially then.

Yeah.

So I think they wanted to see me happy. I also think that they were watching my life start to change, and they wanted someone with me that was more steady, so I didn't have a go off the rails.

Yeah, that makes sense. I was wondering if there were any of those, like, friends that sometimes it creates a riff in the friendship, but they're like, kelsey, like, are you sure? Like, this is really soon. Like, did you not have anyone in your life that was questioning you?

People questioned him more than they questioned me. Like, my friend Megan, I'll never forget this. The first time she met him, she pulled him aside and she said, you have a lot more to gain from this than she does.

Why did you think that is?

I think we were just in different places. You know, he. He's nine years older than me, and he was kind of restarting his career in the States, and I was, like, digging my heels in, and it was Just we were in different places with our. With our jobs and with where we were at with them.

Did you feel that way, that he had more to gain?

I never felt like that until afterwards. Yeah.

Did you live together before you got engaged?

We did.

How soon did you move in together?

Ooh, eight months.

[Alex Cooper]

Wow.

[Kelsey Ballerini]

Eight months.

It sounds insane for me to say it out loud now.

Sometimes you can be so in it and clouded in your judgment because, like, the immediate in front of you feels so good and makes so much sense in your head not to say it's a full bad decision. It's just, like, you don't have the wherewithal to be like, let me think about this. Not from a place of being young and in love and infatuated, like, it's really fucking hard. But eight months to move in. Did you move in with him, or did he move in with you, or did you guys get, like, a mutual place?

He moved in with me.

Oh, that's interesting. So he's nine years older, you have a place, and he moves in with you. How did that conversation go?

It was just kind of the undertone of the whole relationship, you know?

Now, do you see that as a red flag? Do you think if in that specific instance, say, like, moving in, like, if you had pushed back, do you think the relationship would have progressed in the way that it did?

Maybe not as swiftly. I think that definitely accelerated it. But like I said, like, I was just. I was like, how can I be of service? I'm a people pleaser. What. What do we need to do to make this happen? You know?

Did anyone ever ask you guys, like, what's the rush? Like, why do you have to get married so soon? Like, date, have fun, you know?

I'm sure people did. Yeah, I'm sure people did. And I just simply did not care to listen.

Okay, take me to your wedding day. What do you remember about that day?

Oh, my God. I haven't thought about that in a minute. I just wanted everyone to have a nice time. I didn't want to have a wedding.

Why?

Because I didn't, I think, at the end of the day, really want to get married. I did in that moment. But fundamentally, I think from the trauma that I had as a kid, I didn't. And then I think I told myself that I did, and I take the full responsibility of that narrative.

Did you ever share with him that you didn't think fundamentally you believed in marriage for yourself?

So I think these bigger thoughts started really showing up as I grew up, and that was in the marriage? Yeah. You know, because I was like, of course. You know, I love you. Of course I want to marry you. Of course I want to have kids with you. And then we were married, and then it was, like, time for kids. And then I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. How you enter into a relationship and how you show up to it and like, that. That's going to be the through line.

Yeah.

And so I started overcompensating really, really early on. And that happened till the very end.

Can you explain what you mean by that? Overcompensating?

Like, I was the one who was like, when am I gonna see you? How is that going to happen? Here's the flight. Let me buy that flight for you. Here's the hotel. Sure. I'll leave my mom for Christmas and buy our flights to go see your family in Australia. Okay, cool. We have an anniversary coming up. Should we book a trip? Okay, I'll do that, too. We're home for a week. I'll book the cleaners. I got that, too. I just did it all. And it's because I started it that way. I didn't ask him to meet me anywhere. I just did it.

When you're saying you were basically financially funding the relationship, when did you start to get, like, resentful?

When I just simply didn't see him. I got to a place where I was like, if I wasn't. If I wasn't killing myself to figure out how this overlaps and how this works, as I'm, like, you know, busy, just. We wouldn't exist.

We. And why weren't you seeing him? Where is he?

I mean, he was touring. He was doing. Doing it all. I just. I think if you want to, you will.

Yeah. So how was your first year of marriage? Because you were married for five years.

Almost five. Like, four now.

Almost five. Okay. So how was the first year of marriage?

It was great.

Okay.

It was great. We, like, we were still so young in our relationship. Like, our relationship was still so young.

Right.

Let alone the marriage, you know? So, like, we were still kind of in, like, the rainbows and butterflies, and it was fun and sweet and romantic, and there was effort. And.

I know I always say to myself and to my girlfriends of, like, you have to get to the year mark, and then you kind of start to recognize if you'd want to be with that person.

Yeah.

You got married in the honeymoon stage for sure. When did you realize the two of you were not on the same page about what marriage looked like?

Longer than I give myself credit for a long time. A long time. And there were. There was separations. There was years of couples therapy. There was, like, many nights of sleeping on the couch. Like, this was just a relationship that took work for a long time.

Do you remember, like, the first night that you slept on the couch?

I remember. I don't think it was the first night, but I remember it was a night where I was like, this is not what I want. But I slept on the couch the night before the CMAs. And I remember I went to rehearsal at the arena and texting him and him being like, I'll just see you at the carpet.

Like, okay, can you give me a little bit more of a. Why did you sleep on the couch?

There was just such a sense of disconnection. We hadn't seen each other. There was a lack of effort to see each other. I was getting resentful because anytime we did see each other, I felt like I was carrying that load. And I was tired. I was just tired of showing up in that way all the time and not feeling like I was seen or matched. And then I was also tired from, like, traveling all the time and, like, giving so much of myself, because that's what I want to do to honor my career, too. And I think I just felt really depleted and not understood.

What did those nights look like? Like, fight wise, though? Like, are you.

We didn't fight.

You didn't fight?

Yeah, we didn't fight. No.

So it would be just silence. You're walking out, you're sleeping on the couch. You wake up in the next morning and it's like, yeah, that's how it goes.

Yeah.

And when you walk out onto the. Like to go to sleep on the couch, he doesn't come to try to get you. He stays in the room. It's just silence. Yeah, but how would you feel when you're on the couch, like, going to bed? Like, what were. Do you remember what you were mentally going through?

I definitely learned how to compartmentalize, which is some undoing that we're working on now. Yeah. Because I was like, I have to work tomorrow. I have to work tomorrow, and I have to show up with him so people don't ask questions. And then, you know, 2021, I host the CMT Awards. He just wasn't there.

[Alex Cooper]

He didn't show up.

[Kelsey Ballerini]

I was like, you cannot come. You cannot come. It was so bad.

Why did you not want him to go?

Because I had to work and I had to show up. And I knew that if he Was there. We were like in and out of separation and just not good. And I was like, it's just like, I don't want to fake it. I don't want to fake it.

Did people in your life know that this was happening?

Yeah, everyone in my life knew this was happening. Everyone in his life knew this was happening.

How soon into the marriage did you guys get into couples therapy? Because I know you said you've been doing for years.

Year two.

And what was like the issue you kept reaching a standstill on to make you be like, we need to go to couples therapy.

Just like feeling really lopsided. Just feeling like this relationship would not be alive if I, if I didn't do everything. And I just like you getting on the plane that I found and booked for you is not enough when you.

Because I appreciate how you said earlier, like, everyone is going to have their own side and I like, really respect that everyone experiences it their own way. But from your recollection of how you felt in those moments, what would be his reasoning when you would come at him to be like, I'm literally doing fucking everything. Like, give me something. Like, what would he say?

I mean, he was busy too, you know, and I, I think I was maybe a little too nice about it, but, like, he needed to do what he needed to do too. And, and also, by the way, like, I don't pin the whole downfall on him at all. I was not perfect. He was not perfect. It was not perfect. And so there were definitely moments that I look back on where I'm like, oh, I should have done that different. Or I could have showed up here, I could have taken the flight this time, whatever it is. And I in, in the unraveling, that's definitely something that I ended up sharing with him. Just saying, like, I need to own the last few years of like, I think I checked out a long time ago and I need to, like, I need to let you know that.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Kelsey Ballerini]

Daddy gang.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay, this is the solve at under 20 for a pack of three. Why not see for yourself self and pick up a pair of Hanes comfort [e-mail] or any major retailer. Plus, you can use promo code Daddy for 20% off on hanes.com. that's promo code Daddy for 20% off on haning.com. enjoy.

[Kelsey Ballerini]

Your pictures from your wedding were in People magazine.

Yeah.

How did the pressure of having a public relationship also impact how long you stayed?

I. I think I'd be lying to say it didn't. I think there was a lot. I think there were two levels of fear that I had to get past. One was that I was. My parents, like, having that fear of, like, you're doing what they did. How. How has this happened?

Anything that. How our parents fucked us up. We're like, I'm gonna do it the complete opposite. I'm not gonna let this happen to me. Can you talk about your feelings towards having that as, like, a big thing in your head of, like, I cannot fail because I don't want to be my parents? Like, how did that mentally and emotionally affect you?

I think I got married because of my parents.

Mm.

I think I got divorced because of me. And I, like, I think me choosing to get out of that marriage was me kind of rewriting what divorce looks like and what it means.

I was listening this morning, and I remember hearing the line of, like, I may be not getting this exactly correct. But it's like we would text and in place of basically, like, sex. When did, like, you lose the spark in your relationship?

Sex in my life and in my journey has been something that's taken a lot of work. I think I grew up really, really, really, really religious, and I went to, like, a Church of Christ college. And, like, if you have sex before marriage, you're going to hell. That was, like, in my body. Like, not just my mind, but, like, my body. And I had been with one other person before I got married, and it was a really negative sexual experience. And it was in a relationship, but it just was not healthy at all. And so the way that I define sex was very one sided, very for the man, very. Not a sense of connection at all. And then it was also littered with this, like, you're going to hell. And so then I got married and, like, had this shame around it going into it that made it really difficult for us to connect in that way from the very beginning. And I don't even think I understood what a good sexual relationship was. So I don't think I had anything to compare it to. It just was when we saw each other not very often, that would be something that I knew that he wanted and needed. And I wanted to be a good wife.

Yeah. Were you lonely?

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But I will say, like, I learned the value in female friendship. Like, oh, my God. So much. Like, I'm an only child and I always wanted sisters so badly. And I'm gonna cry. Not this, but, like, that is such a gift that came out of it was like, I. I have, like, such a good group of girlfriends that would, like, they have just shown up when it's not convenient. And I have a story.

Yeah.

Because this, to me is like, this to me is just in a nutshell. The reason it ended and the reason that I am where I am and the reason that I'm fucking happy is there was a time that I was out here I think it was 2019. And I get really, really. I get sad in LA. I don't know what it is. And I didn't have a good group of friends out here yet. I do now. In therapy, I was learning, like, you can't expect your partner to read your mind. If you need something, ask for it. Like, that's going to lead to a healthier communication. And so I remember I called him and I was like, sobbing, and I was just like, I'm in a bad place. I need you. Like, can you please get on a flight? Sent him the flight and he didn't come. And I remember feeling really embarrassed because I was vulnerable and I asked, and I hate asking and all these things, and it was just a moment that I shared with my friends and whatever. And then last year, I was on tour going through the divorce publicly, going on stage every night, and my best friend Kelly surprised me at my LA show. And it was such. It was so special. Like, that whole show was so special. And then the next day, I had a day off and we were driving in Malibu and she looked at me and she was like, hey, do you know why I'm here? And I was like, because you wanted to see the Greek show? She's like, no, because in 2019, you had to ask for someone to come out here that should have known, that he should have known. And you asked and he didn't show up. And I'm here to show you that it's not that fucking hard.

Who brought up the idea of divorce first?

Me.

How did you begin that conversation? Take us to that moment.

The moment I think it was over. Over was I was realizing that I wasn't ready for kids. And that's a fundamental difference. And I don't. And I still don't. I don't know if I want kids at all or not. But that was something that we had talked about early on, and that was something that I was changing on, you know, because he was ready. He was like, I don't want to be an old dad, is what he kept saying. And I was like, I'm not. I just. Like, I'm not there yet, and I can't. I can't do that to, like, save this and give you something that I'm not ready for. Like, I just can't do that to myself. And I remember I went to get everything checked to see if I could freeze my eggs, and I didn't tell him. And I took him out to dinner and I was like, for my 30th birthday. I want to freeze my eggs. And it was not a good day. It was not a good day. And I think that was when I was like, there's a fundamental difference here. That has happened and that has shifted, and it's no longer, like, I don't see this person. I miss this person. I'm alone, I'm lonely. It's like he wants something out of life that I'm. I don't think I'm. I don't. I'm not there. And whether I'll get there or not, I don't think it's with this person, if it is. And I think internally, in hindsight, that's where I went. Like, I think maybe we need to rethink this.

Kelsey, first of all, I really respect you having that moment within yourself to be like, because of now kind of getting to know you. You're like, I have people pleasing tendencies. I sometimes have a hard time with saying no. And so I'm just gonna go with the flow and I'm gonna go with it. There's a lot of people that have children to save a marriage.

Yeah.

And that is. I mean, children are beautiful things, but, like, not to save a marriage.

Yeah.

And so the fact that you had that internal strength to be like, I know this is never going to be something that I can do just to save this. It sounds like there was a very bad reaction.

Yeah.

Do you think had he been, like, loving and sweet about it, would you be in this situation?

I think at the end of the day, even the fact that I was having the conversation of freezing my eggs, that was telling me that we were on different pages with it. Yeah. You know, he was like, ready, ready. And I was wanting to freeze my eggs a year and a half from then.

Right. So when did you have, like, the conversation that you wanted a divorce?

In August. But we had kind of been separated and I had asked for separation, and so we were, like, switching off in the house, and I was, like, living with my mom if I wasn't on the road. And then I went on this girls trip to Napa with, like, all my girlfriends, and I just felt joy, like pure joy, and I wasn't sharing it with them. Like, we weren't talking, you know, and I was just like, yeah, this. I like this version of myself so much more.

So did you end up having, like, a conversation with him or did you just. When did that happen?

A couple weeks later when I saw him in person. And it was like a really beautiful conversation, if I'm honest with You. You know, I was just really honest. I just said, like, I. I've. I've loved. I've loved what this has brought in my life, and I respect you and I respect me, and because of that, I can no longer be in this marriage. And I really want to do this together, and I really want to honor the good that we've experienced by doing this the right way. And it was beautiful. We cried, we hugged. It was sweet. And then something changed, and I don't. I haven't talked to him since.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, wow.

[Kelsey Ballerini]

You never spoke through, like, the lawyers and everything? That was it. That was the last day you spoke. Wow.

Yeah. He'll, like, after that conversation, obviously, you lawyer up and you tell. You tell your team and you get your people and.

Yeah.

And. Yeah. And everything kind of just shifted.

How does that make you feel that you haven't spoken?

I mean, I'm at peace with it now. At first, I was just like, I. I just felt like, you know, we had had a conversation of, like, let's. Let's do this right. Like, this doesn't have to be.

Yep.

This doesn't have to be nasty. This doesn't have to be what I've experienced divorce to look like.

It got nasty.

Yeah, it did.

He released a song about your divorce, and this was before it was finalized.

This was weeks after we decided.

And you had no idea the song was coming out?

No.

Some of the lyrics. And these are, like, not even some of the. I'm not gonna say the worst, but, like, it was. How long have you been waiting to take our pictures down? Why am I just finding out? I was reading the lyrics, and I was like, oh. Like, from my interpretation, I was like, he is, like, blaming you of, like, you have, like, known all along that you weren't in this. And, like, I'm blindsided and, like, why are. Why are you just, like, randomly last minute telling me like, this? This is pretty up. When you heard the song and when you hear the lyrics, what does it make you feel?

Oh, so angry. So angry. That's, like, that. I felt pretty. I had a pretty good grasp on, like, my grieving journey until that song came out, and I was livid. I think that maybe there's a world where he was blindsided. I did not blindside him. I think two things can be true, and I. I think, like, if he truly was blindsided, then where was he? And that's the point.

Yeah. Because you write, were you blindsided or were you just blind? The truth is hard to hear, but it Wasn't hard to find. Can you explain your, like, mentality when you were writing these lyrics? And, like, where were you at trying to explain this?

I mean, I think I was just kind of, like, putting examples in there. Like, we were in therapy for years. Like, remember that time that I slept on the couch before the CMA Awards? And then we, like, walked the carpet, like, with bags under our eyes because we've been fighting, like, but not really fighting because, like, you know, I was just like, again, if that is your narrative, if that's true to you, like, where were you?

How does it feel, though, to, like, in that moment now, be going, like, back and forth in songs with your ex husband?

I feel, if I'm being honest, like, I felt like it was really opportunistic for him to put that out when he did, when we were still going through the legalities of getting divorced. And I felt really used in that moment. And again, his healing journey is his healing journey. I respect that. But publicly exploiting it feels a little nasty to me before it's final. Now we're, like, months past it. You know, we're moving on. And I've taken the time to actually sit in my feelings and go through that grieving process and take ownership of what I brought to the table, too. And that's why this EP has been. I'm nervous to put it out, for sure, but I wish I would have had it in August. I wish in August when I was like, I'm blowing up my life. I'm doing it. That someone would have had those six songs that I could have listened to. Yeah. To, like, go through the intricacies of the emotions of everything that you think your life is going to look like. It's not.

When you were saying it got nasty, it obviously feels like it's not just because he wrote a song.

No, no.

Can you share?

Yeah. I mean, I want to, like, protect him weirdly in this, but, like, one thing that was. He was so Die Hard about in the beginning was, like, I don't ever want people to think that I'm, like, using you or riding any coattails or, like, trying to get opportunities through you or any of that. And I never felt like he did. I never felt like he did. Like, to my core. Even now, I'm like, I believe. I have to believe that this man, like, was purely just in love with me. Not artist, me. Like, me me, you know? And then we got divorced, and who you marry is not who you divorce. And, like, you know, as he's putting Out a song about being blindsided. He's taking half the house that he didn't pay for.

So you didn't get a prenup?

I did get a prenup. It was kind of like that. Or alimony.

What the fuck?

What the fuck? I remember being on tour and I had just gone home. I had like two shows and then one night off, and I flew home to pack up my shit in the house because we were listing it, and flew back to Denver and got on a call with my manager and my lawyer, and they're like, you know, like, he wants half the house. That's how they're reading the prenup. Or there's. There's messy alimony language. And I. And I just remember being on the phone being like, can you articulate to me that I have, like, a choice right now to either give up half.

Of a house that I bought, that.

I bought and he contributed, but not equal and. Or say legally in this marriage and have, like, public alimony hearings indefinitely? And they're like, that's correct. And I was like, give him the house. I want out. I want out. Give me out.

[Alex Cooper]

How did that make you feel when.

[Kelsey Ballerini]

You got that call?

Shit. Here's the thing, and this is the thing that I still have to work on. It makes me not trust myself. It makes me not trust myself because I'm like, hurt people. Hurt people. I totally get that. And I have grace. I really do, because I do. I do know that he was hurt and is hurt. But, like, how did I. How was I married to this person for this long? And I had no idea that that that bit of character was tucked within that human being. That's what's hard for me. That's what's hard for me.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Kelsey Ballerini]

When I go all the way back to the beginning of this interview and your friends were like, you have way more to gain than she does. Don't let him take. Blah, blah. And then I get it, the feeling of like, oh, my God, it's fucking happening. Yeah, it's. It's all happening. It's a really shit feeling. And I also appreciate you being like, I have to somewhat blame myself like, that. It's hard to. You gotta, like, look inward of, like, what did I miss?

It takes two to tango totally fully. And I think anyone that, like, looks at the downfall of any kind of relationship and just points their finger has a lot of work to do on themselves, you know? Like, I take a lot of ownership and I like, you know, I write in the. I write in there like, I've shared all my secrets and I've paid for all my crimes. Like, I was not perfect, but I gave my honesty to who I owed it to.

When you look back at this whole situation and what part of yourself do you feel like you Lost. Or you kind of, like, silenced and pushed down during that marriage that now you're like, whoa, like, look at me now. Like, I feel like I'm, like, awake.

I think that I allowed there to be such a fear around getting divorced at 29. I think for me, I think he loves me more at 23, and I love me more at 29.

How are you finding a more positive spin than rather accepting the shame that society puts on women of, like, oh, God, she's divorced.

I think it's just all about forward motion, you know? Like, first of all, asking yourself the question, would you rather be lonely in a relationship or lonely alone? Coming to terms with that, blowing up your life just in letting it. Letting the dust settle where it's going to. That's been hard for me.

I love that you use the word blowing up your life, because I really do feel I had a white picket fence.

[Alex Cooper]

No.

[Kelsey Ballerini]

Yeah. And I feel like it feels that way, right? And I bet so many people listening are in a situation where they're like, oh, fuck, I wish I was you, Kelsey, Because I haven't blown my shit up yet, and I'm just staying in it because I don't know how to end it. And I don't know if you have any advice to someone of, like, how the fuck do you get the courage? Because in your mind, you actually are saying, I'm about to blow my life up. You're not.

Yeah, like, but I.

It's. I'm not. I would say the same thing if I was going through it. It feels like that in the moment. So how do you, now that you're on the other side of it, speak to people maybe that are like, I.

[Alex Cooper]

Can'T blow my life up?

[Kelsey Ballerini]

Like, our families like each other and our friends and our lives are entangled. Like, we have a house together. We may have kids together. Like, what do you say to someone that's, like, stuck in it?

I think asking yourself what the worst case scenario is. Like, is the worst case scenario feeling like you're feeling forever, or is it his mom being mad at you? Is it TMZ running a story? Is that the worst case scenario? It's all right. You're right.

Worst case is fucking staying in something that makes you miserable.

Worst case is staying in something where you are not honoring yourself. And in doing that, you're not honoring them and you're not allowing them to go live the life that they want to live.

You go through this divorce, you are.

Like, oh, my God.

We're like, let's Take a sip of what? You're like, where was that tequila? We should have been fucking drinking.

Oh, he should have been.

So you go through this divorce.

Yeah.

You're finding yourself, you're figuring your shit out.

Yes, ma'am.

How did you know you were ready to date again?

Oh, God. Am I ready to date again? Looks like it. I don't know. You know, listen, I think obviously he and I's healing journeys are different. I think I grieved a lot of the marriage in the marriage, and so I think I was ready to open back. And I don't actually have no idea what his journey is right now, but I've just felt, why not? Yeah, why not? I've never really dated. I don't know how it works. I'm like, well, let's just put ourselves out there. Let's just vibe and it's been fun.

I love that too, because I feel like. And I get it. We just talked about a bunch of a relationship and divorce. And then I'm like, so what about dating? It's like, you gotta move on.

You have to move on.

You have to.

Am I just supposed to stay here?

[Alex Cooper]

No.

[Kelsey Ballerini]

Be sad forever?

Please don't. You deserve better.

Yeah.

Are you single?

Am I single? Am I single?

[Alex Cooper]

Gosh.

[Kelsey Ballerini]

No.

I just want to be so clear on caller, Daddy, every time I ask someone if they're single, if it's not an immediate. Yeah, you didn't even have to say no. No.

You're like, I know, I know, I know, I know.

Can I go to the bathroom? So you're dating Chase Stokes.

I'm just vibing.

Okay, well, I want to say, you guys are sweating. You're like, no comment. Okay. Can I ask you. Yes, I agree. Anything. Yeah.

At this point, we go way back. Jesus.

We saw the photo of you and Chase, and now there's more photos of you and Chase. What does it feel like, though, to have that be so public and, like, did you at all think about your ex and, like, what he would think when he saw those photos?

No.

No.

Well, no, because I'm not married to him anymore, and I don't need to care about his feelings anymore.

Right.

And I mean that with all the respect in the world, but his journey is not mine anymore. And so I hope that he is protected from whatever he needs to be protected from seeing. I hope he has people in his life that help him do that. That is not my job.

How did you.

That's gonna be a hot take, and I'm gonna get picked apart for that.

What are you supposed to do? Not do stuff because an ex is gonna see it.

And I'm not exploiting what I know what I am or am not doing.

Well, you're about to right now.

Well, yeah, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Yeah. No, I. Because I do want to be respectful. And. And also, it's. It's new. Everything's new for me. Dating, being photographed with someone, like, it's all really new. And I'm tiptoeing and I'm. I'm, like, happy. And I'm really relearning a lot about myself and how I show up in a relationship and how I show up for myself, and it's been, like, a really beautiful reawakening, I guess. Yes.

And I love how you're trying to fluff around. I'm about to come right back in. How did you guys meet?

I slid into his DMs.

I fucking love when people slide into DMs. What did you say?

Well, I was just like, I'm not gonna get on an app. And honestly, you know, he shoots in Charleston, and my manager lives there, and he, like, put the bug in my ear. He was like, you know who's really cute? Like, when you're ready, it's Chase. And I was like, you're so right. And I've never seen the show, but I just knew of him and. And yeah, so I followed him and he followed me, and I just swan dove right on in.

You have to not maybe give us the exact. But give us an idea of, like, what the fuck are you sliding in with?

His handle is hi, Chasedokes. And I said, hi, Chase Stokes.

Oh, wow. And then he immediately answered, and you guys kind of look at you.

We're manifesting, baby.

Okay, so now that you're kind of in now a new relationship, how are you in your head? Are you letting yourself just go for it? Are you being mindful about, like, do you have a certain different way about going into a relationship now with what you've learned in your past?

For sure.

Share.

Oh, I just. I feel. I feel like, because I'm in. I think I'm finally an adult. I think that just happened over the last couple of years. And I feel like what that means to me is, like, I have opinions. I have a career that is a priority for me to show up for myself and the people that. That I've aligned with along this journey. And I have aspirations and goals that are tied to no one. And those are all really Important things. I have my shit together. You know what I mean? And for me to share that with anyone is a gift. And I want to be with someone that feels the same way about their life, and I want it to feel even that middle ground that I'm so bad at. I'm eager to find it.

Okay, you have to just give us a little insight of, like, going on a date with someone and then a photo of them just being, like, all over the Internet. What do the two of you say when that shit happens? Like, when you're sitting in your apartment or you're with him, you're in your house, where the fuck are you? What are you guys saying when that comes out? Wherever you are, what is happening when that comes out?

Well, he. He kind of full. Sent it a little bit. So basically, we had been hanging out, and people got a photo of us at the game, at the championship. And so that was kind of just going. And he was like, I mean, it's gonna keep going, so should I just, like, poke the bear? And I was like, sure. And the poking the bear was like, a photo of me just, like, leaning.

Leaning on him. How long had you guys been together before that photo leaked?

I mean, I. We weren't even together. Is, like, so relative. I don't even really know. Like, we had been talking for. Since the beginning of December.

Okay, so you were just like, we're just going for it. You're having fun.

I'm having. I'm having fun.

What is your mentality now around marriage? Getting married again? Would you ever do it? How do you feel about it?

Anytime I've said a hard no to something, I've come back later in my life and challenged it. So. So right now I would. I would say. I don't think I would. I will get married again. I love the idea again of partnership. I'm a relationship bitch. But I. I don't know if I believe in, like, the legality of it all anymore. And I think if you want to be with someone, it should be a daily choice. I am also just fresh out of, like, a. That was, like, a brutal moment. So subject to change, right?

You're like, alimony, the house. You're like, marriage is awful. Just date.

I get it.

I get it. What would you say to someone right now in this moment that's listening, watching, and is going through heartbreak?

Oh, I would say, be proud of how you're going to handle it in 10 years. I would say, only way out is through. And I would say, like, tequila so much tequila.

I love you. You're like so much tequila. It gets you right through.

It's gonna be all right.

It's gonna be all right. What would you say to 22 year old Kelsey right now in the seat where you're sitting?

Oh, my God. Oh. What would I tell myself at 22? You are going to learn that pissing people off is okay and actually it's necessary. You are going to learn that you can be a good person and not good for somebody. You are going to learn that.

Your.

Circle needs to shrink a little bit and that's gonna hurt and that's gonna be awesome. And you're gonna learn that 29 is gonna look a hell of a lot different than you thought it would. And so far, so good.

Kelsey Ballerini, thank you so much for coming on. Call her daddy.

Thank you so much. Alex.