Buick's New Sedan, 1000-Pound Caterham, Elon is Distracted

Summary

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Car Stuff Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Consumer Guide Car Stuff Podcast
Hosts: Tom Appel, Jill Ciminillo
Episode: Buick’s New Sedan, 1000-Pound Caterham, Elon is Distracted
Date: May 18, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Tom and Jill reunite after a month apart and dive deep into the latest headlines from the car world. They explore the surprising possibility of Buick bringing back a new sedan, discuss what makes the “barely over 1,000-pound” Caterham such a special car (with guest Simon Sproul), and debate whether American youth are really turning away from crossovers. The show also touches on the Land Rover Defender Trophy event, the luxurious quirks of the Range Rover SE, and takes a critical look at Tesla and the state of autonomous vehicles, especially Elon Musk's shifting priorities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Buick’s Upcoming Sedan & The Case for Sedans

• [06:08] Sedans Making a Comeback?
  • Tom: Describes rumors that Buick may reintroduce a sedan on Cadillac’s new "Alpha 2" platform, originally for the CT5.
  • Buick’s Opportunity: Buick could use the sedan both for younger buyers and business/fleet markets.
  • “Maybe there is some room for sedans to make a comeback, but American makers have all but washed their hands of sedans. However, Buick is making some noise in this regard.” (Tom, 06:07)
  • Chevy Camaro’s Future: New Camaro might be a high-performance sedan—“not arrive in the form of a coupe...based on this architecture as well.” (Tom, 07:20)
  • Jill: Notes high gas prices could boost sedan demand, “I definitely don’t think that the sedan is dead, especially when we’re talking about higher gas prices.” (Jill, 07:48)
  • Tom: Reflects on why crossovers triumphed—space, AWD, ride height.

Land Rover Defender Trophy Event

• [09:04] Jill’s Experience at Defender Trophy Trials
  • Jill covers her trip to the Land Rover Defender Trophy in Vancouver—blending feats of physical strength, teamwork challenges, and off-road driving.
  • “I called it a Land Rover playground...building bridges to drive Defenders over, pulling up blocks...crazy to watch and really cool. I had a little bit of FOMO.” (Jill, 10:52)
  • The event draws inspiration from the legendary Camel Trophy.
  • Land Rover’s Image: Jill notes JLR wants to cultivate a “tough guy persona,” making owners feel capable and adventurous.
  • Tom acknowledges that off-road events reinforce Land Rover and Jeep’s expertise.

2025 Range Rover SE Review

• [16:00] Jill’s Impressions
  • 4.4L Turbo V8 (BMW-sourced), 523 HP, 553 lb-ft.
  • “So smooth, so fast, so fun to drive...Even though this is a big vehicle, it felt small, it drove small. It was definitely more on the nimble side of things." (Jill, 17:54)
  • Surprising city maneuverability—great turning radius.
  • Downsides: Price ($155,000 as tested; $135,000 base) and windshield washer system—ineffective at highway speed.
  • “You spray out of the windshield wipers, and then it just literally flies off the side...there’s no fluid really left to get the bug guts off.” (Jill, 19:18)
  • Tom: Notes BMW engine partnership—a major shift for Range Rover.
  • Jill’s review will appear “soon” on Consumer Guide.

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Guest Segment: Simon Sproul, Caterham

[25:23]

• Caterham’s Heritage:
  • Classic British sports car company—has built on the original Lotus Seven since 1973.
  • “Still to this day you hear people at Lotus and others talking about this idea of adding lightness, which...anyone who’s making a sports car knows that weight is the enemy of everything.” (Simon Sproul, 26:09)
  • Fundamental ethos: ultra-lightweight, elemental driving, minimal driver aids.
• Who Buys a Caterham?
  • “Hardcore driving enthusiasts,” track-day fans, and racers.
  • “It’s a lot of fun to drive on that favorite bit of windy road when it’s quiet on a Sunday morning and you really just want to connect with the car on the road.” (Simon, 29:50)
• Car Details:
  • Approx. 1,000 lbs; Ford 2.0L Duratec engines; manual (Mazda-derived gearbox) and (for higher trims) a sequential gearbox.
  • “We’re very focused as a company on power to weight because...the origins of the car is about lightness.” (Simon, 30:19)
• How to Get One in the U.S.:
  • Sold under kit car regulations; seven U.S. dealers.
  • Can be delivered as a kit you build yourself, or assembled by the dealer.
  • "Depending on which state you’re in, there are different ways of getting it registered...sometimes Caterhams come in under a 1957 replica law." (Simon, 33:21)
• Price Range & Rarity:
  • $80,000–$100,000, usually less than 100 units imported annually to the U.S.
  • “We sell currently under 100 cars a year...We’re really, if you think about who’s been buying Harley-Davidsons, it’s not the only thing you have in your garage. It’s something you take out when you want to enjoy a weekend blast.” (Simon, 36:12)

Notable Quotes

• “I need to lose about 100 pounds.” (Tom, joking about fitting into a Caterham, 40:17)
• “They are go karts with, like, 100 or 200 horsepower engines. They’re absurd, and they’re cool.” (Tom, 40:37)

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The EV/Autonomous Cars Deep-Dive

Elon Musk & Tesla’s Changing Focus

• [53:23] Bodhi from Kilowatt (summary of Tesla’s earnings call): Elon Musk appears “not interested in cars anymore.”
• Tesla pivot is now toward: semis for PepsiCo, the Optimus humanoid robot, energy storage, and semiconductors.
• Robo taxis and full self-driving (FSD) remain deeply controversial and legally constrained.
• Jill: “There are no self-driving cars that you can own...people tell me every day they want to buy a Tesla with full self driving so when they’re tired or they’ve had a couple drinks at night...that is not why you buy that car.” (55:25)
• Warnings that early FSD buyers, having spent $8,000–$15,000, may wind up in class actions as their hardware becomes obsolete.

Waymo/Cruise/Robo-Taxi Reality

• Jill: Only Waymo is really operating driverless vehicles at any meaningful scale, and they’re not infallible.
• Waymo’s recent bizarre software glitch: “50 Waymo vehicles all descended on the same subdivision and just kept tooling around a cul-de-sac.” (Tom, 57:13)
• Tom: In Chicago, everyone is waiting to see how Waymo handles winter.

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Fun Segment: Luxury Sales Quiz (Q1 2026)

[41:52]

• Jill scores 5-for-5 on Tom's "Which sold better?" luxury vehicle quiz (Acura MDX vs. Genesis GV80, BMW 5 Series vs. Mercedes E, etc.)
• Bonus: ‘Which is NOT a Talking Heads album?’ (Jill misses: “Naked” was their real 1988 album; “Exile on Main Street” is Rolling Stones.)

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Notable Moments & Quotes

• “So we're talking about Land Rover...is building a Persona, like a tough guy persona of somebody who might Own this vehicle. And so it's, it's creating a little bit of fomo. You know, I have this vehicle, I could do this. I want to be that guy.” (Jill, [12:40])
• “Jeep had similar guys with similar experience, so that worked pretty well.” (Tom, [14:09])
• “It’s kind of like buying a Louis Vuitton purse instead of buying a Kate Spade.” (Jill on Range Rover, [19:18])
• “Not a lot of fun to drive, but just supremely refined.” (Tom, on Lexus ES, [60:09])

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Next Week’s Tease

• Upcoming review: all-new Lexus ES sedan (electric and hybrid only, no conventional gas.)
• “We won't be able to talk about this next week on the show, but we will be able to talk about it the following week.” (Jill, 60:11)

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Where to Find More

• Jill Simonello: All socials as @jillsimonello, YouTube "Car du Jour"
• Tom Appel: @CarguyTom on X/Twitter and Bluesky
• Contact: [e-mail]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:07] Buick & the comeback of sedans
• [09:00] Land Rover Defender Trophy Event
• [16:00] Range Rover SE review
• [25:23] Simon Sproul & Caterham interview
• [41:49] Luxury sales quiz
• [53:23] Tesla, Elon Musk, and the future of self-driving
• [59:17] Lexus ES preview

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This episode is a great balance of industry analysis, behind-the-scenes stories, and fun, expert banter. The in-depth look at Caterham’s unique approach to sports cars and the hosts’ skepticism about the autonomous future make it essential listening for curious car lovers.

Transcript

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[Carvana Customer]

I sold my car in Carvana last night.

[Jill Simonello]

Well, that's cool.

[Carvana Customer]

No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.

[Jill Simonello]

So what's the problem?

[Carvana Customer]

That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes as smoothly. I'm waiting for the catch.

[Jill Simonello]

Maybe there's no catch.

[Carvana Customer]

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.

[Tom Appel]

Wow.

[Jill Simonello]

You need to relax.

[Carvana Customer]

I need to knock on wood. Do we have. What is this table wood?

[Jill Simonello]

I think it's laminate.

[Carvana Customer]

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[Jill Simonello]

Car Selling without a catch Sell your car today on Carvana.

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Pick up. Fees may apply.

[Tom Appel]

Whether you drive a car, need a car, or just occasionally bum a ride

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with friends, you've come to the right place.

[Tom Appel]

Join Jill and Tom as they break down everything that's going on in the auto world.

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New car reviews, shopping tips, driving green

[Tom Appel]

electric cars, classic cars, and plenty of great guests.

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This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast.

[Tom Appel]

All right. This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast. I am Tom Appel, publisher of Consumer Guide Automotive. Thank you for joining us this week. When you have a chance, do me a favor, do me a solid. Check us out@consumer guide.com while you're there. You can see all of my new car reviews, some fun classic car stuff, and you can stream the podcast right there at our homepage. Though you should actually just subscribe. Jill.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

This is the first time we've been together in like a month.

[Jill Simonello]

It is, it is. We have been in various and sundry places.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, it's been weird. That voice, of course, Jill Simonello, she's a contributing editor [e-mail], north American Car of the Year juror and prolific freelancer. You're doing good.

[Jill Simonello]

I am doing very well. Thank you.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. I apologize for ducking out last week. Things happened. I will try not to do that again too soon.

[Jill Simonello]

That would be appreciated. Even though I know, like, nobody. Like, I'm going to post this. I'm posting our Zoom videos on YouTube again, but the people listening can't see this. But I do feel the need to point out that you have gotten a haircut.

[Tom Appel]

I did. Yeah. I got a lot of haircuts. All right. Around the same place, which is my head. But, yeah, I go to the same place all the time. And it's an actual barbershop. And depending on who gets my head, my hair looks very, very different. There's a guy named Frank. Frank's the best. And he does stuff like, he was a little wisp in the front and curls and stuff. Frank is awesome. The woman that got me this past Saturday. Yeah, she was. She was just going to your head. She clearly was collecting hair scraps for something and needed a lot of hair.

[Jill Simonello]

I know. I'm like. I'm, like, looking at him like, is that just the sun, or is that actually your head? And I'm like, nope, that's actually your head.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. This makes me look bald. I have a lot of very wispy white hair that doesn't show up when it's short. So I look bald.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

Which I am not.

[Jill Simonello]

Well, next week. Next week, we'll see your hair.

[Tom Appel]

All right. Later in the show, we talked to Simon Sproul of Caterham, and I don't think we've ever discussed this brand before, but it is a storied British race car manufacturer. Not really race car, but sports car. And I didn't know this. I had to dig in this a little bit. They bought the rights to the famous Lotus Seven back in 1973, and they've been building that same car ever since. So 50 years of the Lotus 7. Obviously, there have been improvements. There's, like, nine versions of it. The car is cool as heck. It is tiny. It is like. It is like, a hundred horsepower. Go Kart. It's the coolest car in the world. So we'll be talking about that a little bit later on. But. But interesting news. Now. You will get to my news in a second. You did a bonus episode of the podcast. Thank you.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

And you talked to Eric Ledoux of Infinity, so people should check that out. It's out there now. It's about 15 minutes long. And he answered a lot of questions that guys like that don't always answer.

[Jill Simonello]

So, yeah, we had a great conversation. And I was, you know, first time I'd ever met him. First time. I certainly met him in person. And talking about manual transmission coming back into a sedan and so some exciting things in the future of Infinity. I mean, you know, just when you think that maybe, maybe Infinity is done, we have a, but wait, there's more situation going on.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. And that is exactly the stance they have to take right now. Right. They have three products total. This is not a brand with a lot of stuff to stuff into the showroom right now. But They've got the QX60, a midsize crossover. That's good. That's their volume car, the 65, which you went there to drive, which is a sexy fastback version of the 60. And then finally the big QX80, which is sort of their, their Escalade competition. But they've got more stuff coming, which is good. But one of the things that Eric talked about was that, and we know this, we see this happening generation to generation is that young people no longer want to drive crossovers.

[Jill Simonello]

Yep.

[Tom Appel]

I'm, I'm not 100% sure that this is a thing that's taking, but maybe it is. Maybe there is some room for sedans to make a comeback, but American makers have all but washed their hands of sedans. However, Buick is making some noise in this regard. So Cadillac builds a CT4 and CT5, a small and midsize sedan. CT4 is going away soon, but the CT5 is coming back on heavily redone architecture. It's called the Alpha 2 architecture. That architecture probably needs more volume to justify its existence than just Cadillac can give it. So they're talking about a Buick. Buick could make use of a sedan because maybe there are some young people who don't want to buy SUVs. But more importantly, they can probably get by doing some fleet stuff with that too. And I'm not talking about rental fleet, I'm talking about business fleet and things like that. So there's that. But here's the part that not enough people are talking about Chevrolet. You've heard of Chevy?

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, I've never heard of them.

[Tom Appel]

They're talking about a new Camaro.

[Jill Simonello]

Yep.

[Tom Appel]

And that Camaro very likely would not arrive in the form of a coupe. It would very likely be a high performance sedan. And that would be based on this architecture as well. And that's interesting. Yeah, that's really interesting. And we've been watching Cadillac stuff strange V8s under the hood of their CT4 and CT6. So a CT5, I'm sorry, whatever. Camaro comes out of this. If a Camaro comes out of this, could be really cool.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, I, you know, I definitely don't think that the sedan is dead, and especially when we're talking about higher gas prices. Whether it's for the moment or forever. You know, I think that people are looking for something that might be a little bit smaller and user friendly than a crossover.

[Tom Appel]

Maybe. Maybe. I've always appreciated why consumers move to crossovers. You get more space on a, on a, on a footprint. You get all wheel drive. You get this look of utility. I get why people want to do it. Plus they get the ride height. And the problem is that once people started going into crossovers, everybody needed the ride height.

[Jill Simonello]

Right. Everybody needed the right height. Because once one person can see over everybody, everybody to match it.

[Tom Appel]

So I get what happened with crossovers. But, but sedans, you know, they're a little sportier, they can be more fun to drive. Lowers center of gravity, they're easier to make sporty. So we'll see if anything comes of this. I mean, Buick was a sedan manufacturer for decades, almost a century. So it's so weird that they're not in that business anymore. But anyway, that's that story now. You. You.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

I'm looking at my notes. You.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

Were involved in something. I don't even want to explain. You explain it. You, you, you were a Land Rover thing. The Land Rover trophy.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. Yeah. So this is. I, you know, in some ways, I don't even know how to describe it. I went to the Land Rover Defender Trophy trials in Vancouver, Canada, and.

[Tom Appel]

Trials.

[Jill Simonello]

Trials. So this is the trials, and they had three waves of contestants coming through. So I think 120 contestants total and.

[Tom Appel]

Contestants for what?

[Jill Simonello]

So in competing in this event, and then you get to go to a global event in Africa if you move forward. So. And I'm, I was a little bit unsure of how they were actually scoring participants or competitors, but I know, like, some of it was, you know, how quickly people were able to do things, but I think some of it was pretty subjective. And how well do you work as a part of a team? You know, how are your leadership skills? That kind of stuff. You know, are you a personable, nice person? You know, are that kind of thing. Because they had to do interviews, then they had to do what I like to call feats of strength. And so this was anything from having to like, swim a certain amount of distance in a pool to doing a ropes course where you're literally like hanging around by your arms and climbing on ropes and through tires and all this stuff up in the air. And then they had this thing called Le Pencillo, which was essentially. You had this post that eight people had.

[Tom Appel]

I've had that. That's. That's like pasta, right?

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, it's totally like pasta. But they had to like lift this post up in the air and then move it through a maze on the ground by tugging on ropes. And like, one person would have to tug while somebody else would have to let.

[Tom Appel]

So, to what end?

[Jill Simonello]

So, I mean, that was like the team ship and strength exercises. And so then. So that was like day one and then day two was where they got to do like, I called it a Land Rover playground. So you have all of these Land Rover Defenders, the trophy edition, where they would then play like off roading and, you know, but there were still teamship exercises here because you had to build a bridge to drive the Land Rover Defender over, or you use the Defender to pull up blocks. And you. I mean, I don't know, it was just. It was crazy to watch and really cool. I had a little bit of FOMO because I definitely wanted to be participating. But it's modeled after the Defender, the Camel trophy. So I don't know if you remember The Camel Trophy. The 90s.

[Tom Appel]

Anyone who smokes cigarettes remembers the Camel trophy because it was a tie in with Camel cigarettes. And there was extensive ad campaigns which appeared in all the car magazines, but usually just some dude wearing khaki, with a shirt open, covered with sweat and smoking a cigarette. And he was on a raft with some sort of Range Rover, Land Rover product. But yeah, that was a big deal then and it was a bigger deal.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. And it was like an eight day event, I think. And now. So this was. The trials were only two days. So, like the first day was like feats of strength. And then the second day is more of the like vehicle agility and how good you are at driving over obstacles and dealing with the vehicle and situations.

[Tom Appel]

So what does Rover get out of this? Clearly, if they're moving this to Africa, it's going to be international.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

Which. Which is interesting.

[Jill Simonello]

I mean, I don't know if it's necessarily Goodwill or. I don't know if it's. I mean, I have to think it's talking about the capability of the vehicle itself, but I think it's also setting up a Persona, like a tough guy Persona of somebody who might Own this vehicle. And so it's, it's creating a little bit of fomo. You know, I have this vehicle, I could do this. I want to be that guy. You know, I wrote an article for Consumer Guide Automotive and I mentioned that the very first time I went on a press trip with Land Rover, you know, I saw these quote unquote Land Rover guys who could, literally, they were prepared for Armageddon, I think, you know, they could get you out of a ditch, they could, you know, Ford water, they could, you know, do all of these amazing things. And I just remember walking away from that event thinking, I want to be that guy. I want to be able to do that. I want to be able to do those things. Well, those guys that were helping to guide us through these situations and were instructing us on how to drive these vehicles in many cases had competed in the Camel Trophy. And so it was just kind of cool.

[Tom Appel]

We should talk about that level of skill and talent. And that's if you have a brand like Jeep or if you have a brand like Land Rover, you kind of need to build on that and you need people who really know what they're doing. And I know the guys you're talking about, I went to those events as well and they were surprisingly calm and could get you through anything. Of course it helped that Land Rover products were so good off road anyway.

[Jill Simonello]

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

[Tom Appel]

Jeep had similar guys with similar experience, so that worked pretty well. The interesting thing about the Trophy Defender, and it's only based on the 110, which is the regular length four door vehicle, that vehicle isn't particularly suited for this. It actually gets like weird luxury upgrades like Alcantara Headliner and stuff like that is so weird. It should be like lined with plastic.

[Jill Simonello]

You know, I will say that I want to say the headliner is dark, which means that if you are putting muddy, dirty things in the vehicle, you're not going to show the dirt, the scuffs, the scrapes. Um, also, you know, I mean, just because you're driving off road doesn't mean you want, you don't want heated seats. You probably absolutely want heated seats, especially in Africa. Well, or cooled seats if. And, and by the way, the desert gets really flipping cold at night. So I, I mean I, I just think the versatility of the vehicle and some of the luxury upgrades aren't necessarily luxury features that they're luxury features that you want in those situations. Like, I, I remember many moons ago driving the Lexus GX and it had the cool box in, in, in the front, where you could turn your armrest cubby into a refrigerator, essentially. And people are like, why would you put that in a vehicle that's going to go off road? And I'm like, you're in a desert. Why wouldn't you want cold water?

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, you could just throw a cooler in the back too. The world has changed. And those original Camel trophy vehicles way, way, way back when were bare, bare bones. Yeah, they were, they were rough. So you drove, was this independent of this event you spent. It was okay. You drove the Range Rover. I have it here. The Range Rover SE, short wheelbase, P3,530. That's so much name.

[Jill Simonello]

I know. It really is. I drove, I drove the Range Rover that. Let's just say I drove the Land Rover. Range Rover. Yeah. And so it was really funny because I came home from the Defender Trophy and the vehicle waiting for me was the Land Rover. Range Rover. And I was like, how very apropos.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, we should identify that vehicle. That when we say Range Rover, this is the car.

[Jill Simonello]

This, this is the Range Rover. Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

Extremely confusing lineup there is made up of different vehicles, including Range Rover, Range Rover Sport, Range Rover Velar, Range Rover Evoke. But it's. The Range Rover is the top of the line. No Suffolks, that's your car.

[Jill Simonello]

Well, and I had an interesting conversation with the Land Rover, the JLR folks, while I was on the Defender Trophy trip. And they were saying, and I'm not sure I completely buy into this, but they said that Range Rover is a brand like Buick is a brand, that Defender is a brand, like Chevrolet is a brand, that Discovery is a brand, like Oldsmobile was a brand. And I was just like, interesting. So they're saying that like you have Land Rover as the apparent company, but then you have the Range Rover Velar, the Range Rover Evoque, the Range Rover, you know, you have the Discovery, the Discovery Sport, you have the defender 110, the defender. And I thought that was an interesting way to look at it as Range Rover, Defender and Discovery being the brands within themselves and then of the other things falling underneath. But I don't know that I would equate like Range Rover to like a Buick.

[Tom Appel]

It kind of works. Especially because the Discovery vehicles are so much more affordable than the Range Rover products also. They look great, actually. Yeah, it doesn't feel like you're taking a big hit in luxury. But, but the Range Rover products, very expensive and the Discovery are more affordable. And then obviously the, the Defender are your serious off roaders. Yeah, but all of these vehicles are very capable off road.

[Jill Simonello]

All of them are very, very capable. And so, yeah, back to the vehicle that I actually drove. So this was equipped with a 4.4 liter turbocharged eight cylinder engine, 523 horsepower, 553 pound feet of torque. It was so smooth, so fast, so fun to drive. I drove this, as I usually do, down to Indianapolis and back, and I was so comfortable for the entire drive. And even though, I mean, this is a big vehicle, this is, this is a very, very large vehicle. It felt small, it drove small. It was definitely more on the nimble side of things. And I mean, I live in the city of Chicago. I park in off of an alley in a garage. And you have to do a lot of tight maneuvering in the city. And I have to do a lot of tight maneuvering specifically to get into my parking space. And I thought I was going to have problems with the Range Rover, but I did not. And part of that is because it is a little bit, it feels like a little bit narrower than some of the wider, large SUVs. But the turning radius and everything on this just made it feel so sharp and so nimble. And I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Tom Appel]

All right, hit us with the bad news.

[Jill Simonello]

You know, I didn't have a lot of bad news. It was funny because I was, I'm

[Tom Appel]

talking about the price.

[Jill Simonello]

Oh, yeah, okay. That is certainly a little bit bad news. The, the price is $155,000. That's the as tested price of this vehicle. $155,000. It was 135,000 is like the base price for this vehicle. But it, it did, you know, it, it. And it's funny because in my video I was just like, are you gonna spend $155,000? But I kind of likened it to, you know, you're buying not only the massaging seats and the, you know, high horsepower engine and the smooth and supple interior amenities, you're also buying the brand name. It's kind of like buying a, like a Louis Vuitton purse instead of buying a Kate Spade. So, you know, you're, you're buying all the luxury amenities, but you're also buying the brand name when you're, when you're spending this money. And the only thing I think I really found on this vehicle that I did not like was the way the windshield washer fluid is dispersed. It comes through the windshield wipers themselves. And if you're driving 70 miles an hour on the highway and you're trying to get this liquid on your windshield to get rid of the bug guts you're invariably going to get between Indianapolis and Chicago. It doesn't work very well because you spray out of the windshield, you know, wipers, and then it just literally flies off the side of the vehicle and there's no fluid really left on, on the windshield in order to be able to get the bug guts off. And that, that was my, that was my primary complaint.

[Tom Appel]

I usually like. I can't believe we're talking about wiper blades here, but I usually like that when the, when the fluid comes out of the wiper arms themselves, usually that's heated as well, which makes that great for winter.

[Jill Simonello]

But if you're stopped, it's great. But if you're going 70 miles an hour, not so great.

[Tom Appel]

All right, so that vehicle you drove, a 2025?

[Jill Simonello]

I did.

[Tom Appel]

Interesting. It's not changed much for 2026. The big deal here. This is really interesting, but we're out of time. These V8s are now BMW engines.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

They're sourced by BMW. The old 5 liter V8 no longer available in anything. Range Rover. It is available in stuff called Land Rover Discovery products. But interesting that they made that move.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, well, I mean, everybody's trying to work together and find a way to get along in. In 2026. 2025 is the case.

[Tom Appel]

BMW's 4.4 liter V8 is one of the most flexible things in the world. It's been around now for what, 25 years? And they keep, they keep modifying it in different states of tune. And it's wonderful and everything it goes in. All right, so that car obviously been around for a while. It's available now any place. All right, and then when's your review of that going to appear?

[Jill Simonello]

Soon. I'm a little bit behind with all the travel I've been doing.

[Tom Appel]

I'll write that down soon.

[Jill Simonello]

Soon.

[Tom Appel]

All right, we should take a break. When we come back, we talk to Simon Sproul of Caterham. I've been saying Caterham. Yep, it's Caterham.

[Jill Simonello]

Caterham.

[Tom Appel]

All right, stick around. Questions or comments?

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[Tom Appel]

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[Jill Simonello]

There's a fire inside

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[Jill Simonello]

Not a chance.

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[Carvana Customer]

I sold my car in Carvana last Night.

[Jill Simonello]

Well, that's cool.

[Carvana Customer]

No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer, down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.

[Jill Simonello]

So what's the problem?

[Carvana Customer]

That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes to smoothie. I'm waiting for the catch.

[Jill Simonello]

Maybe there's no catch.

[Carvana Customer]

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.

[Tom Appel]

Wow.

[Jill Simonello]

You need to relax.

[Carvana Customer]

I need a knock on wood. Do we have. What is this? Table wood?

[Jill Simonello]

I think it's laminate.

[Carvana Customer]

Okay. Yeah, that's good. That's close enough.

[Jill Simonello]

Car selling without a catch.

[Podcast Sponsor Announcer]

Sell your car today on Carvana.

[Jill Simonello]

Pick up.

[Podcast Sponsor Announcer]

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[Tom Appel]

has been connecting communities like yours for the last 45 years, providing the TV you love at a price you can trust. Watch live sports news and the latest movies, plus your favorite streaming apps all in one place. Switch to Dish today and lock in the lowest price in satellite TV starting at $89.99 a month with our two year price guarantee. Call 888-add-D Dish or visit Dish. Do. Foreign. Stuff Podcast. And we're back. This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast. I'm Tom Appel, publisher of Consumer Guide Automotive. Thanks for sticking around today, Jill. How you doing?

[Jill Simonello]

I am doing fine. For, like, the fourth time.

[Tom Appel]

You know what makes me sad?

[Jill Simonello]

What makes you sad?

[Tom Appel]

We're about to talk about one of the coolest cars you can buy on the planet. And there's no way I would ever fit in this car.

[Jill Simonello]

I would fit.

[Tom Appel]

You would? You would. And you actually have to arrange that.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay. We will have to talk to our guests about making that happen.

[Tom Appel]

All right. On the phone with us is Simon Sproul. He is with Caterham Caterham. How are you?

[Simon Sproul]

Yeah, yeah, Caterham Caterham. Caterham.

[Jill Simonello]

Roll over, roll over, roll off the tech. Cater him.

[Tom Appel]

Simon, how are you today?

[Simon Sproul]

I'm good, thank you. How are you, Tom?

[Tom Appel]

I am well. This is a brand that has fascinated me forever and I've been reading car magazines since the late 70s and every now and then one of these vehicle would show up in Car and Driver or Road and Track, especially those two magazines here in the States. And not enough good words could be written about these cars. They were just the, the most fundamentally basic, raw, delightful things to drive in the whole world. And you guys are still building these things. Tell us about the Caterham cars and, and what you guys do now.

[Simon Sproul]

Yeah, sure. So look, the stuff, I mean the story really starts with Lotus and, and with Colin Chapman, the founder of Lotus back in 1957 when he created the Lotus Seven. And you know, that can be said to be almost the, the big, you know, the prime example of his mantra of, of simplifying ad lightness. And still to this day you hear people at Lotus and others talking about this idea of adding lightness, which actually is a, is, is something that, that anyone who's making a sports car knows that weight is the enemy of, of everything.

[Tom Appel]

Sure.

[Simon Sproul]

So, so Colin, you know, produced lotus, produced the seven and produced that for what, just under 20 years. And in 1973 a company called Caterham came along and said we'd like to take the, the rights to make the car under license. And, and, and that was where Caterham was born. In fact, Effectively the Lotus 7 as it was finished its run then and really Caterham took over with the, with, with the Caterham Seven and that was 1973 in the UK and, and ever since then Caterham has, has made the 7, the Super 7 in various guises with various different powertrains and sold them to enthusiasts all across the world. I mean it's a, it's actually a global car, whether it's in Japan here in the United States or, or its homeland in the uk.

[Tom Appel]

Now who is buying these cars? They're, they're extremely low volume and, and I envy everyone who fits in one and owns one because they seem like just the most pure form of automotive joy. But who is your audience for this car?

[Simon Sproul]

You know, it, it varies because, and that, and that I think is the joy of, of Caterham. So you can say that there's, there's the, there's the, I wouldn't say hardcore, there's the, there's the person who's looking for that elemental driving experience. And as you know that today it's hard to get into a car that doesn't have some sort of assistance, right? Even you know, power steering, power, power assisted brakes, you know, abs, et cetera, et cetera. And Caterham is one of the last cars that you can buy that really is, you know, true elemental driving. So you've got the hardcore enthusiast I would say, or somebody who's looking for that very back to basic experience. And then from there you get owners who want to go racing. So Caterham has got a very successful one make and multi make series running in the uk. There's in, across Europe, it's in Japan, we have enthusiasts here in the United States who race them in various club meets around the country. And so there's the, there's the racing enthusiast and always the thing with the Caterham is that sure you can put it on a transporter and take it to the track, but actually a lot of people, particularly in, in the UK and Europe, they drive their car, good for them, road going car, they drive it to the track and then they put on their race suit and the crash helmet and they go racing and then they drive it home. And that's, that's kind of, that's kind of been the Caterham thing. You know, it's, it's usable on the road, it's, it's a lot of fun on the road but you'd argue it really comes alive on the, on the track. And you know there is, we were actually catering was at the Nurburgring for the 24 hour race this, this, just this last weekend, the big one where Max was, was, was driving and we launched a special edition Caterham Nurburgring to celebrate our participation in numerous races at the Nordschleife. So it's, you know, we're sort of a car that is, I wouldn't say happiest on the track but certainly the track is really where the car can come alive and people can exploit all its, all its capabilities. But you know, having driven them on the road as well, it's a lot of fun to drive on that favorite bit of windy road when it's quiet on a Sunday morning and you really just want to connect with the car on the road.

[Tom Appel]

So tell us about the car itself. It is tiny, it is extremely light and I believe you're using exclusively Ford engines these days.

[Simon Sproul]

Yes, so that's, that's correct. So, so, so in the United States we bring it in with the Ford 2 liter Duratech engine.

[Tom Appel]

Okay.

[Simon Sproul]

And it's available in various powertrain, various horsepower Formats but the car itself is about half a ton in in weight. So the power to weight ratio is, is equivalent to, to a supercar. And in fact the, the, the, the naming of the cars is, you know, we have the 420 for example which is, you know, relates to horsepower per ton. So it's, it's, it's everything is relating to, to power, to weight. We're very focused as a company on power to weight because again you go back to the origins of the car which is about lightness. So weight is, rate is incredibly important. But you'll be surprised about you know, the, the two, excuse me two chassis, a narrow bodied and a wider body chassis. And actually they're, they're pretty, they're pretty accommodating. The, the, you know you can pop pop the steering wheel off to help you get in. There's various types of roll cages that you can fit to the car whether you're going full racing or just, or just out on the road. And yeah, it's just, it's a lot of fun. Only, only manual transmission. Although when you get up to the, to the, to the higher model we, we do offer a, a sequential shift gearbox as well but they come in primarily with the, with the manual five speed transmission which is a Mazda transmission and a Ford Duratech 2 liter engine. Excuse me losing my voice there.

[Tom Appel]

So an American looking to purchase a Caterham, how do they do that?

[Simon Sproul]

We come in under the kit car regulations. So what you would do is we have seven dealers in the United States. So Irvine, California, Sonoma, California, Washington State, Colorado, Upstate New York, Daytona beach and Miami. I think I remember all seven of them. And you would go to your Caterham dealer and they would help you with bringing a car in and it comes in as either a effectively a box of bits that you can build yourself or it comes in as a chassis without a powertrain. So you bring in the chassis is imported as one piece and then the powertrain is imported separately under a separate invoice and then the dealer helps marry the two together. We work with Mount Tune in California as our engine provider and mount tuner have been, have worked on Ford engines, you know, throughout their entire existence. I can remember as an ex Ford guy working with Mount Tune back in the uk so Mount Tune are the engine provider for us and, and they'll supply the engine to, to you or to the dealer and then you either build it yourself or the dealer can help you build it. And then depending on which state you're in, there are different ways of getting it registered. But basically, sometimes Caterhams come in under a 1957 replica law. So, so it's homage.

[Tom Appel]

Oh, interesting.

[Simon Sproul]

Yeah. So some, sometimes it comes in as a 57 replica, which, which is what they are, or sometimes it will come in just under the kit car regulations. So in California, for example, SB100 is the, is the registration process for there. Other states have, have different, different rules and regulations, but the cars come in with bins and chassis numbers and, and you know, you work with your dealer to bring both the powertrain and the chassis in, bring them together and then take it down to DMV and other inspections and get it on the road.

[Tom Appel]

Wow. So what are we talking about? Oh, go ahead, Jill. I'm sorry, yeah.

[Jill Simonello]

So does, so does that mean then that they are completely street legal in terms of being able to like drive them on regular city streets, highways, that kind of thing? Or is there, are there certain restrictions on how you can drive it when you bring it into the United States?

[Simon Sproul]

No, no, absolutely not. No. You, you, you bring it in, you, you, you, you make it, it gets a, it gets a VIN number and then you take it to DMV and you get it registered under, as a kit car. Each state has different rules and regulations for how cars like that are, are, are registered. But no, every, I mean every catering that comes in is, is, is street legal and, and can be registered. Some people who only want to use it for racing will just bring it in and, and, and just track it and don't need to register it. But the majority of Caterhams that come into the United States obviously coming as kit cars and then ultimately assembled here by the, by the dealer and the owner, registered and then driven, driven on the road with a plate on it.

[Tom Appel]

All right, I've got two questions for you. The first one is there, there is zero weather protection, right? These are totally open air sports cars. And then secondly, what are we talking about price wise?

[Simon Sproul]

So no, you can, I mean there's tonneau covers and hoods so you know, don't forget it's, it's a British sports car. So we do have occasionally rain in the uk, as you might have heard.

[Tom Appel]

Occasionally.

[Simon Sproul]

I think, I think everybody, the UK sports car market is quite interesting in the country where it rains a lot. Actually convertible cars are very popular, but we do have weather protection and tonneau covers and hoods and so forth, so you can drive it in all weathers and there's wind side windows as well that you can fit. And so it Is it is a, an all season car and then price point wise we're typically in the 80 to $100,000 price range depending on the spec. I mean if you go onto the Caterham configurator you can play around and configure a car in almost unlimited different build combinations. But typically a Caterham today with import tariffs and duties and other and other factors going in will typically be somewhere between the 80 and $100,000 price range.

[Tom Appel]

And these are pretty darn rare. Right? How many do you guys typically sell in the US a year?

[Simon Sproul]

So we, we, we, we, we focus on, on the capacity of the, of the manufacturing plants. We've got a new factory which we opened a couple years ago in the UK that has a capacity of about 800 cars a year. I would say the United States has, we sell currently under 100 cars a year and it's market but that's something that we obviously want to change and part of you know the challenge that I've taken on with Caterham and, and how we're looking at building the brand is to obviously bring Caterham to more American consumers. I mean you talk, talk to me you know, asked me the question earlier about who's buying these cars. I, I, I think we see an evolution in the customer and certainly going forward we see this as a, an addition clearly an additional car in a multi car enthusiast garage and we would see a Caterham sit very comfortably alongside a 911 GT3RS or sure Ferrari or so forth. So we, we're really, if you think about you know, who's been buying Harley Davidsons, why are they buying Harley Davidson? It's not a, it's not the only thing you have in your garage. It's something that you would, you would take out when you want to enjoy a you know, a weekend blast up favorite road or, or to go on a track. So Caterham really fits in that multi car enthusiast garage. Not exclusively. We've got people that, that just have a Caterham and maybe one other more practical car but typically we think that Caterhams are going to go to multi car enthusiast households.

[Tom Appel]

Cool. If you are interested in purchasing a Caterham and you live in say Chicago so you're not near a dealer, how, how does one go about you?

[Simon Sproul]

You can inquire through [e-mail] and the inquiry will be routed through and depending on your zip code we, we route you to the, to the closest dealer and the dealer in Chicago would probably be testing my geography at pro B time. Machines in. In upstate New York.

[Tom Appel]

Okay. Well, Simon, thank you so much for your time today.

[Simon Sproul]

My pleasure. Thanks for having me on. Enjoyed talking about this wonderful little iconic British sports car.

[Tom Appel]

No, it's very cool. It's good. Glad to have this conversation. That was Simon Sproul with Caterham. We're going to take a break and when we come back, quiz time, wish time, questions or comments?

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Drop us a line at car [e-mail]

[Tom Appel]

that's car [e-mail]

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[Jill Simonello]

Well, that's cool.

[Carvana Customer]

No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer, down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.

[Jill Simonello]

So what's the problem?

[Carvana Customer]

That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes as smoothly. I'm waiting for the catch.

[Jill Simonello]

Maybe there's no catch.

[Carvana Customer]

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.

[Jill Simonello]

Wow. You need to relax.

[Carvana Customer]

I need to knock on wood. Do we have. What is this? Table wood?

[Jill Simonello]

I think it's laminate.

[Carvana Customer]

Okay.

[Simon Sproul]

Okay.

[Carvana Customer]

Yeah, that's good. That's close enough.

[Jill Simonello]

Car selling without a catch.

[Podcast Sponsor Announcer]

Sell your car today on car. Pickup fees may apply.

[Tom Appel]

Welcome back to the Car Stuff podcast. And we're back. This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast. I'm Tom Appel, publisher of Consumer Guide Automotive. Thank you for sticking around today, Jill.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

I need to lose about £100.

[Jill Simonello]

You need to lose me.

[Tom Appel]

I need to lose. Yeah, I want to drive one of these. It's like the most fundamentally pure thing.

[Jill Simonello]

Did you hear him say you can remove the steering wheel to get.

[Tom Appel]

That's how you get into a lot of racing cars.

[Jill Simonello]

So, I mean, maybe.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, maybe you don't.

[Jill Simonello]

Maybe you only need to lose 50.

[Tom Appel]

But we will post pictures of these cars because people need to see them. They are the most fundamentally basic things. They are go karts with, like, 100 or 200 horsepower engines. They're absurd.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

And they're cool. There's also great footage, too. The Auto Car guys. That's a British car magazine.

[Jill Simonello]

Yep.

[Tom Appel]

They have recent video of them flogging. Okay. Damn. And it's. It's very cool. All right. You're. You're involved in the socials.

[Jill Simonello]

I am involved in the socials. You. You would like me to talk about it? Well, you wouldn't like me to talk about it. No, but I'm going to. But I'm going to. So I am on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn threads, blue sky, all the things, as I like to say. You can find me at Jill Simonello. And I have the hashtag Cart a Jour. That is also the name of my YouTube channel, Car du Jour. And I post daily videos to both YouTube shorts and to TikTok. So to give you your daily dose of drive. So, yeah, that's me.

[Tom Appel]

If people care, I'm car guy Tom.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

X Twitter and bluesky.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

All right. There you go. It's quiz time. Jill, are you ready?

[Jill Simonello]

Am I ever ready?

[Tom Appel]

No.

[Jill Simonello]

No.

[Tom Appel]

Today's topic is very simple.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

It stays luxury, which sold better in the first quarter of 2026.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

Gonna give you two cars. You just have to tell me which stays which sold better. We're sticking with luxury this week.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay. And I will say you always try to trip me up here, and you give me an answer that I think is going to. Or you give me a question that I think is going to be obvious and it's not.

[Tom Appel]

Yes, that's sort of the plan.

[Jill Simonello]

Thanks. So I'll. I'll see what my instinct is, and I'll go with the opposite, I think is what I'm hearing you say.

[Tom Appel]

All right? Five questions, plus the bonus question. You need three for a victory. The bonus question, of course, always related to the topic of the day.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

All right. You ready? Number one bestseller in the Q1 of 2026. The Acura MDX or the Genesis GV80.

[Jill Simonello]

Ooh. Two very good vehicles.

[Tom Appel]

Yes, they are. Yes, they are. I have not driven an MDX in a very long time.

[Jill Simonello]

I. They refreshed it recently, and I was able. I was. I actually wrote about that for another publication, so I was there for the refresh. And, I mean, they've done nothing but improve it.

[Tom Appel]

These are both Mid sized crossovers.

[Jill Simonello]

So I would. My tendency is to say that the Acura. And the question is, which sold better? Right.

[Tom Appel]

Which sold better?

[Jill Simonello]

My tendency is to say that the Acura MDX sold better, which means it was probably the GV80. Now do you know if the GV80, is it just the. The SUV or if it's also including the coupe?

[Tom Appel]

It probably includes the coupe, but since it was Q1, there wouldn't have been very many of them.

[Jill Simonello]

Fair point. I'm going to say the MDX.

[Tom Appel]

Correct.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

All right, you're on the board. 10,928 to 6,376. Genocide genes.

[Jill Simonello]

That doesn't sound good.

[Tom Appel]

I don't know what the plural of Genesis is. Genesis. Yeah. All right, number two, are you ready? The BMW 5 Series or the Mercedes Benz E Class, Once the bread and butter of those lineups. Now they're kind of drifting slowly into obscurity.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, I don't imagine either one of them sold like hotcakes, man.

[Tom Appel]

They used to.

[Jill Simonello]

They did.

[Tom Appel]

But again, no one wants sedans.

[Jill Simonello]

That is fair. You know, along with. What was it? The Audi A5. 6. 6.

[Tom Appel]

A6 would have been the midsize sedan.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

That goes way Back to the 100. The Audi 100.

[Jill Simonello]

This is a total shot in the dark here. I'm gonna say the BMW 5 Series.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. By a fair amount. 5489. BMW is just 3628 of the Mercedes.

[Jill Simonello]

Wow.

[Tom Appel]

You have two points. You're in good shape. All right, number three, are you ready?

[Jill Simonello]

I am ready.

[Tom Appel]

Two. Two icons in their category. The Cadillac Escalade or the Lincoln Navigator. Which sold better in Q1? 2026.

[Jill Simonello]

So will the Escalade include the IQ?

[Tom Appel]

I don't know that. I think.

[Jill Simonello]

What are you. To me?

[Tom Appel]

I think not.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay. Oh, I really liked the Navigator. The refresh that they did.

[Tom Appel]

These are both really good vehicles.

[Jill Simonello]

They. They really are.

[Tom Appel]

They're silly. They're huge. They're silly. They're expensive and they're really comfortable and they're amazing.

[Jill Simonello]

I feel like Navigator is kind of underrated and I feel like people don't necessarily think about it as. As they think about, like, Cadillacs. So I'm actually going to say Cadillac Escalade sold better.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. By a lot. Lot.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

9063 Cadillacs, 4322 Navigators. You've already won.

[Jill Simonello]

Yay.

[Tom Appel]

All right, number four, which sold better in Q1? 2026? The best Buick Envision or the Lexus

[Jill Simonello]

NX H also both very underrated cars.

[Tom Appel]

I've only seen one envision ever. And for people who don't know, General Motors is still importing this sucker from China.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

And getting their asses kicked on every one of them, tariff wise.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. So I'm going to say not the envision.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. This one's even less close than any of the free previous ones. The Buick Envision 4485 in the first quarter. The Lexus NX. Dang. 13,219.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

I don't really think about that vehicle much. I always think about the Lexus rx, the mid sized car.

[Jill Simonello]

The NX is kind of in an interesting and awkward location, like in terms of the lineup because you know you've got the ux which is like really teeny tiny and I, I really thoroughly enjoy that one, especially from a city dweller perspective. But the NX is just like it's smaller than the rx, but it doesn't seem like it is significantly enough smaller.

[Tom Appel]

It's a vehicle I never think of. Yeah, I never think of that vehicle. All right, you've got four you could sweep. Finally, the Infiniti QX60. We just talked about that. That's Infiniti's three row mid size crossover. Or the Cadillac Mystique Cadillac's three row electric mid size crossover.

[Jill Simonello]

Oh. My. Versus QX60.

[Tom Appel]

I would like to drive a Vistic.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, same.

[Tom Appel]

Hello, Cadillac.

[Jill Simonello]

Same. I've driven Lyriq and Optic, but I haven't driven.

[Tom Appel]

I haven't driven the Optic. That's their new small car.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, I love the Optic. They did a nice job with that. Aside from the whole Carplay thing.

[Tom Appel]

I just read Car and Driver's review of the Vistick. It's very positive.

[Jill Simonello]

But it's electric versus QX60 being gas. But QX60 I don't think is a huge seller. I'm gonna, I'm gonna say QX60 sold better.

[Tom Appel]

It did 9400 and I think 75. I can't read my writing compared to just 1900 for the Vistic.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

The steak.

[Jill Simonello]

I don't know.

[Tom Appel]

All right, you're five for five. You need the bonus question. Luckily we're going to your favorite topic, which is pop music of the 80s.

[Jill Simonello]

Did the 80s have pop music? I thought that was more of a 90s spots thing.

[Tom Appel]

Did the 80s have pop music?

[Jill Simonello]

I see you're wearing a Ramones shirt today.

[Tom Appel]

I am. That's 70s, 80s, but yeah, I was

[Jill Simonello]

like, is that considered pop music?

[Tom Appel]

Well, I mean pop in the looser sense that they made the charts and things like that popular. Yeah. All right, what are the most influential bands of the 80s and 90s? The Talking Heads got their start at the famous CBGB nightclub in New York. In 2002, they were inducted into the hall of Fame, the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. That's, of course, the Talking Heads, one of my favorite bands. I need you to tell me which of the following is not a Talking Heads album.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

Are you ready?

[Jill Simonello]

My sisters could probably answer this. I will not be able to.

[Tom Appel]

I'm going to give you four albums. One of them is not. All right, A Talking Heads album. Are you ready? More songs about buildings and food, Naked, Exile on Main Street, Little Creatures. One of those is not.

[Jill Simonello]

The others are. And all of them sound weird.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, well, they are the Talking Heads.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay, go through those again.

[Tom Appel]

Sure. More songs about buildings and food, Naked, Exile on Main street and Little Creatures. And if Randy were here right now, he would be shaking his head.

[Jill Simonello]

I know, I know. He would probably try to be giving me a hint, too.

[Tom Appel]

Probably.

[Jill Simonello]

So you said naked, and then what was the third one?

[Tom Appel]

Naked was the third. No, the third one was Exile on Main street xl. Exile.

[Jill Simonello]

Exile, Yep.

[Tom Appel]

Exile on Main Street.

[Jill Simonello]

So all of them, except for naked have lots of words. Naked seems to be the aberration. So, I mean, just because I have no clue and it seems like the odd man out, I'm going with Naked.

[Tom Appel]

No, naked was their 1988 release. It was actually quite popular.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

Also, fans and critics kind of hated it because it was really just a David Byrne album, not really a Talking Heads album. So people kind of. Kind of push back against it. Little Creatures, 1985. More songs about buildings and food. 1978, Excel on Main Street. You're gonna catch crap about this legendary Rolling stones album from 1972.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, from before I was born. Not gonna know that one.

[Tom Appel]

Well, you should know it. No, I wanted to talk about something real quick.

[Jill Simonello]

So the quiz is over. You're done talking about the quiz.

[Tom Appel]

The quiz is over.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

I will sign this and mail it off to you.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay, so before we move on to the thing that you want to talk about, did you take my quiz from last week?

[Tom Appel]

Did I what?

[Jill Simonello]

Did you listen to my quiz from last week that I gave Sam?

[Tom Appel]

Oh, way too easy.

[Jill Simonello]

Well, I mean that again, that was my quiz. He did not want to take the ChatGPT quiz. Did you get the bonus question?

[Tom Appel]

What was the bonus question? I think I did.

[Jill Simonello]

The bonus question was what Was the profession of Doc something on the show?

[Tom Appel]

Oh, oh, oh. Doc Adams.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. Doc had actually been a doctor during the Civil War. Yeah. Because he joins the show, we're talking about Gunsmoke. And Doc, of course, is the doctor in Dodge City. And he's not a young man even when the show opens. He's an experienced surgeon.

[Jill Simonello]

But back then he was probably only like 30, and he probably just looked 80.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, yeah. That's the way that stuff worked. But, yeah, you had to go much harder on the Fiero questions for Sam.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. So. But you. So you did well. And you got the bonus question. Sam only did not get the bonus question.

[Tom Appel]

No, I'm gonna get Gunsmoke questions.

[Jill Simonello]

I know, I figured. I think you. You and Randy talked about Gunsmoke all the time. So that was the thing.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, the thing. So I started talking with Paul and we got distracted, but I had mentioned that our friend Bodhi over at Kilowatt had done a. Like a redo. He had excerpts and he did a summary of the Tesla earnings call.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

And I listened to that, and that was so much less painful than actually listening to a Tesla earnings call. So you can still listen to that because he's got that posted. But one of the interesting things that I got from listening to this and this was listening to Elon Musk himself is Elon's not interested in cars anymore.

[Jill Simonello]

Nope.

[Tom Appel]

And Tesla is not going to be interesting for us to watch anymore as car enthusiasts or auto runners. And he's got everything else he's working on, including. Are you following the EV semi thing a little bit?

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

Big over the road trucks while he's building them. They seem to be working. And Pepsi. PepsiCo has made a huge order for these things, so we're going to be hearing more about electric over the road semis moving forward. He's big into the Optimus humanoid robots, so that's going to happen. He's into energy storage now. He's always been into that. But if EV sales don't grow, you need to do something with some of your capacity. And Ford is doing this. Ford is starting to sell batteries for energy storage, but Tesla's been doing that for a while, so. And then obviously Tesla wants to build its own semiconductors.

[Jill Simonello]

Well, and the whole robotaxi thing, too.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. So there's a lot going on there. We need to talk about the Robo Taxi. Do you have them in it?

[Jill Simonello]

I think we've got like, maybe six of them.

[Tom Appel]

All right. The Robo taxi thing is kind of a Crock.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

And here's why. Tesla is still having a hard time getting its driverless cabs on the road. And they only have a handful and they're all in Austin, but there is no market and there is no one out there to buy cars without steering wheels. You can't use them legally anyplace. So I don't know why they're building these. There's no place to put these yet. It's so weird. And we keep getting distracted by the fact that they seem to be making these autonomous cars, but they're not.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, I mean I, I will say this until I'm blue in the face. Other than Waymo right now, there are no self driving cars. There are no self driving cars that you can own. And I have people tell me every day that they want to buy a Tesla with full self driving so that when they're tired or they've had a couple of drinks at night that they can just let the car drive them home. And I was like, oh, oh no, no, no, no. That is not why you buy that car.

[Tom Appel]

When we have Bode on the show. I think that's coming up. Bodhi from Kilowatt. We should talk a little bit about this because fsd full self driving people paid a lot of money for these systems and they still don't work. No, people paid 8,000 to $15,000 in advance for this hardware. And that hardware may not be compatible with the software that is just sort of getting rolled out right now. So we will be hearing the terms class action coming. Because people paid for something they can't get.

[Jill Simonello]

Right. Well, you know, and I mean right now there is no infallible self driving system. I mean even Waymo has problems. I was watching a video the other day where, and I can't remember what location this was in, but there's a neighborhood somewhere where these waymos keep getting stuck. And they like there were like eight of them, like in a cul de sac, just stuck and not able to get out.

[Tom Appel]

There's a lot going on there. First of all, Waymo has been incredibly successful with its self driving vehicles.

[Simon Sproul]

Right.

[Tom Appel]

Very low incidence of accidents, very high rider satisfaction. They're generating revenue, charging for these rides. The system works. But that thing that happened was insane where 50 Waymo vehicles all descended on the same subdivision and just kept tooling around. A cul de sac.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

What the hell.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, I mean glitches still happen and I like would not, I am not personally trusting of a vehicle necessarily to let me fall asleep while I'M at the wheel to like get me home. Not.

[Tom Appel]

Not trusting that Waymo scene is what the end of the world will look like.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

It was so weird.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

You know what's funny about that too, and I know we're running out of time here, although you have a better sense of the time than I do, I think, was that Waymo keeps doing recalls. The funny thing about a Waymo recall is that they're voluntary. Right. So it's just Waymo working on its own cars. They own all the cars.

[Jill Simonello]

Right.

[Tom Appel]

So when they do a recall, it's just like they're calling them back to the shop, doing a software update and kicking them out. Now they are complying, I think, strictly with. With government laws. So that's good. It's a recall. It's out there. Everyone can see what it was and that's good. And they're doing that. But it is kind of silly on some level because of course they're going to respond to the recall. They're their cars.

[Jill Simonello]

Yep. Yeah. Well, you know, and Waymo is supposed to be coming to Chicago. I feel like soon Chicago is interesting

[Tom Appel]

because we have snow.

[Jill Simonello]

We do. And I don't know if it's just a fair weather only operation. I did download the Waymo app. I haven't looked recently since I've been back in Chicago to see if there's like any activity there. But I was in San Francisco recently, so I downloaded the Waymo app just in case.

[Tom Appel]

Cruise. Cruise Automation, which was General Motors autonomous division, when that still existed, they pulled that back into the company now. So it's not independent action, but they had cars in San Francisco and Waymo had cars in San Francisco. And while they don't have snow, they do have fog and a lot of rain and they'll seem to be working pretty well there. Yeah, but snow's the big one. That's. That's the big. The barrier for a lot of autonomous vehicles.

[Jill Simonello]

Yep.

[Tom Appel]

All right, Got anything else

[Jill Simonello]

coming up? I will be having some reviews of the Lexus es, the new sedan from Lexus, the all new next generation sedan.

[Tom Appel]

Is that embargoed?

[Jill Simonello]

It is until the 27th. So many questions, and I may or may not have answers for you.

[Tom Appel]

Is that launching is a 26 or a 27? It seems so late.

[Jill Simonello]

I think it's a. I would have to go back and check my notes to be sure, but I think it's a 26.

[Tom Appel]

That's weird.

[Jill Simonello]

But it's going to be electric and hybrid, so no gas, only option, and they have two electric versions and then one hybrid option.

[Tom Appel]

We talk about the fact that sedans are kind of on the way out, but the ES was always this great definition of what Lexus was. It was roomy and quiet and refined and really nice on the highway. Not a lot of fun to drive, but just supremely refined.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

And not crazy money.

[Jill Simonello]

No, no. So we won't be able to talk about this next week on the show, but we will be able to talk about it the following week. So a couple weeks come back and that will be the car that we review.

[Tom Appel]

Sounds good. All right. Guess what? We did.

[Jill Simonello]

We talked a lot and had a great show.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. Big thanks to Simon Sproul of Caterham. Caterham. You say it. All right.

[Jill Simonello]

Like Jaguar.

[Tom Appel]

Big thanks to producer Margot. Thank you, Jill. Let's talk more about cars again next week. Next week.

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[Tom Appel]

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