Podcast Summary: "Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Call Her Daddy
• Host: Alex Cooper
• Guest: Penn Badgley
• Episode Title: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
• Release Date: April 23, 2025

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Call Her Daddy, host Alex Cooper sits down with renowned actor Penn Badgley to delve deep into his multifaceted career, personal life, and the psychological complexities of his most iconic characters: Dan Humphrey from Gossip Girl and Joe Goldberg from You. The conversation spans Penn's early beginnings in acting, his experiences navigating fame, fatherhood, and his perspectives on modern relationships and masculinity.

Early Life and Acting Career [02:03 - 07:16]

Penn Badgley opens up about his formative years, revealing that his passion for acting began at the tender age of 12 when he moved to Los Angeles. This significant relocation was amidst his parents' deteriorating marriage, a period marked by isolation and personal loss—the death of his pet cat shortly after the move ([08:13] Penn Badgley).

Penn Badgley [08:13]: "Birth is just, it's like, it's in my. You know what I mean? So actually when we thought we were just going to have one and we were close to being like, no, we're good... It felt like a known quantity."

The early onset of his acting career instilled a sense of responsibility and independence, making him financially independent by the age of 15. Penn reflects on the challenges of growing up in a single-parent household and how these experiences shaped his self-image and career trajectory.

Relationship with Parents and Fatherhood [07:16 - 20:24]

Penn delves into his complex relationship with his parents, particularly highlighting the void he felt from his father post-divorce. Moving to Issaquah, Washington, and experiencing his parents' separation left him emotionally distant and self-conscious during his adolescence.

Penn Badgley [09:13]: "We lived in isolation... It was like all it is is, you're constantly being brought in touch with... that was all it is."

Transitioning into fatherhood, Penn shares profound insights about his approach to parenting. He emphasizes the importance of active listening and the simple yet powerful act of saying "I'm sorry." These practices mark a deliberate departure from traditional paternal stereotypes, aiming to foster a more empathetic and understanding environment for his children.

Penn Badgley [05:14]: "What comes to mind is listening and then saying, 'I'm sorry.' Those are two things that I think fathers are not..."

He recounts a pivotal moment when he apologized to his young son during a car seat struggle, underscoring his commitment to modeling positive behaviors and breaking generational cycles of emotional unavailability.

Penn Badgley [19:12]: "I was speaking in a way that I'd never spoken to before... I said, 'I'm sorry, I'm being really impatient with you.' And he just went, 'Yeah.'"

Role in Gossip Girl and Character Analysis [20:24 - 42:49]

Penn discusses his tenure on Gossip Girl, portraying Dan Humphrey—an "awkward, nice guy" who contrasts with the more flamboyant characters of the show. He reflects on almost turning down the role due to his disillusionment with Hollywood at the age of 20, expressing concerns about typecasting and the lengthy commitments required by television contracts.

Penn Badgley [27:16]: "It's not just a meritocracy. I don't know what industry would be."

Despite initial reservations, Penn accepted the role, recognizing the opportunity to explore complex character traits and the depth that Dan Humphrey allowed him as an actor. He touches upon the challenges of balancing his personal identity with his on-screen persona, especially as fans often conflate the actor with the character.

Penn Badgley [35:24]: "I can see positives from that. So let's pay a little bit of respect to Dan."

Personal Relationships and Modern Dating Views [42:49 - 61:33]

Shifting focus to his personal life, Penn candidly discusses his views on modern dating and relationships. He expresses skepticism about the concept of "casual dating," questioning its authenticity and the superficiality he perceives in contemporary romantic interactions.

Penn Badgley [60:22]: "Show me anyone who's able to have it. Truly."

Penn advocates for deeper emotional connections, highlighting his own journey through meaningful relationships, including his marriage. He underscores the importance of breaking away from toxic masculinity norms and fostering genuine intimacy built on mutual respect and understanding.

Penn Badgley [61:33]: "You have to always be learning new levels of listening because... that's another level of listening."

Insights on Toxic Masculinity [61:33 - 68:47]

The conversation delves into the pervasive issue of toxic masculinity, with Penn articulating his commitment to redefining traditional male roles. He emphasizes vulnerability, empathy, and active participation in parenting as essential components of his approach to fatherhood and personal growth.

Penn Badgley [66:07]: "It's a lot... but it's really beautiful and rewarding."

Penn also touches upon the societal pressures that compel men to conform to outdated behavioral norms, advocating instead for a more emotionally intelligent and nurturing form of masculinity.

Character Analysis: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg [68:47 - 76:24]

In the latter part of the episode, the focus shifts to the stark contrast between Dan Humphrey and Joe Goldberg, two of Penn's most iconic characters. While Dan embodies the archetype of the misunderstood, earnest protagonist, Joe represents the dark, obsessive antagonist.

Penn reflects on the psychological dimensions of portraying such divergent roles, discussing the emotional and physical demands of embodying characters with vastly different moral compasses.

Penn Badgley [71:31]: "So, so actually I would say in some ways it's quite fun. There's levels to it, day to day basis, kind of fun, kind of taxing."

He elaborates on the complexities of acting as someone like Joe Goldberg, navigating the fine line between character immersion and personal well-being. The discussion underscores the transformative power of acting while also highlighting the importance of maintaining one's identity outside of the roles portrayed.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts [76:24]

As the episode wraps up, Penn reflects on his journey, offering heartfelt advice to his younger self and listeners. He emphasizes the importance of emotional resilience, continual self-improvement, and the pursuit of authentic connections over societal expectations.

Penn Badgley [74:24]: "I would want to give him a really long hug... I would want to be the man, the male figure, the role model in his life that he somehow did not seem to have."

The episode concludes with Penn expressing gratitude for the opportunity to share his experiences and insights, leaving listeners with a profound understanding of the man behind the characters.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Penn Badgley [05:14]: "What comes to mind is listening and then saying, 'I'm sorry.' Those are two things that I think fathers are not..."

• Penn Badgley [19:12]: "I was speaking in a way that I'd never spoken to before... I said, 'I'm sorry, I'm being really impatient with you.' And he just went, 'Yeah.'"

• Penn Badgley [27:16]: "It's not just a meritocracy. I don't know what industry would be."

• Penn Badgley [35:24]: "I can see positives from that. So let's pay a little bit of respect to Dan."

• Penn Badgley [60:22]: "Show me anyone who's able to have it. Truly."

• Penn Badgley [61:33]: "You have to always be learning new levels of listening because... that's another level of listening."

• Penn Badgley [66:07]: "It's a lot... but it's really beautiful and rewarding."

• Penn Badgley [71:31]: "So, so actually I would say in some ways it's quite fun. There's levels to it, day to day basis, kind of fun, kind of taxing."

• Penn Badgley [74:24]: "I would want to give him a really long hug... I would want to be the man, the male figure, the role model in his life that he somehow did not seem to have."

Key Takeaways

1. Early Challenges Shaped Penn's Resilience: Moving to LA at a young age amidst familial turmoil instilled a strong sense of independence and shaped his commitment to his craft.

2. Parenting with Empathy: Penn prioritizes active listening and genuine apologies in his role as a father, striving to break away from traditional paternal norms.

3. Navigating Fame and Identity: His role as Dan Humphrey brought both opportunities and challenges, particularly in maintaining his personal identity separate from his on-screen persona.

4. Redefining Masculinity: Penn advocates for emotional intelligence and vulnerability in men, rejecting toxic masculinity in favor of more nurturing and empathetic behaviors.

5. Complex Character Portrayals: Playing both Dan Humphrey and Joe Goldberg showcases Penn's versatility as an actor, highlighting his ability to navigate deeply contrasting character traits.

6. Insights on Modern Relationships: His skepticism towards casual dating emphasizes the value of deep, meaningful connections over superficial romantic interactions.

Conclusion

Penn Badgley's candid and introspective conversation with Alex Cooper offers listeners a profound glimpse into the interplay between personal experiences and professional roles. From overcoming early life challenges to redefining fatherhood and masculinity, Penn's insights resonate deeply, providing valuable lessons on emotional resilience, authenticity, and the pursuit of meaningful relationships.