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Olivia Wilde: Dating, Double Standards & Dealing with Scrutiny
01:43:31
Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Olivia Wilde. Olivia opens up about the double standards she has faced in her career and the scrutiny around her dating life, parenting, and fashion choices. Olivia unpacks her new film, The Invite, and discusses the role that sex and intimacy play and the real life experiences she drew upon. She also opens up about motherhood, objectification and how her views on marriage have evolved. Enjoy!
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- [00:00]
A
Call Her Daddy is brought to you by SoFi, the all in one finance app. To bank, borrow and invest Daddy Gang. Say goodbye to account fees and give your bank balance a glow up with SoFi High Yield Savings Account. Get over eight times the national average savings rate and up to a $300 welcome bonus when you sign up with eligible direct deposit. Sign up at sofi.com/call her daddy. Sofi checking and savings offered through SoFi Bank NA member FDIC terms apply. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by. Call Clorox. Oh, you know, trying to keep your house clean. It's like one day a week, you're like, I'm going to get this place together. And then all of a sudden, the rest of the week, you're like, wait, oh, my God. I need to keep it clean, but I don't want to spend all that time cleaning. Introducing Clorox Disinfecting Wipes. Okay. Boom. That is where you will be cleaning. This is your ride or die. Let me tell you something. You think, oh, I can't take that much time to clean. You don't need to. You just need Clorox Disinfecting Wipes. Because just one Clorox wipe tackles up to 50ft of cleaning. I remember my entire childhood. My mother would whip out that box, and immediately my house would smell incredible. You don't need to spend tons of time or millions of products to clean your house with Clorox wipes. It's just one and done. Even with sticky, icky messes. We are talking kitchen, bathroom, literally anywhere. Okay? Anywhere you need to clean up. This is what you need to be using. These wipes are perfect for multitasking. If you're like, oh, my gosh, I need to do this right now. You. Yeah, you do. Because, Daddy Gang, what are we waiting for? Plus, the gentle lemon scent is so light and fresh. That smell. When I came home from school, oh, Lori got the house together. Shop Clorox Disinfecting wipes now@walmart.com Clorox wipes. What is up, Daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy Daddy. Olivia Wilde. Welcome to Call Her Daddy.
- [01:58]
B
Hi, Daddy.
- [01:59]
A
I am so excited to meet you.
- [02:01]
B
Likewise.
- [02:02]
A
It's been a long time coming.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I have so much respect for you. You have had such an incredible, impressive career. Started as an actress, still are an actress, then obviously evolved into being a director. And I just feel like you have been at the center of some of the biggest conversations for women and motherhood and ambition and relationships. And public everything like, you're it, girl. So I'm so excited to talk to you today. Ditto in all the ways last night. Let me paint the picture. Take me through it. So I get into bed. I get all my favorite pregnancy snacks. Yes. I sit back, relax, put on my heating pad, and I turn on your new film. And I had no idea what to expect, because at first I was like, I saw the trailer.
- [02:52]
B
Yeah.
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A
But it's still. It was kind of ambiguous and, like, I didn't know what to expect. The invite is so incredible. Screen time zero. I didn't pick up my phone. Whoa. Well, because you throw us right into it.
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B
Yes.
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A
And it was so incredible the way that you explore modern relationships in a very, like, nuanced, psychological way. It was right up my alley. It's amazing. Seriously, it's so you.
- [03:21]
B
I'm so happy that you watched it and that. I mean, we are both pare heads. We both love Esther. Esther's all over that shit and was our literal consultant. And we have to talk about that.
- [03:33]
A
Yes, we have to.
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B
But I'm so happy that I can discuss it with you because it deals with so many of the things that you bring up so eloquently with your guests, and it's relatable for so many of us going through relationship dramas in every single way.
- [03:49]
A
Well, that was what I found so fascinating, was I. I didn't know what. When people were telling me, like, oh, my God, Esther Perel was involved, I'm like, what does that even mean?
- [03:57]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
And she was a consultant on the movie every single time I've ever sat down with her, because she's been on the show multiple times. She reframes everything for me. She reframes my life.
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B
I know.
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A
Intimacy, relationships. What initially drew you to her work?
- [04:13]
B
Well, she was my shrink at one point. Oh, yeah. Years and years and years and years and years ago, I learned about her. I read mating in captivity 20 years ago, and it blew my mind. And I was immediately drawn to her and her completely original perspective on relationships and on individuality within relationships. And it felt like it was smashing this idea apart that we had all I had been raised with, which was the idea that you kind of needed to be in relationship with someone else as opposed to, like, who are you individually, within the relationship and all the responsibility one needs to take within a relationship. But I have to tell you, I don't think I understood it 20 years ago. And I spent then 20 years of, like, going through relationships and then made this movie and suddenly felt like I understood Esther. And. And. Okay. So when I read the script, Rashida Jones and Wilma Cormorant had written this script, and it was based on a Spanish play that was turned into a movie. And this English language adaptation arrived, and I was like, this is so fucking funny and real, and it feels like it has Esther vibes. And I asked Rashida. I was like, did you talk to Esther? She's like, well, she's obviously. So she inspired it, but we haven't seen sat down with her yet. So I was like, let's get her in here. We sat down with her. We asked her to come on board as an actual consultant. And then she became our guide through the whole thing. And then Penelope Cruz based her character on Esther. And so you get to kind of almost hang out with Esther through Penelope.
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A
Okay, first of all, the fact that you actually had her at your shrink, that is the biggest flex.
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B
Can you imagine?
- [06:02]
A
No, like, I can't. But also, like, I don't. I wonder how many clients she actually has. But to be one of hers, that's an honor and a privilege. And scary.
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B
And she's tough. You can imagine she's tough. She would. She. She, like, holds your feet to the fire. She does, like, bullshit.
- [06:18]
A
I read that you would call her throughout, and in the middle of filming, you would literally call her and be like, I need your take on this. While you guys were trying to dissect the script. Yeah. What is something that she really helped you resolve? Hmm.
- [06:33]
B
She really helped us resolve how to talk about sex and kind of tension in the relationship in a way that allowed everyone in the conflict to be right so that it didn't become an oversimplified conflict of, like, this guy's being an asshole and she's being kind of a bitch and blah, blah. It was like, everyone is right because everyone's coming from within their experience, and that's what she sees all the time in her on her couch. And so she was like, the person never presents with their. The truth. They present with, you know, their interpretation of it, the kind of reflection of the truth. And so they don't ever say what they really mean. They're saying this kind of how they feel. Exactly.
- [07:22]
A
She's so fucking smart.
- [07:23]
B
She's so fucking smart. And she just. I'm the same as you. Like, she. Every time I listen to her or read her work, I am blown open again. And I'm like, oh, God, I forgot. Of course.
- [07:35]
A
It's so eye opening. And it really forces you to look internally of, where am I wrong? And it's so much easier to point the blame on your partner, and it's way more fun. But then when you're like, oh, I have to do the hard work now, like, what is this triggering for me? What am I projecting right now?
- [07:55]
B
Exactly. And you get. You get to the point, I think, in life, when you go through enough relationship drama where you realize your patterns. And she's so good at analyzing those patterns and saying, like, if this keeps happening to you, if you keep facing this, what's actually going on? Why are you. Why are you drawn to this kind of thing? That is something you clearly want to resolve, but also just, like, learn how to be a whole fucking person. Stop being mad at someone for not completing you. Who are you? And. And it takes sometimes a long time to figure that out. It took me a long time to figure that out.
- [08:33]
A
Let's get into it.
- [08:34]
B
I mean, figuring it out.
- [08:35]
A
We're still figuring it out. Olivia Call Her Daddy is brought to you by SoFi, the all in one finance app to bank, borrow, and invest. Daddy gang. Say goodbye to account fees and give your bank balance a glow up with Sofi High Yield Savings account. Get over 8 times the national average savings rate and up to a 300 welcome bonus when you sign up with eligible direct deposit. Sign up@sofi.com. call her daddy. Sofi checking and savings offered through Sofi Bank n a member FDIC term supply. Call Her Daddy's brought to you by by Clorox.
- [09:25]
B
Oh.
- [09:26]
A
You know, trying to keep your house clean. It's like one day a week, you're like, I'm gonna get this place together. And then all of a sudden, the rest of the week, you're like, wait, oh, my God. I. I need to keep it clean, but I don't want to spend all that time cleaning. Introducing Clorox Disinfecting Wipes. Okay. Boom. That is where you will be cleaning. This is your ride or die. Let me tell you something. You think, oh, I can't take that much time to clean. You don't need to. You just need Clorox Disinfecting Wipes. Because just one Clorox wipe tackles up to 50ft of cleaning. I remember my entire childhood. My mother would whip out that box, and immediately my house would smell incredible. You don't need to spend tons of time or millions of products to clean your house with Clorox wipes. It's just one and done. Even with sticky, icky messes. We are talking kitchen, bathroom, literally Anywhere. Okay. Anywhere you need to clean up, this is what you need to be using. These wipes are perfect for multitasking. If you're like, oh, my gosh, I need to do this right now. You. Yeah, you do, because Daddy. Gang, what are we waiting for? Plus, the gentle lemon scent is so light and fresh. That smell. When I came home from school. Oh, Lori got the house together. Shop Clorox Disinfecting wipes now@walmart.com Clorox wipes. I feel like so much of your directorial style is heavily influenced, obviously, by your own life and your experiences and where you've come from. And so I'm excited to get to know you a little bit better today.
- [10:50]
B
It's unfair. I feel like I know you really well.
- [10:52]
A
I know. Okay, so let's go back. Both of your parents are, in a way, storytellers.
- [10:58]
B
Yes. They're journalists. Yeah.
- [10:59]
A
So what were, like, dinner conversations, like, at your house growing up?
- [11:03]
B
They were great. There was so much curiosity, and that's what I really value. There were so many questions asked, and people were, you know, people. Because we always had lots of people in the house. They were very social people.
- [11:16]
A
We.
- [11:16]
B
We always had really interesting people around the table challenging each other. The idea of, like, discourse and debate was really valued. So having an opinion as a kid was encouraged. It wasn't just like, shut up and agree. It was like, what do you feel? What do you think?
- [11:33]
A
Have.
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B
Have something to say? And they are really funny people and really great storytellers. And, like, I showed them this movie, and it's funny because it's actually kind of similar to you. Like. Like, your dad has heard you talk about everything, like, Gluckluck, Olivia.
- [11:53]
A
Yep. Yes, he has. Hi, Dad.
- [11:56]
B
I get that because my dad has had to sit through so many movies where I've been, like, buck ass naked doing sex scenes, and he's like, oh, wonderful work, darling. And this movie, he had to hear me talking about, like, DP pegging. Like, I was like, how's he gonna react? And they loved it. And I was like, I'm so lucky to have parents who have a great sense of humor. And that started really young. They were just laughers.
- [12:20]
A
That's so beautiful. Because the lack of shame in a household completely disarms then you for the rest of your life, where you almost feel like, wait, what's wrong with all of you? Like, why aren't you as open? And, like, why wouldn't we talk about this? Because this is what everyone's doing, and that's such like a privileged. I've learned in a household I've had. My mom is such a feminist.
- [12:39]
B
Yes.
- [12:39]
A
And I wanted to ask you about your mom because I know I read something where you talk about your mom in a way that you're like, she's strong, she's fierce, she's an independent woman. Oh yeah. What was it like growing up with a woman and a mother like that at the head of your family?
- [12:57]
B
It's interesting because she was unlike all the other moms. And when I was young, sometimes I was like, why aren't you a normal mom? Why aren't you always, you know, the one picking me up from school and at home and like making dinner? I was like trying to tradwife my mom and she was not having it. And she let me come to the realization on my own of like, girl, you're going to understand the value of this example as you get older. And all my friends wanted to have my mom. They would come over and sit and just sit at the kitchen table with her and tell her their hopes and dreams. And she took everyone seriously. And that is also something I feel like you have, from what I've observed is your mom clearly took you seriously as a person, was like, go for it. And I think that was the greatest example. She also was in a male dominated industry showing me how to blast through those walls constantly. She worked her ass off. She dealt with so much, I'm sure judgment for not being. She was going to really dangerous places. So my mom was. My parents were both war correspondents, so it wasn't like she was just like missing ballet because she was at, you know, a board meeting. She was like, in Afghanistan. Like it was. She faced a lot of judgment for being a mother who's putting her life on the line for journalism. And it was like she couldn't fucking win. It was like, you know, you can be a mom who's, who's present and giving a great example to your daughters and your son. My brother's way younger. So it was, for a long time it was me and my sister. But then you get, you know, then you get shit for like not being there for everything. And that is something that any working mother faces and you will too.
- [14:49]
A
And it's about to begin. Yes. Wow, that's fascinating because hearing, right, hearing the experience as a child of you being like, I had so much respect watching my mother navigate all of that. And at the same time then people being like, oh my God, she's, she's considered potentially a bad Mother by leaving and going doing what she loves because she's not staying with her children. And look what it instilled in you, though. It's like to each their own. But the judgment placed on a working mom is. It's unlike anything you've ever seen, right?
- [15:28]
B
It's crippling. It's so hard. And the only thing that heals it is talking about it and like sharing, like all things with shame, once you air it out, then it dissipates, then it. Shame dies once you, once you share. But it is, it's hard. It's hard. Like, I think it's one of the reasons that more women don't direct films is because the feeling of saying, like, I have to go. I'm going to miss soccer practice. I'm going to miss this adorable Christmas pageant because I'm going to be on set and I'm not even like, speaking truth to power as a journalist. Like, my mom, like, she was like, making the world better. I'm just like telling funny stories on film. And sometimes you're like, oh, man, I. It is, it's really hard to, to get over that judgment. But there's a lot of other moms going through it, without a doubt. Yeah.
- [16:21]
A
How do you think your mom, like, you mentioned being in such a male dominated industry and then you obviously were going to come into one. Like, how do you think she kind of taught you how to hold space for yourself and be comfortable taking up space when it's mainly men leading the rooms?
- [16:39]
B
God. I think just by example and just by kind of not really entertaining insecurity, like it was like, seen as like, yeah, but you'll get through it. Doesn't matter. Push through that. You'll do it. You want to do it, then you'll do it. And I think that she was always just encouraging a sense of real faith in me that, that made me have a real sense of faith in myself, which is very valuable, I think. Yeah. I think she just, she just seemed to demonstrate, maybe it was by demonstrating that the, the, the bullshit was inevitable. So you don't get kind of floored by it. You're like, here it is. Heard about this. This is gonna be fine. I'm gonna move through this.
- [17:29]
A
Something that made me think about too, with my mom. And when you were like, why can't you be one of the normal moms? I would, like, why can't you be more oblivious? Like, my mom, like, was too on it that I was like, Lori, like, pretend you're, you're like, the other moms, like, you don't notice these things. And I think at a young age there is a respect, but there's also in a capacity, like you can't truly appreciate it when you're so much younger. And because it does kind of force a light on you to be mature and to grow up and to be in your own at a young age where maybe another kid would be more like, oh, we're just still playing with fairies and all this. And my mother was like, intense and she had a lot of opinions and she wanted me to be a very bright, individual woman. Oh, yeah. And I can't say enough now.
- [18:16]
B
That was the thing. The only thing she really criticized me for was when she felt like I was assimilating. She was like, what, what is that? Who are you being right now? Is that from something you saw on tv? And I remember being so annoyed by that. And, you know, I think the most important thing you can do for your kid is just have their back, is just make them feel like even though you might have, you'll have your conflicts, which is healthy. We learn conflict through battling out with our moms. I swear, it's like a little training zone.
- [18:47]
A
So true.
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B
But then, you know, they have your back. I remember I went to boarding school and I remember my mom coming to visit and I was in trouble. I was always in trouble, but I was in trouble because I had a, a giant poster of Bob Marley on my wall that just had like a five foot joint across like the wall of my room.
- [19:06]
A
They're like, no, Olivia.
- [19:07]
B
Yeah, they were like, she has paraphernalia like you. She can't have a, like drugs on the wall. And my mom came in and looked at and she goes, well, what's your proof that that's a joint? I think that looks like a cigarette that's legal. And the woman was like, I think it looks like it's not. It's like clearly was like a huge blunt. It was like a Bob Marley.
- [19:26]
A
Like, like, let's go. You know what, it's so interesting. I had this conversation the other day with a friend where we were talking about the value that it has when you had a parent who would stick up for you when you were younger and would believe you. Like, I, I have friends who are like, oh, my parents were always like, what did you do wrong? And instead to have a parent to be like, I believe her, I'm with her. That changes everything. That's again, another privilege to have parents that are like rallying for you and standing up for you.
- [19:53]
B
Then in private, they're like, get the off your Olivia.
- [19:57]
A
Are you doing. But to publicly present. Yeah. She's like, rip it down.
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B
Yeah.
- [20:02]
A
That's why I was going to ask you. I feel like people often describe you as someone who is unapologetic about having strong opinions, and I really respect that about you. But I can imagine, like you said when you were younger, there's some getting into trouble and there's people not understanding you. What do you think people didn't or maybe misunderstood about you in, like, high school era?
- [20:26]
B
Oh, God. Oh, everything. I. I guess also because, like, in high school, you don't really understand yourself, right?
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A
We're like, who am I?
- [20:35]
B
You're, like, trying on different personalities. But I really felt like I felt like such an alien. And I didn't feel, oh, God. I mean, I had my best friends. I always, always formed really strong friendships with girls. And they were my, like, ride or Die crew. And that's why when I made Booksmart, it was all about that. Your first deep love is the platonic love with your best girlfriend because. Or your best friend because it's the first person who understands you and you feel that maybe they understand you more than your parents, more than anybody. So I had individuals who I felt understood me. But as a whole, I. The feeling of being misunderstood has been, like, a consistent thing in my life. And I think that when I was younger, it made me mad, and I, like, bucked against it in every way. And I think as you get older, you're a little bit more forgiving of it. It's like a little bit. I don't know. I think the wisdom you gain is really that you know nothing, Right? You're like, oh, I don't know anything. I'm very. Oh, I'm much more kind of open and humble and empathetic. Like, with age, every year, it's just like, oh, maybe I'm wrong is actually a great bit of wisdom.
- [21:57]
A
And I also think it does make sense. When you're younger, you're so malleable that you're. Even when your peers are telling you who you are, what you shouldn't be, you do have the question marks in your head because you also are like, I actually don't know who I am, so maybe I am like, that. Maybe I am this or that. When you get older, you do start to get more set in stone of like, okay, this is a pattern. I know myself. I'm good like this. I don't like this about myself. And so when you're still misunderstood. You're like, yeah, that's actually kind of right. Or that's kind of. But you're more, you're set and you're more of a human being. So when you're younger, it's just harder. It's hard.
- [22:32]
B
You're kind of like rootless. When you're younger, you're like, you know, and, and then as your roots get deeper, then, then I guess like to continue with this metaphor of like a tree, when the, when the storm hits you, it's not as destabilizing.
- [22:47]
A
True.
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B
You're like, okay, but I know my roots. And, and you're just getting more and more rooted and that's what really matters. And when you're young, you're just like, it's too easy to push you over.
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A
When you graduated high school, you took a year off, then you never went back to school.
- [23:03]
B
I'm on a 23 year year off right now.
- [23:06]
A
Perfect. You're like, one day I'm going to go back. Just kidding. Never. Like, at that point, what did you want for yourself?
- [23:12]
B
I wanted to act. I really wanted to be an actress. I always wanted to be an actress. And so I, I deferred. I was going to go to bard in New York and I, instead of going to like to have like orgies in the waterfall of my liberal arts college in upstate New York, which is all I would have done, I came to LA and I was a casting assistant and I pounded the pavement going to. And I was in the cattle call of pilot season where we all were looked exactly the same and tried so hard to assimilate like. And then slowly learned to value my singularity as we all hopefully do. And, and, but it was a. I mean, I gave myself nine months. I was like, if I don't have a job in nine months, I'll go back to school.
- [24:01]
A
Okay. And in the midst of all this, you eloped and got married at 19 years old. I read that and I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Eloped in Mary also. Was it at Burning Man?
- [24:13]
B
It was at Burning Man. Well, yeah, we had. The decision was made at Burning man. And I believe there was a Burning man sort of ceremony. And then the paperwork was done back in Los Angeles with a man who I think we found on the Internet and like, showed up and like, we signed a paper that's probably invalid. And then I was like, all right. And then immediately was like, wait, what the fuck did I just do? Because I had a pattern already at that point of Spontaneous decision making. And I think that is one of the beauties of youth. But I would get myself into a whole bunch of trouble all the time.
- [24:52]
A
Were you looking for marriage?
- [24:54]
B
No. My God, no. I. I think it was like, seemed like probably the craziest thing to do and. And it was so romantic and insane that I think I was like, yeah, that's an. Let. Let me do the most unexpected, insane thing.
- [25:13]
A
It's funny because I was coming in here and I was like, this doesn't feel like 19. Like, very traditional Livia being like, I'm gonna settle down and build my. This feels like a little bit of a rebellion of like, fuck, I'm gonna get married.
- [25:24]
B
Of course my parents were like, oh my God. Like, of course the rebellion. Because I had. Because I could have done anything. The way I rebelled at that point was to do this thing that was like, really traditional. And then we did not have a very traditional marriage. It was very bohemian. And I am grateful for it because it meant that I spent most of my 20s. I mean, I guess we broke up when I was like 25.
- [25:52]
A
How long did it last?
- [25:55]
B
I guess really like six years. Okay, seven years. And I. That was my only marriage. I never got married again. I think that being a 25 year old divorcee is a really funny. Imagine dating and you're like some 25, recently divorced, where you're like, I can
- [26:13]
A
rent a car, but I'm divorced.
- [26:17]
B
But I'm divorced. I mean, what a weird. It was so funny.
- [26:21]
A
How did it ultimately end?
- [26:23]
B
I mean, I think just an awareness of like, whoa, what are we doing? This is nuts. And I just. I had worked constantly from like 18 to 25. Once I started working, I did not leave set for many, many, many years. I mean, I just worked and worked and worked and then hit like, yeah, 25. I was still working all the time, but I was starting to feel like, wait a minute, what is my life offset? And who am I really? What do I want to do? And. And it was not a very tumultuous breakup. It was just like, this is clearly, we have. We have grown up. We're in very different stages of life. And you know, and it's funny now, like, we're friends. I mean, it seems like 100,000 years ago. It's crazy.
- [27:12]
A
That's so young. Yeah. I also loved it because the invite. Your new movie starts and it opens with a pretty bold Oscar Wilde quote. I literally am like eating my ice cream, like, oh, fuck. Like, it just opens and the quote is about marriage. It says one should always be in love, and that is the reason one should never marry. And I literally was like, oh, you're like, oh, no. And it. Everyone.
- [27:41]
B
When I put that in there, people were like, oh, it's just. It's. People are gonna think you're just like, you've lost all faith. And the thing is, I think that quote is both very optimistic and cynical. It's like, the thing that often happens to love in marriage is that we stop actively loving. Like Esther likes to say to us, love is a verb. It is something you have to continue to engage in. And I think the quote is acknowledging that in many cases, marriage becomes the end of that engagement in the process of loving, and it becomes something that involves a lot of entitlement, and that's where it dies.
- [28:21]
A
So how do you feel about marriage, Olivia?
- [28:24]
B
I mean, I. I guess that's sort of how I feel. I feel like it's something. I think it is an optimistic thing to do in pessimistic times. You know, like, when I see people getting married, I'm like, all right, good for you. Give it a go. Like, why not? I was having this conversation with, you know, Terry Real.
- [28:43]
A
No.
- [28:44]
B
Oh, you would love Terry Real. He's kind of like the male Esther, although they have very different opinions. But he is a really insightful couples therapist. And we were having this conversation. He did a Q and A in Boston after one screening. And I was like, it's crazy that the, like, 50% of marriages fail. It might be more than that now. I don't even know. And yet people do it every day. And I was like, if we. If 50% of planes crash, would we keep getting on flights?
- [29:15]
A
Like, everyone's like, olivia, shut up. We don't want to hear this. Yeah, but it's true.
- [29:20]
B
That is a little bit. We like to be like, la, la, la, la. It won't be me. But the thing is, like, I actually do think it's a worthwhile institution. I think there's a lot of value in ceremony and ritual. I think making a promise to somebody to continue engaging in love with intention is a beautiful thing. I just think most of the time, once there is not most, that sounds so bad. But some of the time, for some, the contract leads to this entitlement that stops the active engagement. And also, the institution of marriage has never really been favorable towards women. And I think there is this part of me that's. That's resistant to the idea of. Of. Of subscribing to that. But at the same Time. I'm also, like, the most, like, ludicrous romantic in every way. So, you know, I get it.
- [30:20]
A
So you will never get married again.
- [30:22]
B
I don't know. I mean, knowing me, like, I'll get married, like, I was. Got married at whatever, 19. I'll probably get married at, like, 85.
- [30:29]
A
Fair. Okay, that's cute. That's cute. You're like, from Burning man to 85.
- [30:33]
B
We're back. When I'm back at Burning man at 85, I'll. I'll get.
- [30:36]
A
No, but I get it. I agree with you. You. I think for women, historically, it has not been something that is even favorable to the woman. Not even a 50, 50 situation. And so I think there is a lot that needs to go into it before you decide. I never thought I wanted to get married. I met Matt and I was like. I literally told him, like, we will never get married. And he was like, okay. And I was like, so just know that we're never getting married. And then I changed my mind, which is also a beautiful thing to do. But I almost needed to know that he didn't care about. About the piece of paper, and he was down to just partner it up with me for the rest of our life.
- [31:08]
B
Also, you didn't need it, which is why you can enjoy it as a beautiful thing. When I hear girlfriends of mine saying, like, I just want to get married, I'm like, you won't. That's not going to lead to the result you're looking for. Because if you are just. If you're looking for it to complete you, you're not completing that part of yourself that obviously deserves that. That work. And you're looking for it to somehow feel chosen. And I get it. Like, society has taught us to look forward for that from fucking Disney on. Like, we are all encouraged to find this, but I just think that if it was something, I don't know if we could turn it into something that felt a little bit more modern in terms of what the promises are. And also acknowledge that it doesn't mean you're going to stop changing. And I think for a lot of people, it places expectations on you remaining the person you were when you signed said contract.
- [32:06]
A
That is such a good point. That's a really great point.
- [32:10]
B
Change.
- [32:11]
A
We're gonna come back to this.
- [32:12]
B
Yes.
- [32:13]
A
Your early career. I would really be upset with myself if I didn't bring this up, because younger Alex, there's something that you did one show. Oh, no. That is still my favorite show of all time. What do you Think it is that
- [32:30]
B
you were in sithyoc.
- [32:31]
A
Yeah, I was Alex, damn it. You were Alex. Is it still so crazy that people ask you about this character?
- [32:39]
B
Yes. You're like, wait, also for you. That was like, that's old. Like, you did. Where did you discover, like, Nick at night? That's old.
- [32:48]
A
It was so old. It was. My friend's older sister would watch it and I'm like, watching in the corner, like, this is the best. And I'm living in Pennsylvania at the time. Like, the concept of orange a dream, I didn't even understand it.
- [33:01]
B
And your character, she was such a badass. I loved her so much. And yes, people, young people Today, like a 16 year old the other day came up to me in a deli and she was like, I just want to say, I love the OC it's my favorite show. Alex Kelly's my favorite. I was like, what the fuck? Where are you finding it? But I think it's now it's available on streaming and people are finding it. I loved her. I was so. I was so excited to be there and to be a part of something that I had no idea was such a phenomenon. When I joined it, which is very me, I was so completely out of touch. I think I was still living because the thing I didn't mention about the aforementioned marriage is we lived on a school bus in Venice. Oh, I lived.
- [33:45]
A
You're like, just like, the Burning man wedding, shotgun wedding. And then, boom, we're living on the school bus. And then I'm on the OC and
- [33:51]
B
then I was on the OC So I would get, like, picked up for events from the bus and they'd be like, what is she? Like, I don't understand. And I would be like, no, no, no. This is my choice.
- [33:59]
A
This is how I like to live.
- [34:01]
B
Eventually did move into a home with walls, but I was so. I didn't watch tv and then I was on TV and I was like, hey, this is really fun. I love this. But had no fucking clue the phenomenon that show was until I was on it. And then I was like, meeting hordes of teenagers and being like, oh, shit, this is like a thing. And I joined once. It was already a thing. I should have known better. But that character was incredible. And she was this bisexual badass who loved live music and ran a business. Like, none of it makes sense. How did she own a business? She's like a minor. None of it. We can't dig too deep into the logic. No, but she was.
- [34:44]
A
She was amazing. And I think I was thinking about it. I feel like that was, like, one of the first times that we actually saw, like, an openly queer female.
- [34:53]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [34:54]
A
For millennials on television was so tame.
- [34:58]
B
But by today's standards, we are just, like, raw dogging it in heated rivalry. And now it is nuts to think about the fact that I remember when Misha and I did the kiss, and it was like, sweeps week, which is when, like, that was a big deal and the ratings would spike. And for that show, it was a ma. It was like an event. It was an event, and it was like the most tame kiss.
- [35:24]
A
Literally, just like, it's not even like a full make out.
- [35:26]
B
No, it's like a greeting. It was so. And. And I think that. I think it had a lot to do with the fact that her character had been kind of created as this, like, idealized, like, like gorgeous, ingenue, sweet, pure thing. And the idea of, of queerness at the time was still relegated to, like, the, the like, quirky weirdo, weird kids. And, like, you had to. And it was not mainstream girls. It was like, it was not. That girl was never the, the popular, pretty. It was. And that I think the idea that this girl might be figuring out her sexuality, that was what people were really like. Oh, my God. And there were a lot of young people who saw that and started to ask themselves questions and have conversations with their parents, and that's what I hear to this day, which is amazing.
- [36:30]
A
I love also how you went from one iconic role to another 13 fun house. I know.
- [36:36]
B
I'm like, listen, I have one skill and one skill only. I, I. That was another show that was big when I joined it. I'm really good at, like, hopping on board.
- [36:46]
A
This is fun. I feel like such a fuck it attitude. Like, just defiant. And both of those characters were very, very. I don't know, it just memorable for you as a character. You really brought them to life. You did a great job.
- [37:03]
B
I think I aspired to be them. I think that that kind of badass attitude was probably what I, what I wanted. So I got to, like, cosplay as them.
- [37:12]
A
Okay, quick rapid fire questions about the OCN house.
- [37:15]
B
Yes.
- [37:16]
A
What is one medical term you remember from the house?
- [37:18]
B
Synesthesia.
- [37:19]
A
Oh, my God. Okay. Okay. Which cast was more intimidating to join the O.C.
- [37:26]
B
yeah. Oh, boy. Fair.
- [37:27]
A
Wait, why?
- [37:28]
B
They were just cool kids.
- [37:29]
A
Yeah.
- [37:30]
B
Yeah. And they were. They. They were. They knew how to take it in stride. They. I, I was. We would watch them on red carpets and be like, what do we do? How does it work? They were just cool. They. It was like suddenly being seated at the table with the most popular kids in the cafeteria, and you're like, oh, thanks for letting me sit here, guys.
- [37:54]
A
That's so fair. You were in your late teens and early twenties when you were filming both the shows. Did you have a crush on anyone on either set?
- [38:02]
B
Yeah, I'm sure. Wait, well. Oh, God. I mean, on House, how could you not have a crush on Hugh Laurie? I just. I. I love him. He was. He was so dreamy and so smart and so warm and taught me so much, and he's extremely crush worthy. Good.
- [38:20]
A
It's good. Okay, which character did you relate to more? Alex or 13?
- [38:24]
B
Probably 13 because she was more of, like, Alex was way cooler than me. I was not. I mean, the idea of being someone who. I think that character was like, she lived on her own in a beach house and ran a bar and knew everything about cool indie music. And 13 was, like, kind of like a little more of a nerd who was really determined to do her job. And, I mean, I think I related to her more.
- [38:59]
A
Fair. Okay. Better kisser. Misha Barton, Adam Brody.
- [39:05]
B
Misha was a great kisser. I remember she had really pretty lips. She had the most beautiful.
- [39:11]
A
She was perfect. She's perfect.
- [39:13]
B
Yeah. Her. She has the most extraordinary face.
- [39:18]
A
The two of you on camera together.
- [39:20]
B
Oh, but I. I did not. I know. I had extreme imposter syndrome with that. I was like, but she's such a pretty, pretty doll.
- [39:28]
A
You guys are amazing together. Okay, should we bring back Alex's bump it hairstyle?
- [39:32]
B
Oh, my God. Which ripped from Gwen Stefani with the purple streak with my My Little Pony rainbow. Bright.
- [39:39]
A
So psychotic.
- [39:40]
B
Yeah.
- [39:40]
A
Which shows need a reboot. Would you do it ever?
- [39:44]
B
Oh, my God. Wouldn't that be so fun? The, like, geriatric version of the OC Would be really funny.
- [39:51]
A
You're the mom now. Or you're still at the bar.
- [39:54]
B
Still there. And now it's just, like, a little sad. It's like, huh, she's still working in the bar.
- [39:58]
A
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- [41:43]
B
So funny, because it's definitely the same for every woman in this business, right? And I think I really didn't feel like I fit normal beauty standards for most of my life. So there was a, it was a really interesting thing to suddenly feel like I was suddenly hitting those standards. And it was like, wait, did this. The standards must have all just changed because now they fit me. Like, I. This is so crazy that this used to exist because now it's like, what in the. But we. When they had the ranked Maxim 100 list, Hottest 100, and I was number one, and I remember my publicist called me and said, you're number one. Do you want to accept it? Because you can like say no. I guess if you accept it, then they'll do this cover shoot and they'll do a piece about it. And I remember being like, I understand that this is the most fucked up thing in the world, but the part of me that felt like the girl who didn't fit in from high school, the girl who never felt like I fit the standards, who felt awkward and wrong in every way. I know that part of me was like, really? Like, you want me? I fit it now. And it took me many years to understand and to unravel that It's a dangerous thing to suddenly be told, like, now you are good and we want you, and now your value, you are literally being ranked and your value is entirely dependent on our fickle, subjective definition of beauty. Crazy.
- [43:33]
A
It is so interesting, I guess that, yeah, that must have been the one, because I feel like I remember, like, you got like most beautiful woman in the world. Or maybe that was another one you won.
- [43:42]
B
It was just a crazy thing and it was like the standards change and you just happened to fit that. And I wonder if that would have existed if social media had been a thing, if. If that would have even been able to. To exist. I don't know. I guess it exists in different ways now, but I just remember being like, it's just so crazy.
- [44:03]
A
When do you think the fixation on your appearance started to impact the way that you viewed yourself? Because at first you're like, it was kind of great.
- [44:10]
B
Yeah.
- [44:11]
A
And then.
- [44:11]
B
Yeah. Well, then it's like, it's easier if you never feel like you have it and you don't expect it and you're not trying to maintain it, but once you've been told that you like, ding, ding, ding, you made it. We think you're pretty now, and it's like, oh, great. And then it's like, and how about now and now? And then, inevitably, anytime someone uses a superlative to describe you, like you're the hottest, there's going to be a whole bunch of people who are like, I don't think so. I think you're the ugliest. And then that's the part of you that, that actually. I mean, that's the thing that the inner part of you actually is gonna. It's gonna agree with because you're gonna be like, see, I'm not the prettiest. I'm the ugliest. And I knew it. And they see it. And now I have to, like, run from that. And I mean, God, I think about actresses in their. I mean, it's women and it's not just actresses, but it's just highlighted here that the, the, the desperation to maintain that and you can't. And, and it's just exhausting.
- [45:17]
A
It is because it's all in the hands of the. The eyes of the beholder. So like you said, like the beauty industry and the way that it so constantly is changing in the standards for women, like the conventionally attractive man has never shifted. It has always been the same standard. True. And for us, it's like, it's either the heroin chic thing thin, or the, like the curvier or this. And it's like the fact that a body type goes in and out of a fad and it's like a phase. You're like, how is. How is a body type blowing my beauty?
- [45:52]
B
You're so right that for men it's always been like. It's always been that, like Paul Newman, Steve McQueen, like, hot. Like, there's that kind of vibe. But then for women at the same time, we went from like, Audrey Hepburn, Marilyn Monroe, and then even the difference between like that, like, like Cindy Crawford, Kate Moss, and then like Giselle, and it's just like, no, now we want boobs. Now we don't want boobs. Now we want eyebrows. We don't want eyebrows. Now we want skinny. No one hate skinny. And you're like, okay, I can change. Don't worry. Just give me a minute. And it's.
- [46:25]
A
It's exhausting. I think something you've talked about before, the limitations about being reduced to your appearance. And then there's also the side where you're like. But there is. Beauty can be of power. And so you're kind of dancing on this tightrope of like, do you lean in? Do you not lean in?
- [46:48]
B
Right. Do you recover? When are you being objectified? When is it self objectification that somehow empowering? Like those, those lines are.
- [46:56]
A
Do you feel like you've ever used your beauty to your advantage?
- [46:59]
B
100%. I mean, I think that's what. I guess I could have, you know, at 21 or whatever I was, when the Maxim thing, I could have been like, I reject. I refuse. No. On a matter of principle. No, thank you. I was like, great. And guess what? I got roles upon roles. From that it led to casting. It's crazy that it put me in the. At least put me in the room to get roles for show.
- [47:26]
A
Sure.
- [47:27]
B
And I think then you. You have to take responsibility for your own participation in that self objectification. It's like, I put myself here. You can't be like, why is everyone looking at me? It's like, you, right?
- [47:40]
A
But here we are. Here we are, right?
- [47:42]
B
And. And I think, yeah, that understanding of really keeping an eye on how much you are, are participating and understanding you have control over that. You can disengage when you choose, but understand that you are the one putting yourself in it.
- [48:01]
A
Speaking of when you had said, you know, maintaining it. And as women, as we get older, we're like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. I need to stay that same Maxim girl that I was.
- [48:09]
B
Oh, God.
- [48:10]
A
20, 26.
- [48:11]
B
Oh, boy.
- [48:12]
A
This year you go on a red carpet.
- [48:15]
B
Olivia, I'm so happy you're bringing this up.
- [48:18]
A
Olivia. I feel like I opened my phone that morning and was like, why jump scare? No, I'm like, why am I seeing Olivia Wilde all over my painting right now?
- [48:27]
B
An actual dead body. I looked like, did you ever Watch. Are you too young for Tales from the Crypt?
- [48:34]
A
Yes.
- [48:35]
B
Oh, my God. Somebody out there will know what I mean. There was like a.
- [48:39]
A
A.
- [48:39]
B
Like a little. A dead sarcophagus. Man, that. I looked like a shrunken. I. I don't even know how to describe it. It was absolutely insane. And I could not believe. I was like. But here's the thing. I was like, oh. You know, I was at a small regional film festival. I was in San Francisco showing the film. So happy. And then that, like, It's a tiny little red carpet, wasn't. It was a tiny slip of a carpet. Just like, basically like a mat. We did the thing, and then I saw. Saw that picture, and I was like, all right, but it probably won't. That probably won't go very far. That probably won't. No one's gonna see this.
- [49:22]
A
No one cares.
- [49:23]
B
No one cares about.
- [49:24]
A
Oh.
- [49:25]
B
And then suddenly, it was fucking everywhere. And I was like, oh, my God. Because all of us have had this situation where, like, you take a bad picture, your friends. You're all hanging out in bad picture, and your friends send photos to, like, the group chat. And you're like, okay, cool. That one, guys. You kill it. You can't kill that one dead. We all agree, like, that one goes nowhere. And imagine if Then it was in, like, 100 million people's phones and you're like, oh, no. But that is not how I actually look. I laughed so hard. I mean, the thing that is great about having really good friends is that they are the ones to laugh the hardest. Like, I guarantee anything that has, any joke that's been made about me, my friends have made it first in a much funnier way because it's. That's the important thing. And, yeah, we had to.
- [50:18]
A
I have to say. And I get what you're saying. You're like, okay, it wasn't the best. But having been on carpets myself and prior to engaging in this industry, I didn't understand it. I will see some things of myself and be like, that's not me. That's not me. No, that's not. Because I have a photo from a different angle, and that's just not. So I actually. I will not. I don't accept that. And so I looked at that photo, and I was in. No way. People are like, we're so worried for her.
- [50:48]
B
She's worried. She's. She's. She's definitely sick. She's dying. People were diagnosing me with, like, graves disease. And I was like, wow, Megyn Kelly did An entire segment about how much I looked dead. I was like, all right, bitch. You'll do anything to not talk about, like, eliminating the Equal Rights Amendment or, like, the fucking Voting Rights Act. But I was really like. I was like, this is. This is undeniably hilarious.
- [51:20]
A
That's insane.
- [51:21]
B
But it's insane. And I was in New York. I flew to New York from there, and I was hanging out with my brother, and we were drinking a bottle of wine, and I was like, oh, man, did you see this thing? And he was like, no. What? And I was like, look at this thing. And I showed him, and he did a full, full spit take that.
- [51:39]
A
He was like, leave it to a brother.
- [51:42]
B
He was like, you look insane. And I was like, people are saying I look dead. He's like, you do. What is happening? And so he took this video of me because he was just laughing at me. And I just ended up posting it, probably because I had consumed that entire bottle of wine. And I was like, I'm just. It. It was just so funny. And I was like, you have to learn to laugh at all this, because it's not.
- [52:10]
A
It's what else you can do. Also, I loved it from your brother's that my brother would do the same thing, being like, explain yourself.
- [52:16]
B
Explain your bitch. Why do you look dead? Why were you exhumed from the ground?
- [52:20]
A
And I'm, like, sitting here with you right now, and I'm like, you look stunning, gorgeous, and you're glowing. And that was not an. But again, the way the Internet.
- [52:30]
B
Oh, yeah, it was.
- [52:31]
A
Everyone had a commentary on the way that you looked that day. It was fucking crazy.
- [52:36]
B
It's. It is crazy how we seem to want. Like, I was there promoting my movie. So excited. I'm there as a director. I'm so proud. It's almost like the Internet doesn't know how to talk about a woman. It's like there's two levers. And they're like, men in your life and body. And they're like, oh, she's speaking. Okay, which boys? Boys. Men. Body. Body. Men. Body. And they're like, you're like, you could also talk about other things. I mean, that one. I'll hand it to them. That picture was so fucking crazy. Like, I, too, would have been like, is she okay?
- [53:12]
A
But you've been in other situations that it's still about your body. And you're like, I'm here to promote my work. And they're like, but let's focus on her outfit.
- [53:19]
B
We can't see that.
- [53:20]
A
Does it Feel at all like a betrayal when, you know, it's mainly women now participating in the conversation.
- [53:30]
B
I think that it's tough because I wish we didn't do that. I. I think about how we do the job of the patriarchy for the men. We really are like, don't worry, we've got it. We'll keep ourselves, like, shackled in this way. We'll take care of it for you guys. You go have fun, and we will keep each other down. And I think it's a misplaced, probably biological skill tendency. They say the origin of gossip was actually something in medieval times that was a positive thing. It was something that, like, women have this power of communicating and sharing and talking about, you know, just being able to communicate with each other. We are verbal in a way that is like a beautiful gift. It's almost like we've taken this very positive thing and this desire to actually, I don't know, I think at our core, really connect with each other and take care of each other. And it's been manipulated to be used as a weapon against us. And, I mean, it's. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. But, like, you know, it's something that we sometimes just don't even know we're doing. We also expect more from women because I think that at our core, we do understand that we are like, we. We have high standards for ourselves. And so when we. When we see a woman doing something we don't approve of, I like to think that it's us being like, come on, girl. Like, you can be better than that. But most of them, it just feels like it's trying to smash each other's faces in.
- [55:21]
A
I. I agree. It almost feels like this, like, cyclical cycle of we don't feel good about ourselves because another person was sexist toward us. So then we then don't want the other woman to feel like she's winning, because if I can't win, then you can't win. And then we literally just keep going in this loop, and the men are, like, laughing, like, thanks, ladies.
- [55:40]
B
Thanks for taking care of that for us. I mean, yes, it's like her people hurt people. I get it, but it is. It. It is wild. It's crazy. When it is women being, like, really the most cruel. We also know the ways to be. We know the words to use to be the most cruel. Like, we understand the weapons.
- [55:58]
A
Oh, we know. Yeah. That's what I think. It's interesting, you talking about, you know, we have these levers, and it's like, talk about, you know, boys or talk about the body. And then you have Booksmart. And you were. That was 2019.
- [56:11]
B
Yes.
- [56:12]
A
And that was your first film that you directed. And I remember you had said you. You stepped into that feeling like you were finally valued for your ideas.
- [56:22]
B
Yeah.
- [56:22]
A
And so to go from Maxim 100 and being this smoke show and having everyone talk about your looks, and you're finally now on a set where it is your brain that is bringing this vision to life.
- [56:35]
B
Yes.
- [56:35]
A
What did that moment when you look back, like, mean for you personally in your career?
- [56:40]
B
Oh, game changer. I mean, it was like, oh, now I think I can stay in this career and. And stay in it for a longer time and be happy, because I think there is this. I imagine it's the same for, like, athletes, that there is this ticking clock, and it is like, well, I better enjoy this, because by the time I hit, like, 35, I'm a geriatric. Like, I. I think that for actresses, it's crazy that the more experience you have, the less valuable you are, and it shouldn't be that way, but it is, as a director, you are more valuable, the more experience you have. And I loved the idea of, like, oh, I've shifted into something that I can grow old in, which made me really excited as opposed to being anxious about getting older.
- [57:28]
A
Oh, I love that. I also think that, like, it is so much more common for men to take the transition from acting to then going to being a director compared to women. When you were directing the film, did you feel like there was an added pressure, though, because you are this woman and you've gotten out the mic now and everyone's looking at you.
- [57:50]
B
I think that I felt a pressure that was like, if we pull this off, if I can do this, it will be good for the larger female director community, and more of us will get our movies greenlit if this works. So I remember Greta Gerwig had just made Lady Bird, and I had watched her make this triumphant transition from acting to directing, and it was no surprise to anybody because she just was that good and that smart. And I was so aware that without Greta doing Lady Bird, I was not doing Booksmart. Like, she walked so I could run. And I felt. I still feel that with her. Man, she keeps elevating, and it's like, thank you for continuing. She's, like, blazing the path. And there's women for her, of course, but it allows you to connect with, like, okay, I want to make this work because I want other women and Also other actresses to see this as a possibility, to make this work, pivot.
- [58:51]
A
I mean, I love that also, Olivia, of you just being like, oh, my God, like, thank God to her, because giving again, giving flowers to other women. And you not being competitive with Greta, but you being like, yes, Greta, like, okay, but you keep going. We're all right behind you and we're going to keep following you. Because whoever is leading in that category for a woman, instead of being like her, she made it to the top. It's like, holy. She basically just allowed the rope to fall down. And now we can all climb up in a more. In a faster capacity because there's a woman sitting up there.
- [59:22]
B
They can. After Greta Gerwig made over a billion dollars with Barbie, no one can claim that female directed films are not bankable. No one can say. Now, obviously, it's also Margot producing and starring in that. That is a game changer. It just diffuses any argument made by any studio shareholder, anybody, that, like, should we be investing in female films? It's like, we sure as fuck should. That one made a bill.
- [59:48]
A
Yes.
- [59:49]
B
And way more.
- [59:50]
A
I'm curious about your experience of being behind the camera. Like, what has it taught you about people's willingness to take direction from a woman, especially a conventionally attractive woman? Like, maybe if you're directing women or men, like, it's so interesting.
- [60:09]
B
I feel like being a director is basically being multilingual. You have to be able to speak any language the actor speaks, in terms of their emotional language, also their training. Everyone comes at it from such a different place. You have to be able to, like, morph into their language and so you can help them get to where they need to be. And I think that the energy you have as a director and maybe your gender, your appearance, your anything, you can sense how that affects that. That actor or that crew member who you're also directing in a different way. You can sense how it affects them. So I think that I've been really lucky, for instance, to have a lot of men working for me in crews, let's say, in camera departments, who are so supportive and just the most supportive and the most encouraging. And I've never had the experience of being like, I have to be more tough because I'm a woman. I have to show them my. My authority. I've never had that experience. I've heard people talk about that. In my experience, I've gotten really lucky with people who I've never had to, like, flex to show that I'm like, don't with Me, look how angry I can get. It's not that at all. I think that women are naturally better communicators and leaders. I also have to say, like, wait till you see what an even better boss you are once you're a mom.
- [61:37]
A
Let's talk about it.
- [61:38]
B
Because it is not only so humbling to become a parent, but. But it just teaches you multitasking and the ability to remain calm in high stress situations. So taking that to a set as a director or into an office of any kind, I think you are just more effective.
- [62:01]
A
I couldn't wait to ask you about that because, yes, on one hand, I'm so happy that you've had that experience with men, because I don't think men are used to taking direction from women. And then what? Probably once they let their guard down and realize to come find out, oh, my God, you're way better at communicating, explaining what you want than the other man over there. Like, thank you for being so clear and direct about what you want.
- [62:23]
B
Exactly.
- [62:24]
A
And then you add on motherhood. And I. I was reading this quote from you, you were talking about directing, and you said, the greatest demonstration of power is the ability to listen and stay calm when everything is falling apart. And I was like, that sounds like a amazing parenting advice as well, Olivia.
- [62:41]
B
Yes.
- [62:42]
A
Talk to me a little bit more about how being a mom has changed you in your career.
- [62:50]
B
Oh, oh. Removes any sense of. Oh, God. Like, it, It. It humbles you in a way that is so helpful because you just understand the second you become a parent that you know nothing and that every day is a discovery of new skills. And the thing that you thought you learned yesterday doesn't seem true today. And you have to pivot. You have to remain so flexible. And I think that just has affected the way that I approach work. I really do think, though, the remaining calm under stress is probably the most helpful one because as a parent, it becomes immediately clear that you getting stressed out doesn't help anything. And that when your kid is having like a DEFCON 1 meltdown in the middle of the street, if you were to freak out and scream, nothing is gonna. It will make it worse. And the, the more stressed out your kid gets, the more calm and in control you have to be.
- [63:58]
A
Have you had, though, the comments made about, like, oh, well, don't you miss your kids? Like, what? And you're like, yeah, but all the men here have kids too.
- [64:08]
B
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
- [64:10]
A
How do you deal with that?
- [64:12]
B
You know, it's again, like, I imagine that my mom faced It a lot. And I think that if I know that I'm showing up for my kids in all the important ways, then I feel confident, despite any judgment you might subtly feel from, let's say, another parent at school who's like, oh, I didn't see you at the potluck. And it's like, no, you didn't. You didn't. Because I was at work and I was in charge of 250 people pulling off this impossible thing, so I missed the fucking potluck. I'm sorry. I feel like it's okay. Because you know what? I was there for my kid after the potluck, talking them about their day, like, engaging with them in the way that actually matters. So I think the only time it would probably get to me is if I actually knew deep down that I wasn't showing up the way I needed to. And then I probably would. That would probably break me because it would feel like it was tapping into something real. But. But I'm a very present mom even when I'm not able to be consistently present. Also, I'm a co parent. I share custody. And I am really grateful for the opportunity to have this space when I am completely with my kids, completely engaged with them, and they are, you know, the focus in a way that I think that if you. It's. It's an interesting thing. Like, once you are sharing custody with someone, it shifts the way you think about parenting. I really value the opportunity to be completely present with them and then to hand them off to a very capable co parent who is very present with them when he's with them. And then I have this space which is permission to then go work my fucking ass off. I mean, my life, I feel like I'm like a superhero. Not because of my skills, but because of the switching in between identities. Because I. My version of like, going into the phone booth and putting on the suit is like going to work and being like 100% hardcore available to work 24 7. But everyone in my life knows that then when I'm with my kids, it's the opposite. And sometimes that's challenging. You have to find the balance. But I actually find this. This kind of divvying up of. Of responsibility in a way can allow for really amazing parenting because we are always our best with our kids. They get the best of us.
- [67:00]
A
It's so fascinating and I love the way that you talked about that, because I. I do think there's so many people that, understandably, if they are separating or going through a Divorce there, understandably, is a fear of like, oh, my God, how are we going to make sure the kids are taken care of? And to hear you talk about it, I think to anyone listening that is going through that right now.
- [67:18]
B
Yeah.
- [67:19]
A
That's so, like, such a relief.
- [67:22]
B
Oh, yeah. I really want to tell people, you, you can be an incredible parent. Even if you are not with them 100 of the time and you're sharing them with their other parent, you. It doesn't mean you won't be as good of a parent. You might even be a better parent.
- [67:41]
A
Your movie when literally what Penelope Cruz is like so in her Esther voice, she's like, you think your kid is happy in this house right now? You think she doesn't feel the anxiety and the, all of the turmoil that's going on between the two of you? She'd probably be happier if you do split up.
- [68:01]
B
And it, you know, it's funny because that still feels like a risky thing to say. It is something that for some reason still makes people feel uncomfortable. And yet so many people are dealing with this. And I really do. I, I think that there's a lot of people who stay in relationships because they feel this obligation and a lot of the time it has to do with the fact that they feel this extreme shame and guilt for breaking up a family because they assume that that means that the kid will have, have less love. But that's a choice and you can create a dynamic that allows that kid to have maximum amount of love. I mean, we are great co parents. These kids are consistently getting the best of us in a way that when we were together was not possible because we did not work together. But we work really well as separated co parents and I. So when I talk to people who are just in very unhappy situations and staying in it for the kids, I'm like, you're doing no one any favors.
- [69:04]
A
Something that you referenced about, you know, when if someone's saying something about you and you're like, oh, wait, that does kind of hit close to home, then it's going to affect you. And I can't help but think about Olivia Wilde as the public Persona.
- [69:18]
B
Right.
- [69:19]
A
And there is so much that is said about you at all times. And when I was preparing for this interview, I noticed that you had pulled back kind of from the public almost for the past four years. Like, you haven't done like long form interviews.
- [69:32]
B
Yeah.
- [69:33]
A
Since promoting your last movie that you directed. And I wanted to know, like, how did taking that step back feel? And was it intentional?
- [69:42]
B
Totally. Intentional. I feel like I felt like I needed to get quiet. I needed to hear myself again. I wish. There was so much noise, and it was a very unfamiliar thing to me to be thrust into such chaos. It was not my vibe. That was an unfamiliar thing for me. And I was suddenly in a tornado, and I needed to excuse myself from the tornado and just go and get quiet and hear myself and. And. And process. Process all of the. The. The pain and the lessons that I could find in it. I did a shit ton of therapy. I. I took it as an opportunity to rebuild myself at this point in my life. And I think there is value to that. There is. You know, it sounds like, dramatic, but say, like, you know, rock bottom is just a place to jump off from, and rock bottom just sounds very dramatic. And I think for me, it was like. It did feel like a destruction, but there is beauty in destruction because you can rebuild. And I needed to take a breather and just think, like, wait a minute, what have I learned? Who am I? And how can I. How can I accept this. This humbling as a chance to kind of spend the rest of my life as a person who has grown from this? Because I have to have grown from it, or else it was for nothing. And. And I'm a very different person than I was three years ago. I think a much better version of myself because I have just taken the time to process it.
- [71:30]
A
Well. And you went through a lot. Like, even hearing you say, like, rock bottom, I'm like, like, for sure we can't ever speak for you publicly or like, personally, but publicly, like, yo, it felt like rock bottom. Like, I remember when Don't Worry Darling came out and you were the most talked about woman in the world, Olivia Wilde. You. And it wasn't just for the, the movie.
- [71:52]
B
Oh, it was about.
- [71:53]
A
Yeah. It was your relationships, your parenting, your looks and. And overall really like your morality as a woman. Yeah. Now that you've had time, like, you're saying, like, you're a different person. Like, when you look back, like, what was that time? Like, when the world was just, like, bananas?
- [72:12]
B
It was. It was so strange. The world was also in a weird place because it was Covid. So, like, everything was topsy turvy weird. But. But I've never felt more disconnected from the person that people were talking about. Like, I was like, what. Who are they talking about? Who is that girl? It was, it was. It was also very strange to see complete fiction traded as fact. And I, I. It's really funny. I had an assistant at the time, who's one of my dear, dear friends. And she was like, man, working for me. Working for you has really, like, ruined the tabloids for me. Because now I know it's all fake, and I used to really love it, and now I'm like, but now I know it's not real because you would. There would be, like, fake sources, fake stories, fake. Because once there's a narrative formed, they are just trying to maintain that narrative. And it has nothing to do with the truth anymore. It is just clickbait that they have to maintain. And it doesn't matter what really happened at all at that point.
- [73:15]
A
The truth does. If anything, they're looking for the better story.
- [73:17]
B
Yeah. It's like. And you could be like, wait a minute. But there's. Here's this evidence to the contrary. They're like, excuse me, be quiet, because that does not fit what we've already decided. And I, I understood that. And I will say, like, that I had a really. There was all this public madness, but my private life was very far from it and very. Actually kind of like, wholesome and sweet. And I was, I had a really. I had. I had a lot of, like, real joy and love and happiness during that time. It was like. It was like the tornado was right outside the door, and if you were inside, you were like, it's so nice. And then you open the door, be like, it's like a fudgeing, like, cow, and a tractor would fly by.
- [74:04]
A
You know what makes I have so much empathy for you? Because not even, like, close to it, but, like, I've gone through an experience similar. Can you talk to me about the frustration, though, of seeing essentially a smear campaign being created and not like, you can't, you can't come out and, and dispel every single rumor because then you look like a fucking crazy lady.
- [74:27]
B
And it was so hard because I wanted to be like, can I just talk to people? Can I just go and say, like, that's not true. That's not true. And it was like, no, that won't help. And that was really hard. I just, I, I, I was also responsible for, you know, promoting a movie. I was responsible towards the movie. I was like, it's not about me. It's about this, this movie that everyone worked so hard to make. And I felt like I was working on behalf of hundreds of people who had worked through Covid to make something really difficult. And I felt frustrated that I couldn't defend myself. But it also felt like, okay, it's not about you. It's not about you. Just get the movie out. And the pummeling that I took was so insanely disproportionate. But I think the. The thing that I understand, like, tell me. You can get really angry. You can be. And I'm sure you have felt this. You're like, the frustration. You feel so angry thing is, like, I get it. Like, shit's hard. The world is insane. And the escapism of the tabloids is something that is, in a way, very soothing for people. It's understandable. And that's such a weird thing that we.
- [75:43]
A
We all are.
- [75:44]
B
Are capable of. So I felt this, like, understanding. I also felt like, oh, no wonder people are filling in the gaps with. With fiction, because they don't have all the information.
- [75:56]
A
No. And so then they're going to create stories. And it is fun to create crazy stories. It also, when you talk about the disproportionate aspect of this and kind of similar to what we've been talking about as women in this industry and everything we have to go through, your clothing even became a huge topic of conversation during this time. You were trying too hard.
- [76:18]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [76:19]
A
You were attempting to outshine the cast right then. You were showing too much skin. Right then. You were copying your boyfriend.
- [76:24]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [76:25]
A
And it was like, what do you think was underneath People's, like, drive and need to take a style choice and use it as an opportunity to essentially judge your entire being and character.
- [76:42]
B
I. I think that what happens is people become hypersensitive. They're looking for evidence to reinforce the narrative they've already created about you. So if they've decided, because the kind of tabloids have cast you in the soap opera of the tabloids as the villain, that's been determined. And so anything you do, it's like it'll reinforce that same thing. I mean, again, like, I don't. I don't blame people because I understand. I mean, I sort of. Yeah, I felt. I feel, like, hurt by it and confused, but. But I don't know it. In a way, it was almost like it wasn't me. It's like I could. I think that people just removed the human from it, and it was just like a thing. But I also think he had lack of information also. I, at the time, I think, didn't understand the value of vulnerability. I think I thought that put a fucking smile on and get out there and put on a beautiful dress and be Teflon and that that was the way to get through it. I Actually think there's value in being vulnerable and just being like, oh, ouch. I don't know. This fuck hurts. I don't. And I think that my own attempt to be strong and to kind of like, rise above it in a way, came off as inauthentic because people are like, you must be hurting. Why are you pretending to not be hurting? I think that feels inauthentic. And there's almost a sixth sense, like, uncanny valley thing where people are like, I sense. I sense that you're not showing us your pain, and therefore I don't cause you more pain.
- [78:27]
A
That's. You know, what's hard, too, is, like, the way that it's so piecemeal on the Internet and the tabloids. You're like, this is such the weirdest wrong story. And, like, that's not what's happening behind the scenes at all. But again, then you have understandably, PR people being like, shut your mouth and get on the carpet and don't do anything.
- [78:44]
B
Get out there.
- [78:45]
A
And it makes me think of. I had a conversation with Michelle Obama this past year, and she talked about how she put so much thought into every single outfit she wore every day, and she had to. And what would the message be and what. How would it, you know, come off? And her husband never even had to think about that. Men don't have to think about.
- [79:09]
B
And then his only scandal was that tan suit. Yeah, it's like, they don't have to think about it. And yet he did, because people were like, there's gotta be something we can say. And it's like, that suit. Unacceptable, Brock. But, like, unacceptable.
- [79:23]
A
And so I couldn't help but think, like, how much thought are you putting into your fashion choices for promoting your new film?
- [79:31]
B
Oh, funny. I mean, because this is a different vibe. I think that there. I think that I am at this place where I. I rather. I think when you go through something like that, you can choose to say, like, I'm never letting anyone in ever again. I am a lockbox, and you can't come near me. Or you can choose a path that is more vulnerable but is more authentic. And I think that I, as I've gotten older, have become more and more myself. There's a Miles Davis quote that's like, it takes you a long time to. To sound like yourself. And I think that it is clear to me that I am way more comfortable with myself now than I was before all that happened. So, again, that, like, the. The kind of destruction that it felt like, allowed for the rebuilding, but it was. It was fucking insane. Alex, I can't even describe to you, like, when it got. When it got. I remember when we got to the point of, like, Spitgate, we were like,
- [80:38]
A
okay, oh, my God, I forgot about that.
- [80:41]
B
Do you remember that?
- [80:41]
A
Wait, wasn't it like you. They thought that you spit on someone.
- [80:45]
B
They thought that Harry spat on Chris Pine. And it really looked like it. It was really funny. We were all. We like, did the Venice Film Festival. We're like, that was fun. And we. We flew home and we. We got to New York and then it was like, you guys did. Did Harry. Did you spit on Chris? And. And we were like, what? And they're like, look at this video. It really. And we looked and we're like, okay, fair enough.
- [81:10]
A
That look kind of Loki looked like it.
- [81:11]
B
It was like this weird optical illusion. But the fact that then it turned into this massive thing. I was like, okay, we've tilted into a world of, like, insane, complete, surreal, slow mo video.
- [81:24]
A
Yeah, the analyzing.
- [81:27]
B
I was. It was like, yeah, it was like
- [81:31]
A
the biggest thing in the world.
- [81:31]
B
It was the biggest. And again, it must have been that, like, America was trying to avoid its own pain because, wait, that must have been an escape. But it was crazy. Like, the funny thing. The funny thing about all of that was that I continued to try to tell myself throughout all the things, like the movie. And then after the movie, like, it's okay. Like, you're probably just the only one noticing these things. Like my cadaver Gollum photograph. You're the only one who noticed. And I'm sure no one else saw. And then being like, oops, Like, I will never forget, I. One of the most fucked up things that I went through, among so many, was that I was served papers on stage. And I'll just say that now, with enough space behind it, the part that I can laugh at is that obviously it was incredibly traumatizing. There's so many elements to that, but I get through it. Because weirdly, as women, we're taught to muscle through the most insane experiences. I was like, just finish your speech. Got through, went backstage completely like. Like, dissolved into a puddle. But then I thought was like. I was like, no one saw it because there's no phones allowed in this event. And so that is, no one saw it. Oh, what's that? It's already up on page six. There's a video. Okay, well, no one's gonna look because, like, no one's paying attention. And then I remember, like, a couple months later, I had the chance. I Met Tom Cruise and he was like, hi, I'm Tom. Fucked up what happened to you in Vegas? And I was like, no, you're like.
- [83:02]
A
I convinced myself, Tom, that no one knew. Why are you talking, Olivia? No, you've had like a crazy bro that, that moment. Did you ever get clarity on like if it was purposeful or not? No. Okay.
- [83:20]
B
I had basically. I, I know Jason has, has, has told me that he did not know. And I need to believe that in order to continue. And you know, I, I think that lawyers can be super fucked up and do fucked up things and I'm aware of that. And, and all of it is, is, is, you know, but I think that people are never their best selves when they're engaging in that kind of process. And it was, it was so fucked up in so many ways. I don't think I know that whether or not he knew it was gonna happen, I know it really hurt him to see it happening to me. Like, I think it was undeniable that it was like a fucked up thing. And I know he felt very, very bad that it happened to me. It was a moment that I ended up doing a lot of therapy about still kind of do. There's the feeling of being on stage, you know, like, that is a vulnerable feeling. Also, that room was, couldn't have been higher stress. The people in that room at Cinemacon are all the, they're all the most. It's all the studio people, so it's all the people you were trying to like, impress the most with your work and all the exhibitors, the people at the movie theaters, the people you need to sell your movies and all the press. And it was like, I cannot fucking believe this is happening to me here. And yet, you know, the crazy thing is like, once you make it through things like that, you kind of feel like you can make it through any.
- [84:58]
A
I would assume because these are, these are. We're at, we're peak, babe. Like, we. It couldn't get crazier. And I, I have so much respect for you in that moment. I think everyone in the world did. And I can't help but think too, of like you're navigating like, you know, the dissolution of a public relationship. You're in a now public relationship at the time. And I remember some of the headlines saying, moving on too quickly. She's abandoning her family and her children, like, bad.
- [85:30]
B
That hurt.
- [85:31]
A
How did you feel about being like, how much women are judged again, disproportionately than the men in those situations when you were reading those headlines.
- [85:42]
B
I remember there was a. It was Thanksgiving, and we were separated, and I was with the kids because it was my time to be with the kids. Everything was as it should be. Kids were with me. And Jason was photographed with his girlfriend on the beach in, like, Costa Rica or something. And the press were like, yay for him. Like, he looks so happy, so wonderful. And I was like, if I was away from my children on a national holiday while walking on a beach, it'd be like, literally, just burn her at the stake now.
- [86:19]
A
No, take her out.
- [86:20]
B
Take the kids away from her forever and burn her to the ground.
- [86:22]
A
She should lose custody.
- [86:23]
B
She should. It would have been used in the court of law. It was crazy that, you know, he wasn't doing anything wrong. I knew where he was. He knew where we did. Everything was as we. It was my week with the kids, but I was like, what the. And then I would. On my weeks when I wasn't, and I would be, you know, somewhere. People be like, well, my, My, my.
- [86:45]
A
She forgot her kids.
- [86:46]
B
Oh, she forgot her kids. I guess she forgot she's a mom.
- [86:49]
A
The double standard.
- [86:50]
B
It was nuts. But, you know, there was never any public understanding, of course, because they're not a part of our private lives, but of that breakup, like, it's no surprise to me that I ended up making a movie about relationships and. And the complexity of determining whether a relationship is over because it is not an overnight process. It's very difficult. And the idea that relationships can come to a place where you become strangers. Like, I mean, I remember the date because it was my birthday, but this is March 2020. March 10th. And Jason and I had been having a rough time for a while. We had a real bumpy, bumpy ride. And we were driving home from my birthday party my friends had had, and I said, did you give me a birthday present? And he said, what would I get you, Olivia? I don't know you. And he wasn't wrong. We didn't know each other anymore. And this is the thing that made me want to make this movie because. Or one of the things, because you can get to a place in a relationship where you stop. Stop engaging in the knowing of each other, in the curiosity about each other, and you find yourself in a place where you're like, I don't even know you. And that was a point. That was when we realized it was over. And it was fucking tough. And. And. And it brought us to the place of like, okay, this is done. We're gonna end this. And Then literally two days later was lockdown. Covid.
- [88:36]
A
You're like, oh.
- [88:37]
B
And then we, you know, I'm sure there were a lot of couples. I wonder. It would be really funny to have a convention of like, everybody who broke up the day before lockdown and then had to live and then be like, we are now co parenting in the same house and obviously trying to make it work and trying to put it back together because you want to always put it back together for your kids until you realize, like, this isn't helping anybody.
- [89:01]
A
That is so insightful because when I was watching this movie, I was blown away by how you were able to so eloquently slow roll for us, essentially the way that a marriage can become so frictionful but so subtle. Because even the banter that you provided us and the brilliant dialogue, it's funny. And I have no couples like that where, like, it's entertaining. Oh, but that was how we were mean.
- [89:42]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that you. It's when you're still. There's so many couples who are like, bickering in a way, that becomes kind of a little comedy act. Yes. But there's contempt underneath. And we all know contempt is the end. And it is this kind of poking and scraping, but you can go a long time with that. And it takes somebody stopping engaging in that to have the real conversation. And you're right. This movie is about Seth Rogen and my character are engaged in this kind of passive aggressive, non communication, constant bickering, constant talking over each other, and just little digs. Dig, dig, dig, dig, dig. And yet. And they are living in the same space, and yet they are miles apart. They don't know each other at all.
- [90:36]
A
At all. And what I love so much is you exploring. What Esther always talks about was like that need and want for desire. The moment I remember, you put on the shirt and he's like, is that a new shirt? You're in the middle of fighting. He's like, is that a new shirt? And you're like, yeah, it's a new shirt. And he's like, it looks really nice on you. And you're like, well, you could tell me that more often. And he's like, I just told you. And it's so real where, like, you're not feeling seen. Yeah, he's seeing you in that moment, but you're then, like, equating it to the larger understanding, but you never see me. And he's like, I'm just fucking seeing you right now. And it's like that's so real, so real, so real.
- [91:10]
B
So once we, it's kind of like what we were just saying about how like the public, once they assign this identity to you, then they just confirm it. Everything's confirmation bias. I think in a relationship that can happen too, where you've decided like you're an and you don't listen to me. And then if they're listening to you, you're like, oh really, you're listening to me right now?
- [91:26]
A
You're now listening.
- [91:27]
B
Why? This just draws attention to when you don't listen and it's like, okay, but at what point are you gonna allow for change? And I think people often don't allow for change until something calamitous happens. Until there's like somebody cheats or something falls through and then, then people allow for change.
- [92:01]
A
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- [94:04]
B
Oh, man, I don't know. It really did upset people, though.
- [94:09]
A
The resentment, the suspicion of you.
- [94:12]
B
Like, yeah, yeah, it, it was crazy. I don't know how much I understand it yet. That's one of the factors that I never really felt like I fully. I, I don't know. I mean, I know it, I know that it has existed for a long time in our society. Like, I understand it had very little to do with me. It is something that we have, we've done this to women for a long time. Why is it? I don't know. People were fucking pissed. I think that I, I, I think that it, it also had a lot to do with the kind of parasocial relationship people had with, have with him, which is a burden that is very weighty and not something I envy. And he, he carries it with grace. I, I think that is an enormous, enormous responsibility that all those, like, stars have to carry. And it's fucking impossible. I don't know. It, it's wild. Cause, I mean, we had the loveliest relationship, like, so, so sweet and so beautiful and, like, really actually very, like, domestic and kind and lovely and, like, I think that we existed in this, like, little bubble and the judgment never really, like, got into that bubble, which was a miracle and real testament to, like, to us, like, making that happen. I think that people were mad. They were, they were just. It's almost like the, the happiness made them mad. Like, I would, like, go to his shows and dance, and people were like, oh, good G, you slut.
- [96:07]
A
You're like, how dare you dance and smile.
- [96:11]
B
But, you know, like, oh, God, yeah, that, that is, is why. What do you think?
- [96:16]
A
Why do you. I, I think it's almost similar to what you. And that's why I was so fascinated to ask you, because I do think this is such an important conversation to have. I think that it's similar to Thanksgiving that you just talked about.
- [96:29]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [96:29]
A
I think that it's. We police women's morality to such a different degree than men that, and especially mothers. The fact that you have kids, you're oh, yeah. So you're presenting in a way that when you do go through a separation and then you are dating someone who is, you know, by the way, Jason
- [96:48]
B
was dating someone, right? I think even younger. I think his.
- [96:51]
A
No, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I think that there is a expectation, especially as a mother.
- [96:57]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [96:58]
A
That when you go through that public separation with the kids involved, you are supposed to be self sacrificing to a convent and you need to be sexless.
- [97:06]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny, I think it even happens before separation. I think in the. Estare writes about this a lot. But like in this country, motherhood, motherhood means no more sexual being for you, young lady. You. That part of you is over now. And there is this puritanical basis to that which is like, you are no longer capable of desire. You don't deserve it, you have served your purpose. And now if I see you without your baby and you are like, like enjoying yourself as an individual woman, I see that as a betrayal of this covenant. And it, you know, Esther writes that like in France, when you see a baby, when people see babies, they think about sex because they're like, that baby came from sex, so that couple must fuck. When we in America see a baby, we're like, they're not fucking, they're not fucking. And it's like, because she's done. And if we see a man alone with a baby, we think that's hot. We are attracted to that man. He, it suggests like, he is a. He's a daddy.
- [98:13]
A
He's capable, he's capable.
- [98:15]
B
When we see a woman with a baby, it's not like, oh, yeah, sexy. Look at that. Look what she can do.
- [98:20]
A
She's done, she's done.
- [98:22]
B
And I know you're already facing this and it is something that is, it's wild because what you've done to remove shame from the conversation around sexuality in women is, is fucking revolutionary. It is, it's essential.
- [98:40]
A
But it's crazy, Olivia, because the way that they're like this slut.
- [98:45]
B
Oh yeah.
- [98:46]
A
Is now having a baby. She's the biggest fucking hypocrite on the planet.
- [98:50]
B
How babies are made. And it's so healthy.
- [98:52]
A
We can have both.
- [98:52]
B
Example of both. And that after you pop this baby out, you will continue to be a fully realized sexual human being. And that, that's good. And it's like a very healthy thing. And that if you in your relationship were to you lose that, that wouldn't make you happy. And it would be unnecessary. And I think that you're right. Once there's separation involved, then it's another level. Now it is like, you go sit in the corner, young lady, old lady, and you hold lady, old lady, and you think about what you've done. And the only time you're allowed out is if you are, like, holding a child or else, like, we don't want to.
- [99:30]
A
We don't want to see you. Can you talk to me about sex in this movie? Because it. There was so much to it. There was so much explored. Like, you talked about the. You know, you in your dynamic with Seth Rogen and you guys, as, you know, actors not having sex in your dynamic and realizing you hadn't had sex in almost a year. The other couple looking at you guys like, what the is wrong with you? Like, talk to me about sex.
- [99:52]
B
Yeah, it. One of my favorite parts of the movie is this argument we have about why we don't have sex. And I. I love this one moment where it's set as Joe says, we don't have sex because you won't have sex with me. You're supposed to be attracted to me. You're supposed to want me. You're my wife. And that line, it. I remember when he said it, and you can see on camera, you can see, like, veins popping out of my neck. Because I was like, no, because it felt like it was like, this is the core of what is wrong with the. The society and how. What we're expected to do as partners and as wives and. And husbands. It's like, you are supposed to want me forever without any participation in that, without earning it. And I think that we don't talk about sex with the person we're in a relationship with. Esther. And we then just decide that we deserve it, and it's their fault if we're not getting it, Even though we're not typically communicating about what we want and what we need. But the other thing is, like. And Seth and I felt very passionate about this when we were making the movie. We were like, we feel very strongly that sex is important in a relationship and that people who don't have sex and say, well, we don't have sex, but we have, like, a really healthy relationship. I call bullshit on it. And I understand that some people might disagree. But the thing is, the value of nonverbal communication and the practice of the kind of trust and curiosity involved in intimacy, that is a big part of a relationship. And I think if you have. Have ceased to engage in that, you have to pay attention. It's not. I'm not saying, like, if you don't 11 times a month, you're a bad marriage. It's not that it's like, like the old, like, Cosmo quizzes or whatever it is. It's just that you have to look at it. You have to look at, like, why aren't you able to non verbally communicate in this very vulnerable way? Is it because there's a deeper conversation that needs. Needs to take place?
- [102:14]
A
And the way that you explored a lot of these topics from the female perspective when you guys brought up menopause? And Penelope's like, let me. Let me equate menopause to you. And you're like, crushing your balls pulling that. And Seth Rogen is really like, I'm so.
- [102:33]
B
That was all Penelope and Rashida. They felt very passionate about making sure that was in there. And I was like, yeah, let's.
- [102:39]
A
I loved it.
- [102:40]
B
Talk about perimenopause. I learned so much from the process of all of us putting that together, because I was like, I had never heard of a lot of this. I hadn't heard of Frozen Shoulder. I hadn't heard of all these things. And I was sitting there like a student being like, what's gonna happen? Why don't we talk about this? And we're hearing it more and people are really starting to bring it into the discourse. And that's awesome. But I think that that is one example of the kind of conversations that people are just not having, and particularly with their partners. Because it also feels like. I think that topic specifically feels like an acknowledgment of aging in a way that feels scary because then it's like, will you not want me anymore? Blah, blah, blah.
- [103:26]
A
No, it's so true. It's so true. I cannot wait for people to see this movie. I think that again, I had no idea what to expect. And I am so excited to also see the difference in reaction between men and women.
- [103:40]
B
I was gonna say, I thought about this morning.
- [103:42]
A
No. And I called him this morning and I was like, oh, my God, you have to watch this. And he was like, is it like a thriller? Like, I. The trailer. I don't understand what. And I'm like, I don't want to tell you much, but it starts. And. And you just get so entranced in this entire dynamic. And I want to hear your perspective on. Because Matt is someone who's in therapy. His mom's a therapist. Like, he is into this type of shit. But I cannot wait to see Men versus women and how they feel about it.
- [104:10]
B
Also, there is an ambiguous ending to it.
- [104:14]
A
Ambiguous. I was like, what the fuck?
- [104:16]
B
At the end of every screening, I've been doing a poll and I have said, do you think these people stay together or not?
- [104:25]
A
Oh, my God. And I'll tell you off camera what my thoughts.
- [104:29]
B
It's really interesting because. Because I will say women tend to believe that they don't. And it is interesting to me because I think it's brought me to this realization that when women are done with a relationship, they're done. They're done. Women don't really come back. A guy sometimes comes back. Women. By the time we decide to go, we've thought about it. We have. We have reviewed it with our committee, and we have internally, the committee's like,
- [105:04]
A
this is how we'll leave. We got the bags. On this day, when men do it, it's like, I think I want to. I think I want to end it. I don't want to.
- [105:11]
B
Never mind. I didn't mean to say that.
- [105:13]
A
All right, we'll stay.
- [105:14]
B
And so I. I'm fascinated by the response that the audience has been having, but also my. My interpretation of it is changing based on, like, how romantic I'm feeling on any said day. I'm like, I don't know. And I can't believe you're so.
- [105:28]
A
You're a real big romantic.
- [105:29]
B
I am.
- [105:30]
A
Olivia. Wild.
- [105:31]
B
It would just make any sense considering everything we've just covered. Like, I love it. That's the thing. The. The like, if you can. If you can grow older and stay hopeful in every way about everything, then you've really won, right? Like, you've. You've managed to defeat the, like, pitfalls that allow you to just, like, become pessimistic about everything. And I think that, like, romance, I'm. I'm still a sucker for it. I. I think that I've learned to be alone, which is amazing and which has made me capable of relationships. But, like, I tell everybody, and I. I know the Daddy gang knows this because you've said it in different ways, but, like, spend some time. Spend some time alone. Be single. Be. Figure out who you are as a whole being. And then you might be ready to be in a relationship, but until you do that, you just don't know.
- [106:32]
A
You don't know. And then you could potentially be someone who settles. Yes, we don't want to settle.
- [106:37]
B
No, there's no need.
- [106:39]
A
I could talk to you for so many more hours. I had so much excitement coming into this I literally had been talking to my mom, my sister, my friends about this when we booked this. I was like, I have so much respect for you, and I feel very in sympatico with you in a lot of ways of, like, being a very confident, strong woman. And I say that, and I know people can roll their eyes because it's like, don't have too much confidence, but it's like, I feel that in you, and I feel that within myself. And when you're unapologetic, like, it can really rub people the wrong way.
- [107:11]
B
Yes.
- [107:12]
A
And I have so much respect for the way that you have navigated the public and. And just everything you've done because you're so bright and intelligent and smart, and it shows in this movie and all the other things that you've done. And so to not give credit to that first and be like, but I think she's a. And it's like, I don't give a if she's a. She's talented and she's intelligent, and guess what? She's actually also not. Not a bitch.
- [107:39]
B
Well, the thing. I'm so glad. The thing that. The thing that I have learned, and I actually did, I. I learned this from. This sounds so crazy, but after I saw the documentary about Pamela Anderson, I reached out to her and I was like, yo, respect. Just want to say, big fan. Respect. And she was aware of some of the shit that I was going through, and she wrote to me and she said, the most rebellious thing you can do is stay soft. Don't let it harden you. And I think that connects to what I was saying before about, like, being staying vulnerable. And. And I want to tell you, because you are only going to get more and more powerful and successful, and you're going to continue this work, which is so essential. As I was saying, like, don't. Don't let them fuck with you. But the unapologetic thing, you can misunderstand to mean invulnerable. And I think, like, staying soft and vulnerable and being comfortable saying, like, you guys, it's. That fucking hurts. And that's not real and it's not true. And, like, don't feel like you have to stay so strong for us. We know you're strong. It's okay to be soft if you need to.
- [108:55]
A
My pregnancy hormones. I'm like, thank you so much for coming on caller, Daddy. This was beyond, beyond an honor. Seriously. Love you.
- [109:04]
B
Thank you. I love you. Call her.
- [109:22]
A
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- [112:15]
B
Oh.
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A
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