C (2:50)

Seriously, really happy to be here too.

B (2:52)

Is this true? I heard you're doing samurai training.

C (2:55)

Oh yeah, I just did a samurai training, yes.

B (2:59)

How does one get into samurai training?

C (3:02)

Well, girl, that is a long story, but let's just say there's a place called Samurai island and you can go and like really learn the wisdom of this samurai. I believe this gentleman is 64th generation samurai. And a huge thing I got out of taking the samurai class was you're not supposed to think with your head. You're not even supposed to think with your heart. You're actually supposed to think literally and listen to your body and your gut. The samurai training comes as one of the many things I do for healing. And like my healing journey has been mythological, but it's also been so fun. Like it led me to samurai training.

B (3:48)

That makes so much sense because I was like, samurai training, like, how did we get there? But it's actually crazy to even hear you explain that because I feel like as women we can be so disconnected from our body, understandably so to have you doing something that is forcing you to be like in your body, leading with your body. And what's like the end goal of the samurai training?

C (4:09)

Well, my end goal is I actually ended up making out with the samurai's assistant. But that what didn't mean to be my end goal.

B (4:19)

You're like, I want to kill all the enemies with my samurai sword. You're like, oh, just get a good make out.

C (4:25)

No, I was just. The goal in all of it, I think, is to live a joyful life in my body, in my power presently with gratitude, inauthenticity. That's the goal of everything I do these days.

B (4:43)

As you should. Before the samurai training.

C (4:45)

Yes.

B (4:46)

Before being a musician, you were focused on school and you plan to study religion at Barnard, which is like a top tier school in the United States. What do you think you would be doing right now had you kept going with that direction?

C (5:00)

What's so interesting? Because I actually have been considering going back to divinity school.

B (5:06)

You're so fucking interesting.

C (5:07)

I like, but, but I have been like flirting with the idea of going to divinity school because I'M so fascinated with, like, the structures of humanity and what makes people do the things that they do. And what do people believe in and, like, how to live a beautiful life in. In the light. Like, I'm so fascinated with that. I used to have my mom drive me from church to church, and she's like, whose child are you? Because. And I just wanted to find, like, community, you know? I love community. I love creating community. I think community is really important.

B (5:44)

Of course. Do you have any, like, daily rituals or practices that you engage in every day?

C (5:52)

Yes, I do. I wake up, and the first thing I do is listen to a gratitude meditation by Dr. Joe Dispenza. High recomm. Then I go outside, and I try to be naked in the sun for 20 minutes.

B (6:06)

Do you have a private backyard or what's happened?

C (6:08)

I don't know, do I?

B (6:10)

You're like, wherever I can get the sun.

C (6:14)

Well, that actually, like, being comfortable in my nudity is kind of an act of resistance, too, because after being a pop star from 2009 to current present day, like, I have, like, almost just started waging a war against my own body due to things I read about myself. And I just internalized this, like, all these external voices. So to then be in my body enough to just be like, it. I'm gonna be naked in my backyard, and I'm gonna call my tour the Tits Out Tour. Like, that is also an act of resistance. Like, I don't hate my body anymore. I actually love my body. And I went to Italy and I, like, ate a lot of pasta, and I love it. Like, it's so country to just, like, be in your body and love it.

B (7:02)

And it's so hard.

C (7:04)

It's so hard. And the world does not want you to do that.

B (7:07)

Isn't it so up, though, that I feel like sometimes it takes us having such horrible happen to you as a woman, where you're pushed to the point of seeing that you can't win no matter what. You have been literally dragged through the mud in every direction. And then you're like, at some point, I think I got to just decide, like, I'm not going to have it. But, like, it's so horrible that it takes us to the end of the earth essentially, to be like, now I can stand outside in the sun and fudgeing naked and be like, hallelujah, I love my life.

C (7:38)

And, like, I don't care if somebody can see.

B (7:40)

Who gives a shit?

C (7:41)

Who gives a shit? That's something I wish somebody told me. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Like, they might care for like, a headline, but like, nobody actually cares.

B (7:52)

We all think everyone is so consumed with what we're doing. They're not. They don't.

C (7:56)

They don't care. I mean, I have been through so many things and I like, was walking around like, oh my God, everyone knows that. You can probably Google a picture of my butthole.

A (8:09)

Probably.

C (8:10)

Like, so many of the things in my life are on the Internet that should not be on the Internet. Don't know how I got there. Don't like that it's there, but you could probably do it. So I'm walking around being like, so much, like, embarrassment. And then I kind of realized, like, nobody cares. Nobody, nobody cares.

A (8:34)

Daddy Gang, we are so, so, so, so back.

B (8:38)

It's the moment. It is really, truly the moment we've all been waiting for. Spring is finally here. Things. Thank you, God. The UV is getting high enough to

A (8:48)

tan, the outdoor concerts are lining back

B (8:50)

up, and suddenly the group chat that went completely silent all winter. Yes, it's popping off again. But none of that would be complete

A (8:58)

without a white claw.

B (8:59)

Okay, when the weather warms up, I am running to the store and grabbing some white claws. Their new blood orange flavor has become my go to. It comes in a variety pack and so everyone gets their favorite.

A (9:11)

I've already been stocking up to have

B (9:14)

my friends over for a little pool day.

A (9:16)

There's just truly nothing better than catching

B (9:18)

up as we lay out together. And yes, Bruce and Henry obviously get their own sunbed over there. The temperature in LA was literally almost 90 last weekend, which usually I personally would have hated.

A (9:29)

But I was actually so happy to

B (9:31)

be sitting in the pool sipping a

A (9:33)

crispy, crispy white claw and pretending I was back on last summer's Euro trip.

B (9:39)

Whether it's barbecues, brunches, or just girls

A (9:42)

night by the fire, I think we're

B (9:43)

all ready to make up for all the time we lost stuck inside this winter.

A (9:46)

Grab a pack from your local spot and grab life by the claw this spring. Please drink responsibly. Hard seltzer with flavors.

B (9:53)

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A (9:57)

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B (11:13)

Okay. You had an interesting upbringing in the sense that your mom chose to have you on her own.

C (11:19)

Yeah.

B (11:20)

There was no man romantically involved in her life. When you got older, how did she talk to you about this, huh?

C (11:31)

Well, I met. I've like, met some of the people that may be my birth father.

B (11:36)

Okay.

C (11:36)

But she really wanted a Pisces, so here I am, triple Pisces. And so I have met some of the people that might be my birth father. And she was like, who do you look more like? And I was like, mom, no, stop. Stop it. But. So, yeah, that's how.

B (11:58)

And can you explain your mother wanting a Pisces? What are some characteristics?

C (12:03)

Well, the Pisces, supposedly it's like the last in this cycle of the astrological signs. So, like, we're the last. I've been told I'm in my last lifetime multiple times. We're very emotional. We're very in touch with like, all things spiritual. We're like one foot in the ether vibes.

B (12:26)

So you believe in past lives?

C (12:28)

Oh, yeah. I have a song called Past Lives.

B (12:29)

What do you think you were doing back then?

C (12:31)

I think I was burned at the stake. I definitely was a man. And I like have. This is like a delusion that's helped me in a lot of ways, but I like to think that I am the reincarnation of Athena. So.

B (12:48)

As you should.

C (12:49)

You know what? Whatever works.

B (12:50)

You're like. You also can just decide what your past lives were.

C (12:55)

Whatever you think is like the cuntiest thing over it.

B (12:58)

That is who you fucking were in your past life, bitch. Okay, so you weren't Necessarily raised by any male figures in your life. What did your mom teach you by being kind of this, like, single mother role about independence?

C (13:13)

I mean, it taught me so much. I'm so grateful I saw a woman that just did it all. Yeah. Like, she wrote iconic songs. She wrote songs for Dolly Parton and Johnny Cash. And, like, she's so cool. And she raised three kids all on her own. And she also is, like, really instrumental in, like, the positive. The. The power of looking at your life positively and deciding who you want to be and what you're gonna do. She really always was like, don't say, like, oh, maybe I'll be a pop star. She said, like, I'm gonna be a pop star. Like this. It's, like, a little delusional, but it also worked to really believe in yourself.

B (14:00)

Was she at all hesitant about you getting into this crazy industry?

C (14:09)

I think she. She always warned me that it was hard.

B (14:12)

Yeah.

C (14:13)

But I, like, literally was yodeling by the age of three in the backyard. Like, she'd be like, you're so loud. Go yodel in the backyard. And so I'd be, like, wandering around the backyard yodeling. She's like, what is she gonna do? Like, I knew what I was supposed to do. I came out of the womb yodeling. Like, that's.

B (14:32)

Do you still yodel?

C (14:34)

I mean, like, in TikTok, the oh is like my weird, spooky, monster mash voice version of a yodel kind of. So.

B (14:51)

So you brought it into your adult life and into your music just, like, in a little bit of a different way than when you were three.

C (14:57)

Listen, I don't know. Whatever that is, I did that.

B (14:59)

We're not mad about it. Okay. You blew up when you released the song tik Tok back in 2009. I need you to know. I don't know what it was. It was some type of thing that you could submit a music video to and then you could try to win. I made one.

C (15:16)

Are we going to watch it?

B (15:17)

No, no, no, no, no. I'm like, roll the clip. But I made my dad take my best friend Kristen and I to New York city, and we made a full TikTok and music video. I actually think it was kind of good. Spoiler.

C (15:28)

I think we have to see it.

B (15:29)

I didn't win. I'll pull it up for you after. Yeah, I'm gonna send it to you because it's. It's not embarrassing because I know the type of person you are. You'd be like, slay queen yes. Like, get it, bitch. Brace face. Love it. But I was a huge. Like, I was in it. Like, I was there. I was loving it. And I just remember that era so clearly. So I want to go through a couple walk down memory lanes with you. There's some pictures next to your chair. Reach down and pull them up.

A (15:54)

Okay.

B (15:55)

I want you to just tell me what you feel by looking at these pictures. And what do you remember?

C (16:00)

I'm, like, so happy about it. I'm really happy about this. I like, yes. You know what? Yeah. Like, I was having fun and I, like, did not give one single what anybody thought.

B (16:20)

That was Jingle Ball 2009.

C (16:22)

Yeah.

B (16:23)

I also think your makeup and just the hair and everything, the outfits were so iconic. How did you come up with the glitter and the mascara?

C (16:33)

Oh, my gosh. Okay. To be honest with you, I grew up, like, seeing my mom be this single parent and loving, like, punk music and rock and roll, like Bowie and Iggy Pop and the Stones and Alice Cooper. So this is, like, inspired by Alice Cooper and Bowie. And I just always remember thinking, like, if a boy can do it, why can't I do it? And one of the first albums I listened to a lot was Licensed to Ill Beastie Boys, those produced by Rick Rubin, who I later got to work with. And, like, I just remember really being attracted to people that were like, okay, being like a silly, crazy goose. And I was like, I want to be a silly, crazy goose. I don't want to be like. Like, I'd go to school and everyone, like, straighten their hair and I'd be like, I don't wanna. I wanna do it purple. And like, I don't know if that maybe psychologically is because there was like, no man in the house. But, like, I was just. I wanted to, like, be a silly, crazy goose.

B (17:47)

Do your thing.

C (17:48)

Yeah.

B (17:48)

Did you keep any of that style still? Like, is anything in your closet that resembles that era?

C (17:53)

I mean, there's like, I walked in here with heels and I was like,

B (17:57)

nah, throw my Converse. I'm done with this. Okay, next one.

C (18:02)

Oh, my God, that was my first Grammys. And Justin Bieber. That was like the first. That we came out basically in the same 12 month cycle. And I. Yeah, I remember, like, we would always be at the same jingle balls. I was in, like, a radio show in Europe somewhere, and we would always see each other. And he was just like the heartthrob of all heartthrobs.

B (18:31)

Yeah.

C (18:32)

And. But I did remember being, like, so insecure walking in this dress and heels. I felt like I looked like. Like a baby giraffe that was just born. Like, not in a cute way. No, like, in a way where I was gonna topple over on the Grammy stage.

B (18:50)

You look amazing.

C (18:52)

Thank you. I actually do look amazing. I just remember being so terrified. Like, a lot of when you're, like, launched into pop stardom, it's, like, so fun, but at least for me, it was terrifying. I don't know if other girls have this experience.

B (19:07)

What were you scared about?

C (19:10)

I was just, like. It was just so intense. It was so intense. I came from, like, very, very humble beginnings and very young in life, and then Nashville, and then, like, launched into this, and it was just like. It was intense. It was like. It goes. You're being seen in such an intense way that it's. It's just kind of intense.

B (19:37)

Yeah. It's like, going from that to then 2010. You're standing. You're presenting an award, the Grammys, with

C (19:45)

the biggest star in the world. In the world.

B (19:47)

And you're like, hello.

C (19:49)

And I'm walking in heels, which. Spoiler alert, I don't with heels. Okay. I do it if I'm on a red carpet, so my leg looks nice from the side. That's the only time I do it. I'm usually barefoot and naked. Okay. And so then you have to, like, walk out on stage in these giant heels, and those stages are hard to walk. And everyone's like, we're going to give your shoes a seven out of ten. I'm like, why? And I can't walk. And, like, it's just stressful.

B (20:14)

Oh, my God. No. You and baby Biebs there. It's really cute. Okay, next.

C (20:19)

I'm so proud of him, by the way. I saw his. I wasn't at Coachella, but I'm so proud of what he just did.

B (20:24)

Me too. I have to say that it was incredible.

C (20:26)

Yeah. I haven't seen him in forever, but, like, very proud.

A (20:29)

Incredible.

C (20:30)

Amazing work.

B (20:31)

Amazing

C (20:33)

fun, high recommend. This is the show that I just put on last year. It was my first tour as a free woman. It's the biggest tour I've ever done, period. And I'm independent, period.

B (20:50)

Congratulations.

C (20:51)

Thank you. And it was like. That felt so good.

B (20:57)

Not that you're, like, even turning around to be, like, looking at your past, being like, you all. Look what I'm able to do, but there must have been some feeling of just, like, oh, my God. I'm so happy that I've proven to myself and to the world, like, I'm still here. I still got it.

C (21:14)

Well, it was, like, after almost 10 years in a litigation, And you just. It's. You know, I was like, maybe. Maybe that's. That's what it was. Maybe, like, this part of my life, like, that was awesome and, like. But maybe that's part of the past, and, like, I'm so grateful if I got to live that. Like, who gets to say that? And then to go on this tour, it's going to make me emotional for real. No, stop. Absolutely not. You're good. Our makeup. No, it's okay. You can cry. But, like, the makeup, you know, to be able to, like, go on stage and see, like, tens of thousands of people that, quite frankly, like, have seen some major ups and major downs and still want to show up and, you know, just as, like, a person to, like, feel still worthy and lovable, and it, like, really did something for me this tour. I feel like I probably got way more emotionally out of this tour than anybody else. Like, I can walk through the world. I walk through the world in a different way. Yeah. Because of all the people that showed up for me, and I hope that I also, like, was in service of them. That was my intention. But I think accidentally, everybody that showed up for this tour did, like, this incredible act of healing for me.

B (22:57)

Well, even. And I know we don't need to get into the details today, but, like, even when you say, like, nine years.

C (23:04)

Yeah.

B (23:05)

Nine years of your life, almost a decade of your life, you are locked into a legal battle where you are fighting for the right for your voice.

C (23:13)

Yeah.

B (23:13)

And then to get out of that and to look out into a crowd and see people there who are just waiting to see you again? Like, how do you feel when you look back at that time of your life to then know the tour eventually came and you did get free?

C (23:27)

Well, it was so interesting. And I mean, just to give a little bit of context, I signed the record deal I was in when I was 18 years old. I got found when I was 17, and I signed the record deal at 18 years old, and this record deal signed away the rights to my voice and likeness in perpetuity in the universe. Okay. So things happened. It didn't feel appropriate for me to remain in the situation I was in. So I did spend nine years in litigation fighting for the rights to myself back. And it's just like, spiritually and conceptually, such a weird. It's like, such a weird concept that somebody else can own something that's coming from inside of my body. Like, that's so weird. And it just never. I never, like, could understand it really, like, spiritually speaking, and. And then to really be fighting for the rights to. To my own voice and my own face and my own. My me. To myself. Like, what are we talking about? And for it to go on and on and on. And it was like, nine years is a long time. And there was a lot of support.

A (25:03)

Yeah.

C (25:04)

And I'm like, that support carried me through. Like, one tweet could carry me through for months. Like, one stranger in on Twitter that I should not be on Twitter, but I was, and I saw them, and, like, that would carry me for a really long time. Like, little things would take me through. Because nine years is a long time. Like, it's a long time. It's a. It's a fourth of my life. It's actually more than a fourth of my life.

B (25:33)

How did you keep yourself going through that time? Because I also am thinking about it. Like, anyone listening to this, it's. Even when you put it that way, you're right. It's like, it's from in. It's you. So, like, I'm sure there were so many moments where you had to think, like, what if this is so unjust? And, like, what if I didn't win? Like, what if I. Does it? May I lose myself? Like, how did you, like, grapple with those emotions as a human?

C (25:57)

It was. Honestly, it was very hard. Like, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. Like, I kind of. I feel like I had to just hide because it was so hard. And I feel like I'm so synonymous with joy, and I love that. I love bringing people joy. But, like, when I could not show up as that for others, because, like, I. You can only give away what you have for yourself. And I would try. Like, in this litigation, I would go out on tour, and I would sing the hit songs, and I. I tried, but it was really difficult. It's a really. It was just a really difficult, complicated. Really confusing for me, even, like, the emotions were so complicated.

B (26:50)

What do you think your dominant emotion was at that time?

C (26:54)

I was so lonely. And I was. I was so lonely in how anxious I was and how much fear I had, because we're told to speak up and stand up for ourselves and say something, you know? And I had. And I felt like, why am I. I'm getting, like, punished. Like, my medical records are on the Internet. My therapy notes are on the Internet. Every text message I've ever sent, it's on the Internet. Every email I've Ever sent. It's on the Internet. You know, I went to treatment for an eating disorder. Those notes that I went in to try to help save my own life, like, those are on the Internet. And I did that because I have nothing to hide. And. And I now can sit here and talk to you and realize that. That. That's actually very freeing in a way. Some, like, kind of feels like sitting naked in my backyard, you know, where you're just like, it's. It's freedom now. But at the time, it was really, like. It felt really just so bad.

B (28:11)

Hell.

C (28:12)

It's. It felt like hell.

B (28:15)

I also think this is so relatable for women, and something you just said is, like, you're at a place in your life where you are radiating joy, and you're choosing to live in joy. But the way that women can be painted as so angry when we try to stand up for ourselves. I'd written down a quote you said, I grew up thinking women can be all of the things, but the one thing I really cannot be is an angry woman. Like, what did you think would happen if you allowed yourself publicly to show your anger towards this unfair situation?

C (28:48)

There was, like, a period right before I got treatment for my eating disorder where Timber was the number one song in the world. And I was in my bedazzled bodysuits with my dancers and my wig and. And, like, behind the scenes, I was not having fun. I was starving myself. And I, like, had this moment where I looked in the mirror and I told you I grew up on, like, punk music. Like, Iggy Pop. I have an Iggy Pop tattoo. Like, and I, like, looked in the mirror, and I'm like, what are we doing? What are we doing?

B (29:31)

What?

C (29:31)

What are we doing? And I canceled the rest of this tour, and I started a band called Yeast Infection, and I only played dive bars.

B (29:44)

Kesha, I love you.

C (29:46)

I'm pretty sure everyone was like, and she's lost her goddamn mind. And I'm sitting there thinking, like, papa, Iggy Pop would be so proud of me. I'm burning it down the man. I just. You know. And then shortly thereafter, like, I got help and treatment and trying to sort through the emotions. And, like, to be honest with you, like, anger is so interesting as a woman, isn't it? Like, nobody wants to see that. No, because we're hysterical and we're crazy, and it's, like, ugly. And I kind of, like, am down to challenge that because I actually think it keeps us from being our most boundaried and most powerful selves. To keep us from anger. Because I can only speak for myself, but my anger indicates, and I feel it somatically in my body. I get anger, and it means I need to make a boundary, and someone is crossing a boundary.

B (30:52)

Every woman's like, you just described that better than I could have myself. Why are we not allowed to express that? That dominant emotion right there, that clearly there's something underneath that. You're so right. Where we're saying we're screaming for help.

C (31:08)

Yes.

B (31:09)

We're like. Because I'm pretty sure anger is not a dominant emotion. It is a reaction to one of the emotions. We're hurt, we're in pain, we're sad. We're whatever it is that someone usually made us feel. And so I'm fucking pissed off.

C (31:22)

Yeah.

B (31:22)

And people are like, no, no, no, no, no. It's just. Anger is just the top layer that's ugly. And no one wants to ask what happened.

A (31:28)

That no one wants to say, well, wait, what happened?

B (31:30)

Why are you so angry? They're like, girl, that is a bad look on you. And it's like, do you want to ask why I'm pissed the fuck off? Never. Be quiet. Sit down. Shut the fudge up.

C (31:39)

Well, I think that, like, I'm down. Well, so if I'm going to back it up. Yeah. This is, like, why I love songwriting, is because that is a safe place to go absolutely buck wild. Like, because I always think, like, where is a safe place to be really angry? Let me tell you where. When you're screaming a song into a microphone and all your friends are like, oh, my God, girl, sounds great. And they're, like, cheering for you. Oh, my God. This is why I write music. Right? Right.

B (32:12)

It's a little less, like, intense when it's. Music is like, oh, this is a bop, girl. You're like, little did you know I'm actually serious when I'm dead, screaming scream.

C (32:21)

But, like, that's the power of music, girl.

B (32:26)

Okay, next. Next. Next one. Because maybe I don't know what the fuck this relates to, but.

C (32:32)

And this is where we're at.

B (32:34)

And here we are. Cult Leader 101. You posted this back in January. Kesha, what's happening here? Well.

C (32:40)

Well, okay, let's. What is happening? So I'm a Pisces, and, like, so statistically, Pisces are great cult leaders.

B (32:51)

Okay.

C (32:52)

And we were going to Brazil, and I haven't been to Brazil in forever. And I was thinking about how culture. The word culture, it's like, culture. And then I was with My dancers, and they were like, you're kind of our cult leader. And I'm like, what? Like, what's the cult? And I. My goal is to kind of create, like, queer church. When I was designing my show, I wanted it to feel like a pop church for all people. But specifically, having gone to church after church after church in my life, wanting to go to divinity school and being, like, part of the queer community and caring very deeply about the queer community, I wanted, like, one of my main goals. The last act of my show on this tour is called Queer Church. Because throughout my whole career, I would not. I wouldn't be shit if it weren't for the queer community. And as, like, a pop star, like, I owe everything to the queer community, and I want to always make a safe space, space for all people.

B (34:10)

What do you think is the biggest misconception about you?

C (34:13)

Oh, Oh, I don't even. Like, Truly, it depends on what article you read, what era. Like, I don't even know. Like, that's the craziest part about having everything in your life on the Internet.

B (34:28)

Like, truly, it's almost like, depends on who you ask.

C (34:31)

Depends on. I have no idea. I literally don't know. And part of me is like, do I care? Because I'm so fucking solid.

B (34:44)

It's so good. I don't give up.

C (34:47)

No, it's so good. I, like, spent so much time, girl, after this litigation, I was like, not. I was truly so full of fear. Like, it was in my bone marrow. And I spent so much time and energy focusing on trying to regulate myself and regulate my nervous system and heal. And, like, I am so good with myself now. And that is like, a miracle. So I don't know. I don't know. People might think, oh, I don't even know.

B (35:23)

You're like, and I don't care. I don't.

C (35:24)

I mean, like, I'm kind of curious. But then it's kind of like going on Twitter, like, do I want to know?

B (35:28)

Like, what? Like, what are these saying? What are they say? You can put the cards down. That was perfect.

A (35:42)

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B (38:03)

Okay, I think that I want to talk about something that was very interesting and I know that you know you said to Monica Lewinsky and you said during that time you weren't able to have an orgasm because of the stress that you were under.

C (38:20)

Yeah.

B (38:20)

What has it been like reclaiming your sexuality?

C (38:25)

Oh my God. It's a miracle. It's a miracle. Do you know should I say this? I probably should. I don't care. I'm free. I now mostly celibate, you know, except for when you're in Italy like I now.

B (38:47)

What did you just say about Italy?

C (38:49)

I'm. I'm celibate except for when I'm in Italy, okay.

B (38:54)

Oh, I like that. It's like by country.

C (38:56)

Listen, whatever.

B (38:58)

Anyways you like the Italians, okay.

C (39:03)

But so now I actually like masturbate to gratitude meditations. You're.

B (39:12)

You're lying to me.

C (39:13)

I certainly Am not.

B (39:15)

Kelly. They're like, breathe in and be grateful. Ah, it's.

C (39:24)

Don't knock it till you try it.

B (39:25)

Honestly, everyone, let me just say, those downloads on the gratitude ones are gonna go way up.

C (39:33)

Remember when I said I started every day with a gratitude meditation? Right. It's been amazing. Literally, when I got my freedom, I was like, I think, you know, I'm pissed about a lot of stuff, but one of the things is that, like, pleasure, I keep coming back to pleasure. Like, it is okay as a woman to feel pleasure in this world when things. When you go through things, pleasure is not like the number one neural pathway that your brain always goes to when you have survived things.

B (40:06)

Yeah.

C (40:07)

And I had to reprogram that, and I do it every day, and I'm not even embarrassed about it.

B (40:12)

You shouldn't be. You absolutely shouldn't be. And I think, especially as women, I relate to, like, I think when we are stressed or we're going through something traumatic, the actual last thing that we can think about is sex and pleasure. Because our bodies are so frozen, we can't. We literally can't feel our bodies. Like, to lose that part of yourself and to shut down and then to be able to now be like, I connect this with gratitude, mother.

C (40:40)

Totally.

B (40:41)

Wow.

C (40:41)

And this is why I am celibate, is because I'm calling in a king. Like, it's time for my king.

B (40:50)

You're manifesting.

C (40:52)

My pussy is manifesting with gratitude that my king is coming. Okay. Because you have to. Your body has to align with your reality before it shows up in your life.

B (41:03)

So, like, are there kings in Italy? Like, what's going on?

C (41:06)

There are some kings in Italy. Yeah, girl.

B (41:10)

It's really that different. Kind of love it. I know. You also kind of mentioned, like, going through this experience of not feeling right in your body. You know, being on the world stage, having people comment does the exploitation to the nth degree of people feeling like they are entitled to a woman's body is so disturbing. And I also think this impossible standards that we're held to, right? Like, be hot, but don't be slutty. Like, you know, be hot, but don't be fake. Like, there's so much that we have to be like, where's the middle line? Like, how have you managed to get kind of rid of those expectations? Because, like, you are so confident now, and we need your wisdom of, like, how have you just learned to just be. Be comfortable with who you are, huh?

C (41:58)

I mean, it's been like, such a journey right from the beginning of my career. And I, you know, we've talked about this a bit, and it's been very public. Like, people have commented on my body. I internalize those comments. I make that the word of God. I try to adjust my body to somebody else's, like, what they want me to be. I went through a horrible filler phase. God, that sucked. But because I was like, oh, that's what I should do. And then I'm like, I actually don't like the way that looks. But, like, it's just like this constant dance with society on what it does mean to be a woman and what is acceptable. And. And like, also, we're not supposed to age. Like, trust me, I don't want to. But, like, I don't know what else to do. Like, I. So I just have. I try to have, like. Because my body image can get very Perfectionism me. That's like, what came up when I was, you know, in the eating disorder, which has been a while ago now. So I, like, it's interesting to talk about it because I just really wanted to be loved. And in my healing process since I got my freedom, I realized, like, wanting to be famous and wanting to be loved. All of that actually had to come from myself. And it couldn't be fake self love. It could not be performative words from a stage. I had to sit with myself and really, like, treat myself with kindness and grace and gratitude. And I sat with my leg, I tore my ACL on stage and I fucking finished that show. And I played another one. Like, I'm so grateful.

A (44:08)

But I remember, Kesha, wasn't it, that

B (44:10)

after you did that, though the headlines where you were drunk on stage, like,

C (44:14)

things like that make your blood boil? Because I don't drink before I go on stage, girl, I barely drink. Like, that's the one. Lol. That's probably a huge misconception, but, like, I don't want to have to defend myself, right?

A (44:28)

Talk to me a little bit about

B (44:29)

that Persona that you built, because I know everyone builds a form when you have to have this, like, public image, right? I feel like there was this very, like, wild child's party girl that you were bringing forth to the world, and people loved it. But, like, how intentional was that?

C (44:46)

I think that that is absolutely a part of where I was at. You know, I was in my early 20s, and I think people love a headline. We love the drama, the salacious, we love it. So it was a version of a thing I did sometimes, just like everybody at that age and it was fun, and it's funny to talk about. It's also probably more interesting to write a song about a night, a wild night, than, like, getting a car wash.

B (45:20)

Right.

C (45:21)

Like, I don't know. Now I'm gonna challenge myself.

B (45:24)

Yeah. But go right after this.

C (45:27)

At the time, it was also. I write many, many, many songs for a record. Like, I'm talking, like, a hundred plus. So. Let's just say I wanted to showcase other sides of my personality with single choices. But, like, the party thing was working.

A (45:55)

Right.

C (45:55)

And so it became almost like a caricature of itself. Which is not to say it was never, like, disingenuine. I was having a great time and having. Romping around the world. But I think the balance of that is also who I am, which didn't maybe get as much of a spotlight at the time, because one thing was really working.

B (46:16)

And how much do you think that that public Persona influenced the way people treated you?

C (46:24)

Well, I think that there has been a level of. Can write off a talent because there's auto tune or it's a silly song, or it's a pop song, or, like, there's so many ways to try to discount kind of, like, what I've done. But the cool thing is, is that I'm always like, all right, y', all go write one. Go ahead, write one. See how easy it is? Like, part of. I actually truly think this. We're talking about this earlier. But joy is such an act of resistance. A lot of times in my career, my joy has been written off as something that is not maybe that impressive. Because it's kind of silly. It's kind of fucking goofy. It's kind of just crazy. But I think to vibrate in the frequency of, like, silly goose shit is actually magical.

B (47:36)

It is.

A (47:36)

Because you don't give a fuck.

B (47:38)

And that, though, can piss people off.

C (47:40)

Totally, baby.

B (47:41)

I could have gone to Barnard. Okay, I'm. I'm really smart, and I also can be really fun and silly. And both things can exist, but you then refute. You're taking away my intellect. Because I'm having fun and I have an image and I'm leaning in. And I'm doing all these fun things because that's what everyone wants. What?

C (47:59)

To be able to put them in a box. Because we need to be able to fit them into a structure where we can make sense of it. And guess what? No. How about no?

B (48:09)

That's just not how life works with humans.

C (48:11)

I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna. I'm just not gonna like. And trust me, they're mad at me.

B (48:19)

Livid.

C (48:19)

They're mad, but I'm not.

B (48:23)

You're happy?

C (48:24)

Like, no. I'm, like, killing it. I just sold out msg. I'm chilling. So, like, they tried so hard to make me so sad. No.

B (48:36)

Can we also talk about this, Joy? Because you're right. We were talking about. For the interview, and the way you talk about it, it's so refreshing because, like, I just don't feel like, as women, and especially, like, if you're trying to forge a path for yourself and be successful, when you're smiling and you're enjoying your success, no one wants to see that.

C (49:01)

No.

B (49:01)

And it's, like, really disorienting to people, and I just, like, don't know why. I'm, like.

C (49:07)

I don't either. I think that. What do I think? I don't know. I think that when you are. I think we're all mirrors for each other. And to some, you could be a massive inspiration. And to some, you can be a reflection of what they are not achieving in their life. I know. I mean, I just know that. I feel like I have been projected upon a lot and kind of going back to the body stuff, it's like I tried to shape shift to make everybody happy. And then at some point when you do that for literally almost 20 years, you start to be like, I'm going to Italy. I'm eating the pasta. See you guys later. Eat and die.

B (50:02)

You know, Eat and die. Everyone eat and die.

C (50:08)

Well, it's just like, what a. What? I can't.

B (50:12)

Can we talk about these kings in Italy?

C (50:14)

Yeah.

B (50:14)

Let's talk about your dating life. Oh, God.

C (50:16)

Okay.

B (50:17)

Lol.

C (50:17)

Let's go.

B (50:18)

Okay. So you're celibate except for when you're in Italy.

C (50:20)

Well, I mean, like, mostly.

B (50:23)

Unless there's, like.

C (50:24)

Celibate was, like, the goal.

B (50:25)

Yeah.

C (50:26)

Progress, not perfection. Got it.

B (50:29)

Are you single?

C (50:33)

Yes.

B (50:34)

Okay.

C (50:35)

Very single.

B (50:35)

Okay. I'm gonna kind of. Well, first of all, you have a song called Red Flag.

C (50:40)

Yeah.

B (50:41)

Where you just, like, straight up admit to loving a red flag in a partner.

C (50:44)

This is why I've been mostly celibate.

B (50:47)

Okay.

C (50:47)

And I'm gonna remain very single. On purpose.

B (50:51)

Yep.

C (50:52)

Because we have worked on this trait of mine.

B (50:56)

What were some toxic traits we're not into anymore, but maybe in the past we were a little like, huh.

C (51:02)

That I think are hot.

B (51:03)

Yeah.

C (51:04)

Just, like, truly, the funnier the story, the hotter, like. Oh, God.

B (51:13)

Oh, God.

C (51:15)

I, like, just. I have just dated people I have no business dating. Just. No, I can't even call. There's like some stories I really want to tell, but I don't want to call anybody out. But like one eye, which I think is hot. Yeah, he was cool. Okay. But like the line got drawn because he just smelled kind of like a Subway sandwich that had been sitting in the back of your car for a couple of days. And like, honestly, you better work. But it was just not a match. It was like a vibe. Cuz I'm actually secretly a hippie. But like, there's a line. Yeah, for me, you know. Oh, God, okay, wait.

B (52:03)

Then I'm gonna give you some dating disasters. Oh, you tell me if any of this relates to you.

C (52:08)

Okay, go ahead, give me the story.

B (52:10)

What is the pettiest reason you've ever gotten dumped?

C (52:14)

I've only gotten dumped actually one time. And it's because the guy was dating. I kind of like thought he was probably a star. And I was like, I'm just gonna like test this theory. And so I went to the eras. Like after the tour, there was a little party and I was just like, I'm gonna pop in, take my girlfriend. I'm not gonna take the boyfriend. Just see how this goes. We were together for a year and a half. That dude came over the next day, dropped the keys off, and that was that. I was like, have you no shame? Like, couldn't you wait like 11 days or something?

B (52:52)

Him being like so angry with you.

C (52:54)

Oh, you're like, tantrum. I mean, over. If you're gonna do it over Anybody. Taylor Swift.

B (52:59)

Honestly.

C (53:00)

Fair.

B (53:00)

I was gonna say fair. Fair. Honestly, I would have a.

C (53:03)

Don't do it.

B (53:03)

Yeah, but get it together. Okay, what's the time? You completely misread the vibes and you're like, wait, no, that's. This is not how I felt.

C (53:14)

Oh, with a guy?

B (53:15)

Yeah.

C (53:15)

Misread the vibes? Well, let's just say most. Okay, let's just say I had these two athletes, two of them at the same time, and they were like, let's hang out. And I was like, I can't. Because I realized, I forget there's a word for this, but if I don't like someone's brain, I can't deal with their penis.

B (53:47)

Penis. That's it.

C (53:49)

Biosexual. But I just like, I really like, I was excited because I got my orgasm back, you know, And I was like, I'm gonna like, I'm gonna like, kind of have a hoe phase. Like, what's that like? And I can't.

B (54:03)

No, no, no.

C (54:04)

So that's. Yeah.

A (54:05)

The athlete.

B (54:08)

It sounds like a good idea. And then you get there and you're like.

C (54:13)

I was. It was like a really cute flirtation, but I just, like. I misread my own vibe in thinking that I could have a hoe face. I think I, like, just want a king. I just want, like, one. I just want to masturbate and meditate. Meditate,

B (54:32)

Dude. Okay. What is the time you found out you were potentially the other woman?

C (54:38)

Oh. Oh, well, okay. I met this guy and I was really into his brain. And then we had a little Kiki, had a little make out. It's cute.

B (54:54)

Love.

C (54:54)

But then I found out he was polyamorous.

B (54:56)

Okay.

C (54:58)

So it's not really the other woman, but it was like an open situation. And so anytime I'm met with, like, I felt very judgmental, you know, I was like, oh, I'm judging the situation. I'm judging my part of being in the situation. And then I had a conversation, and, like, it's a full blown life choice. They've been doing it for a very long time. His partner has a full blown other partner. And so I was like, I'm gonna give this a try for a moment. And it turns out it just, like, was not for me.

B (55:34)

You just want a king to yourself.

C (55:37)

I think the most, like, devotion. Oh, my God. Do you know that someone, like, built a pyramid for somebody, didn't they?

B (55:49)

I think so.

C (55:50)

Okay, so we're gonna go with it.

B (55:52)

We're gonna go back. Check. Yeah. In your mind, that's what you want. But, like, what would you want someone to build you?

C (56:02)

Like, I want a. I want a cathedral full of cats and starburst. I don't know. I just, like, want. And like a river running through it. Ooh. And like a weeping willow next to the dolphins, obviously. Obviously. That's what every woman wants, really.

B (56:24)

Clip this. Send this. Send this to him in Italy. Get started. Yes.

C (56:28)

With a manicurist. Inside of my pyramid.

B (56:34)

I love.

C (56:35)

Where are the men? Like this.

B (56:37)

So a pyramid. I. I like this. I like this for you.

C (56:41)

What do you want built?

B (56:42)

You know, I've never thought about it, but I don't think anything I could say would top what you just said. So. I'll take what she's having. You can come visit. I'll take the cats and the starbursts and the weeping willow. What is the worst meet the parents interaction you've ever had?

C (56:57)

Oh, wow. I had one in Indiana. I'm not gonna say his name. Okay. He knows who he is. He took me to Indiana, and I had only gone on, like, two dates, and it just ended up being like, I love Indiana. But, like, this particular meeting the parents after just a couple dates was, like, wildly awkward. And then everyone thinks, because I'm coming home, then we're getting married, and you had two days. Yeah, but that was my bad.

A (57:25)

See?

C (57:25)

Crazy horny. I get horny for crazy. Like, if someone's like, I know, let's do this. Like, really, it's a bad idea. And I'm like, that sounds funny. I do it for fun. I do it for, like, the book.

B (57:38)

Let's go to Indiana and meet your parents.

C (57:39)

And I'm like, oh, my God, I'm this bitch. This is the beginning of the most epic love story ever told. And then it's going to end with him building me a pyramid. And it never.

B (57:52)

In Indiana.

C (57:53)

Does this just why I'm mostly celibate.

B (57:57)

Okay. Yeah, no, I think definitely don't go meet the parents after two dates. Right.

C (58:01)

That was my bad.

B (58:02)

It was a good story. What is the biggest lie you ever caught someone in?

C (58:09)

Okay, okay. There. There was a guy. I did for, like, a long time. Okay. And I don't know, if you ask my dancers, he may not have a home.

B (58:21)

Was he living with you?

C (58:25)

I don't want to answer this question.

B (58:28)

You're like, alex, shut up. That's not. It's part of your business. That's not important. Okay. He may or may not have been living with me, and we never went to his place, but he always has an excuse.

C (58:39)

I was really busy. I was designing my chore, and then I was like, like, literally hand designing everything. And it was like, I'll go see your place when I have time. And then one thing led to another, and then the.

B (58:52)

You never saw the place because I

C (58:54)

don't know if it exists. I don't know.

B (59:04)

You know? Yeah.

C (59:07)

Yep. No, I know the red flag thing.

A (59:10)

It's.

C (59:10)

I know, but this is why I am.

B (59:13)

You're so self aware right now. You're like, I know. Like, at least you recognize it, you know? Like, you'll always be on guard now if they never are. Like, by the third time, like, want to come to mind, it has to

C (59:24)

be that I have to. Like, I need. I'm just going to. What do we do? Literally, as women, like, what do we do?

B (59:37)

Just try to. You prevail. Okay.

C (59:39)

Like, I think you just, like, serve, cunt and prevail. And, like, just close a app and call in kings. That's what I'm trying. That's like, my.

B (59:48)

We're working on it, but sometimes they

C (59:50)

don't have homes, and then you should, like, definitely not let them move in with you. Unless you do a background check first.

B (59:57)

Yeah, the background checks, Kesha.

C (59:59)

I know.

B (59:59)

Let's get on that.

C (60:00)

I know.

B (60:01)

What is the most rogue first date you've ever been on

C (60:07)

your face? Well, for my birthday, someone sent me a yacht. Not, like, as a present, but, like, for me and, like, my whole crew, but they weren't even there.

A (60:22)

Oh.

C (60:23)

So it was kind of a first date. And it was my favorite one because he wasn't there.

B (60:29)

You're like, send me shit and don't come around. You're like, that's actually the kind of relationship I want. Give me all the good things, but I don't want to ever see you. Okay. Don't annoy me. You're so fucking annoying.

C (60:42)

But send the yacht, babe, and build the pyramid.

B (60:45)

And I'll be in the pyramid alone. Okay. What is the weirdest place you've ever hooked up with someone?

C (60:54)

Hmm. Weirdest. Let me take a little walk down memory lane for a minute. Weirdest place I've ever hooked up with somebody. Like, I don't know, it's like, planes, trains and automobiles vibes. Like, on a bus. In a bus Bathroom. In a bunk. On a bus. You're on tour. Like, I'm. I'm always on tour, which is, like, kind of the thing. So, like, at a sexy bathroom, at the restaurant.

B (61:28)

Love that.

C (61:29)

I love, like, nature sex. Oh,

B (61:34)

it's the best in, like, the woods.

C (61:38)

Yeah, it's the best. Really?

B (61:42)

With, like, my sticks.

C (61:43)

Oh, and the leaves, honey.

B (61:46)

And the bark, sweetie. Yeah. And the worms get in there forever, baby. And that mud, honey. Like, what just went in my vagina? Oh, that wasn't his.

C (62:00)

No. I'm like, okay. Actually, maybe my favorite sex has been, like, body paint. Like, paint in the woods.

B (62:07)

Oh.

C (62:07)

In the grass. But there's paint and there's a canvas and there's sexiness happening.

B (62:11)

I can picture it. I like it for you.

C (62:13)

Thank you.

B (62:14)

Are you the type of person that stays friends with their exact.

C (62:18)

I do. If, like. If you're, like, a real. I'm gonna write a song about you. And, like, it is what it is. If you're not. If it's just, like, not a match. Totally.

B (62:31)

Yep.

C (62:32)

I like, to me, kind of realize now that I'm, like, free and I'm independent and I'm sovereign, and it's this whole Energy of, like, if you don't, like, with me, then love that. But just. It's like, the guys that, like, have, like, were using me to get in the paparazzi pictures or lied to me about having a home. Like, that is, like, deal breaker. It's a deal breaker.

B (62:55)

We gotta cut it off.

C (62:56)

Standards.

B (62:57)

Have you ever been cheated on?

C (62:58)

I think they know that I'm a little crazy.

B (63:05)

You're like. They ended it before because they knew you don't. No, you don't want to do that.

C (63:11)

Like, I collect human teeth.

B (63:12)

Let's talk about that. What's going on?

C (63:15)

Well, so I've been collecting them for a while now.

A (63:17)

Okay.

C (63:18)

And I make art out of them. I have my cats had to get their little teeth taken out because they were, I don't know, their little kitty wisdom teeth. I collect those, too. I'm like the tooth fairy.

B (63:28)

And didn't fans, like, used to send you their teeth?

C (63:30)

Yeah, no, they still do.

B (63:32)

And did you ask for that?

C (63:34)

Yes.

B (63:35)

What? How did. How did that come.

C (63:37)

I tweeted it.

B (63:38)

You said, what?

C (63:39)

Can you send me your teeth?

B (63:41)

Just, like, send me your teeth. Good morning. Hit me up.

C (63:45)

Love you.

B (63:46)

And what did you want to do with the teeth?

C (63:49)

Well, so I make art. I make jewelry. I've made a crown. Like a headdress. I made a belt.

B (63:54)

Wait, the thing you're carrying isn't a tooth, right?

C (63:56)

Oh, no, that's my placenta.

B (63:59)

Wait,

C (64:01)

what?

B (64:01)

Where's that? Where did it go?

C (64:03)

Oh, I lost my placenta on your.

B (64:07)

Oh, my God. Where is your placenta? You were holding it. Maybe it went down into the crevices. We'll get it after.

C (64:13)

What's in here?

B (64:14)

You were holding your placenta earlier.

C (64:16)

Yeah, I brought it in. So your placenta supposedly gives you second sight. Helps open your third eye. This is according to my mother. So she stuck it in the oven, she put it in a box, and she found it when I was, like, 21 years old in the basement. Wait, she had to, like, fight for my placenta? My mom, they tried to take my placenta away from her at the hospital, and she, like, threw a conniption fit.

B (64:41)

And she fought for it.

C (64:42)

She fought for that. So now I carry it around. She put it in the oven, wrapped it up in a box, stuck it in the basement. We found it. Throw it in the blender, pop it in a necklace.

B (64:57)

Work. Art found it. Oh, give us a little show to the camera.

C (65:06)

Okay.

B (65:07)

That's your placenta. And that's in there. And do you travel with that?

C (65:10)

Everywhere. Yeah.

B (65:11)

What does it bring you?

C (65:14)

I just feel like it's like I love a good ritual, right? Like I'm a cult leader, we all saw in the photo. And I just like, I love a ritual that reminds me of this like esoteric world I prefer to live in like down here on earth. Boring. But like when I go up into like with my spirit guides and the whole realm of angels, like that's where I prefer to be. It's kind of fun. It's like the teeth, it just reminds me when I have like a little piece of the people. I love what they're gonna throw. Where do they put teeth anyways? What do you throw them in the toilet? Yeah. Where do you like when you take your kids teeth? Tooth fairies out there?

B (66:01)

Yeah.

C (66:01)

Where do you put them?

A (66:02)

You send them to Kesha.

C (66:03)

You send them to me because like where else are you gonna put them? In the trash?

B (66:06)

Have you ever gotten anyone that you're like, oh, I gotta throw this one out. It's a little.

C (66:10)

Oh, I've gotten crazy ones and I live for it. I'm currently trying to like design a coffee table and the center. I want to just be a bowl of all the teeth. So if people want to send it to me, this is actually like art I make out of it. I live for it.

B (66:28)

You're literally the Toothberry I know.

A (66:39)

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B (69:01)

I know you once broke off an engagement. What led you to that decision? Because that must have been tough.

C (69:09)

It was really hard. It was during. I was in litigation. It was Covid. The legal bills are like coming in hot and like aggressively at a time where I could not tour. And I'm engaged to someone who is a beautiful person. But quite frankly, I just didn't see us growing together. And I think to be honest with you, there have been many people that I've dated that have felt one way or another about what I do for a living. And it's like my fans are the love of my life. Like they really are like. Like it's my longest relationship I've ever had and. And we've grown up together and they've shown up for me. They stood outside the fucking courthouse like like my fans and my music, it's like it's my life's work and. And I've had not him so much but like a little bit and other relationships that almost like will neg because maybe they are. I don't know what they feel about it, but they feel a type of way about what I do. And I just realized, especially in my freedom and independent era and like sovereignty that like I only want a partner again going back to like really wanting like a partnership that can visionary our life together. And I want them to be like, baby, be bigger, be even more. I want you to eat your healthy omega 3 fatty acids to feed your gorgeous brain. Like that's the partner I want. Like take your magnesium, you sexy.

B (71:01)

He just wants you to keep climbing and taking over instead of being like A little wiener in the corner, being like, you're outshining me, or you're getting too big, and you're like, it's so. You just can't have someone holding you back. But I think a lot of women feel like maybe I am too much. And I also think what's so admirable about that decision, regardless of the person, I think a lot of. Lot of people can relate. Like, when you get engaged, I think there's such a. It's such. It feels like it's such first a beautiful time in your life, but there are a lot of people who recognize, like, oh, my God, almost making it more finalized made me realize maybe this isn't what I want. And there's so much fear, I think, of ending it, whether, like, you already posted on Instagram that you're engaged. So, like, this is going to be so embarrassing if we call it off or people publicly know about it or the families or whatever. Like. Like, how did you deal with the emotional weight of knowing you wanted to end something, but also knowing optically, like, there's so much also that comes with that type of fallout.

C (72:03)

I think that, like, since we're. Speak for myself, since I was a little girl, yeah, I have seen many movies, read many books. There are many stories about how one of my life's greatest missions is to find my soulmate, my missing piece, the person that will complete me and really, like, give my whole life meaning. And I realized, you know, going from being not free and not sovereign to sovereign and free, that I'd really like to challenge that and. And feel whole and complete on my own. And ending something with someone is always difficult, especially if you love them, especially if you've integrated your life with their family. But I think kind of going back to the samurai piece, like, your gut is gonna tell you if you are with the right partner. And my gut became unavoidable, and I. And I had to weigh the option of honoring myself or doing something that is. It's horrible to break up with someone you love. It's so difficult. And I have so much love for him and his family. They're beautiful, beautiful people. It just. I just didn't feel like we were growing in the. In the same direction. And, like. Like, I'm wildly ambitious and. And he was more comfortable. He was more satisfied, which I'm not saying that one is better than the other. I actually sometimes wish I could just be more satisfied and chill.

B (73:50)

It just didn't match.

C (73:50)

It just didn't. It wasn't a Match, like, at the end. And it was really difficult, but we're still friends. And I had so much love for him. He's a really good person.

B (73:59)

I love that. And I think also, just women listening, that's such a good testament, too, to, like. Like, when you deny what you're feeling in your gut, it's never going to go away. You can put band aids on it, you can ignore it, but, like, you're only just prolonging the pain more and more. And so, although sometimes making a really, really hard decision in that moment can feel excruciating and uncomfortable, you're then already in the process of moving forward with what you know in your gut you're supposed to do. And the more that you avoid it, you're just going to continue to live a life where, like, you're not being authentic and honest yourself, and that will eat you alive inside.

A (74:33)

And it's kind of not fair to the partner that you're with.

B (74:35)

They deserve to be with someone also that is wholeheartedly in it with them. And so sometimes it really is the selfless thing to do as much as it feels selfish in the moment.

C (74:47)

What's interesting, this idea of selfish versus selfless. And I think self care really does include honoring yourself and your highest good, because we each have that over ourselves. So to try to people please, to remain in relationship with someone, it is actually quite unfair to both of you. And you have one life. Like, you are born into this life with your one life. And I hope that everyone out there finds exactly what they want in this life. Like, you deserve that. And if you go down a road, like, you can begin again every second of every day, it is never too late. Like, I am 39 years old, and I just went on the biggest tour of my life almost 20 years after my biggest song came out. Like, and to get there, my God, was that a road? It was a difficult road. But I had to honor my truth. I had to honor myself. I had to go through what I went through to get there. I had to break up with someone I love, I still love, and I'm so grateful for. I had to have all my fucking medical records on the Internet. I had to have the ugly filler phase. Like, I had to have all these things that were so intolerably painful at the time. And I can sit here and talk to you and be so grateful. I went through that because I feel so free. And I just. I want that for, like, everyone. I want everyone to really feel in their authenticity and, like, connected to Their highest version of themselves.

B (76:39)

I'm so happy for you. Like, everything you've went through it. That's why I think so many people love you. Not that you should have had to go through it, but, like, you sitting here, I mean, you have new music out, your new single, Origami. Like, I want to talk about it because it's like, what was the inspiration behind this song?

C (76:55)

Yeah, I have a new song coming out called Origami, and it is. I am having a fun time immortalizing this reclaiming of my sexuality. The past, like, year and a half, two years, I'm reclaiming myself. And part of that is my sexuality. And this is a song that's about, you know, bend me, twist me, how you want me, baby, make me. Origami

B (77:27)

In Italy, you know, Just in Italy, though. Just in Italy. Is there an album that would be coming with this as well?

C (77:37)

I'm trying to figure it out because, my God, there are a lot of songs.

B (77:41)

You said you always do, like, a hundred.

C (77:44)

Lots of songs are happening at all times.

B (77:46)

You're writing.

C (77:47)

I'm writing all the time. I mean, my God. So, like, tbd, exactly what form it's going to be in. But there is a new song that's, like, so cunty, and it's really fun. And it's just like, celebrating being in your body and quite frankly, like, having so much fun again in my body at 39 years old, having gone through hell and back.

A (78:15)

Yeah.

C (78:16)

And I'm having the best time, and I feel like I gotta sing songs about it.

B (78:20)

Absolutely.

C (78:21)

Yeah.

B (78:21)

You are going on the Freedom Tour this summer.

C (78:24)

Yes.

B (78:25)

What can fans expect from that?

C (78:27)

Well, so I kind of was. I had all this. My story. My trauma was, like, trapped in my body. And I did a psychedelic assisted therapy that was really helpful for me in my anxiety. And I kind of was like, how can I tell the story? How can I ever get this all out of my body? And my body was like, bitch, you have you. Ha. You're playing the Forum. What are you talking about? It's like, no, but I can't say the whole parts of the story. Like, I can't talk about it. And my leg was like, put it in the show. So I tell basically my life story through my life's work.

B (79:11)

Work.

C (79:13)

And that's why it's the Freedom Tour. Wow. Because I go through, like, I go through the story in the only way that I can, through my life's work. And the goal is to create love for myself, love with my community, and to really walk through this world in, like, freedom and sovereignty. So beautiful. Yeah. And. And it's like gay church. Let's go. Right?

B (79:39)

Let's go.

C (79:41)

It was the first time I've ever headlined msg.

B (79:43)

Congratulations.

C (79:44)

Thank you.

B (79:45)

What did that feel like?

C (79:47)

Well, first of all, I was sold out, girl. I can't.

B (79:50)

How did you feel just, like, chilling in your dressing room before hearing everyone screaming.

C (79:55)

Cassie Ventura sends me this massive bouquet of these beautiful pink roses before I

B (80:01)

go out on Sweet Angel.

C (80:03)

I have chills all over my body talking about it. Oh, I know. And my whole family is there and it is sold out. And I just can't tell you, like, feeling because Cassie was in the room when I recorded the song. Tick tock. Yeah.

B (80:24)

Oh, so she's been there since day one.

C (80:26)

Yeah.

B (80:27)

Wow.

C (80:28)

Yeah.

B (80:29)

Oh, wow. And then everything. You guys have both individually been through with horrific, unimaginable situations to then now be on the other side of it and both be able to be together. I don't want to speak for you, but, like, I'm seeing you, like, smile and nod and all of it. It's like, whoa. How emotional was that?

C (80:49)

Oh, like, so. And like, she just had a baby and she seems to be doing so well and I'm so happy for her. It, like, feels so good to witness that. Yeah.

B (81:06)

And I'm sure she feels the same about you.

C (81:09)

I know. It's. It's just like, such a moment. And it was like, one of the most special nights of my life because there's this, like, hard curfew at msg and if you go over one minute, it's like a very bad. It's a big, big trouble. And the crowd literally started cheering and, like, didn't stop for, I think it was like 10 or 11 minutes to the point where everyone's freaking out in my in ears, being like, like, you have to start the next song.

B (81:36)

You're gonna get tackled off the stage.

C (81:40)

You're fired from New York City forever. And I just was like, no, this is like, I have waited for this kind. I felt I was like, I'm not stopping them. There's no way. I sat alone in my house and, like, truly questioned the point of. Of living any longer for almost a decade. And I'm gonna stop them. CHEERING Charge it to the card, baby.

B (82:12)

It's worth it. Oh, I can't even imagine. Did you feel in your body in that moment?

C (82:18)

I literally felt like my heart. People, like, say heart chakra. Whatever it was, I felt my literal heart. It felt like someone was tearing the Fascial tissue apart. And I literally felt my heart open in a way that I don't think I've ever felt anything like, in my entire life. And it was so. That's what I was saying to you earlier. Like, the fans, I hope, had an amazing time this summer, but I don't think they're ever going to really be able to understand what that did for me. Like, that night alone was. It was like a turning point in my life. It was one of the greatest nights of my entire life.

B (83:00)

I can't even imagine what's so beautiful about the industry, because I know there's so many much pain, obviously, that it's brought you, but for you to be able to do the thing that you love so much and that you're so passionate about, you're so talented and do it and get so much fulfillment and healing out of it, but then also to simultaneously be giving such happiness also to your fans, like, you're being able to do both at the same time. Like, what a beautiful gift that you're giving everyone and yourself included, because you should put yourself first right now at this time in your life. But the fact that putting yourself first means you want to get on that stage, and that's your healing process. Like, I can only imagine what your fans feel in the crowd. Like, they must feel that from you.

C (83:47)

Well, I mean, God, they were there at the beginning, and we were having fun, and then a bunch of happened, and it was, like. Was sad and hard, and like, now I'm like, now, let's celebrate like, that. We also have each other in this life. It might be an unusual form of community, but, like, that's my community. I've been doing this for a long

B (84:12)

time, and half of the time, again, unfortunately, you shouldn't have to go through it, but when you go through harder, it brings you even closer to the people that you love, because you can be like, it. Even. It's. It's that much sweeter that we get to stand here and say, I'm free, and we get to enjoy it that much more because we felt it almost be taken away.

C (84:31)

Yeah. And.

B (84:33)

Wow.

C (84:33)

And I do think that's, like, the art of. I'm writing a book, okay. And it's called the Alchemy of Pop. It's not gonna be ready for a while.

B (84:42)

Okay. We'll be waiting.

C (84:44)

But, like, it's gonna be great, but it's gonna take me a while.

B (84:47)

Yeah.

C (84:47)

But it's all about alchemizing your experiences in this life. Anything that happens to you. Like, I have found that I can take it, and I try to alchemize it into something that can help someone else somehow. And, like, to your point, like, that's what I've tried to do with my experiences in life. I try to put them into a song. It helps me, and then I really hope it helps other people.

B (85:13)

Last two questions. I feel like I could talk to you for nine hours. How would you describe this current era of your life that you are now in and continuing to, like, enter into?

C (85:25)

I think I'm just so. For the first time in a long time, I feel so safe in my body and in the world. And I know that's maybe a crazy thing to say because the world is crazy, but it's the first time that I've ever felt this. And so I would like to create safe places for people, whatever that means. So I'm just really open to the universe. I would love the universe to show me, like, what is the best way to do to. To do that for other people.

B (86:13)

Yeah.

C (86:13)

Because it was like. Yeah. To. To feel safe is everything. And I would love to. To help other people feel safe. Yeah. So I'm, like, open to what that means, but that's. I'm in a place where I feel very grateful to be alive and to have lived through what I lived through and to feel safe. And now I would like to help pay that forward. Wow. Yeah.

B (86:43)

For fans who have been with you since day one, what message would you want to leave them with with today?

C (86:52)

I literally, truly though you're actually the love of my life. Like, I think about all these silly goose men, come and go, my animals. Like, I'm so grateful and I'm sorry. Your mother's had lots of phases. You're like, girl, thank you for loving me through all of them. And I just. I'm so. I'm so lucky. I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful, and I'm just, like, very. I'm just so grateful, and I want to just continue to create safe spaces for you to come and be, like, authentically as weird as you want to be. So hopefully I'll see you on summer tour and, like, be weird. Be so weird.

B (87:49)

I feel like I can speak for everyone when we say, like, we love you so much and we are so happy that you are at a place where you do feel safe in your life because you deserve it more than anything. And I am so happy for you and your career, all that you've accomplished. We could have sat here for hours and talked about every single song you've ever released, every single tour you've been on, every single thing you've accomplished. Like, like there's too much and it's so crazy. Like it's still going and it's still coming. And I'm just so happy for you. You're such a beautiful, interesting, intelligent person. And I'm so happy I got to sit down with you. Like, I never know what to expect. Like, this is why I love my job. I get to sit down and I think I know from researching, but you're even more incredible than I could have ever imagined, so. And thank you for your time because I know you haven't done a long form interview in a really long time.

C (88:41)

Yeah, I don't think I've done it. I got out of litigation, so thank you for making me feel safe.

B (88:46)

It was my absolute, absolute honor. Thank you.

C (88:49)

Well, creating a safe space allows us to be silly geese. And that is the goal, honey.

B (88:56)

Cash out. Thank you for coming on. Call her daddy.

C (88:58)

Thanks for having me.

A (89:09)

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