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Car Stuff Podcast
Accord Outback Coming, Honda Prelude Review, EV Owners Survey
01:01:55
The hosts welcome Dave Thomas of CDK Global to the podcast. Dave shares insights gleaned from a number of research projects conducted by CDK, including an owner study which suggests that EV operators are far happier with their vehicles than is commonly understood.
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- [00:01]
A
Hey guys, lady luck here. Are you going on any road trips this summer? I know I'm going to be going on a bunch of road trips.
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B
And being that I'm going to be
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B
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A
Hey, it's your ceiling vent. So I'm dripping. Could be the rain, could be the upstairs bathroom. Yikes. You could hire the guy your neighbor recommended, but I'm pretty sure that's just his cousin. Do we know if he's licensed or does he just own a ladder?
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B
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C
We know homes hire the right pro today. Every team, every topic, everywhere. This is believe.
- [01:10]
B
Whether you drive a car, need a car, or just occasionally bum a ride with friends, you've come to the right place. Join Jill and Tom as they break down everything that's going on in the auto world. New car reviews, shopping tips, driving green electric cars, classic cars, and plenty of great guests. This is the Consumer Guide Car Car Stuff podcast.
- [01:31]
C
All right. This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast. I am Tom Appel, publisher of Consumer Guide Automotive. Thank you for joining us this week. When you have a chance, check us out@consumerguide.com and. And that's all I have to say on the topic. With me as always, Jill Simonello. She is contributing editor here@consumerguide.com North American Car of the year juror and prolific freelancer. Jill, how are you?
- [01:58]
A
I'm doing. I think I'm doing okay. I think I'm doing okay today.
- [02:02]
C
I have the weirdest sense of not having spoken to you in a long time, though. It's been the usual week.
- [02:08]
A
Yes.
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C
So I don't know what the deal is there.
- [02:11]
A
Your week was really long then and you missed me.
- [02:14]
C
I'm getting compliments on the Jamie Butters episode.
- [02:18]
A
Ah, yay.
- [02:19]
C
I think people just like Jamie's insights.
- [02:22]
A
Well, he's so good, so I hope
- [02:24]
C
his show does well. That's Auto Town. Yes, people should check that out. So, crazy week, Lots of interesting news and I've got a story here. I'm sure you heard the story. It's a rumor.
- [02:39]
A
Okay.
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C
At this point, but there's way too many details for this to be a rumor. But Honda is denying this. Are you ready?
- [02:49]
A
I'm ready.
- [02:50]
C
Apparently Honda is considering a lifted Accord in the style of the Subaru Outback. Yeah, well, you're shaking your head.
- [03:00]
A
Well, no, I'm just like, I'm having flashbacks of the Honda Accord Cross Tour. And I'm just like, no, no. Just.
- [03:08]
C
No, you should, you should have flashbacks of that. Because I have a question to ask you about this in a moment. And I was going to bring up the Cross Tour. The Cross Tour was a Wagony fastback version of the Accord. And they did say.
- [03:23]
A
Again, I said egg like. It was very egg like.
- [03:26]
C
Yeah, it was not. It was not good looking. It was not good looking, but it was interesting looking. And they did make some effort to make it look a little bit crossovery. Right. It did have a. Would appear to be an elevated ride height. They did beef up the bumpers and I think it was the first Accord ever offered any Accord in any form in the US with all wheel drive.
- [03:50]
A
Yeah.
- [03:51]
C
So there was that. It did not sell well.
- [03:54]
A
Yeah. Didn't they only have like two model years or something?
- [03:56]
C
Two model years of refresh and then three more model years. But after that refresh, sales fell off a cliff. So 2010 was its best year, almost 30,000 units. But its last model year, 2015, it only did 9,000 units. And we're talking about a version of the Accord which was a huge selling vehicle.
- [04:16]
A
Yes.
- [04:17]
C
Now, along these lines, Buick thought they could do something with this too. Do you remember the Regal Tour X?
- [04:26]
A
Oh, I loved that car. Yes, I do remember it.
- [04:30]
C
That was way better looking than this, than the Cross Tour. Very nice vehicle. A little premium. It cost more than a Subaru Outback. But it also had a lot going for it. Cool. It looked cool with roof racks, V6 power. There was just a lot there to like. And they couldn't give them away. Yeah, they couldn't sell that. So the question I have for you. Okay, the question I have for you is, is the crossover wagon thing something that anyone cares about it or is it a uniquely Subaru thing?
- [05:03]
A
Oh, that could be a uniquely Subaru thing, to be honest, because I, you know, the running joke in the automotive industry is give us a wagon with a manual transmission and make it brown. And only auto enthusiasts would buy it. But all of the auto enthusiast would buy it.
- [05:20]
C
It's funny you should say that. I actually did the photography over the weekend of the BMW M5 Cross. I'm sorry, Touring.
- [05:28]
A
Okay.
- [05:28]
C
Which was a station wagon version of the M5, something people have been begging for. I don't know how well it's selling, but it's a thing that auto journalists have been clamoring for forever because we love station wagons. It's a weird auto journalist thing, but this Honda is super interesting. It would be available with all wheel drive. It would be available with a hybrid drivetrain, which is a plus. And it would give Accord loyalists something to buy, I think. So the issue is either it needs to be a Subaru or it needs to look more like a wagon. Either way, the first cross tour seems to have failed on both counts.
- [06:07]
A
Yeah, yeah. I just, I mean it could have been a little bit before its time because that was right from the time that like BMW came out with the X6 and, and that was like the beginning of the egg shape cross over looking lifted sedan things. And so, so I, you know, it just could have been ahead of its time because you had the, the ZDX from Acura that was out at the same time.
- [06:35]
C
I was just going to mention the ZDX because that was a sales disaster.
- [06:39]
A
Yeah.
- [06:41]
C
Which is a shame because it's actually a nice car. It was just an Acura MDX made slightly less useful by a fastback roofline.
- [06:50]
A
Right.
- [06:51]
C
All right, so that's coming out maybe for the N 2030 model year maybe. And hokey schmuckels, 2030. Where did, where did the last few decades go?
- [07:01]
A
I'm just trying to figure out how. We're already in August. Like where did the last couple of months go?
- [07:07]
C
So that happened. This one not being denied by the manufacturer. Maybe you saw this, the Audi Q9.
- [07:15]
A
Yes. They just had the reveal.
- [07:17]
C
Talk about that.
- [07:19]
A
You know, it's all new from Audi. It's their largest suv. And I, I know that they just did a big reveal for it in New York. There haven't been any drive programs or driving impressions or anything of it, but you know, they recognize that there is a need for larger SUVs. People are buying them. So you know, if you build it, they will come. So I haven't, I haven't seen it in person, but I mean, it doesn't seem like a bad idea.
- [07:50]
C
It seems like secretly the Mercedes Benz GLS and the BMW 7 Series have been selling well. And not only do they sell well, they're expensive as hell.
- [08:02]
A
You mean the X7.
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C
What?
- [08:04]
A
Did I say 7 series?
- [08:06]
C
I meant X7. Thank you. Yeah. The 7 series is a car. The X7 is a big crossover. But they make a lot of money for the manufacturer.
- [08:14]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [08:15]
C
And people seem to want those. And those. Those are different, I think to me than the Navigator and the Escalade in that they're a little bit smaller, a little bit tidier, and they're more like the. And it was there first the Lexus G. Lexus lx.
- [08:34]
A
Right, right.
- [08:35]
C
Is right there too.
- [08:36]
A
Right.
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C
Although the lx. Does the LX have a third row? Yep, it does. Okay, so it is really basically the same thing.
- [08:45]
A
Or do you mean the tx?
- [08:47]
C
No, no, the lx. The big body on frame.
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A
Okay.
- [08:52]
C
I just drove that nice vehicle. I just said goodbye to it. So that's going on sale, I think in 2027. Two models are just going Q9 with a turbocharged V6 and an SQ9 with a bunch of turbocharged V8. 591 horsepower. So watch for that. We do have pricing. Pricing starts at 90 grand. So there's your profit right there. Dealers will be happy to sell these.
- [09:17]
A
Yeah. And I think it's going to be on sale by the end of the year, but as a 2027 model also.
- [09:23]
C
I used to follow these more closely, but Volkswagen. Audi is a division of Volkswagen likes to name its platforms. Do you remember what this platform is called? This might be the first. First use of it. Premium platform combustion. Yeah, that just slides off the tongue.
- [09:44]
A
Yes.
- [09:47]
C
All right. Speaking of luxury car makers and having fun in luxury cars, we have now seen the GV60, the Genesis GV60. Magma.
- [09:57]
A
Yes.
- [09:58]
C
Magma being their new premium lineup. A little bit like Cadillac V Series, BMW M and Mercedes Benz amg. This is the first Magma and it's based on Genesis's Genesis. The Genesis, the slowest selling Genesis vehicle, the GV60, which is their very small electric crossover, which is an absolute joy to drive. Even not in Magma trim. But the Magma, that's the real name, the magma. 641 horsepower, 0 to 60 in 3.4 seconds. And then confusingly, confusingly, it starts around 71 grand. This is confusing because there's already a vehicle in the lineup called the Performance, which starts at almost 74 grand. So they might drop the Performance. It might have been really slow selling or something like that, but we'll see. That's for next year. But I like the GV60. I don't know why they're starting with an electric vehicle. Maybe just a really slow ramp up. Because this Genesis had a hard time selling electric cars.
- [11:02]
A
Yeah. Because they had the. What is it? The GV70. Electrified and I Don't know that they're continuing with that. Then they had the G90. I think electrified or G80 sedans was electrified.
- [11:20]
C
And it was a very nice car.
- [11:23]
A
They've all been nice cars. I really thoroughly have enjoyed all of the electric vehicles from Genesis. But yeah, the, the, the. They just don't seem to be selling well. And it's been a couple of years since I've driven the GV60. So I'm going to be very curious to see when the Magma comes out, because I like that car.
- [11:46]
C
Yeah. Hopefully they get that distributed to everybody quickly because I want to drive that. Yeah.
- [11:51]
A
I know they did a press program in Korea, so there are some media that have already driven it. So I think there are some drive impressions already out there.
- [12:02]
C
I haven't seen these, and maybe I wasn't looking when Genesis was doing Magma concept cars, they were all that crazy orange color. Do we know if that orange color is going to make it to production?
- [12:13]
A
Oh, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure, yeah.
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C
Okay. Because that's, that's exciting. I want to see those on the road.
- [12:20]
A
I. Yes, I will. I like crazy, you know, cool colors. Except for maybe that fluorescent yellow that they started with on the GV60 that I didn't love. But the orange, the orange I do like. So my.
- [12:36]
C
I told you. I was just working on my pictures of the. The BMW M5, and my, my retinas are still searing from the red, orange interior. It's insane. And it's actually difficult to process these pictures because of the crazy color difference. Oh, my God. All right, so there's that. Now, you. Speaking of interesting performance vehicles, you just spent some time with the 2026 Honda Prelude.
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A
I did.
- [13:03]
C
And Preludes, a name with a lot of history, and Honda has screwed with that history.
- [13:09]
A
Oh. And people are very angry about it.
- [13:12]
C
The Prelude was always based on the Accord. That is no longer the case. But tell us about the car.
- [13:17]
A
Yeah. So, I mean, new for this model year, it is a hybrid only powertrain, and it is based off of the Civic now. And this is the first time the, the Prelude has been based on a Civic. So it's a more compact vehicle.
- [13:30]
C
Heresy.
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A
Heresy. And does not offer a manual transmission because it's a hybrid. And it is. I don't know. I think it looks really good. I had it in that boost.
- [13:42]
C
I think it looks good.
- [13:44]
A
And you know, the, it, it just. I think it looks sporty. And with the hybrid powertrain, I, it feels sporty to me. And especially you have some Drive modes that you can shift through and the transmission on this vehicle and it's not really a transmission, it's a direct shift where like you, there is no like step to gear shift. There is no cvt. I think some people have been calling it ec an ecvt. It's not that, you know, I think
- [14:15]
C
CVT covers it, but it's a planetary gear set and I think this is very similar to what's actually in the Prius.
- [14:22]
A
I don't, I don't think so actually.
- [14:24]
C
No, it's different because we call that. There was also the Chevrolet Volt I think used a, an electric motor based planetary gear set. Not really a cvt, but same effect.
- [14:37]
A
Yeah, I mean it's a single gear. There is no like circle pulley, any of that stuff that goes with an ecvt. And the power goes directly to the wheels. The other thing that I think is really interesting about this powertrain is the fact that when you are driving around town it operates a lot more like an electric vehicle because the engine shuts off and the motors are powering the wheels. And when the engine comes back on, it's not powering the wheels, it's powering a generator that goes back to the battery that's powering the wheels. So it's, it's kind of, it's almost like, like a plug in hybrid or an EREV without having the plug in. And then when you're driving at highway speeds there's like a shift that happens and then the gasoline engine feeds the wheels. So it's just, I mean I'm not an engineer here but to me it's kind of a, an engineering marvel of how they put it together. And this is not unique to the, to the, to the Prelude. I believe the CRV and the Civic Hybrid also have the same system, but I just, I think it's interesting and you know, it's one of those things I like to geek out of or out about because it's just, it's a little bit outside of my wheelhouse and it's very technical. But it's just kind of a cool thing that this works the way it does.
- [15:58]
C
We're going to be seeing more of similar drivetrains. Nissan's bringing out their E power setup which is similar. Do you know what is the advantage of this drivetrain or just not having a transmission? Is it just weight savings?
- [16:12]
A
You know, I think it's weight savings. I think it's a little bit fuel economy. You know, it gets 46 miles per gallon in the city 41 miles per gallon on the, on the highway and you know and so that right there is again very telling that that on the highways when the engine kicking in and, and having more of a role with the motivations the wheels. But I just, I thought this was really kind of a fun car to drive. I think it looks cool. I got a lot of head turns and especially in that boost blue color. I mean the, the really the biggest complaint that I have is they just shouldn't have put a back seat in this vehicle because it's completely pointless. I like I can't, I can't even fit back there and I'm five feet tall. Like I, and, and that would be designed for me. I got back there and like essentially sticking out the window and anytime you would like I wasn't in the car while it was moving because I'm the driver but while I was sitting back there like my head was hitting the inside of the window so there, and there are no headrests. And so it just, I know everybody's like well they're doing that for insurance purposes. But Alex Dykes, I don't know if you know him Alex on Autos or it used to be Alex on Autos and he changed the name and I completely blanking on the name at the moment. But he's, he's a great auto reviewer and he is so steeped in information and he actually commented on one of my posts that the whole, you know, two plus two putting a back seat in for the insurance purposes is a complete urban legend. He said he talked to like the insurance agency or whatever. He talked to somebody and they're like that's a complete urban legend. That is not actually, you know, saving you any money. So I don't, I don't know why Honda put a back seat in the back of this car because it's completely pointless.
- [18:03]
C
Well, not having a rear seat is a big barrier to sell for some people. They want to be able to fold up a drunk friend and stuff them in the back seat.
- [18:11]
A
Yeah, they have to capitated. So I just, it's completely unsafe and I just, it's pointless.
- [18:17]
C
But we see this with, with three way crossovers, three row crossovers too. Even if the third row is almost useless. They help sell vehicles because people think they're going to help in an emergency. So I get why they did it. Also, we always cheat when we call cars sports cars or not sports cars. By the technical, technical definition the Porsche 911 has a backseat.
- [18:41]
A
Just saying, yeah, it's probably better than this.
- [18:45]
C
Probably.
- [18:46]
A
I mean I like, I literally just posted on my Instagram and tick tock and YouTube a video of me getting into the back seat. So you should go check that out. It has 500, 000 views on TikTok right now.
- [19:00]
C
The, the interesting thing about this vehicle is it's much more expensive than the Honda Civic Coupe which has been discontinued. So this starts around 42 grand. A little expensive, but very sporty. Legendary heritage name. Good looking vehicle, Fun to drive but not, not fast and not. I'm reading that it's not super fun to drive. It's, it's sporty, it's sporty.
- [19:27]
A
I mean it's not like Porsche fast or sporty, but it is, it is fun to drive. And you know, I, I feel that Honda can justify the price tag because it does have. It's all in like, it's mono spec. There are really no options other than the paint. I think the Boost Blue was like an extra option, but that was it. So essentially $43,000. You are all in on this. With Google built in, Google Maps, Apple Wireless, Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. Like the really nice material in the front seat that like the one I had had blue and white like material, it was like. I don't know if it was actually leather or leatherette, but it was a really nice touch. And the embossing and the, you know, this reverse stitching and the. I, I thought that, I thought it was worth $42,000 and I know that's very unpopular to say.
- [20:20]
C
Interesting. Did it have air conditioning?
- [20:22]
A
You know what, it even had really, really good air conditioning.
- [20:26]
C
I mentioned air conditioning. I was having a conversation online on X today and we were talking about the Kia Rondo for people who remember that vehicle. And I believe the Rondo was the last vehicle sold in the US that did not have standard air conditioning. That also started at 19 grand, which is kind of affordable for a people mover. And the funny thing was Kia was like, well, we expect to sell a lot of these in the Northeast. And back when air conditioning was optional, the take rate was very low in the Northeast.
- [20:58]
A
Right.
- [20:59]
C
And obviously it was like 100% in Florida, but like 47% in Maine. So there you have it. All right, so you like the car?
- [21:07]
A
I did. I liked it.
- [21:08]
C
All right, we're going to take a break. When we come back, we talk to Dave Thomas of CDK Global who's got a lot of different research the company has been doing to talk about. And one of the things is they talked about was electric car owners and how happy they are with their cars. All right, stick around.
- [21:26]
B
Questions or comments, Drop us a line@carstuffinsumerguide.com that's carstuffinsumerguide.com. Welcome back to the Car Stuff podcast.
- [21:45]
C
And we're back. This is the consumer guide Car Stuff podcast. I am Tom. She is Jill.
- [21:50]
A
Yes, Jill.
- [21:51]
C
Have I asked you how you are yet?
- [21:53]
A
I think you did, and I think I said it was okay.
- [21:55]
C
You're doing all right.
- [21:56]
A
I think. I think. I think I'm doing all right.
- [21:59]
C
For reasons I'm not clear on. I'm losing my voice, but it's holding out.
- [22:04]
A
You talk too much. That's why you're losing your voice.
- [22:07]
C
We know that's true. We know that's true. All right, we have an old friend on the phone actually on the line. You can see him if you're watching us on YouTube. Dave Thomas. He is director of content management at CDK Global. Dave, how are you?
- [22:21]
B
I'm doing great, Tom. Thanks for having me.
- [22:23]
C
We've had you on before at least once, maybe twice. And I believe we were talking then, as we will today, about research that you guys do. Tell us a little bit about CDK Global, what you guys do, and about these research projects that you work on.
- [22:38]
B
Sure. So CDK is kind of known as one of the largest software suppliers to car dealers and automakers in North America. So everything that a car dealership runs on to sell or service vehicles, we produce in terms of the software behind it. So that's what the company does. And then in terms of our thought leadership and our research that we put out, I'm in charge of taking all the great work our research team does and creating reports and interesting findings that we can share with both our dealer customers, but also with the industry at large, because so much of it is obviously tied to the consumer.
- [23:13]
C
I think a thing. I want to talk about CDK for a moment, and I think a thing that people don't consider when they think about a car dealership is how unbelievably complex that organization is. There are so many things that need to be tied together. So when you guys sell software, I assume that you bundle everything together in sort of a single package for. For dealerships that really want to integrate everything.
- [23:37]
B
Yes, we. We do it however a dealer will want it. Obviously, we. We. We have, you know, we. We sell suites, and then, you know, for the front office, which is for sales, and then even the back office with the accounting. So ever Even, even closing the books is done on CDK software, then you can buy all the software you need for fixtops in the service department or you could just get all of it and just be on CDK as the entire dealership on cdk.
- [24:05]
C
Are you guys also supplying the like the AI interaction on the consumer side of the operation?
- [24:13]
B
We have a lot of AI baked into our, our products and a lot of, obviously the most popular or well known right now are like the AI chat bots that you talk to. And whether that's a text message you get from a dealer after sending a lead or a phone. Yes, that's, we do that as well.
- [24:33]
C
I'm trying to get people to do something and I think I'm the only one doing it. If you are at a dealership website and, and the bot approaches you tell them you're looking for a diesel powered wagon with a manual transmission or better yet a kerosene powered wagon. It will get back to you and ask you for information. But no one from the store ever calls you.
- [24:55]
B
They might be on to you. Tom.
- [24:58]
C
So let's talk about your electric customer research. This is interesting stuff by the way, the presentation, your top line presentation, really good looking.
- [25:07]
B
Thank you.
- [25:08]
C
Before I forget, tell us how people can go and look at this stuff.
- [25:11]
B
Yeah. All of our reports and blogs are housed on cdk.com insights and this EV ownership study should be about halfway down the page. We do produce about 10 or about almost a dozen a month of different blogs and reports. So there's always stuff happening@cdk.com insights cool.
- [25:31]
C
So here's my primary takeaway. I looked at that. It's one of the first numbers in the thing. I think it's the most important number of the people. Of almost 600 people you surveyed, 90% of these electric car owners said they would consider another electric car. Yeah.
- [25:49]
B
Yeah. And, and when we say consider, I, I don't even think it's considered. They, they really are planning to buy another car. Another.
- [25:56]
C
Wow.
- [25:57]
B
Yeah. So it's, and, and then some of the other questions we ask about going back to gas, those numbers really fell this year. So it, it seems like each year this study, this is the third year owners get a little more entrenched in EV technology. So like the number, you know, from 89 or 82 to 90 and, and whatnot. But it, they're getting, that entrenchment is just getting stronger each year and the fact that so few are saying they're going to give up EVS, I think it's down to 1%. So they're, they're definitely going to go back to gas. It's, It's a real, it's a real. Not. I won't say it's an eye opener, but it really does hammer home this notion that it's not just a technology, it's not just the product itself, it's living with it that really changes the consumer mindset.
- [26:52]
A
Now.
- [26:53]
C
Interesting. Oh, go ahead, Joe.
- [26:55]
A
When you look at these numbers, have you found that there is a correlation to age? Like, is it all ages that are interested or is it more younger people or.
- [27:06]
B
It's interesting. It's a great question because we do segment by generation, which is important across all the work we do with EV ownership, that 90 number goes up to 94 if you exclude boomers. And it's, it's, you know, kind of smart people. We're talking like, okay, boomer, they might, they might not be considering another car. Right. So.
- [27:29]
A
Right.
- [27:30]
B
They might not answer that question the same way. Again, it's a little morbid, but, but when you look at how they, the, the respondents answer questions about how much they enjoy the vehicles, oftentimes the boomers are, are higher depending on the question.
- [27:50]
A
Okay.
- [27:52]
B
But yeah, across the board, it depends on the question, but there are variations.
- [27:57]
A
Okay.
- [27:58]
C
I thought it was interesting too, that the reasons people gave or going electric were both pragmatic and then altruistic. There was the people who wanted to go green and about the same number of people who, who wanted to. Maybe these numbers aren't mutually exclusive. I may have read this wrong, but it was. The percents were similar for going green and for saving money.
- [28:19]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [28:20]
B
This is the top motivator question. So it's like, what is the, the main thing that made you change? So we don't let them pick more than one. And the environment was number one. And, and so, you know, the, the impact on, on the purse, the, the pocketbook was number two. And which has always been kind of the answer. Like, I want the latest technology. I want to be that first mover that has really dropped down and we split it up by Tesla and non Tesla owners. That's the one where the Tesla owners jump up about the technology.
- [28:56]
C
Okay.
- [28:57]
B
And it's really the environment and cost are higher on the non Tesla because obviously our dealers don't sell Teslas.
- [29:04]
C
Interesting. What, what's the question I'm trying to ask here? Did you guys see an impact from the, the loss of the federal tax credits?
- [29:17]
B
No. And in fact, this was in last year's Study too. We, we made sure to, or I guess our purchase study we do separately. But we asked that question because we were concerned and no, it's, it's really not an impact and, and especially with these owners that live with it. 87 said they are saving money owning EVS, so interesting. They understand the, the, the value to it in terms of that cost ownership and you know, whatever you were going to get out of that incentive, which was mainly for most buyers, is on a lease. You know, it's. Now they're looking at the, at a basic price and negotiation just like any other car, and they're taking that savings that they know they'll get into, into consideration.
- [30:03]
C
Interesting. A number I saw that I wanted to ask you about was home charging. And pre your research, 84% of your respondents have a home charging outfit. Is that number falling at all? Are we starting to see, like, urbanites buy into this? And maybe they're encouraged by the fact that there are more and more public charging options.
- [30:22]
B
It's changed a little. Not a lot. But what's, what's definitely changed is we've seen a little movement on how many say they, they charge at work because they don't have that home charger. They, it's because public's obviously the number one option if you don't have a home charger, but charging at work's at number two. So a lot of these people that don't have the home charging, I think they made the move knowing that they had that option at work because, okay, as, as great as EVs are, they're the best as a commute car. Right. So that that number did change.
- [30:57]
C
Are you finding. I don't know if you guys did this correlation, but I don't know if you're finding that people who don't have home charging are slightly less happy with their EVs.
- [31:06]
B
Oh, no, we don't have that slice. That's a great question. That's a great question. But no, we don't have that exact slice.
- [31:14]
A
For your next survey.
- [31:15]
B
Yeah, so we could try and do that one. It's a good question.
- [31:18]
C
So what else should we know about the electric car research?
- [31:23]
B
I think what it really does show is that you do these studies enough times, you kind of see some trend lines continue here and there. But it really is the cementing of the technology among this group. The amount they will say how much they love the vehicle, how much they'll promote it with friends, you know, you know, the service and, and the experience that with having less Service is a benefit. And they're also like, you know, we talk about dealers and service. That had been a sore spot in previous studies that we had done. But this year the numbers did improve quite a bit, where 63%. Well, more, well, more than double last year, said they got an appointment the same day because there are fewer EV technicians out there. But 63% said they got the service schedule the same day. And, and 39 said it was definitely cheaper to service their EV than their gas car.
- [32:28]
C
So earlier versions of this research getting service was an issue.
- [32:32]
B
Yes. Yes. Only 28% last year said they could schedule an appointment the same day. Yeah, that's not a good number. So now it's up to 63%. Yeah.
- [32:41]
C
That's interesting. Do you have any idea why the massive increase in availability of techs and scheduling options?
- [32:49]
B
Yeah, I think it's this slow curve up, as we see, of just the existence of EVs. It's the same, I think, at the dealership, where it's just this curve of things will just continually grow and you'll get more technicians, they'll have solutions for what actually needs to be done to their vehicles. Because every brand does has unique EVs, right?
- [33:14]
C
Yeah.
- [33:14]
B
And, and some just have one, some have, you know, two or three. So some have been doing it longer, if you want to take a look at Ford. Right. So, so yeah, I think it's just that this gradual growth is helping and, and even though it's gradual, that number really did, did spike over one year.
- [33:37]
C
Did you happen to dig into what kind of maintenance people needed?
- [33:41]
B
No, this is not. We did not do a deep dive into each, each service.
- [33:45]
C
No, I'm just interested early on in the, in the ev, in the EV days, obviously everyone was concerned about tire life and it was a real problem. I don't think that was a myth. I think that was a real problem. But I'm wondering if things have gotten better in that regard. And I'm sure EV tires have probably come down a little bit in costs too.
- [34:05]
B
Yeah. The tire thing still comes up as something that people mention in the study. But to your point, you know, not every EV is that, you know, torque monster that the early ones were. Right. Like, I mean, Tesla was one most notorious for burning through the tires. So it, you know, it's really interesting when, because all of us on this call really understand how much an automaker and that those engineers put thought into everything they do, I mean, to the nth degree in a lot of cases. So they probably are thinking of tire wear all the time. And maybe that's something Tesla just didn't think much about. Right. So. But yeah, it's definitely decreased even on, even on some of the powerful ones. When I talk to like BMW dealers, for example, which sells a lot of EVs, they say they don't really see a difference in tire wear evs than, than others. So.
- [35:04]
C
Interesting.
- [35:04]
B
I think it's really dependent on, on what type of vehicles and the, the tires they select.
- [35:11]
C
So we're probably. Oh, go ahead, Joe.
- [35:13]
A
No, if you're. Okay. I, I was going to change the subject a little bit because like the, the materials are overwhelmingly positive saying people, you know, are going to buy like a new EV and the service is going well. So I was just wondering if you had a sense, like, are these people where this is their secondary car so it's not as big of a deal, or are this, this is their only vehicle only.
- [35:36]
B
Only a quarter said it was their only vehicle. Okay, so, so yeah, there's. And then I want to say, shoot, I should have it up somewhere, but it's in the study. I think it's another 20% or so are EV only households. So they have one EV, but that's all they've got. And then it's a mix of. Most of the rest are a traditional gas car, a few hybrids, and a few plugins.
- [35:59]
C
Interesting.
- [36:00]
A
Okay.
- [36:00]
C
All right. Now I'm really changing topics.
- [36:02]
A
Okay.
- [36:04]
C
But you guys did a study on negative equity, and that's a big story these days. There was one thing I had heard in the news, and I cannot remember the source, but the average car owner who was upside down on their vehicle at trade in time was at least 7,000 or, I'm sorry, on average $7,000 upside down. That is a tremendous amount of money to have to add to the price of your car and then finance and ultimately it's going to screw up the dealer too. I'm sorry, the owner too, because they're going to be paying more in interest because they're not covering a down payment. Yeah, yeah.
- [36:39]
B
Negative equity is one of those things that has kind of reared its head. And I do think it stems from, you know, Covid did a lot of things, you know, to the economy, let alone the horribleness of the, of the pandemic itself. But it, it taught some really bad habits, especially for car buying. There's a few, there's a few years post Covid, with the supply chain issues where people were flipping cars like you could sell because supply was so low. Like you had young Buyers that didn't know better. It's like, oh, I can take my Mustang and sell it back and I'll get the same. Like, I won't lose money, right? And they, and they kept doing it and then they, they ran out of that, that supply chains came back and that wasn't possible again. So this, the education around car ownership and car buying, I think took a really big hit in Covid, especially among younger buyers. And then the other thing too is I was doing some number crunching and I'm going to get to the negative equity, don't worry. But when you think of millennials, there's not a time in a, in, in that generation's adult life when 0% financing wasn't readily available until today. So that whole generation was used to get in 0% if they had good credit or 1.9, something really small. And that just doesn't exist anymore. So when you talk about affordability, whether it's negative equity or not, you know, it's, it's changed the mindset that people have had for a long time. And you don't buy a car for five years, typically a new car. So it, A lot of this stuff is caught up with, with people, and that includes negative equity. But when we, so knowing that negative equity was a problem, we heard these numbers, we're like, okay, so why are you doing this? And the number one reason, and this is like, I do have that number right here. That was 34. The number one reason, and it was number one by significant number, was because they just wanted something new. You know, they're, they're just like, yeah, it's like, yeah, I guess I'm, I'm underwater. And maybe it's seven grand, maybe it's five or whatever it might be. I just want the new truck that came out, or, you know, there's a high performance version of my car now. I want that one. Obviously, a lot of this is on the luxury side. You see a lot of, you know, car dealers on TikTok that sell luxury cars talking about negative equity. And can you believe how much this person's rolling in? Or they just bought this a year ago. What are they thinking? But yeah, so what, what it really kind of shows, though, is another thing that we saw change since COVID is the lack of leasing. Number of people who lease really fell off a cliff. And this is a group, this 34, that want a new car is like, because sometimes, depending on how you look at leasing, it's not, you know, the financial move to make, but if you're doing this, it's the financial move to make.
- [39:31]
A
I was literally thinking that, yeah, you should be a leaser if you're just trade your car in every three years.
- [39:37]
B
Yeah. So it's a great opportunity for dealers to kind of explain that system again. Again, it's one of those things that's kind of been lost because leasing was just totally normal, especially in the luxury world. You know, before COVID it was very common.
- [39:51]
C
Yep. Actually going back to the, the electric car stuff, there were a lot of lessors in there.
- [39:58]
B
Yes. And those numbers, we, we've done some blogs on this as well. The numbers of lease returns is substantial, like in the hundreds of thousands of cars coming back. And there's not a lot of new EVs they can switch into, certainly not for the same price they were getting before the incentives went away. And there's not a lot of product out there, as you two know. I mean there's not a lot of new EV models on the market. And, and the number like I think the, the Subaru, Toyota Siblings, let's say, are actually in pretty high demand. There's not any on lots and they're going through a 27 model year turnover. So you know, those I think have become, I know a lot of people want that Subaru, especially the Trail Seeker that looks like a wagon. And I'm on Reddit forums and seeing these people like they can't find them. So if you're coming off interesting, something like that, you're not going to find it. Right. Especially if you're a Nissan EV owner coming out of an Aria, where do you go? Right. There's, there's lots of those types of questions out there. And unfortunately, and you guys just talked about this recently on one of your podcasts, you know, the automakers had to make changes to what their plans were at the 11th hour, I'm quoting Jill. And, and, and that meant there's what was planned is not coming, certainly not in the near term. So it's, it's going to be an interesting year. In terms of the sales numbers. They're not going to be great. Right. But you know, we need to get this fresh product, whether it's from that Kia, the small Kia that's coming out. Heck, there aren't Nissan Leafs on lots. There's very few of those, especially the, the cheap one. So there's just not a lot of availability out there for, for a lot of these lessee returning lessees.
- [41:52]
C
Interesting. Dave, this has been great stuff and it was good talking to you remind us how people can check out this research.
- [41:59]
B
Sure. Cdk.com insights everything's right there. Follow us on LinkedIn. That'd be great.
- [42:06]
C
Dave, thank you so much for your time today.
- [42:09]
B
Yeah, I'm glad we could get on the call. Really.
- [42:11]
C
Yeah, we'll have you back on soon. All right, thank you. All right, that was Dave. Dave Thomas with CDK Global. We're going to take a break and when we come back, Quiz time. Quiz time.
- [42:22]
B
Questions or comments? Drop us a line at carstuff@consumerguide.com that's carstuffonsumerguide.com. Welcome back to the Car Stuff podcast.
- [42:40]
C
And we're back. This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast. I'm Tom Appel, publisher of Consumer Guide Automotive. With me, Jill Simonillo, contributing editor here at Consumer Guide North American Car of the Year juror and prolific freelancer and social media abuse user abuser.
- [42:59]
A
Yes, yes. Tick tock and YouTube are, are my primaries. Instagram is secondary. But I am also on Facebook threads, Blue Sky, Twitter, all the things. And I do post new videos every day to YouTube and tick tock. So definite catch me there. And I love to interact with people and add, you know, answer questions or if people have video or photo requests of the vehicle that I'm driving, car du jour, I'm always happy to try and comply if I still have my hands on the vehicle.
- [43:32]
C
Do you use Reddit?
- [43:35]
A
I don't. You know, I, I like over the past, what, 10 years, I keep trying to dip into Reddit and I just, I mean if it comes up as a Google result for something that I'm looking for, I'll look at it.
- [43:48]
C
But I don't, it does a lot.
- [43:50]
A
I don't actively post. Well, that was the Google and helpful update that happened a couple years ago. They started prioritizing Reddit and like listservs and forums and that kind of stuff for traffic, like user generated content. So yeah, like Quora, Reddit, that kind of stuff comes up a lot when you are.
- [44:10]
C
Yeah, Quora too. Yeah.
- [44:12]
A
And I just, I don't know, I just, I, I haven't found a, a personal value in it and so I
- [44:19]
C
just haven't, I like, I like the old school message board quality of it. However, I, I find it difficult to follow threads and then they throw in ads which makes it further.
- [44:32]
A
Yeah.
- [44:32]
C
Which further complicates following stuff and I lose interest. But I used to be involved with some message boards that I really enjoyed and those dames seem to be gone. But Anyway, yeah, I am car guy Tom on Twitter X and Blue Sky.
- [44:47]
A
But not Reddit.
- [44:48]
C
But not Reddit. No, I don't. I don't see myself adding additional outlets anytime soon. And as we've noted, I don't like people, so. I don't.
- [44:58]
A
I. I like people and I like. Like I said, I like interacting with people. I. You know, I have a substack, but I don't feed it it. Somebody once told me that if you post on substack, that is not your information anymore. They own it. And I was like, no, I don't like that. So I really haven't been posting anything to substack because I'm like, I want to put it in a place where I'm going to own stuff. That is my content.
- [45:24]
C
We. We do have some great followers on X.
- [45:26]
A
Yes.
- [45:27]
C
Including Rich, who has his own. We should share this. But Rich has his own blog.
- [45:33]
A
Ah, yes.
- [45:34]
C
Yeah. And then the crowd on Blue sky is pretty good too. But it is quiz time.
- [45:38]
A
Okay, we've. We've wasted enough time is what I'm hearing you say.
- [45:41]
C
That is what I'm saying.
- [45:43]
A
Enough talk about social media, onto the quiz. Got it.
- [45:46]
C
So we talked about electric cars, but one of the revolutions that has taken place for vehicles not electric is that so many vehicles now come with turbocharged engines.
- [45:57]
A
Yes.
- [45:58]
C
And in a nutshell, turbocharging is kind of an efficient way to steal horsepower from the air. Basically, you use exhaust gas to force more air into an engine, effectively making the engine larger. It's way more complicated than that, but theoretically, it's simple.
- [46:13]
A
Yeah.
- [46:14]
C
All right, today's topic is, is it turbocharged?
- [46:18]
A
Oh, okay.
- [46:19]
C
I'm going to give you a car, and you need to tell me if that vehicle has a turbocharged engine or not. It's that simple.
- [46:25]
A
That is never that simple.
- [46:27]
C
Five questions, plus the bonus question. Bonus question always related to the topic of the day. You need three total correct answers for a victory.
- [46:37]
A
Yes.
- [46:37]
C
You were on a roll. You got your ass kicked. Was it last week or the week before?
- [46:40]
A
No, last week I got like, five out of six. I think the week before, I think I got zero out of zero.
- [46:46]
C
Yeah, you had been on a roll this year. Like you were having a good year. Yes, I remember the first year of the podcast, you did not have a good year. But you were also playing Damon.
- [46:56]
A
Yes. And Damon. Damon is like a font of information.
- [46:59]
C
Well, and I was asking a lot of questions about 70s cars, so Damon would know that. All right, number one, are you ready?
- [47:07]
A
I. I am Ready?
- [47:08]
C
The Nissan Armada. Is it turbocharged? That is Nissan's big body on frame truck.
- [47:15]
A
Ooh. It used to have a V8 engine, but I think for this model year, they switched to a V6. Well, not this model year, but last model year. Well, whenever they made their refresh, they switched.
- [47:30]
C
It was last year. 2025 was the redesign.
- [47:34]
A
But is it a turbo? I think it. I think it has to be a turbo.
- [47:38]
C
Yep. Twin turbo, 3.5 liter V6. Nice job. Horsepower went up from 390 to 425, moving from. From the V8 to the turbocharged VX V6. You are on the board.
- [47:49]
A
Yay. You did not get to use your favorite phrase.
- [47:52]
B
No.
- [47:54]
C
2. Number two, the Buick and Vista.
- [47:58]
A
Ooh. Not a vehicle I'm familiar with.
- [48:02]
C
That is a great looking car. I see them in traffic all the time around here. Yeah, it's a suburban car.
- [48:10]
A
Well, so the Invista, that's the little egg lake shaped thing one, right?
- [48:15]
C
Yep.
- [48:17]
A
I see them in the city because they're small and compact and easy to park. I don't think I've ever driven one. Oh, does it have a turbo? I'm gonna. I'm gonna say no.
- [48:30]
C
This is a car that I think would be popular with young, well, employed women.
- [48:35]
A
Okay.
- [48:37]
C
Because it's a little more expensive than the tracks on which it is based. It does have a turbocharged engine.
- [48:43]
A
Okay.
- [48:43]
C
1.2 liter, three cylinder engine, 137 horsepower. You did not get a point for that one.
- [48:51]
A
Did not get a point. Okay.
- [48:53]
C
All right. Number three maybe applies, maybe appeals to the same audience. Maybe not the Toyota Corolla Cross, Which is not really a Corolla, but it is a small crossover and it's very popular.
- [49:10]
A
It. It is. And they have a hybrid version of it. But that's not the one you're talking about.
- [49:19]
C
There is a hybrid.
- [49:21]
A
I'm gonna say no.
- [49:22]
C
Nope. It's a. It's a two liter engine that Toyota has wildly overnamed Dynamic Force.
- [49:31]
A
Dynamic. It's very dynamic.
- [49:33]
C
169 horsepower from two liters. I guess that's good. You have two points. Interesting thing about that engine is it is one of the most volumetrically efficient engines I think that you can buy in a production car in the US Just a lot of horsepower from. From a liter of gas.
- [49:55]
A
Okay.
- [49:56]
C
All right. You have two points. You need one more for a safe victory. Number four, the Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross. I didn't realize I went with two crosses in a row.
- [50:09]
A
How do you mean?
- [50:11]
C
I want Corolla Cross and then Eclipse cross.
- [50:13]
A
Oh, got it. I was like, what do you mean, a Mitsubishi? She has two crosses. Okay.
- [50:18]
C
We just. We just talked a little. Mitsu, was it?
- [50:20]
A
Two episodes ago, we did with Jeremy Barnes.
- [50:23]
C
Yeah, that.
- [50:24]
A
That episode on YouTube has gotten a couple of comments, by the way, specifically talking about how much they like Mitsubishi and, you know, like, they like their cars.
- [50:33]
C
So I'm glad people still like the brand. And.
- [50:35]
A
Yeah, yeah, the Eclipse Cross. Yeah, it's been a. Like, I don't think I've driven that since 2021 when they refreshed it.
- [50:48]
C
I don't think I ever drove the refresh version. It had a ridiculous spoiler in its first generation.
- [50:55]
A
It was like, split the rear window that it was visibility bad. But does it have a turbo? Because it's been a solid five years since I've seen this car, I'm gonna say no.
- [51:10]
C
It does. 1.5 liter turbocharged engine mated to a CVT. This would be a very conventional, real CVT, by the way, not a confusing ECVT. 152 horsepower.
- [51:24]
A
Okay.
- [51:25]
C
All right, it's getting interesting now. You have two more chances to get a victory. Number five, the 2026 Volkswagen Jetta. By the way, the GLI is gone.
- [51:41]
A
Yeah. And I think the GLI was the only one you could still get a manual transmission in.
- [51:44]
C
It was a lingering manual transmission. I think Volkswagen is officially without a manual.
- [51:51]
A
Boo.
- [51:55]
B
Boo.
- [51:56]
C
That's Volkswagen.
- [51:57]
A
I know. And I can say that as a Volkswagen owner. Boo.
- [52:01]
C
I. I think I was super into Volkswagen at a time where the take rate on manuals was probably close to half. Yeah, it was a good stick, too.
- [52:12]
A
They. They do a good manual transmission. Does the Jetta have a turbo? I'm gonna say no.
- [52:24]
C
Wait, what did you just say?
- [52:25]
A
No.
- [52:26]
C
Did you say it doesn't have a manual transmission?
- [52:28]
A
No. Does it have what? Maybe, like the words that are in my head versus what's coming out of my mouth. Not the same. Does it have a turbocharged engine? I'm gonna say no.
- [52:38]
C
Okay. It does. 1.5 liter turbo, 158 horsepower. You need the bonus question?
- [52:45]
A
I do. I do. Luckily, it's about a goose egg today.
- [52:48]
C
It's about fast food, which you know a lot about.
- [52:51]
A
I. Yes. After having had my kale salad for lunch, I know a lot about fast food.
- [52:56]
C
You're a big fan of Jack in the Box.
- [53:00]
A
Yeah. I won't tell you what my husband calls it. No, I'm not. But yes. Okay, go ahead.
- [53:05]
C
Established in 1951, True Story. They haven't had a store in Illinois for like 40 years. But one of the last stores was literally across the street from where I live now.
- [53:15]
B
Okay.
- [53:16]
C
There's now a Walgreens in that spot. But I had my first ever taco at Jack in the Box. And I want to make it clear, not a really good representation of the taco. Got was just this greasy folded over wreck. Absolutely delicious. How many Jack in the Box locations do you think there are in the U.S.
- [53:41]
A
i'm like 10,000? 20.
- [53:43]
C
100.
- [53:44]
A
Okay. I'm like, I have no idea.
- [53:46]
C
And how many do you think there are in Canada?
- [53:51]
A
Five. Hundred?
- [53:52]
C
Zero. Okay, so they're, they're expanding slowly back into the rest of the U.S. but Canada is going to have to wait. All right, I need you to tell me which of the following is not a hamburger on the Jack in the Box menu here in the US I
- [54:09]
A
have never eaten at a Jack in the Box, so I. This is going to be a pure guess.
- [54:13]
C
All right. The Sourdough Jack, the Smoking barbecue triple bonus Jack, the Mammoth Angus Ranch Jack, or the Buttery Smashed Jack.
- [54:28]
A
I mean, smash burgers are a thing right now.
- [54:31]
C
Yes, that's the Sourdough Jack, the smoking barbecue triple bonus Jack, the Mammoth Angus Ranch Jack, and the Buttery Smash Jack.
- [54:44]
A
Buttery Smash Jack.
- [54:48]
C
That sounds like a Halloween costume.
- [54:50]
A
I. Yeah, like. Yeah, the Headless Horseman or something. Buttery Smash Jack. Okay, so I think sourdough is real because sourdough is, is a thing. It's a phase.
- [55:01]
C
Okay.
- [55:02]
A
And then you said, what was the, what was the second one? A barbecue.
- [55:06]
C
The smoking barbecue triple bonus Jack.
- [55:09]
A
That sounds like that should be a thing. Okay, so I'm, I'm down to the, the bottom two. So what. What are they? So the Buttery Smash burger is the last one. And then what's the.
- [55:19]
C
The Mammoth Angus Ranch Jack?
- [55:25]
A
It's got to be one of those.
- [55:27]
C
I keep looking at this and reading mammoth anus, which would. That would look terrible on a menu.
- [55:32]
A
That, that would in fact look terrible on a menu. And whenever you say mammoth, I'm thinking of like a woolly mammoth.
- [55:38]
C
Oh.
- [55:40]
A
But I mean, mammoth Big do will Jack in the Box cash in on a trend with a smash burger?
- [55:54]
C
I don't know if historically they've been very hip, but anyway, probably not.
- [55:58]
A
And the buttery thing is kind of throwing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna say the Buttery
- [56:01]
C
Smash burger is the fake.
- [56:03]
A
Is the fake.
- [56:04]
C
Yeah, that's real. Yeah. Yeah. The Mammoth Angus Ranch Brack. That's Fake.
- [56:10]
A
Yeah, I knew, like, I knew it had to be one of those. And.
- [56:13]
C
But yeah, you did a good job narrowing it down.
- [56:16]
A
Narrowed it down.
- [56:17]
C
Yep.
- [56:17]
A
But still lost.
- [56:19]
C
Yep. So I just got out of the Lexus LX600. That is Lexus's big body on frame truck.
- [56:27]
A
Okay.
- [56:27]
C
Like. Like the armada we just talked about. And it's related. QX60 swapped a V8 for a turbocharged V6 recently.
- [56:35]
A
Okay.
- [56:36]
B
And.
- [56:36]
C
And I have complained to you and to anyone who will listen about how the downsizing of Lexus engines has resulted in slightly less refinement in the lineup. And the Lexus ES now is. Is without that wonderful 3.5 liter V6 that Toyota and Lexus used to put in things that were supposed to be smooth and refined. So that kind of bummed me out. So this vehicle, they literally published the size of this engine differently. Different places. It's either a 3, 4, or a 3.5. But the thing about this engine that, that actually pleased me endlessly over the last week is that at low speed and when you're pulling away from a light, it makes the best noise. There's just a little burble from the exhaust, a little, I don't want to call it grit because it's not unrefined, but just some mechanical noise from the engine itself as you're pulling away. And all that noise goes completely away at mid. At mid speeds and on the highway. So I think they nailed the sense, the sense of performance here. You know, you're pulling away, you're driving around the city, you're hitting the gas to pull into a free space in traffic or something like that, and you get the noise. And like, I'm digging this. Okay, I'm digging this. But like so many Lexus products too, this car, the. The interior fit and finish is like flawless. I don't, I don't know how they do that. And I haven't seen a car that looks bad in terms of assembly quality in a long time. But it's extra good here.
- [58:08]
A
What trim do you have? Did you have. Do you remember?
- [58:12]
C
I don't. And I don't have it in front of me. Came to 122k. I'm sorry, 108k.
- [58:17]
A
Okay. So you could have had one of the more basic trims then, which. That's pretty great.
- [58:23]
C
Yeah, I know. Like the vehicle a lot. 17.8 miles per gallon, which is fine. It would have been so much worse with the old V8. And I think that's, that's the Point here, that would have been more like 14, 15 mpg.
- [58:37]
A
Yeah, well, I, I just swapped out of the Jeep wagon Grand Wagoneer with the Hurricane engine, you know, so turbocharged V6 or I inline six cylinder. And I thought that engine was amazing. I love that engine. Better than the Hemi.
- [58:56]
C
So that's the 20, 26 grand Wagoneer. So that's the new. Everything's called Grand Wagoneer. Grand Wagoneer, yes.
- [59:03]
A
Yes.
- [59:05]
C
Yeah, for people who miss that story. And it seemed like Jeep kind of swung and missed on naming this thing, but there used to be a Wagoneer and a Grand Wagoneer and you might have assumed that Grand Wagoneer meant bigger, but. No, it meant more stuff. Yeah, it kind of got confusing and they weren't selling a lot of the Grand Wagoneers so they've condensed that product lineup to just Grand Wagoneer. What trim level did you have of that?
- [59:31]
A
The, the Upland. The Upland. So it's. I, it was the.
- [59:38]
C
So overland.
- [59:39]
A
No, no, no, it's Upland. It's kind of like an off roady trim. Like it had front tow hooks and skid plates and things like that, which is kind of weird for this vehicle. But knowing, okay, if you're gonna go camping and you want to be able to get to the trailhead in style, you can, you can do it in this vehicle.
- [60:03]
C
Yeah. And to some extent that's what these big body on frame trucks are sort of for. They're not true off roaders. The wheelbases are too long.
- [60:11]
A
Right.
- [60:11]
C
They sit a little bit too low, but you can throw big wheels and tires on them and make them remarkably capable in the rough stuff.
- [60:19]
A
Yeah. And this did have the air suspension too. So you could raise it or lower it and it would automatically, like when you would be at highway speeds, I would get a message saying arrow, you know, height achieved. So it would automatically raise and lower depending on your speed. But if you were in an off roady situation, you could raise it up or you know, as somebody had recommended when I was trying it into my garage, you could lower it down. So you make sure you don't scrape the, the top of it. But yeah, I have, I have a funny video out there right now of me parking it in my garage.
- [60:58]
C
Excellent. How much was that bad boy?
- [61:01]
A
I believe the base price is around like 73,000. This had a couple of options on it, but not a lot. I'm totally from memory. I think the as tested price was around 77,000.
- [61:15]
C
Oh, that. Given the class of vehicle it's in. That's not crazy.
- [61:22]
A
Yeah. And I mean, I, I'm not looking at the sticker sheet right now, but I'm pretty sure that's, that's right around where it was. And, but I mean, it had rear climate controls. And the third row seat for the Grand Wagoneer is probably hands down the best third row seat in existence that I've tested recently.
- [61:41]
C
Oh. So was this a long wheelbase?
- [61:43]
A
No, no. But. But what's really nice about it is, you know, they've managed to. It's a little bit of a wider vehicle, so your shoulder space. You're not like, if you're putting three people in that backseat, you're not going to be like, scrunched together. Like, I could sit next to me, Sit next to me, sit next to me. And I, I wouldn't be playing this she's touching me game. You know, it, it, it, it was a solid third row seat with plenty of leg room as well.
- [62:10]
C
Not only couldn't I do that, sit next to me, sit next to me. I wouldn't. I'm super irritating. And I would not want to be next to me in a car for a long trip.
- [62:20]
A
Me, I like myself so I could be next to me. Being next to me. Being next to me.
- [62:25]
C
All right, guess what we did.
- [62:27]
A
We had another great show.
- [62:29]
C
Yeah. Good to talk to Dave Thomas. Smart guy. Knows what he's talking about. We'll have to have him back soon, so thank you to Dave Thomas of CDK Global. Thank you, Jill. Thank you to producer Margaret. Let's talk more about cars again. When?
- [62:41]
A
Next week?
- [62:41]
C
Next week.
- [62:43]
B
Remember to check us out@consumerguide.com the car stuff podcast is produced by J Turn Media. To advertise on the show, please drop us a line at carstuff@consumerguide.com.