Nara Smith: Stop Calling Me a Tradwife

Summary

CALL HER DADDY — “NARA SMITH: STOP CALLING ME A TRADWIFE” Host: Alex Cooper
Guest: Nara Smith
Date: July 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging, deeply personal episode, Alex Cooper sits down with viral sensation and self-made businesswoman Nara Smith. Known for her dreamy kitchen videos, couture fashion, and making everything from scratch (even chewing gum!), Nara opens up about the misconceptions surrounding her online persona—especially being wrongly labeled a “tradwife” (traditional wife). The conversation covers internet fame, motherhood, marriage, business strategy, fashion, and the recent battle her family faced with their daughter's cancer diagnosis. With honesty and vulnerability, Nara addresses both her private challenges and public image, offering a nuanced perspective on the modern woman’s experience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sharing Personal Family Hardships Online ([03:16]-[04:37])

• Nara recently revealed her daughter Whimsy’s cancer diagnosis. She explains this decision came from wanting to make other families feel less isolated, and how it brought community support into her life.
• Notable Quote:

  “By sharing it, it opened up that whole world to me, to where my DMs were flooded with parents going through the same thing and being really consolidated almost by what I posted.” — Nara ([04:17])

2. Genesis of the Viral “Nara Smith” Persona ([05:28]-[08:46])

• Nara’s content originated while coping with autoimmune disease and resultant eczema; she began making food from scratch for health reasons.
• The soft, whispered voice was born out of necessity (not waking her child), later becoming iconic.
• Fashion and voice choices overlapped during COVID: “I didn’t have anywhere to wear my fun outfits, so I wore them in the kitchen.”
• Her first viral video featured homemade bread and jam at the request of her children.

3. Turning Viral Success Into Business ([08:46]-[11:30])

• Virality escalated during pregnancy with her third baby, Whimsy. The business side evolved “organically.”
• Nara films, styles, and edits everything herself, usually working after the kids go to sleep.
• Notable Quote:

  “There was no option but to film and get the video up.” — Nara ([10:40])

4. The Culinary Extremes: Authenticity vs. “Is This Real?” ([14:06]-[15:22])

• Nara discusses the intentionality of creating “impossible” recipes, like homemade gum and cereal. Some are challenges from her husband, some are whims, others are brainstormed at the grocery store.

5. Fashion Evolution and Womanhood Representation ([15:22]-[17:26])

• Style started with pregnancy practicality but turned into a statement; her early videos triggered “tradwife” comparisons due to the visuals of femininity, kitchens, and care work.
• “I felt very feminine during that pregnancy, so that’s kind of what I naturally gravitated towards. That kind of expressed itself in the cute collars, colors, and very feminine dresses.” — Nara ([16:13])

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The “Tradwife” Narrative: Addressing Misconceptions

6. Mislabeling and Public Perception ([17:26]-[24:58])

• Nara describes bewilderment at being cast as a “tradwife,” providing a point-by-point debunking:
  • She’s a full-time working mom, not a homemaker.
  • Her husband is not the sole breadwinner; they split household and childcare 50/50; she dislikes cleaning.
• Notable Quotes:

  “With that definition and those points, I’m none of that. ... I don’t prioritize being a homemaker. I’m a working mom.” — Nara ([19:43])
  “My husband and I split it 50/50. When he works, I watch them; when I work, he watches them.” — Nara ([19:46])

• Alex compares this to assumptions made about “Call Her Daddy,” noting society’s tendency to pigeonhole women in media.
• Nara tried correcting the narrative via social posts, but found some people “do not want to be corrected.”

7. Relationship Dynamics & Evolving the Narrative ([25:18]-[29:40])

• Early video tropes (making food for her husband) led to assumptions of strict gender roles, but reality is far more egalitarian.
• Nara admits she sometimes leans in for tongue-in-cheek effect (“If it’s working, even if it’s pissing people off, you’re still gonna put on the dress.” — Alex [27:06]), but her personal style and content have evolved.
• Nara on pushing against boxed-in gender roles:

  “Why can’t we be a working mom who enjoys cooking, who enjoys being at home and taking care of our kids, but also is on the next plane out to LA to take business meetings?” ([21:17])

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Online Boundaries, Privacy, and Parenting ([33:40]-[38:50])

8. Sharing and Protecting Her Children

• Nara shares how witnessing disturbing comments about her child led to stricter boundaries on posting her kids’ faces.
• Notable Quote:

  “I realized I’m actually doing my kids a disservice by exposing them and making them vulnerable on the Internet.” — Nara ([35:00])

9. Boundaries, Judgment, and Misconceptions About “Mom Life”

• Nara and Alex discuss the double bind: if you don’t post your kids, people assume you’re absent as a mother.
• Quote:

  “If I were to turn this camera around, you would see four screaming kids and Lucky trying to wrangle them all. ... All you see is me in my pretty dress making Skittles.” — Nara ([38:50])

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Motherhood, Upbringing, & Mental Health ([39:17]-[59:52])

10. Parenting Values & Childhood Lessons ([39:17]-[42:39])

• Nara describes being raised with curiosity and knowledge-seeking; she aims to replicate this with her own kids.
• She wants to do differently by being more patient than her parents were.

11. Marriage, Conflict & Therapy ([43:44]-[45:48])

• Growing up with parents in a tumultuous marriage required conscious unlearning in her own adult relationships; couples therapy has been key for her and Lucky.

12. Postpartum Realities—Mental and Physical ([45:53]-[59:52])

• Nara gets real about struggling with postpartum anxiety, dissociation, and intrusive thoughts, especially after her fourth child.
• She describes feeling pressure to “bounce back” physically while emotionally crumbling.
• Notable Quotes:

  “Every morning I’d wake up looking at this baby being like, who are you? And I’d never had that experience before, and that was really, really hard.” — Nara ([50:48])
  “You literally, literally, you’ve grown a human being. ... And then what, you’re just supposed to resume business as usual? No, that’s, like, physically not how it works and mentally not how it works.” ([55:29])

• The stigma, silence, and lack of social support surrounding postpartum depression and anxiety are discussed at length.
• Both Alex and Nara stress the importance of open conversation and seeking help.

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Navigating Family Crisis: Childhood Cancer ([60:16]-[74:04])

13. Sharing Whimsy’s Diagnosis and Community Support ([60:16]-[62:46])

• Nara and Lucky debated whether, when, and how to share their daughter’s illness, ultimately choosing openness to foster community for other struggling parents.
• Notable Quote:

  “If I use my platform to make even just one person feel less alone, I can do that. And that’s kind of why we shared it.” — Nara ([62:38])

14. Family Coping Mechanisms and Emotional Impact ([62:46]-[74:04])

• The emotional rollercoaster of diagnosis, treatment, and trying to parent other kids while staying present for a sick child.
• Nara and Lucky’s strengthened partnership, honest communication, and friendship as a couple are credited for getting their family through the ordeal.
• Notable Quote (about Lucky):

  “There was not a single moment where he didn’t show up for whimsy, for me, for the kids, for everybody, as like a strong partner and father.” ([73:23])

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Building a Brand: Cookbook, Content, Longevity ([77:07]-[95:35])

15. Business Growth and Cookbook “Homemade” ([77:07]-[81:08])

• Release of Nara’s cookbook, blending unique from-scratch recipes with her personal story; driven by community demand.
• The cookbook mixes her “kookier” recipes (e.g., homemade Oreos, Cheez-Its) with approachable family meals.

16. Family Influence on Cooking ([78:45]-[80:21])

• Nara reminisces about formative time in her grandmother’s kitchen and the value of passing down recipes and traditions.

17. Making Cooking Approachable ([82:53]-[83:09])

• She reassures that her recipes are accessible to home cooks, with trial and error being part of the process.

18. Quickfire “What Should I Cook?” Scenarios ([86:32]-[93:01])

• Roast chicken for dinners, bread and jam for kids, tacos for in-laws, chocolate chip cookie ice cream sandwiches for late-night cravings.
• She gives practical shortcuts and admits to ordering takeout, especially for cuisines she doesn’t want to make.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Debunking the Tradwife Narrative

• “It was bizarre to me for a multitude of reasons.”
• “Why can’t we do it all?... A woman can exist under any terms, but the little boxes we put them in.” — Nara ([21:58])

On Social Media & Privacy

• “I’m actually doing my kids a disservice by exposing them and making them vulnerable on the Internet.” — Nara ([35:00])

On Business Evolution

• “Everything kind of went insanely viral when I was pregnant with my third baby, Whimsy… But then obviously the more I did it, and the more deals came in... I could actually do this as a job and have the flexibility of being at home with my kids…” — Nara ([09:14])

On Marriage & Partnership

• “He’s my best friend... our friendship and our understanding of each other really, really helped in every aspect.” — Nara ([76:10])

On Motherhood and Mental Health

• “Give yourself grace and also recognize that you literally, literally, you’ve grown a human being... And then what, you’re just supposed to resume business as usual? No, that’s... not how it works.” — Nara ([55:34])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:16] — Opening up about Whimsy’s cancer diagnosis
• [05:28] — Origins of Nara’s viral videos
• [08:46] — Turning the hobby into a business
• [14:06] — Going viral for extreme from-scratch recipes
• [17:26] — The “tradwife” misconception
• [33:40] — Social media boundaries regarding her children
• [45:53] — Postpartum anxiety & motherhood’s mental toll
• [60:16] — Decision to share Whimsy's diagnosis publicly
• [62:46] — Emotional impact, family dynamics during illness
• [77:07] — Launching her cookbook “Homemade”
• [86:32] — Rapid-fire cooking scenario Q&A

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Final Reflections & Tone

This episode is layered—thoughtful, emotionally raw, and at times light-hearted. Nara and Alex’s rapport balances candor and warmth. Key themes include refusing to be boxed in by narrow definitions of womanhood, the realities behind viral perfection, and a celebration of women’s complexity and resilience.

Closing Message:
Nara embraces her multifaceted identity, advocating for media literacy, nuanced perceptions, and the right of women to exist—and thrive—on their own terms.
As Alex concludes:

“Let’s celebrate women who are multifaceted... Instead of that being a threat and something we want to ignore or downplay, let’s look, celebrate it. Celebrate it.” ([95:35])

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Nar recently you shared.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Online. That your daughter, Whimsy was diagnosed with cancer. Yeah. And first I just want to say, like, I am so sorry for what you and your daughter and your family are going through. I truly cannot imagine. So just like all the condolences sent your way, something that I really was struck by is that when you shared it online, you kind of talked about how you were hoping that sharing would allow other families to maybe feel less alone and be able to feel like there are other people going through what you're going through. And I thought that was really beautiful. And I hope that maybe our conversation today can give a little bit of that to anyone watching, too.

[B]

Yeah, I hope that too. I think there's something so beautiful and grounding and supportive about having a community. And you feel like when something bad happens in your life that it's usually a very isolating experience to where you feel like no one else would get it or no one really understands or all these different things. But the more time I spend in the hospital and kind of seeking that community myself, the more I realize that there's actually a lot more parents going through the exact same thing, maybe in different ways, but essentially the same thing as me. And I think also by sharing it, it opened up that whole world to me, to where my DMs were flooded with parents going through the same thing and being really consolidated almost by what I posted.

[A]

So I can't even imagine. And I think that's going to be a huge topic today is like so much of your life is online, obviously. And we'll get to that. Because you didn't, you, you chose to share it at a very specific time, obviously. But let's go back to the beginning. Okay. Because I was thinking about it this morning and I'm like, what were you thinking about? I was like, I feel like Everyone remembers the first Nara Smith video they saw.

[B]

Okay, what was your one that you saw?

[A]

Mine was like, you were in your old kitchen.

[B]

Oh, yeah, the Dallas one.

[A]

You did the classic, like, my husband said he was hungry for. And I literally just looked, and I was like, oh, my God. But I feel like everyone has that core memory of, like. I know. I remember when she first popped on the scene for me. But to anyone who maybe lives under a rock that is watching this, can you explain what people can expect in one of your videos?

[B]

I think it's all. It's. It was born out of this very. It was very coincidental. Like, we. Okay, so let me go back. I had my second son, my first son, my second baby, and I was feeling really crappy, and I didn't know what was going on. So I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, and my eczema started flaring up really bad to the point where I genuinely felt crippled by it because I couldn't really go out. I couldn't use my hands. I couldn't brush my hair. It was this. The bob also came from that because I was like, I can't do my curls anymore because of all these health issues. So then I also. Not being from America, I didn't quite know what it meant eating processed food here because a lot of ingredients in our food are not good for us. So then I kind of did so much research to the point where I was like, okay, well, I guess I'll just have to make everything from scratch, because that feels the safest to me. So I started doing that and then got on TikTok and started sharing that, and that's when the whole situation kind of happened. And then during COVID I couldn't really wear any of my fun outfits anywhere, so I decided to wear them in the kitchen. My daughters loved it, and it was just this thing that kind of happened. And then the voice, I think there's, like, components to my content. It's the cooking from scratch, and then there's the fashion, and then there's the voice. And all of these. These pieces were born individually. Like, the voice came from me having put my baby down, and I was like, I've just spent so much time putting you down. There's no way I'm gonna jeopardize waking you up.

[A]

But we got. Mom's gotta work.

[B]

But I. I gotta get this video up. I take no days off, so we just gotta make it happen. So I spoke really softly and quietly, and I didn't wake my kid. Up. And then I posted it and then that's how the voice kind of came about. So everything was born out of this, like, really innocent place.

[A]

It's really crazy to know because I feel like everyone knows that voice and even people have recreated it, obviously. Like, now people do their Nara Smith voice and it's wild to be like, you were just like, quickly like, oh, I got to get this up and I'm just going to whisper. But then after that you're like, okay, people clearly like it. Now I'm going to give it to them. Yeah, because sometimes you don't always do the voice right when I do.

[B]

So when I do my voiceovers, usually I do the voice and then when I do talking directly to camera, it's usually my normal voice. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then people always say, you're yelling at us. I'm like, I'm so sorry.

[A]

Like, I'm just talking normal. But you're used to whispering. Okay. What post do you remember first going viral?

[B]

It was this one post where we had a bunch of peaches at home and my kids actually wanted bread and jam. Right. Every. Like, my kids love bread and jam. So I was like, okay, great, let me just make bread for the first time on camera. Why not? So I did and. And that was the first video that kind of popped off because I was like, my kids stumbled into my room asking me for bread and jam and they actually did. Did it take hours to make?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did they still enjoy it and ask for it? Yes. So that was the first video. And then after that, I didn't really tap into it for a while. I kind of just sprinkled it in because I didn't quite realize that people would want that. And then I kind of just continued doing it.

[A]

So it started a little bit as like a. This just so happened. And you're like kind of obviously recognizing, okay, people like a little bit of this, a little bit of this. But like, you now have gone on to create and curate such specific branded world. When do you think this clear vision kind of came to fruition for you where you were like, this is a business for me and I actually can execute this on a level that's not just like a fun happen chance thing.

[B]

I think it kind of took a minute. I was. Everything kind of went insanely viral when I was pregnant with my third baby, Whimsy, and I didn't really see it as a business. I was like, oh, great, I'm earning. Like, I'm earning money. All of a sudden, I can do this. But I never thought about it as anything bigger. But then obviously the more I did it and the more deals came in and the more conversations I kind of had with my agents at the time, the more I kind of realized, oh, I could actually do this as a job and have the flexibility of being at home with my kids and kind of figuring that part out. And then obviously now it's evolved into this full scale business that I'm still executing myself, which is crazy. Like, I film, I pick the outfits, I pick the recipe, I film it myself on a tripod, I edit it myself, and then when the kids go to sleep, I do the voiceover, get it up the next day. So it's basically a one man show, woman show. And yeah, it's been, it's been really eye opening to now be able to basically do whatever I feel like. It's really fun, obviously, because again, it's

[A]

starting as this like fun side thing. Do you remember the moment where you sat down with your husband and you were like, I think I really want to lean in and like fully put time and effort into this in a business capacity, not just like a, oh, I actually have some time on Sunday. Let's do this. Like, do you remember when you had that type of conversation together?

[B]

Yeah, we had that conversation in my first kitchen that you probably remember. But I think it was more so him. He was like, you know, you can just do this. And I'm like, yeah, I guess. And he's like, no, like you actually can. And that's. I think those conversations kind of happen, but I think they kind of happen naturally because I'm a very ambitious and driven and hard working woman to where there was no option but to film and get the video up. So it wasn't even a conversation where I was asking for permission or asking for anything really. I was just like, well, got to watch the kids, hun, because I got a film. And that happened more and more. And he's like, well, can you maybe come up with a better schedule because

[A]

this seems a little hectic.

[B]

I'm like, yeah, okay. But I think it just kind of organically happened. But there was no other option in my mind because if I do something, I do it.

[A]

So I love that so much. I love that you're like lucky, sorry, but like, get on board.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

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[B]

What are you gonna tell me?

[A]

But then you look at things that you've made from scratch, okay? And we've got. We've got cough drops, we've got cereal, we've got chewing gum.

[B]

I love a good homemade gum.

[A]

No, no, the chewing gum. I was like, I Can't believe this woman. No, I. I was like, there's. There's no way. And I think that's how some people feel. They're like, is she actually being serious? Is this real? Does she actually make it homemade? Like, I. I guess my question is, like, how intentional are you about selecting recipes that, you know, people will have? The reaction I just had where you're like, no way.

[B]

I think it really depends. It sometimes gets born out of me seeing something at the grocery store and being like, can I make this at home? Sometimes it's Lucky telling me, oh, I really want you to make me. Takis. Like, do you think you can do that? Because he's obsessed. Like, obsessed with talkies. So I'm like, I'll make it for you. Or I think about these random things and challenge myself. So it kind of is. And sometimes I'm like, I think this would be really fun. So it really is this. Like, it's a mix of different things.

[A]

Okay, that's fair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Your fashion choices have evolved. They have. I feel like when I was looking back at your earlier videos, it was like a cute. It was very cute, like, dress.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Sometimes a little apron on. More realistic, I guess you could say. Now, obviously, we're hitting full couture in the kitchen, baby. The gloves, the one with the gloves,

[B]

the scalp gloves, the ones with the nails. I was terrified of ruining them. I'm like, I'm so sorry, Daniel. Just making some rice pudding.

[A]

It is crazy, though, to see that evolution. Can you talk to me, though, about those beginning days of. Yes. I know you said, like, I wasn't getting to wear any of my cute outfits. Gets out of COVID You know, you're in your kitchen. But, like, did you also have any understanding of the way that you were presenting and what you wanted to present as. As a woman in these videos that you were making?

[B]

Yeah, I think that one's a tricky question because at the time when everything kind of started for me, I was pregnant. So I'm the type of person, I will never buy maternity clothes. I refuse. I'm not going to do that. But that was just me. I didn't want to do that ever. So I was a very, like, jeans and, like, T shirt type girl. Obviously, I loved my fashion, but I was also street style girl when I lived in Europe before. So I told Lucky when we dated, I was like, I'm never gonna wear a dress. Like, good luck. And then when I was pregnant with my third, I was like, well, can't really wear my Pants, I guess, dresses. And then those were the dresses that I would naturally gravitate towards, like the very cute. I felt very feminine during that pregnancy, so that's kind of what I naturally gravitated towards. And that kind of expressed itself in the cute collar colors and the very feminine looking dresses that I guess people connected with different things. But that wasn't like intentional. It was more so I was pregnant, I needed to wear a dress. And I felt very like whimsical and feminine during that. So that's kind of what my fashion choices reflected. And I didn't fit a lot of like couture dresses because I had a bump.

[A]

You had a bump. That that's where. And I'm sure you can kind of.

[B]

Yeah, let's get into it.

[A]

I can feel, you can probably feel where I'm going with this girl because I'm like, there was an image that started to be created and while people loved your content, I think a larger conversation really started to bud from Nara Smith and who she was and what she was standing for and what she was representing for women. What do you remember just about the early commentary around you and your brand and your videos?

[B]

I, at that point I was very much online, so I would read the comments, I'd be like, well, this is weird because I don't feel like that. And my reality is so different to what people are assuming based off of the 1 1/2 minute videos they see. So I was very confused where that conversation came from. But then the more I like read about it, I'm like, you know what? Yeah, but I'm also correcting the narrative, but you're not listening. So.

[A]

Yeah, so let's call it what it is. So people started to compare you to trad wife. Yeah, and people were kind of used

[B]

me as the poster child for the trad wife movement, which was very bizarre to me.

[A]

Why was that bizarre to you?

[B]

It was bizarre to me for a multitude of reasons. But let's, you know what, let's Google what the definition of a trad wife is.

[A]

Well, that's perfect. I'm actually going to ask you, what do you consider a trad wife?

[B]

Well, I had to look up the term because. Because I wasn't familiar with that. Right. I didn't quite know what it means, but the fast answer is a trad wife is a woman who embraces or promotes a traditional model of marriage and family life where she typically prioritizes being a homemaker and a primary caregiver for kids, takes primary responsibility for cooking Cleaning and managing the household. Supports her husband's role as the primary breadwinner. Often values traditional gender roles within marriage. So with that definition and those points, I'm none of that. And we can go through it point by point. I don't prioritize being a homemaker. I'm a working mom. Like, I am out in la. I travel a lot. I sure do. I love cooking because it's my passion and because I kind of have to do it, given my autoimmune. Absolutely. But that's a passion of mine. It's a hobby. It's not something that I need to be doing for what?

[A]

Right, right. Keep going. I like this, you know, Good. This is good.

[B]

Primary caregiver for my kids. No. My husband and I split it 50. 50. Like, when he works, I watch them. When I work, he watches them. And now, given everything that's been going on, we also have help. My mom's out. We have someone that helps us with the kids because it's just not doable for me to do it all. So that doesn't really work. Right. Takes primary responsibility for cooking, cleaning, and managing the household. Yeah, I like to cook.

[A]

Cook.

[B]

Okay, sue me. I like to cook. My husband burns everything apart from a good steak, so he'll do that. But I like cooking, so I'm doing it household and cleaning. He does the dishes. I don't touch the dishes. There's no way you're gonna see me washing and scrubbing the dishes. Also, he cleans our house because he grew up. He grew.

[A]

That's lucky. Okay.

[B]

His mom was, like, very, very specific with cleaning to where they had, like, like, Saturday crew. And, like, he has sisters. So, like, someone was in charge of the baseboard. Someone was in charge of the toilet. Someone was in charge of this. So he's, like, very, like, specific with how things need to be cleaned. So he does it perfect. So that doesn't make any sense. Supports the husband's role as the primary breadwinner. No, we both work like that. That doesn't make any sense. Like, I provide for our family.

[A]

So really, I think what's happening is they're taking the image of a woman in a kitchen in a gorgeous. Yeah. Dress. And they are assuming that this is your life and we are going back in time, and this is, like, a very traditional.

[B]

I think there's also a bigger conversation to be had because everything that I've been reading online, I find it very concerning almost, that we need to put women in very specific, very narrow boxes in order to make sense of them? I don't think so. Why can't we do it all? Why can't we be a working mom that enjoys cooking, that enjoys being at home and taking care of our kids, but also is on the next plane out to LA to take business meetings with big executives? Like, why. Why is. Why can't that coexist? And I think that's something that's very concerning to me, that a woman can't exist under any terms, but the little boxes we put them in.

[A]

And, you know, media literacy is another issue. But it's like, I do think that you are creating a brand. Right. And so you're seeing consistently that something is working. And I guess when I think about that, though, some people could argue, okay, well, the way that you're presenting, we're only really seeing for a while. One version of you, which is a lot of the videos you started with, is saying, like, my husband is craving this, so I'm gonna make him this. And so it leaves a lot of room for assumptions. Right. Well, she looks like she's wearing the dress. She looks this way. She's making this for her husband. And so some people could argue, well, for a while, we didn't see the business side of you. We didn't know any of this. So we were assuming that you're just, like, stuck in the kitchen making these things. But obviously now, as you've opened up more, like, we're getting to know a little bit more about you. Yeah. So did you at all see why people could think that way in the beginning?

[B]

Yeah, 100%.

[A]

How did you deal with that, though?

[B]

Crying to my husband. I'd be like, what is happening? Did they not know that I worked as a model? I've been working since I've been 14. Like, all these things. But I think I. I am very fair and compassionate. Like, I understand where that can come from. But then the more that narrative started swelling, I was like, well, let me say something. So I remember posting this video of this, like, morning routine, and my voiceover was me being a working mom and traveling and kind of debunking all of that. But then a lot of the were still that narrative. And I realized that a lot of the people that are very, very stuck in this narrative do not want to be corrected.

[A]

They don't want to hear that. No.

[B]

There was this one situation with someone on my team where we were trying to work with this person, and the person was like, I don't care what you say, what you do, what you show me What Forbes articles you show me of her business. Like, she is a trad wife to me, and I don't want to work with her. So that kind of opened my eyes as well to the like. Like, to the opposite end of. I think I could sit here all day and try to deep try to debunk this narrative when some people, not everyone, but some people just don't want to be corrected.

[A]

No, they don't. And I also think there is a frustration around. People want something to just be at face value what it is. And. And some people are really lazy and don't have any interest in getting underneath something. And you can even go all the way back to the beginning days for color daddy. For me, like, the girl that only talks about sex, like, well, of course there's more to me. And I of course, saw, like, there was something in the market, that there was no one talking about it in the way that it would. Like, there's so much more. But I think when you. It's easier to kind of, like, pigeonhole a woman and kind of keep her in that lane, I also think it's very threatening, to be honest, to think of you as more than just like, a very gorgeous woman who is making these, like, concoctions that are so extravagant. You're also a businesswoman, and you're fully aware of what you're doing, and you're editing it. You're putting it together. Like, then you're the whole package. And we don't like that as a woman. No, because then you're a threat.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so that's so interesting that that woman was like, I don't want to hear it.

[B]

It was actually a guy. Well, but the women aren't different. Like, I've stumbled across a fair amount of women that, like, are exactly like that. So I think it's not very gender specific. I think there's just a bigger issue as a society that we have.

[A]

Can you talk to me about in a. In a cute way? Obviously, like, I referenced. There's a lot of videos that you were like, my husband is craving this. I'm gonna make it.

[B]

Y.

[A]

Do you think early days? Because I do think we've gotten to know you and Lucky a little bit more, and that just happens sometimes with time. And yes, unfortunately, you lightly having to share a little bit more. But, like, early days, what were some misconceptions you felt about you and your husband and those dynamics, and how did that impact you behind the camera with the two of you?

[B]

I. I don't really know exactly what those misconceptions are, because I kind of took a step back from the Internet. But I think one of them is obviously the trad wife narrative that there's, like, very specific gender roles. Like, do I like my husband filling up my gas tank? Absolutely. Do I like all these things that, like, I don't want to be doing? Yeah. I don't want to close my own suitcase. Do it for me. But I think that there was all this, like, misconception around, like, him being this very specific dominant male person, when behind the scenes, it's not like that. So we were always, like. We've always been very, like, like, equal and, like, understanding of each other. And, like, there was always a conversation that we had. So I never felt like whatever the public saw was what was going on.

[A]

Interesting. I. Okay. So something I took from your book that was interesting also. Congratulations.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

It's beautiful. Homemade. We're gonna talk more about it. Yeah, but something you said is a lot of what I do is tongue in cheek. I push buttons. I follow instincts. Can we talk about leaning in? Because I'm a. Like, I think there's a version of, like, you know, it's working.

[B]

Yeah. 100.

[A]

And even if it's pissing people off, like, you're still gonna put on the dress.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's gonna look.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's gonna look.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And how do you balance that? Because I think that there are some people that can say, okay, you clearly are aware that, like, like, people are assuming this looks a little trad wifey. Right. And so some people can say, well, she's leaning in and she's. It's brilliant. She's making money off of it. But she knows who she is, clearly. And then other people could say it is regressive. Like, how are you toeing that line?

[B]

I think I've also evolved in my personal style. Like, obviously during my pregnancy, it was very feminine and kind of leaning towards that aesthetic. But now, not being pregnant, I fit all my sample size clothes, so let me just go do that. And now it's, like, now I don't necessarily see where the. That trad wife angle is coming from, because I don't think a trad wife would be cooking in, like, Schiaparelli, you know, or a Moschino look straight off the Runway. Like, I don't think that's what a trad wife would do. So now I understand it even less. So that's, like, a little tricky. But I feel like, you know, let them think what they're going to think. Because also,

[A]

it is interesting. I feel like I've had a lot of fascinating conversations with women in this room where it's like, we are all aware of the society we are still living in and the double standards for women. And I. I think it really paints the picture of, like, hearing about that reporter, the Nara Smith, who came on the scene. And there were a lot of misconceptions there. You are never going to change specific people's opinions. They will always remember you as just that girl. I am still labeled sometimes, like, the girl that talks about blowjobs or what? And I'm like, oh, man, that was a decade ago. I. Wow. It's crazy. Like. And I've interviewed all these different people.

[B]

Detachment from what the per. The public perception is. So sometimes I don't even really recognize it. No.

[A]

But I think what's interesting is there's also the debate about being a woman and finding that perfect balance of, like, recognizing, well, why don't. Why don't I just lean in?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because if this is the society we live in and this is what's happening, but not losing yourself in it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, I. I think that's where there's a lot of nuance to it, I guess, is what I'm saying. And so the voice and the dresses, it's smart. You're monetizing off of this thing. And I get. People who don't understand the nuance can just be enraged in the capacity that is lightly pushing on the boundary of, like, it's a gray area. It looked like the gray area, Nara,

[B]

but I feel like I don't mind being in the gray area. Like, it's. I've kind of detached myself from what the public perception is because I know I'm not that. And I feel like. Here's the thing. I tried so hard to correct the narrative. Right. People didn't want to listen. I'm still kind of. I'm like, this is not what I am. So I want to make it very clear. And I. I think if people don't want to understand that, they don't want to understand that. And that's just all right to me. But I do. I do want to push people's mental boundaries to be like, oh, a women can exist in all these different spaces. And I feel like I'm trying to do that. And another reason why we're talking about this is because I think people should really try to listen because it's not just me. I think that women in general, in all different areas of their lives get put into these categories. And I want to have that bigger conversation of, let's not do that as a society. Let's let women exist in the spaces that they want to exist and not pigeonhole them into one specific thing. Because women are multifaceted. Like, we do it all in whatever capacity that is, whether that's in. In the working field or at home or wherever that may be. And I think let's have a bigger conversation and not zero in on what I do, because it's not accurate.

[A]

It's such a good point, and I appreciate you clarifying that, because I agree, like, it's not your job to clarify it, but it is frustrating when I think. Think you see a woman in media who is such a good example of the double standard of, like, why are we painting you in this one capacity?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're pretending like she's just slaving over her husband in the kitchen, and it's like, that's just not what it is.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you, but let's have a bigger conversation here and see what really is the issue, because I'm not the issue. Something that is happening for you is the issue. So let's chat about it.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you think would surprise people about how you and Lucky complement each other as parents?

[B]

Maybe how involved he is? I think there's this. I don't know what it is, but there's this, like, standard where people are like, he's holding the baby. He's watching the baby. What do you mean, he's watching his baby? He's a dad, of course. So I think there's this, like, weird societal thing that's happening where it's like, who. Who's watching the baby? What do you mean? He has two. Like, we're. He has a dad.

[A]

And I think what's hard is people, again, really struggle. Like, you post so much online. Yeah. And so if you're the primary one that's, like, posting, they somehow believe that he's not a part of certain things. And it's like, no, guys, there's like, a complete other life outside of social media that people choose to not.

[B]

I'm very selective with what I post and how I post, how much I share of my life. Because I used to be a lot more open. But then the more traction my social media got, the more people came to my page, the more people, like, kind of piece things together that were so inaccurate to what was going on to where I kind of felt like I had to take a step back and really evaluate what I show and how much I show.

[A]

Can you give an example that kind of forced you to be a little less open?

[B]

There was this incident of me posting my kids, and then there was this TikTok video where someone. I don't even know how they got it, but they got, like, a story that I posted on Instagram about my Daughter like a year and a half prior to me even having tick tock. So I'm like, where did this video come from? It was an Instagram story, not even an in feed post. And it had millions of views and it was just her sitting on the couch and she's so cute. But the comments, it had like 200, 000 likes. It had like 8, 000 comments. Or like so many. And so many of the comments were like, I can't wait for her to be older. Or her eyes are so pretty or look at those lips. And then I'd go on the profiles and it was like old men. To where I realized I'm actually doing my kids a disservice by exposing them and making them vulnerable on the Internet. To where I'm like, okay, kids are off limits. So when I do work shoots with the kids, like, there was this skims photo shoot that we did, a holiday shoot we did last year where I told the team, I'm like, I would love to do a family photo shoot, but these are my boundaries. And a lot of people I work with are very understanding. Skims was so understanding about it, so accommodating. But there's just, there's dangers on the Internet that I need to protect my kids from. So that was one of those experiences. Or just like little, like books they'd see in the back or like the whole religious thing. I'm like, no, but okay, I get why you're saying that. So let me take a step back because you're actually misunderstanding things I put out. So I kind of put myself in this little bubble to where I. I just want to keep things that are very, very personal to me. Personal to me.

[A]

Yeah. Like, I think there's been obviously such an uptick in the conversation around posting children online, and it's a really controversial one just because of the amount of evidence we're seeing of how destructive and exploitive it can be and seeing how many disgusting people are online.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And are consuming the content in a way that you wish. This is not the world that we lived in, but unfortunately, that is the reality. And so to some degree, it is the parents job to protect the children. How have you and Lucky, like, what is the boundary of, like, when to share, when to not share?

[B]

Yeah. I think we kind of take it situation by situation because if Vogue came knocking on my door and they were like, we want you and the kids on the COVID I'd be like, well, if my kid grows up and I say no to that, would they feel like they missed out on, like, I don't know. They're like, we definitely talk about it situation by situation. But when it comes to social media and social media content, no kids faces, I don't want them being recognized. I don't want anything. So I just. They're a part of my life, so obviously they can be a part of my content, but then it's just them running around or whatever to not see their face. So I feel like I'm still navigating kind of how to. To what to show and what not to show, because I. I care about my community, and I love that we're all in this together and that people, like, show up and support and, like, I've really build a close relationship with my community to where I feel like I really want you guys to see as much of my life as you can. But then also, I know that I have to set boundaries, because if I don't, then what are you gonna do? Yeah.

[A]

It's also so hard. It's so interesting you're saying this because I. I. You know, I was talking to someone recently about it and the conversation around sharing your children online. I'm like, it's so crazy to me, though, that the people who don't you see a lot of women get like, oh, she must be a bad mother. Like, we never see her with her kid. And I'm like, I'm already ready for that. For me, because I'm like, oh, my God. People are gonna be like, she's never with her kid. I'm like, no, no, I don't post my kid. Yeah, there's a very different. But again, if it's like, they. They don't see it, then they don't believe it.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's kind of been an ongoing thing. It's like, oh, where are your kids? What are you doing? Like, Lucky never. He's never with his kids. I'm like, if I were to turn this camera around, you would see four screaming kids and Lucky trying to wrangle them all. But I'm. I'm not sparing you. And all you see is me in my pretty dress making Skittles. Okay.

[A]

Because we're just keeping it for the brand. We're uploading the video that you want to see. Right. Enjoy.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Talking about motherhood and family. What is something from your own childhood that you are intentionally wanting to replicate?

[B]

I think the curiosity. I feel like growing up, I was always very encouraged to be curious and ask about things and understand how Things. Work and be knowledgeable about things. My dad was very German growing up. He would play, he would play this game with us where he'd get a glow globe. It would light up like a world globe. And he would spin the globe and then he'd like, stop it. And then he'd like point to this. He's like, what is this country? What's the capital? How many people live there? And we do. That was like our. Like, he would not chase us around the yard. He would do that with us. Or he would get me this like really thick. I remember it was a thick purple velvet just book about Greek mythology. And he would like quiz me on it or like a book about Marie Antoinette. And I was like, what, six or seven? So I think, think just that knowledge and that curiosity, it's made me very aware of things. And like, I've always had this like deep feeling of just. But why, why are we doing this? Why are you saying these things to me? Like, what's the bigger message? And I want our, my kids to like really have that understanding of the world and like really dig deep when it comes to things. I don't want them to be followers. I want them to be leaders. Strong leaders. Years.

[A]

Have you noticed at all? Because I know they're young, but like, have you noticed any of them having that same curiosity that you have?

[B]

Oh, Rumble, my five year old, she's exactly like me. I'm like, tone it down a little bit.

[A]

Wait, you're like, hold on.

[B]

Yeah, it's really funny seeing their personalities slowly emerge. Rumble is like me. Slim is like Lucky. Very quiet and reserved, but so smart and so brilliant. Whimsy. She's like our little fiery one. But I.

[A]

She's a third. Third.

[B]

She's the third.

[A]

I'm the third. Sounds like so.

[B]

So you get it.

[A]

You're just constantly pushing buttons.

[B]

Pushing buttons. But she also, like, no one's gonna tell her crap. And she's also very aware of situations to where like, if she doesn't like someone, there's a reason. So I'm never like, be nice.

[A]

No, you don't question her.

[B]

No, I don't question.

[A]

Oh, I know what you're.

[B]

No, because she's very observant. And then Fonny is just nine months. She's along for the ride.

[A]

We're gonna figure that out. Yeah, we're gonna figure out Fonny.

[B]

Figure that out.

[A]

I'll see you. I'll see you later. And you'll give me the update?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Is there anything that you're doing differently, that you're like, oh, I want to change that from my childhood.

[B]

Patience. I think my. My parents weren't very patient. So I think just being patient and trying to really get on their level,

[A]

which, from what I understand, is, like, a huge thing for parenthood, that you're like, I'm struggling. Patience.

[B]

Patience.

[A]

Right before you're like, don't freak out. Just give yourself some patience.

[B]

Take a deep breath.

[A]

That word. I need to paint that everywhere in my home.

[B]

No, truly, I think that's something that has been really hard for me because I'm very like, let's just do it. Let's just like, why aren't you putting on your shoes? Like, let's.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

And I just really had to, like, take a deep breath. And I'm like, they're. They're tiny humans. That's what I remind myself of. They're like tiny humans that haven't done a lot before. And you just need to realize that, like, putting yourself in the state of mind they're in, like, of course they're asking me why they have to go to bed because they don't know what time it is or what's going on. Sure.

[A]

Patience.

[B]

You know, Patience.

[A]

What did love look like in your house to you? Of, like, your parents? What does that face?

[B]

You know, My parents have a really complicated relationship. They've always been so loving, and they. They were the best. Well, they are.

[A]

Were.

[B]

They are the best parents ever. They've taught me so much and have really grown a lot also. And now as an adult, I see them totally different. I think being married now and having kids where I might have been hurt as a teenager being like, why are you guys fighting? Or, why are you doing this? Or now. I have a lot of compassion for each of them individually and together, to where I understand the choices that they've made, I understand why they did certain things. So I think my relationship with them has really changed and evolved over all these years. But, yeah, they didn't have the best marriage, and they didn't have the best dynamic at home. So a lot of. A lot of things that I'm unlearning now stemmed from that. But I love them so much, and I have a great relationship with both of them.

[A]

Did they stay together or did they.

[B]

They're still together, but it was very tumultuous. So, you know.

[A]

No, but I think that's interesting of, like, when. When a lot of people grew up in a tumultuous situation with watching their parents but then there was a divorce or a separation. That also can teach you to, like, really stick things through. But, like, at what point is. Should you not. Right. And so, like, I'm sure there's. Yeah, I'm sure there's things that you're trying to figure out of. Like, how do you handle conflict when you and Lucky are fighting? If you watch something very particular and specific repeated in your household, there's like, some unlearning that has to go on.

[B]

Yeah. And the older I get, the more I realize that my parents. Parents are great parents, but when it comes to their marriage, they were not the best example for marriage whatsoever. So I think then getting married. Married at a really young age. We got married when I was 18 and had our first baby when I was 19. So I never had a good example of how to navigate conflict, how to navigate a disagreement, how to navigate speaking my mind without feeling like I cannot. Like, all these things that were internal to me, not so much about my partner. Right. It was. Was never that much about my partner. It was more about me and the things that I've learned. And we. We've gone to couples therapy. I think that's a great tool. I think doing therapy yourself and, like, really just looking. I feel like being married is like a mirror. Like, you're all of a sudden in this space where you're confronted by all the things that you may or may not be doing wrong or things that you've learned that might not be. Be the best for you. And then all of a sudden, you have to work on that because elsewise your relationship will not be the way that you'd want it to be.

[A]

And, like, thinking about that. Nara. I completely agree. And then adding on the level of having children in the midst of also trying to be, you're young, you're taking care of yourself. You're, you know, fostering your relationship with your husband. And then I know you've got four kids in five years. Years.

[B]

Yeah. My oldest is five. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

In five years. Last year, you did post about struggling with postpartum anxiety.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And can you just describe what those first few weeks after having your daughter and giving birth like, what were those like?

[B]

Each pregnancy was so different. My first pregnancy and my first experience postpartum was like, what the heck is happening? Because I feel like we always talk about conceiving and then being pregnant and then birth, but what happens after? And I think being young and maybe me, I was very impulsive. I'm like, whatever, yeah, I'll have a Baby. So I never really sat. I never did a birthing class. I've never read, like, a. A book to the end. Sure. Did I start, you know, those, like, books that you always get the, like, baby, whatever.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I got a few pages in, and then I'm like, whatever. So I. I clearly didn't really know a lot. But then when I had my first baby, even giving birth, I'm like, oh, the baby's out. Great. And then they're like, okay, you need to keep pushing. Get the placenta. I'm like, what placenta? What are you talking about? I had no idea. And then postpartum, you all of a sudden. Well, I gave birth in, like, my midwife's office, which was. Had a bedroom, so it was like a birthing center, but not really. I don't know. It was a room with whatever. So I got sent home with this baby right after giving birth, and I'm like, I don't know what to do. I have no idea. But I'm just gonna follow my gut. I've always been the type of person to, like, I know in my gut what's right, and I know I'll know what to do. And then I had my mom in law there as well to help because it was during COVID so my parents couldn't come. But that first experience was really rough. But I think I also just, like, kept it pushing. But then my fourth experience, and then each experience was rough in whatever way. But my fourth experience was she was a surprise baby. So we were done after our third, and then I found out I was pregnant with her, and I was freaking out. I remember, like, everyone I called my agent. My par. Didn't tell my parents for the longest time. I didn't really want to tell my agent. But then I'm like, I don't fit anything. I need to tell her. I was at. Like, I was at the Schiaparelli show wearing this dress, and I just remember I flew into Paris that same morning, and I was just throwing up on the way there. I'm like, I actually need to tell people. So I was terrified because I just. I don't know what that feeling was, but I just knew I was at a point in my career and in my home life where I felt very settled, and I knew what the pregnancy would do to my body and my mental and, like, all these things and my stamina.

[A]

Taking it into existence would make it more overwhelming. Yes.

[B]

So I didn't want to tell anyone. Took the longest time to tell people. I truly, like, really just didn't think about it at all until it hit me right before she was born. I'm like, oh, I'm actually having a baby. And then, like, all the emotions kind of came in. And then I went into labor on my birthday, actually, right after midnight, she was born. It was a great labor, whatever. I gave birth. I was sitting there. Lucky, help. And we were sitting there, and then the next morning, I woke up, and that was one of this. It was one of the scariest experiences postpartum for me, because it genuinely felt like everything was a dream. I told my. I told Lucky. I was like, it feels like I'm gonna wake up tomorrow. And I would have never been pregnant. I don't have a baby. I don't. Like, this doesn't feel real. What is happening? I was terrified. I told him, like, I don't feel like I'm here. Am I here? Fear. Like, did I. Like, I looked at him one night, and I'm like, did I die? And he got so concerned. He called his sister and his mom, and he's like, is this normal? Like, what's going on? And then I didn't tell my midwife because there was, like, this whole. I just have. Sometimes I have a hard time conveying, like, hard emotions to people because I want to be seen as this very, like, collected, strong woman to where I don't want people to think I'm unwell, no pun intended. And it was really hard. And I. I had really bad postpartum anxiety for, like, two weeks. I remember I didn't tell anyone I gave birth online. It took me, like, a hot minute to, like, let people know because it felt like it didn't happen. Every morning I'd wake up looking at this baby being like, who are you? And I'd never had that experience before, and that was really, really hard. And then the postpartum anxiety kicked in to where I was like, like, well, I don't know what to do. Like, I don't know. And then through it all, I still had to work. Like, three weeks after she was born, I was shooting cookbook images in. Where was it? The Catskills or somewhere? Like, somewhere like, an hour and a half. I don't know where it was, but we were shooting at this house, and she was three weeks old, and I just had to keep it pushing. So it was almost this. Like, I was so disconnected from myself.

[A]

And your body and my body.

[B]

Reality, like, everything. It felt like I was living this, like, warped reality. And it took me a Hot minute to find myself back in my body.

[A]

And, like, understandably.

[B]

Yeah. And then the minute I did, I was like, oh, we've got a rhythm here, you know, like, everything's okay. We find out whimsy has cancer. It was just a mess. And then on top of all of that, I was still posting my videos. I was still posting stories and being like, today my kids were. While internally, I was, like, crumbling, truly crumbling. And I was, like, zipping up my dresses, being like, okay, let's just go do it. Let's just take the meeting. Oh, next flight out to here. Okay, I'm bringing the B. Oh, pumping. Okay, wait. Like, it felt like this.

[A]

Like, you're just going in autopilot to just get through, get through, get through, get through. And you're, like, not processing deadlines for the book.

[B]

Like, there was no messing around. There was no messing around.

[A]

I think that something that you're describing is. Is probably one of the more realistic experiences that women have after birth. And I think that even saying that out loud, there's a lot of women that are like, is that. Is that true? And it's like, yes, like, almost. I would say, let's say I have 10 of my girlfriends that have children. Seven of them have had extreme postpartum anxiety, really intrusive thoughts. Like, I remember when I got pregnant and my friend came to me and basically was like, I just want to say something not to freak you out, but I want to say it before you give birth because I need you to remember this moment. She said she basically was like, there is a chance, and I hope it doesn't happen to you, but there is a chance. You are going to have some really crazy, dark thoughts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, crazier than you could probably ever imagine. Really intrusive thoughts. And it's okay. And it's actually way more normal, but no one talks about it because as a woman, like, you just said you didn't tell your midwife because you want to present as strong. And then there's the added level of, like, you just gave birth. You should be so happy. You should present as this okay figure. Because also, like, the mother not being okay. Like, oh, my God, what's wrong with you? Because now we don't have as much empathy anymore because you don't have the baby in the belly. Like, you got to get your together. And so there's all these pressures to, like, bounce back and get back, and it's like. Like, I can't imagine the internal struggle emotionally that you were going through. And that you had to fight that battle somewhat on your own. Of course you can share it with your husband. Like it's on you in, in a capacity, of course you should share it. But like, it's overwhelming.

[B]

It's so overwhelming. And I think it doesn't get talked about enough. And there's not a safe enough space for women to really voice how they're feeling. And I think it is really important though, postpartum to be open. I think that's what I learned through my elastic experience. I'm like, I really wish I would have told my mid wife or gotten a therapist or someone to just help navigate because on a physical level, like your hormones plummet. That's just what it is. Like you go through like the largest plummet in your hormones that you can

[A]

ever can possibly have in your life.

[B]

Right? So I think as women, I, I really encourage everyone that's, that's having a hard postpartum experience to really see, seek help. Because I promise you're not going to get seen as weak or not capable or whatever. More so, it will give you the tools to really have that community. And even with intrusive thoughts, like, no one talks about it because it's, it's scary because you don't want anyone to think that you would ever do anything to your baby or that you would harm yourself or that whatever it is, and no one really creates that safe space of it being okay, but it is okay. And you can also have people in your space that will understand and help you navigate it.

[A]

So many women who've gone through it, be like, I'm just telling you, they're like, yes, yes. But to a normal person maybe who

[B]

they're like, what's wrong with you? You need help. But not in a way that's bad. More so in a way of like, let's support and give you a good foundation to feel your best. Not because you're bad, but because you need a stable foundation.

[A]

And I also think like, when you, there is something in life where it's like, if this is happening so regularly, that is then the norm. Like that is normal to, it's not normal to live like that forever. But there is clearly scientifically proven that women, after all of these hormones drop, like, you're going to go through this potentially.

[B]

It needs to be talked about.

[A]

It needs to be talked about. I hope this makes women feel less alone. And also we're hopefully just through this conversation, chipping away a little bit at the stigma of postpartum, the anxiety, the intrusive thought thoughts like, you are not alone. You are not crazy. And that is where I think women coming together and talking about it makes other women finally feel like, oh, my God, there's like a woman that's gonna watch this right now and be like, girls. I never needed that more than to hear that I'm not insane for having these thoughts.

[B]

No, you've just gone through the most life altering experience ever that you ever go through. Give yourself grace and also recognize that you literally, literally, you've grown a human being. Every single bit of this human being. You've grown from nails to hair follicles to organs to brain to skull, everything. And then you've given birth to this human being, and then what, you're just supposed to resume business as usual? No, that's, like, physically not how it works and mentally not how it works. And I think we talk about the physical maybe even more than the mental. Like, I feel like postpartum in general is not talked about enough. Like, but if we do talk about it, it's like, oh, you're going to have this, or you're going to not be able to do this, or like, let's figure out the nursing or whatever it may be. But no one necessarily talks about all the things that could happen mentally after.

[A]

It's so true. I was thinking about that because it is such an adjustment from your. Your mind and your body, and they're both going through such different things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A large conversation around postpartum bodies, I mean, that's a constant conversation, but I feel like you kind of got put into the mix after you gave birth to Pawnee. Some people online really celebrated how quickly you appeared to recover. And they were talking about, you know, I think it was like a mirror selfie or whatever it was, or a picture of you. And then while others talked about, you know, the pressure that this puts on women to bounce back after having a baby. How did you feel about being a part of that conversation? And how have you navigated that?

[B]

I think that's postpartum looks so different for everybody. Bodies are different for everybody. Some. Some people bounce back really quick. Some people don't. Some people get stretch marks, some people don't. I think that we as women should uplift every single woman. Woman, postpartum. And I think, yes. Did I post a picture that maybe evoked emotion in other women or other people in general? Yes. But what people don't realize is that to me, that picture wasn't me at my best. And my normal. I was crying that Same morning, I was wearing a diaper in that picture. I was wearing linen pants because I didn't fit a single one of my denim pants that I had. I was way above my usual weight. Like, I did. I didn't feel like myself. And I posted that picture being like, I don't feel like myself, but my body is magical because look what it just did. And I'm really proud of that. And that was my postpartum experience. But I think in general, we should celebrate everyone for where they're at postpartum.

[A]

I completely agree. I think that there's such a pressure when it comes to the even just the concept of bounce back culture. Culture, again, focusing more on, like, how we do it mentally. Girlies, like, the body is the most incredible thing that like women. And the fact that we are able to do what we're able to do in these moments is insane. And so just to be alive after that experience is like, yes, I'm happy. And so I think, understandably, people are going to have insecurities that come with, again, extreme changes. But to put another woman down for having something she can't control. And also, you shouldn't feel like you have to hide.

[B]

Also, my experience wasn't. I think it's one thing what the public sees, but then it's also so different to how I feel. I think that being a mother looks so different for every single person. And I think we should really celebrate everyone for where they're at and the safety that it takes to share whatever they want to share. Like, I think that we should really just make it a safe space for women in general, regardless of what your postpartum looks like, whether you bounce back or you don't. Because to me, someone bouncing back might look a certain way, right? I'm like, oh, that per. Because I compare myself too sometimes. I'm like, ugh, that mom really just did it. She's thriving. She just did this. But being a mom myself and having gone through birth, I'm like, what she shows me is probably her best. Or she wants to show parts of herself that she feels really good about or that she wants to share for whatever purpose that may be. I'm not going to compare myself to anyone.

[A]

I was gonna say, I think that actually leads us perfectly into this next conversation because it really is such an indicator of like, guys, we also just. Anything you see on social media, you don't have the full story even freaking close. Like, at this point, I am convinced we are maximum in moments getting 10 of a lot of People's lives. And that is some. For some people, generous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like you said, as you are navigating postpartum, you find out that your daughter, Whimsy has cancer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can you explain just, like, how you decided for you and your family that it was the right time to even share this news publicly?

[B]

It took a lot. I told myself, I'm not going to get emotional. Sorry,

[A]

Sorry. I got tissues. You're good.

[B]

I think. I mean, it all boiled down to when we found out about everything and then all the behind the scenes and everything that was going on. Lucky and I did have those conversations. And my fear, I always had this, like, lingering fear, well, what if someone takes a video of us in the hospital and they put it out or. Because when we were in the hospital, people would come up to us and say, hey, can I get a picture with you? Can, like, can you say hi to my friend? And they probably didn't know that we were going through the hardest time of our lives. So obviously I smiled and said, of course you can, and took the picture. But I was always nervous that people would kind of piece it together or someone would talk or someone would whatever. And to me, her safety and privacy was the most important thing. So I would always go back and forth with Lucky and saying, should we just share it? Should we just talk about it? What if someone else does? And he's like, but that doesn't matter. Like, what do you feel like in your heart? And I always came back to the fact, like, I don't want to share it. I don't want to, like, talk about it. I don't want her out there. I don't want any of that. So then as time went on and as we went through all the treatments and had really hard days and slightly easier days, I found a lot of community in the hospital. Talking to parents or the nurses or. Or going on Reddit and, like, reading people's stories, like, all of that. And the more I kind of went through that, I realized that I find a lot of comfort in knowing that I'm not alone. So then when she. Right after her birthday, she was in remission, we finished her last treatment, we rang the bell. It was very emotional. And I just realized, well, maybe if I. I use my platform to make even just one person feel less alone, I can do that. And that's kind of why we shared it.

[A]

I can't even imagine, Nara, you being in that hospital and the anxiety of trying to protect your baby. Yeah. And also being this public person. And I'm sure there was just like so many emotions around, like, oh my God, I want to like turn this part of my life off right now because like, this is all that matters. And I can, I can't imagine the anxiety on top of already. Like the trauma that you and your family are having to endure. It was really hard when you found out this diagnosis. Like, what do you remember about that day?

[B]

I just remember we were actually coming back from a big family photo shoot, the holiday one, and my mother in law saw, she talked to Lucky and she was like, I. I saw this thing. Don't be alarmed, but like, maybe you should look at it and talk to Nara about it. So then Lucky came into the room. I was nursing Fonny and he said, don't freak out, honey. Not that I usually freak out, but like he was like, just, just look at it and see how you feel. Should I take her to the doctor? I was like, like, what happened? Did she get hurt? Or like, what's going on? And then he was like, no, I don't think so. My mom just saw. Saw this. So then he was like, I was just like, let's just be safe and take her to the er. Then we took her to the er. The ER was like, we don't really know what to make of this. Just tell us if it gets worse. And I was like, okay, well maybe it's just like a kid thing. I don't know. So then later that week, I took Fonny to the pediatrician for the first time. So I rang him and I was like, this is what's going on with Whimsy. Do you think I can bring her to just have a look? So we walk in there and he, he does her first. So he looks at her and then I just remember him going quiet. He went quiet and like very calm and collected. And in that moment, like my heart just dropped. And there was this like weird gut feeling of being like, oh, she has cancer. I know she has. Cuz my mom, before that she'd gone through a year of chemo treatments for breast cancer. And it was gruesome and it was so hard to watch her go through that. And there was always this lingering fear of the, this like sickness that would come. So then I was like, oh, she has cancer. But I didn't want to say it to Lucky. Like I, I did hint at it. And he was like, no, honey, you can't, like, you can't think like that. So then he didn't even, I don't even think he looked At Fonny, really? He was like, you guys need to take her to like the closest hospital. So the closest hospital was the Yale New Haven Children's Hospital. So I drove back home with Fonny because. Because our other kids were at home and he took whimsy. And long story short, there were a bunch of like biopsies, ultrasounds, scans, whatever. And then a week after that initial visit, we got a phone call. And I just remember standing in the living room and the phone rang and it was this like weird gut feeling. I'm like, oh, it's the hospital. They're going to tell us she has cancer. I looked at Lucky and I'm like, this is it. Let's just brace ourselves. And like, it's cancer, cancer. And then you could just tell by the voice. And they were like, we're so sorry she has cancer. You guys need to start like treatment immediately. And then they took her in, then she started treatment, they tested her further, did a few more scans and they were like, it's really, it's spread in her body. So like, you guys need to. This is the treatment plan. This is what she has to do. And it was really hard. So we, Lucky kind of did the majority of the. The cuz you would go home and then she would go to the hospital for five days and stay there from Monday to Friday every like 16ish days, depending on what her blood count was. And Lucky did those overnight stays because I had Fonny at home that I was nursing and I couldn't be away from her. So I would go during the day and then obviously try to also work and like do that. So it was like playing Tetris almost. And then we had our other kids. So it was really, really hard and it was. Was a really tough experience. And every day you would wake up and not quite know what's going to. What the day is going to bring, what the doctors are going to say. What like, is the treatment working? Is it not like all these different things to where it. It was really hard. Yeah.

[A]

Nara, I like, I am so sorry. Even just hearing you like, no parent should ever have to experience this. No child should ever have to experience this. I can't imagine the emotional toll also of, of trying to be present for multiple children while also wanting to be present for the one child that is sick and going through. Also sounds like so such a blessing to have such an incredible partner who was able to take this on while you were taking this on over here. I. I'm curious like in that Darkest moment where you. So you get that phone call as a couple, like, what? How did you.

[B]

I think it was a lot of being on autopilot, because I think when I'm faced with a crisis, whatever that crisis may be, I'm like, okay, there's no time for emotions. There's no time for anything. It's like zoning in and doing it. So I think at first, like, we didn't process it, but I think it was. We were both on autopilot, making sure that she was all right, making sure our other kids were all right. And it didn't really hit us yet, right? So we were like, okay, okay, let's. Let's do it. It's, like, fine, I guess. And we were very communic. Like, we communicated a lot. I was checking in with him, like, how are you doing? What are we doing? Like, he was checking in with me. Because you always hear when couples go through a really hard time, it either makes or breaks you. And a lot of the times I feel like I've heard about couples kind of drifting away, but I feel like it's even. It's brought Lucky and me even closer together because we were. We really had to rally for whimsy. So, yeah, that was. That was just an insane experience. And then the more time went on, her hair started falling out, and you, like, could physically see it. Like, she would get really nauseous and, like, all the things that come with someone going through chemo treatment. And I think that's when it kind of hit both of us. And then we started, like, crumbling a little bit to where. When I had a hard day with it, he picked me up. When he had a hard day, I picked him up. And we were like, let's just keep going. It felt like we were, you know that game where you're, like, tied to someone else and you have to make it to the finish line together. That's what it felt like. And every time I was like, I don't think I can go any further. He was like, yes, you can. Like, you can. And then vice versa. So I think it really. It required a lot. A lot out of both of us, but we made it.

[A]

How did you explain just, like, the changes that were happening to your other children?

[B]

I think they were at an age where they could kind of get it, but kind of not. But there was this book. Book. I don't remember the name of the book, but it was this book about cancer that a mom wrote after her kid went through. I think it was brain cancer to like make sense of this situation. So we read this book, I think it was something. And the hair fairy or something to where it talked about like this, this cancer. It was like described as like a gummy ball in your body or something like that, and that you would lose your hair and then the hair fairy would come and like, like you should just put your hair somewhere and it's gonna take the hair. And like it was a very beautiful kid story. And all my 5 year old took away from that was like, I want the hair fairy to come.

[A]

So I was like, I don't think

[B]

it works like that. But like, sure. And then as time went on, like they would have these random questions to where I also realized, like, maybe it is like on their minds to where I would, like Slim would ask me, is it like, can I get cancer? I'm like, no, it's not contagious. It's like trying to explain it. But they would ask these questions in the most random situations to where I knew that I just had to be like extra present with them and extra loving and kind of just explain things a little bit better for them.

[A]

But yeah, what, what kept you hopeful in some of your darkest moments?

[B]

Knowing that I wasn't alone, like the community and knowing that there's parents out there that are and have gone through similar experiences that have made it out the other end and were fine, I guess in whatever way you want to interpret that. But also just the fact that I can't give up hope. If I give up hope, Whimsy will and I need to show up for my daughter and I need to make sure she's all right. And she like, she will be all right. I'm gonna make sure of that. And if it's not this treatment, it will be next treatment. Like there was, there's never. There was never the thought of like giving up emotionally or physically to me.

[A]

Do you have any. If someone, a parent is listening right now who happens to be going through something similar, like do you have any advice that you would want to share?

[B]

I just want people to talk about their emotions with anyone that they feel comfortable with. I think, think it can feel like a very, very isolating experience that you don't really think anyone else would understand or go through or whatever. But the more community you seek, the more you'll find people showing up for you in ways that you never thought they will. Like even by sharing that. I've had so many people reach out and offer support even though now we're in remission. So it I, I waited until we were. Because I never like, I couldn't stomach going through everything at the same time. But having people reach out or sharing their own stories or even sharing how other people showed up for them. I think community is so important and I want you to go seek that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because there's a huge community out there. That's so beautiful.

[A]

How do you think this experience has changed your family's just like day to day life now?

[B]

I think it's made me at least really be present and grateful for every moment that we have. It's made me really just see even the small, mundane things as something that I enjoy doing and I want to find the beauty in and make extra special. Like even if it's setting a table a little bit more elaborate than I wanted to or making them their favorite meal. Cuz like, why can't we have Mac and cheese tonight? I, I, I'll make Mac and cheese, you know. So I think it really made me cherish those small moments that before I was very nonchalant about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, in what ways do you

[A]

think this experience allowed you to see Lucky in a different light?

[B]

I've never thought about that question in that way. But I think seeing how tender he is and so loving and supportive and like there was no. And optimistic. Like there was not a single moment where he didn't show up for whimsy, for me, for the kids, for everybody, as like a strong partner and father and. Sure did. Did he have really hard moments that we worked through together? Absolutely. But it just showed me just how beautiful this family is that we've built together and how each and every person has a part that's so integral for all of it to work properly.

[A]

Yeah, I, I remember you had said that you guys had gone to couples therapy before. Like, how did the foundation that you guys have built really prove to be a solid foundation during this time?

[B]

It I, like, this is something that no one thinks is gonna happen. Right. So when we went to couples therapy, I was like, let's just do it to really build a strong foundation. I wanted to make sure that we have the tools because he grew up in a different way than I did. And we both bring baggage that maybe we're aware of or maybe we're unaware of. And therapy gets a bad rep. Couples therapy gets a really bad rep. It's like, oh, you're gonna get divorced. That's why you're going. Right.

[A]

Like, what's wrong with you guys?

[B]

What's wrong sometimes? Like, nothing's wrong. And you just want to have the tools to have the best life. Like, I want to have the best life in every aspect of my life. And that, to me, comes with work. Sometimes harder, sometimes easier, but it's work nevertheless. So we kind of learned the tools of. I think one thing that was really big for us is communication. We kind of talked at each other a lot, but never with each other. So I think that came real in, really handy with this experience to where even though I might have felt whatever I felt, I created the space for him to feel the way he felt and for him to communicate that with me and for us to work through that together and really be heard by each other.

[A]

Oh, my God. I can't even imagine how integral that was to you, the success, essentially, of you being able to just, like, every day get through this. Because, like you said, I. I agree. I think you hear so many stories, understandably, of people losing their way with their partner because grief and trauma, like, you're. You're trying to regulate and you're trying to be there for your child who you're putting first. And so, like, it kind of becomes an afterthought sometimes about your partner. It kind of has to be up. Yeah. And so I think to know that you guys were able to really try to tap into that is so beautiful. And I'm just also probably so beautiful for your other children to try to.

[B]

He's my best friend, and I think that's also what really helped. Like, he's not just my romantic partner. Like, he truly is my best friend, and I don't know what I would do without him. So it almost like our friendship and our understanding of each other really, really helped in every aspect. And our kids, too. Like, they. I think having that relationship to. Sure. Do we fight sometimes or bicker or argue? Absolutely. Our relationship is not perfect. Like, I don't think anyone's relationship with anyone is perfect, But I think our kids have seen us, like, really rally, and they've seen us maybe have an argument. I think it's healthy sometimes for them to see that, but then also see the resolution of it and how we. We find our way back to common ground. Like, I think all of that was really important for them to see, and I think it's just been a really humbling experience and hard.

[A]

You have been through. How old are you?

[B]

24.

[A]

Yeah. You have been through so much life. I have. And you. You are so impressive. Like, obviously, you're now coming out with this cookbook.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Homemade. It comes out October 13th yep. And it's so interesting because we've watched you on TikTok, we've watched you making these concoctions, but to now put it into a book. And I love it because it's not just recipes. You're actually kind of telling the story of like how you got to where you are today. Why did you feel like now was the right moment to do something like. Like this?

[B]

When I started with the whole TikTok thing and my recipes and videos gained traction, a lot of the comments were, we need a recipe book. Where are the recipes? So I started with my substack and then just realized that I, I love a good book. I really do. So I. I'd also never owned a cookbook, which is weird. I'd never owned a cookbook. And then writing this, my publisher was like, so have you ever read a cookbook?

[A]

I'm like, no.

[B]

She's like, you need to go, go get some. But through this whole process, I just realized I want all of my recipes in a book that can live on someone's counter and be kind of timeless. I want it to be on your counter for a very long time.

[A]

Hold up the book. I want to see it. Give a whole thing. Promo that thing, girl.

[B]

No. It's so cute. Even the back, like it took. It's. It's a labor of love.

[A]

Something I also need you to talk about is there is someone that is very reoccurring in this book that you often bring up and your grandmother.

[B]

Oh, I'm like, who? Who are we talking about?

[A]

Your grandmother. Yes. What is one of your earliest memories with her in the kitchen? Cuz I know that she inspired a lot of your love for cooking.

[B]

Her and I were really, really close. She was the one that taught me how to play the piano, how to read. Like she was very much involved. And I just remember there were a few things that she would make a lot. One of them was oatmeal. Like this cinnamon rich oatmeal. I've never been able to recreate it, but it was phenomenal. And that was one of my first memories with her in the kitchen to where she would like wrap my hands around the spoon, tell me how to stir it, plate it up, sprinkle it with more cinnamon. And she was just this warm very. And then we'd sit on this like banquette in her kitchen and behind us it was just, just like a wall of black and white cat pictures. Wall full of cat pictures. I'm like, this is crazy. But yeah, that was one of My first memories. And she's always been like, an inspiration. Even, like, I got psychic readings once by, like, this religious medium. It was my grandma that would pop up in all these things. And she was like, your grandma's wanting you. You to know this. Your grandma's really proud. Your grand grandma's, like, looking over you and I see her standing at the piano. What does this mean? And I'm like, crazy. So you did see her.

[A]

So you did see her. Yeah, that's. I was thinking about it too, because even you saying, like, oh, my God, I don't. I still haven't been able to recreate her oatmeal, like, by you putting finally your recipes in writing. I feel like you're right. So many people for so long have been like, nara, where's the recipe?

[B]

And I'm like, I've been. I can't tell you. But like, I'm working on it, I promise. But I couldn't tell anyone for. For two years.

[A]

Okay, what is the first recipe you knew had to be in the book?

[B]

Oh, that's really hard because we were going through lists of recipes for so long. But I knew that, like, my kookier recipes had to be in it. Like, I know you want to know how to make an Oreo. Let me give it to you. Right. Cheez. Its. You don't have to buy that anymore. Let's just make it so those recipes are in there. But then I also cook a lot of normal meals. Like, I need to feed my family, I need to feed myself. So here are some recipes that I actually like, genuinely cook on and offline for.

[A]

They're a little less.

[B]

They're like cheese it. I know. Sometimes you just have like an hour to get dinner on the table. Let me tell you how to do that.

[A]

Okay. Okay. So you were giving us range.

[B]

Range.

[A]

I appreciate that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What is one recipe that took the longest to get right?

[B]

There's this one recipe in there that's like a sour dough bread, but not with a starter.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

To where it was like, I'm not gonna make you feed your starter for like. Cause, okay. The recipe started off is like, I'm going to show you how to make your starter. Feed it every day.

[A]

Yeah. Like, what do I do? Like, Nora, I don't know what to do with the starter. Yeah.

[B]

So I'm like, that's like two weeks of work for a loaf of bread. I'm so sorry.

[A]

Okay, so this is going to help me have no starter.

[B]

No starter. You still kind of get that same Thing, it will only take you like five to six hours. Okay, that sounds crazy still. But like for bread, that's not that long cuz it's also hands off work.

[A]

I've heard literally people in LA like, I have got a hookup for someone who has starter and no, I literally.

[B]

No, Alex, you don't understand. My friend, she lives in Utah and she had a starter and I was at her house with my kids and I was like moaning to her. I'm like, I don't my. I had to throw my starter away. And she was like, you can have some of mine. Like, Willa is really doing it. And I'm like, great. So she sent me home with a starter. I flew around airport, like through security. I could take it. Which I don't know whether I could actually or whether the guy just knew me.

[A]

And he was like, like, he's like, I see that starter, I see that starter.

[B]

Just go, just go, just go. I don't know. I would travel with it and feed it like every Airbnb I was in. I need a starter, water and flour.

[A]

I'm so stressed. Nara.

[B]

No, I need to show you. It's really easy.

[A]

I wanted to have fresh bread in my house.

[B]

No, I love fresh bread. But I'm like, I need to send you the bread recipe in there. I also have a sandwich bread recipe. Like, I think the baking ones took longer. Longer actually. Cinnamon Toast Crunch cereal took so long.

[A]

Okay, so how like idiot proof is this? Very. Because I'm the idiot.

[B]

But here's the thing. I think a lot of people have this misconception that I'm this like, professional. I'm a home cook, honey. I started cooking at the same time as you saw me starting to cook. Like when I posted on Tick Tock. That's when I started.

[A]

Okay. That makes me feel good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So like, so I could maybe figure something out.

[B]

Some of these might be a little bit technical, but with the steps you can figure it out. And then some of them are so easy to where you just throw some lentils and sweet potato in a pot and you'll be fine. So I think it makes anything. Yeah. I wanted it to feel accessible to people. I didn't want it to feel like, oh, all you're getting is from scratch recipes. No, I wanted it to feel like an essential book that you can get started with and feel comfortable with. And like, like my cooking takes trial and error. Do you know how many times I've made things? Like, I tried making Twizzler lures. The Other day, Horrible. Didn't work out. Toss that. So it really is trial and error.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah, what is it?

[A]

I'm going to throw you a scenario and you're going to tell me me what I should make from scratch. You ready?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Tell me that you want to impress at a dinner party. What are you bringing?

[B]

I'm hosting, so I'm not. Sorry, not bring.

[A]

Okay, okay. Me being like, I will never host a dinner party. I'm the girl that orders the takeout and puts it on the plate and pretends I made it.

[B]

I've never done that, but that sounds fun.

[A]

Genius. Okay, what are you making for your dinner party?

[B]

So here's the thing. I love a good menu and I love a theme. We have to have a theme. We have to have a menu. So let's figure out the theme and then figure out the menu after. But what I do love, I'm a little biased. Like a roast chicken. Here's the thing. A roast chicken feels impressive if you do it right, but it's very hands off. It's like one of the easiest. Like that's the dinner I make when I'm like, I have no idea what to make. It's a roast chicken because you like do it, pop it in the oven and then you do a bunch of sides. I like things that you could prep the night before and then just plate the next day.

[A]

Done. Okay. Your kids come home from school absolutely starving. What are we making?

[B]

Bread and jam.

[A]

Bread and jam. That's a good answer. You're trying to seduce your future husband.

[B]

Yeah. Steak and fries with like a sexy like peppercorn sauce.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Okay, you need to pick me up comfort meal after a really tough day.

[B]

Day Beef pie.

[A]

Okay. Your in laws are unexpectedly coming over in 30 minutes. What are you making?

[B]

Something American. Let me tell you that. Maybe a. No. Tacos. Tacos. My dad in law loves his little tacos.

[A]

Okay, so I make some tacos. But so different from how you like. Are you making your own taco seasoning?

[B]

Well, what do you mean? Like mixing spices together.

[A]

Oh, is that one? It is.

[B]

You just take like cumin and whatever and like put it all together. What do you, what do you do?

[A]

Oh, I get like the, you know, the taco packs from the grocery store.

[B]

Oh, that's an option. Yeah. But I mean taco seasoning is chill. You just have to have you have your spices and you throw it together.

[A]

I never thought about it like that. Yeah, When I said Idiot in the kitchen. Oh.

[B]

So that's fine.

[A]

I could just kind of. You can just make it yourself. Well, of course.

[B]

Like, make your seasoning, like, dry the bell pepper and, like, grind it and make it.

[A]

Putting on the beef to make it have that little, like, zest.

[B]

Oh, you just, like. Okay. You probably have a rack of spices in your kitchen.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you just throw them together. Whatever makes sense for, like, the cuisine you're going for. And then I do love a good, Like, I like a good sweet and hot thing. So I make my own salsas. I also have this really good recipe in my book, actually, I'm not trying to plug, but it's like a roasted pork situation. Pork tacos with, like, two different salsas. And you can put the pork on in the morning and put it in your slow cooker and then not think about it until dinner.

[A]

That's what I'm going to try to do.

[B]

And then you could either make your own tortillas if you want to, or you can just store. Store bought. Store bought.

[A]

I'm like, hey, don't. We're not getting crazy, girl. Not too far. If I'm making my own salsa, then I'm probably hitting up the tortillas at the grocery store.

[B]

You know what? Or you do the tortillas and buy the salsa.

[A]

Which one do you think? Which one's more impressive for me? How are you making your own? We have. So I have so many questions.

[B]

Corn flourish. Is it corn flour? Masa, harina? Yeah, a little bit of water.

[A]

Wait, what do you order for takeout? Oh, is this controversial?

[B]

No, I. I love a good takeout. I really do. I think sometimes there's something so beautiful about someone else cooking for me.

[A]

How many nights a week are you, like, cooking in your household?

[B]

I try to cook every night. Sometimes, like, the other day, my chickens got eaten by a fox, and I was making chicken, and I was like, there's no way. So I got the takeout.

[A]

Oh, yeah. That feels a little.

[B]

It felt a little barbaric. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Morbid. Oh, wow. So you're like, we're good.

[B]

It depends. But I usually order takeout that I don't really want to make myself. So it's Indian food, Thai food, Vietnamese food. I would never order something I could make. Like, bur ordering a burger for takeout on Postmates. Criminal activity, in my opinion.

[A]

So crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That. Who would ever do that?

[B]

Sometimes it's a necessity. Right. But for me, personally, I. I would

[A]

hate to see me come in if I pulled up my Post mids order. You're gonna be like Alex.

[B]

Yeah, I would actually be like let's just tweak this. How about we do Indian instead? So that, that, that I would much rather order.

[A]

Okay, last one. You're over halfway through your pregnancy, it's 10pm asking for a friend. Suddenly you need something. You want to make something Yum me. What are we making?

[B]

Like how much time you got?

[A]

An hour.

[B]

Oh, that changes the game there.

[A]

Oh, 30 minutes.

[B]

I would make. Okay, I don't like this but I know Americans love their chocolate chip cookies. I would make chocolate chip cookies and then I would make. Well I would probably have ice cream that I made in the freezer. But you, you post made some vanilla ice cream and then you put your ice cream sandwich together. Hot chocolate chip cookie. But like not hot because then it will crumble but like warm vanilla ice cream in the middle. Another chocolate chip cookie and you press it together, get yourself an ice cream sandwich and if you're feeling fancy, you melt some chocolate and like dip it and let it harden. You do that.

[A]

I love you. I am so going to do that. Oh, that's a good one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, I'm craving that right now.

[B]

Oh, it's good stuff. And like you don't have to like spoon it or do the whole thing. It's like an ice cream sandwich. And you can also prep those in advance and put them in your freezer. Freezer. So you can just pull them out and you get like the perfect vanilla ice. Because sometimes when you buy the pre made stuff you're like the vanilla ice cream sucks or the cookie sucks. But you can get it the way you want to get it.

[A]

You are blowing my mind right now. Yeah, it's. It's like talking to an expert and I'm like this child that's like I'm trying to absorb some stuff is going

[B]

over your pregnancy craving. Because that's what I want to know.

[A]

Okay, so in the beginning obviously I was like nauseous. I wasn't craving anything.

[B]

Right, right, right. That.

[A]

Then I started craving In n out.

[B]

A classic.

[A]

A classic. And so when you're like oh, ordering burgers. I'm like no, no, no, I'm going to in n out. Well cuz that's okay. Fair. That's fair.

[B]

We'll take that off the list. Cuz that was my craving too.

[A]

Okay, fair. But I would want it weirdly in a lettuce wrap.

[B]

Yeah, same.

[A]

And then I also wanted to get a Flying Dutchman.

[B]

You're me.

[A]

There's we're one nara.

[B]

That was me.

[A]

So good. And chilies or no? Yes. Oh, my God.

[B]

Of course we have the same order then. So that was me.

[A]

And then I started craving donuts.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Which was taking me down, like, a weird path. And I was like, every morning my husband would come to my bedside and I would say, like, bring me a donut and a little coffee. And I was, like, so happy. So that was good.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

So I've gone through, like, some weird phases. Like, it's. It's kind of hit or miss sometimes, but for right now, I'm like, I'm really, really liking my ice cream right now. So this is why it's really hitting. Kidding. No, no, I'm not making it.

[B]

Look at you.

[A]

Perfect. You're gonna make homemade ice cream. I'm like, nara.

[B]

Do you know what's really good, though, if you love an ice cream, is the Jenny's birthday cake ice cream.

[A]

Jenny's.

[B]

I will buy that.

[A]

Oh, okay. So that's what I'm on. And. But right now, I don't know if you did this when you were pregnant, but, like, I need a lot of different tastes kind of happening at once. So my bowl, nara, is like mint chip, then vanilla, then chocolate, then strawberry, Then I have some cookies and cream, Then I have some salted caramel. Karma.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And I need all the tastes.

[B]

Yep, yep, yep.

[A]

And then I just lay there and I'm like.

[B]

And you're like, okay. But I could only eat, like, three bites because I'd feel so full so quick immediately.

[A]

I have so many questions after this. Yes. Because I'm having issues with pregnancy pillows. And, like, I'm trying to figure it out.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

We'll talk offline. But you. I wrote something down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're rounding out our conversation now. I feel like we're having girl talk. We're in front of cameras. Okay. You talked a lot about wanting to build something that lasts. Lasts.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What does that mean to you?

[B]

One thing that I've always strived for is longevity. I want the business and whatever I'm creating to grow alongside me, because it's unrealistic for me to think that I'm just going to be doing this for the rest of my life. Like, I'm going to grow and evolve. I'm only 24. I don't know what the next 10 years have in store for me, but all I know is I want to be working and building my business and growing to where I. I enjoy so many different things. Like, obviously, I love my social presence. I love cooking. So writing the cookbook felt natur. I ended up being in a movie where I had that whole experience to where now I want to do acting. So I'm taking acting classes. I also want to build my own brand, you know? Well, we'll get into that when the time comes, but I think people are really gonna love it. It's gonna be really fun. So we're working on that and then just kind of figuring out tv, that space just. I feel like the world is my oyster in like, the most grateful and humble way I could possibly say that. Because I'm so grateful to have the community that has put me in this spot to be able to really execute my vision. And I'm so grateful for it and really excited for the future.

[A]

I mean, I'm so happy that I got to talk to you because all the way back to the beginning of our conversation, just talking about the misconceptions and the labels and I think it's just like another testament to what you said earlier of just like, why can't we all get more comfortable with celebrating women who are multifaceted and have drive in multiple different areas? And how about this? Are thriving in multiple different areas of their life. And instead of that being a threat and something that we want to ignore or downplay, let's look, celebrate it. Celebrate it.

[B]

We should all just help each other and like, really just uplift each other. That's all I want to do.

[A]

No, I'm so happy I got to meet you. I really appreciate you also. I know we went through so many different topics and I know that so many of them were extremely personal.

[B]

Well, thanks for making it a safe space.

[A]

Of course. No, thank you for coming on caller.

[B]

Daddy.

[A]

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