Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (2:11)

Especially when I'm shooting Call Her Daddy episodes outside of the studio and I'm like oh my God I forgot this one makeup thing.

Alex Cooper (2:16)

No, no, totally fine.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (2:17)

Uber Eats Sephora.

Alex Cooper (2:18)

We're good to go. There are so many moving parts when we're on location also.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (2:21)

And sometimes it gets super hectic and I'll forget my favorite lip liner and then everyone's like, just use this one. And I'm like, I won't look the way I want to look. I need that exact lip liner and only Sephora has it.

Alex Cooper (2:32)

So basically, instead of running around or

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (2:34)

settling on whatever left in my bag

Alex Cooper (2:35)

or borrowing from someone, I can just open Uber Eats and get exactly what

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (2:39)

I need right when I need it.

Alex Cooper (2:41)

Order Sephora on Uber Eats today and get your glam delivered straight to your door. Check app for availability. Delivery fees may apply.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (2:51)

What is up, Daddy gang?

Alex Cooper (2:53)

It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (3:00)

Sarah J. Maas. Welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Sarah J. Maas (3:02)

Hello. Thank you. So excited to be here.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (3:04)

This is like, I have never had more people asking me, okay, so, like, if I buy my own plane ticket, could I just fly in, like, sit in the corner and just, like, maybe meet her? And I'm like, stop it, guys. No. Never had more people.

Sarah J. Maas (3:19)

Same. Same with you. My friends who, like, don't give a shit, like, what I do for a living, suddenly they hear I'm coming here and they're like, oh, like, I could be your assistant for the day. And, like, have I told you how much I love you? And I'm like, I wish you guys could come, but at the same time,

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (3:36)

no, no, we're like, merging our.

Sarah J. Maas (3:39)

You've made. You've made me cool. To my friends who usually only see me in my, like, ugly casual clothes. That's. That's our dress code. Ugly casual.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (3:47)

I am honored that you're here. I also want to give everyone watching the. I just want to say spoilers could happen in this episode if you haven't read all of the series. So I would just. Beware. Don't come for me on social media if we talk about things that you're like. What do you mean? Like, just prepare yourself.

Sarah J. Maas (4:06)

You guys have had plenty of time to read. Plenty of time.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (4:09)

Very true. Okay. You are the best selling author of Throne of Glass, Crescent City and the ACOTAR series. You have broken publishing records. You have sold over 6,75 million copies of your books. And I am such a huge fan and I'm so excited to sit down with you today.

Sarah J. Maas (4:28)

Thank you.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (4:28)

Welcome to Los Angeles.

Sarah J. Maas (4:30)

Thank you.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (4:31)

What are you in LA for?

Sarah J. Maas (4:32)

I'm only here to be with you. You're the only reason that I would actually come to Los Angeles.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (4:38)

Do you come here often? You're like, no, no, we don't like L. A?

Sarah J. Maas (4:41)

Well, you know, we used to live here, so of course, like, I don't like, I like L. A. But, like, I mean, you're just here for this or. I'm here just for you. I'm just for you, Alex.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (4:49)

I am honor.

Sarah J. Maas (4:50)

Only for you would I drag myself across the continent to Los Angeles.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (4:55)

Thank you. Okay, if you are on a plane, can you ever work on a draft or. It's like, way too risky.

Sarah J. Maas (5:02)

I'm on deadline right now actually working on something. Okay. But I had to work. I had to work. And then the worst thing was is that, like, my husband, who was supposed to be helping with the kids, just takes a nap.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (5:14)

So you're writing and you're holding children,

Sarah J. Maas (5:16)

and the kids are like, mommy, like, can you get me a new sparkling water? Like, mommy, my iPad turned off. And like, Josh is just there, like, snoring. The dog's like, sleeping next to him. And I'm like, what? What is this? What? I was about to throw a bucket of water.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (5:30)

You're like, this is why my fans are mad at me. Guys, I need to lock in. Yes.

Sarah J. Maas (5:35)

Yes. I was like, there is like, we need to, like, get together. There's no time for naps, for spouse naps anymore. Yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (5:41)

I feel like you're also known for your writing playlists. What have you been currently listening to for inspiration?

Sarah J. Maas (5:49)

Weirdly, like, weirdly enough, like, I heard the soundtrack to that. The Rob Pattinson, like, the Batman thing. And like, there was like certain, like, pieces in that that just, like, spoke to me and like. Yeah, so that was like, kind of like the current thing. But then, like, I mean, it's not really, like, inspiration, but like K pop demon hunters. I'm still playing that non stop in my house. And like, even my 7 year old son has been like, okay, like, we're kind of over that. And I'm like, we are never over this movie. We are never over the soundtrack.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (6:18)

That's when you know you've lost it. Where your kids are like, can we stop, mom?

Sarah J. Maas (6:20)

And you're like, no, I'm like, pre gaming in the shower, like, listening to

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (6:25)

the golden, like, babe. Yeah, we need to calm down.

Sarah J. Maas (6:28)

Yes. No, like, like, I bought the vinyl record.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (6:31)

Oh, you're in it, Sarah.

Sarah J. Maas (6:33)

Yeah. And I play it when my kids are at school. I put it on and I play it on repeat to the point where my housekeeper thinks I'm having, like, a mental breakdown.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (6:40)

Yeah. And the kids aren't there, so you really know you're in love.

Sarah J. Maas (6:44)

Like, it's it's my jam.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (6:46)

Okay, can you tell us, like, what is your ideal writing setup?

Sarah J. Maas (6:52)

I'm not, like, a fancy writer. Like, I. I don't write publicly. Like, I don't want to be in a cafe because, like, I. I, like, get very into my stuff. So, like, I'll be crying, like, to feel what my characters feel, like I have to, like, emotionally connect with them. So if it's like, a devastating scene or just, like, a very emotional scene, like, I will be so.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (7:11)

Sobbing. Oh, my God.

Sarah J. Maas (7:13)

Yeah. Like, my husband has, like, walked in to, like, my bedroom, where I actually write in my bedroom, and he's, like, seen me just, like, weeping, and he just, like, quietly closes the door. He's like, yeah, we're.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (7:22)

We're not like a normal husband. Be like, babe, are you okay? And he's like, got it. We're on.

Sarah J. Maas (7:26)

He hears me, like, blasting, like, my, like, you know, classical music movie scores, and I'm weeping, sobbing, like, typing as fast as I can, and he's like, okay, yeah, yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (7:34)

So the bedroom.

Sarah J. Maas (7:34)

Yeah. So, like, I just have a desk in my bedroom. Like, I don't know. Like, they say don't work in your, like, where you sleep, but, like, I don't know. It's like a cozy, happy space for me. Like, when I'm in an office, I'm just. I'm kind of like. I don't know. It's not, like, my vibe.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (7:48)

Yeah.

Sarah J. Maas (7:48)

Like, it used. I used to want to have, like, my own office, but now I just, like. I like to have my own little, like, tiny, cozy space. And, like, I keep a very tidy desk, but it's, like, covered with, like, crystals and, like, ridiculous things, like Labu Boo. I have a Labubu sitting in, like, a little, like, sun chair with, like, sunglasses on. Like, he's. It's. It's.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (8:09)

It's good vibes.

Sarah J. Maas (8:09)

It's. It is. It is good. I like. I only things that bring me joy. That's what I put on my desk. But I keep it very tidy. But then, of course, I have, like, three coasters on my desk for, like, one for water, one for, like, a latte, and one for a Diet Coke. And they always need to be, like, constantly filled.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (8:24)

That's the reason.

Sarah J. Maas (8:25)

And then, like, space for Cheetos, which is the worst possible food to eat when you write, you're like, I know. Are you like a I'm puffy or a crunchy?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (8:34)

I'm the flaming hot.

Sarah J. Maas (8:37)

I've never had one. I'm like, I've never had one.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (8:39)

I'm scared. I'm scary. That I'm like, I. Like. My husband's always like, why? And I'm like, I like it to burn.

Sarah J. Maas (8:45)

Do you like spicy things? In general, I do. Okay. But I've never had one. Now I kind of want to try one.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (8:49)

To try one, you need to ask, tell me what it was like, but,

Sarah J. Maas (8:52)

like, is it, like.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (8:53)

It's a little painful, but, like, I like selling this, but it's, like, good. Like, I like the burn. Like, it keeps. I. When I'm editing my show, I'm, like, eating them, and I love the little thin ones. And I just, like, kind of take it and I'm editing. It's a vibe. I also was curious, like, when. If you do go out in public and you do ever see fans, like, what is the most common thing that people ask you when they run into you?

Sarah J. Maas (9:19)

People usually don't, like, ask me things. It's more like they just want to express, like, what the books have meant to them. So usually that makes me cry. But I'm also, like, such a nerd where, like, if I see someone in public reading my books, like, I go up and say hi to them because, like, I want to say thank. I want to say thank you to them because, like, all these beautiful, like, blessings I have in my life, the fact that I can, like, do this for a living is because of people reading. So, like, how can I not at least just, like, go up and be like, I just want to say, like, thank you. But then, like, when I do that, like, they. I think they don't believe me initially because, again, normal Sarah covered in Cheeto dust. Like, I look, like, unwell on a daily basis. So they're like, I don't think that's actually her. And then I'm like, no, it's me. Like, look, I've got the, like, a psycho being.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (10:02)

Like, it is guys. Thanks for reading my book. They're like, who is.

Sarah J. Maas (10:04)

Yeah, yeah. And so they Google you.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (10:06)

And, like, I think that was her.

Sarah J. Maas (10:07)

But then I feel, like, weird, like, sometimes, like, I'll, like, if I see someone reading, like, especially the Acotar books, and, like, I'll interrupt them. I'm like, what? Like, what party are you reading right now? Like, and is that, like, is that, like, your mom, like, walking in on you, like, when you're, like, watching porn or something? Where I'm like, is that, like, a weird thing? No one's ever told me that. Like, I've never, like, it is.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (10:26)

I cannot Imagine if I was reading and I looked up and it was you.

Sarah J. Maas (10:30)

I've would have been weird for you if I was.

Alex Cooper (10:32)

It would make it 10 times better

Sarah J. Maas (10:33)

if it was, like, a super smutty.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (10:35)

Wouldn't care because you wrote it. It makes.

Sarah J. Maas (10:37)

I know, but, like, it wouldn't, like, be, like, weird for, like.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (10:39)

No. I feel like I've walked into moments where someone was listening to one of my episodes that was, like, a more sexual one, and they're like, I'm listening to you right now. And I do the same thing where I'm like, which one? And then it's like a bonding moment, and it's between the girlies.

Sarah J. Maas (10:53)

Yes.

Alex Cooper (10:53)

Yeah. Okay.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (10:54)

There are obviously so many celebrities who absolutely love you and your books. Which celebrity fan has left you the most starstruck?

Sarah J. Maas (11:02)

I mean, I respect, like, so many of these, like, women especially. So, like, like, Margot Robbie's, like, become. She's like, Margot's become, like, one of my friends. And, like, I love, like, meeting her. I just, like, you know, she was coming off the heels of, like, Barbie when we first met. I just, like, it was amazing when she and I, like, first met up. Like, we were at, like, a coffee shop in New York, and it was just. It was really, really moving and inspiring to see how many young women came up to her. Like, not for a picture, not for anything, just to say thank you for Barbie and what that meant to me. And, like, I loved and, like, that's kind of, like, the fan interactions that I have are usually, like, people saying things like that. And so, like, it was really cool to, like, just, like. I thought it was, like, the impact that Margo has had on, like, amazing Whip. Like, she's just. I love her when I, like, describe her to people. I'm like, she's as beautiful on the outside as she is on the inside. And, like, so, so smart and, like, it's an overwhelming combination, but she's a marvelous person.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (11:54)

Speaking of Margot, people are obviously dying to know what is going on with this potential ACOTAR TV series. Can you give us any update of, like, what do you think is happening? So.

Sarah J. Maas (12:08)

So I have the rights back to everything now, and getting the rights back to all my things has been a big part of my journey in recent years that, like, maybe at some point soon I will, like, talk more about. But, like, right now, my focus is on books and, like, get. It's been a little while since, like, you guys have had something, so, like, I'm focusing on, like, that. But, like, I look at any TV movie adaptation as kind of like, another facet of, like, the worlds that I've created. And it's something that I want to be in charge of. Like, I want to be figuring out. Like, I want to be learning everything that I can. I'm, like, a type A, like, control freak a little bit. But, like, I want to, like, I want to know, like, everything about how it gets made, not because of that control, but just because I love movies, I love tv. Like, I want to, like, be a part of that, and I want to see everything adapted the way I envision it and the way, like, I know fans want it. And, like, I don't ever want to hear, like, oh, we need to change this to appeal to, like, XYZ demographic. I'm like, no, that's not how you make art. That's not how I create my stories. So, like, when I do it, like, it's going to be like, you're going to do it me. And I will, like, dedicate, like, everything that I have to, like, making it right. But, like, it will be like, I will be in there, like, you know, looking at, like, all the design, but also, like, what does it sound like? Because music plays such a big part. Like, so, like, I'm not just gonna, like, the music is gonna have to be, like, a huge project.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (13:37)

You'll have to have, understandably, your hands on every single part of it, because it's in your brain. Like, you created this world, so to give it over to anyone else would be.

Sarah J. Maas (13:47)

No, Like, I view it as, like, my. My legacy in a way where I'm like, I put my books out into the world. That's, like, one way that the fans are, like, interacting and seeing these characters. But, like, the physical version of that, like, needs to be aligned. It can't just be, like, someone's take on that. I'm like, no, this is.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (14:03)

It's. Yeah, it's yours.

Sarah J. Maas (14:05)

Yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (14:05)

Have you seen the fans who have created, like, the AI world of, like, the Spring Court? And, like, it's.

Sarah J. Maas (14:13)

No, I have not.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (14:14)

I. I need to show you after. Not. I, I. Is it cool? It is so incredible. And I'll be on Tick Tock watching. And I'm like, honestly, they made Rhysand look like. I'm like, how are you gonna actually find a normal human being that looks like.

Sarah J. Maas (14:26)

I know. I, I. Sometimes I. That's part of my problem is I don't. Yeah. And that's. I'm not gonna, like, settle for someone because I'm, like, being pushed I'm like, I need to find the perfect person and take however long it takes to find them. I have yet to find my perfect Reese. I don't really have, like, anyone in. That's the thing. I have not found anyone. So I'm like, I can't, like, be forced to, like, pick someone.

Alex Cooper (14:48)

It's gonna.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (14:48)

It's gonna happen when it's gonna happen.

Sarah J. Maas (14:49)

It needs to be organic. It needs to be, like, something that comes from me, and it's, like, something that I'm proud of, you know?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (14:58)

Okay, let's go back, because to anyone who isn't familiar with your full story. So your relationship with writing kind of started as a teenager, but there was a moment in seventh grade where you stopped reading because it wasn't cool anymore. What was it that made you feel that way?

Sarah J. Maas (15:16)

Okay, first of all, we read the most boring books that, like. And I was a big reader. Like, I loved reading as a kid. I loved fairy tales. I, like, I loved all of that. Like, I like, all the Babysitters club, the Boxcar children. But we weren't reading that in school. And, like, yes, we were exposed to, like, great writing, but it was so boring for me to be, like, quite honest, like, just at that age that, like, I was like, I'm done. I'm done with it.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (15:45)

And what were you like in middle school?

Sarah J. Maas (15:47)

I was cool. I was a cool. I. I, like, I've, like, been through eras of my life. I'm turning 40, like, very soon, and I'm having, like, a big girls weekend, or it's actually more like a week. I. I got a week out of everyone in the Bahamas. And the theme is Sarah's eras. And.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (16:08)

Okay, can you take us through those eras?

Sarah J. Maas (16:10)

So this is because there have been so many versions of me. So middle school, Sarah was, like, all into, like, nails makeup, like, Backstreet Boys versus NSync versus Spice Girls. I was Spice Girls all the way, obviously. But then I kind of had, like, this secret life in middle school where, like, every day I would, like, run home from school. Like, I would chat with my friends and then, like, bolt down the streets of New York City to get home in time to watch Sailor Moon on, like, Cartoon Network every afternoon.

Alex Cooper (16:42)

Oh, my God.

Sarah J. Maas (16:43)

And so, like, popular girl was a, like, anime freak, like, obsessed with, like, Sailor Moon, like, all this anime. And then, like, around seventh grade, I also got into, like, reading fantasy. Like, I figured out, like, okay, like, there are books that I do like to read that, like, are, like, fairy tales and, like, but for, like, Grown ups in a way. So like fantasy became a whole thing. So I was like hanging out with my friends, going to the bar and bought mitzvahs, like Dirty dancing on the floor and then like going home and like taping episodes of Sailor Moon on my VHS recorder.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (17:16)

So it all kind of started in middle school where you were interesting. I don't like the books in school, but I like these books that I found in this like fantasy world.

Sarah J. Maas (17:25)

Yes.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (17:25)

And you started to kind of have an appetite for it.

Sarah J. Maas (17:27)

Yes. And then like around, like around the same time, I realized like, I didn't just want to read it. Like I wanted to write that kind of thing and come up with my own like adventures.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (17:37)

Well, that's what's so crazy is when I was researching, I'm like, you started writing Throne of glass at 16 years old.

Sarah J. Maas (17:44)

Okay, so Throne. So when I started writing Throne of Glass, I was in my emo Lord of the Rings phase. Sarah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (17:51)

Legolas.

Sarah J. Maas (17:53)

I still have my cardboard cut out of Legolas. And like, Josh is weirdly threatened by him. Like he doesn't like to see him because like, there's all these like, stains around Lego's Legolas mouth from like where like I used to like make out with him. Like, like, like, Sarah, this is icon. It's the worst and the best thing because I didn't go on a single date in high school. Legolas was my boyfriend. My, my seven year old. I told my seven year old son that once when he was younger, and he literally believes me to the point where we were watching the Lord of the Rings once and he's like, hey, mom, look, it's your boyfriend.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (18:25)

Yeah, that is, yeah.

Sarah J. Maas (18:26)

And I was like, I was like it. I was like, I know. I was like, can you believe I left him for daddy? So sad. And he's like, oh, mom. To the point where like even now, like again, I don't really get starstruck. But like, even now, if I saw Orlando bloom, I would piss my pants, my pants vomit on myself, like ovulate. Like everything would happen all at once. I wouldn't like, I, I would cry. I don't know, every bodily fluid would just come spraying out of me. I would not be okay.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (18:56)

Okay, but this all makes sense though, Sarah, because like, I was so curious. I'm like 16 years old. You start writing Throne of Glass and, and I read, I know that you like kind of trash it eventually and rewrote the whole thing. But still, to be 16 years old and have the wherewithal to create such A large, incredible world in your head and be able to pen to paper. That is really incredible.

Sarah J. Maas (19:18)

Well, like, so middle school Sarah was, like, cool, had a lot of friends. High school, I went to a different high school where I had to start all over again. And, like, high school Sarah didn't have many friends and, like, was not very happy. Hence the emo. Sarah, like, I mean, full on, like, studded belt, the, like, plastic bands, like, and, like, I was that kid that, like, had my headphones on, like, in the hall of school. Like, probably, like, very, like, just feeling like a fish out of water there. Because, like, I went to a very, like, posh Upper east side high school. And, like, I was not like a lot of the other kids. And so with my books and stuff, like, they. I knew I wanted to write. I got, like, the idea for Throne of Glass and I wanted to write that as an actual story. But then the timing of it was, like, just perfect where, like, I was in a place in my life where, like, I just needed, like, an escape from school and life sometimes. And, like, closing my door to my bedroom and, like, turning on, like, my. Like, it was like one of those square imac computers. Like, I was like, I use, like, floppy disks for the first few drafts of Throne of Glass. But, like, that was like, an escape for me. That was. It was like, if things weren't going well at school or, like, at home or just, like, in general.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (20:39)

But it's so beautiful, too, to hear you say that. Like, this was such a passion of yours. And then obviously you were able to turn that passion into your livelihood and your purpose. And then at 26, you finally publish and come out with Throne of glass almost 10 years after you came up with the idea, which I think, like, it's like, a really hard industry to get into. Obviously, anything in publishing, it's like, it's close to impossible sometimes to get your first book published. Did any of your family or friends try to sway you and be like, sarah, I don't know if this is the easiest path to go down for a career.

Sarah J. Maas (21:19)

I got into a number of fights with my parents, who. I say this quite lovingly, but my parents are, like, New York lawyers. My mom was a judge. Like, they're intellectual again, lovingly snobs. They, you know, read the New York Times front to back every day. But, like, back. And my dad still insists on reading a physical newspaper. So you're. So my parents are your parents. So my. I am very different. Whereas, like, I'm like, page six, baby. Like, I'M like, tell me, tell me all the hot gas. Like, I need to know everything. And so. Like, my parents, like, oh, did you read this analysis of so and so? I'm like, no, but did you see what she was wearing. Wearing last night? And they're like, what is this? But so I was always, like, this changeling alien child who was, like, into the fantasy stuff. And my parents were great in that. They always gave me an unlimited budget. Like, four books. They gave me the space to write. Like, you know, they let me just go lock myself in my room for hours and work. But, like, once, like, college was kind of, like, wrapping up. Like, they're like, so, what are you gonna do? And I'm like, I'm gonna be a writer. And they're like, well, most people, one can't get a book deal. And, like, my parents had friends who, like, you know, were either, like, lawyers in the literary world or, like, literary agents. And they were like, it's impossible. Like, you're not going to get it. Like. And fantasy wasn't even, like. Like, fantasy comes in cycles where, like, sometimes it's huge and then it quiets down. So, like, we were in, like, a dystopia phase. Like, it was like, the Hunger Games was kind of, like, starting to become, like, insane around then. So my parents were like, like, you're publishing this. Like, you want to publish this epic fantasy thing? Like, and who's paying for this? Where? And you want to go move out with your boyfriend to Los Angeles and get a car and, like, all, like, you need to. So I actually considered, like, doing, like, an MFA thing just to, like, buy myself more time. But I did, like, I went to one, like, interview with, like, a director of an MFA program, and when she heard that I write fantasy, she literally went like that. Like, an actual, like, sound.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (23:25)

And you were like, bye.

Sarah J. Maas (23:26)

Yeah. I was like, we're done here. I was like, I'll sign a copy of my book for you one day. And I just. I walked out and I was like, I'm not doing that. I don't need anybody to teach me what I've taught myself. Like, I was a creative writing major in college. But, like, it was. It was a very fun major to have, but it was useless for me because a lot of the classes were. Or all the classes were geared towards writing short stories, poetry. And so, like, senior thesis time came around, and I was like. I was like, I want to write a book. Like, and I also, like, want you to spend some time in our, like, seminar talking about like, how do you get published? Like, how do you get an agent? How do you get published? And like, it was like, it wasn't even. It was like I was the first person who would ever ask that. And I was like, I don't want to write short stories. I tried to argue with my advisor that I didn't have to take poetry because I would never write a word of poetry in my life. I was like, I can swear to you here and now, I'm writing fantasy books. I was like, in the office, like 21 years old, I was like, I am writing fantasy books and I will never write a poem, so exempt me from this class. And he was like, no, you have to take it. And like, I'm terrible. It's. There's like a mathematical component to poetry, like the meter and the rhythm and all that stuff that like, Josh had to help. Josh was a math major and he had to help me with my homework. Where you like diagram out. And I was like, I don't understand.

Alex Cooper (24:51)

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Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (26:04)

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Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (27:06)

to talk about these three series.

Alex Cooper (27:09)

So when I was talking to my

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (27:10)

friends about it, I think something that is quite literally the most mind blowing thing that you have been able to do and a lot of people are so perplexed by how you've done it, is all of your series converge in some way or another. But that must take years of planning. So can you try to explain to me how you have been able to, to have the foresight that all three of these giant series somehow overlap?

Sarah J. Maas (27:39)

I mean, I don't actually know how I have the brain capacity for this because like on a daily basis I'm like barely functioning. But I don't. I mean like, because I started writing so young, I was able to like figure out these worlds, these characters. And when I was trying to get published initially, like I had a lot of downtime like while like waiting for like agents to respond, publishers to respond. And like writing's the thing that I love the most. So like I was always writing. So like during that waiting time when I was trying to get Throne of Glass published, Acotar came out of me. The first two books of ACOTAR like poured out of me in 2008, 2009, like whenever, around then, like in like a two month span. The first book is very similar to what came out of me. I wound up rewriting Mist and Fury. The ultimate like direction of it was of course the same. But like I've been. And then Crescent City was like a passion project for many years that I would write kind of to. This sounds cuckoo crazy but like I would reach the end of a day having like edited like Throne of Glass or Acotar and like I just was like done with those worlds and I wanted to go like play. And like at the time, at the time, like there was not as much cursing in like my earlier books.

Alex Cooper (28:57)

I was like, I just want to

Sarah J. Maas (28:57)

write like fucking shit and damn it all the time.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (28:59)

Like.

Sarah J. Maas (28:59)

And like. And so Crescent City just started as something. I did not have any intention of publishing it and it was just on the side. And then as I was writing that, I was like, oh. And, like, so I had all this time, very early on in my career, even before my career really took off, to, like, have a vision of what I wanted to do.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (29:16)

Do you have, like, a map in your house to, like, be like, okay, this world? No, it's all.

Sarah J. Maas (29:22)

All in my head. I mean, like, I have notebooks where I write things down, but, like, the overarching, like, vision of it is all.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (29:30)

I wish I could live in your head for a day. That is crazy.

Sarah J. Maas (29:33)

All you would hear is just Cheetos and Diet Coke on repeat and all

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (29:37)

these worlds bouncing back and forth.

Sarah J. Maas (29:38)

Yeah. No, I mean, it's. It's. It's like. It's very strange to have, like, all of that in your head because, like, I. And it's almost like a separate thing where, like, I have, like, two kids now. So, like, on a daily basis, I'm like, okay, like, what am I making them for dinner that's not, like, boxed Mac and cheese? And then, like, I, like, switch between these modes where suddenly, like, I'll be able to put that away when they're at school. And then, like, the worlds expand again and I'm living in them.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (30:03)

It's like a muscle you have to flex when you get to sit back down.

Sarah J. Maas (30:06)

Yeah. But then also, like, I sometimes, like, go back, especially with, like, the music that's inspired, like, some. Some of the scenes and, like, the books, and just, like, I will listen to the music that inspired those scenes and relive those scenes and, like, sometimes just, like, cry or just, like. Just, like. And I don't even read what's in there. I just, like, relive that moment of, like, where. Clarity where I saw it. And so sometimes in reflecting and going back, I'm able to think, like, you know, like, that moment really struck, like, struck me and, like, stood out to me. Like, how can we pull that through in the future? And then, like. But then sometimes I'm thinking, like, books ahead where, like, I'll write, like, one little line and be like. Like, this will come back. And, like. But then sometimes things line up, too, in, like, a really, like, cosmic, psychic way where it. I mean, I. Again, I have, like, crystals all over my desk. So I'm like. Am I channeling, like, something that's happening in, like, the unit, like, another universe? And I'm just, like, writing it down? Because it all lines up perfectly. Yes. Like, sometimes where I. Like, there is something recently where, like, it lined up like, I had not planned it, but it was like my subconscious or like some like, human wide psychic thing. Like, I had tapped into it. It was like, you know, slow pitch over the, the plate for me just to like, it was there. It was, it was there. And I just. And like, I jumped out of my seat and like, shut my computer and I was like, no, like, we're done here. We're done. This is like too perfect. Like, this is planned. This. Like, I was like, some. This came from not me. And I don't. And I don't say that from like an egotist. I just literally I'm like, this worked out. It was, it was, it worked out like almost to like a like, supernatural level.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (31:41)

This makes me so happy as a fan because I'm like, I was wondering, I'm like, how does this all go down? But now I want to talk about some of your female characters because I genuinely believe in the past. I do think that fantasy, and I think everyone knows this, like, fantasy and that world was more dominated by male authors, obviously. And then you came into the game and I think people really gravitate towards your work because of these really strong, independent, complex women that you are creating in these worlds. One of your most beloved female characters in Throne of Glass is Aelin. What did you want to communicate through her evolution? I don't.

Sarah J. Maas (32:22)

Aen came out of me just. And like, there was no planned evolution. Aen in some ways, her journey mirrored so much of me growing up, growing into, like, I poured a lot. Like, she's not me in any way, but like there was a journey, like a mirror journey there. And a lot of my books are like. And what my characters go through is in some ways like a mirror into things I've been going through. But like, Aelin from the start just came out of me fully formed. Kind of like Athena springing from Zeus's head like that. And she just was there and like, I almost just let her lead the way and like my life, like, paralleled it where I could understand the. It sounds like I had no control over her, but I really didn't. And I let her lead me where she needed to go, but also was able to like, connect with her. Like, I don't know, like, there were just like moments in my life where I can like, look back at those scenes in Throne of Glass and remember like, what it was that inspired that scene and not, not like play by play events, but just like a feeling like in like the, like the Assassin's Blade, like novellas, like, there's like, one of the later ones, like, she's, like, out all night, like, partying and, like, just, like, watches the sunrise and it's. I was like, that was, like, me, like, in college, like, staying out with my friends, like, having an amazing time at a party, and just, like, that feeling of, like, you're young and everything's beautiful and, like, you are immortal and, like, isn't it amazing to be alive and, like, here, like, that went into that. And so, like. Like, those were the thing when, like, I was able to connect with her in those moments. Like. And so I don't know, like, and then, like, her rage and her, like, her anger. I'm like, I never got to see women being angry and bitchy the way I often felt. Like, I always felt like everyone, like, had to be, like, sweet and nice and, like, I was not those things. I was not any of those things. Like, I was always kind when I tried to be to people. But, like, I had, like, strong feelings about things. Like, I had, like, I could fly off the handle at something. And I wanted to write about a woman that, like, didn't have to be appealing to anyone and that, like, I did not give a shit if anyone reading it liked her. Like, this was her. Sorry. Like, that was who she was. And, like, take it or leave it. Better. And, like, I wanted to let her make bad choices and learn from those choices and grow in the same way that, like, I also wanted her to have, like, different romantic relationships. Like, I don't know, like, any of my. Anyone that, like, has just been like, I met this one guy, and, like, we're in love, and now we're getting married and that's it. Like, no, Like, I wanted her to grow with that and take things away from those relationships. And I don't know, she just, like, I. As I was learning all of that stuff growing up, and, like, you know, like, she was too. Like, so there was just a natural mirror.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (35:23)

She was one of the first characters you ever wrote. So it's like, to know that there was a mirror there. It. It makes sense. And I think it's beautiful that you were like, I literally don't care if anyone likes her. Doesn't, like, this is who she is. Take her, leave her.

Sarah J. Maas (35:36)

Yeah. I mean, that was the, like, Manon and thrown a glass. Like, that was, like, an even more extreme version of it. I was like, she's just gonna go, like, with her nails, and she's gonna do her thing. Yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (35:44)

Yeah. You said you're drawn to writing women who can't kind of be playing placed in a definable category, which I love. As a woman, yourself in this industry, what box have you felt like people have tried to put you in? Oh, you're like, oh, sweetie, how much time do we have?

Sarah J. Maas (36:03)

I feel like I should have a sedative before I, like, completely explode. I just think in general, when a lot of people hear that I write romantic fantasy, you know, like, as much as I love my, like, steamy, sexy, hot scenes. Like this dismissal now of like, smut, where I'm like, yeah, I write smut. Like, I love it. But, like, that's not what. Like, my fans come up to me to talk about. Like, they, like, when they want to come thank me, like, it's like, yes, we giggle and laugh about, like, the hot scenes, whatever. But, like, they tell me how they left, like, their abusive husband after they read A Court of Mist and Fury. And like, we cry over that. And so like, the putting me into this box of like, she just writes, like, really sexy stuff. I'm like, no, I love writing that stuff. I always be proud of it. Like, I mean, granted, like, I was like, copy editing a scene in Silver Flames once where it was like, when Nesta blows Cassian at like, the dinner table. And my dad was visiting and I was like, I had like, the printed out pages and my dad was like, what are you working on there? And I was like, oh, my God. I was like, nothing.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (37:10)

We're done.

Sarah J. Maas (37:10)

I'm not editing this scene anymore. It was the worst fucking thing.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (37:14)

Like, dad, please don't read this.

Alex Cooper (37:16)

No.

Sarah J. Maas (37:16)

And like, he insists on it. I'm like, should I rip out pages for you? But then, like, the sex. But that's the thing where I'm like, the sex sometimes is tied to the plot. Like Silver Flames, for example, like, Nesta and Cassian, like, they're having, like, hot sex and, like, bodily fluids are flying everywhere. But it is, like, intensely tied to their own emotional journeys and their own journey as a couple of. And so, like, this dismissal of it, like, it's just like, smut. Like, whatever. I'm like, it's fun. I design it to be entertaining, but it's also moving. And, like, I write like, what I consider to be, like, cool shit that, like, means something to me.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (37:50)

I love that you just clarified that too. Because I do believe it is such a double standard, obviously with women that, like, if you at all tap into sexuality or sex in any realm, everything else that you also are contributing in that category is completely dismissed. Because people are like, oh, you're just writing, like, sex. And you're like, wait, no, that's like, what?

Sarah J. Maas (38:14)

And.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (38:14)

And so it's so frustrating. But I do believe in a. In a gorgeous way. Like, if people took the time, that's also just a testament to. People sometimes don't give a. And they want to misunderstand you. If you take the time to understand these female characters that you're writing, yes, they have been so liberating for so many women. They have helped so many people, and it's been an escape for a lot of women, which you've done an incredible job with.

Sarah J. Maas (38:35)

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I just. I mean, I think of it as, like, when I. When I want to reread books. Like, I'm not going to, like, the depressing, boring shit. Like, I want to read books that make me happy, that have a happy end. And, like, if you want to read, like, those other types of books, fine, like, good for you. But for me, like, I want things where, like, I go on a journey. Like, I like and I like, there's hot sex that I can, like, you know, dog ear those pages and, like, read all of that however many times I want, but then also, like, it brings me joy. And I find that there is a tendency for people to roll their eyes at things that bring joy and bring women joy especially. And it pisses me the fuck off constantly. And again, like. Like you were saying, like, any time, like, a woman, she writes something and there's, like, even a little hint of sex that's not, like, fade to black or, like, you know, very, like, artistically mentioned. It's like, suddenly it devalues the work. And it doesn't matter what else is in that book. If there is some kind of, like, hot graphically. And I'm like, I don't understand, though, because you're writing a thing that is so accurate to life and sex is a part of life.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (39:48)

I was gonna say this is one of the. This is the commonality that all of us share in this world is we all have sex, we all deserve pleasure. And so if we continue to go down the path of women shouldn't write about these things or read about these things or talk about these things, then it really is still just a man's game.

Sarah J. Maas (40:04)

So it's very, like, Victorian almost, where I'm like, okay, like, you're, like, getting into the nitty gritty of, like, you know what? Like, you're like, Midwestern alcohol, alcoholic. I'm like, what about, like, the sex? What's Going on with that, like, that, that is a key part of anyone's life. I'm like, you want to have a mirror, like an accurate mirror, and you don't have to have sex, but it's just this idea that like having it there again devalues the work. It's. I find it a little more than frustrating, but then it's also like anything related to women, like I, I get like watching like Lord of the Rings or like reading that like as a kid, like all these fantasy books, like with all these guys in them, there's like no women. Well, I would think like, okay, like, if I was there, like, me and Legolas are running through the Mirkwood together. I totally marry Legolas in my mind, obviously.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (40:54)

Sarah. Yes, I'll give you that one.

Sarah J. Maas (40:56)

Thank you. Thank you very much. That's my number one fantasy. But like, I'm going on an epic fantasy quest in my mind. Like, I'm like, in Mordor I get my fucking period. What do I do? And like, I want to write about that shit. I'm like, that's like, I mean, it's not only like funny to me, but it's also like, this is a reality, this is our life. Like, I'm like. And so like in my books I'm like, I want to write about things that like, you know, the sex, the like, you know, the real stuff. Like the real stuff where I'm like, what if you got your period when you were climbing the slopes of Mount Doom?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (41:28)

What would you do?

Sarah J. Maas (41:29)

Like, are you free bleeding? Like, are you like, do you have cramps?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (41:32)

Sarah J. Maas is getting the hard hitting facts.

Sarah J. Maas (41:34)

I just want to know. Maybe some people don't want to know those things, but I was like, I get such, I do such a deep dive into the world, into these characters that I'm thinking of like bathroom breaks. When was their last period? Like, all of that.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (41:47)

I think it's so obvious though that although there and we always hear the negatives, there's such clearly an appetite for what you've done. I also love how you talk about the real stuff. Because speaking of the real stuff, obviously, yes, your books are fiction, but like you are hitting very real, honest topics that you can kind of extract what you want to take from each. And I think there was a lot of online discourse around Feyre's pregnancy in a court of silver Flames because I think a lot of people were frustrated, right, that she didn't have control or understanding of what was happening to her body and her partner did which we'll get to. But can you talk a little bit about why you chose to write her story that way? I

Sarah J. Maas (42:39)

love my children. I am obsessed with my kids. I hated being pregnant. I hated it. It was traumatic for me every step of the way. Starting with, like, when I was first pregnant with my son. And I was told by, like, this. This asshole of a nurse, like, okay, this is your weight, and you can only gain this much weight while you're pregnant. And, like, as someone who's had, like, a history with, like, disordered eating and stuff, like, being told, like, you can. You're only allowed to gain between this, like, here and here. Like, this is all you can gain during pregnancy. It took every bit of joy away where instead of focusing on this beautiful, beautiful baby growing inside of me, I was thinking about the food I was putting in my body and then the constant tests and appointments where you're being, like, literally, like, having, like, probes in you. And, like, you know, just, like, it felt very. And like, I. I'm, like, the person where I, like, I have to make myself go to the gynecologist. Even though I love my gynecologist, I'm like, I. And I hate doctors. I hate waiting rooms. I hate all of that. I hate the interruption to my daily life. And so pregnancy was not fun. And then my son was born in an emergency C section two weeks late. The people that I knew back then who had had kids were like, oh, like, you don't want to take any of the drugs. Like, you will, like, really hurt, like, the baby. And it's like the opposite. Like, if you're a good mother, like, you won't, like, take the pain medication. And so I was like, I. I, like, I came up with a birth plan. I had a doula. I had all this stuff planned out. And if. And if that works for you, like, that's fine. But for me, that was my way of trying to, like, control it. And then that day, I'm like, I'm told, no, like, I have to have every medical intervention possible. I have to have an emergency C section. But, like, worse than that, like, I went into the hospital and I was told by the doctor who was going to, like, induce. She was first going to induce me. She's like, go have a big meal, because you're going to be, like, you know, pushing this baby out all night. So I get to the hospital after having, like, a big dinner to repair myself for labor, and then it turns out, like, I need to have an emergency C section. But the doctor who is there is a man, and he starts yelling at me, saying, why would you eat anything? You can't eat anything. And I was like, your colleague literally told me to go have a big dinner and come here. I did not know I was having an emergency C section. I'd never had surgery of any sort in my life before this point. So, like, for me even to be in, like, a hospital gown in a hospital, like, I'm terrified. And then this male, this man I've never met before and, like, is telling me, like, this is what we are doing. And, like, you did everything wrong. And he's scolding me, so I'm already terrified. It's my first kid. I don't know what to expect. And so then they're like, okay, we're taking you back. And as I can my husband come back for, like, the epidural for all. Like, I'd never seen the inside of an operating room. And they were like, no. And I was like, can he please come back? I need someone there with me. I've never done this before. And they're like, he's not allowed in there. And so, like, they wouldn't let him back. So I'm, like, in the, like, operating room, like. Like, sitting on the table waiting for this massive needle, and I'm shaking so violently with terror that, like. And, like, all the doctors there, like, ignored, like, they did not give a shit. It was the intern, like, the med school intern that, like, saw me, like, panic like a girl, and she came over and, like, held my hand through it, and I was like, whoever you are, and, like, I hope, like, she. She probably has no idea that she helped me. Like, that meant so much to me that day, that moment of kindness where I was, like, a fellow young woman, like, being like, this woman is terrified, and, like, no one is being nice to her. And so then, like, the recovery from the C section was horrible. The guy, like, sliced me way too high. He was lazy. I'm probably giving you, like, way too many.

Alex Cooper (46:22)

No, you're not.

Sarah J. Maas (46:23)

This is, like, this is the real shit. He sliced me in a way that was convenient to him, but essentially destroyed, like, the flow and look of my stomach where it never would heal, right to the point where we moved to a new state eventually and I got pregnant with my daughter. And, like, it took me a while to even want to have a second kid, because what I went through and the recovery from the C section was so bad. It was not fun for me. And, like, I had to have this emergency C section one, Like. Because, like, my son was two weeks late, but two, he started going into distress, but, like, he had not dropped. And it was the kind of thing where I sometimes think about this. Like, if I had been born, like, a hundred years before, I would have died this. And so, like, that really stuck with me, this sense of, like, I should be dead and my son should be dead from this. And I hope he's listening to this, like, not freaking out right now, but, like, I should be, like, not here. And so, like, that kind of, like, has lingered where I'm like, without modern science and medicine, like, I wouldn't be here. But then when I had my. My daughter, I had an amazing gynecologist here in la, actually. And she. In our first appointment when we met each other, she took one look at what this man had done to me and she had to walk out of the room and she was like, I never would have cut you like that. And she was so. She was shaking. She was like, this was unnecessary. He's like, well, why did he do it? She's like, because he was lazy and he was an asshole. And so then she. And then when it came time to deliver my daughter and she had to, like, she had to use the same line, and she was so mad that she had to, like, do this. And, like, so it just was like this very traumatic thing. And my body never felt, like, with a kid in me, like, it never felt like my body anyway, because I'm like, there's an alien growing in me. This is weird. And, like, every time, like, they would move and I'd, like, see them, I'd, like, I was not like, oh. I was like, get it out. What is this? And so then, like, to lose complete control, like, a lot, like, just. I did not have, like, easy pregnancies and births. And so, like, Feyre and all of that, like, just was my own way of processing my. And, like, again, like, it's not like, I didn't die. I wasn't, like, dead like Feyre was. But, like. Like, the fear, like, Rhys's fear, even that probably came from my fear and thinking about having another kid. And, like, just, like, all of that, that's what. And that's the way where, like, the things I go through in life feed into my books. Where, like, it wasn't a play by play of my pregnancy and, like, obviously my kids don't have wings that are getting stuck in the birth canal. But, like, the fear, the trauma, like, all of that, like, the writing that book allowed me to get it out of my system in a way and process it.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (49:15)

Thank you for sharing that because obviously I. I've read the book and. And this gives so much more color to, like, the why and. And it just made me think, too. Like, we don't talk about how it is very risky. Yeah.

Sarah J. Maas (49:32)

And there's, like, a constant. Like, they're constantly doing tests. Like, every ultrasound is terrifying because you want to make sure, is everything okay? Is there a heartbeat even? And you're like. And so there's. Oh, there's. There's joy in it, but there's fear constantly, like, constantly built into the stages of pregnancy. And, like, maybe some women do just have pure joy, but I found it to be very stressful, very scary. I just was constantly, like, worrying that something would go wrong. I mean, when I was pregnant with my daughter, I actually, like, broke my ankle and fell down the stairs. Yeah. I, like, took one step and, like, my ankle just, like, crunched, and then I fell down the stairs because my ankle, like, gave way and I was, like, pretty heavily pregnant. I had to be, like, rushed to the hospital and, like, they'd, like, check that the baby was okay and that, like, I. Traumatizing. Yeah. And it just was, like, a level of, like, freak out, where everyone's like, oh, my God, like, the worst possible thing could happen. And it's happened. Like, it was intense. It was.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (50:26)

Were you nervous at all about the feedback of writing this into Feyre's?

Sarah J. Maas (50:34)

No. I mean, like, the thing is, is, like, again with, like, the sex and the periods, I'm like, motherhood is a thing that so many women experience for better or worse. And it was something that I wanted to write about where I didn't want. Like, Feyre's journey shouldn't just end where it's like, she's happily ever after and she's punching out kids. I'm like, no. Like, there's, like, a story to be told there. There are things that, like, will play out from that. And, like, motherhood doesn't need to be, like, glossed over. It doesn't need to be something that's, like, seen as weak. Like, someone being in a loving relationship with a person and choosing to bring a new life into this world and to share their world and open up their hearts to someone. That's a beautiful thing. Like, however you make a family, like, that is a beautiful, wonderful thing, and it is not a weakness. And, like, I have become a stronger person because I'm a mother. Like, I learned how to stand up for Myself becoming a mom more than I ever did before I had kids. And I realized, like, I. Who I am now, not just being a mom, but the things I have learned as a mom, like, I really, like, they're like, the biggest badasses in the world. And, like, I have learned more from being a mom than I ever did. And I think that's a strength and a wisdom that, like, should be shared.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (51:52)

It is. And, like, beautiful that you did. I also remember, and I don't know if you can say if it was related to that, but you've said before that you were going through some mental health struggles while writing A Court of Silver Flames. And in the book, obviously, we see Nesta working through some of her trauma and trying to overcome it. Like, in what ways did your life at the time mirror or influence each other in that writing process?

Sarah J. Maas (52:21)

All of my books kind of have mirrored my own mental, mental health journey even before I realized I had issues. Like, a lot of what, like, Aelin went through and like, Era Fire, all of that, like, that was like, drawn from, like, very broken places in me. Mist and fury that came out of me. And I didn't even realize, like, what that meant about me. But Silver Flames was really the first time when I understood the connection. And I. Around 2018, I mean, it was the year my son was born. I had three books published. I. I was requested to come back from my maternity leave, like, a couple weeks later to do, like, copy edits. Like, page, like, like, just like reviewing stuff. And like, so, like, I literally, like, the stuff I sent in was splattered with breast milk because I was like, pumping and pumping, like, while I'm like, editing pages. It was a lot and, like, there was a lot. And it was like, like Kingdom of Ash was coming out that year. And like, I just kept like, refining things and tweaking things. And it's about to go to the printer and I'm told, like, it's too long. The book is too long by a couple pages. It has to go to print in like, two days. We need to find, like, five pages to cut. And like, not just like, like, see, like, like. So I went through this book again. Pumping, hormonal, recovering from a C section, frantic to find, like, to move text or like, literally not just like, cutting words, but, like, being like this line. Like, you could like, bump this word up here. Like, all like 1,000 pages in a frenzy. I finish it and then I get an email. Oh, yeah, we found this space. Anyway, it's okay. And so, like, it was just, like, there was a lot going on. And so, like, that was the year that I started to have these, like, panic attacks where I had this overwhelming sense that something awful was going to happen, that it was all going to go away and implode and that, like, it. And it got like, I would. I would. I had a panic attack that lasted for, like, two, three days out of the. I'd never had one before. And then they just started happening, like, more and more frequently until, like, I got to, like, the fall of, like, 2019. And I reached, like, such a dark place that, like, I scared myself. And I realized, like, I needed to talk to someone, I needed therapy. Like, it was a very, like, I feel like I'm gonna cry talking about it. It was a very, very low moment. And going to therapy wound up being the thing that saved my life. It saved my life. And I went. Because I looked at my son. Sorry. And I just was like, I want to be here. This is what I'm fighting for. I don't want to feel this way. The thing that I love the most, writing has become terrifying to me. Like, I need to not be sorry in this. In this hole. And so I started going to therapy. I got put on medication. We figured it out. It was rough. But out of that, as I was doing that, that's when I started writing Silver Flames. And so what Nesta feels in that book, I wrote that as I was going through therapy. And so, like, I've, like, never cried talking. I feel very emotional talking about this, but her, I remember, like, the exact moment when I, like, came up with the idea for this scene where she and Cassian are taking that hike, and she just breaks down. And, like, that was me in New Zealand with Josh, at my lowest, on a hike, thinking the same thing. And just like. And as I was on this hike, I started crying. And then I saw Nesta and I saw this scene. And so, like, that came out. I took notes, I wrote down that scene. Like, that all came out of me. And so where she gets, like, at the end, like, she's not perfect. She's not healed. She's still a work in progress. But, like, she was in a hole, I was in a hole. And, like, we dug our way out of it together. And, like, the friends that I, like, made during that, like, it's like, the friendship she made where, like, the love that you have with, like, your romantic partner is one thing, but then, like, finding, like, girlfriends that, like, get you and, like, don't judge you, like, that is another thing. And like, that was a gift that I was given too, that like. And so you just. I. I just basically wrote what needed to come out of me as I was going through all of it. And so that book has a very, very special place in my heart. But now I'm able to look back at like Mist and Fury and like Aelin's journey in Throne of Glass and realize like, oh yes, like I did actually suffer from a lot of these things for many, many years. And I had coping mechanisms in place that were very effective until they weren't anymore.

Alex Cooper (57:32)

Can you share a little bit with

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (57:34)

Mist and Fury, like, what you were going through?

Sarah J. Maas (57:37)

I mean, Feyre's sense of panic, like those panic attacks that she has where she's describing walls coming in. And like all of that came from feelings that I have or I didn't even know I was having panic attacks that race the acid in the blood feeling reactions to things like just like these ups and down, like, all of that and like I drew on my own, like emotional feelings. But I had no idea until I was able to reflect in therapy. Like, oh, like so like high school. Like, yeah, like, of course that's why I felt the way I did. Like my anxiety around like tests and all of that and like having to like perform like so many, like I've uncovered so many things about myself but that now make like looking back on my books, I'm like, oh, this is really interesting because like, this was the. That I was going through without even realizing I was going through that.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (58:30)

But Sarah, like, it's so real hearing you speak about this because you sharing your birth journey and as a woman sitting across from you, I. When you were like, oh my God, I hope this isn't too much detail. I was like, no, no, keep going. Because I think all of us are sitting here being like, yes, we've experienced it. We've all gone to. Whether it's a gynecologist and it's been uncomfortable or a doctor. And these are real things that kind of are like hush, hush and you

Alex Cooper (58:56)

don't talk about all the way from

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (58:58)

that traumatic experience experienced. And then having your child, you having this moment where the thing that you loved the most of like wanting to have a child and also writing and all of it kind of closing in and not going the way you wanting it to and everyone's like yelling at you to get these things done. What used to be such a fun time in your life to just write because it was in your brain, now it's like, it's a deadline. Let's go.

Sarah J. Maas (59:19)

Job.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (59:19)

It's a job. And so you started to put too much pressure on yourself because understandably, this thing has gotten so massive.

Sarah J. Maas (59:26)

Yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (59:26)

And unfortunately, as humans, sometimes we literally need the breaking point to slow us down to be, like, something has to change. I can't live like this forever.

Sarah J. Maas (59:36)

Yeah. Yeah. And just, like, realizing that, like, I do have a value as a person beyond my books and like, my. The love that, like, the people around me feel for me is not tied to my success and, like, and accepting that, like, whatever happens, like, that doesn't take away from me and, like, the blessings that I have in my life. Not in terms of, like, the material things, but like, my children, my husband, my friends. Like, those are all the things that, like, nothing can take that away from me. And that's what I, like, realize. Like, I learned to separate it in a very healthy way. Where now, like, it is, like a job for me now, but it's something that I can approach with joy and, like, confidence, where I'm not operating from a place of fear, which is what started to happen before I had these, like, massive panic attacks.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (60:27)

That is so relatable. And I have also experienced that in my life. So I'm like, very in sympatico with you right now because. And I think a lot of people can relate to that, of having a feeling in your life where you get something you've always wanted, but then the fear of losing it, it starts to take over your entire body, eats away at you, and you feel like as big as it keeps getting you almost. You don't have time to stop and process it and enjoy it. And it's like all of a sudden your greatest, like, happiness that was this passion thing becomes this nightmare.

Sarah J. Maas (61:02)

Exactly.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (61:03)

That only you can kind of re regulate and be like, if all this goes away tomorrow, I'm still me. I have my husband, I have my family. And it doesn't have to go away tomorrow. But I have to believe that if I need to know, I would be okay if it didn't.

Sarah J. Maas (61:16)

So I can respect. My therapist made me go through a scenario. She's like, okay, it's all done. What are you doing? And like, she made me walk through it. She's like, what do you do? She's like, what's your priority? I'm like, well, I need to make sure that my kids have. Like, we went through every worst case scenario, and she had me figure my way out through it until I realized, like, I am. I am I will survive. I am, like, strong. I am, like, able to adapt and pivot if I need to. And, like, so, like, knowing that that gave me a freedom to be, like, yeah, okay, I'll do the thing that I want to do. Like, worst case scenario, I'll be, like, a florist. Slash, like, dj slash. Like, amateur marine biologist. Like, I wanted to be, like, as a kid. Did you want to. Okay.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (61:59)

When I was in forest DJ Marine.

Sarah J. Maas (62:03)

Yes. Okay. Like, when I was in middle school.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (62:05)

What?

Sarah J. Maas (62:05)

When I was in middle school, I had this, like, I loved shark. I still love sharks.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (62:12)

Okay.

Sarah J. Maas (62:12)

Like, I wanted to be a marine biologist as well as a writer. But, like, I had this dream of, like, living, like, on the beach and, like, the Caribbean, like, sleeping in a hammock at night, and then, like, going out in the morning with, like, my spear fishing gun and catching my, like, lobster for breakfast, and then I go out and study sharks all day. And, like, that was the life I was going to lead.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (62:30)

So you're like, I could tap back into that guy. I'll go back to.

Sarah J. Maas (62:33)

I nearly flunked every science and math course, which is why I did not become a marine biologist. Freshman bio. I was, like, just on the verge of an F the entire year.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (62:43)

It's good to know, though, like, if all this goes away, we know where to look for you.

Sarah J. Maas (62:47)

Yeah. Find me on the open seas.

Alex Cooper (62:58)

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Alex Cooper (65:14)

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Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (65:17)

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Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (65:49)

I love that we also just hit on like f the whole system of like, oh my God, she's just talking about sex and we just went through all this really intense fudgeing shit. And now we can talk about the sex in a fun way. Because that is not just what it is, but it's a huge, major point.

Sarah J. Maas (66:05)

My parents. I'm not even telling them about this.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (66:07)

Okay, don't even tell them.

Sarah J. Maas (66:08)

Yeah, don't tell mom and dad.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (66:09)

Don't tell mom and dad. They're never going to watch this. They won't even know.

Sarah J. Maas (66:11)

They don't know how to use an iPad. My dad's reading the paper. Newspaper still.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (66:15)

This won't be in the newspaper.

Sarah J. Maas (66:16)

No.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (66:16)

Hopefully. Oh, God.

Sarah J. Maas (66:18)

Really good.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (66:20)

Okay. I was thinking about it. You talked about how, like, you love to write about the push and pull in relationships romantically, which, like, obviously we all love it, but what? First, you specifically, really makes you tick about that type of dynamic.

Sarah J. Maas (66:34)

I just like, if I'm like, does that kind of turn me on? Yeah. Okay, then I'm gonna write it. And, like, that dynamic, like, the characters have to, like, have that spark initially that's almost beyond me where, like, if they don't, like. And sometimes, like, two characters will, like, get together and there's, like, something there that I didn't even, like, plan. I'm like, okay, like, we're gonna go with that. And I like the way, like, that makes me feel like there's something there that I can't put my finger on, but there is, like, a chemistry.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (67:03)

Give me an example.

Sarah J. Maas (67:05)

I mean, when I was first writing Acotar a million bajillion years ago, those initial few weeks, I was just going by, like, like, headlight style. Like, I would only write as far as I could. Just, like, see, like, you know, like, down the road. And so feyre. I just was writing as it came to me. Like, I did not plan that book. It just poured out of me. So, like, I didn't know it was gonna happen. I didn't plan it out beforehand. So feyre, like, there's a beast. And I'm like, oh, this guy is, like, hot. And, like, she gets to his, like, house, and I'm like, oh, he's sexy. And then, like, we get to, like, the kids in the night when Reese shows up. And then I'm like, oh, no. Oh, no. Like, it's not this guy. It's this guy. And then, like. And so, like, that was like, so, like, that initial seed. I was like, this is a sweet little romance with, like. Like, Beauty and the Beast with, like, Feyre and Tamlin. And then, like, Paige, whatever. It's like Rhys walks on. And, like, I Did not plan him. He walked into that scene ahead of time. I was like, again, like, writing this in real time, not planning it. I had nothing to do. I didn't have a job at that time. So I just was, like, writing, like, whatever came out of me that day. And so, like, I.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (68:10)

One of the most epic scenes. You're like, it just happened in my brain.

Sarah J. Maas (68:13)

It literally. I was just writing this scene where, like, I had planned for there to be, like, you know, like, sexy, like, bonfires, all of that. And then, like, through the smoke, all of a sudden, here he comes, this guy comes. And I'm like, who the is this? And then, like, he's there, and I'm like, oh, no. Like, this is what we're doing. So it's like, that kind of thing where I'm like, like. And that's just, like, I saw it and, like, felt it all, like. But then, like, of course, like, it was so funny when, like, the first acotar came out and people were like, I love Tamlin so much. I got a tattoo of him, and, like, knowing what, like, was going to happen, I was like. I was like, I'm so happy.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (68:45)

Like, I'm so happy for you also. I'm so sorry.

Sarah J. Maas (68:48)

I will give you. I will pay for the tattoo laser removal in, like, a year.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (68:54)

Well, no, it was such a mind, because I also was falling in love with Tamlin, and then I was like, what is happening?

Sarah J. Maas (68:58)

But I wanted it to be, like, like, you know, like, when you fall in love with a guy and then you realize, like, he's not the one for you, and, like, he's got a lot of issues.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (69:04)

Yes. Across your books, if you had to say right now, today, which couple is your current favorite?

Sarah J. Maas (69:11)

Oh, my God. I don't know. That's really, really hard and depends on my mood. I don't know.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (69:18)

Okay.

Sarah J. Maas (69:19)

That's impossible. I don't like that. I. I can't.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (69:21)

I can't.

Sarah J. Maas (69:21)

I love them all again. Like, I have to feel it and, like, feel that, like, sexiness and, like, like. And I have to be, like, obsessed with them.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (69:30)

Okay. Mary Kill. Rhysand, Hunt. Rowan.

Sarah J. Maas (69:35)

Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm, like, trying to think of, like, the realities of my own marriage and, like, what has worked and what doesn't work.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (69:45)

Okay.

Sarah J. Maas (69:46)

I'm like, which one of them farts hurts the least? That's the one I want to marry perfect because I live with that reality.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (69:52)

Well, you know. You know, you wrote these people.

Sarah J. Maas (69:55)

I don't know. This is hard. I mean, Like, I kind of, like, want to all of them. I mean, to be quite honest and marry all. I don't want to kill any of them. I.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (70:05)

You'll. Them all.

Sarah J. Maas (70:06)

Yeah, I'll just.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (70:06)

Honestly. You make the rules today, Sarah. Okay.

Sarah J. Maas (70:09)

You want to.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (70:09)

Them all? Yeah, I'm fine.

Sarah J. Maas (70:11)

I mean, my parents aren't listening to this. Yeah, let's. I'll.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (70:13)

I have no idea.

Sarah J. Maas (70:13)

My. My son is listening.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (70:14)

Your son and your husband are in the other room, but that's fine.

Sarah J. Maas (70:16)

Yeah. No, no, I hope they know.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (70:19)

Is it true that you, like, part of your process is you sit and ponder how sexy the character's potential name is before officially giving it to them?

Sarah J. Maas (70:27)

Oh, yeah. Again, like, I am like, I will always be like a Legolas fangirl. And part of that's like, his name. And like, like, what if his name. Like, I mean, no offense to anyone, but, like, Frank, right? You're like, Frank, right?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (70:42)

Like, I'm not getting off to Frank

Sarah J. Maas (70:43)

the elf warrior prince.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (70:45)

Wait, are there any names that almost made the cut in your series but didn't that you could share?

Sarah J. Maas (70:54)

I mean, nothing. Like, yeah, nothing. I don't think I've, like, named, like, every. Like, I've used up, like, all my hot. But, like, usually, like, if, like, someone's attractive, I'm like, okay, let's find the hottest name and then I'll, like, go through, like, baby name websites and I'm like, sexy Celtic warrior God with abs of steel. What name is that?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (71:14)

I wish I could see your Google searches.

Sarah J. Maas (71:16)

It was. It would be sad. It would be like, what time's the next Labubu drop? And then like, show me abs and what are good names and what are hot baby names? That's a sexy, sexy baby names, which I'm sure is a very strange thing to.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (71:35)

I was so messed up from it because when I was reading it, at first I was in my own world and I really thought his name was Ry Sand. And then I thought, you're like, oh, you idiot. And then I. Sarah, no, I allow

Sarah J. Maas (71:48)

any and all pronunciations.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (71:50)

You do.

Sarah J. Maas (71:50)

It's a safe space. I am not going to. I am a reader first and foremost. Okay, So I understand.

Alex Cooper (71:56)

Well, because when you shorten it to

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (71:58)

rise, it looks like rise instead of Reese. And then I remember going on TikTok, and I was like, like, oh, my God, I'm an idiot. And so then I had to, like, retrain my brain, which is fine and feyre.

Sarah J. Maas (72:07)

I forget fear is not a natural one. Reese is an actual, like, name. In this world.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (72:11)

But wouldn't it be R E, E?

Sarah J. Maas (72:13)

Well, it can be spelled like that, but there's. Isn't there like a Phillies player?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (72:17)

You're right, Reese.

Sarah J. Maas (72:20)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. I don't know. His. It's not like favorite is a made up name. That one.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (72:25)

How did you come up with that?

Sarah J. Maas (72:27)

I don't know. That was just like. I was like. I was like, what? Sounds cool. Feyre. Done.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (72:32)

Done. Put her.

Sarah J. Maas (72:33)

Done.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (72:33)

We're done. Okay, we need to quickly talk about the Tamlin and Rhysand thing because it is a big conversation that I think people are gonna kill me if I don't ask about. Okay. Obviously, throughout the Acotar books, we saw Tamlin, like, trying to justify his controlling tendencies by saying things like, oh, my gosh, I'm just doing it to protect Feyre. Then he locks her in the manor, which was infuriating and wild. What were you hoping for readers to understand about their relationship as that slowly started to progress? Because you're right. You made us all fall in love with him and get tattoos about him and then. And then.

Sarah J. Maas (73:07)

Yeah. And you know what? I think, like, people change in relationships. And what Feyre. And to be fair, Tamlin went through under the Mountain them both up majorly. And Tamlin is someone that, you know, we haven't delved too deeply into this, but it's been put in the books like he had a fucked up family. He did not have any systems in place to cope with that. But he also is a guy who's been like, in charge and powerful for a long time. And then like, someone's like, stand. Like he doesn't know. He doesn't have the emotional toolkit to handle this, and he implodes and he drags her down with him. And that was just like, it just felt natural to me. Like, it just felt like a natural thing where, like, I knew who Tamlin was as a person. Knew, like, that this is how he would react. And this, like, shows who he is. And it's like Rhys responds to the trauma in a different way. In the way that Feyre needs and connects with. Tamlin can't handle that trauma. And it's, you know, he made his own choices, but he's also the result of his upbringing. So there's an element of, like, me that I pity him. You know, in the same way I'd pity, like, anyone who's like, endured like an abusive family trauma. All of that. Like, he, like, he's been through it and he doesn't know how to cope with it. And, like, he does shitty things because of it. And I'm not, like, excusing those shitty things because, like, that is why Feyre moved on. But I wanted Feyre to, like, realize, like, there are different ways to face the. That you go through, and that's what defines you.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (74:52)

The wedding scene.

Sarah J. Maas (74:53)

Oh, yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (74:54)

I loved it so much because I thought it was actually such, again, such an accurate representation of a woman before those doors open.

Sarah J. Maas (75:02)

Yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (75:02)

And you see so many women who talk about, I kind of knew before I went down the aisle, so why did I do it?

Sarah J. Maas (75:07)

Yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (75:07)

And you slowed it down so perfectly.

Sarah J. Maas (75:10)

Yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (75:11)

That it was this, like, horrifying, amazing moment that it was just. It was amazing. Do you think Tamlin will ever have a full redemption arc?

Sarah J. Maas (75:21)

I don't know. It's tricky because I've had so many women, especially, including some, like, very dear friends of mine, who've, like, come up and told me about, like, how they saw their own abusive relationship mirrored in Tamlin. And so if I were to ever write more about Tamlin, it would be done in a way where, like, it doesn't erase what he has done, and it doesn't, like, invalidate the feelings of, like, my readers who have connected to that. Like, I would. Like, it would have to be done in a way that was genuine to him and to reality, but also, like, well aware of, like, what he means for, like, different types of people and different experiences and to honor and respect them for that. And, like, I don't usually, like, let those things dictate what I write, but it's something like, one of my very best friends is, like, a survivor of domestic abuse. And, like, you know, she often refers to her ex as Tamlin. And, like, I've actually talked to her about it. Like, how would you feel? Like, you know, like. Like, if just, like, me as the create, like, separating us as friends, like, would that feel like a betrayal to you? And so, like, we've had, like, interesting conversations about it, but it's something I'd really want to think about. And I've given myself, like, several options because it's something that's probably, like, the hardest thing for me to figure. Like, to be quite honest. Like, that's tricky for me. It's tricky for me also, just emotionally, because, like, part of me wants to be like, that can burn in hell forever. But, like, as a writer, I'm like. But, like, what is the story that, like, what. What is like. And, like, not to explain. Excuse him for any of it, but Just explore it.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (77:05)

I love hearing your thought process though because again it's like this world and then pulling out of it like they are such like real themes. And then also hearing the dynamic like I'm curious, how did you. Obviously Rhys is the highest Fae in existence and so how.

Sarah J. Maas (77:22)

Highest or hottest?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (77:23)

Both. Both. Both. Sarah, how did you decide like how Feyre was going to maintain her autonomy in that type of relationship?

Sarah J. Maas (77:38)

I mean that should be just like a given thing in any relationship regardless of like who has power and what. And like I don't know. I'm not attracted to like my husband and I have been together actually since I was 18. For all my like crapping on like you know, like people should have multiple romantic partners. My husband was like my first and only boyfriend. Yeah. But like he. We are equals. We are partners in this. And like I don't like, I think I just demand that like the females in my books like have those relationships of like respect and like partnership. Just like, because that's what I demand like of myself and what I expect of myself and like that's what I have. That's the gift that I've been given is someone that like respects me and like honors me and like loves me and like the power dynamic thing, I'm like, you know, like I don't know, it's kind of like. I think it's like really kind of hot that like the super powerful dude like wants to get on his knees in front of this late. Like, like she is in control of him 100 but even that. But she doesn't want control over him. She wants a partner. Like she doesn't want like, you know, like they do have like a push pull of like sexy like who's in charge of what. But like they, they ultimately like they want a lover who is also like a best friend that like they can be equal with and speak to on an honest level.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (79:00)

I think the fans perception of Rhysand was really tested when he didn't clearly communicate the risks of what could happen in this pregnancy to her. What is your take on that?

Sarah J. Maas (79:12)

I mean Reese is entitled to like go through his own shit and make his own mistakes. And should he have told Feyre? Yes, but he was absolutely terrible. Like faced with like, like I don't know, like I just tried to decide like Rhys in that choice. Like he made a bad choice. I think like it was not the like Feyre was obviously upset. Like Nesta thought it was fucked up and like he. I love Rhys. Smoking hot. Like I love who he is beyond that. But, like, I think it's much more interesting for me as a writer to have him make perhaps a bad call and do it from a place of love and then, like, be able to reflect later being like, maybe I did, like, the thing here that, like, the ex boyfriend, like, also kind of did. And, like, that's not okay. And, like, what do I learn from it? Like, yeah, he's like 500 years old, but he's still learning. Yeah, like, he's never, like, been. Like, he's never been a mate husband. He's never had a pregnant mate. He's frantic. Like, he finds out she's been given a death sentence, but she's full of joy about it. And how do you be that person that takes the joy away? Like, how. How like. And Feyre would have wanted to know, but I can understand why Rhys didn't want to tell her, because there was just, like, he was so desperate to find us. Like, why stress her out until, like. Like, he was desperate for a solution and, like, no.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (80:44)

And you're right, it's so much more interesting to read from that perspective. Instead of like, oh, then I tell her and everything.

Sarah J. Maas (80:49)

Like, yeah, no, like, they need to have, like, issue. Like, they're. It's true love, their mates. But, like, they will. Like, they do have issues that they need to sort out. They have. They've come from very different backgrounds. They're still figuring out the dynamic. They're both navigating a whole new scenario. And, like, they can make mistakes. Both of them can make mistakes.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (81:07)

What do you think was the most romantic moment you wrote between Rhys and Feyre?

Sarah J. Maas (81:12)

Starfall. I think when, like, she gets, like, they get splattered with, like, the glitter or whatever. Like, I don't know, there's something about that. That scene always stands out for me. I love. Like, I still hear, like. Like, that scene was very much inspired by Florence and the Machine's cosmic love. And it's like, every time I, like, like, hear that song, I'm, like, taken back to, like, being at the House of Wind, like, seeing them. Yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (81:39)

How is it so crazy the way that chapter 55 has, like, everyone's like, chapter 55. Chapter 55. You're like, oh, my. Did you know, like, where. What was your headspace when you were writing that?

Sarah J. Maas (81:49)

I just was like, finally. They're finally, like, good. Like, I can't wait for this. Like, so I just, like. And. But, like, it was, like, such an emotional release because it was like, the buildup of the entire backstory that I, as the writer, had been waiting and waiting, waiting to finally, like, reveal. And, like, I got to get that out of my system and lay it all out there. And then, like, the consummation of that, and I just was like, this is everything. And this was so satisfying. So I was, like, crying, but then also just like, yeah, this is hot. It just was. But, like, I. And so for it to become, like, a thing, like, that actually means a lot to me because that was a scene that I had looked forward to writing for so, so long that when I. It finally came out of me, like, it's almost exactly, like, verbatim, like, the way it poured out of me, like, not much changed between, like, the initial version of that scene and the published one. So, like, it just means a lot that it connected. Like, it's become a thing. Oh, girl.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (82:40)

It hit. You mentioned mates and to just quickly go through that, because I'm. I don't know if we still have people that are listening that aren't familiar with the books. I would be shocked.

Sarah J. Maas (82:51)

You should be gone by now.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (82:52)

You should be gone. You should be gone. We're a little too in the weeds, but can you just quickly explain. Explain, like, what that means in the world? Mates.

Sarah J. Maas (82:59)

It's kind of like you're destined. True love, in a way, but it's complicated because there's a biological component to it where, like, you can be mated to someone that is, like, not actually your true loves. Like, there's, like, true, true mates, and then there's kind of like nature made a mistake made. Like, Reese's parents did not love each other. Like, it was not a great relationship, but they were mates. And it was like a. Like, there's a biological thing where they're like, we want to be together, but then it's like, we're miserable with each other, especially his mom. So it's like. It's tricky. But then when you find your perfect mate, like Rhys and Feyre Cassian nest, like, that is like the, like, last little piece of your soul that was, like, kind of a little broken and is now, like, you. You found your person.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (83:47)

But the rejecting of mates. Is Elaine rejecting the bond with Lucian?

Sarah J. Maas (83:55)

I think Elaine's got, like, her own trauma and that she's going through right now. I mean, like, imagine, like, being transformed into, like, a whole new body, a whole new lifestyle. Like, you are gone from, like, a. I don't know, in, like, the human world there, like, what, 60 years is a good life to suddenly, like, like, centuries, like, a millennium. Like the world looks very different and like, surprise. Like you've been like, forcibly like essentially married to like a stranger who also was like, involved in bringing you into this world and like, betraying you and like shoving you into the cauldron.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (84:30)

It's like a lot.

Sarah J. Maas (84:31)

She's pros. She's got a lot of shit that she's processing and so like exploring like a concept of a free will. Like, what does that look like with a mating bond? What? Like, what does that mean? And like, does nature like, get it wrong sometimes? Does it get it right sometimes? Like what? And like that again, like, as a writer I have to be like, very. I'm like, I like to like, find things that like, make me interested. Like, no, it's related to someone and like, you don't want to be mated. I'm like, like, what, what do you do? Like you're stuck with this person. Like, what? Like, what do you do? But like, I mean, the guy's like, hot. But it's like, what if it's not like, you don't know? Like, it's just. It's something that like, I really like, find to be an interesting concept versus like Feyre and Nesta, where it was so easy for them. Like nature picked. Right.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (85:17)

But I was thinking also when we were Talking about Chapter 55 and all the things like I. Is it true that your grandmother reads these books?

Sarah J. Maas (85:25)

Oh my God, yes. I don't know what's worse, my grandma or my mother in law reading them or your dad? My dad. Well, my dad at least has been like, we don't speak of this.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (85:36)

Okay, so he won't bring it up.

Sarah J. Maas (85:38)

No, but like.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (85:39)

But does he read it all?

Sarah J. Maas (85:40)

He used to. I feel like silver flames might have like broken him or he was like, this isn't for me anymore. Back to the newspaper, back to the New York Times. But yeah, my. My grandma reads them. Like everyone in her, like, I know she wouldn't like the term nursing home, but like her like old people's community reads them. And so I'm like, are you all getting like frisky like reading this? It's like she's 95 years old. She's amazing. She. She is like my number one like icon in my life. Oh my God. But like, she's gotten like all the people reading it.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (86:19)

Wait, does she ever give you feedback?

Sarah J. Maas (86:23)

No, but then like on the opposite end of that, my mother in law has like grilled me and been like, like, are like the sex scenes in this inspired by you and Josh? And I'm like, yeah. When I'm like your son, I am writing down notes. Would you like me to describe everything for you, Linda?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (86:40)

She's like, yes, actually.

Sarah J. Maas (86:42)

And I'm like, I'm like, no, no, no. I'm like, we don't talk about these things.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (86:46)

That is.

Sarah J. Maas (86:47)

It's more.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (86:49)

What are Grandma and Mother in Law's favorite series?

Sarah J. Maas (86:54)

I think. I don't know actually, for Grandma, I don't know. She's read like all of it. But like, I feel like my mother in law probably loves Acotar.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (87:04)

Does she love Rhysand?

Sarah J. Maas (87:06)

Yes. I think she like pretends that it's like Josh, even though it's not. He's not.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (87:11)

She's like, oh, Josh. Josh is like, no, mom, it's not me.

Sarah J. Maas (87:15)

No, no, it is not. The number of times I've had to say, like, it is not. He is not. They have both have dark hair and that's it. That's it. That's the only similarity.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (87:24)

I think that's so funny because, like, I have had that where people, because I have talked about sex on my platform, people feel comfortable to come up to me and talk about sex.

Sarah J. Maas (87:34)

Yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (87:34)

Have you had any, like, really wild interactions where people are. Whether they're asking details more about the character sex or they're asking you about sex?

Sarah J. Maas (87:47)

Oh, God. I'm trying to think of what I mean, like, I had a mother come up to me, like a like 50 something year old mother, and be like, I just want to say, like, my daughter loves your books and you've completely like revolutionized her sex life. And I was like, well, I'm sure she appreciates you telling me that you're like, amazing. I was like, I love that your daughter. But I also was like, I kind of love that you guys have this dynamic where like, you know about this.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (88:16)

Right.

Sarah J. Maas (88:17)

I'm like, I think that's really cool. But also like, I don't know what to say to you as the mother of this child who's.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (88:25)

Maybe though it is. So there's a weird thing. Maybe because it is fantasy. There is like, it kind of is the. It bridges the gap of just like episode three of Caller Daddy me being like, this is how you give head. And then like, meanwhile, with like Rhysand and Feyre and Tamlin, all these dynamic. It's a little bit more like, yeah, like it's. You can ease the blow when you find out that your mother or your sister or your friend is reading it.

Sarah J. Maas (88:52)

Yeah. You know, like, I actually learned probably more about sex from like books and stuff because it just seemed a lot less scary to me and felt like very safe and like connected to like things like plot in the world. And so like that was like how I like learned. Like I would not have like. So I think you're. I think you're absolutely right.

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Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (90:08)

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Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (91:49)

So you're in Los Angeles. Yes. You're here for Call Her Daddy?

Sarah J. Maas (91:55)

Yes.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (91:57)

But I need to ask you a pretty pointed question.

Sarah J. Maas (92:02)

Okay. I feel like you've, like, asked me a lot of intense questions, so I'm very eager to hear what you could be.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (92:07)

Okay. I think we need to address your Instagram post.

Sarah J. Maas (92:13)

Which one, Alex?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (92:14)

Well, Sarah, the one that quite literally lit the Internet on fire, where fans could not tell if it was an arrow or if it was a six to eight. Like, everyone has been freaking out. And so I have the pleasure of sitting across from you, and so I have to ask. Okay, Sarah, what is going on?

Sarah J. Maas (92:39)

Okay, well, first of all, I guess I have really shitty handwriting. Like, really shitty handwriting. If my, like, arrows and, like, numbers look messed up. Like, I'm ashamed of this. Like, that was not intentional at all. But I will say that that was ACOTAR6 with the arrow pointing forward to indicate, like, things going ahead of that. And it is for the next Acotar book, which is coming out on October 27th of this year. I've been working and working on that. It's been a long time coming. It's something that I. It took me a long time to write just because there were enough things going on in my life that I had to, like, sort through, and I had to, like. And again, like, I will talk about that perhaps in more detail. I've already cried once today.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (93:42)

Don't make me do it again, Alex.

Sarah J. Maas (93:43)

I don't. Yeah. Like, my makeup stayed intact. Let's not push it. But that it's taken a while, because it took me a while to find the right story and to be in the right head space. And then, like, what poured out of me was this. And it poured out, like, very quickly. I was in Montana this summer, and, like, I don't know. Like, I think there's like, some kind of, like, energy vortex, like, around Big sky, because, like, I just got there and, like, it clicked. It all came out of me. So, like, talking about, like, deadline, like, that's what I was Working on, like, I've been working on, like, this next project. I'm not going to tell you the title yet, but, like, it's. Or, like, cover any of that? No, like, I've seen. I've seen some of it and I'm.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (94:31)

Can you tell us length?

Sarah J. Maas (94:33)

I mean, it is. I mean, no, I don't want to say any. I feel like, ever. I mean, like, it's long. It's long.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (94:41)

You can't tell us whose POV it's from?

Sarah J. Maas (94:44)

No. And that was one of the, like, surprising things for me. And, like, writing this and, like, what came out, like, it's. I. You get a lot of, like, insight into, like, various things.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (94:53)

Like, it's okay, hold on, though, because if I know anything about you, you all, there's always a plot twist. You've always got something also that's like, oh, you thought this, but also this. So is there anything else you want to share here on Call Her Daddy today?

Sarah J. Maas (95:11)

Okay. Well, part of why, I guess it's tricky to talk about the length of this, this book is because this book's coming out October 27th, and then on January 12th, like, two months late, I can't do math, whatever that is, the next Acotar book will be coming out. So there will be two books within, like, a very short span. And what that means in giving you, like, a glimpse into this project. It's just the story that was finally ready to come out of me was big. Really, really, really big. And as I started writing this in, like, this, like, Montana, like, energy vortex, like, it came out of me in a way that surprised me. And by the time I reached, like, you know, I like to do, like, parts in my part one, Part two, Part three. By the time I got to, like, the end of part one, it was like 400 pages long. And there is a certain reality to books like Kingdom of Ash, like, had to be like, two pages because, like, the glue will not hold books together. But, like, what I was writing felt right. Like, that was what the story that needed to be told. And so I decided I wasn't going to approach this project from a, you know, traditional format of a book. And what if this story, like, what if this book was really fucking long? Like, what if it took me more than a thousand pages to tell the story that needed to be told, the arc that I wanted to create from start to finish? What if that took a long time? Like, what if that took beyond the constraints of a single volume? And what does that look like? How do I tell that story. And so part one was this huge, huge thing. And then I realized it was going to be four parts. A book told in four parts. So then I wrote part three, part two, and part three, and those were really fucking long. And so, like. And then part four is yet to be written because I'm. Right now I'm trying to just get part one, which is out in October, and then parts two and three, which will be out in January, is like one combined thing. So it's basically gonna be like three physical volumes, but it's like, one thing altogether. That, like, no amount of glue in, like, any publisher's, like, factory could ever, like, hold this. So it's meant to be read ideally as, like, one massive, massive story, as opposed to, like, in, like, a trilogy. It's not a trilogy. Like, arcs aren't, like, wrapped up. It's like, in the way, like, you know, you take my book. It's like, if you expanded all a part one, all a part two, all parts, like, all apart, like, it would be huge like that. And so I just decided, like, I've never told a story that way. This is how it wants to come out. Why do I have to be held back by the realities of, like, the glue that we need to hold, like, hold the pages in or just, like, placement on a shelf? And, like, how do I get this story out to my readers who've been waiting, like, so patiently, like, as soon as I can. Like, I could not live with the idea of, like, publishing part one and then being like, you got to wait, like, a year for, like, then I was like, no, like, I want that in everyone's hands. And so that's why we're doing, like, this, like, back to back release. So there's going to be, like, a lot of Acotar in a very short time. And then eventually, like, the conclusion will be, like, written, like, once. Once I get. I want to get these. Like, I don't want anyone to wait any longer. But it's like, it's a different. It's, you know, it's Acotar, but just. I'm telling it in a way that's exciting to me and, like, gives me, like, the space that the story demanded and the characters demanded.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (99:00)

Oh, yeah. I'm trying, and I'm sure everyone's trying to do this right now. I'm trying to rack my brain around, like, every Easter egg you just gave us of, like, who's what story needs to be told all of, like, the way that it's being formatted but, like, I cannot wait for October. I am so excited that you. Because the last time you came out was 2021 with the last Acatar.

Sarah J. Maas (99:29)

Yeah. Yeah. I think it was cobblestone. Oh, my God, that was so long.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (99:32)

I know.

Sarah J. Maas (99:32)

It's been. And that's. And that's why I was like, I'm not playing by anyone else's rules. Like, this is, like, I want. The most important thing for me is to write these stories the way they need to be told, but to also, like, honor my fans who, like, make all this possible. And, like, I'm not playing by, like, industry rules. I'm not playing by, like, marketing what I'm. I'm doing, like, what feels organic and, like, good for me and, like, my. My readership. And, like, I want to do it in a way that's fun and, like, we can all, like, have a great time, like, where it's just, like, the story will unfold, like, in the way it. Like, in the fat. In the way that I feel, like, would be the most fun to, like, for all of us, like, come together and be like, oh, like, what's going on?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (100:13)

And I am like, what the are you doing over there?

Sarah J. Maas (100:16)

Like, there's a lot of scheming happening.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (100:19)

And what was it like coming back to the Acotar series and, like, writing and getting your head in this?

Sarah J. Maas (100:25)

It was. It was obviously, like, hard. And again, there's, like, an element to it where I'm like, okay, like, shit. That was, like, tricky, like, unrelated to the books, but related to the books that I had to, like, navigate and, like, figure out. And I wasn't ever gonna force myself to write a book, because, like, that doesn't make a good book. But I'm also someone who, like, I take no shit from myself, or I'm like, if I feel like I have writer's block, I'm like, get your ass in the chair and work. But this was different. This was different. This wasn't, like, me, like, just wall. Like, this was. This was a level of, like, I needed to get some things sorted out first. And so this came out, like, when I was. When it was ready to come out, when I was ready. Like, when this right story hit me. Like, it hit me hard. And I had a vision from the start of, like, what it would be, how I would deliver it to you guys. And, like, that's what I want to do. And, like, getting to be in the driver's seat and decide, like, this is how I want to tell stories. And, like, if I want to adapt it for, like, every new book. Or, like, just, like, arc. I can do that. Like, I can. I can do that. And, like, why not? Like, why can't we tell? Like, why do we have to, like, stick to, like, these boxes of, like, this is how you tell a story from A to B. I'm like, no. Like, what if we do something different?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (101:42)

Like, I am like, what are you up to over there? I can't. Oh, my God. The theories are gonna go crazy. Oh, my God. I'm like, what? What did you do?

Sarah J. Maas (101:51)

Well, now I'm thinking that I'm just, like, I'm juggling editing two books at once. Two, like, massive, massive books at once. So I'm just like, you're in it. That's why I'm, like, pounding, like, Diet Cokes and coffee.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (102:02)

Okay, well, we're almost done. I. We are gonna end with some rapid fire, okay? And I don't know if you'll answer any of these, okay. But I'm gonna try, okay? Because I'm a fan, and I've gotta try for the girlies out there. Okay?

Sarah J. Maas (102:15)

Okay.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (102:15)

Okay.

Sarah J. Maas (102:15)

Okay.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (102:16)

So shut me down, but shut me down easy.

Sarah J. Maas (102:18)

Okay?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (102:18)

We're gonna start from the beginning. We're gonna start with a throne of glass. What did Lorcan do?

Sarah J. Maas (102:23)

Oh, someone explained this to me, like, the. Like, a couple months ago. I. I don't know. I. I didn't know how to feel about it then. I don't know how I feel about it now. I mean, like, maybe, like, bonus content and, like, surprise present, Christmas present sometime for all.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (102:42)

All y'. All. Okay. Where is Vaughn?

Sarah J. Maas (102:47)

You know, that's actually a thing that I think about a lot.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (102:50)

A lot.

Sarah J. Maas (102:51)

And that's all I'll say about that.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (102:53)

Okay. Is the settling the same or similar as the drop?

Sarah J. Maas (102:58)

I don't. I don't. You're asking. Okay, let's skip. Just skip. Just skip. Just go, go, go. Why?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (103:03)

You're like, skip. Just say skip. If you can't answer it, why did Aen have to lose her powers?

Sarah J. Maas (103:09)

I mean, I do think that, like, I actually really grappled with that one where I was like, I hate the idea of her having to give up something that she learned to love and embrace. But at the same time, like, I do think that, like, there needed. There needs to be some level of sacrifice when it comes to making a decision like, that big to give up something that you love for something else. Like, that's powerful. And I don't think it would. The ending would have Felt as deserved. But then I also think it opens up again in my, like, endless thinking about things, like, just in me as her creator and writing this. Like, what does it look like for her after that? You know, like, you go from like, all this power, then you give it up and like, how does that feel? Like, I just. I find that there was, like. Even with that as an ending, it felt like a different start of like, a journey for me. That just like, was fascinating for me.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (104:06)

I feel like people online have expressed frustration that some of the female characters, like her and Nesta, have had to sacrifice their powers and strength, while, you know, male characters have not. What is your response to that?

Sarah J. Maas (104:17)

Like, these books are about women coming into their power and. But also, like, taking away the magic doesn't take away from their strength. And I think, like, that's what, like, Nesta and Aylin realize is that, like, they're still fucking badasses. And I think that's why it's so easy for Nesta in the end, because she's like, I. This wasn't. That didn't define her. And she's still, like. She's still Nesta. And so, like, losing that, like, doesn't make you any less of a hero. Doesn't make you any less strong.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (104:50)

Love it.

Sarah J. Maas (104:51)

Yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (104:51)

Okay. Will we ever see our Throne of Glass characters again?

Sarah J. Maas (104:56)

I mean, obviously I've told. I think about them all the time, so who knows?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (104:59)

There's gotta.

Sarah J. Maas (104:59)

If my children let me sleep in past 5am sure.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (105:02)

Perfect. Kids. Come on, Josh, get it together. Where is Manon now? I mean, is she working to rebuild the waste? Like, what are we doing?

Sarah J. Maas (105:11)

I mean, she's. Honestly, she should be in therapy. Okay? That's where she is right now. Let's assume she's in therapy because she went through a lot, a lot.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (105:23)

What happened to the world of Throne of Glass book? Will that ever be released?

Sarah J. Maas (105:27)

That wound up being a project that I wanted. I. I thought would be easy. And then I realized, like, no, like, I need to actually, like, I. This means a lot to me and I need to dedicate a lot of time, but I don't have that time because I want to focus on getting these books, the actual books out. So maybe that's something that I like. It's still something I want to do, but maybe it comes at a different time.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (105:48)

All right, Acotar, why is there a pool of starlight in the spring court? Is it a portal?

Sarah J. Maas (105:56)

Who thinks of these things? You? I mean, I do. I do. Look at that piece Read too closely. I don't know. I don't. I'm not answering it. Okay, I'm not answering that.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (106:07)

Okay. How do Fay get into the House of Wind? Because they don't have wings. Like, do they climb the stairs?

Sarah J. Maas (106:14)

This might be something that you find out.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (106:18)

Okay. What is Rhysand's last name?

Sarah J. Maas (106:22)

I'm not telling anyone. There's so much pressure now.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (106:25)

Does it even matter?

Sarah J. Maas (106:27)

No, I mean, like, he's one of one. Okay. Right.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (106:30)

What is the King of Hybern's actual name?

Sarah J. Maas (106:32)

Fred. Frank. Frank.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (106:35)

Actually, yeah, because that.

Sarah J. Maas (106:36)

Actually, that actually might be something that we could find out that is discussed.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (106:42)

Okay. What are Moore's powers?

Sarah J. Maas (106:44)

Like? Truth.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (106:45)

Truth.

Sarah J. Maas (106:46)

But you, like, have other powers beyond that. But I don't. I'm not going to reveal any more about. There might be more about that.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (106:54)

Hey, I'm just trying to get things out of you.

Sarah J. Maas (106:55)

You know what? Everything is possible. Everything you're asking me right now could just be like, yes, the answer is yes. You'll find out.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (107:02)

Okay, can you tell us anything about the Desk Court? And are you going to explore any of it in your next book?

Sarah J. Maas (107:13)

Yeah. But you have to know, like, what do you want me to say, Alex? What do you want me to say here?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (107:18)

I love you.

Sarah J. Maas (107:18)

What do you want me to say?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (107:20)

Okay, okay, okay. We're moving on. I just. If anything, I'm just getting pleasure out of asking. You don't even need to answer. Okay, tell me if I'm pronouncing this right. Where did Rye Axis go?

Ad Voice (107:29)

Good.

Sarah J. Maas (107:30)

That was good. Thank you. I mean, where do you think she went? What do you think she is up to? I mean, fear itself. What is that? Like, where does that go?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (107:42)

Who is Mama Archeron? Is she a descendant of the Iron Teeth witches? You're like. You're putting me.

Sarah J. Maas (107:52)

Is there like an alcoholic drink here?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (107:54)

I feel like. That's what I feel like. I need wine.

Sarah J. Maas (107:56)

I need. I need a spicy margarita. Okay.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (107:58)

We're going to Crescent City.

Sarah J. Maas (107:59)

Okay.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (108:00)

We never saw the body. So is Cormac actually dead?

Sarah J. Maas (108:04)

Where did you find these questions?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (108:07)

All of me and my friends putting this together be like, this is the time of our life.

Sarah J. Maas (108:10)

I. I can like, see you with, like. Like string and, like, putting things and being like my husband.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (108:16)

Like, what's this episode? I'm like, don't worry about it. What isn't it exactly are. Bryson Hunt. Endgame.

Sarah J. Maas (108:23)

Yes. What? I don't. Where does that.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (108:25)

How could the. Well, there are a lot of theories that Bryce's true mate Is Asriel. Is there any truth to that?

Sarah J. Maas (108:30)

No. I can. I can tell you. Right. I'm sorry. To anyone that's shipped that. And it's, like, been, like, ride or die with that. But, like, no, it's Bryce and Hunt. Okay.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (108:41)

How did the Book of Breathings and the Walking Dead end up in Jesiba's library?

Sarah J. Maas (108:46)

I don't know. You'll have to stay tuned for answers.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (108:50)

There are a lot of theories that Rhys and Run are related. Can you confirm or deny? You're, like, off. You can say off.

Sarah J. Maas (109:01)

I'm not saying that I like you. I'm not gonna. Okay, fair.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (109:03)

Is Maeve related to any of them?

Sarah J. Maas (109:05)

I mean, look, what? Like, I feel like I should just hand over my notebooks to you, and you can, like, comb through them for, like, all the little comebacks that I've made.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (109:12)

Yeah. Okay. I have to ask. Why are there otters in Crescent City?

Sarah J. Maas (109:17)

Why aren't there otters? It's like, their otters are one of my favorite animals. Like, I lose my, like, river otters, sea otters. I don't know why I lose it. And so I just was like, what's the cutest thing that, like, an otter could do? And it's, like, kind of like an aquatic, like, you know, like, city. Like, what if otters were just, like, messengers with their little palms handing letters?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (109:39)

I love that you're like, I just put it in there because I like it.

Sarah J. Maas (109:42)

It just sounded cute to me. Okay. It just sounded cute.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (109:45)

Okay. Who or what is Fury, Aaron? Is she the mercenary that Feyre met in the first Acotar?

Sarah J. Maas (109:53)

Okay, these are, like. Again, these questions that are, like. You're asking me things that I'm not sure if I could. Should confirm or deny or just, like, let.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (110:04)

Let people.

Sarah J. Maas (110:04)

Am I ruining people's dreams by answering these things? I don't know.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (110:09)

We've all seen the now deleted Twilight of the Gods Pinterest board.

Sarah J. Maas (110:14)

Really?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (110:15)

What's going on there?

Sarah J. Maas (110:17)

That was just, like, a story that I like. It was kind of like Crescent City, where, like, I always have, like, manuscripts and other stories in my head. Like, I think I have probably, like, three or four, like, unpublished full books for, like, different series, like, on my computer that just, like, I don't know if they'll ever see the light of day. But, like, sometimes I just get a story in my head and, like, I want to start writing it, and, like, I, like, get, like, ideas for it, and it comes out, and sometimes I want to share that with the world and Sometimes I don't.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (110:48)

Okay, who would win in a fight? Bryce, Aylin, Feyre, or Manon?

Sarah J. Maas (110:54)

They wouldn't fight. They would all be like, this is dumb. We should support each other, and let's go get, like, in and out burger together.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (111:02)

Okay. You obviously are in a success and, like, a league of your own. You've had just, like, such an incredible career already. And I know we've talked about the pressures and also the beauty of it. How do you define success at this point in your career?

Sarah J. Maas (111:20)

I mean, for me, it's two things. Success is two things. One, it's getting to tell the stories that I want to tell, how and when I want to tell them. That's a gift.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (111:33)

That's a.

Sarah J. Maas (111:33)

That's a wonderful blessing to have. That's all I ever wanted from when I was a kid. But it's also like, am I happy? Am I happy in my life doing this? Am I, like, what is the balance? And, like, have I. Like, do I feel successful in that? Do I feel like I'm able to create from a place of joy and curiosity and excitement while also having a life that is, like, fulfilling and fun and, like, I get to be a mom to these two incredible kids and, like, a wife to, like, an awesome husband. Like. And, like, what? Like that. Having that and finding joy from that, from things outside of my books, that feels successful to me. Like, I've built something beautiful completely unrelated to that.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (112:22)

But, yeah, it is so beautiful. And also, like, what is so cool, too, is, like, you have completely changed the way that people think about romantasy books, and you have given essentially legitimacy, I feel, like, to an entire genre that was either dismissed or overlooked at one point. How do you feel about your legacy in the literary world?

Sarah J. Maas (112:44)

This is gonna sound like, silly, and you probably, like, won't believe me, but just, like, talking about things like legacy is, like, beyond for me. When I started writing, when I started trying to get published, I told myself, like, you know, anytime I got a rejection, you know, I was rejected by every single agent except one. Every single publisher except one. And those times I told myself it didn't matter if it took me until I was 90 years old to publish a book, if it wasn't the book I was trying to get published, I'd write the next one and the next one and the next one until it happened. And so, like, I was willing to have a life where, like, just one book eventually made it. And that's was like. And that still was kind of like, that was the dream and so everything else beyond then has been insane. Like insane to me because I'm still very much that like girl in middle school or high school, like sneaking off to like watch anime or like drool over Legolas and like getting to go like play in these worlds in my head and like do the thing that like makes me come alive every day is like, like, that's incredible. And so like talking about like these books going beyond that and meaning something and like playing whatever role they have and like letting other similar books, like get out there and like, be appreciated and those like authors be appreciated like that, that's all. Like, I, I just like, I feel very, very blessed, very humbled. Like, I, I love that people are reading, like, people like, I mean, as a kid I just wanted someone to read my and be like, it's good. Like, that's all I wanted.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (114:27)

I also think it's such a great, inspiring story because someone like you, again, like a lot of times we get the success stories, right? You're sitting here and you're so well known and you've had such, such success. But a lot of people could be sitting right now watching this being like, I've wanted to be a writer or I've wanted to be whatever it be and, and when you are told no so many times, that can be depleting. And the fact that you are where you are today, even though people looked at you being like, you're insane, this isn't going to work. You had people in jobs look at you and roll their eyes about writing fantasy, right? And look at the empire that you've built. Like, what an incredible testimony to women listening of like, if anything, I genuinely believe that when people are telling you that you're crazy for wanting to start something or do something and they're all looking at you kind of cross eyed, that is like your first indicator that you're on to something incredible.

Sarah J. Maas (115:23)

Oh yeah. Anytime someone told me I couldn't do something, I would say, watch me. Just watch me.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (115:30)

You said you're like, I'll send the book one day.

Sarah J. Maas (115:32)

Yeah. Yeah.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (115:33)

Where, where are they now?

Sarah J. Maas (115:34)

Yeah, where are they now? And just like, I don't know, like I wrote the thing that I love. Like I wrote the stuff that I love that I've always loved. And like, I was always flabbergasted that anyone, especially like older adults, would tell like a young person, like, like, it's not worth your time, it will never happen. I'm like, why can't we all be supportive of our dreams and like, but thankfully, like, I knew what I wanted. Like, I knew this is what I wanted to do, and so there was nothing that was going to stop me from that. But I also was willing to, like, if it took me till I was 90, that was just what I want. Just one book that came out when I was 90 years old. Like, that would have been wonderful.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (116:13)

And look how many you have. And more to come.

Sarah J. Maas (116:15)

And more to come.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (116:16)

I cannot thank you enough for sitting down with me. I. I'm sure you can feel I could have kept going. Like, I have.

Sarah J. Maas (116:23)

No, I could say I'm very comfortable right now.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (116:25)

Like, I have so many questions. There's so many, like, world building questions and character arcs. And I recognize I was trying to do a balance of getting to know you, also getting into your psyche. I. And I think we. We found a good balance of the themes in your life that have inspired some of these incredible worlds and characters. But it was really fun to sit down with you because I've been a fan from afar, and now getting to sit with you, I feel even more invested, weirdly. And I'm like, now I need to go back and read all of these before October. No pressure.

Sarah J. Maas (117:00)

I'm glad that I didn't, like, disappoint you. And you were like, she was the worst and, like, the most.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (117:04)

If anything, I don't want you to lie when we turn up the cameras, like, oh, and one more question. Another question, Another question.

Sarah J. Maas (117:08)

I'm going to Montana. You want to come to Montana?

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (117:11)

We're going to Montana.

Sarah J. Maas (117:12)

I'll show you the. The vortex where everything.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (117:14)

Where you wrote it all.

Sarah J. Maas (117:15)

Yes. I'll show you the magic vortex.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (117:18)

Sarah, thank you so much for coming on caller. Daddy was an honor.

Sarah J. Maas (117:21)

It was actually an honor. I mean, like, we talked about, like, me and, like, like, what you have done. Like, again, like, my friends don't give a shit about me. I mean, like, they do. They're proud of me. But, like, me coming on here, like, this was a big, big deal for them. And, like, thank you for making me feel cool.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (117:40)

You are cool.

Sarah J. Maas (117:41)

I. I don't know about. I mean, you are cheaters.

Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (117:45)

You are literally so cool, and you are building worlds. I don't. That all of us are obsessed with. I don't know what could be a cooler job. Like, what you have in your brain has made all of us into this insane fandom, like, bow down to you. Great. I love it. Oh, great work.

Alex Cooper (118:15)

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Sarah J. Maas (119:19)

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Sarah J. Maas (119:26)

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Interviewer (Call Her Daddy Host) (119:33)

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